Green Coffee Buying Club

Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: RobertL on April 12, 2012, 06:50:35 PM

Title: Meet Gort!
Post by: RobertL on April 12, 2012, 06:50:35 PM
Joe's video leaked apparently so here it is......

 Brazen Brew System by Behmor Inc. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otWCirV2yeg#ws)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jspain on April 12, 2012, 07:11:36 PM
Looking forward to meeting Gort first hand at Joe's booth at SCAA! Nice looking machine that appears to be quite innovative!!! The features hit all the points for a great brew for a drip machine! Can't wait to try her out!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on April 12, 2012, 07:16:05 PM
Joe's video leaked apparently so here it is......

 Brazen Brew System by Behmor Inc. ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otWCirV2yeg#ws[/url])


Not me.  Sworn to silence.

B|Java
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jspain on April 12, 2012, 07:17:37 PM
Joe's video leaked apparently so here it is......

 Brazen Brew System by Behmor Inc. ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otWCirV2yeg#ws[/url])


Not me.  Sworn to silence.

B|Java


Nor me!
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: RobertL on April 12, 2012, 07:40:34 PM
I first saw Joe tweet about the leaked video so I checked CG and it was there. He has made a few posts about it on CG if anyone is interested in reading them. He mentioned that the price would be very reasonable.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: staylor on April 12, 2012, 08:01:30 PM
Very interesting.

Any one else enjoy the pronunciation at 2:58.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Warrior372 on April 12, 2012, 08:18:12 PM
His attempt to say Innovative :) ? It will be interesting to get feedback on the machine once people have a chance to use it. Are they going to advertise late night? That video had infomercial written all over it between the animation and the guy with the accent :) .
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: mp on April 12, 2012, 09:09:44 PM
Yeah ... that does sound quite interesting.

Wasn't he working on a new roaster too?

 ???
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: rasqual on April 12, 2012, 10:47:13 PM
Nice.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on April 13, 2012, 01:03:32 AM
Sure is a renewed emphasis on automatic drip coffee lately - see what you manual pour over guys started! :D
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ringo on April 13, 2012, 02:43:50 AM
I believe the Behmor is a great machine with 1st class service, is this coffee makers the same quality I will put it on my Christmas list.  Joe is into safety so much every time he talks of the coffee pot he will warn, Never leave the pot when it is brewing. LOL
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on April 13, 2012, 02:44:38 AM
Very interesting.

Any one else enjoy the pronunciation at 2:58.

I can't catch the word, though I did hear that the Brazen was 'bold.'
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on April 13, 2012, 12:51:13 PM
A steel pot though, I wonder what that will do to the flavor of the coffee.  Some folks claim the stainless steel 'taints' the taste of the coffee when held in it.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on April 13, 2012, 01:11:38 PM
HoHum...
(http://kindergarten-fy01-g.fountaincityes.knoxschools.org/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/443859/Image/CAMERON%27s%20IMAGES/General/Yawn.gif)

Another New & Improved drip pot; how exciting.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on April 13, 2012, 01:13:35 PM
possibly yak as long as it doesn't have one of those kanuten flapper thingies that turns off the coffee flow when the pot is removed.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: mp on April 13, 2012, 02:07:26 PM
HoHum...
([url]http://kindergarten-fy01-g.fountaincityes.knoxschools.org/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/443859/Image/CAMERON%27s%20IMAGES/General/Yawn.gif[/url])

Another New & Improved drip pot; how exciting.


Common Robert ... stop getting so excited!

 ;D
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on April 13, 2012, 03:16:13 PM
that water temp is in the enclosed controlled head on the thing,  once it drops down then all bets are off on temperature retention.  Pour your 195 degree water into a french press and watch how quickly it cools.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on April 13, 2012, 04:49:23 PM
If you brewed in it's basket it might do ok because that is enclosed and once the initial heating shot is through probably will keep the water within ten degrees or so of what you dialed it in to.  If you are dumping into a french press, I can't see it keeping the temperature at all.  Too much loss on the way down and through the glass walls.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: John F on April 13, 2012, 05:58:09 PM
It does look "in a va tuve".

Temp control, dwell time control, room to bloom... I don't see anything not to like about it. Should be a home run.

I'm a committed non auto guy but if I wasn't I'd be very interested. 
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on April 13, 2012, 06:01:19 PM
What the best guess on price?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: MGLloyd on April 13, 2012, 06:44:44 PM
Approximately $ 199, according to the CG posts.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on April 14, 2012, 02:09:27 AM
I wish I could try it out - I have one of the new Bodum b. over auto drip brewers heading my way - I thought this was vapor ware (still might be) but I can test it head to head against my Bonavita BV-1800. If I could get my hands on one of these Brazen's and a Technivorm too it would make for a great over $100 machine shoot out.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jspain on April 14, 2012, 06:15:48 AM
I wish I could try it out - I have one of the new Bodum b. over auto drip brewers heading my way - I thought this was vapor ware (still might be) but I can test it head to head against my Bonavita BV-1800. If I could get my hands on one of these Brazen's and a Technivorm too it would make for a great over $100 machine shoot out.

That's my plan! If all goes well I'll bring Gort home with me from SCAA and set her next to my Moccamaster and give the club feedback on the "Drip Off!"  8)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on April 14, 2012, 11:27:27 AM
The drip off?

Hmm sounds like the line outside doc's office after the ship leaves Thailand  :x

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 14, 2012, 03:37:39 PM
The drip off?

Hmm sounds like the line outside doc's office after the ship leaves Thailand  :x

Aaron

that's funny   :)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: milowebailey on April 14, 2012, 08:18:36 PM
I just got a Moccamaster 2 weeks ago.... kinda wish I'd waited now... :'(
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: John F on April 14, 2012, 08:25:13 PM
I just got a Moccamaster 2 weeks ago....

Say it ain't so....

Why the heck did you do that?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: milowebailey on April 14, 2012, 08:53:56 PM
I just got a Moccamaster 2 weeks ago....

Say it ain't so....

Why the heck did you do that?
It was all B|Java's fault.... he posted a link.  They were on sale for $195 shipped....and my drip machine (Mrs. Milowebailey uses) was on the fritz.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Jeffo on April 14, 2012, 10:29:32 PM
I liked it until I saw the name Nick Cho. Oh wait, that was another one.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on April 15, 2012, 02:11:38 AM
I just got a Moccamaster 2 weeks ago....

Say it ain't so....

Why the heck did you do that?

You don't see many complaints from TV owners - You will be alright.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 18, 2012, 09:27:29 AM
HoHum...
([url]http://kindergarten-fy01-g.fountaincityes.knoxschools.org/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/443859/Image/CAMERON%27s%20IMAGES/General/Yawn.gif[/url])

Another New & Improved drip pot; how exciting.


I'd agree if we had just taken the easy route of copying technivorm, one rocker switch with cheapened materials. Then again I'd have not wasted 4 years of my life seeking only to be a "me too".

But that's not the route we took. We decided solve problems associated with all brewers in some areas, with some brewers in other areas, while at the same time creating a brilliant cup of coffee. According to a few who've tested the unit, we've succeeded

Further, our feature set (see below) alone marks a clear distinction with the Brazen versus any other brewer.. and I mean any..

We are working to redefine drip brewers if you will and that's "Aufregend".
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on April 18, 2012, 09:51:17 AM
I have a bunch of coffee pots of all types.  Well perhaps I should say coffee brewers, and yes even a technivorn.  The one thing I can say they all have in common is, they all spit out water at whatever temperature THEY decide to.

the fact that you can 'dial in' the temperature this thing spits the water out at, is imho very innovative.   The pretty much 'agreed upon' ideal temp to brew coffee is at 185 to 205 degrees.  Now where the problem lies is,  ok in that band WHERE is the perfect spot?   Some like it hot, some like it not.  Yet others will say it depends on the coffee, and the grind.

Even with the technivorn, which has to this date essentially been considered the flagship or 'standard' for coffee brewers of the drippy variety, you are stuck with whatever it is going to spit out at you.   With this pot you get to decide the temperature, and although you can calibrate it (pretty neat) even if you could not, ... if you find that the water is actually 3 degrees cooler than you dialed it in at, well just set the temperature up 3 degrees and problem solved!

I think this is the first coffee brewer that lets the user select their brewing temperature.  Even for the espresso / cappucino folks, everyone has their 'opinion' on the ideal temp to do what at.  Hence the 'trick' of putting a PID on the machine, to better refine the process and control it.

For someone who puts a PID on an espresso machine to let the user dial in the temperature they want it to work at, it's kind of odd that you would yawn at someone wanting to do the same for the drip pot folks.  For those who are not coffee nerds, having something that lets them experiment and try different ways and temperatures without having to do all kinds of hardware hacks etc really is a good thing.  It exposes more folks to what is really out there in the coffee world, without having to have a PhD to figure it out.

Given some of the terrible things I have done to my Behmore roaster, (I still have one sitting in the closet I never got around to putting a motor into grrr), if this is built half as tough as those are, I think we are seeing the birth of a really decent coffee brewer.

I would be interested in trying one of these out.  To be honest, for those who like tea as well, if this can spit out hot water that is controllable as well,  I believe he will have two firm markets to sell it in.   I paid 200 for a tecchny, so why not one of these as well and sell the TV?

One question.  I know this is not something that is easily controlled within the specs you have to work with on an 'appliance' but how fast does it spit the water out?  I know some pots you will grow grey waiting for them to gurgle out a full pot.  Mr. Coffee comes to mind as one of the slowest brewers I have ever seen.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on April 18, 2012, 10:56:41 AM
I've not seen a mechanical drawing of the Gort, but the one thing no electric drip pot has ever done well is control the temperature of the water after it leaves the boiler. Look at the TV as a prime example; from the boiler to the filter there is an uninsulated arrangement of materials (plastic & metal) that degrade the water's temperature stability before it even touches the coffee.

What good does it do to closely regulate the boiler temperature without considering the actual brewing temperature? A relatively cheap pour over coffee maker gives the operator complete control over brew temperatures, so why should anyone spend hundreds of dollars for inferior equipment?

Make me an electric drip pot with the boiler directly over the filter, with the water flowing in an easily regulated manner into the filter, and I might consider it an improvement in drip coffee making. Otherwise it's a reinvention of the wheel, or as grandpa used to say, "Stop putting lipstick on that pig - she'll never be pretty!"

edited: Having said the above, I will be one of the first purchasers of a Gort when they hit the shelves. I hope it's everything it's purported to be.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 18, 2012, 12:26:31 PM
Aaron.. the system program is designed to stagger releases according the ml/ per sec so we don't over flood the grounds and create a mess. Actual brew time appx. 4:15 w/ these staggers. That is on auto brew.. if you do manual it is appx. 10-15ml per sec depending upon gravity's head pressure.. less flow as pressure becomes less.

As to temp variances.. We have an appx. 1.75" drop from reservoir to dispersion disc and have seen modest temp drops to that point and is one of the main reasons we have a wide range of temps available to use. This builds in for the drop and a person's own desire along with an another factor, plus we have other variances built in to counter these drops.

It isn't perfect by any stretch but given the dynamics a fantastic job has been done and that according to others not aligned or affiliated with Behmor Inc.

One of the things we are particularly pleased with is the water dispersion, grounds satuartion. It is even as shown in the two photos. One is of a pre-soak at 15 seconds (lloks almost like pour over) and the other after a full brew. And these were from early versions of the disc which has been altered for even better dispersion.





Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: MGLloyd on April 18, 2012, 01:09:57 PM
^^^ Wow, that is some pretty darn even saturation.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 18, 2012, 02:03:01 PM
One thing I think failed to fully explain.. you have real time read out of water temp in the heat up phase.. You can stop it at any point by pressing Manual, then press it again and it releases water.

You can stop it at 170..160...180..125.. Given you'd be outside the "glide in" portion of our program (ie: still full power/heat) you'd want to anticipate/ build in a little for overshoot.. for 175..stop at 172 etc
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on April 18, 2012, 02:20:37 PM
Oh I like that a lot!!  Once it hits the temp you stop it at, does that turn the heat off totally, or keep it simmering at that temperature?

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 18, 2012, 02:28:12 PM
All heat is off.. because you've overridden the program

Oh and please..Text ECON2 to 86677 to vote for Behmor Inc. Vote early, vote often, vote Behmor People Choice :-)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: John F on April 18, 2012, 02:36:46 PM
It looks like the best auto machine out there.

Can't wait for users to start putting coffee to it and start testing.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 18, 2012, 02:55:49 PM
we've poured our heart and soul into this..the hell with the money. This is about doing a great job and giving people something they've never gotten before in an automatic system..control w/ great results.

We truly believe we are going to re-define drip and auto brewing..

And here's the thing.. we aren't done.

Oh and Text ECON2 to 86677 to vote for Behmor Inc. People's Choice..vote early, vote often (you can vote 100X) and vote Behmor
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 18, 2012, 02:57:41 PM
Those pictures of the bed saturation are amazing... something I didn't realize based on the promo material.  I think that's one of may big selling points to Gort.

I would really like to try the Rwanda 2012 COE #29 Kagimbanyi Uwimbabazi Margueritte in that brewer.

Bring some to the booth, we'll be brewing away..

Text ECON2 to 86677 to vote for Behmor Inc. Vote early, vote often (you can), vote Behmor People Choice :-)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ringo on April 18, 2012, 05:00:20 PM
Joe
Are these going to be sold at the show?  Show discount?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 18, 2012, 05:24:04 PM
All the brewers we have at the show are committed to either be used internally or to those we promised units to as samples for their review process.. sorry about that.


Text ECON2 to 86677 to vote for Behmor Inc. Vote early, vote often (you can), vote Behmor People Choice :-)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jspain on April 18, 2012, 06:11:49 PM
Those pictures of the bed saturation are amazing... something I didn't realize based on the promo material.  I think that's one of may big selling points to Gort.

I would really like to try the Rwanda 2012 COE #29 Kagimbanyi Uwimbabazi Margueritte in that brewer.

Bring some to the booth, we'll be brewing away..

Text ECON2 to 86677 to vote for Behmor Inc. Vote early, vote often (you can), vote Behmor People Choice :-)

Joe,

I'll see you on Friday at the booth! Patti and I just got to Seattle, rented the car and are now in East Ashford Wa. at the base of Mt. Rainer. We'll be in Portland for dinner tomorrow evening with "the boys!" I'll bring some Columbia Geisha to the booth! Jim
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: RobertL on April 18, 2012, 06:12:48 PM
So when will we be able to buy one? I was very close to pulling the trigger on a Technivorm I'm glad I waited.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 18, 2012, 07:06:47 PM
I get in tomorrow about 2 and will head to the hotel then the hall to drop off roasters and other things. If people are open for it, maybe get together for a bite at some point.. tomorrow evening or Sunday.

Post here or send an email to sales..
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on April 18, 2012, 07:08:50 PM
I get in tomorrow about 2 and will head to the hotel then the hall to drop off roasters and other things. If people are open for it, maybe get together for a bite at some point.. tomorrow evening or Sunday.

Post here or send an email to sales..


Joe, join us at the Observatory at 7pm for fish.  Please do:  http://www.theobservatorypdx.com/ (http://www.theobservatorypdx.com/).  Love to have you.  5-6 of us members are dining.  We have met and I can keep an eye out for you.


B|Java
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 18, 2012, 07:09:27 PM
So when will we be able to buy one? I was very close to pulling the trigger on a Technivorm I'm glad I waited.

I have to sign off on the inspection procedure before we can start production. That will occur the 9th of May and then we can start.. Realistically it'll be the end of June before roasters arrive.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 18, 2012, 07:12:44 PM
I get in tomorrow about 2 and will head to the hotel then the hall to drop off roasters and other things. If people are open for it, maybe get together for a bite at some point.. tomorrow evening or Sunday.

Post here or send an email to sales..


Joe, join us at the Observatory at 7pm for fish.  Please do:  [url]http://www.theobservatorypdx.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.theobservatorypdx.com/[/url]).  Love to have you.  5-6 of us members are dining.


I'm flying my Asian rep in from China and so he'd be along as well, if that's OK. Percy (Li Jun) is an absolutely great guy and has been a blessing to both Behmor and me personally.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on April 18, 2012, 07:15:03 PM
...
I'm flying my Asian rep in from China and so he'd be along as well, if that's OK. Percy (Li Jun) is an absolutely great guy and has been a blessing to both Behmor and me personally.

I think I can speak for the group and welcome you both.  Dave
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 18, 2012, 07:25:38 PM
So when will we be able to buy one? I was very close to pulling the trigger on a Technivorm I'm glad I waited.

I have to sign off on the inspection procedure before we can start production. That will occur the 9th of May and then we can start.. Realistically it'll be the end of June before roasters brewers arrive.

Fixed it for ya!

oops.. roasters are on the brain. Shipments of those are on the water too... thanks
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: milowebailey on April 18, 2012, 08:03:57 PM
I get in tomorrow about 2 and will head to the hotel then the hall to drop off roasters and other things. If people are open for it, maybe get together for a bite at some point.. tomorrow evening or Sunday.

Post here or send an email to sales..


Joe, join us at the Observatory at 7pm for fish.  Please do:  [url]http://www.theobservatorypdx.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.theobservatorypdx.com/[/url]).  Love to have you.  5-6 of us members are dining.  We have met and I can keep an eye out for you.


B|Java

+1 please join us, 1st beer is on Dave

Drafts 4.25
Ninkasi Total Domination IPA
Double Mountain India Red Ale
Hopworks HUB Lager
Seasonal Selection*
*ask your server about our rotating tap
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jspain on April 18, 2012, 08:35:31 PM
...
I'm flying my Asian rep in from China and so he'd be along as well, if that's OK. Percy (Li Jun) is an absolutely great guy and has been a blessing to both Behmor and me personally.

I think I can speak for the group and welcome you both.  Dave

+2!  :)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: mp on April 19, 2012, 03:18:46 AM
...
I'm flying my Asian rep in from China and so he'd be along as well, if that's OK. Percy (Li Jun) is an absolutely great guy and has been a blessing to both Behmor and me personally.

I think I can speak for the group and welcome you both.  Dave

+3

 :)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: milowebailey on April 19, 2012, 08:21:43 AM
Yes, Joe, please join!

Sadly, I left my coffee case at work so no home-roast COE or Ethiopia Haro Sana :( but I'm sure Portland will have coffee.
Look at it this way.... you "get" to try somebody else's roasts... I seldom drink coffee I don't roast.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 19, 2012, 08:37:09 AM
we will have fresh roasted Brazilian at the booth.. roasted just for the show and be at 4 days rest tomorrow which should be ideal.

Half way there..in San Francisco next stop Portland. Percy's flight is delayed so hopefully between US Customs and TSA he doesn't get delayed too much.

I should see everyone tonight but likely dragging a little, been up since 2 working and thinking about all that needs to be done. Percy may be even worse for wear.  :)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: John F on April 19, 2012, 09:05:50 AM

Sadly, I left my coffee case at work

The one thing you forgot....the coffee.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jspain on April 19, 2012, 01:59:31 PM

Sadly, I left my coffee case at work

The one thing you forgot....the coffee.  ;D ;D

Got us covered! Columbia Geshia, Lion's Gate Kona, Elida Natural, Peru Norte', El Sal Santa Sophia, and Brazil Candado! I just need to keep enough for the boss and I to have from Monday next week through Friday as we meander back to Seattle via the Pacific and out to Friday Harbor in the Sound for a few island days! Good coffee, great views, and best of all FRIENDS! jim
Title: Thanks..Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 22, 2012, 06:11:48 PM
Thanks to everyone who voted in the Best New Product People's Choice Award .. Behmor with your kind assistance was able to take home that prize.

From the bottom of my heart.. Thank you

Joe Behm
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jspain on April 22, 2012, 07:24:02 PM
Joe,

Great to meet you!

I can't believe you still have a voice left! I thought I could talk alot! You WIN that contest!!!!!

Looking forward to your Brazzen hitting the market place! I'll be getting the first one when available! Jim

Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: MGLloyd on April 23, 2012, 03:59:40 PM
^^^ Now there is some news I can use: it comes with a permanent gold mesh filter!
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on April 23, 2012, 06:40:55 PM
Tahoejoe, you need to step it up a notch at the conventions; you are way to calm and staid; cut it loose my friend.  <big wink>
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 23, 2012, 08:42:51 PM
Passion baby..  ;)

Thanks again to everyone who stopped by the booth and those who couldn't for the kind words of encouragement .. trust me when I say it drives me to do better.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: milowebailey on April 24, 2012, 06:38:00 AM
There are a lot of amped up people at a coffee fest, but Joe was turned up past 11.  :)  Great to meet you Joe and keep up the gort work!
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 24, 2012, 10:38:33 AM
you and people like you make this fun so it's easy to be excited..and stay excited.. thx

Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: MGLloyd on April 24, 2012, 05:19:41 PM
So let us ponder Joe's progression: first a roaster, then a drip brewer, then.......

I predict a grinder.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: RobertL on April 24, 2012, 06:16:33 PM
So let us ponder Joe's progression: first a roaster, then a drip brewer, then.......

I predict a grinder.

Or espresso machine?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on April 24, 2012, 06:27:38 PM
...or a roaster with the level of control people have been begging for and upgrading away from their Behmor 1600's to find for far too long now?

I am glad you have a coffee maker, but as a Behmor roaster owner, I would like to see a kit or something to record profiles, temps, etc and give additional control when needed.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 25, 2012, 05:50:05 AM
So let us ponder Joe's progression: first a roaster, then a drip brewer, then.......

I predict a grinder.

only the shadow knows  8)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 25, 2012, 05:55:31 AM
...or a roaster with the level of control people have been begging for and upgrading away from their Behmor 1600's to find for far too long now?

I am glad you have a coffee maker, but as a Behmor roaster owner, I would like to see a kit or something to record profiles, temps, etc and give additional control when needed.

Understood but between attorneys, insurance companies, ETL, UL, GS and CE...it ain't all that easy to give users what they want due to a few Darwin Award winner wannabees
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on April 25, 2012, 06:20:13 AM
...or a roaster with the level of control people have been begging for and upgrading away from their Behmor 1600's to find for far too long now?

I am glad you have a coffee maker, but as a Behmor roaster owner, I would like to see a kit or something to record profiles, temps, etc and give additional control when needed.


Understood but between attorneys, insurance companies, ETL, UL, GS and CE...it ain't all that easy to give users what they want due to a few Darwin Award winner wannabees


OK, it ain't easy but it ain't impossible either - I hope you sell a million coffee makers and then come back to give attention to what gave you your voice - what are these guys doing that exposes them to any more liability than your current roaster?

http://www.hottopusa.com/ (http://www.hottopusa.com/)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: John F on April 25, 2012, 06:21:56 AM
When somebody makes an "affordable" (whatever that is) cool grinder capable of espresso and easy switching to drip their name will be imortalized in the espresso hall of fame.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on April 25, 2012, 06:28:16 AM
When somebody makes an "affordable" (whatever that is) cool grinder capable of espresso and easy switching to drip their name will be imortalized in the espresso hall of fame.

OE Pharos, Zassenhaus (many models), Baratza Preciso, etc...
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: John F on April 25, 2012, 06:35:21 AM
I'm not so sure if the Pharos is cool or if its labratorial in a 1950's monster movie sort of way...

But in any event I mean with power.  8)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 25, 2012, 07:02:23 AM
...or a roaster with the level of control people have been begging for and upgrading away from their Behmor 1600's to find for far too long now?

I am glad you have a coffee maker, but as a Behmor roaster owner, I would like to see a kit or something to record profiles, temps, etc and give additional control when needed.


Understood but between attorneys, insurance companies, ETL, UL, GS and CE...it ain't all that easy to give users what they want due to a few Darwin Award winner wannabees


OK, it ain't easy but it ain't impossible either - I hope you sell a million coffee makers and then come back to give attention to what gave you your voice - what are these guys doing that exposes them to any more liability than your current roaster?

[url]http://www.hottopusa.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.hottopusa.com/[/url])


Eric.. with all due respect..it's easy to build what has already been approved (current HotTop or Behmor 1600) until you revise to a new model or make program changes.. then you are forced to seek new approvals and meet the newest standards. I more than anyone know who does what and when and I also know what the limitations are since it is front and center with me everyday.
 
Lastly ..no one understands better than I the role users/ customers make to my world, nor does anyone appreciate them more than I and to infer to the contrary or to infer that I don't listen is insulting..

Walk a day in my shoes and you would have not written what you did..

ps.. I can and do multi-task



 
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: MGLloyd on April 25, 2012, 07:16:19 AM
Eric, I do liability for a living, although it is medical malpractice defense, not product liability.  I did do medical product liability earlier in my career.  Not knowing any of the specifics that Joe is referring to, but I certainly can appreciate his point about designing and manufacturing products that have the ability to burn down your house or injure the user if misused.  It is the sort of thing that gives insurance companies the vapors. 

I am often reminded of something my Dad used to say.  Dad was an aeronautical engineer at Boeing for 40 years and worked on commercial, government and military projects.  He was fond of saying 'Just when you make something idiot-proof, they come out with a better grade of idiot'. 
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on April 25, 2012, 07:26:27 AM
If no one was adding roasting controls I could give a pass here - Hottop, Gene Cafe, and Freshroast don't fear the dial adjustment and those that manufacture the roasters listed walk in your shoes every day.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 25, 2012, 07:29:52 AM
Erci..

I don't think you grasp what I'm saying..it's called grandfathering.. we can do that as the others have or they got in before changes were made to the rules.

It's when it's a new program/ item, rules can change, they are applicable..and if you would stop for a second and read what I'm saying.. They have changed.

Ask yourself why do I know this and these things?

Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: John F on April 25, 2012, 07:40:07 AM
Funniest thing I've ever seen Tahoe post.  ;D
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 25, 2012, 07:47:12 AM
Funniest thing I've ever seen Tahoe post.  ;D

Just think what I'm like when I'm angry  ;)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on April 25, 2012, 07:55:52 AM
Erci..

I don't think you grasp what I'm saying..it's called grandfathering.. we can do that as the others have or they got in before changes were made to the rules.

It's when it's a new program/ item, rules can change, they are applicable..and if you would stop for a second and read what I'm saying.. They have changed.

Ask yourself why do I know this and these things?
So it wasn't worth your time to try and solve the problem within the current standards, OK, I get it...
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on April 25, 2012, 08:05:13 AM
Erci..

I don't think you grasp what I'm saying..it's called grandfathering.. we can do that as the others have or they got in before changes were made to the rules.

It's when it's a new program/ item, rules can change, they are applicable..and if you would stop for a second and read what I'm saying.. They have changed.

Ask yourself why do I know this and these things?
So it wasn't worth your time to try and solve the problem within the current standards, OK, I get it...

I don't think you get it.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on April 25, 2012, 08:10:12 AM
I don't think you get it.

Help me out then - either a problem is worth solving or it is not. Choices were made and the new upgraded roaster is the same as the original roaster, except now there is a coffee pot sitting next to it.

I am not alone in visualizing the possibilities trapped inside the 1600, but this is not the thread where we should have that discussion - plenty are already around for that.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: MMW on April 25, 2012, 08:24:17 AM
I don't think you get it.

Help me out then - either a problem is worth solving or it is not. Choices were made and the new upgraded roaster is the same as the original roaster, except now there is a coffee pot sitting next to it.

I am not alone in visualizing the possibilities trapped inside the 1600, but this is not the thread where we should have that discussion - plenty are already around for that.

I'd wager that those issues are solvable within the current regulatory/insurance requirements but probably not at a $300 price point...
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on April 25, 2012, 08:36:52 AM
I don't think you get it.

Help me out then - either a problem is worth solving or it is not. Choices were made and the new upgraded roaster is the same as the original roaster, except now there is a coffee pot sitting next to it.

I am not alone in visualizing the possibilities trapped inside the 1600, but this is not the thread where we should have that discussion - plenty are already around for that.

I'd wager that those issues are solvable within the current regulatory/insurance requirements but probably not at a $300 price point...

That's one thing that came to mind. 

It's not my part to enlighten you Eric.  Joe has shed some light on it, and no doubt he has more obstacles he hasn't brought up.  My guess is there isn't anyone who would want the Behmor to do all us geeks want it to do more than Joe, and I'd bet my bottom dollar if it was feasible it would be done, since it would lead to selling more machines.  The fact that the Behmor isn't all you and I would want it to be, tells me there's more to the story than you and I know.  But your words make it sound as if you know something Joe doesn't.  The Behmor is what it is; if it stays that way, don't assume Joe Behm is uncaring or not listening or lazy, but that he might just have legitimate reasons.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: blzrfn on April 25, 2012, 08:52:12 AM
I think it is healthy to accept criticism of a product but unhealthy when the critique gets away from being just direct feedback.  Sure Joe could do lots of things with the Behmor, but it is what it is and I'm sure he is making a decent living building and selling them.  Is it for everybody?  Its not for me, and I say this having never used one or seen one operate.  I made my decision to not buy when I noticed the lack of control and the door dancing that people were doing to try and gain back control. 

Eric, if you want a Hot Top go buy a Hot Top, if you want a Gene get a Gene, but don't be mad at Joe for building a machine that seems to be pretty successful on its own at a relatively aggressive price point but not to your personal preferences.  I'm guessing that of the Behmor owners out there only a small percentage are looking for anything other than a larger capacity, low budget home coffee roaster and Joe has produced just that.

Kudos to Joe for keeping your cool!   8)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on April 25, 2012, 09:02:40 AM

It's not my part to enlighten you Eric. 

Don't worry - you didn't accomplish it, not even by accident.

As for costing more, Behmor II could cost Hottop money, maybe even a bit more - the name is already established in our community and that has value. If I go from a Rancilio or Gaggia to a Quick Mill or Alex espresso machine, I expect that advanced capabilities will carry additional costs.

Maybe the market for premium home roasters is met fully by Hottop and Gene Cafe already.  I know I wanted a Behmor (V. 1) enough that I passed on the sub $200 home roasters and was saving towards $300 for a new roaster when Dan Brewer offered his Behmor for sale here which I bought.

After using it and trying the methods found on familiar web sites, I find it to be functional but missing some of that user input that makes a hobby more fun.  I know several people who own a Behmor as well. Being able to add some heat at a critical point of the roast (30 second Turbo mode maybe?) would solve the baked beans dilemma that happens on occasion.  Other friends of mine in the area use Hottop roasters while others use something else entirely.

My view of the market isn't the big picture, but it is part of the picture.  I appreciate your comments more Peter when you respect that.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: hankua on April 25, 2012, 09:08:06 AM
One thing about the Behmor that comes to mind " if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Why would Joe change anything when the Behmor is the best roaster in it's price range and some of the first units are still in operation? If you want to mod the Behmor; go ahead and trick it out. If you want manual control of the heat and fan; it's already been done; but the manufacturer is wise to stay with the model that's been proven over time.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on April 25, 2012, 09:23:37 AM
No reason to be snarky Eric.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on April 25, 2012, 09:34:37 AM
No reason to be snarky Eric.

Good advice from the head snark.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 25, 2012, 10:24:41 AM
Let me try this one more time.

What we all, that being HT, Behmor 1600 etc etc... did last year or the year before has zero, squat and zilch with today. Rules applicable to that time are/may no longer applicable to today when a new program or design is involved. You can ship previously approved products BUT not one's with changes of consequence such as adding dials, thermocouples, programs or similar without receiving NEW approvals which are rated, judged, tested etc under the latest rules/ regs etc.

Unfortunately many times the safety houses only tell you these things AFTER the fact, not before so retooling of retoolings may be necessary both of which take time. It could be as simple as adjusting the location of a fan, the direction it draws in hot air vs. cool or something more complex, all overcomeable in time but none at the snap of a finger.

After all of that you then need to get insurance under the current mindset of the insurance companies, not the mindset of 6 weeks ago or two years ago.. today's mindset. That too evolves like those of the safety houses.

Let me give you a direct example, the side panel w/ fan we added. The small DC fan being plugged into a socket, that was already on the system board, adding 45 small breather holes, and 4 screw holes for securing said fan to the side panel, required two years from the time of concept to approval.

Point is..what appears to be and is an extremely easy add-on was anything but easy, simple or quick. Now try adding new motors, PCB, thermocouples, controls etc., while at the same testing for the changes in dynamics because each change facilitates a possible other change, that was unintended and negative to the desired outcome. Think finger in the dike, plug one hole only to create another.

In closing I'm a business person and I want to do nothing short of kicking my competitors asses, leaving them OTRD while working to meet the wishes/ desires of our customers both new and old.. but sometimes getting to that requires years of work and redesign while at the same time fielding SOS comments.. and I don't mean same ol' ----

Eric this is nothing against you, we all have our wants and desires..let me do my job, a job I take very seriously
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on April 25, 2012, 11:58:07 AM
No reason to be snarky Eric.

Good advice from the head snark.

I wouldn't give that post the time of day, except to encourage you to get a better understanding of snark.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on April 25, 2012, 12:09:02 PM
No reason to be snarky Eric.

Good advice from the head snark.

I wouldn't give that post the time of day, except to encourage you to get a better understanding of snark.

Yep, that's exactly what I was referring to - thank you for clarifying the definition of snarky Peter.  ;D
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on April 25, 2012, 12:22:30 PM
No reason to be snarky Eric.

Good advice from the head snark.

I wouldn't give that post the time of day, except to encourage you to get a better understanding of snark.

Yep, that's exactly what I was referring to - thank you for clarifying the definition of snarky Peter.  ;D

Then we're good, my mellowing friend.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on April 25, 2012, 12:34:58 PM
No reason to be snarky Eric.


Good advice from the head snark.


I wouldn't give that post the time of day, except to encourage you to get a better understanding of snark.


Yep, that's exactly what I was referring to - thank you for clarifying the definition of snarky Peter.  ;D


Then we're good, my mellowing friend.


Getting mellower by the day.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsP989jIWNU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsP989jIWNU#ws)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on April 25, 2012, 01:10:11 PM
Eric, you could always design one yourself as well, you seem to have all the answers.  Give it a shot, it's real easy as you said, make yourself a million.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on April 25, 2012, 01:36:38 PM
How is Gort at making less than a full pot on automatic?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ray T on April 25, 2012, 02:40:38 PM
In case we snarkly  forgot what the thread is about http://www.behmor.com/docs/Behmor-Brazen-Features-Data-4.17.12.pdf (http://www.behmor.com/docs/Behmor-Brazen-Features-Data-4.17.12.pdf)

I GORTA get one of these puppies.

Another WINNER congrats Joe.   
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jspain on April 25, 2012, 04:34:29 PM
How is Gort at making less than a full pot on automatic?

Tex,

They were only making full pots at the show but it can do less than full pots. Does quality go down on a partial pot? Don't know but I'll be first in line to get one when she hits the market in June/July.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on April 25, 2012, 05:15:26 PM
Let me try this one more time.

This part had me feeling warm and fuzzy till this:

Eric this is nothing against you, we all have our wants and desires..let me do my job, a job I take very seriously

I had to get out of the water - I spotted a snark.

You can do your job as a supplier with or without my permission.  I am just a guy who sooner rather than later will be spending just under $1,000 on a roaster for the hobby I enjoy - thought I would try to spent it with you, but I will do my job as a shopper and keep on looking.

Good luck with Gort.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on April 25, 2012, 09:01:22 PM
How is Gort at making less than a full pot on automatic?

Tex,

They were only making full pots at the show but it can do less than full pots. Does quality go down on a partial pot? Don't know but I'll be first in line to get one when she hits the market in June/July.

And I'll be right behind you in that line. I've been telling everyone that the full volume boiler needs to be directly over the filter basket for years. I even drew up a rough diagram how to make it using a PID with OT1 & OT2 to manage brew temp and water discharge. I even built a prototype three years ago that worked - sort of. I used a 2-way solenoid valve to release the hot water when it reach the preset limit; the only problem was the heat kept destroying solenoid coils. I lost interest before I ironed the bugs out, but I saw the design had the makings of a winner. So I'm curious to see how close Joe's design is to what I was trying to do.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on April 26, 2012, 01:35:18 PM
Nice try Tex, you are not getting royalties  ;D  and if you do, I want royalties for my Redneck Roaster I designed before his 1600  durnit!!

0n that though, good question, how does it do on partial pots, and realistically how few cups can it really be done with.    Im assuming it's a 12 cupper,  what if I only want a cup for myself, can I realistically do say 4 cups in it (yes 4 cups in a pot = 1 of my cups) or is that really pushing it?

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 26, 2012, 05:06:06 PM
The system is an 8 cup/ 40 ounce and our tests show the results are best at 4 cups or greater. To have attempted 12 cup would have made the upper portion unmanageable and made it impossible to fit on a counter without taking up the counter. As it was the primary engineers wanted 1L liter system and we pushed it to 1.2L. I personally did the calculations for the reservoir then added a 1/2 shell around the unit and any larger would have definitely created a host of issues.

We've also found the design of the carafe maintains the integrity of the brew for quite sometime with no ill effects. I've allowed a full pot to sit (testing) for 24 hours, microwave a mug and found it to be still quite good. Then again I'm no Q Cupper either.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on April 26, 2012, 05:35:54 PM
...I've allowed a full pot to sit (testing) for 24 hours, microwave a mug and found it to be still quite good. Then again I'm no Q Cupper either.

Joe, tell me you didn't do that.  You are yanking our collective chain <grins>...

B|Java
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on April 26, 2012, 05:49:39 PM
Aha!!  You just spilled the beans!!   (pun not intentionally intended).   If he is letting it set for 24 hours before drinking then that tells me he got a DoD contract and is going to sell the coffee maker to the Navy!!

Aaron   ;D
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on April 26, 2012, 06:08:37 PM
As painful as it may be for me and make others cringe, it's all apart of testing.  8)


...I've allowed a full pot to sit (testing) for 24 hours, microwave a mug and found it to be still quite good. Then again I'm no Q Cupper either.

Joe, tell me you didn't do that.  You are yanking our collective chain <grins>...

B|Java
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on May 15, 2012, 04:58:14 PM
I stumbled across this website, [url]http://brazencoffeebrewer.com/,[/url] ([url]http://brazencoffeebrewer.com/,[/url]) today while seeing if anyone is taking pre-orders for the BraZen.  I have to admit that I'm getting antsy and am eager to see this shipping, though I know that any extra time that is taken to make sure that any last minute production problems are ironed out are worth it (speaking from a general production perspective as one working for electronics manufacturers, not with any specific knowledge or speculation regarding the BraZen).

I'm not sure if this is a Behmor website or from a third party, but the website offers a discount code when orders can be placed for the BraZen if you send them an email through the web link with a US address.


It isn't a Behmor site
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on May 15, 2012, 07:13:52 PM
So, what're the chances of getting a group buy for the first release?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Richdel on May 20, 2012, 05:09:08 PM
I might be interested in a group buy....
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on May 20, 2012, 05:24:23 PM
We ran that subject past Joe at the SCAA, and he pretty much said that group buys weren't a part of the plan.  He listed a few good reasons, which he can post up here if he chooses.  I just wanted to help members to not have any unrealistic expectations.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on May 21, 2012, 07:19:40 AM
Sorry for not addressing this sooner but our dog has been diganosed w/ lymphoma so my energies were focused on that last week and through the weekend in the hopes of saving her young (5+) life.

That said...

While not getting into specifics .. I tried this with the roaster for a select group who assisted me in the design, test etc.. and due to one person's inability to keep that "special" to himself (posted about it on the web) I received a slew/ flurry etc. of emails expressing major unhappiness and in one instance a very ugly phone call.

As much as I'd love to do this, that experience dissuaded me from ever doing it again. Yes, it was that bad.

My apologies but hope you can understand.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jspain on May 21, 2012, 07:30:25 AM
Can't blame you Joe!
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on May 21, 2012, 08:18:34 AM
I figure it this way; if Gort sells for $200, and the group buy would knock off $20, great...  but if I really want Gort on my countertop, and there is no group buy, I'm still buying it at $200.  Put another way, as much as I like saving a buck, if I want it I'll get it, discount or no discount.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on May 21, 2012, 08:50:21 AM
I agree with Peter, the small savings wouldn't trigger my buy impulse. But an act of camaraderie might go a long way in that direction. I'll still probably be one of the first to buy Joe's new brewer, regardless of any goodwill gestures (or lack there of).
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on May 21, 2012, 09:16:20 AM
Thanks..

As to Bailey.. she made it through through the weekend when there was a distinct possibility she wouldn't. Her spirits as of last night were good and for the first time since last Wednesday she ate (about 2 tbl) solid food on her own. She's a little over 5 and I'm hoping to give her an oppotunity at life.. Hopefully one good omen was the Doctor is from Dayton (my hometown) , a graduate of my favorite college school and had the following hanging on her wall.. Made her an instant fan of mine so much so I'm roasting her coffee and will have a customized brewer made sporting a special logo..
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on May 21, 2012, 09:41:49 AM
Interesting quotation, but shouldn't that be Mark Twain that Woody was quoting when referring to Archie Griffen? You'd think someone smart enough to be a vet would understand the value of proper attribution.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on May 21, 2012, 09:45:17 AM
Instead of looking for blind deceit why not view as it was intended.. Woody making a comment

I was in great spirits because of my dog and that little wall hanging made it a little more complete BUT for some unknown reason you had to find reason to f--k it up.

By the way..Forbes and others attribute it to Woody.. and show Eisenhower made something similar but at the end of the day who gives a damn..  http://thoughts.forbes.com/thoughts/fight-woody-hayes-it-isnt-the (http://thoughts.forbes.com/thoughts/fight-woody-hayes-it-isnt-the)

Thanks for f--king up a perfectly good vibe..
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on May 21, 2012, 12:10:21 PM
Joe, will you be taking any advance orders, in case people want to plop down their payola and stake a place in line?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jspain on May 21, 2012, 12:52:37 PM
Joe,

Patti and I have two dogs. We were never blessed with children so the pets in our lives are our kids! I know what you're going through with your dog. They are family and it hurts when they hurt. Good luck with the pup!  jim
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Nucer on May 21, 2012, 01:05:24 PM
I feel for you Joe.  Keep the pup as long as the quality of life is there but know when to let him/her go.  I had to put a dog down almost 4 years ago and I still feel the pain.  She is in a better place with no pain.

My prays are with you and your dog.

(Still missing that dog in Benbrook, Texas)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on May 21, 2012, 04:58:32 PM
Joe, hang in there.  Losing pets can be very hard.  I took a lightning strike about 4 years ago and it killed all my lizards.  People say big deal but they don't understand the bond a person can have with a pet, yes even a lowly lizard or bird or dog.

Animals are way smarter than humans in many aspects, especially some humans from mid southern states that look like a bulls schlong.  With that said, do know that your dog knows you are doing everything to help and she knows the love you have for her.

The condition your dog has is not one that is going to go away like a cold or flu.  Knowing this, please and yes this can be very hard, but be respectful what is best for her and not necessarily what is best for you.  If it gets to the point where she is suffering and there is little quality of life, let her pass as she would want to instead of selfishly keeping her around in pain and misery for your sake.  She expects you to do the right thing for her, even if that thing means you have to meet again at the rainbow bridge.   If you want someone to talk to, please feel free to call me at anytime.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jimec3 on May 22, 2012, 04:44:31 AM
I dunno what I'd do if I lost my two tiny boys.....Hope things turn out well....and ignore Tex, we all do.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: John F on May 22, 2012, 04:24:51 PM
I've seen some jabs at ole Joe..

I'm trying to figure out how to ask my question without it sounding like I'm poking because I don't intend it, here goes.

Whats wrong with a special price for a select group?

Whoever complained because people helping test got a special price are idiots.

Sales, discounts, promotional offers... I dont see as how they are promises to future buyers of anything at all.

Granted I think the price for this looks very attractive as is and I doubt a promo is a deal maker/killer at all I just don't understand the logic of if one person got a special deal somebody else thinks everybody deserves it.

As for sick pets, it's a brutal experience for sure.


Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on May 23, 2012, 01:28:29 PM
I have to agree with you there john.    Some people believe they should get something for nothing, or if someone gets a break for whatever reason, they automatically deserve one as well.

WHen you look at this entire 'coffee group', not just our little gcbc niche but the other 'niches' as well, a VERY significant number of the members tend to learn towards the 'im special' category and yes, I can see a childish tantrum being thrown because they didn't get special pricing that they believe they are entitled to.

It would be nice to see a discount but I can understand fully Joe not wanting to go down that road and just avoid the drama and screeching from the crybabies out there.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on May 23, 2012, 07:30:04 PM

It would be nice to see a discount but I can understand fully Joe not wanting to go down that road and just avoid the drama and screeching from the crybabies out there.

Aaron

I would try not to be the crybaby, but...   if I was running a retail coffee place, online or B&M, trying to sell goods at retail or close to it, and they guy selling me the goods decides to offer it to hundreds of coffee-geeks at wholesale, I wouldn't be happy either.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: John F on May 23, 2012, 07:46:50 PM

I would try not to be the crybaby, but...   if I was running a retail coffee place, online or B&M, trying to sell goods at retail or close to it, and they guy selling me the goods decides to offer it to hundreds of coffee-geeks at wholesale, I wouldn't be happy either.

Is the machine in a price restricted distribution system?

I've noticed that certain things like video game systems cost exactly the same no matter where you buy them. Most things are not that strictly price regulated but if Gort is going to be sold exclusively for one rate no matter where you buy it then I understand...
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on May 23, 2012, 07:58:34 PM

I would try not to be the crybaby, but...   if I was running a retail coffee place, online or B&M, trying to sell goods at retail or close to it, and they guy selling me the goods decides to offer it to hundreds of coffee-geeks at wholesale, I wouldn't be happy either.

Is the machine in a price restricted distribution system?

I've noticed that certain things like video game systems cost exactly the same no matter where you buy them. Most things are not that strictly price regulated but if Gort is going to be sold exclusively for one rate no matter where you buy it then I understand...

I can only speculate, which I should know better, but still do it...

If Gort's going to retail for $200, and I (as an online retailer) pay $160 for it, and have to tie up money for a dozed or two at a time, (or even if they drop-ship and I don't have to carry inventory) and all of a sudden it's offered to hundreds of coffee-geeks online for anywhere close to $160, I wouldn't be a happy camper.  It's like this; I'm trying to make a living selling coffee stuff and the manufacturer decides to sell it cheap, where does that leave me?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: John F on May 23, 2012, 08:22:06 PM
It sounds strange to ask this but how have sales and coupons ever worked in the past?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on May 24, 2012, 02:15:17 PM
So then you don't carry his product peter.   They can buy it direct from him, and Maybe then.... go back to your site and get the filters, the paper, the coffee, the stir rods, etc etc. or go somewhere else, it's hard to say......  Or you can carry his product, not make a hell of a lot on it, but since they are there, all that stuff I just mentioned, they are buying straight from you, at the same time.

Have you ever heard of a loss leader?   Not to mention I seriously doubt that every single item he will ever sell, is going to happen in that one time 'deal' he did.

If your business is struggling that bad that one item is going to put it under, perhaps you should rethink your business plan, or let it go under, because you are not doing very well.

Just some thoughts.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: blzrfn on May 24, 2012, 02:48:17 PM
There's two reasons I wouldn't discount if I were Joe. 

First of all we are his target audience.  If he sells directly to the people that are most likely to buy them then he pisses off the people that may carry this brewer or other products.

Secondly by offering a discount you are saying that the product you are selling isn't actually worth what you are selling it for.  I am a firm believer in avoiding offering coupons and discounts because although it may drive up volume it also stalls sells afterwards as people wait for another deal on your product. 

If you price your product correctly to begin with and make agreements with your re-sellers to maintain a minimum advertised price you will maintain a high level of sales (and profits) as long as you have a great product and good marketing. 
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on May 24, 2012, 04:23:06 PM
Then again, puting a product out at a discount, to reward those who may have supported you / assisted you, or even your target audience, to get some out there to get it 'known' and commented on with real life experiences is also a good way to get it going as well.

I wasn't going to get a technivorn because it just seemed a bit high to me.  When I seen it go on a nice sale at a website, I said, well hell, I always wanted one, and now they are on sale, im gonna get it at that price.  Some things I am going to get whether they are on sale or not.  Other things I pretty much am not interested in, sale or not.

Again, so you sold me a techie on the cheap.  You didn't make a hell of a lot of money off it, but now that I DO have it, I need the filters, and cleaning stuff, etc, so now have to buy that from you too.  Passing up the big bucks on that one item, got me 'on the hook' and now you can make your money off me on the 'little items' I will need now that I do have that 'big' item.

A good salesman also looks down the road, not just at the immediate sale or item in front of them.

I really don't need another coffee brewer, even this neat nifty new fandangled one.  I really like what it promises so far, but is that 'neatness' enough to push me over the 'jesus aaron you have how many now!!!'  threshold?  A sale or discount very well might make it worth while.

No Im not mooching for a sale but just stating as an example.  Im going to get one anyways because I am getting into tea now as well, and I really like the pick you temp option it has.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on May 24, 2012, 04:38:24 PM
I wasn't going to get a technivorn because it just seemed a bit high to me.  When I seen it go on a nice sale at a website, I said, well hell, I always wanted one, and now they are on sale, im gonna get it at that price.  Some things I am going to get whether they are on sale or not.  Other things I pretty much am not interested in, sale or not.
Aaron

But the difference there is that it was the retailer at the website that decided to have the sale, not the manufacturer.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on May 24, 2012, 04:47:56 PM
point taken peter, but in the end, I paid the same no matter who put the discount on it.  I still need the other stuff to go with etc.

Also as said before, it's the launch of his new product, it's not like he would be undercutting his distributors all the time. Eitherway he is not doing it so ...

The original argument was I believe purchasers / customers bitching, your / our arguement turned into distributors complaining. Each has it's merits and the scenario does not fit exactly the same over each instance so we really can't say this is this way with customers and assume it's the same with the distributors.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on May 24, 2012, 04:48:22 PM
The only way it can become a viable product is to be picked up by a mass seller like Costco, who'll then undercut all other retailers. Maybe by offering deals to members of forums with thousands of members, the product could pick up some marketing momentum; otherwise how many folks are going to shell out a premium price for a machine that so few are talking about?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on May 24, 2012, 04:50:48 PM
Well Tex, the Behmore was not a 'mainstream' product.   In honesty none of this 'stuff' really is.  It's a niche item selling to a niche crowd.   Not the costco / walmart crowd.  He did very well with the behmore selling to a niche crowd, as many other manufacturers did.   I don't see how you can justify that the only way to be successful is if mass marketing picks up on it.

Also, how can you say nobody is talking about it, we have been doing so for the past 10 pages, or are your meds wearing off again?

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on May 24, 2012, 07:12:07 PM
Well Tex, the Behmore was not a 'mainstream' product.   In honesty none of this 'stuff' really is.  It's a niche item selling to a niche crowd.   Not the costco / walmart crowd.  He did very well with the behmore selling to a niche crowd, as many other manufacturers did.   I don't see how you can justify that the only way to be successful is if mass marketing picks up on it.

Also, how can you say nobody is talking about it, we have been doing so for the past 10 pages, or are your meds wearing off again?

Aaron


Believe it or not Aaron, every one of us could buy the new brewer and the new operation would still go tits up. And Costco doesn't just do mainstream stuff; they do niche stuff like this (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11708764) & this (http://www.costco.com/Browse/ProductSet.aspx?Prodid=11762745).
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jimec3 on May 25, 2012, 06:59:51 AM
Well Tex, the Behmore was not a 'mainstream' product.   In honesty none of this 'stuff' really is.  It's a niche item selling to a niche crowd.   Not the costco / walmart crowd.  He did very well with the behmore selling to a niche crowd, as many other manufacturers did.   I don't see how you can justify that the only way to be successful is if mass marketing picks up on it.

Also, how can you say nobody is talking about it, we have been doing so for the past 10 pages, or are your meds wearing off again?

Aaron


Tex LOVES him some Costco.

Personally I avoid things from the large box stores.  I don't support thier homoginization of quality or thier business practices as a seller or a buyer. 
I know that a weber grill at walmart and a weber grill from a "weber grill retailer" are not the same.  In order to enter the walmart market quality is sacrificed for price and profit.  If it were me buying a new 200 dollar brewer I would avoid box stores and deal with the community that I have developed a relationship with, online or locally.  I pay extra for that.

Believe it or not Aaron, every one of us could buy the new brewer and the new operation would still go tits up. And Costco doesn't just do mainstream stuff; they do niche stuff like this ([url]http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11708764[/url]) & this ([url]http://www.costco.com/Browse/ProductSet.aspx?Prodid=11762745[/url]).
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on May 25, 2012, 07:25:33 AM
...
Personally I avoid things from the large box stores.  I don't support thier homoginization of quality or thier business practices as a seller or a buyer.  .  .  If it were me buying a new 200 dollar brewer I would avoid box stores and deal with the community that I have developed a relationship with, online or locally.  I pay extra for that.

...

+1.  My car is unfamiliar with parking lots at Walmart and Costco. 
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on May 25, 2012, 07:29:57 AM
jimec3.  I understand what you are saying about the 'weber' grill as an example being less quality at walmart than at BBQ store.  Can you prove that?  Do you have any links to substantiate that?

Reason I ask is, im curious if this IS true or just more urban myth and part of the I hate big box frenzy.    Also, let's say *I* am Weber,  I sell my products at a set quality level, because that IS what Weber is.  Now if walmart gets one of my knock offs and sells it as walmart brand or tries to knock it off, callig it wobbler or whatever, ok because it's being sold as THAT, but I am NOT giving them a piece of crap, or something that failed MY own QA tests to sell with MY name on it!!

First that opens me up to liability issues, and secondly I do NOT want them selling a piece of shit with MY name on it.  If you get a piece of garbage from walmart, most people are not going to say oh wait i got it from walmart that is why it was a piece of crap... they are going to say. wow  WEBER is a piece of crap, and that is what I want to avoid at all costs.    Letting a store sell inferior products with my name on it kind of hurts myself.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: MMW on May 25, 2012, 07:35:17 AM
The only way it can become a viable product is to be picked up by a mass seller like Costco, who'll then undercut all other retailers. Maybe by offering deals to members of forums with thousands of members, the product could pick up some marketing momentum; otherwise how many folks are going to shell out a premium price for a machine that so few are talking about?

Or Williams-Sonoma...add an "exclusive" feature and add 30% ;D

(Now with even more accurate scoop!)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: ScareYourPassenger on May 25, 2012, 07:39:45 AM
Weber may not be a great example. The TVs sold at Walmart are. I went shopping or a 37" LCD a year ago and found that Walmart and some other bit chains had models that had no reviews because they were not a a general offering but were made for Walmart.

I try to avoid Walmart but Costco is on my list of stores I visit regularly. It isn't for the gizmos. In fact I have never bought a large electrical appliance from them. They do have high quality meats, real sugar cokes from Mexico and the freshest tuna steaks I have bean able to find. Whole foods wasn't even close to as tasty.

There is a lot to said for moving inventory quickly when something needs to be fresh.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on May 25, 2012, 07:52:23 AM
That's the thing,  a manufacturer may make items specifically FOR a big retailer with lower specs, but they will make it as a different model number.   The weber might be model 1000X  but the cheaper walmart one might be the 1000W.

This is how a lot of the stores say we will not be undersold, we will match any price.  Because  they are the only ones selling THAT specific model.  Let's say you find the costco one the 1000C for ten bucks cheaper, wally world will say, oh but that's the C model we are the W model so we are still cheaper.

For what it is worth though, Jimca is correct in that the big stores have cheaper shit, but its a different model, NOT the same model made cheaper.  It's a play on words and semantics for the most part, he is correct though on that aspect.  This is what they hope you don't catch when you buy their specific substandard model.

Oh and I refuse to EVER shop at walmart because of a few things, one of them being them supporting groups trying to ban fishing.
Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: MGLloyd on May 31, 2012, 12:11:43 PM
Believe it or not Aaron, every one of us could buy the new brewer and the new operation would still go tits up. And Costco doesn't just do mainstream stuff; they do niche stuff like this ([url]http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11708764[/url]) & this ([url]http://www.costco.com/Browse/ProductSet.aspx?Prodid=11762745[/url]).


Wow, that cordless stirrer looks very interesting for the times I do stovetop stockpot roasting.....
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: milowebailey on May 31, 2012, 12:31:08 PM
Where can I get one?  Google turns up nothing for shopping results
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on May 31, 2012, 01:32:13 PM
Looks more gimmic than useful actually.   You burn something in that or do one cheese or egg dish and you are HATIN' it trying to clean that thing with all those corners and ridges.   Non stick my ass, there is no such thing when you burn cheese onto something  :-\

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jimec3 on May 31, 2012, 02:17:57 PM
So Aaron you basically contradicted yourself.  If a hoover vacuum sold at walmart is different than the one from a hoover distributor with the only external difference being a "w" then you agree they are selling an inferior product through the box stores.  Walmart is leveraging buying power to force the reduction in quality.  The problem for John Q Customer is that externally he doesn’t know the difference.  He bought the hoover quality that he has grown to appreciate over the years.  He thinks he will be able to replace impellers or motors and belts but the parts aren’t available at his vacuum repair shop.
I think hoover in the case is doing itself a disservice.  In the long run quality wins.  Customers will only buy so many disposable items before looking for something better.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on May 31, 2012, 02:45:49 PM
I disagree with anyone saying Costco sells inferior merchandise. I've been a member since 1983 and IMO they upgrade products they sell, as evidenced by their 100% satisfaction guarantee on most things (computers, televisions and similar electronic items being the exceptions).,
Title: Meet Gort!
Post by: jimec3 on May 31, 2012, 03:21:13 PM
So they stand behind the mustard and underpants but not high dollar electronics? Maybe in Texas it's bigger AND better.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on May 31, 2012, 04:03:24 PM
Why do I even try to explain this... well let's give it a shot.

Most manufacturers have several 'tiers' of products.

The best
The really good
The run of the mill.
The ok.
then some even go as far as
The mediocre
The cheapo
The walmart.

If I am selling a BMW.... which basically made it's 'name' with absolute quality,  I am not going to entertain a 'walmart bmw' cheaper, crappier because that would dilute my 'bmw' name.   Some places will NOT sacrifice quality for the sake of a sale.   On that, yes I know there are 'tiers' as well in the Beemer world, but most of it is not necessarily quality, but goodies / power / bells and whistles type stuff.

Other companies now have many tiers of products including the cheap crap.  Look at hard drives.... the green labels are the slow crap you use for big files,not very expensive, not very fast, not very big buffer, use them for archiving... the black is better... the xxx is the high performance... as an example.

I may sell my green for 100 bucks.... walmart may say, hey, if we buy 1 million of them, and want to sell them for 95 or 90, what we do to 'make them doable' at that price.  I say well we can drop the buffer a bit or not put them in the shrink sealed wrap, they are plain jane... or whatever.... we will call it the green95W model instead of the green 95model to show those slight differences.      It's already a lower end model... the green.    Now I am not going to let them cheapen my black or top of the line model because that performance that is essentially guaranteed when people buy 'black' or 'caviar' or whatever I am not going to sacrifice, THAT is my reputation there.

You are not going to see wallmart selling cheap  Rolex watches,   you might see them selling cheaper timex watches.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: ScareYourPassenger on May 31, 2012, 07:53:59 PM
Then there is Bose making crap products for high prices and not selling cheaper products even though they are not worth the paper cones they are made of.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on May 31, 2012, 10:30:43 PM
Interesting thread about Costco: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=235156 (https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=235156)

And if you'd like a nice & cheap product that Costco specializes in, try this: http://www.costco.com/Common/Category.aspx?ec=BC-EC36351-Cat49547&pos=0&whse=BC&topnav=&cat=90001&eCat=BC (http://www.costco.com/Common/Category.aspx?ec=BC-EC36351-Cat49547&pos=0&whse=BC&topnav=&cat=90001&eCat=BC)|108|49547|90001&lang=en-US
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on June 01, 2012, 03:20:33 PM
It's funny that you say that about Bose.  Sony used to be that way too, everyone would go  OOOHH  sony, and pay huge prices for the name, but when you looked at the specs on their stereo equipment .vs. many of the other name brands, jvc, hitachi, etc,  many times the specs were a lot lower, but the price was way higher, just for the name 'sony'.   Nakamichi was the same way, big bucks for pretty crappy stuff really.

I know bose was one of the names that people went goo goo over, they tried to act like bose was 'the' standard.  I never did like their stuff, their speakers were very poor performers actually, they gobbled a lot of power for their relative output.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on June 01, 2012, 03:44:48 PM

I know bose was one of the names that people went goo goo over, they tried to act like bose was 'the' standard.  I never did like their stuff, their speakers were very poor performers actually, they gobbled a lot of power for their relative output.

Aaron

Bose stuff sounds great to people who don't know what great sounds like.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on June 01, 2012, 04:03:49 PM

I know bose was one of the names that people went goo goo over, they tried to act like bose was 'the' standard.  I never did like their stuff, their speakers were very poor performers actually, they gobbled a lot of power for their relative output.

Aaron

Bose stuff sounds great to people who don't know what great sounds like.

You could draw a similar analogy to Starbucks & a good specialty coffee, couldn't you?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on June 01, 2012, 04:11:16 PM
Good point Tex.  Just because they say it's good doesn't make it so.
The problem is people don't know what they don't know so having no other basis to judge it on, or just being too lazy to actually do a little research themselves, just push the "I believe" button and buy it right up.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: grinderz on June 01, 2012, 04:39:30 PM
I'm gonna highjack this highjack and ask for some opinions on buying a used tuner/receiver for the family room. Our old one is starting to cut out all the time. So if y'all were slumming on craigslist for a good but maybe older tuner what would you be looking for? I'd need to run a CD player and a computer audio out signal to it. Good AM reception would be nice, too.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: RobertL on June 01, 2012, 11:08:55 PM
behmor: Brazen .. August 23rd to coincide with my 58th..

Original Tweet: [url]http://twitter.com/behmor/status/208601114529107969[/url] ([url]http://twitter.com/behmor/status/208601114529107969[/url])


I wonder how many will be available on the first release. I imagine they will sell out quickly, maybe Joe will let us pre-order ours.  :)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: milowebailey on June 01, 2012, 11:13:23 PM
I'm gonna highjack this highjack and ask for some opinions on buying a used tuner/receiver for the family room. Our old one is starting to cut out all the time. So if y'all were slumming on craigslist for a good but maybe older tuner what would you be looking for? I'd need to run a CD player and a computer audio out signal to it. Good AM reception would be nice, too.

I'm a vintage component fan.  Vintage Crown amp DC150 with a IC150 and efficient speakers is all you need..... true analog audio....

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/3017640491.html (http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/3017640491.html)

I have a Crown DC150 driving my vintage JBL 18" sub at home.... more base than a 1000 watt set up you can buy new today.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: grinderz on June 02, 2012, 04:23:44 PM
I'm gonna highjack this highjack and ask for some opinions on buying a used tuner/receiver for the family room. Our old one is starting to cut out all the time. So if y'all were slumming on craigslist for a good but maybe older tuner what would you be looking for? I'd need to run a CD player and a computer audio out signal to it. Good AM reception would be nice, too.

I'm a vintage component fan.  Vintage Crown amp DC150 with a IC150 and efficient speakers is all you need..... true analog audio....

[url]http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/3017640491.html[/url] ([url]http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/3017640491.html[/url])

I have a Crown DC150 driving my vintage JBL 18" sub at home.... more base than a 1000 watt set up you can buy new today.

I think that might be a little more collectable that I was hoping to pay for.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on June 02, 2012, 04:57:51 PM
I'm gonna highjack this highjack and ask for some opinions on buying a used tuner/receiver for the family room. Our old one is starting to cut out all the time. So if y'all were slumming on craigslist for a good but maybe older tuner what would you be looking for? I'd need to run a CD player and a computer audio out signal to it. Good AM reception would be nice, too.

I'm a vintage component fan.  Vintage Crown amp DC150 with a IC150 and efficient speakers is all you need..... true analog audio....

[url]http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/3017640491.html[/url] ([url]http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/ele/3017640491.html[/url])

I have a Crown DC150 driving my vintage JBL 18" sub at home.... more base than a 1000 watt set up you can buy new today.


Yeah right, just like grandpa drove his rusted out '54 Ford because he liked vintage stuff too? Grandma always called it being a skinflint!
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: ecc on June 02, 2012, 07:01:13 PM
Old Crown is nice.

I have and recommend Sony STR-DA333ES, really anything in the 90's Sony DAxES line.  At this point these things are super cheap, and frankly better than anything you could buy manufactured now without a serious budget.  Plenty of analog and digital inputs, surround modes, etc. and will be good for a few more decades at least. 

If you need speakers, stay away from the tuned port junk.  NHT makes super nice speakers at a good price.  I have the superOnes, and some superZeros, along with some banger subs (one is a pair of dual 12"ers on a bridged kilowatt Carver) that I picked up from a pre-internet analog recording studio. 

Ebay has tons of these available, the good gear stays around. 

Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: grinderz on June 02, 2012, 07:05:47 PM
Thanks ecc! That sounds like the kind of thing I'm interested in.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: milowebailey on June 02, 2012, 09:04:41 PM
I might have a Sony laying around up at the cabin.  I can check next weekend if I still have it if you want.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on June 03, 2012, 04:54:18 AM
carver, now THAT is an amp from hell!    I have a few of them around.  Good strong power and really hard to mess up.   Where the others would start to clip / distort and shut down ..hopefully... the carver magnetic field amp keeps on pumping.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: wsikes on June 03, 2012, 05:26:12 AM
I have a few of the old 70's era Sansui's laying around someplace.  Huge amplifiers inside them... talk about something that will blow your neighbor's windows out.  I could probably be talked into selling them if anybody is interested.  Two of them are the 9090 model and the other is even larger.  They will blow out your speakers if they are not made to handle serious audio.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: John F on June 03, 2012, 05:36:26 AM
I think my early days must have taken a toll on my hearing.

I listened to a Bose wave a few weeks ago and it sounded good to me. The outdoor speakers I liked were also Bose.

I have Starbucks ears...so shameful.  :(
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on June 03, 2012, 05:43:39 AM
I think my early days must have taken a toll on my hearing.

I listened to a Bose wave a few weeks ago and it sounded good to me. The outdoor speakers I liked were also Bose.

I have Starbucks ears...so shameful.  :(

+1.  I know I have hearing issues -- close to too many F-4s and -105s.  However, look at it this way John.  It is a rabbit hole that isn't even tempting for us.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on June 03, 2012, 05:47:49 AM
That's why we need stronger amps, to get past the hearing 'issues' we have.
30 years around screaming turbines, (and occasional screaming division officers) took it's toll on my hearing.

Then again I was the retard who had 1600 watts in his 83 Plymouth turismo back in the late 80's, before it really became popular to be audibly obnoxious on the road.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on June 03, 2012, 07:41:02 AM
I think my early days must have taken a toll on my hearing.

I listened to a Bose wave a few weeks ago and it sounded good to me. The outdoor speakers I liked were also Bose.

I have Starbucks ears...so shameful.  :(

Try shooting competitively with a Colt 45 ACP. My hearing in both the high and low ranges is such that even AM radio sounds good.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on June 03, 2012, 07:45:19 AM
Tex, I have a ruger blackhawk chambered in .30 cal carbine.  You want to talk about a loud ass gun... man that thing can make your ears ring.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on June 03, 2012, 11:07:25 AM
I think my early days must have taken a toll on my hearing.

I listened to a Bose wave a few weeks ago and it sounded good to me. The outdoor speakers I liked were also Bose.

I have Starbucks ears...so shameful.  :(


Try shooting competitively with a Colt 45 ACP. My hearing in both the high and low ranges is such that even AM radio sounds good.


Which is why a pair of these (http://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-E-Max-Profile-Electronic-Muffs/dp/B001B8ONZI) go with me to the range every time.

Of course, way back in the 50's when you were shooting competitively, nobody thought about hearing protection.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: grinderz on June 03, 2012, 01:16:36 PM
I'm religious about hearing protection. When I worked construction, I always had a pair of muffs on or just clamped on the top of my head if there was nothing loud going on. I still wear them when running any kind of power equipment, even just mowing the lawn. If I'm shooting, I double up with foam ear plugs AND muffs.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on June 03, 2012, 01:19:51 PM
grinderz I always wore my hearing protection in the engine room, the boiler room etc as well but I still took a hit on my hearing.  I wonder if sometimes a noise is just so loud it just goes right through you and does it's damage.

Here's something to consider,  driving with your car window open, the wind blowing across your ears,  it's low freq but how loud is that really?  I mean, all sound is is pressure waves or air movement right?   I wonder what kind of damage the wind blowing across your ears does.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: grinderz on June 03, 2012, 01:33:51 PM
I'm sure that open windows in cars can be a problem and even minor damage is cumulative over time. About your hearing loss, I suspect you are right. Hearing protection is very helpful, but damage can still occur in spite of it. Sound is actually transmitted through the bones in our heads, not just through direct impingement on the ear drum, and muffs don't protect against that if the noise is loud enough.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on June 03, 2012, 02:40:23 PM
I think my early days must have taken a toll on my hearing.

I listened to a Bose wave a few weeks ago and it sounded good to me. The outdoor speakers I liked were also Bose.

I have Starbucks ears...so shameful.  :(


Try shooting competitively with a Colt 45 ACP. My hearing in both the high and low ranges is such that even AM radio sounds good.


Which is why a pair of these ([url]http://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-E-Max-Profile-Electronic-Muffs/dp/B001B8ONZI[/url]) go with me to the range every time.

Of course, way back in the 50's when you were shooting competitively, nobody thought about hearing protection.


Actually, it was the early 60's; but you're right - at the company level no one was told to use ear protection when qualifying. After I made the pistol team and began a 20+ year career of shooting competitively, I did wear both plugs & ear muffs; but the damage was already done. I did get a 20% military disability for my hearing loss, but I'd happily give all the money back to not have the constant LOUD ringing in my ears!
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on June 03, 2012, 02:50:18 PM
sometimes I have ringing but most of the times it's more of a buzz.  Add that to the migraines and yeppers, my life is fun fun fun!!

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on June 03, 2012, 02:57:17 PM
sometimes I have ringing but most of the times it's more of a buzz.  Add that to the migraines and yeppers, my life is fun fun fun!!

Aaron

Can you imagine what the hearing is like for the swabbies in the turrets of an Iowa-class battleship when those 16" guns were salvoed?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ascholten on June 03, 2012, 03:01:05 PM
actually Tex it was more of a pressure wave that was set off, no super loud bang, just a literal sucking as the oxygen got burned.
I was on a battle ship for a short time during my electrician days and whenever we fired the guns, we would have to light off a few extra boilers because if the BT on watch was not careful, it would suck the fires out of the boiler when the gun went off.  Having extras online helped prevent the big problem of no boilers which would then equal in about 30 seconds, no electricity.

Aaron
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: grinderz on August 11, 2012, 03:01:11 PM
UPDATE!! I figured out what the problem with our old Pioneer tuner was. The problem was that I'm a audio-ignoramus. I had the line from the entertainment PC going into the phono input on the tuner. Everyone over 45 is probably thinking "what a dummy," but I didn't realize that the phonograph line has an extra amplifier section so I was getting clipping due to the input signal being too high. We're rocking out to Roy Rogers (the Cajun blues slide guitar player - not the cowboy) as I type this.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: pgde on August 12, 2012, 04:13:09 PM
Any update on release date?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on August 12, 2012, 04:33:22 PM
Keep an eye on Twitter for current info:

"Joe Behm@behmor, Brazen reports r issued pre-production and sub-assembly work beginning w/ full production set 2 start tonight.Inspections slated 4 nxt Mondy..."
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: RobertL on August 19, 2012, 08:21:13 AM
For those who don't visit coffee geek or follow Joe on twitter. He posted this link to twitter on CG.

https://twitter.com/behmor/status/237160748294496256/photo/1
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: hankua on August 28, 2012, 10:13:44 AM
The Brazens are on the way, who are you thinking of ordering from?
And who is  http://brazencoffeebrewer.com/ (http://brazencoffeebrewer.com/) ?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on August 28, 2012, 10:44:22 AM
The Brazens are on the way, who are you thinking of ordering from?
And who is  [url]http://brazencoffeebrewer.com/[/url] ([url]http://brazencoffeebrewer.com/[/url]) ?


I am sure that is Joe's site.  Registered via proxy:  http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/brazenbrewer.com (http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/brazenbrewer.com)

The CoffeeProject keeps a list of those who want one.  He drove up to Oakland (from Hollywood) when the Behmor first came out to be the first to have his hands on the roaster.  Not sure if he is planning that with the Brazen.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on August 28, 2012, 11:23:32 AM
I'm surprised they're not taking prepaid orders?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on August 28, 2012, 05:26:15 PM
This is an email I received on 8/13. I posted it on another board on this site.

Eric,

First of all thank you for the email:

Current data as of this morning have the brewers just starting in production w/ 3rd party inspections scheduled for the 20th. If past history (almost 5 years) of our roaster manufacturing is used as a valid indicator this would put brewers in the hands of distributors 30 days from then. The lone caveat being DHS/ Customs. They can and do at times hold a shipment for further inspection.

As to pre-orders, I've requested none be taken until I know with 100% certainty they brewers are on the water. That should occur in about 10-12 days then they would be free to do so. I just like being cautious.


Thanks again for writing.

Best regards
Joe Behm
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on August 29, 2012, 03:49:40 PM
Joe put the distributors' list on CG this pm.

USA

Roastmasters,  http://www.roastmasters.com/brazen.html (http://www.roastmasters.com/brazen.html)
Seattle Coffee Gear
SweetMarias
Burman Coffee  http://www.burmancoffee.com/trips/equipment.html (http://www.burmancoffee.com/trips/equipment.html)
Coffee Project   http://coffeeproject.com/shop/magento/gift-certificates/brazen-coffee-brewer.html (http://coffeeproject.com/shop/magento/gift-certificates/brazen-coffee-brewer.html)

Canada

Greenbeanery
Idrinkcoffee.com
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Richdel on August 29, 2012, 04:47:28 PM
Roastmasters has a 17% savings on the Brazen, bringing the total to 199.00.  Certainly better pricing then the $250 I had heard.
Title: Meet Gort!
Post by: headchange4u on August 29, 2012, 06:37:53 PM
Anyone else think the Gort would make a good canidate for a traveling road show?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: ScareYourPassenger on August 30, 2012, 07:35:28 AM
I am game, I would like to face it off against my Technivorm and see if it is worth it.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: RobertL on August 30, 2012, 07:38:29 AM
I would pay $20 for a week to play with the Brazen.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: ScareYourPassenger on August 30, 2012, 07:50:05 AM
No question it'll kick my Bunn's butt, so there was nothing stopping me from pulling the trigger (esp. with four regular coffee drinkers in the house).  I think Joe said the minimum was half a pot, anything less and I'd be using the Chemex anyway, this bad boy's for brewing pots not cups.

That is the nice thing about the Technivorm. It has the ability to adjust the flow rate for half pots.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: headchange4u on August 30, 2012, 07:57:47 AM
Started a road show thread (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=14526.msg231151#msg231151).
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on August 30, 2012, 11:09:22 AM
I have a TV and a Bunn VPR-APS brewer available, so I'm hoping to do real side-by-side temp & taste tests when the Road Show Gort gets to me.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on September 01, 2012, 02:39:01 PM
Order placed with Roastmasters along with a free 1# bag of Ethiopia Kochere roasted by Willoughby's Coffee and Tea.

I just got out of the backcountry and noticed a 19-hour old email on my phone from Roastmasters announcing the preorder opening. I was a little disappointed and now must wonder how many, like Yankster, got their order in before mine. I did pull off to the side of the road and preorder mine as soon as the cell coverage was stable. 
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jano on September 27, 2012, 08:27:00 AM
This thing appears to be a great concept, has my wheels turning. 

Is the auto-on supposed to actually brew coffee at a certain time, or just heat up and get the water to temp, or, err.. both?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jano on September 27, 2012, 10:11:11 AM
According to the Brazen Manual ([url]http://www.behmor.com/docs/Brazen+Manual+version%20final%20web.pdf[/url]) you can set the brewer to make your coffee automatically in the morning.  You'd have to pre-grind your coffee, of course, so I probably won't use this feature much.


Okay, figured as much.  Thanks for the link to the manual.

I'm now picturing a Rube Goldberg contraption involving a grinder, basket, freshly dispensed beans, and a R.O.B.  What a fun morning that would be.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on September 27, 2012, 10:15:02 AM
According to the Brazen Manual ([url]http://www.behmor.com/docs/Brazen+Manual+version%20final%20web.pdf[/url]) you can set the brewer to make your coffee automatically in the morning.  You'd have to pre-grind your coffee, of course, so I probably won't use this feature much.


(http://i.imgur.com/CNbxV.gif)

Yeah baby, grind it!
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on September 27, 2012, 11:43:05 AM
I've never quite figured out why someone with expertise in coffee making would put a delayed start switch on a coffee machine? It seems as counter-intuitive as putting a governor on a Ferrari 250 GTO.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: MMW on September 27, 2012, 11:46:41 AM
I've never quite figured out why someone with expertise in coffee making would put a delayed start switch on a coffee machine? It seems as counter-intuitive as putting a governor on a Ferrari 250 GTO.

It's more like a cupholder in a Ferrari:  It's not a feature the enthusiast is likely to use but it's a 'feature' the customers demand.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on September 27, 2012, 12:19:03 PM
I've never quite figured out why someone with expertise in coffee making would put a delayed start switch on a coffee machine? It seems as counter-intuitive as putting a governor on a Ferrari 250 GTO.

It's more like a cupholder in a Ferrari:  It's not a feature the enthusiast is likely to use but it's a 'feature' the customers demand.

But would you put a pod adapter on the GS3 if you were designing it?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: MMW on September 27, 2012, 01:01:39 PM
I've never quite figured out why someone with expertise in coffee making would put a delayed start switch on a coffee machine? It seems as counter-intuitive as putting a governor on a Ferrari 250 GTO.


It's more like a cupholder in a Ferrari:  It's not a feature the enthusiast is likely to use but it's a 'feature' the customers demand.

But would you put a pod adapter on the GS3 if you were designing it?

Depends on how many more units it would sell.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on September 27, 2012, 01:16:54 PM
I might actually see using it if I were to pull a couple of shots in the morning, grind some fresh coffee, then program the brewer to make a pot of coffee for the rest of the family when they get up.  I don't see the need to grind the night before and pre-program for a morning batch.

I'd have to get up earlier, though, and as it is I'm getting up and making the pot of coffee before I get ready so everyone can have their fix before they head out for the day.

How long is freshly ground coffee good for, or how long does it take for coffee sitting in a pot to get stale?

It disturbs me when folks mistreat the coffee I roast so carefully.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jano on September 27, 2012, 02:32:01 PM
How long is freshly ground coffee good for, or how long does it take for coffee sitting in a pot to get stale?


Newbie here talking to the experts I realize... but, anyway, just trying to fit in here... I did a blind test last year comparing freshly ground vs. few-days-before-ground-and-stored-in-air-tight-ceramic-thingy.  All from the same bean, roasted a few days before, etc. etc.  I couldn't tell the difference, however, my palate has increased in snootiness since then - I'm getting ready to extend the pinky.  The purpose was to see whether it made sense for my gf to take pre-ground coffee to make a fresh mid-morning cup since her workplace didn't have/want a grinder.  Note I don't actually do this, it was only a test.

Back on topic: depending on how long it takes to heat up the water to temp, maybe it can be a useful feature to help save time in the morning.  i.e. you set the doohickey to be ready for 6am, you waltz up to, grind your beans, put them in the basket, brew.  Can allow for a good 5-10 minutes more sleep :)

Again, Rube Goldberg -> R.O.B.  to put fresh ground beans into the basket.  Cue the music (http://youtu.be/tEuwAh3LFvM).
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ray T on September 27, 2012, 02:44:04 PM
Gort shipped today from Roastmasters  ;D
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on September 27, 2012, 03:45:48 PM
How long is freshly ground coffee good for, or how long does it take for coffee sitting in a pot to get stale?


Newbie here talking to the experts I realize...

snipped


Nope, Peter is the only expert (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=expert) around these parts. ;D
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: mp on September 27, 2012, 03:49:05 PM
How long is freshly ground coffee good for, or how long does it take for coffee sitting in a pot to get stale?


Newbie here talking to the experts I realize...

snipped


Nope, Peter is the only expert ([url]http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=expert[/url]) around these parts. ;D


Is that like X and spert?

(http://www.forumsextreme.com/images2/sFun_blahblah.gif)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: pgde on September 27, 2012, 05:10:35 PM
Can't wait for the feedback from the users here on it!!!  :)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on September 28, 2012, 09:56:54 AM
I recieved my notice last night. Mine is scheduled to arrive Oct. 3.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: seldomseensmith on September 29, 2012, 06:15:03 PM
Meet Gort MFers!!!!!

This is the first time I've ever used an auto-brewer. I bought this thing to work a farmers market, cuz cleaning out french presses into buckets is no fun. I just did my first brew; it's late so it was decaf. I'm not going to comment on the cup until I can put one of my favorite coffees though it (tomorrow morning). But my initial comment is that the pre-soak uses way too much water; pretty much just like brewing.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: milowebailey on September 29, 2012, 06:45:26 PM
Pre-soak is adjustable isn't it?  Maybe you just need some time to tune it in.  I saw it at SCAA and I like it.  I might buy one for the cabin.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Richdel on September 30, 2012, 06:05:42 AM
Anxiously awaiting seldomseensmith Sunday morning meet and greet with Gort.
I have squirreled-away the necessary dollars for this purchase, now just waiting
for a few GCBC-ers to give a solid in depth review.  Hopefully the pre-soak is an adjustable parameter. 

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: seldomseensmith on September 30, 2012, 07:30:29 AM
The presoak time is adjustable, but not the volume of water - unless I'm missing something.

I'm too frustrated right now to write a thoughtful response - as I burned my nether regions when I finally pulled the basket from the machine. But this was an 8 cup brew, with 70 grams of coffee, ground course. Coffee started pouring out of all of the cracks around where the basket inserts, as well as from where it was suppose to be coming from. It seems pretty obvious that the coffee bloomed up and clogged the machine. But I used the manufacturers instructions, so not too happy.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on September 30, 2012, 08:11:17 AM
Meet Gort MFers!!!!!

Might have to take a rain check...

:(
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: seldomseensmith on September 30, 2012, 08:18:36 AM
After calming down a bit, I went back to playing. I jumped back in with 50 grams fully coarse. The brew went fine but the coffee was weak. I then upped it to 60 grams fully coarse. About 10-15 drops came from places that they shouldn't have, and the dispersion screen was quasi-covered in coffee. The strength of the coffee is reasonable and the taste is pretty solid. But I guess the bottom line is that you can't do a strong 8 cup pot? And when I say "strong," I don't mean freakishly strong. I mean 70 grams, which is what the manufacturer recommends, "60-70g."

For the record, I'm using a Bunn G3 with new burrs
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on September 30, 2012, 02:14:24 PM
After calming down a bit, I went back to playing. I jumped back in with 50 grams fully coarse. The brew went fine but the coffee was weak. I then upped it to 60 grams fully coarse. About 10-15 drops came from places that they shouldn't have, and the dispersion screen was quasi-covered in coffee. The strength of the coffee is reasonable and the taste is pretty solid. But I guess the bottom line is that you can't do a strong 8 cup pot? And when I say "strong," I don't mean freakishly strong. I mean 70 grams, which is what the manufacturer recommends, "60-70g."

For the record, I'm using a Bunn G3 with new burrs

Sounds a bit too strong? I've found 60 grams is about right for 10 cups using a gold-mesh filter in the TV I bought from Jim.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: milowebailey on September 30, 2012, 02:28:58 PM
The presoak time is adjustable, but not the volume of water - unless I'm missing something.

I'm too frustrated right now to write a thoughtful response - as I burned my nether regions when I finally pulled the basket from the machine. But this was an 8 cup brew, with 70 grams of coffee, ground course. Coffee started pouring out of all of the cracks around where the basket inserts, as well as from where it was suppose to be coming from. It seems pretty obvious that the coffee bloomed up and clogged the machine. But I used the manufacturers instructions, so not too happy.

Send a PM to tahoejoe he might know a little about this machine.  I hear he has used a beta version for a while. 8)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: RobertL on September 30, 2012, 02:32:07 PM
I don't use an automatic coffee maker but applying the ratios I use for pourover 60-70 grams for 8 cups is kind of weak. I'm assuming the "cups" are six ounces each.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on September 30, 2012, 10:38:51 PM
When I use the DG/TechniVorm or the Bonavita 1800, I use the 60g/1000mL ratio. for a 1200mL full pot this ratio would call for 72g of ground coffee. The extra 3g to get to 75g shouldn't be a deal breaker.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: seldomseensmith on October 01, 2012, 07:46:59 AM
Barry at Roastmasters - where I ordered from - said I need to make my pre-soak time longer. Right now it's at 40 seconds - which makes a lot of sense to me. But he said it needs to be in the 1:15 - 2:00 range for fresh coffee.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on October 01, 2012, 09:43:24 AM
Joe posted on CG this a.m.

"SCAA guidelines are 55 grams per liter, thus 66 for 1.2L

SCAE (europe) are 65 per liter, thus 76 for 1.2L

I tend to use about 66-68 per 1.2L

On a side note.. when first starting, set pre-soak for 1:20 especially if using extremely fresh roasted coffee.. and don't overgrind."
Title: Meet Gort!
Post by: headchange4u on October 01, 2012, 09:48:09 AM
The unit for the road show should arrive tomorrow according to the tracking info.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on October 02, 2012, 11:31:52 AM
I generally will not brew with less than 72 hours after the roast BUT see where some are jumping in with rests at 1-2 days and like my brothers, the beans are full of gas.

In those cases longer pre-soak time may be needed as is evidenced by what a few others have illuded to. My comments were based on a 3 days rest and to date even on 7 days old will go no less than 1:20.

Just a quick clarification.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Soapbox on October 02, 2012, 02:22:39 PM
Lo and behold mine ended up on the stoop while I was at work. 
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on October 02, 2012, 02:33:04 PM
Meet Gort MFers!!!!!

This is the first time I've ever used an auto-brewer. I bought this thing to work a farmers market, cuz cleaning out french presses into buckets is no fun. I just did my first brew; it's late so it was decaf. I'm not going to comment on the cup until I can put one of my favorite coffees though it (tomorrow morning). But my initial comment is that the pre-soak uses way too much water; pretty much just like brewing.

Pre-soak is based to the standards set by the SCAA, that being 2ml per gram of coffee. Given we are going to be anywhere from 66-77 grams we did 15 seconds at 10ml per, which puts us on par w/ the SCAA standards. If you are doing a short load  more water will not effect the brew.

However IF you wish to use the manual release feature, it is explained in the manual how to over ride the presets and do a manual release with timers for each function of the valve open as well as closed. Found in the manual on Page 5- Brew Using Manual Release

Pick your poison..


Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on October 02, 2012, 03:04:49 PM
Barry at Roastmasters - where I ordered from - said I need to make my pre-soak time longer. Right now it's at 40 seconds - which makes a lot of sense to me. But he said it needs to be in the 1:15 - 2:00 range for fresh coffee.

I don't mind taking heat for my mistakes but the manual clearly states: Fresh roasts under 3 days old may benefit from a pre-soak of 1 ½ minutes, you chose to do :40 because it made sense to you but that isn't what we (designers/ mamufacturers) instruct users. These instructions are found Page 6 in Tips area, Pre-soak.

Also addressed in the manual, and how the gold filter could clog if the grind is too fine, this is found on page 4, item 2 under Brewing Instructions

Again I don't mind taking heat if I/WE/BEHMOR screw up..but to have launched at me is unfair when we try to steer users in the right direction and the directions aren't heeded.

Please read the manual..then if we are wrong take your shot and I'll accept that hit.

ps.. I've just created a short guide to assist..
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on October 02, 2012, 03:26:25 PM
You should put this sticker on the machine Joe, "When all else fails, read the bleepin' instructions!"
 ;D
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on October 02, 2012, 03:31:15 PM
You should put this sticker on the machine Joe, "When all else fails, read the bleepin' instructions!"
 ;D

Thanks Tex for the laugh.. it frustrates me because I genuinely care and have no problem taking heat for our mistakes and we'll sadly make'm and I'll accept the hit
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: seldomseensmith on October 02, 2012, 06:07:40 PM
Barry at Roastmasters - where I ordered from - said I need to make my pre-soak time longer. Right now it's at 40 seconds - which makes a lot of sense to me. But he said it needs to be in the 1:15 - 2:00 range for fresh coffee.

I don't mind taking heat for my mistakes but the manual clearly states: Fresh roasts under 3 days old may benefit from a pre-soak of 1 ½ minutes, you chose to do :40 because it made sense to you but that isn't what we (designers/ mamufacturers) instruct users. These instructions are found Page 6 in Tips area, Pre-soak.

Also addressed in the manual, and how the gold filter could clog if the grind is too fine, this is found on page 4, item 2 under Brewing Instructions

Again I don't mind taking heat if I/WE/BEHMOR screw up..but to have launched at me is unfair when we try to steer users in the right direction and the directions aren't heeded.

Please read the manual..then if we are wrong take your shot and I'll accept that hit.

ps.. I've just created a short guide to assist..

That's my bad Joe, I didn't see that in the manual; I just went with the pre-infusion that I've grown accustom to.

This is my first time using an auto-brewer; I'm really impressed so far. Good work guys!!!
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Soapbox on October 03, 2012, 05:26:17 AM
I'm a fan of super hot coffee.  What I've learned is it is possible to make a bitter pot from setting the temperature to high.  Second pot was in line and I'm enjoying it now.  And it was nice that I was able to wake up and not have to stumble around fixing the pour over.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: headchange4u on October 03, 2012, 11:51:49 AM
The road show Gort arrived yesterday and I was able to brew one batch through the unit. The coffee came out tasting like crap, which I am quite sure was the fault of myself or the grinder I was using. I will take more time to experiment this weekend.

I do love the look of the brewer.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 03, 2012, 12:03:08 PM
Mine just arrived from FedEx.  Now if I can just get payroll done, I might get to play with it.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on October 03, 2012, 12:04:28 PM
The road show Gort arrived yesterday and I was able to brew one batch through the unit. The coffee came out tasting like crap, which I am quite sure was the fault of myself or the grinder I was using. I will take more time to experiment this weekend.

I do love the look of the brewer.

Too late now, but I meant to ask you to pay attention to any chemical smell, particularly plastic, emanating from the machine when you opened it. My pet peeve with stuff imported from Asia are the lubricants/release agents used in manufacturing.

Not that I've heard anything bad about this machine, just cautious in general.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Soapbox on October 03, 2012, 12:10:15 PM
The road show Gort arrived yesterday and I was able to brew one batch through the unit. The coffee came out tasting like crap, which I am quite sure was the fault of myself or the grinder I was using. I will take more time to experiment this weekend.

I do love the look of the brewer.

Too late now, but I meant to ask you to pay attention to any chemical smell, particularly plastic, emanating from the machine when you opened it. My pet peeve with stuff imported from Asia are the lubricants/release agents used in manufacturing.

Not that I've heard anything bad about this machine, just cautious in general.

I did pay close attention and there were NO adverse smells nor coatings on anything which would affect the use of the unit in any fashion.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: headchange4u on October 03, 2012, 01:38:59 PM
The road show Gort arrived yesterday and I was able to brew one batch through the unit. The coffee came out tasting like crap, which I am quite sure was the fault of myself or the grinder I was using. I will take more time to experiment this weekend.

I do love the look of the brewer.

Too late now, but I meant to ask you to pay attention to any chemical smell, particularly plastic, emanating from the machine when you opened it. My pet peeve with stuff imported from Asia are the lubricants/release agents used in manufacturing.

Not that I've heard anything bad about this machine, just cautious in general.

No, nothing like that. Just a very bitter cup of coffee.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on October 03, 2012, 04:47:52 PM
The road show Gort arrived yesterday and I was able to brew one batch through the unit. The coffee came out tasting like crap, which I am quite sure was the fault of myself or the grinder I was using. I will take more time to experiment this weekend.

I do love the look of the brewer.

Too late now, but I meant to ask you to pay attention to any chemical smell, particularly plastic, emanating from the machine when you opened it. My pet peeve with stuff imported from Asia are the lubricants/release agents used in manufacturing.

Not that I've heard anything bad about this machine, just cautious in general.

No, nothing like that. Just a very bitter cup of coffee.

What water temp?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Soapbox on October 03, 2012, 05:11:04 PM
Bitter at 204.  Acceptable at 200.  I guess I am going to have to still warm the cups.  Elida nat 3 days post roast 55 grams to 6 cups.  I still need to work on dose/grind to get it where I like.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on October 03, 2012, 05:16:35 PM
Bitter at 204.  Acceptable at 200.  I guess I am going to have to still warm the cups.

Try 202.. you'll get a small drop in temp to the grounds but still a very hot brew
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Soapbox on October 03, 2012, 05:32:16 PM
Well since Wednesday is a church night I just whooped up 3 cups.  I used the same ratio's I would for the V60 and it is very very good.  Set temp 202 at 400ft elevation.
36 grams and water to the calibration line.
I dropped the pre soak time from 2:30 down to 1 min.

Excellent cup
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on October 03, 2012, 05:54:02 PM
Bitter at 204.  Acceptable at 200.  I guess I am going to have to still warm the cups.

Try 202.. you'll get a small drop in temp to the grounds but still a very hot brew

I imagine it's the same as making espresso: Too bitter, drop the temp. Too sour, raise the temp? How about roast levels; with espresso the rule of thumb is darker roasts need lower temps and vice-versa.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on October 03, 2012, 06:22:21 PM
Bitter at 204.  Acceptable at 200.  I guess I am going to have to still warm the cups.

Try 202.. you'll get a small drop in temp to the grounds but still a very hot brew

I imagine it's the same as making espresso: Too bitter, drop the temp. Too sour, raise the temp? How about roast levels; with espresso the rule of thumb is darker roasts need lower temps and vice-versa.

I'm in the process of setting up a forum or something that is only to deal with the setting for various coffee, roast levels etc..

My early take is lighter lower temp, darker higher but I've stayed in the 202-204 consistently.. but that's what works for me..
Title: Meet Gort!
Post by: headchange4u on October 03, 2012, 07:36:13 PM
I did a 200* temp with a 30 second presoak.  I'm pretty sure the grind was the culprit. I think it was too fine.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tyme on October 03, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
The fact that there are discussions on setting the brew temp from 204 to 202 and different pre-soak times on a home use auto brewer is just amazing to me.  And by amazing I mean that it's absolutely awesome that an auto brewer can be this flexible. 
Bravo to Behmor! 

I can't wait for the Roadshow

(insert MP's emoticon drinking pot after pot of coffee)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: JW on October 03, 2012, 09:01:15 PM
I'm pretty sure the grind was the culprit. I think it was too fine.
Definitely coarsen up the grind a lot. When doing a 4 minute plus extraction, it is very easy to overextract, but you know that.   ;)  Also when doing a 4 minute extraction you get more hemi cellulose hydrolysis. This produces more reducing sugars, primarily xylose, which is not sweet (as most sugars are not sweet), but lends a silkier, creamier mouthfeel.
 
I'm going to have to be taken off the roadshow list, I jumped the gun and bought one...and it arrived today. Did 3 trial runs after calibrating it and running a cleaning cycle. No problems whatsoever with too large a bloom. All coffee was 3 day post roast with a city( ethiopia chelelektu, SM's), city+( sidamo bonko, last years shrub offering), and full city roast levels ( Guat Atitlan, Klatch). The chelelektu was extracted at 200F( 64 grams), the bonko at 202F (66 grams), the guat at 201F(66 grams).  All coffee was delicious.

Thanks Joe! I really like this brewer!!!
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Soapbox on October 04, 2012, 05:36:28 AM
I'm pretty sure the grind was the culprit. I think it was too fine.
No problems whatsoever with too large a bloom.   All coffee was delicious.

Thanks Joe! I really like this brewer!!!
For this mornings offerings I upped the dose to 73 grams.  And found NO issue with a blooming.  I can hardly wait to get a nice thick buttery roast coffee into the Brazen.

Thanks
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 04, 2012, 08:53:09 AM
I did my first pot this morning and it turned out very good.  I used a Mocha Java blend that they sent me with the machine. 

Brew temp:  201, the highest that the Brazen will give me at this elevation
Presoak was set at 1:20
52 grams of coffee and water to the 6 cup mark
Five day old coffee
Grind was at dead center, 20, on the Perciso, the same grind I use in the Yama
Paper filters

I am not in love with the Mocha Java blend they sent me but I cannot complain about the brew.  I did a Hario V60, my go-to brew method, for comparison and they were close.  The Brazen appeared to be a little brighter in the cup where the V60 had a little more depth.  I liked the V60 better but not by much.  All and all, I am happy.  I know this will be essential for Christmas at the cabin.  No longer will I have to make press pot after press pot.  I have to give Joe some esteem as I have not had an electric brewer in over two decades.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 04, 2012, 09:05:07 AM
And, it looks pretty good in the lineup:
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: JW on October 04, 2012, 06:27:54 PM
This morning I brewed a 1.2L pot of a Kenya French Mission Bourbon roasted to a nice city level( 4 days post roast). Beautiful bright coffee and I really think the brewer brought out the brightness even more. Brewed with a 1 minuted pre soak at 203F. Really, really enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 05, 2012, 06:55:59 AM
I did a two day old, home roasted Kenya AA  Thunguri Estate this morning using 50 grams, at six cups. I am still at my max temp do 201 with the presoak at 1:20.  This is a dam good cup of coffee. This is a brand new bean to me so I do not have a a baseline for comparison but I can not imagine it getting a whole lot lot better in a  manual drip. 

I think I will play around with the gold filter over the weekend.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: tahoejoe on October 05, 2012, 09:57:18 AM
Good data yakster... but could suggest
1) on fresh roasts min 1:20 pre-soak
2) lid- condensation.. I open and turn it vertical over the reservoir.
3) and yes only thing lost when unplugged is the actual time of day. Only way to change that w/ good results is adding a battery..

Thanks again
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on October 05, 2012, 10:36:39 AM
Agreed on all points.  I did turn the lid vertical and shake off the excess over the sink, no real issue.

You don't want a battery.  Too many disposal/RoHS/replacement issues, saving the config is perfect.

No battery is OK, but a 12 VDC model would really be useful for RV or boat owners.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jimec3 on October 05, 2012, 11:47:15 AM
Agreed on all points.  I did turn the lid vertical and shake off the excess over the sink, no real issue.

You don't want a battery.  Too many disposal/RoHS/replacement issues, saving the config is perfect.

No battery is OK, but a 12 VDC model would really be useful for RV or boat owners.

A tiny slice of an already small market, ROI on that.......never
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on October 05, 2012, 11:55:52 AM
Agreed on all points.  I did turn the lid vertical and shake off the excess over the sink, no real issue.

You don't want a battery.  Too many disposal/RoHS/replacement issues, saving the config is perfect.

No battery is OK, but a 12 VDC model would really be useful for RV or boat owners.

A tiny slice of an already small market, ROI on that.......never

Maybe, but if I'm making a wish list, I'd put it ahead of a battery powered clock.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: MMW on October 05, 2012, 12:03:38 PM
Won't most folks with a RV or boat with enough juice to run a coffee pot like this already have an inverter?  That has to be, what, 140 amps at 12V?  Here's your coffee pot and a set of welding cables :o
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: rasqual on October 05, 2012, 08:13:56 PM
Just saw this in action tonight for the first time. I'm impressed.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: SJM on October 06, 2012, 08:07:14 AM
So dudes and dudettes, this is the drip machine to end all drip machines? 

My only auto brew machine is a MokaBrew, so if anyone has comments on comparing the BraZen to the MB, bring 'em on.  Of course I haven't even used the MB for a few years, so I'm probably not in the market or mood for a new auto dripper, but it is the comparison I would be interested in.

Susan
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BoldJava on October 06, 2012, 08:21:01 AM
Had two great cups of the Greenway Coffee Rwanda Dukunde Kawa last night from my first batch in the Brazen documented above.  ...

Excellent first look Chris, thanks.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: rasqual on October 06, 2012, 03:43:18 PM
It's likely I'll buy a Brazen before I get a Trifecta. They will bother offer superb repeatability. Since the Brazen compensates for elevation as well, two people with dramatic geographic separations could compare notes with few variables in question (grinding being the biggy).  But the Brazen meets me first on my way to saving money for a Trifecta, and it's siren song is sweet.  ;D
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: grinderz on October 06, 2012, 06:11:00 PM
Do you think they can manage?  ;)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 06, 2012, 07:48:03 PM
Do you think they can manage?  ;)

I am amazed at the difficulties some face in making coffee. I bought my fiancée a Clever thinking that it would be the easiest pourover for her. I am the only one that has ever used it. I got the Brazen for her and walked her thru the operation of it twice.  Yet when I got out of bed this morning, 45 minutes after her, the first thing out of her mouth was, "will you make a pot of coffee." It is crazy how intimidating coffee paraphernalia can be to some. 

I like Yakster's idea of pre-dosing the whole beans. I might have to try that.  Weighing stuff appears to be another thing that challenges my fiancée.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: peter on October 06, 2012, 07:52:05 PM
Do you think they can manage?  ;)

I am amazed at the difficulties some face in making coffee. I bought my fiancée a Clever thinking that it would be the easiest pourover for her. I am the only one that has ever used it. I got the Brazen for her and walked her thru the operation of it twice.  Yet when I got out of bed this morning, 45 minutes after her, the first thing out of her mouth was, "will you make a pot of coffee." It is crazy how intimidating coffee paraphernalia can be to some.


She is training you Eric.  Never underestimate the wiles of a woman.

BTW, your killer espresso blend(s) left today.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on October 06, 2012, 08:50:13 PM
Do you think they can manage?  ;)

I am amazed at the difficulties some face in making coffee. I bought my fiancée a Clever thinking that it would be the easiest pourover for her. I am the only one that has ever used it. I got the Brazen for her and walked her thru the operation of it twice.  Yet when I got out of bed this morning, 45 minutes after her, the first thing out of her mouth was, "will you make a pot of coffee." It is crazy how intimidating coffee paraphernalia can be to some.


She is training you Eric.  Never underestimate the wiles of a woman.

BTW, your killer espresso blend(s) left today.

+1

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoyhdOkgVWRnaWpcLBQESTXSJXzXY5LIBq3qagq4RgZ--qoVhD)


Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Soapbox on October 07, 2012, 08:41:08 AM
Has anyone noticed any difference between using the gold filter vrs paper.  I immediately began to use paper out of the gate thinking since my reference V60 I'd like to duplicate the same cup.  Well I haven't been able to do it using paper in both.  I encountered my first blooming mess using the same dose in the gold filter as I was using with paper.  I'm wondering if it was a fluke?  With out a doubt weighing doses for the Brazen provide for the best results in my kitchen.  By the way I was able to match cup for cup with the v60 and the brazen but I had to use the gold filter with a grind just a little coarser than normal drip where as for my timed v60 I go a few notches finer than normal drip.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 07, 2012, 11:35:42 AM
She actually made coffee this morning, with some minor coaching. I commented that it was really not that difficult.  She said, "You have no idea how groggy I am in the morning." I hate to do this, but the only way it looks like this will work is if show her how to use the timer. I guess it is still an upgrade from her stained Mr. Coffee.

I have no interest in drinking coffee that was ground eight hours ago and I was wondering:  Has anyone done a 4 cup batch using normal brewing with the carafe?  If so, what were your results?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on October 07, 2012, 12:01:32 PM
She actually made coffee this morning, with some minor coaching. I commented that it was really not that difficult.  She said, "You have no idea how groggy I am in the morning." I hate to do this, but the only way it looks like this will work is if show her how to use the timer. I guess it is still an upgrade from her stained Mr. Coffee.

I have no interest in drinking coffee that was ground eight hours ago and I was wondering:  Has anyone done a 4 cup batch using normal brewing with the carafe?  If so, what were your results?

I hate to say this, but rather than using the timer to brew with stale grounds, it might be better to brew a pot before going to bed & hope the carafe keeps it hot enough?  Use boiling water to preheat the carafe before brewing, and if you're lucky the brew is still drinkable 4 - 8 hours later. Believe me - coffee grounds get stale a LOT QUICKER than brewed coffee!

I used to do this when I had to get up early to catch an ebbing tide to snag the big redfish.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: JW on October 07, 2012, 02:10:27 PM
Set temp 202 at 400ft elevation.
36 grams and water to the calibration line.
I dropped the pre soak time from 2:30 down to 1 min.

Excellent cup

This has been working well for me when I just want a few cups.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 07, 2012, 02:38:49 PM
Set temp 202 at 400ft elevation.
36 grams and water to the calibration line.
I dropped the pre soak time from 2:30 down to 1 min.

Excellent cup

This has been working well for me when I just want a few cups.

Thanks for digging this up. I missed it the first time around. I think the fiancée will get her four cups set up the night before and I will either make a fresh pot or a V60 when I get up. I was just curious because the manual suggests a minimum of six cups unless using manual release. 
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Soapbox on October 07, 2012, 08:15:54 PM
Set temp 202 at 400ft elevation.
36 grams and water to the calibration line.
I dropped the pre soak time from 2:30 down to 1 min.

Excellent cup

This has been working well for me when I just want a few cups.

Thanks for digging this up. I missed it the first time around. I think the fiancée will get her four cups set up the night before and I will either make a fresh pot or a V60 when I get up. I was just curious because the manual suggests a minimum of six cups unless using manual release.
  Who reads manuals?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 07, 2012, 09:03:22 PM
I read it online when I was trying to decide if I wanted to preorder one.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: lurkerjohnny on October 08, 2012, 01:19:57 AM
So dudes and dudettes, this is the drip machine to end all drip machines? 

My only auto brew machine is a MokaBrew, so if anyone has comments on comparing the BraZen to the MB, bring 'em on.  Of course I haven't even used the MB for a few years, so I'm probably not in the market or mood for a new auto dripper, but it is the comparison I would be interested in.

Susan

Susan, I am a big fan of the MokaBrew.  Even though I love it, I find the MokaBrew to be hit or miss.  Some coffee works better on it than others.  Also, sometimes I can have a great cup of coffee with it then a crappy one the next day using the same coffee.  My other go-to methods of coffee preparation are the CCD and the Aeropress.
So far I have used the Brazen 5 times using two different roasts.  The coffee has been consistently GREAT!  I have tried it at both the 6 cup mark and the 4 cup mark.  This machine has simplified my morning routine.  Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jbviau on October 08, 2012, 09:54:02 AM
^^^ Nice. Not for me though since it sounds like the finalists may be subjected to some sort of vote (possibly "like"-based) before a winner is determined. The last such Facebook contest I entered required some serious spamming of friends and relatives in order to eke out a victory.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jano on October 08, 2012, 10:22:58 AM
I have no interest in drinking coffee that was ground eight hours ago...

Have you tried storing the single-ground batch in one of these ceramic air-tight thingies?  I did a blind tasting once to help out the gf so she could have a cup at work, and a couple days in one of these didn't impact the flavor; that was a long time ago before either of us had a sophistimaticated palatte. 
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Mlee on October 09, 2012, 05:52:15 PM
I have been following this and many more threads trying not to buy a Brazen as I already have a TV. I decided to try and do the pre-soak thing with the tV. Got some h2o up to temp in a kettle and soaked the grouinds for about a minute and then ran the TV. It made a huge difference with a much improvrd taste. More detail and a richer, bigger taste,  who would have thunk???

Mike
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 09, 2012, 06:12:16 PM

BTW, your killer espresso blend(s) left today.

The espresso arrived today. Unfortunately it was after three, past my caffeine cut off time.  I look forward to trying them in the morning. They smell great. 
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: smico on October 11, 2012, 03:45:38 AM

600 ml water
33 g (11g Elida Natural + 22 Mexican Chiapas)
201 F
45 s presoak

Very delicate cup, as you can imagine, with nice touch of Elida.
I will try 202 and extend presoak to 1 min. I will try to nail down 600 ml water  as this is exact amount of coffee that we need in the morning.
Griound in between Press and Filter on Vario.

Gort should have water sensor in the tank. Brewing should stop once water runs out.


Miroslav
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Soapbox on October 11, 2012, 06:35:09 PM
This morning I brewed 50 grams of Greenway Coffee Rwanda Dukunde Kawa with 900 ml of 200°F water and 45 second pre-soak.  I enjoyed two cups this morning with my flax seed topped wheat bread, very nice cup with hibiscus notes.

I've brewed most of my pots at 202°F, but 200 worked out pretty well today.  I'm going to poke around in that direction for a bit.

Every pot I've made in the Brazen has been finished before I left for work.  When I made the same volume of coffee in the Bunn, there'd usually be leftovers to clean up when I got home.  I'm also thinking one of the issues I have with the Bunn BTX is the temperature deadband.  It holds the reservoir at temp, ready to brew, but cycles through a temperature range and some days I'd brew a good pot in the Bunn and others was just a miss, probably because of the difference in brew temps.  They've all been good in the Brazen so far.  I found what JW had to say about temperature in the Canadian Traveling roadshow thread interesting:


This week I've done 20 or 21 pots through the Brazen. I decided right off the bat that 204 was a bit too high for me after 2 pots of washed centrals. I've been doing the washed centrals at 202F (mostly). Most Africans (washed) I've been doing at 200F. Naturals at 199F. Seems to work well for me, although I really doubt this thing can make a bad cup( if the coffee is good).

Uhmmm I was planning on going up in temp again.  It isn't overly cold in my house but I would like a my coffee tad warmer.  Since the brew is definitely controlled maybe I should warm my cups.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: headchange4u on October 12, 2012, 07:43:35 AM
Well I was really sad to Gort move on to the next person in the road show. Long story short, it is one hell of a coffee maker.

Right out of the box I was impressed by how the unit looked. It had a very solid build and the general overall look and feel of the unit was very classy. Being one who likes to tinker, I think it's awesome that someone has finally put out an automatic coffee maker that has adjustable parameters.

I ended up settling on a 1 minute steep time with a brew temp of 202-205. I used 55 grams of coffee. At first the grind I was using was too fine, which resulted in a overly bitter cup. A coarser grind from the Mazzer fixed that. Brews were on par with my Technivorm, but since the Gort has the ability to tweak parameters, it could potentially surpass the TV. I really wish that I had more time to spend with it.

The only slight downside to the Gort was the filter basket. There is nothing wrong with the basket as it sits, but I do like the cone shaped baskets, like what is featured on TV's, better than the standard coffee maker basket that is featured on the Gort. But that's nothing more than my opinion.

Overall, A+. I hope to own one one of these days.

The only realy gr

Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 17, 2012, 08:17:07 AM
After a couple weeks with the Brazen I am very happy with the quality in the cup. I do have one major complaint. I can not pour a cup of coffee without coffee dribbling down the spout and onto the counter. Mine simple does not pour clean. Normally this does not bother me but it becomes a major problem when you are trying to serve people at a dinner party with a nice table setting. Are others having this issue?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jbviau on October 17, 2012, 08:19:50 AM
I have the same problem with the road show unit. The first cup or two of a full pot pour well for me, but after that it's slow and dribbly. If I were to buy one of these for myself, I'd probably use a different carafe altogether.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ray T on October 19, 2012, 01:03:39 PM
I love this brewer. To get anything close with the Technivorm I have to fiddle with it by closing and opening the the basket thingy then stirring with a chopstick a few times during the brew cycle, with GORT Grind, Fill and Go. At 4am boring is a good thing  ;D. I use the gold filter only I am not giving up the wonderful oil slick on the top of the cup. My wife is using the filters to dry tomato seeds on  ;).

GORT the brewer of a different color for sure.

(http://)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on October 19, 2012, 02:39:45 PM
I love this brewer. To get anything close with the Technivorm I have to fiddle with it by closing and opening the the basket thingy then stirring with a chopstick a few times during the brew cycle, with GORT Grind, Fill and Go. At 4am boring is a good thing  ;D . I use the gold filter only I am not giving up the wonderful oil slick on the top of the cup. My wife is using the filters to dry tomato seeds on  ;) .

GORT the brewer of a different color for sure.

And you're not finding the 8 cup brew size inconvenient at all? When I bother with drip at all I usually have a group to make coffee for and even the 10 cup TV is limiting.

One thing I like about TV is the simplicity of making a 2nd or 3rd pot. Is the BraZen as easy to take apart?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Ray T on October 19, 2012, 03:06:10 PM
I love this brewer. To get anything close with the Technivorm I have to fiddle with it by closing and opening the the basket thingy then stirring with a chopstick a few times during the brew cycle, with GORT Grind, Fill and Go. At 4am boring is a good thing  ;D . I use the gold filter only I am not giving up the wonderful oil slick on the top of the cup. My wife is using the filters to dry tomato seeds on  ;) .

GORT the brewer of a different color for sure.

And you're not finding the 8 cup brew size inconvenient at all? When I bother with drip at all I usually have a group to make coffee for and even the 10 cup TV is limiting.

One thing I like about TV is the simplicity of making a 2nd or 3rd pot. Is the BraZen as easy to take apart?

For the two of us the 8 cup works fine 10 cup would have been better. With TV glass carafe on the low heat setting  the last cup normally got dumped and a new pot made anyway.

Cleans up is very easy. Not sure what you mean by taking it apart (still to new for that  ;)). Basket slides in or out pour in the water your done   ;)

You should have taken your turns Tex. I drink a lot of drip coffee this machine Blows them all out of the water
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: Tex on October 19, 2012, 03:17:09 PM
I love this brewer. To get anything close with the Technivorm I have to fiddle with it by closing and opening the the basket thingy then stirring with a chopstick a few times during the brew cycle, with GORT Grind, Fill and Go. At 4am boring is a good thing  ;D . I use the gold filter only I am not giving up the wonderful oil slick on the top of the cup. My wife is using the filters to dry tomato seeds on  ;) .

GORT the brewer of a different color for sure.

And you're not finding the 8 cup brew size inconvenient at all? When I bother with drip at all I usually have a group to make coffee for and even the 10 cup TV is limiting.

One thing I like about TV is the simplicity of making a 2nd or 3rd pot. Is the BraZen as easy to take apart?

For the two of us the 8 cup works fine 10 cup would have been better. With TV glass carafe on the low heat setting  the last cup normally got dumped and a new pot made anyway.

Cleans up is very easy. Not sure what you mean by taking it apart (still to new for that  ;) ). Basket slides in or out pour in the water your done   ;)

You should have taken your turns Tex. I drink a lot of drip coffee this machine Blows them all out of the water

Well, like I said, I make drip for company, not for myself. And the TV has a certain fan base among foodies, so I think my friends like my coffee as much for the TV as for what's in the cup. Personally, I believe the commercial Bunn I bought the church makes better coffee than any home drip pot. You just can't beat the accuracy of their adjustable thermometer, and the shower head they have beats anything else I've seen.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: shakin_jake on October 21, 2012, 02:46:44 AM

It's not my part to enlighten you Eric. 

Don't worry - you didn't accomplish it, not even by accident.

As for costing more, Behmor II could cost Hottop money, maybe even a bit more - the name is already established in our community and that has value. If I go from a Rancilio or Gaggia to a Quick Mill or Alex espresso machine, I expect that advanced capabilities will carry additional costs.

Maybe the market for premium home roasters is met fully by Hottop and Gene Cafe already.  I know I wanted a Behmor (V. 1) enough that I passed on the sub $200 home roasters and was saving towards $300 for a new roaster when Dan Brewer offered his Behmor for sale here which I bought.

After using it and trying the methods found on familiar web sites, I find it to be functional but missing some of that user input that makes a hobby more fun.  I know several people who own a Behmor as well. Being able to add some heat at a critical point of the roast (30 second Turbo mode maybe?) would solve the baked beans dilemma that happens on occasion.  Other friends of mine in the area use Hottop roasters while others use something else entirely.

My view of the market isn't the big picture, but it is part of the picture.  I appreciate your comments more Peter when you respect that.





~~~Eric,  Perhaps Dan sold that roaster to you on the cheap?...I sold it to Dan for $100.  FWIW, I bought it new, put it up for sale after using for 100 roasts, that's when Dan bought it from me

FWIW, just perusing this thread ... saw you posting here that you bought a b roaster from Dan.  Unless he had more than one, it was the one I sold to him


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
The worst moment for the atheist is when he is really thankful and has
nobody to thank /Rossetti/
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: EricBNC on October 22, 2012, 12:51:01 PM
It might have been the same roaster.  :)

I paid a bit more than $100 since shipping that size box (he packed it very carefully) with the roaster and the extras was not cheap. He included an extra drum and a new afterburner for the roaster and an adjustable OPV for my Gaggia Coffee as well.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 22, 2012, 06:36:09 PM
 The Brazan has been getting quite work out over the past week. I moved up to my parents house to watch their dogs while they were out of town and it was the only brew method that I bought with me. At least two pots of days have been brewed and I have learned some new things.

First, the timer does not work for us. Twice I have ground coffee the night before for the fiancé and set the timer. Twice she has turned her alarm off and slept in.  I then get out of bed, dump out the eight-hour-old grounds, grind fresh stuff, and brew a pot. I am sure the timer functions, we just can't seem to figure out how to make it work for us.

I have great luck with 6 cup and 8 cup pots. I cannot get the same complexity out of something that is brewed at the calibration line. We have tried anywhere from 32 to 40 g of coffee and I just cannot get the same distinction in the cup. I am not saying it makes a bad cup of coffee at the calibration line. It is still very good, it is just not the same.

Still the only complaint I have is the way it pours. My carafe is near impossible to poor without getting some drips down the side. At some point I would like to see extra carafes, that poor better, become available for sale. If I had an extra carafe, I think the Brazan could serve the needs of my largest dinner parties.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on October 29, 2012, 06:51:48 AM
I haven't tested out the timer feature to know if it works or not.

I can confirm that the timer works. I can not speak to the coffee as I tossed what was left in the pot and made a fresh one when I got up.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: pgde on January 02, 2013, 10:56:48 PM
Hi:

Just got my Brazen for Xmas from Santa. I have calibrated as per the manual. Our house is at 2982 feet. Considering that the boiling temp changes with altitude, shouldn't the temperatures that y'all are posting for extraction from different beans would also vary with altitude? In other words, here at our elevation, water boils at 206 degrees. For brewing, people are using anywhere between 201 and 204 degrees. But, wouldn't coffee extraction be different if those temperatures are for water boiling at 212 degrees? And, if that is true isn't boiling temp or altitude an important fact to know?

The reason I am asking is that I continue to get bitter (which I take to mean over-extracted) coffee at 201 degrees with all kinds of test grinds and holding the coffee amount constant (at 2.0 ozs per 1.2 liters). I tried 199 (a generic Panamanian coffee) and the bitterness was reduced significantly. I was going to try going lower, but was curious why my temperatures were so low in comparison to what has been posted here previously.

Thanks for your input and Happy New Year!

P.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on January 03, 2013, 09:19:39 AM
I think the brew temp for beans should not vary with elevation. 201 is 201 regardless of where you are. I am at about 5000' and I brew 80% of my beans at my max of 201. They turn out great. My only complaints are the dribble kettle and the fact that I am loosing all my manual brewing skills. The Yama has not come out of the cupboard in months.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: pgde on January 03, 2013, 10:26:32 AM
Hi All:

Thanks for the responses. Here is my thinking concerning temperature (in response to BozemanEric). If your boiling point is 212 and you are using a 201 temp (for instance), there is a 11 degree difference. If your boiling point is 206 and you are using a 201 temp, you only have a 5 degree difference. Therefore, it seems to me, there should be a difference in extraction rates.

Yakster -- thanks for the differentiation between the two! I had been wondering about what the difference is. In our case, there is no pucker. You may be correct in regards to coffee quality. I had been cheaper commercial quality coffee so as not to waste my more expensive (and limited stock) coffees obtained from here and SM. I am going to try some "real" home roasted coffee (El Salvador Honey Bourbon roasted to a City/City+) later today. It has been resting for 4 days now. Will let you know how it goes. In regards to amounts, I am using the amount suggested on page 5 of the manual under "Brewing Instructions" where it says "Use 8-10 tablespoons (2 oz) for a full pot." My other brewer is a Krups MokaPot Pressure brewer and I have noticed that to get the same strength in the cup, I have to use twice as much coffee (as well as adjusting the grind to a coarser grind).

Also, FYI, I am using the gold filter without any paper filter and my pre-soak time is 15 seconds.

Thanks again for the responses!

P.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on January 03, 2013, 12:03:11 PM
In regards to amounts, I am using the amount suggested on page 5 of the manual under "Brewing Instructions" where it says "Use 8-10 tablespoons (2 oz) for a full pot."

I use, as a benchmark:

36g for calibration line (Rarely brewed)
50g for .9L line (Mostly brewed)
66g for 1.2L line (Occasionally brewed)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: staylor on February 13, 2013, 03:30:16 PM
I'm really running tight for time today, I'm trying to pack for a 24hr Solo mountain bike race in Arizona this weekend and I have to drive to Spokane airport this evening to fly in the morning. Things were already a bit out of control and then I received the Brazen an hour ago...

Oh no!

Now I find myself setting it up and checking in here to see what the recommended parameters are so I can brew a mug of Kenyan. Why couldn't it have arrived tomorrow. ;-)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: milowebailey on February 13, 2013, 03:55:32 PM
Good to see that your priorities are in the right place!  You probably even have time for a sour or two.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: staylor on February 19, 2013, 06:36:56 PM
Good to see that your priorities are in the right place!  You probably even have time for a sour or two.

Got home and in bed by 0330hrs this morning, I'm almost back in the land of the living. Had a chance to do a Kone 2/Chemex pourover this morning vs. the Brazen, using the same Kenyan on both brews. Already starting to form an opinion, though it's still early days. Will play around with it some more and post back on my thoughts.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on September 21, 2013, 08:11:32 AM
Being that almost a year has passed since most of us got our Brazan I thought it would be a good time to revive this thread.  I would like to know what you owners think after a year of use. One thing I always liked on reviews were when they asked if you would suggest this product to a friend or if you would buy it again. So here is mine:

Would you suggest this to a friend? No.
Would you buy this product again? No.

Don't get me wrong, the Brazen makes a great cup of coffee. I just feel as if it was rushed to market and did not spend enough time in R&D. Here are the things that drive me crazy about this unit:

The dribbling carafe. I have a $200 coffee maker and I cannot even take to the table at a dinner party and pour directly out of it without making a mess of the table settings. At first I did not think this would bother me but after a year of dealing with this issue I believe it is a huge flaw.

My first unit was returned to Behmor. This was an arduous process involving multiple emails back and forth before they decided to replace the unit. It was retaining water and the upper reservoir and I was told they had never seen this problem before. The issue was posted on many other coffee sites prior to my contacting Behmor.

I cannot make a full pot of coffee with fresh beans regardless of how long my presoak time is. If I have beans three day off roast they always overflow the filter basket even when I have my presoak set at 3 to 4 minutes.

I have a crack in the bottom of one of my vertical supports.

Rebekah does not like the fact that when you pull the filter basket out an excess amount of water drips down onto the base of the unit. This does not bother me but it seems to still be an issue.

What we like about the Behmor Brazen:
It does make a good cup of coffee.
Rebekah especially likes the timer feature.
I especially like that elevation calibration.
I especially like the presoak function.
Rebecca is very hard on things and has not broken it yet. It seems to be durable, except for the crack. She uses it a lot more often than I do.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on September 21, 2013, 08:16:04 AM
The crack
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: hankua on September 21, 2013, 09:02:47 AM
+1

My first brewer died immediately after arrival and a second one came soon after. It's been a year now and the internal valve is not releasing all the water in the reservoir.
I use glacier vending water which is R/O with carbon filters on my coffee machines, so that's not the problem. The internal release valves have a failure rate and are not
user replaceable, so if yours goes out the machine is toast. What's the failure rate on these? It could be in an acceptable range, but what is that number?

Cosmetically my Brazen looks great and the drippy carafe is not a problem. My first carafe had the seal mounted incorrectly and  Behmor shipped a replacement which
was nice. I was able to take the first carafe apart and reseal the top section. But two carafes with a broken brewer is really not much help.

On the plus side the Behmor Brazen is the best brewer I've ever had.

Quote
Would you suggest this to a friend? No.
Would you buy this product again? No.


Good thing I have a Chemex in the closet; it works 100% of the time.  ;)
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on December 08, 2013, 10:45:08 AM
It seems as soon as Behmor fixes one problem another arises.  I have to thank them for the new carafe spout although in my mind the original, dribble spout, should have never made it past the assembly line. Now my Brazan is holding water again. This is my second Brazen.  The first was replaced after an arduous week of emailing back-and-forth with Behmor. They tried to blame it on my water, on obstructions, and anything else on my and they could.  First, they told me they had never heard of this problem even though it was all over coffee blogs. 

I know people rave about Behmor service but I have found it to be unsatisfactory.  When my first Brazen started acting up, it should've been replaced immediately. If a product does not work out of the box, the only acceptable course of action, is an apology and a swift replacement. I do not expect to tinker with it for a week before Behmor takes any fault.  Now my replacement, that is a little under a year old, is having the same water retention problems in the reservoir. This morning I poured over two thirds of a cup of water out of the reservoir after it was done brewing. Honestly, if I cannot fix this problem quickly myself the brazen will be thrown in the garbage and a TV will be under the Christmas tree this year. 

Between the crack in the supports, water retention problems, dribble spout, excess water on the shower head, and fresh coffee blooming up into the showerheads I can say I am not very happy with this product.  The one positive is, when it is working, it does make a tasty cup of coffee.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: pgde on December 08, 2013, 11:17:58 AM
Check to see if a vacuum is forming in the chamber. Does the lid come off easily? After a year of perfect functioning, I noticed about .75" of water remaining. I cleaned the screen and noticed that the lid did not easily come off. It was being held by a  vacuum. You can check this by leaving the lid ajar on the chamber. If the water goes completely through, then it is a vacuum problem (caused by the heating and cooling of the plastic lid). They will send you a new lid which solved my problem.

I also disagree that upon a customer's dissatisfaction that a unit should be immediately replaced. Perhaps it is the way the post was worded, but I would think it is SOP to do some troubleshooting before making a replacement decision. And, how does a support crack without some kind of kinetic energy applied to it?
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on December 08, 2013, 02:28:31 PM
I don't think you misunderstood the post. I do not believe my current Brazen should be replaced. I do however believe that if a product straight-out-of-the-box does not function properly it should be replaced, immediately.  This did not happen with my first to Brazen. I had emailed back and forth numerous times and tinker with it endlessly before they seem to take me seriously.  Troubleshooting is one thing, but the lengths they made me go through to convince them that my unit was defective was a little taxing. With all the time I wasted trying to convince Behmor that it did not work, I would've been money ahead to just throw the first one away and order a new one. I did not buy a factory second. I did not buy it at a discount outlet. I payed full price for a fully functioning unit. If the company cannot provide this, it should be replaced. In my eyes this is the difference between exceptional customer service and everything else.

As far as the unit goes, the lid comes off easily, the screen has been completely cleaned. I think I will do a full clean on everything again and see if that will solve the problem.  I guess I should ask: What is the longevity of an electric coffee brewer? This is the first one I have ever owned. 
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: jimec3 on December 09, 2013, 12:26:57 PM
As far as the unit goes, the lid comes off easily, the screen has been completely cleaned. I think I will do a full clean on everything again and see if that will solve the problem.  I guess I should ask: What is the longevity of an electric coffee brewer? This is the first one I have ever owned.

I traded a Technovorm for a Bunn Axiom that had been going strong for three years and my current Bunn pour-o-matic is circa '78. 

Like you I had a terrible time with my brazen.  I hate it, not because it doesn't make a good cup of coffee, but because the coffee doesnt wash the taste of poor service out of my mouth.  I think the company got caught over-reaching on this one and now they have too much invested in a crappy product. 

I spent a year wiping coffee off the counter at work (it was banished from my house) thinking everyday what crappy product, what crappy service....but I gotta get my money out it so I will use it till it dies.

Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: staylor on December 09, 2013, 04:16:24 PM
I rarely use the Brazen for full carafe loads, typically I use it to make the minimum production of two cups of coffee. Because of this I don't have any issues with overbloom due to fresh coffee, though I have had it happen a couple of times in the past when I made a full carafe.

I'm happy with the carafe pour now that I have replaced the carafe seal with the replacement kit they sent out.

I too don't like the water drip from the shower head if you have to clear the basket out right away. It's not too much of an issue if I'm the only one using the Brazen that day, as a few hours of it sitting unused reduces the water drip.

Overall I like the cup it produces, I like the convenience, etc. If the water drip issue was addressed I would be happy to recommend it to anyone.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on January 23, 2014, 04:47:15 AM
The Behmor Brazen continues to disappoint me. This is what was left in the water reservoir this morning after a thorough cleaning last week. It did not retain 5 to 6 ounces  water, it retained almost half of the water that was put in there.  I cannot recommend this brewer to anyone. In fact, it is about two bad pots away from going out in the weekly trash.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: BozemanEric on January 23, 2014, 05:10:27 AM
I do not understand this bipolar brewer. I topped off the water, brewed another batch, and it brewed perfectly.  Gort has some serious issues.  I wonder if it is bean envy. The first batch, that the Gort botched, was an Ecuador Gold cup. The second batch, that brewed just fine, was an inexpensive Kenya.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: staylor on January 23, 2014, 10:56:57 AM
Mine started doing the exact same thing at the end of Dec. I found the thread below and used the 'Flow Rate' method to sent off the results to Behmor, along with a link to my municipal water quality report showing how super soft our water is:

http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3863 (http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3863)

I got quick replies from Customer Service and they sent me out a new replacement machine (just the machine, no thermal carafe). It has been working flawlessly since arrival, I still have no idea what could have caused the problem with the first machine.

Great customer service from Behmor, I'm still a bit nervous about reliability.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: woodstock on January 23, 2014, 06:11:40 PM
I also ran into the same issue early this month. I also contacted customer service and shared my problems and details about the water I use.  Their response e-mail stated they would be shipping another Brazen to my address (sans carafe also).  Great customer service, I hope there are no issues with this Brazen.
Title: Re: Meet Gort!
Post by: hankua on January 25, 2014, 06:18:02 PM
Same here! Mine was a very early version that was initially replaced the first week. After one year of every day use, release valve issues. Behmor replaced the brewer within the two year warranty but outside the freebie time frame. It makes sense to replace defective units, but it's can be costly as well. Big thanks to Behmor!