Author Topic: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...  (Read 924 times)

Offline stevea

  • Standard User
  • **
  • Posts: 186
Re: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2017, 09:02:17 AM »
...

I have had their smart grinder for almost 6 years now. It has been a workhorse for me. I was always concerned about reliability, but I have not had any issues yet.

In that price range, you are looking at a Technivorm though, which many say is tops even if it doesn't have the extra features.


I used MoccaMaster for most of a year.  It's got the minimalist design ethic down, but it just feels like a bag of parts, a lego set.  It's good, wholesome, but very basic.   I haven't done a side-by-side but I don't think  the TV makes any better coffee than the BonaVitas I used, for example.

The Breville Precision is in a different class, has lotsa features & capabilities, including a pump, adjustable temps but also lotsa electronics.  Well electronics & steam/water have a way of not playing well together, so I'd prefer to read a couple critical reviews before taking the plunge.  Breville took top place on a review of the carafe heat retention.


Give it a try Steve, that is the only way you will know for sure.


Not on the market yet.

Quote
SCAA does not guarantee a good brewer, just that they paid for the politics in the coffee world to be part of the 'good ole boys gang'.


Way too cynical Aaron.
http://www.scaa.org/?page=cert2
There is an $1800 and the mfgr has to submit 5 to 10  units for evaluation.

Assuming the mfgr is submitting production units, the test assures the device can hold enough grounds (unbelievable but a lot of makers fail that), hits proper water temps, and brews for an acceptable amount of time, extracts enough solids, and gets some reasonably uniform extraction from the grounds.   Also the unit-to-unit variation can't be excessive.   That  really is 95% of the challenge in making a good cup.

Quote
There are a number of awesome brewers who are not a member of the nose up group.


Which ones ?  Name some names please.

I see, for example, Bunn only has one model (w/ a glass carafe) SCAA approved.  Based on history we can assume Bunn is making good consistent units w/ proper capacity & time, and so long as the unit has adjustable temps I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Bunn.  Joe mentioned Newco in another thread - abandoned the consumer market - makes them a dicey choice.  I've had hit & miss results from Capresso hitting temps.  There may be a lot of great non-SCAA brewers, but I'll wager there are a lot more losers.



"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow."  Mark Twain

Offline Ascholten

  • Distributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 6629
  • Artisian 6 and Behmor
Re: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2017, 01:09:34 PM »
Well of course there are going to be a lot more losers you have your 20 dollar Mr. Coffee's out there, or the 30 dollar model with the built in espresso machine!  How many other pots have you looked at steve?  Do you even check out the 'junk because they are not SCAA' pots or just assume they are garbage because they are not certified.

Let me say this again in hopes you don't try to flip the target again.

SCAA - yes ok it's going to make the mark.
NON SCAA - does not automatically mean it WON'T make the mark.    So, again, just because a pot is not SCAA certified does NOT mean it won't make a good cup of coffee.   That is not an automatic disqualification for making decent coffee.

Aaron
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake!

Offline stevea

  • Standard User
  • **
  • Posts: 186
Re: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2017, 05:21:06 PM »
...
Let me say this again in hopes you don't try to flip the target again.

No offense Aaron - but YOU are the one flipping the target, moving the goalpost.
I asked YOU to name these great non-SCAA makers, but you dodged & weaved and failed to name any.

Quote
SCAA - yes ok it's going to make the mark.
NON SCAA - does not automatically mean it WON'T make the mark.

Then name them so we can all enjoy. Rather than CLAIM that there are many non-SCAA units that are great - NAME THEM!  Tell us the names and/or models that are so great.  That's what I asked - and you completely danced around the topic.

Quote
So, again, just because a pot is not SCAA certified does NOT mean it won't make a good cup of coffee.

And again - I totally agree - in principle - but I don't know of any great non-SCAA makers.  Do you ?

Quote
That is not an automatic disqualification for making decent coffee.

Again  - I agree, BUT SCAA is genuinely a positive qualifier.  I've asked you to name some great non-SCAA  models that could generally match something like Bonvita or TV - and you've totally failed to reply.  It's probable they exist, but $1800 and 5-10 makers is not the stuff of 'payola' or an  'old boys network' as you suggest.   That's not even table stakes to market a US national product.

You got no names/models = you got no case.
You've provided zilch evidence for your case that there are  great non-SCAA makers out there.

My experience is that many non-SCAA maker are hit&miss.   You might get  great Capresso or Bunn (home unit) that hits temps & works well, or you might get a total dud of the exact same model that is way too cold.  That seems to generally NOT-HAPPEN for SCAA approved models.  I'm sure there are SCAA approved dud units just as there are great non-approved units.  My question remains - name some generally great non-SCAA maker models.
"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow."  Mark Twain

Offline stevea

  • Standard User
  • **
  • Posts: 186
Re: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2017, 08:46:09 AM »
Give it a try Steve, that is the only way you will know for sure.
...

Just got one of the first Breville Precision Brewers released in the US yesterday.   Way too many settings & options to give a review yet.

a/ The thermal carafe is really good. Keeps coffee hot for numerous hours.
b/ It makes a little humming noise as it brews - the water is pumped through a PID controlled thermoblock as I understand it.
c/ water temp is adjustable in 1 degree C increments (or 2 deg F, your choice).
d/ It will add some hot water and programmably delay to bloom the coffee,
e/  Has both basket&cone features, but the cone is  for <= 40 floz of water, the basket for 40-60floz.  Will even do single cup tho' I haven't tried.
f/ 60floz of coffee is really a lot, and I suddenly remember why I don't like basket filters.

Got a coupon for a free pourover adapter - woot!
"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow."  Mark Twain

Offline brianmch

  • Distributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 210
Re: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2017, 11:52:30 AM »
Keep us posted on the results of your testing.

Offline stevea

  • Standard User
  • **
  • Posts: 186
Re: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2017, 12:16:59 PM »
After the first pot, I shifted to the cone brewer setting which limits me to 40floz of water.  I've always preferred cones to the the "mr coffee" type baskets, probably just me.  So anyway 40oz is a bit less than my ~46oz capresso.  I've oddly upgraded to a smaller capacity brewer!?!   Yeah I could use the basket system and go up to 60floz, but I'll probably reserve that for when I have coffee drinkers over.

My first few pots tasted too mild, as though there was under-extraction.  The water distribution pattern in the grounds looks fine.  I played w/ temps, and with the water pump flow rate (slow/med/fast settings).  Too-high temps got a bit sour - most noticeable as the coffee cools.   It seems that the time to make a breville pot, even on "slow" flow rate is still faster then my capresso (and IMO the capresso was over-extracting, pulling too much bitterness).   Eventually I resorted to a slightly finer grind which seems to be working well.  IIRC I went a notch courser for the capresso as compared to the bonvita, so it makes sense I had to go back.

So my personal settings are for the (default) 30 second bloom delay, 94C(201F), and 'medium' flow rate.  And I'm getting cups as good as bonvita, tho' the pot temperature is higher and the heat retention is better.

Kitchen thermometer suggests the water temp control is accurate, but I need to dig out my lab thermometer to tell for sure.
---
There are three pre-programmed settings for 'fast', 'gold', and 'strong' pots of coffee.   Gold is restricted to the 40floz cone, and I expect it's pretty close to my personal settings.  I expect 'strong' has a slower flow rate, and 'fast' a faster flow rate - they may diddle the temps and bloom too.    I can't see much value for a 'fast' settings.  Even in a rushed morning the 45-90 seconds you save isn't IMO worth much compared w/ flavor.

It's really interesting to be able to modulate the water temp, but frankly I'm learning that w/in reason it doesn't make that much difference. 93C-95C is the sweet spot for me, and it's hard to tell the difference from 93C to 95C.  <90C is where flavor goes south.

"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow."  Mark Twain

Offline ptrmorton

  • Standard User
  • ****
  • Posts: 598
Re: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2017, 12:38:46 PM »
Great update stevea.  Thanks!
AZ Peter

Offline brianmch

  • Distributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 210
Re: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2017, 01:30:02 PM »
Thanks Stevea.

Offline Joe

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7127
  • splitting bags and having fun
Re: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2017, 12:55:08 PM »
I have the OXO on Brain and the Technivorm Moccamaster. I will be selling my Moccamaster and that is just so that I can hook up a fellow GCBC person. There is one frustration i have with the OXO after using it for several months now and that is that the pause and serve valve leaks coffee drips. What pushed me over the edge to choose that over my moccamaster is that my wife loves that it does not let you be stupid. It will not brew until you have descaled it once it needs descaling, the brew completely stops and will not overfill if the the caraf is not squarely where it is supposed to be, the brew cycle perfroms like a pour over: pausing for bloom etc.


So this is like the apple version of a coffee brewer, and the technivorm is like the Gaming rig. I personally prefer the technovorm slightly, but the wife has put the foot down.

Offline Ascholten

  • Distributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 6629
  • Artisian 6 and Behmor
Re: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2017, 04:25:32 PM »
Steve, you mentioned you like the cone brewing basket over the standard Mr. Coffee.  Same here, I believe the cone basket allows better extraction, as the water is kind of forced through all the grounds.  The mr coffee baskets, I have seen where sometimes the spray pattern, it hits the grounds, but some areas, like the outer ridges, really don't get extracted, just sort of absorb some of the water.  It gets wet but not brewed, where the cone by it's shape kind of forces all the grounds to have the water run over them.

Joe, on the TV, what I do is, it's a bit extra work but I close off the dripper, let the basket fill with water, stir with spoon to get all the grounds involved, then open dripper and let all water run out, close and repeat, up to 3 times, then final just let it run through, to be honest you pretty much extracted most out of the grounds and there is not much left to brew anyways.  I find the flavor is extremely rich this way.  I also use a mesh basket, I don't like paper, I feel that it's absorption of the oils kind of steals some flavor.  yes there is a mouth feel to the coffee, yes there is a layer of sediment on the bottom if you let it set a bit but the way I see it.  Those who like a full  bodied coffee, here it is, those who don't like mouth feel, let it set for 20 minutes and the thickness settles out a bit to give you your watery restaurant coffee :)

Aaron

Aaron
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake!

Offline stevea

  • Standard User
  • **
  • Posts: 186
Re: SCAA Certified Home Brewers ...
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2017, 01:18:48 AM »
Steve, you mentioned you like the cone brewing basket over the standard Mr. Coffee.  Same here, I believe the cone basket allows better extraction,

I've always *suspected* that, but frankly I just have bad memories from places I've worked w/basket filters, vs even the cheap old Krups I owned several decades ago.  The only basket unit I had the least respect for was Mom's Bunn - fast & pretty good.

I *think* I could get better basket performance than my first & only try from the Breville Precision, now that I've learned to use it. I'll save that for 'Experimental Wednesdays'.

Quote
stir with spoon to get all the grounds involved [...] I find the flavor is extremely rich this way.
That's on the queue for next X-Wednesday, but frankly it's a bit too fussy for everyday use .... unless it's unbelievably great.

Quote
I also use a mesh basket, I don't like paper, I feel that it's absorption of the oils kind of steals some flavor.

Dead-on and I've done side-by-by-side pots to prove the point.

But here is the hitch .... there are all kinds of papers on how coffee drinking impacts health and as a 2-pot-per-day post-colon-cancer type, I am concerned that most papers suggest coffee is mostly good for you, but a few point to some negatives.  Then I came across a paper that suggested the difference is the use of paper vs screen filters.  Where ... paper-filter=good health, screen-filter=mixed results.  The CLAIM is that paper traps various plant sterols, diterpenes yada yada that impact cholesterol...heart disease and even a few more rare cancers.

So for a while I used a metal-mesh inside of a paper filter, then re-used the paper filter like 4-6 time.  The paper filter builds up a really interesting layer of goo, that frankly tastes good.  OTOH - not gonna live forever.

My metal cone 'gold tone' filter does fit inside the Breville, but it sometimes requires an extra jiggle to get it into/out-of place.

I am expecting a pour-over adapter from Breville.  I haven't tried the cold coffee options, but I have been using the  'cup'(up to 20floz) setting to make my wife's decaf, and this 'cup setting makes a tolerable cup of tea or bouillon if you tweak the temperature up toward the 98C max.

So in all -
Makes a really good pot of coffee to 40floz (can't really say at 60floz).
Is educational to tweak the temps & rate  & bloom time - but in reality you'll settle in around gold-cup.
If all you want is full pots of drip coffee, then a Bonavita or Oxo is likely as good a choice for less $$.
If you will use the cup, or cold-brew or pour-over options - then it's a win.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 01:21:41 AM by stevea »
"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow."  Mark Twain