Author Topic: Able KONE  (Read 57829 times)

Offline Joe

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2010, 02:16:20 PM »
Peter,

  First off my questions are sincere- Let me know what the differences are from a swiss gold filter other than the metal composition.

But,

  Are you saying it costs even $25 to make that!!!? I definitely think there is a significant mark up. I'm sorry but I'm not buying the well developed website creds for his product. Let me know in 2 years if you are still using the "KONE" and how much it changed your life, maybe by then the manufacturing costs will be further along. But don't ask me to be the guinea pig, or to champion something that has already been invented at 3 times the price. Who am I? I am just one voice, I don't even like the much beloved Aeropress ($25) In fact I sold mine to Chad, just give me a pour over and a paper filter and I am happy.

As far as the Forthright part. OK 2 problems with all that for me:

1. First I read one of his replies to the fact that he doesn't want to make and sell thousands of his product....come on? really? so you make a website, talk about special coffee shops that use your special cone filter, etc.. But you don't want to sell them? Ohh yeah and our guy met him at .....a coffee fest in Seattle where the whole point is to "sell". Doesn't sound forth right

2. Next, he capitulates and says ok I will give you the coffee filters for this week only at the price that we were supposed to get them for anyways!? Of course with $11! Shipping bill tacked on.

My Original Swiss gold filter was a stainless version that was made for Starbucks Barista Aroma brewers it cost all of $10 it was probably made in China not Switzerland even though it says SWISS all over it.

Again if your finances can afford the newest coffee toy that costs $50(for a filter) and requires that you have a $35 coffee maker as well for a manual coffee maker, God Bless you. For me I'll stick to my Newco and Swiss Gold and maybe a pour over, or maybe I'll pick up an old Vacpot. Really there are just too many other ways to brew a good cup of coffee for me to be interested in this.

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Offline mp

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2010, 02:23:57 PM »
Even though you're making a lot of sense Joe ... coffee toy must haves are an addiction.  No reason will justify someone not spending money on a new coffee toy that they can claim to be the first on the block with.

As tex said ... I'll stick with my espresso with a cappuccino and drip thrown in here and there for good measure.

My 2 cents.

 :)
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Offline Joe

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2010, 02:25:14 PM »
Even though you're making a lot of sense Joe ... coffee toy must haves are an addiction.  No reason will justify someone not spending money on a new coffee toy that they can claim to be the first on the block with.

As tex said ... I'll stick with my espresso with a cappuccino and drip thrown in here and there for good measure.

My 2 cents.

 :)

That's Exactly what I am saying. Addicted to Oil and coffee Oil ;D
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Offline peter

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2010, 02:26:29 PM »
I don't care if it's the best pour over ever made - $50 is a lot to spend for something that's going to be at best, only marginally better than my $3 Melitta pour over. Of course, I think all of your pour over guys are nuts anyway - espresso is the only way to make real coffee! ;D

It all depends on how often a person uses a pourover, which paper filters they use, and what those filters cost.  A regular pourover user can spend $50 a year in paper.

Peter,

  First off my questions are sincere- Let me know what the differences are from a swiss gold filter other than the metal composition.

I am hoping along with you, that this question will be answered.

 Are you saying it costs even $25 to make that!!!? I definitely think there is a significant mark up. I'm sorry but I'm not buying the well developed website creds for his product. Let me know in 2 years if you are still using the "KONE" and how much it changed your life, maybe by then the manufacturing costs will be further along. But don't ask me to be the guinea pig, or to champion something that has already been invented at 3 times the price.

So tell us what your metal fabricating background is, and what experience you have that would lead you to believe it can be made for less than $25.

Nobody is asking you to be a guinea pig, or champion anything BTW.  I was only wondering why you seemed so opposed to it.

Really there are just too many other ways to brew a good cup of coffee for me to be interested in this.


We get that you're not interested.  But didn't understand why you were so ready to throw mud on the idea.  Now we know; you don't think it costs that much to make and think it's overpriced.  
Quote of the Day; \"...yet you refuse to come to Me that you

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2010, 02:30:25 PM »
Hey guys,

To me it is very interesting that the cost is still an issue even after I extended a promo code for you. I actually have spoken to multiple people who want me to RAISE my retail price. They think it is too low. Its because for me to even offer it wholesale then they would want to charge around $60 to get a good return. Let me explain in more detail for those who think its just bent metal.

It is stainless steel that is of high quality and sourced here in the USA, from OHIO to be exact. The hole pattern first had to be drawn by an engineer in CAD. The slope of the cone also had to be drawn. I guess this was not too difficult for the engineer but none the less had to be done. The hardest part of the engineering process was getting the outer shape correct to allow proper forming and welding. Now moving on to creating the holes. These are not just perforated holes punch out. The filters are photochemically etched. They are actually cone shaped also. This means the holes are smaller on the inside than that on the outside. I also have gone through 8 different hole patterns to find what I thought to be a good flow rate. Yes the amount of holes greatly changes the flow rate. This would be one note of how it is different than the gold filters out there already. Next is forming and welding. After the flat patterns are made they are sent to the welder. Here they had to custom make a forming tool to proper shape the filters to the exact radius that was speced out to fit properly in a chemex. The welds are laser welded. The cost to form and weld is just as much to have the flat patterns cut. So after all these hands to make the filter paying high USA labor the cost IMO is totally valid.

To answer more questions about this just being a stainless swiss gold. I hope it stands alone and is very clear that it is different. My main point is the shape. It is truly a perfect cone. I feel this changes the brewing dynamic. I also stand behind the hole pattern and feel it makes a great cup of coffee. As I have said before I made it simply for me to use. The only reason why the filter is now a true "product" is because people wanted it. I am just honored and so happy when people like the idea of it and best of all like the coffee it can produce.

For brewing tips:
We use 25 to 30 grams of coffee - probably a finer grind then you currently use for paper
Pour 100 grams of water for 15-20 seconds. let bloom rest until the 45-1:00 mark
Then pour an additional 300 grams of water and finish your pour at 1:45-2:15 for a total extraction of 2:30 - 3:30 minutes

I suggest using a chemex. It fits in all 6, 8 and 10 cup chemex makers. The small baby chemex that requires special filters has a completely different shape top. I designed the slope specifically for the 8 cup but we use the 6 cup in store FYI.

When using our guidelines it makes more then that needed for a cup of coffee. Be gentle a pour from your chemex into your cup right away. Leave the remaining 2 ounces or so. The drip time and natural shape of the chemex has no held back most of any sediment/particles that the filter has allowed through.

I hope this clears more things up and answers more questions.

Best regards,
Keith

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2010, 02:42:02 PM »
Peter,

  First off my questions are sincere- Let me know what the differences are from a swiss gold filter other than the metal composition.

But,

  Are you saying it costs even $25 to make that!!!? I definitely think there is a significant mark up. I'm sorry but I'm not buying the well developed website creds for his product. Let me know in 2 years if you are still using the "KONE" and how much it changed your life, maybe by then the manufacturing costs will be further along. But don't ask me to be the guinea pig, or to champion something that has already been invented at 3 times the price. Who am I? I am just one voice, I don't even like the much beloved Aeropress ($25) In fact I sold mine to Chad, just give me a pour over and a paper filter and I am happy.

As far as the Forthright part. OK 2 problems with all that for me:

1. First I read one of his replies to the fact that he doesn't want to make and sell thousands of his product....come on? really? so you make a website, talk about special coffee shops that use your special cone filter, etc.. But you don't want to sell them? Ohh yeah and our guy met him at .....a coffee fest in Seattle where the whole point is to "sell". Doesn't sound forth right

2. Next, he capitulates and says ok I will give you the coffee filters for this week only at the price that we were supposed to get them for anyways!? Of course with $11! Shipping bill tacked on.

My Original Swiss gold filter was a stainless version that was made for Starbucks Barista Aroma brewers it cost all of $10 it was probably made in China not Switzerland even though it says SWISS all over it.

Again if your finances can afford the newest coffee toy that costs $50(for a filter) and requires that you have a $35 coffee maker as well for a manual coffee maker, God Bless you. For me I'll stick to my Newco and Swiss Gold and maybe a pour over, or maybe I'll pick up an old Vacpot. Really there are just too many other ways to brew a good cup of coffee for me to be interested in this.



Joe,

To address your concerns on who I am as a person. I am sorry you feel this way towards me. Have we met? I would love to and I think you might realize a few things about me and possibly your judge of character in people. I think you might have to think twice about that old saying don't judge a book by its cover.

YES it does cost $25 dollars to make!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are exactly right. I told you it is made in the USA! Ok settles that one hopefully. Now you ll know how much its cost me. Hopefully I am now being as transparent as possible which most "companies" would NEVER do. But I am just a 26 year old who LOVES coffee. I am not trying to scam you in any way. I just made something I thought was a good idea and wanted to experiment with.

Ok now for selling thousands. It is true. I don't want to sell thousands. I would very much love to pay back all the money I have invested into it. OK more transparency. $20,000 dollars is into this project. One prototype I made cost me 1,200 alone due to the extensive engineering for the hole pattern. Maybe I got scammed there? You tell me.

Selling them. I made them because some coffee bars we interested in using them and possibly selling them also. I thought it be an ok idea. So I had 1,000 filters made. Taking all risk, no banks and no loans all risk on me. Sorry for feeling upset but I do now at this point.

Why at coffee fest? Edwin is a good friend of mine. I was a roaster at Victrola and roasted his finca vista hermosa. I was asked by him to participate. It was supposed to be fun and release the kone officially. I honestly have no idea the direction of this project. If people love it but dont want to support it for the cost then it will honestly die. Why die? Because I cant afford $25,000 to produce filters that you claim to be too expensive and of no merit.

Shipping. I JUST launched the site. My company is so small. We ship nothing. They haven't given me any discounts yet. I apologize if you think shipping is too high. This seems to be a consistent complaint with people buying things online. I will work on better shipping rates as soon as I can.


Again I am sorry if I come across as upset. I feel personally offended here. Its something I made for fun and for the love of coffee.

Please remember that.

Best,
Keith
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 02:44:54 PM by Coava Roasters »

Offline Joe

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2010, 02:45:59 PM »
So tell us what your metal fabricating background is, and what experience you have that would lead you to believe it can be made for less than $25.
Don't be silly Peter, anyone can look at anything else comparable and compare costs. Plus this guy isn't LAZER welding them in his garage.


Nobody is asking you to be a guinea pig, or champion anything BTW.  I was only wondering why you seemed so opposed to it.

No but it was billed as a group buy which later turned into a group discount. At $50+ you're a guinea pig.


We get that you're not interested.  But didn't understand why you were so ready to throw mud on the idea.  Now we know; you don't think it costs that much to make and think it's overpriced.  

Basically, But it's more complicated. I don't give a crap how much it costs...remember I said "I don't care if it's made by monks in Mt. Everest" It comes down to realistic expectations for something, I see a lot of promotion for this going on trying to pump sales and at not enough of a discount. So I feel as if its within my rights to say a lot of this doesn't make sense.
1. It looks like a swiss gold filter made of stainless steel, except it has a sharp point and no plastic at all.
2. I'm not trying to throw mud on it, I am basically saying- Slow down everyone, this is not only the deal we thought we were getting but it might not even be a deal at all. Wholesale was supposed to be $30 it's now $50. Worse off it might just be a swiss gold filter for a chemex.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2010, 03:03:00 PM »

Joe,

To address your concerns on who I am as a person. I am sorry you feel this way towards me. Have we met? I would love to and I think you might realize a few things about me and possibly your judge of character in people. I think you might have to think twice about that old saying don't judge a book by its cover.

YES it does cost $25 dollars to make!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are exactly right. I told you it is made in the USA! Ok settles that one hopefully. Now you ll know how much its cost me. Hopefully I am now being as transparent as possible which most "companies" would NEVER do. But I am just a 26 year old who LOVES coffee. I am not trying to scam you in any way. I just made something I thought was a good idea and wanted to experiment with.

Ok now for selling thousands. It is true. I don't want to sell thousands. I would very much love to pay back all the money I have invested into it. OK more transparency. $20,000 dollars is into this project. One prototype I made cost me 1,200 alone due to the extensive engineering for the hole pattern. Maybe I got scammed there? You tell me.

Selling them. I made them because some coffee bars we interested in using them and possibly selling them also. I thought it be an ok idea. So I had 1,000 filters made. Taking all risk, no banks and no loans all risk on me. Sorry for feeling upset but I do now at this point.

Why at coffee fest? Edwin is a good friend of mine. I was a roaster at Victrola and roasted his finca vista hermosa. I was asked by him to participate. It was supposed to be fun and release the kone officially. I honestly have no idea the direction of this project. If people love it but dont want to support it for the cost then it will honestly die. Why die? Because I cant afford $25,000 to produce filters that you claim to be too expensive and of no merit.

Shipping. I JUST launched the site. My company is so small. We ship nothing. They haven't given me any discounts yet. I apologize if you think shipping is too high. This seems to be a consistent complaint with people buying things online. I will work on better shipping rates as soon as I can.


Again I am sorry if I come across as upset. I feel personally offended here. Its something I made for fun and for the love of coffee.

Please remember that.

Best,
Keith

Keith,

You made a product, you are trying to sell a product. I believe you have invested $20k on something that you wanted to do as a hobby? Perhaps costs became more than you anticipated, but lets be real if this takes off, that's more in line with what you had in mind.

 I am not trying to be offensive we are a community of people who most have known for quite a long time, when you're in you're in but there is a little distrust from me when someone joins and is mainly here to sell something. It's distrust and you have to know that. I get that your company is small, that you're young, and that you have a lot of money riding on the success of the K-Cone. Again I am not trying to offend but I am trying to get as you call it "transparency".
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Tex

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2010, 03:07:00 PM »
snipped

Its something I made for fun and for the love of coffee.

Please remember that.

Best,
Keith

No good deed goes unpunished Keith. We're spoiled; we get great coffee on the cheap, we get group prices on cool coffee gear, and we buy and sell among ourselves at near-cost. $50 isn't too much for a great pour over filter, unless you think pour over is overrated in the first place. But for what it says it can do, it's not a bad price.

Now I'm wondering if you're going to transfer the technology to espresso machines, which is where real coffee is made? 8)

Coava Roasters

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2010, 03:14:45 PM »

Joe,

To address your concerns on who I am as a person. I am sorry you feel this way towards me. Have we met? I would love to and I think you might realize a few things about me and possibly your judge of character in people. I think you might have to think twice about that old saying don't judge a book by its cover.

YES it does cost $25 dollars to make!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are exactly right. I told you it is made in the USA! Ok settles that one hopefully. Now you ll know how much its cost me. Hopefully I am now being as transparent as possible which most "companies" would NEVER do. But I am just a 26 year old who LOVES coffee. I am not trying to scam you in any way. I just made something I thought was a good idea and wanted to experiment with.

Ok now for selling thousands. It is true. I don't want to sell thousands. I would very much love to pay back all the money I have invested into it. OK more transparency. $20,000 dollars is into this project. One prototype I made cost me 1,200 alone due to the extensive engineering for the hole pattern. Maybe I got scammed there? You tell me.

Selling them. I made them because some coffee bars we interested in using them and possibly selling them also. I thought it be an ok idea. So I had 1,000 filters made. Taking all risk, no banks and no loans all risk on me. Sorry for feeling upset but I do now at this point.

Why at coffee fest? Edwin is a good friend of mine. I was a roaster at Victrola and roasted his finca vista hermosa. I was asked by him to participate. It was supposed to be fun and release the kone officially. I honestly have no idea the direction of this project. If people love it but dont want to support it for the cost then it will honestly die. Why die? Because I cant afford $25,000 to produce filters that you claim to be too expensive and of no merit.

Shipping. I JUST launched the site. My company is so small. We ship nothing. They haven't given me any discounts yet. I apologize if you think shipping is too high. This seems to be a consistent complaint with people buying things online. I will work on better shipping rates as soon as I can.


Again I am sorry if I come across as upset. I feel personally offended here. Its something I made for fun and for the love of coffee.

Please remember that.

Best,
Keith

Keith,

You made a product, you are trying to sell a product. I believe you have invested $20k on something that you wanted to do as a hobby? Perhaps costs became more than you anticipated, but lets be real if this takes off, that's more in line with what you had in mind.

 I am not trying to be offensive we are a community of people who most have known for quite a long time, when you're in you're in but there is a little distrust from me when someone joins and is mainly here to sell something. It's distrust and you have to know that. I get that your company is small, that you're young, and that you have a lot of money riding on the success of the K-Cone. Again I am not trying to offend but I am trying to get as you call it "transparency".
Joe,

I joined earlier this year when Coava was getting started because we were looking for green. Not to sell. I only posted because I felt my voice was needed as I said in my very first post regarding the filter.

I never intended to sell the filters. NEVER. Honestly! Ask anyone.

The ones we use at Coava cost us 45 dollars each to make. Yup!

So we never thought it was able to be produced at any lower amount and could never be a product to sell. Well because of some coffee business who should interest,... they approached me not me to them because I never thought I could sell it. Then I called the people who made the small run and asked what if I made 1000. Price lowered enough. I offered it to coffee bars at only a small few dollar mark up and now they can either use it in their shop or resell it. The $50 price tag is to allow the coffee bar owner to resell it and make money on their investment if they wish. My goal was to always be at the $40 mark. This is only possible if only I am selling them. Well this might ended up being the case if too many people see it not being worth $50.

Please do not tell me or on a forum in front of your audience that I made this to make money. That is rude and offensive to me.

I started my coffee roasting business to roast coffee and make coffee because I love it. Did I make it to make money. Well I guess that comes with a business Joe.

The cone project was simply just an experiment that started with me and the help of my friend. And for some odd reason I like it and others do as well. We are coffee nerds.

This crazy thread was my greatest fear of releasing this as a "product". I cant believe people out there like you exist and feel it ok to post things as you have about me. I once again challenge you to meet me before posting anything else negative about me.

My email is keith@coavacoffee.com . I will give you my cell and we can have a heart to heart if you like. If you do not call I find it not acceptable to post your personal opinion about me as a person and my motives.

Once again thanks for everyone time and support. Without you this would not be possible.

Keith

Offline Ascholten

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2010, 03:19:13 PM »
Let me add a few thoughts here.

A swiss gold can be made to drop as fast, or as slow as one wants by changing the coarseness of the grind.  This one is a funnel, the swiss gold, a bit... flatter of a funnel.  Being stainless, I would think this one might be a bit more durable than a SG, because the gauge of the metal appears thicker.

It might not be much different than a swiss gold but it 'is' something different.   How many people shoveled out a few hundred bucks for an RK drum when they were making them?  All that is is some steel welded into a tube shape with ends on it, not very sophisticated.  you even had to provide your own motor to turn the thing, and barbecue to roast in.  Not too many people complained, it was something people wanted and they were willing to pay for it, because they didn't want to hastle trying to do it themselves.  If people want it, let them be happy with it.  If they think it's too much buck for the bang, then they need not get it.  

On his costs.  Maybe if he had 10,000 of them made or 100k the price would have been significantly cheaper.  See in his case, as in any business, the original machining and tooling is a killer.   We are going to charge you X thousands of dollars to design the thing,  X to program it for our CNC laser cutter.  then X per unit for the metal and X per unit to cut it.  now add packaging shipping handling and all that crap, it adds up.  now lets throw in the custom die to form it, that had to be tooled.  Some of that $hit can cost thousands for someone to make a die for you. Given he's playing with stainless, ie a hard metal, the die is probably a hybrid carbide or some other exotic metal to hold up over time.  not to mention use of the press to run it and then finally welding it, burnishing it, cleaning it, maybe etching it.

Now lets do this in america, where minimum wage is 7 bucks an hour,  in a skilled area, like a machine shop, you are probably paying closer to 25 an hour.  versus china where they are making maybe 50 cents an hour.

Now lets add a store front, all the licenses and the stuff to start a new business.  ANY of you who have opened your own coffee shops should know plenty well the kind of crap I am talking about.  He has to pay that off, like it or not.  Any business, no matter what it is, to be sucessful, absolutely HAS to pass it's costs onto the customer.

Give him a year or two, if the thing catches on and he's selling a buttload of them, THEN he will have bargaining power to say Hey!!  you are charging me x for these, i am moving 1000 a month / week / whatever the number may be.  How about a volume discount here... or start shopping other places, because now he can honestly tell them.  I will need X a month and they have a solid number to work.  At that point I bet he can lower his prices a bit.

People pay 5 bucks for a cup of crap from starbucks... is it worth it... no, but they still pay it.  Unlike starbucks, This item looks like something that might actually be useful for something besides taking paint off your car or removing love bug guts from your windshield.

You act like his markup is insane, you have NO idea the markup in the 'retail' arena.   Those watch batteries you pay $3.99 for.  The store gets them for about 20 cents each.   That phone battery radio shack sells for $59.99, cost them about 8 dollars.  It seems obscene but when you look at all the places the money has to be paid back out to... they are not making that much of a profit overall per item.

just my two pennies... or perhaps I should use steel washers.

Aaron
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake!

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2010, 03:20:59 PM »
snipped

Its something I made for fun and for the love of coffee.

Please remember that.

Best,
Keith

No good deed goes unpunished Keith. We're spoiled; we get great coffee on the cheap, we get group prices on cool coffee gear, and we buy and sell among ourselves at near-cost. $50 isn't too much for a great pour over filter, unless you think pour over is overrated in the first place. But for what it says it can do, it's not a bad price.

Now I'm wondering if you're going to transfer the technology to espresso machines, which is where real coffee is made? 8)


Tex,

Thanks.

I love coffee made by the cup personally. I also love espresso and drink coffee both ways everyday.

We only offer pour over at our shop for $2 a cup. This is because I want people to be able to enjoy great coffee everyday. I don't feel the customer is willing to spend $4 - $5 everyday for a coffee yet. My customers here love our their coffee made everyday using our filter and by the pour over method.

Espresso: We love espresso also.
We offer two single origins every day. Ok I'll bite this before it starts. Are we trendy? No we just love the simplicity of not doing a blend and not having to deal with the burden of a blend. Burden...??? Well cost and also peoples expectations. Its easier for use to change things up all the time because we only do singles rather than explain an ever changing blend.

My business partner, best friend and best man in my wedding loves his coffee made as espresso first. So we balance each other out.

Look for espresso parts to release some cool knew espresso gear very soon. Its right up the ally your are speaking of. ;).

Oh man do I for some stupid reason feel punished but I'll get over it. Thanks again.

Best,
Keith

Coava Roasters

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2010, 03:24:53 PM »
Let me add a few thoughts here.

A swiss gold can be made to drop as fast, or as slow as one wants by changing the coarseness of the grind.  This one is a funnel, the swiss gold, a bit... flatter of a funnel.  Being stainless, I would think this one might be a bit more durable than a SG, because the gauge of the metal appears thicker.

It might not be much different than a swiss gold but it 'is' something different.   How many people shoveled out a few hundred bucks for an RK drum when they were making them?  All that is is some steel welded into a tube shape with ends on it, not very sophisticated.  you even had to provide your own motor to turn the thing, and barbecue to roast in.  Not too many people complained, it was something people wanted and they were willing to pay for it, because they didn't want to hastle trying to do it themselves.  If people want it, let them be happy with it.  If they think it's too much buck for the bang, then they need not get it.  

On his costs.  Maybe if he had 10,000 of them made or 100k the price would have been significantly cheaper.  See in his case, as in any business, the original machining and tooling is a killer.   We are going to charge you X thousands of dollars to design the thing,  X to program it for our CNC laser cutter.  then X per unit for the metal and X per unit to cut it.  now add packaging shipping handling and all that crap, it adds up.  now lets throw in the custom die to form it, that had to be tooled.  Some of that $hit can cost thousands for someone to make a die for you. Given he's playing with stainless, ie a hard metal, the die is probably a hybrid carbide or some other exotic metal to hold up over time.  not to mention use of the press to run it and then finally welding it, burnishing it, cleaning it, maybe etching it.

Now lets do this in america, where minimum wage is 7 bucks an hour,  in a skilled area, like a machine shop, you are probably paying closer to 25 an hour.  versus china where they are making maybe 50 cents an hour.

Now lets add a store front, all the licenses and the stuff to start a new business.  ANY of you who have opened your own coffee shops should know plenty well the kind of crap I am talking about.  He has to pay that off, like it or not.  Any business, no matter what it is, to be sucessful, absolutely HAS to pass it's costs onto the customer.

Give him a year or two, if the thing catches on and he's selling a buttload of them, THEN he will have bargaining power to say Hey!!  you are charging me x for these, i am moving 1000 a month / week / whatever the number may be.  How about a volume discount here... or start shopping other places, because now he can honestly tell them.  I will need X a month and they have a solid number to work.  At that point I bet he can lower his prices a bit.

People pay 5 bucks for a cup of crap from starbucks... is it worth it... no, but they still pay it.  Unlike starbucks, This item looks like something that might actually be useful for something besides taking paint off your car or removing love bug guts from your windshield.

You act like his markup is insane, you have NO idea the markup in the 'retail' arena.   Those watch batteries you pay $3.99 for.  The store gets them for about 20 cents each.   That phone battery radio shack sells for $59.99, cost them about 8 dollars.  It seems obscene but when you look at all the places the money has to be paid back out to... they are not making that much of a profit overall per item.

just my two pennies... or perhaps I should use steel washers.

Aaron


THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!!!!

-Keith

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2010, 03:35:38 PM »
Keith,

How do you think the Kone will work, apart from a Chemex?  Will it fit in a Hario V60?

I fashioned a wire holder for a Swiss Gold K4, and figure as long as the Kone is supported at the top and is kept level, it should be fine.  Right?
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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2010, 03:38:02 PM »
Keith,

How do you think the Kone will work, apart from a Chemex?  Will it fit in a Hario V60?

I fashioned a wire holder for a Swiss Gold K4, and figure as long as the Kone is supported at the top and is kept level, it should be fine.  Right?

Fits Hario well.

As long as its supported from top and level you are right. Is designed to be a "floating" filter. Meaning the coffee can "bleed" from all the holes.

-Keith