Author Topic: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks  (Read 115812 times)

Tex

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2009, 02:09:55 PM »
That explains everything.  Abby the Shi-Tzu says I can let the chaff fly as long as I'm on time with the Purina.

But since I have an enclosed roasting cabinet downstairs, the chaff lands in a nice big pile anyway.

Bob, do you have your spacer ring attached to the bottom unit somehow?

If you're directing that toward me, it's either Tex or Robert. THX

Always helps to have the back story, doesn't it? I can roast on the patio because my fantastic wife - aka Mrs. Harmon, v2.7 - tolerates my foolish ways.

The groove around the edge of the UFO keeps the ring stable, and it just sits there - never had a problem.

With the TurboCrazy I had the ring pop-riveted to the lip of the bottom unit.

Offline dmankin

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #76 on: February 26, 2009, 02:16:52 PM »
My spacer ring is held in place with springs. (see photo... if it works).  The ring has NEVER shifted or slipped in over 2 years.

David

Tex

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #77 on: February 26, 2009, 02:20:24 PM »
My spacer ring is held in place with springs. (see photo... if it works).  The ring has NEVER shifted or slipped in over 2 years.

David

No, but it's butt ugly!

Offline dmankin

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #78 on: February 26, 2009, 02:24:48 PM »
My spacer ring is held in place with springs. (see photo... if it works).  The ring has NEVER shifted or slipped in over 2 years.

David

No, but it's butt ugly!

... and 100% functional!   :angel:

Offline dmankin

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #79 on: February 26, 2009, 02:27:58 PM »
... and as long as we're showing off our chaff mops,   

Tex

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #80 on: February 26, 2009, 02:30:55 PM »

No, but it's butt ugly!
Quote
... and 100% functional!   :angel:

That about describes my first wife's chest, but I wouldn't have dragged her out just to show her off to my friends. ;D

Offline dmankin

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #81 on: February 26, 2009, 04:22:42 PM »
 :argue:

Tex

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #82 on: February 26, 2009, 07:20:11 PM »
When I was using the UFO/CO roaster I roasted strictly by weight, time, sound & color.

First, I like Full City or Full City Plus for espresso, and City Plus roast for all other methods of brewing coffee. For all roasts I found that 16 ozs of beans would get me to first crack in ~9 minutes at full power. After I had a rolling 1st I'd turn the roaster's dial back to 450?F and coast into second crack.

City Plus roast is about the best roast for drip and vac pot brewers. It brings out the varietal's flavor and is still dark enough to bring out some of the stronger base flavors. I judged this roast to be done by listening for the first outliers of 2nd, at which point I'd stop the heat and dump & cool the beans.

For Full City I'd ignore the outliers of 2nd and when it just started to sound busy, I'd stop the heat & dump the beans for cooling. For Full City Plus I'd again ignore the 2nd outliers and start timing as soon as 2nd got busy and let it go for 20 seconds, before stopping the roast.

Each roast has to be adjusted a bit because of variables that I don't fully understand. What I do know is that time is not absolute. Different beans take longer to get to 1st crack & 2nd crack. Some beans seem to all hit 1st & 2nd at about the same time, and then there are beans that never seem to have a definable start & finish to the different cracks.

Color seems to be the best indicator of roast levels. I've found that Sweet Maria's pictorial guide works best for me. I use a white light LED lamp when I'm roasting in order to have consistent lighting from roast to roast. By comparing what I see in the pan to what I see on the guide I've been able to hit the roast I want pretty consistently.

So I'd say the UFO/CO roaster has been a good roaster for me. I've built them for friends and neighbors and helped online friends put theirs together. I've always told people interested in getting into the hobby to start with a homebuilt roaster rather than buying one. The money saved can be significant and I truly don't believe the ones you can buy perform any better than the UFO/CO or TurboCrazy roasters built for $100 or so.

That's my story & I'm sticking to it!


« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 08:22:03 PM by Tex »

Offline peter

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #83 on: February 26, 2009, 07:33:00 PM »

City roast...  I judged this roast to be done by listening for the first outliers of SC, at which point I'd stop the heat and dump & cool the beans.

For Full City I'd ignore the outliers of SC and when it just started to sound busy, I'd stop the heat & dump the beans for cooling. For Full City Plus I'd again ignore the SC outliers and start timing as soon as SC got busy and let it go for 20 seconds, before stopping the roast.



Not that we have any rules here at the Club, but so that we're at least somewhat on the same page, this is something that was agreed on a long time ago; Roast Levels/Names  It makes it easier to discuss roasting, and not have to describe what is meant by the names of roast levels each time, if there's some common descriptors.
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Tex

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2009, 08:00:40 PM »

City roast...  I judged this roast to be done by listening for the first outliers of SC, at which point I'd stop the heat and dump & cool the beans.

For Full City I'd ignore the outliers of SC and when it just started to sound busy, I'd stop the heat & dump the beans for cooling. For Full City Plus I'd again ignore the SC outliers and start timing as soon as SC got busy and let it go for 20 seconds, before stopping the roast.



Not that we have any rules here at the Club, but so that we're at least somewhat on the same page, this is something that was agreed on a long time ago; Roast Levels/Names  It makes it easier to discuss roasting, and not have to describe what is meant by the names of roast levels each time, if there's some common descriptors.


I've seen those descriptors and read SM's guide, neither of which takes outliers into account. I just don't consider those premature cracks to be true indicators of roast level. For instance, I just roasted a yirgacheffe that started into the outliers of second crack almost as soon as first crack finished. I wouldn't consider a roast stopped there to be anything but City roast, but by the standards set so rigidly here & elsewhere it would be considered to be a City plus at a minimum or even a Full City roast because second crack had started.

So, I use the extra descriptor of outliers to mark the areas between roast levels. I agree there are standards and for good reasons, but I don't hold to them so rigidly as others.

Offline peter

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #85 on: February 26, 2009, 08:40:28 PM »
I've seen those descriptors and read SM's guide, neither of which takes outliers into account. I just don't consider those premature cracks to be true indicators of roast level. For instance, I just roasted a yirgacheffe that started into the outliers of second crack almost as soon as first crack finished. I wouldn't consider a roast stopped there to be anything but City roast, but by the standards set so rigidly here & elsewhere it would be considered to be a City plus at a minimum or even a Full City roast because second crack had started.

So, I use the extra descriptor of outliers to mark the areas between roast levels. I agree there are standards and for good reasons, but I don't hold to them so rigidly as others.

That's bogus logic Robert. 

If your roast is hot enough to be going into 2nd, even if they're only outliers signaling that 2nd is imminent, you're waaaaay past a City.  All that tells you is that you poured too much heat into the bean going into, and during, 1st crack.

If you want to call a City roast a City roast, you have to be able to stop the roast at the temps it took to clear 1st.  That Yirg you refer to...  let's say for the sake of argument that you could start 1st at 405F and finish 1st at 420F.  At that point it's a City roast(if the roast is ended then).  If you pile so much heat into the bean mass driving into 1st and during 1st, there will be so much energy in the beans that by the time 1st is over you could well be into the low 430's.  Just because that's where 1st crack ended has nothing to do with that being a City roast.  IOW, internal bean temp is more relevant to roast level than sound.

Whatever happened to letting 1st end, having a slow ramp in temps over a 2-3min. period for flavor and body development, before getting any outliers of 2nd?

I don't mean this to come off like a lecture or sound condescending, please forgive me if it does.  Nor do I wish to impugn your roasting skills or make mine to be 'all that.'  This is all meant to be an attempt at a semblance of common ground.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 08:43:36 PM by peter »
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Tex

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #86 on: February 26, 2009, 09:01:22 PM »
I've seen those descriptors and read SM's guide, neither of which takes outliers into account. I just don't consider those premature cracks to be true indicators of roast level. For instance, I just roasted a yirgacheffe that started into the outliers of second crack almost as soon as first crack finished. I wouldn't consider a roast stopped there to be anything but City roast, but by the standards set so rigidly here & elsewhere it would be considered to be a City plus at a minimum or even a Full City roast because second crack had started.

So, I use the extra descriptor of outliers to mark the areas between roast levels. I agree there are standards and for good reasons, but I don't hold to them so rigidly as others.

That's bogus logic Robert. 

If your roast is hot enough to be going into 2nd, even if they're only outliers signaling that 2nd is imminent, you're waaaaay past a City.  All that tells you is that you poured too much heat into the bean going into, and during, 1st crack.

If you want to call a City roast a City roast, you have to be able to stop the roast at the temps it took to clear 1st.  That Yirg you refer to...  let's say for the sake of argument that you could start 1st at 405F and finish 1st at 420F.  At that point it's a City roast(if the roast is ended then).  If you pile so much heat into the bean mass driving into 1st and during 1st, there will be so much energy in the beans that by the time 1st is over you could well be into the low 430's.  Just because that's where 1st crack ended has nothing to do with that being a City roast.

Whatever happened to letting 1st end, having a slow ramp in temps over a 2-3min. period for flavor and body development, before getting any outliers of 2nd?

I don't mean this to come off like a lecture or sound condescending, please forgive me if it does.  Nor do I wish to impugn your roasting skills or make mine to be 'all that.'  This is all meant to be an attempt at a semblance of common ground.

No, I understand what you're saying about using temps to define roasts Peter. I played around with temps for a while with the UFO/CO & TurboCrazy, but I couldn't find a location in the 1-pound bean mass that gave me a reliable match between bean mass temps and sound/color/bean appearance. Since temps seemed to be such a problematic variable, I decided to roast just by sound/color/bean appearance. BTW: At one point I had a TurboCrazy with four PID's & t/c combinations with different set-points, trying to develop a better way to roast by temp profile. Maybe I shouldn't have given up on it quickly, but I just couldn't get consistent temps at the t/c's!

I'm trying to use temp readings more now that I'm using the Sonofresco, but I'm having the same problem finding a location in the 1.4 pound bean mass that gives me reliable readings. I'll keep playing with temps but I'll rely on sound/color/bean appearance to determine roast levels.

When I start using the Ambex the 5-pound bean mass should be sufficient to let me take very accurate readings. Then I hope to really be able to roast by temp and stop the guess work. Thanks for taking the time to help me get the hang of roasting!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 09:02:58 PM by Tex »

Offline peter

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #87 on: February 26, 2009, 09:22:11 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to help me get the hang of roasting!

Ya gotta love the Club!  I have a long way to go, but everything I know about roasting, I learned here.  And of course, taking what I learn here and applying it in my bunker, and shaping the info into my own understanding.  There are people here that have been roasting more and longer than I have, but on average I've been doing ~50 roasts per month for 4 years, and I tip my hat to all those who have helped me learn the art of turning green beans tasty.
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Tex

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #88 on: February 26, 2009, 09:26:17 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to help me get the hang of roasting!
Ya gotta love the Club!  I have a long way to go, but everything I know about roasting, I learned here.

Heck, if it was easy my brother-in-law would roast beans. That would take all the fun out of it if that doofus could do it!

SusanJoM

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Re: SC/TO Profiles, Questions, Tricks, Tips, & Answers
« Reply #89 on: February 28, 2009, 12:41:15 PM »
Well, I am throwing in the towel on this project.
I really hate to be a quitter, but there is NO way I can get a piece of aluminum bent into the right shape. 
You think haven't tried?????
I'm on my third piece, and it still just will not work....for me.

First I drilled too many holes in the wrong places in an aluminum yardstick.
Then Tex mentioned that my second yardstick was probably just too thick a piece of aluminum.
And now....with my third piece of exactly 1/16 1.25" ....

It's NOT working.
I've tried using a mallet on it when its wrapped around a cast iron dutch oven, but with the bolt in it it bulges....

I'm feeling excessively cranky about this whole thing right this minute, so....
be nice....

Oh, wait.....
maybe I'm the person those spring form cake pans are meant for.....hmmmmmm.....

Okay.....
I'll try to find one of those.....but not today.
Shopping anywhere but the Farmers Market on Saturday is not my idea of fun....

Susan
who promises to stop whining RIGHT NOW....