Author Topic: Meet Gort!  (Read 30802 times)

Offline MGLloyd

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #75 on: April 25, 2012, 07:16:19 AM »
Eric, I do liability for a living, although it is medical malpractice defense, not product liability.  I did do medical product liability earlier in my career.  Not knowing any of the specifics that Joe is referring to, but I certainly can appreciate his point about designing and manufacturing products that have the ability to burn down your house or injure the user if misused.  It is the sort of thing that gives insurance companies the vapors. 

I am often reminded of something my Dad used to say.  Dad was an aeronautical engineer at Boeing for 40 years and worked on commercial, government and military projects.  He was fond of saying 'Just when you make something idiot-proof, they come out with a better grade of idiot'. 
___________________

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Michael Lloyd
Arlington, Washington  USA

EricBNC

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #76 on: April 25, 2012, 07:26:27 AM »
If no one was adding roasting controls I could give a pass here - Hottop, Gene Cafe, and Freshroast don't fear the dial adjustment and those that manufacture the roasters listed walk in your shoes every day.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 07:29:12 AM by EricBNC »

Offline tahoejoe

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #77 on: April 25, 2012, 07:29:52 AM »
Erci..

I don't think you grasp what I'm saying..it's called grandfathering.. we can do that as the others have or they got in before changes were made to the rules.

It's when it's a new program/ item, rules can change, they are applicable..and if you would stop for a second and read what I'm saying.. They have changed.

Ask yourself why do I know this and these things?

« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 07:36:40 AM by tahoejoe »

Offline John F

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #78 on: April 25, 2012, 07:40:07 AM »
Funniest thing I've ever seen Tahoe post.  ;D
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Offline tahoejoe

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #79 on: April 25, 2012, 07:47:12 AM »
Funniest thing I've ever seen Tahoe post.  ;D

Just think what I'm like when I'm angry  ;)

EricBNC

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #80 on: April 25, 2012, 07:55:52 AM »
Erci..

I don't think you grasp what I'm saying..it's called grandfathering.. we can do that as the others have or they got in before changes were made to the rules.

It's when it's a new program/ item, rules can change, they are applicable..and if you would stop for a second and read what I'm saying.. They have changed.

Ask yourself why do I know this and these things?
So it wasn't worth your time to try and solve the problem within the current standards, OK, I get it...

Offline peter

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2012, 08:05:13 AM »
Erci..

I don't think you grasp what I'm saying..it's called grandfathering.. we can do that as the others have or they got in before changes were made to the rules.

It's when it's a new program/ item, rules can change, they are applicable..and if you would stop for a second and read what I'm saying.. They have changed.

Ask yourself why do I know this and these things?
So it wasn't worth your time to try and solve the problem within the current standards, OK, I get it...

I don't think you get it.
Quote of the Day; \"...yet you refuse to come to Me that you

EricBNC

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2012, 08:10:12 AM »
I don't think you get it.

Help me out then - either a problem is worth solving or it is not. Choices were made and the new upgraded roaster is the same as the original roaster, except now there is a coffee pot sitting next to it.

I am not alone in visualizing the possibilities trapped inside the 1600, but this is not the thread where we should have that discussion - plenty are already around for that.

Offline MMW

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2012, 08:24:17 AM »
I don't think you get it.

Help me out then - either a problem is worth solving or it is not. Choices were made and the new upgraded roaster is the same as the original roaster, except now there is a coffee pot sitting next to it.

I am not alone in visualizing the possibilities trapped inside the 1600, but this is not the thread where we should have that discussion - plenty are already around for that.

I'd wager that those issues are solvable within the current regulatory/insurance requirements but probably not at a $300 price point...
"During the early 19th century, most Americans subsisted on a diet of pork, whiskey, and coffee.  ----- Where did we go wrong?

Offline peter

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2012, 08:36:52 AM »
I don't think you get it.

Help me out then - either a problem is worth solving or it is not. Choices were made and the new upgraded roaster is the same as the original roaster, except now there is a coffee pot sitting next to it.

I am not alone in visualizing the possibilities trapped inside the 1600, but this is not the thread where we should have that discussion - plenty are already around for that.

I'd wager that those issues are solvable within the current regulatory/insurance requirements but probably not at a $300 price point...

That's one thing that came to mind. 

It's not my part to enlighten you Eric.  Joe has shed some light on it, and no doubt he has more obstacles he hasn't brought up.  My guess is there isn't anyone who would want the Behmor to do all us geeks want it to do more than Joe, and I'd bet my bottom dollar if it was feasible it would be done, since it would lead to selling more machines.  The fact that the Behmor isn't all you and I would want it to be, tells me there's more to the story than you and I know.  But your words make it sound as if you know something Joe doesn't.  The Behmor is what it is; if it stays that way, don't assume Joe Behm is uncaring or not listening or lazy, but that he might just have legitimate reasons.
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blzrfn

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2012, 08:52:12 AM »
I think it is healthy to accept criticism of a product but unhealthy when the critique gets away from being just direct feedback.  Sure Joe could do lots of things with the Behmor, but it is what it is and I'm sure he is making a decent living building and selling them.  Is it for everybody?  Its not for me, and I say this having never used one or seen one operate.  I made my decision to not buy when I noticed the lack of control and the door dancing that people were doing to try and gain back control. 

Eric, if you want a Hot Top go buy a Hot Top, if you want a Gene get a Gene, but don't be mad at Joe for building a machine that seems to be pretty successful on its own at a relatively aggressive price point but not to your personal preferences.  I'm guessing that of the Behmor owners out there only a small percentage are looking for anything other than a larger capacity, low budget home coffee roaster and Joe has produced just that.

Kudos to Joe for keeping your cool!   8)

EricBNC

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #86 on: April 25, 2012, 09:02:40 AM »

It's not my part to enlighten you Eric. 

Don't worry - you didn't accomplish it, not even by accident.

As for costing more, Behmor II could cost Hottop money, maybe even a bit more - the name is already established in our community and that has value. If I go from a Rancilio or Gaggia to a Quick Mill or Alex espresso machine, I expect that advanced capabilities will carry additional costs.

Maybe the market for premium home roasters is met fully by Hottop and Gene Cafe already.  I know I wanted a Behmor (V. 1) enough that I passed on the sub $200 home roasters and was saving towards $300 for a new roaster when Dan Brewer offered his Behmor for sale here which I bought.

After using it and trying the methods found on familiar web sites, I find it to be functional but missing some of that user input that makes a hobby more fun.  I know several people who own a Behmor as well. Being able to add some heat at a critical point of the roast (30 second Turbo mode maybe?) would solve the baked beans dilemma that happens on occasion.  Other friends of mine in the area use Hottop roasters while others use something else entirely.

My view of the market isn't the big picture, but it is part of the picture.  I appreciate your comments more Peter when you respect that.

Offline hankua

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #87 on: April 25, 2012, 09:08:06 AM »
One thing about the Behmor that comes to mind " if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Why would Joe change anything when the Behmor is the best roaster in it's price range and some of the first units are still in operation? If you want to mod the Behmor; go ahead and trick it out. If you want manual control of the heat and fan; it's already been done; but the manufacturer is wise to stay with the model that's been proven over time.

Offline peter

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2012, 09:23:37 AM »
No reason to be snarky Eric.
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Tex

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Re: Meet Gort!
« Reply #89 on: April 25, 2012, 09:34:37 AM »
No reason to be snarky Eric.

Good advice from the head snark.