Green Coffee Buying Club

Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: dsil on May 20, 2014, 11:23:57 AM

Title: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on May 20, 2014, 11:23:57 AM
Anyone own one of these, or know someone who does?
Thinking of replacing my Sonofresco roasters with one of these.
Thoughts?
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on May 21, 2014, 08:37:44 AM
Thanks for your message sgreen :)
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on May 22, 2014, 02:54:39 PM
I have one in transit, will arrive in Florida next week. Will post details after. Requires 60A 240v. New to fluid bed roasting. Been using IMEX 1500 power (korea) (30A 120v) and still use gene cafe once in a while.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: John F on May 22, 2014, 03:49:01 PM
60A 240V....  bam!!  8)
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on May 22, 2014, 05:44:42 PM
Look Forward to hearing more. I have heard back from a couple of roasters I found online that are using them, and they are very happy.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: daddiocatman on May 29, 2014, 09:03:34 PM
Artisan 6 Commercial Fluid Bed Coffee and Cacao Roaster from Coffee Crafters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1_dgbUj_QI#ws)

Here's a video of the Artisan 6 doing a roast. Very interesting!
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on June 05, 2014, 01:03:56 PM
up and running yet kjr55w? what are your opinions on the roast?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on June 09, 2014, 06:34:16 PM
It will probably be 2 more weeks before the first roast between my out of town travels and having a new "home"  built for the roaster. In fact I will be in Seattle and Spokane next week and plan to visit the company if I have time.  I am impressed with the quality and simplicity of the machinery. Promise a detailed report with pictures.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on June 19, 2014, 03:58:16 PM
Thought I would post an update while thoughts are fresh. I just finished about an hour tour of the CoffeeCrafters facility with Ken Lanthrop in Liberty Lake Washington. Ken has joint ventured with Accrafab ( http://www.accrafab.com/ (http://www.accrafab.com/) ) to try to make a lot of money by filling what he sees as an under served niche in the roaster market. He has some altruistic motives and activities  as well, but those can only be well served with the success of his for profit product.

The link with the most information on user feedback is currently CoffeeCrafters facebook page ( https://www.facebook.com/pages/Coffee-Crafters/510125592368044 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Coffee-Crafters/510125592368044) ). For Ken's design goals see the CoffeeGeek Forum (http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/628638 (http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/628638) ), and CoffeeForum ( http://www.coffeeforums.com/forum/coffee-roasters/10866-fluid-bed-roaster-startup.html (http://www.coffeeforums.com/forum/coffee-roasters/10866-fluid-bed-roaster-startup.html) ). Be sure to scroll down for his responses to posted concerns.

My takeaways (opinion mixed with facts):
Honesty & Integrity – I believe him; straightforward and commonsensical
Product quality, facility capabilities, inventory – exceeded expectations. First rate design and production facility, substantial investment. Choice to team with Accrafab was really smart. There 30 years of experience creates a real synergy with Ken's vision, tinkering ambitions and KISS approach. A LOT of well made and purchased parts in various stages of assembly.
Batch Size – we did 2 roasts, 1/2lb (300g) and 2lb (~900g). I was particularly interested in the low end and I see no problems with the finished product. Ken says he has roasted as little as 1/3lb.

For me the final verdict will or will not be in the cup. I have managed to make my Gene and my Imex produce what I like and I am very encouraged by my visit. I should start roasting when we return to Florida next week,  will post as I go. Let me know what you want to know about this machine and I will try to comply. First roast I think I will do is the Vietnam Temple hills to compare to the drum roast espresso.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: rasqual on June 21, 2014, 01:36:22 PM
I'm impressed.

Would like to add an automation package.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on June 23, 2014, 04:46:39 PM
Im kinda with you Scott, but most of the company folk seem more atuned to the "roasting is a simple process" which I may end up agreeing with. We'll see. I am by nature attentive to details, but open to pursuing the essence of our  quest for nirvana and not getting lost in the forest. The roasts were satisfying on a raw level being able to look in on the beans and sample smells and sounds more directly on the senses. I am contemplating the ability to pull samples at 15 sec intervals with some kind of ladle.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on June 25, 2014, 02:08:53 PM
One owner I contacted said the sonofresco produced a better roast, but the ability to produce much more volume far outweighs the slightly better roast.
I know a fellow GCBCer will lead me in the right direction. I look forward to your roast and input. :)
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on July 01, 2014, 03:43:14 AM
hey kjr55w have you settled in with the new roaster yet??
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on July 03, 2014, 07:10:56 AM
Hi dsil,
I did the first roast Jul 1. Pooched. 2nd roast Guat HueHue to 450F in 8.5min 2-1/2lb. Drinkable at day1 and 2. Still hasn't peaked. 3rd roast this morning at 5am. Lining of flex duct came loose pluging up air flow. Pooched. Replumbed. I am in the middle of a learning curve and too many demands on my time with the holiday coming up.
I did manage to calibrate the two Allclad T223 ovenprobes in ice bath were both within .1 degree F of each other and reading 31.8. Compared to Amprobe TMD-56 reading 32.9.
This roaster is fun. Even (or especially) for dumb ass roaster like me. Still learning to profile the roast and figure the motion logistics.
Now if I could just produce a good espresso. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on July 04, 2014, 08:10:53 AM
Hi Kevin,
  Sounds like you are in deep. I suspected there would be a learning curve going to a manual roaster. Does the company provide you with a list of basic settings based on origin? I just finished 94# with my sonofresco sand was wishing I had the artisan roaster. I need to have my electrical checked out to see if I need a complete upgrade before buying. Thank you for your generous offer, but I trust your judgement and taste.
I look forward to hearing your perfected results.
-Doug
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on July 06, 2014, 05:56:56 PM
 OK! Thats what I'm talkin about. Sitting here after the family get together with a
comforting layer of espresso on the back of the tongue. Just lovely. I normally evaluate" espresso early in the am before any other coffee. But this afternoon after all the family lies and damn lies there was a wave of coffee craving and I made 6 capa's including one for myself. I had mixed a blend from the roasting attempts last week figuring they should be in various states of drinkability. The capa's were just my cup of tea! Really good! So I thought, "lets see how smooth or not the espresso might be"? Well, LAB, it was superb.

How did we arrive at this blissful state that birthed this impromptu posting even before I am back at the roaster on Tuesday? Lets continue the poor saga from my last post. Having pooched the 2nd batch in as many days, I took my armour off and couter attacked. I threw in another of the 2.5 lb of Sumatra that I pooched on the first roast and treated the roaster like I would the Gene. Preheat to 300F on 10KW, let the chamber cool to 165F, throw in the beans, loft to get a good roll going, heat at 10k to 1C, reduce the heat to streach a bit and dump just before target temp. The Sumatra I took to 445F FBT. Then I did the same a Yirg to 457F FBT. I did these to have something to give my buddies that built the roast room for
me and get some more practice, but they were great confidence builders. I don't have the data logging sheets to refer to but these were essentially Kens "put the beans in, turn the heat on...LOOK we're roasting coffee." No serious attempt to profile the roast. Just "git 'er done."
The blend:
4 Sumatra GLOC 445F 3 days rest to
4 Guatamala huehue(WP)450F 5 days rest to
3 Yirg wote konga(NP)457F 3 days rest

I am totally psyched. I just KNOW we are going to make this work. I just love the infinite heat control with 10kw at disposal and may try some jedda mind tricks on the loft control. I even wandered off into rasquel territory wondering about the relationship between psychology and senses. So OF COURSE we have to have automation to believe our senses. Happy.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on July 07, 2014, 07:38:31 PM
Hey Doug,
Is that 94# a marathon or a relay race with yourself? Almost sounds like torture. 50+ hours?
Kevin
Hope you have recovered. I remember 3lb sessions with the Gene. Not even close.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on July 07, 2014, 08:34:38 PM
Relay. I took a day off work and knocked out half of it the 2 days after work. Was nice when I got paid for it, but dreadful doing it.
I don't want to dread roasting, I want to enjoy it. Electrician coming tomorrow evening to give his opinion on what needs to be done and approx costs. Hopefully CC will run The free ship special again soon.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on July 16, 2014, 03:19:13 PM
Thought I would share some pictures: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ijdpz8z8o74bh2r/AAALN1B_-0V4EohdoM6FGoxna (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ijdpz8z8o74bh2r/AAALN1B_-0V4EohdoM6FGoxna)
This is a link to my dropbox with ~ 2.1MB PDF file with 23 pictures. These are low res. Send a PM if anyone wants originals (~4.1MB) and I will put them up too.

After 10 roasts I am feeling comfortable with this roaster and I am glad I bought it. I have the TMD-56 Amprobe working with a K type bead thermocouple covered with kapton tape routed alongside the allclad oven probe and they basically agree on bean temp. I have saved the time-temp profile for the last 6 roasts and got the TMD-56 working with Artisan 0.8 Roaster Scope opensource software, so I am ready to roast and record in Roaster Scope.

Pro:
1. Quality materials; stainless fasteners; powder coated metal both sides.
2. Well insulated heater.
3. Plenty of power available and "infinite" control from 0-10kw with the normal electric lag. Want to plot this with automation in mind.  My normal batch size is 2-1/2lb (1134g) but I am sure 5-6lb will be no problem.
4. Heater unit replacement = $90. With about a 100 in the field Ken said none have been needed and the original prototype has beengoing a long time. I like the off-the-shelf mentality.
5. No loose nuts and bolt combinations; everything is either a fastened stud to which a nut is attached or a tapped hole or nutsert to which a screw is fastened.
6. 8lb bean cooler is slicker than owl shit! 2-1/2 lbs cools to "cold" in less than 90 sec.
7. Roaster is dirt simple to work on and very adaptable to tinkering.

Con:
1. When the heat is reduced from 10k tosay 7k to streach and then turned back to 10k a bean loft adjustment is needed because the loft motor and heater are on the same circuit. No biggie since you are already "hands on" the whole time but something to consider in the automation algo.

2. At the lower charges (<2 lb) the loft adjustment is sensitive. The lowest I have done is 500g. I have a pot vernier coming but am also working on a simpler solution with the 3-d printer: a pot cap with a lever.

Will work on posting some profiles from the roasts next.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on July 16, 2014, 04:48:18 PM
I too have been looking at this and the northern roasters one.

The thing that bothers me most about this is, they brag on how 'fast' you can roast coffee.  Also, The 'it pays for itself in a little as a month' reminds me of a sleazy infomercial or high pressure used car salesman pitch.

Another thing that really bothers me is, they came out with their first model what 8 months ago for a lesser price.  Now this 'new' model is on the streets with what are really major modifications and a significant price increase (probably justifiable given the changes)  What about all those people who bought the 5, only to feel like well, yah, you got the prototype, here is  slicker one, sorry about your timing.   Whos' to know if a year down the road they come out with the nifter neater Model 7 and the 5 grand I paid for the 6 well... sorry, outdated model.

The quickness thing,  roasting beans in 6 or 7 minute, at least to me seems very fast, (im not even going to comment on the comment they made about less time, just get the popcorn popper and a soup can geez) and you are not fully developing them that way.  It is almost like, well we can give you roasted coffee, but if you want it 'professionally roasted' well....  Don't get me wrong I own a few I roasts which yes I do still use so know all about the 8 minute roast, but for a better coffee, umm NO!!

I love the concept and yes know you can loft them higher to stretch out the time but that only goes so far, it's akin to ok lets keep them at 325 for ten minutes...do we really want to do that?    Maybe I just don't understand the fluid bed process well enough but to me it just seems like you don't have a lot of real control over the process, which is why most people kind of go that route to begin with.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: jspain on July 16, 2014, 05:44:49 PM
kjr55w,

Thanks for the pics!

Interesting roaster..... A lot different than the Sono and appears to have the variables needed for a more hands on experience, I feel hot air roasters do have some advantages yet I still "lust" for a 1K drum, So many choices and cost is a variable that is still important to me.

I'd be interested in what you find as you do the 1/2# roasts.. Thanks again for the update and the pics. 
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on July 17, 2014, 05:35:55 AM
Thanks for all the detailed info. As far as Aaron's concern about the fast roast times, I don't see a reason why it can't be stretched as much as you want since you can control the air and the heat separately. It sounds like a great  cost effective option for  roasting  volume.
-Doug
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on July 17, 2014, 09:51:16 AM
Hi Aaron, no correction from me, because I am not fully detached from these concerns you raise (except for 1), which were shared by me when I started down this path. But I am moving away from them and I will share my perspective as to why.

The thing that bothers me most about this is, they brag on how 'fast' you can roast coffee.  Also, The 'it pays for itself in a little as a month' reminds me of a sleazy infomercial or high pressure used car salesman pitch.

This 'fast' thing bothered me too until I visited the company and saw Ken and then someone else roast some coffee. What they say and what they do when roasting are two different things. Even in the video he said 'about 8 minutes' and the overlay says 9.25. I think it was actually longer than that. They really were trying to develope the roast both times, but what they were talking about was I think directed to their target market, that underserved commercial shop with 12-25 lb a week needs. In that regard I think they understand their target market much better than we do. This is really a low priced commercial roaster, not a high priced hobby roaster. There is a very good commercial roaster near my house that roasts on a gianormous ambex. I would dearly love to pick his brain and learn from him, but I don't because that is his livelyhood and I don't want to intrude on that. Most of us were there at one time and understand that. So when I run short I buya couple lbs of his espresso blend and have a short conversation. Ken is not focused on us and I don't hold that against him.


Another thing that really bothers me is, they came out with their first model what 8 months ago for a lesser price.  Now this 'new' model is on the streets with what are really major modifications and a significant price increase (probably justifiable given the changes)  What about all those people who bought the 5, only to feel like well, yah, you got the prototype, here is  slicker one, sorry about your timing.   Whos' to know if a year down the road they come out with the nifter neater Model 7 and the 5 grand I paid for the 6 well... sorry, outdated model.

I actually approach this from the opposite perspective. I would be more upset if they had NOT come out with the new model and am thrilled they did it so fast. I have been on the leading bleeding edge so many times, it borders on Masochism. $1000 for a dot-matrix printer that took three full days of my time to get working because they printed the pin-outs backwards; $6000 for S-100 bus computer paid for dearly with all my Anheuser Busch employee stock; $2300 recently for 3-d printer that now sells for $1200. The list is endless. But I never felt 'taken' by any of those choices. Plus, it seemed to me that CoffeeCrafters was bending over backwards to please their customers. I know that they shipped a new roaster to replace a freight damaged one while they dickered with the shipping company. I am pretty sure a large majority of the model V owners are OK on this. I could be wrong.

The quickness thing,  roasting beans in 6 or 7 minute, at least to me seems very fast, (im not even going to comment on the comment they made about less time, just get the popcorn popper and a soup can geez) and you are not fully developing them that way.  It is almost like, well we can give you roasted coffee, but if you want it 'professionally roasted' well....  Don't get me wrong I own a few I roasts which yes I do still use so know all about the 8 minute roast, but for a better coffee, umm NO!!
I love the concept and yes know you can loft them higher to stretch out the time but that only goes so far, it's akin to ok lets keep them at 325 for ten minutes...do we really want to do that?    Maybe I just don't understand the fluid bed process well enough but to me it just seems like you don't have a lot of real control over the process, which is why most people kind of go that route to begin with.


This is the one that is hardest to be open minded about, because all of my short 4 years of coffee roasting has been on drum roasters. After the gene cafe, I took a roasting class with Terry Davis at Ambex in clearwater. When I started the class,I was of the opinion that all these aroma and flavors that our esteemed cuppers pick out was a bunch of BS. Terry made me see that even though I could't do it (and still can't), it was in fact real and a result of training.
Well, at some point in all the reading about fluid bed and hands on with the new roaster, there was an 'AH-HA!' moment where something made sense to me. Most of the fluid bed roasters that Michael Sivetz designed and built from the 80's on were true fluid bed and had to be scientifically designed to use a specific batch (charge) weight (1/4 bag, 15 lb etc) because of the loft motor and roast chamber choices. THere was a 'sweet spot' of variables for a given charge. This was fine for commercial setting and has a lot of advocates.
The Artisan 6 is not a true fluid bed roaster, it is a 'spouting bed' resulting from the conical roast chamber and the diffusion of the loft motor air. In both cases the coffee is roasted by transfering heat into the moving bed of beans. We do the same thing in a drum roaster. There is a lot of science going on here with the thermo and fluid dynamics which I do not understand, but I don't need to understand it to use it. Intuitively, I don't see how enough heat gets transferred into the beans through that cylinder of hot air moving through the center, but it does. And most important in the spouting bed configuration...it is fully controllable over a large range of charges. The higher the 'spout', the less heat gets transferred because it is simply being moved 'through' the bean mass. The lower the 'spout' the more heat transfer. Understand the parameters of the heat transfer and you can control the roast.
Here is an artisan graph of a very early roast #425 of Guat HueHue. I entered the times and temps into the artisan software manually because I didn't have the TMD-56 meter working yet: See attachment
 

This looks very much like a sonofresco profile to me.
Here are the last six roast time-temp curves graphs downloaded from the Amprobe showing 6.5 - 9.5 minute roast times and only one went into 2c:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2r160p9qh922dgx/GCBC_CCA6_R429-R434_TTprofile_2014jul16.pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2r160p9qh922dgx/GCBC_CCA6_R429-R434_TTprofile_2014jul16.pdf)
Group 1: R429_CRV_454f_T0710_20140710233600-L1
Costa Rican Volcanes 2 years old 454F 7.1 min
Group 2: R430_CRV_455f_T0840_20140710233600-L2
Costa RicanVolcanes 2 years old 455F 8.4 min 2c
Group 3: R431_MAC_459f_T0650_20140710233600-L3
Mexican Altura Chiapas 459F 6.5 min
Group 4: R432_GHC_F455_T0950_20140711141909-L4
Guat HueHue CODEH 455 9.5 min 'profiled'
Group 5: R433_BMS_F449_T0950_20140711145240-L5
Brazil Mogiana YB 449F 9.5 min 'profiled'
Group 6: R434_VCD_F449_T0880_20140711152350-L6
Vietnam CauDat Temple Hills 449F 8.9 min 'profiled'
There is good reason that old farts (talking about me and a majority of our club membership I'm sure) are skeptical and cynical... too often it is justified. But I am always curious and looking over the horizon for better. I like what I see here.
Kevin
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on July 17, 2014, 01:55:25 PM
Thank you for the detailed reply Kevin.  I was not trying to disrespect you or the roaster in any way, as I honestly don't know enough about it to do so, but was concerned on how fast it does roast.

Ive roasted on a LOT of different roasters and experimented on some really goofy and well im talking about me, so don't have to be polite, ok stupid things and some stuff just to say I did.  Some of the ways I won't share because I don't want a brick thrown at me but Ive done good and not so good coffee.   Nozzle block coffee anyone?  The nuke will probably know what I am talking about.

I have learned my Behmore very well and can tickle some really nice stuff out of it.  I have learned my I roast very well and while it gives good coffee, I have to say that the Behmore seems to bring out more subtleties in it because it does not roast in 7 or 8 minutes like the I roar does.

Heat gun coffee, popcorn popper coffee, stir fry coffee,... camp fire coffee...I even built a solar oven to roast coffee and yes it did work not too shabby, but is rather difficult to control the heat.   I even went to putting coffee in an aluminum well cup / pot and dunking that down into almost 500 degree hot oil just to see if the heat would transfer.  (ok so I did admit to one stupid ass roasting attempt).  All of my experiments, I find that the best coffees I have produced have been roasted over a bit of time, ie not rushed.   

Can you get maybe 12 to 14 minutes out of this thing?   Not sure but running coffee in a CFB roaster could this possibly dry them out or something detrimental running them that long? 

It's not off the table yet, im just trying to hone down between the northern roaster which is a china import however i have been hearing a lot of good about it or this one which seems really nifty as well IF it can really perform as I need.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on July 17, 2014, 05:09:59 PM
I did roast on my boat once,  just had to try it, it worked ok.  Now if i can get the espresso thing working good I might be onto something.

java on the water.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on July 17, 2014, 08:02:31 PM
Aaron, I have attached the very first roast #424 Sumatra on 2014jul01 I did on the Artisan 6 which I dropped at 17 min and 416 F.  The heater was set to 5kw and left there, mostly just from my ignorance. Very pooched. Had a peanut aroma after a day. After reading your post I still had that roast so I made a shot...had not changed any for the better, still baked, non-dimensional. But my point is that with 10kw to work with almost anything in between should be possible. Thats what I'm going to explore: expanding the development to compare to the quick roast and drum roast. And I guess I'll do all the experiments on a boat, but all I have is a 15' sea-doo and only 50 Amp availabile. Oh well, I'll make do.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: peter on July 17, 2014, 08:10:41 PM
I don't have a way to chart my roasts like that, but that ramp looks similar to what my roaster puts out, except that I'd finish a Sumatra 35-40 degrees after the beginning of 1C, with an overall time around 16min.  That may be where you produced the grassy notes; a long-ish roast and too light.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on July 18, 2014, 05:45:58 AM
Thanks Peter, I will jack up the heat going into 1c and see what that produces.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: peter on July 18, 2014, 07:45:00 AM
Thanks Peter, I will jack up the heat going into 1c and see what that produces.

It'll be different w/o the thermal mass of a drum, but I push it hard after ~285* (thinking by 5:00 the drying phase is over) but then slow it down ~30* before 1C so that it doesn't rush right through 1C, and I can get some flavor development between the end of 1C and end of roast.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on July 18, 2014, 03:08:19 PM
Not sure how it works with your sumatra's but with kona's the opposite can happen, if you heat them up too quick, they can get grassy.  Waiting to hear how it works for you.  I am really interested in hearing how this roaster performs.  Like I said I have no problems with a fluid bed, just wondering if it can be controlled as precisely as we sometimes need on some coffee's

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on July 19, 2014, 08:42:42 AM
Results from R435 based on Peter's comments. The PDF attached has the artisan Roaster Scope chart but it is a little screwed up because I forgot to reset the sample rate back to 6 sec from 30 sec, so following it is the Amprobe 6 sec interval plot which reflects what really happened. I adjusted the heat turn down to about 10* before 1c instead of 30* because of the responsiveness of the air roaster compared to drum, and I rampped it back up at the end to get the finish temp up to 445. I don't know what that panic attack did to the roast but we'll see in the cup. The roast looks good to me.
I think I am going to shorten the total roast time and end at the same finish temp by increase heat to 7.5kw in the beginning to get a faster RoR, increase to 9kw(as here) before 1c, then decrease to 7.5kw (instead of 6kw as here).
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on July 19, 2014, 08:53:19 AM
I routed the ET T1 Tc probe into the top of the exhaust tube on the bean cooler, so the R435 charts above show very clearly the drop time (T1 rises sharply) and the subsequent cooldown. I like it.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on July 19, 2014, 05:06:09 PM
This is a second roast #436 of the same bean (Sumatra Org GLOC) with a total time of 11:33. The first roast #435 is overlaid (underlaid?) in the background as lighter curve with total time of 16:18.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dfluke on July 21, 2014, 10:32:35 PM
Thanks for posting all this. I have been looking at this roaster for a while, especially since the old model's price point was very nice. I don't doubt the new model is worth the increase, so it's nice to see someone posting some great results. If I had the extra income I'd pick one of these up in a heartbeat, but timing and the fact I'm a busy Dad means it can wait.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on August 01, 2014, 03:00:12 PM
Well, I just pulled the trigger on one of these today. Thank you for posting all of your tips and feedback on this machine. Looks like I have some learnin' to do.
-Doug
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on August 01, 2014, 04:07:14 PM
I am very torn between a 2k gas roaster (although like electric) and this one.  price is about the same on each. Given this is a 10KW roaster it has the BTU's.  That's like a furnace heating strip there.

I don't mind fluid bed roasters in fact that is what I cut my teeth coffee roasting on.  Was just not sure if this one had the control that one like us would need.  Yes I know some coffee shops just 'roast' coffee, and don't care about super perfection, we are not like that though and the sellers of this seemed more intent on pushing how 'fast' it could roast a batch of coffee.  Fast is not a selling point for me.  Fast is not necessarily good.

dsil please let us know how you like it and how it works for  you, I am very interested in your results and experiences on this.

I AM getting a bigger roaster / better roaster, still trying to figure out what I want though.  I do know 1 LB is not enough and I am NOT paying 11 grand for a 1 or 2k roaster.  That's just more than I can justify for it.  Some of the overseas stuff looks very promising, and no overseas made does NOT mean crap.  Ive seen plenty of quality things come from overseas *hitachi, sony* as two examples,  and plenty of total crap come from the us.  Ford comes to mind.  as an example.  (ooh fighting words hehe)

As far as electronics I had a Taiwanese company make me some Ghz range electronics (we'll leave it at that) that are rock solid so know you can get good stuff anywhere if you look for it and demand quality.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: rasqual on August 01, 2014, 04:08:47 PM
Artisan 6 Commercial Fluid Bed Coffee and Cacao Roaster from Coffee Crafters ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1_dgbUj_QI#ws[/url])

Here's a video of the Artisan 6 doing a roast. Very interesting!


ARGH! Where did he get that plastic container he charges the thing with? The beans. I've been wanting one just like that.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: peter on August 01, 2014, 04:18:40 PM
It's either a dry cereal container, or a pet food storage thingie.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: BoldJava on August 01, 2014, 05:14:13 PM
Rubbermaids, $10. 22 Cup.

http://www.rubbermaid.com/Category/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?CatName=FoodStorage&SubcatId=BulkStorage&Prod_ID=RP092096 (http://www.rubbermaid.com/Category/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?CatName=FoodStorage&SubcatId=BulkStorage&Prod_ID=RP092096)
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on August 04, 2014, 11:04:47 AM
Walmart. $5.88 32 cup
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on August 04, 2014, 06:52:35 PM
Hi Kevin,
 Has the Artisan software been a great help to your roasting? Can you watch the roast progress in real time on your computer ?
Thanks,
Doug
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on August 05, 2014, 08:07:15 AM
Hey Doug,
That is affirmative on both counts. It is quite amazing software. Not well documented but very rich and capable, you just have to dig in. When I had iPhones I used the Roastmaster software and it is also feature rich and capable. To me the holy grail for roasting is to be able to hold everything consistent except for one variable. I don't know how you can do that without some form of logging and automation. The artisan support seems to be right on the cusp of that full automation capability with the latest release of the aArtisanQ_PID_4_3, if not there already. But quite a learning curve.
I started trying some 250g batches last night after returning from vacation. Almost chopped the head off my ET probe in the bean cooler. It seems to have recovered this morning, but I ordered some more probes anyway. The 1/2 lb batches are going to take a lot of practice to find the right probe placement and loft. I was doing Brazil YB Nat and couldn't help trying a shot and capa this morning. Even the first roast that I let the BT drop after 1C was great! I know we don't need all the gizmos to enjoy fresh coffee, but I find it mentally stimulating and fun.
Congrats on pulling the trigger on this one. I think it is perfect for the 5-6 lb batches. It will be great to have someone to commiserate with.
Kevin
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: sea330 on August 08, 2014, 06:43:19 AM
I had the honor to sample some of the coffee roasted on the Coffee Crafters roaster, I can say without any reservations it was great, color was perfect for a Sumatran FT Organic GLOC and the flavor was outstanding. I will be picking up one of these roasters this month. Leaving for Seattle on the 14th of Aug will be spending a day or two in the Spokane area and get a chance to test it out myself. Thanks to Kevin for stepping up to be the first in the club to purchase one of these, I feel confident after going through the sample, this roaster has great promise for being a low cost high quality roaster, simple to maintain, easy to use, and good roasting capacity, repeating profiles might be a little challenge at first but With Kevin on board those details will be worked out easily.
Rich
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on August 15, 2014, 09:21:18 PM
I have been roasting and evaluating coffee and really liking this machine, but all with an eye toward automating for better evaluations and control with the soon to be released TC4 boards and PID software. In evaluating thermocouples and other sensors, I saw a need to understand more about the spouted bed thermodynamics which led me to a good bit of recent literature and studies  (2011 Spouted and Spout-Fluid Beds: Fundamentals and Applications Norman Epstein, John R. Grace(Google eBook) looks interesting but $96.
Anyway I performed a simple experiment by dying some beans with food dye and dropping one into the spouting bed. Well worthwhile and informative:
For a 1 min video of the red marker bean being spouted follow this dropbox link (165MB):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/15j3ls7spzlob0o/20140815_redBeanPathExperiment.mp4 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/15j3ls7spzlob0o/20140815_redBeanPathExperiment.mp4)
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on August 16, 2014, 10:51:59 AM
You are a sick, sick, man Kevin  ;)
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on August 16, 2014, 10:53:42 AM
I finally finished hooking mine up today, and threw a roast in just winging it.
Looks and smells good, only the cup will tell.
Very impressed with the machine, and build quality.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on August 16, 2014, 01:51:49 PM
Sadly, I must agree with your sentiments, Doug.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on August 16, 2014, 04:05:45 PM
I understand the key is to know what your machine can do, and how to get it there, but with that said.

Do you believe the machine can do as little as say a pound at a time, and up to 4 or 5 pounds at a time and do them well without really having to stretch it's capabilities or pray really really hard that it turns out ok?

Ive been reading through the notes and so far it seems like I might be leaning towards this one here.  I really like the thought of electric over the gas models in any roaster really..  Just preference for ease of use, but have heard so much from many places that electric never gave you the real 'control' you needed and is limited on the higher end of roasting weights, ie they just can't get there. 

Has anyone tried 4 or 5 lbs yet and how did it do?
Ive been looking and I can put this in the garage right by the power box, and vent it right out the side wall outside... or hell just open the garage door and vent it in the garage and let it waft out.

Thank you
Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on August 16, 2014, 05:21:55 PM
Hi Aaron,
My 2 cents after 25 roasts. I think the CCA6 does a great job on 1 lb and up. My normal batch size is 2.5 lb (1134g) which gives me a little over 2 lb roasted. Two 14 oz bags to give away and enough for me to sample.
Two weeks ago I did seven 250g batches, same as I do in the Gene. If all I wanted to do was roast the beans in a controlled manner, it is a piece of cake, control the heat and air, look listen and smell until done.  But I am more interested in consistancy and repeatability. With the wee charges the challange is getting the time temp data recorded accurately or at least consistantly`and that means placing the thermocouples in the "right" spot. With 1 lb and up it is no problem, Ken's suggestions are on the mark: 1" away from the roast chamber and some minimum distance into the fluid bed. I believe most of the owners are doing 5 and up lbs. The most I have done is 3 lbs, still plenty of heat and air available. I had the most luck with the 250g batches placing the bead just above the bed and letting the expanding beans move into it so the last temps are the most accurate. I am working on a number of solutions, which I may not need if I can just afford 3 lb and up batches!
I do really like this roaster, it is really fun to roast. I know Doug  is not going to dread the big jobs any more. My only concern is still cup quality, but I have already produced some great coffee on this roaster and i can oly imagine itgetting better as I learn.  Last week I did a 250 g batch of Brazil to 447F and my espresso note at day 3 was "Sweetness fairies dancing on top of the tongue." My daughter (a doppio fan) agreed.
Kevin
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on August 16, 2014, 06:21:09 PM
thank you kjr.
That was the thing that initially concerned me with this roaster was the cup quality.   Their advertisement really seemed to be pushing how 'fast' it can make coffee,  fast is not necessarily a good thing!!   I was worried that it was going to be a coffee furnace more than a coffee roaster and cook them too fast, or that to get just that 'one' spot of air flow and heat to make it work how WE like it, was going to be such a micrometer adjustment you have to hone in on that it's going to take a lot of trial and error to get the thing to do something it wasn't really made to do as a primary goal.

Im seeing now that it appears to be very adjustable and able to put out a good cup of coffee here.    My typical roast size is going to be probably in the 1 to 3 lb range.  Maybe more for when I get a CAzul that is awesome and i got everyone at work wanting some too.

thanks for your detailed reports on this roaster.

Now i need to figure out how big a pita it is going to be to get it shipped to my house here if I do get one.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on August 19, 2014, 08:42:16 AM
Aaron,
I thought others may find Ken Lathrop's response yesterday regarding the bean test and automation informative:

<Good test. I did a similar test early on to see how round hoppers performed compared to square ones. Pretty interesting. The first 2 prototypes I build had PID temperature controllers as I was convinced that you needed them to produce consistent roasts. After doing many tests, and cuppings I came to the conclusion that they are not necessary and found no evidence that they produced any noticeable benefits. I did notice that you can definitely roast too fast on a fluid bed roaster. We did a huge cupping test with a bag of beans roasting from 5 to 15 minute roast times in 30 second intervals. What we found was that beyond 7.5 minutes it was difficult to tell much difference in taste. I did notice some differences with certain beans finish, ie some sun dried processes held chaff to the bean much longer which showed on shorter roasts.

I've been roasting faster at lower temperatures lately as a personal preference. I'll bring the temperature up fairly quickly and  hold the temperature between 500 and 520 degrees through the end of the roast. I haven't cupped this coffee against the same bean roasted at a higher temperature so I don't have any evidence it's better than another profile. I'm just cautious not to roast too quickly. I roasted a pound of beans in 2 minutes 40 seconds one time. Nasty stuff and the chaff burst into flames on the way up the shoot :o).

Thanks for the update.

Happy roasting! Ken>
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on August 19, 2014, 03:31:30 PM
Thank you for this reply KJR.   I am remembering back when I used to use my I roast regularly,  I need to dust that thing off and give it a whirl again for old times sake.
Yes it DID make good coffee and yes the average roast time was in the 7 to 8 minute range.  Much more and you had very dark beans.  I know my standard setting on it was roughly 3 minutes at 375 degrees  3 minutes at 405 degrees, bumped it to 410 as the machine aged and heat was a bit lower and at the end id set it to 5 minutes but typically pull it at about 2 minutes at 430 degrees.  Using sight, but mostly smell and sound as my indicators when to stop the roast.

I also remember playing with a poppery I and roasting that way with a cambell soup can chimney and using the amount of beans to control the loft, and figuring out how to do a batch in about 3 minutes...yep it was coffee!!!   Point being I am pretty versed in CFB roasters.

Knowing that it would do 500 G batches is good to know.  I am thinking of my supplier Royal, they give 8 oz samplers,  Id probably do it in the behmore to sample and big batches in this machine.

2.5 lbs sounds like the ideal batch, end up with 2 lbs out the hatch give or take a bit.  Now I need to clean the pig sty out of the garage and make room for this beast.  I think I am about talked myself into getting one.    I believe that if I start roasting coffee in bigger batches, I do have a market here.  I have had numerous folks ask me about it if I would sell it and I think I might move into that territory here.

Thank you everyone for your question and answer session for this machine.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: dsil on August 20, 2014, 05:05:37 PM
I have run about 10 roasts through mine, and am very pleased with the roaster. Using the temp probe and a stopwatch, I have been able to closely mimic the sonofresco profile, and tweak slightly depending on bean type. The adjustments needed are small but frequent, and I have picked up on it pretty quickly. I highly recommend it if you are on the fence. I was, and am very happy I bought it.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on August 21, 2014, 05:27:14 PM
kjr  520 degrees sounds VERY hot.  What temperature is that there?  How does it translate to the temps we normally 'speak in' ie 400's

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on August 22, 2014, 05:50:27 AM
Aaron,
The 520 refers to the temp controller at the topof the control panel (Love Controls TCS thermocouple switch) which uses the stainless J type thermocouple at the top of the tube coming out of the heater unit to measure what I would call inlet temperature and is used only as a safety temp controller to limit the heat coming in to the roast chamber to whatever value you set it to. The bean temp is obviously in the roast chamber and measured with the allclad meat thermometer or whatever thermocouples you put there.
Kevin
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on November 27, 2014, 12:21:08 PM
Now that you have been using this roaster for a while, how do you like it?

Any advice / suggestions for someone thinking to get one?   Things we need to know or look out for with it?

Thanks
Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on November 28, 2014, 01:53:36 PM
Hi Aaron,
I am very happy with the roaster, I have not used my other two roasters since I got it. It fills my non commercial needs perfectly. I cannot say what the issues might be in a commercial production setting, I only roast about 8lb a week, but I look forward to using it and only wish I had more time to experiment with it.
Like every other roaster the first roast of the day seems to suck up heat and I find I like to warm it up well to get the consistancy I want for my limited roasting.
Also the bean loft seems to me to be very important to the controlled transfer of heat and I  would like to have time to experiment with a method for standardizing that parameter.
All but about 3 of my 45 roasts have produced good to great coffee. I have come to think that  the major part of that result is because of the great people like you and our other distributors that make the effort to get good beans for us. No garbage in = good chance for no garbage out.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on November 28, 2014, 04:10:54 PM
Thank you kjr.  Id not really be using it for commercial or really hammering it myself to be honest but at times need to make some coffee.  The price of this machine seems very good for what you get and id rather not have to deal with propane / butane / natural gas.  One more 'thing' to go wrong.  Electric is clean and easy and won't leak and go kaboom in the garage  8)

Ill probably be getting one here by the end of the year with a bit of luck.  Maybe when I am on my christmas vacation i can order it and get it in and get it hooked up and play with it then.

Bean loft is important for even roasting that is for sure.  My early days with my I roast taught me that and just a slight change can make a big difference.  Basically you want enough movement to cycle the beans around in there yet not enough to blow them all over the place.  If the air is moving too fast the heat may not transfer to the bean properly enough either, latency does count for a bit.  Not enough and you can tip them / scorch them.

It has two elements in it.  Are they either just on or off or can you adjust the heat on them?

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on November 29, 2014, 08:38:53 AM
Aaron, the two elements each have an on/off switch on the panel, but the model 6 added continuously variable heat control through the SSR's, so there is really no need I can see to "mix n match". I just turn them both on. The pot is marked from 1.6K to 10K I think and on my 2.5 lb "halfbatches" I usually start at 9K to add a lot of heat to start (a la Scott Rao). Another factor I have not had time to explore is the fact that    I have 3 phase service here at work and I measure the voltage on the single phase circuit leg at 208V, so it is not 240V to the heater elements. Maybe I am a little "underpowered"?
My focus on the loft control came about because of the smaller batches I have done and the narrow band of control on the pot. Recently I have had a couple of batches that reached degree of roast (lightness) such that a "surging" motionof the bean mass was triggered, i.e the power of the loft air flow was lifting the entire mass of beans up and down with a "whump-whump-whump" sound. The solution obviously is to turn down the air flow a bit, but the narrow band to work with on the rheostat makes that kind of tricky. Also I think a variac on the loft motor might be beneficial to disengage it from heat power setting changes.
Kevin
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on November 29, 2014, 08:45:44 AM
Thak you kjr, so it is variable, that is awesome.  That in essence gives you two tools to control heat.  The actual heater and the amount of loft (to some extent)

I believe my mind is made up and I am getting one.  maybe before christmas.  Have a major repair on my projector to do and the engine light just blinked on the car today so have no idea wtf THAT is yet.   sigh.... which one of you told the car I had some spare money in the bank?   ::grumble::

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: aaronranson on January 14, 2016, 11:46:15 AM
After having the roaster for a good period of time now, are there any insights you have? I currently have a 1# Sono and am thinking about adding a 2# Sono but am also looking at the Artisan 6. I will be doing commercial roasting up to 100# a week.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: kjr55w on January 14, 2016, 02:30:50 PM
I am still very happy with  this roaster. It is very simple, efficient, and well made. I have done about 160 roasts, usually 1500g (3.3lb green) and do 3-5 back to back roasts in 1.5 to 2 hrs. The bean cooler is a pleasure to use (about 1.5  min). Have smoothed the curves out ( Rao) and try to eliminate the plateau after first crack and the increasing ROR subsequent to that by agressive use of heat and fan (spouting bed). I have 3 phase power and am only getting 210v at the outlet. Try to get the full 240 for larger roasts. The newest roasters are modularized (separate chafe collector)
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: aaronranson on January 16, 2016, 08:17:54 AM
Thank you for the update KJ
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on January 17, 2016, 02:07:09 PM
I am definately going to get one of these, just have to get calmed down here a bit.
So much stuff happening all at once on me, my life is a tornado now and every damned day I wake up, I wonder which way I am going to be blown / dragged next :X

Mine will be in the garage, I am seriously thinking I don't need a cooler / chaff collector.  Let it blow outside.  I can hook up a fan if the unit's fan don't do it and just huff it right outside.  A bean cooler I am thinking I can make with a vacuum and a 5 gallon can and colander.  you have to move the beans anyways in this thing to cool them right?  I am thinking one of those 30 dollar 5 gallon bucket head vacs and a mesh screen and I have a pretty nifty cooler.  I'll redneck enguneers it :D

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: zar on July 17, 2017, 12:06:17 PM
Hello everybody.  This is my first post here, I found this thread while trying to "troubleshoot" my experience with an Artisan Roaster.  Apologies for bumping an old thread in advance if that's frowned upon.  I've been roasting coffee for about a year.  I started off on a Behmor and was able to get a decent roast out of it and used it for about 6 months.  I had some cash to spare towards the end of the year so I went in on an Artisan 2.5 from Coffee Crafters.  I know it's not exactly the same thing, but close enough, I reckon? 

Thing is, I haven't been able to roast anything as "good" as what I could get on my Behmor.  I understand there are far more variables with this machine vs. the Behmor, but I'm running in to the same problems over and over.  The issue is, my beans all end up tasting dull, bland, grassy and have similar aroma.  I typically try to roast up to 2nd crack or about 30 seconds into 2nd crack max.  I don't have anything charted, but I did discover I was roasting too hot/too fast (was getting some funky looking beans).  Since paying more attention to temp, I have been getting a more consistent looking bean (similar to what's pictured on page 3 of this thread) but have really only gotten about one decent batch out of many.  I've been trying to get to 300 degrees at 5 minutes and first crack within the next 5 minutes.  I've noticed I've been getting to 1c by as early as 8.5. 

Can anyone help point me in the right direction?  I don't think it's a hardware issue, I'm willing to bet it's a user error.  I think I've narrowed it down to bean loft height compared to my batch size (so far I've averaged about 1.5 pounds per batch) but it's hard to say if it's too high or too low. 
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on July 17, 2017, 12:49:02 PM
Hello Zar and welcome to the GCBC.  Nope, we are not mad at bumping threads up, we do it all the time.

It sounds to me like you are heating the beans up too fast initially.  That roaster can pour some energy into the beans and also, fluid bed roasters don't need to go 18 minutes to roast, Ive seen plenty of roasts that come out excellent at 8 minutes or so.  Taking them into second crack, that right there is killing a lot of the flavor off.  In second crack you are basically burning off the origins of the beans flavor and caramelizing everything.

How much at a shot are you roasting?  What wattage you putting it at?  Try to keep the temperature increase about a degree every few seconds and you should be fine.  Don't panic if it's a little bit fast on initial startup but by 200 degrees you should have the temp ramp rate about where you want it.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: zar on July 17, 2017, 01:38:22 PM
Thanks Ascholten.  I've been averaging about 1.5 pounds (enough for me to get through the week and to give a little to family to sample) but I've done as little as 1 and as much as 2.5.  The Artisan 2.5 doesn't have the same wattage setting that the 6 does, but more of a generic power/heat level setting (I think this can be translated but I can't access the manual at the moment).  But I've been roasting at "7" (out of 10). 

If getting to second crack is indeed my problem, would it be advisable to cut the heat after 2nd crack and let the beans run at around 300 degrees for a few minutes?  Or am I reading too much into this?
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on July 17, 2017, 01:46:45 PM
7 of 10 sounds a bit hot.  Try 5 and see how that works for you and adjust up slightly from there.  You can roast down to half a pound easy on that machine I am betting so while you tinker you can do in smaller batches so if it turns out not too nice, you didn't use a bunch of greens to do that.
Second crack, you are taking it too deep into it.  Many coffee's you really want to keep in first, or just barely touching second.  Once you hit second you have to have your game on because the coffee can get away from you very fast and go into 3rd crack (start on fire, NOT fun).  You can generally tell when you are approaching second, there will be a bit of smoke, well more than from first, and it will smell very acrid, you may hear a few feint snaps too.  Turn off heat and cool at that point see how it works for you.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: zar on July 18, 2017, 06:46:21 AM
Thanks, Aaron, sound advice for sure!
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Java Girl on July 12, 2018, 12:18:03 PM
I used the Sonofresco for years. I still have it but I did buy the Artisan 2.5 I LOVE IT. It’s simpler and faster. You do have to watch it every minute though unlike the Sonofresco which has the computer program.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on July 12, 2018, 05:53:56 PM
Java Girl.  Glad to hear you like the machine that well.  Ive been saying for a bit they are great roasters.
I do have to say to you though, you mentioned, you have to watch it every minute.  You should do that with ANY coffee roaster.  Never walk away from a roaster that is active.  It is way too easy to start fires in any roaster, (trust me, I even managed in an I roast) and if you are not there when that happens, you could be in serious trouble.

Seriously though, walking away from a roast in process is a very bad idea no matter what from a safety perspective.
I have actually purposely pushed coffee to the flame point on every roaster I own, I did this because I needed to see when it happens, ie what stage, warning signs im getting there and most importantly how the machine reacts to that event.  Especially considering the Artisan is a fluid bed with insane power, I needed to see if I was going to turn the thing into a fireball sprinkler or what if it ever caught on fire.  That makes a big difference between if I just sit there with a small hand held extinguisher or arm the Halon system I have in my garage.

The Artisan IS simpler if you just want to roast and go but it also has every capability of being very complex if you want to experiment as well.  I have also purposely held coffee right on the verge of crack (turn heat down and let it soak for about 45 seconds) for development and then pushed it through.  That's hard to do on most other machines, they either don't give you that kind of control on temperature, or are slower to react to temp changes because they are running at almost 100 percent capacity heatwise.

I have also used my Artisan to roast cocoa beans too.  Totally different experience there and Id recommend a stainless colendar to put on top of the roast chamber because of the nature of cocoa, you need a ton of loft to circulate them right and if one gets caught right it'll throw it into the neighbors yard, so you need a better containment for cocoa beans.  the stainless colendar also works wonders too if you are roasting over rated capacity.  I have put 8 lbs into mine at a shot.  I have the artisan 6.  The limiting factor believe it or not is NOT the heat input, it's the physical space in the roasting funnel.  The beans get too close to the top and they'll start slopping over and out, but a colendar on top works wonders.

Also FWIW,  I was only running 8800 Watts to roast 7.5 Lb of greens on my Artisan 6.  Running full bore the thing can put out a teensy bit under 11 KW.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Java Girl on July 13, 2018, 04:01:13 AM
Ascholten, I agree absolutely. NEVER walk away from your roaster. AND have one or two fire extinguishers in the room. The feature on the Sonofresco is that you can set your program and monitor it while doing something else in the room. Label your bag, create and invoice, read these threads, etc. As long as you’re not easily distracted it’s ok. Always watch the end of the roast intently. (After all Fahrenheit 451 is the point at which paper burns).


Java Girl.  Glad to hear you like the machine that well.  Ive been saying for a bit they are great roasters.
I do have to say to you though, you mentioned, you have to watch it every minute.  You should do that with ANY coffee roaster.  Never walk away from a roaster that is active.  It is way too easy to start fires in any roaster, (trust me, I even managed in an I roast) and if you are not there when that happens, you could be in serious trouble.

Seriously though, walking away from a roast in process is a very bad idea no matter what from a safety perspective.
I have actually purposely pushed coffee to the flame point on every roaster I own, I did this because I needed to see when it happens, ie what stage, warning signs im getting there and most importantly how the machine reacts to that event.  Especially considering the Artisan is a fluid bed with insane power, I needed to see if I was going to turn the thing into a fireball sprinkler or what if it ever caught on fire.  That makes a big difference between if I just sit there with a small hand held extinguisher or arm the Halon system I have in my garage.

The Artisan IS simpler if you just want to roast and go but it also has every capability of being very complex if you want to experiment as well.  I have also purposely held coffee right on the verge of crack (turn heat down and let it soak for about 45 seconds) for development and then pushed it through.  That's hard to do on most other machines, they either don't give you that kind of control on temperature, or are slower to react to temp changes because they are running at almost 100 percent capacity heatwise.

I have also used my Artisan to roast cocoa beans too.  Totally different experience there and Id recommend a stainless colendar to put on top of the roast chamber because of the nature of cocoa, you need a ton of loft to circulate them right and if one gets caught right it'll throw it into the neighbors yard, so you need a better containment for cocoa beans.  the stainless colendar also works wonders too if you are roasting over rated capacity.  I have put 8 lbs into mine at a shot.  I have the artisan 6.  The limiting factor believe it or not is NOT the heat input, it's the physical space in the roasting funnel.  The beans get too close to the top and they'll start slopping over and out, but a colendar on top works wonders.

Also FWIW,  I was only running 8800 Watts to roast 7.5 Lb of greens on my Artisan 6.  Running full bore the thing can put out a teensy bit under 11 KW.

Aaron
[/quote]
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on January 27, 2019, 11:37:45 AM
Let me tag this real quick.
They no longer offer the 6  but have a 9 Lb roaster which uses the same amount of power,  that's a good thing, and a smaller  3.5 lb version.  Still great roasters, ive been using the heck out of mine and almost no issues with it at all.  I think I had to replace 1 .. 3 dollar switch. 

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: compaddict on June 18, 2019, 08:50:24 AM
After seven years roasting with my Behmor I just pulled the trigger on a Artisan 3e!
I have been looking at them for a few years.. Two or three years ago Coffee Crafters were kind enough to roast a sample for me with a bean I was very Familiar with. Quite a step up with much more complex flavors.
Parts will be here Wednesday, then off to learning all over again!
Vince
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: brianmch on June 18, 2019, 09:34:44 AM
Keep us posted how it goes with your new toy. :)

It'll be more similar to your Behmor than a gas drum roaster would be, which operates in an opposite manner. 

There are only a few roasters in this capacity range.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: compaddict on June 18, 2019, 09:48:56 AM
Will do! At the same time that Coffee Crafters did my sample, the kind folks at Aillio did a two pound sample as well. Again, it had slightly more complex flavors than my Behmor.. But the Artisan really brought out much more. The bullet and the Behmor were so close!
Vince
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: peter on June 18, 2019, 10:27:46 AM

It'll be more similar to your Behmor than a gas drum roaster would be, which operates in an opposite manner. 


That strikes me as a curious statement.  Care to indulge me with your thinking behind it?  I've never used or watched a Behmor in action...   This has me thinking in terms of conduction vs. convection; am I close?



Edit: oh yea, sorry for the hijack.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on June 18, 2019, 11:55:50 AM
I have the Artisan 6.  You will love how simple it really is and no huge learning curve to it to be honest.  A lot more control over the coffee roast.

The Behmore was kind of a plug and pray, you prayed it didn't screw you on your roast, the Artisan if it's going too slow, too fast, whatever, you can just do a slight tweak and it's where you need it and it's very responsive too.

Aaron
P.S.  I cant remember where it is not but I have a thread here with a video of me roasting on the A6.  Yours will be the same just smaller really.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: compaddict on June 18, 2019, 12:24:34 PM
Yeah seven years with the Behmor and I have it down to a science with manual roasts and all. And of course a bean cooling system!
Thanks for the encouragement!
I have been thinking about the Artisan software but it looks like bad stereo instructions...
Vince
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on June 18, 2019, 12:53:17 PM
I don't do the software.  I play it by ear and smell mostly.  Id say sight but these old eyes don't see well much anymore and looking down into a roasting chute is not always optimum either.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: compaddict on June 18, 2019, 01:09:04 PM
Yeah I'm the same way. Use what I learned should be enough. Thank for that.
Vince
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Benjamin on June 19, 2019, 10:21:13 PM
Heh, interesting, I'm on a Behmor now and the Artisan 3E (or its successor) is the machine I will treat myself to for an upgrade once I can figure out how to start reliably selling ~20# of roasted coffee/month......or I get a spanking big bonus from work  8)
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on June 20, 2019, 04:25:52 AM
Benjamin, if you mention you bought it from me, I git a bit of a bonus :)

20 Lbs a month..  hmm.   How about the people at work,  I am sure some of them enjoy your coffee?  If not, bring in some fresh roast share it, then mention that you sell it.  I  bet you get some sales then.   Relatives might buy it.  Not sure what your lifestyle is but, flea markets, farmers markets are another possibility.  If you don't go yourself, if you have a friend who sells there, maybe put some on their table?  Are you a vet?   there's possibly VFW's, American Legion, your colleagues there who would possibly be interested in good coffee.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: brianmch on June 20, 2019, 04:40:29 AM

It'll be more similar to your Behmor than a gas drum roaster would be, which operates in an opposite manner. 


That strikes me as a curious statement.  Care to indulge me with your thinking behind it?  I've never used or watched a Behmor in action...   This has me thinking in terms of conduction vs. convection; am I close?



Edit: oh yea, sorry for the hijack.

Hijack away Peter. I was being encouraging to the OP. 

IIRC a fluid bed roast stays on heat more like a Behmor with heat cut during the roast on a gas drum.

I wasn't touching convection vs conduction heat transfer methodology.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on June 20, 2019, 05:33:33 AM
Well, the Behmor cycles it's heat on and off.  I especially hated this when you'd be right at the onset of crack and it'd turn the heating element off for a minute.  then on for a bit then off.  I always felt that messed with the roast a bit, stalling it like that.  It's not like that thing really had a thermal mass to hold heat to transfer to the beans when the source went off.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: compaddict on June 20, 2019, 06:25:04 AM
hated that on the older Behmor Aaron! They fixed that with later model with manual mode though.
Vince
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Benjamin on June 21, 2019, 12:16:11 AM
Benjamin, if you mention you bought it from me, I git a bit of a bonus :)

20 Lbs a month..  hmm.   How about the people at work,  I am sure some of them enjoy your coffee?  If not, bring in some fresh roast share it, then mention that you sell it.  I  bet you get some sales then.   Relatives might buy it.  Not sure what your lifestyle is but, flea markets, farmers markets are another possibility.  If you don't go yourself, if you have a friend who sells there, maybe put some on their table?  Are you a vet?   there's possibly VFW's, American Legion, your colleagues there who would possibly be interested in good coffee.

Aaron

I remember your PM to that effect. If, or when, I pull the plug, I will mention your name. Hopefully I can get them to knock some money off when I tell them I don't want a membership to their green coffee coop...

Thanks for the brainstorming, I'm still working on integrating into a community group that would provide a platform for roasted coffee sales.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: compaddict on June 23, 2019, 11:40:34 AM
I am up and roasting!
Well that was easy. One degree f per second, watch the loft and when the bean temp hits 440 degrees and cool.
Two pounds done with no drama.
The first thing I noticed is that FC really is nice and loud. And rolling FC really is rolling!
This thing roasts with authority!
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on June 23, 2019, 12:50:27 PM
You can stop your bean temp a lot sooner than that if you want too.  I stop mine about 420 ish but then again I don't push into second crack much either.  But either way, as you see the temp is very controllable.    I always aim for about 1.5 degrees / sec or so,  i find it brings out a bit more in the beans.  Granted the first hundred degree or so goes kind of fast but that's my target ramp.   You can also slowly up the watts too.  sometimes Ill start at say 3500 watts for 100 degrees or so, then kick it to say 5000  for maybe another hundred then 6500 or whatever I am going to use for my final wattage depending on how much I am roasting.

one thing, if you do decide to do a full 5 lb or more in there.  It doesn't always need you to crank the knob to it's stopping pegs.  I routinely do 5 to 6 lbs on 7500 to 8500 watts.  use the temp ramp to gauge that.  Yes you CAN go full bore but sometimes that can push you into second crack a bit fast, especially when you consider you have a much larger bean mass you need to make sure is fully roasted first before turning heat off.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: compaddict on June 23, 2019, 01:45:31 PM
Very interesting! At 440 I am a bit away from 2C.. Rolling 1C ramping down and getting a nice light to medium roast.
1.5 degrees per second seems so fast! I am so used to my Behmor and it's profiles it is hard to wrap my head around such a steap rise.
I haven't really educated myself (even after seven years of roasting) because of the limitations of the Behmor. I didn't want to know what I couldn't do!
I really appreciate your suggestions! I guess it's time to go down the rabbit hole.
Vince
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on June 24, 2019, 04:31:56 AM
well   1.5 a second sounds nice in theory but I go by watts to be honest and watch the ramp rate 
let's work with a 2 lb batch.   starting up it's going to rise pretty fast, maybe a degree a second or two because the beans are cold.
I tend to miser mine because of the solar thing and seeing 'how low i can go' on power burned and not screw the pooch on the roast.

Ill start 2 lbs at about 3500 watts.  Bring it up to about 225 or when it starts petering off on the rise then bring it up to about 5k.  If your roaster is warm you can probably push that thru to the end on 5k, but some beans or roasting on a cooler day about 325 or so degrees I then push it to about 5800 watts to finish it thru.

Your temperatures,are you looking at the probe in the roast pot or the digital readout on the unit itself?  The unit itself that is the chamber temp NOT the bean temp.  Your numbers make more sense if you are looking at that temp TBH.  I do have to admit though that each machine is a little bit different and maybe yours is just that much off than mine.

Oh and one other thing,  the power dial. the watts,  do yourself a favor and call that a 'suggestion'.   They vary a ton and can be off by a few Kw in some instances.  If you are running 232 volts because you are loaded down it can be pretty low.  If you are pushing 249 volts because you got 10 KW of solar behind you humping the grid, then those numbers can be a bit high.  I won't even get into power factor and all that crap,  the fan motor can throw them off too.

Get one of these cheap watt / power meters off e bay and hook it up if you want to keep an accurate log of power into the beans.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: compaddict on June 24, 2019, 07:13:09 AM
Yeah I wonder if my bean temp probe might be too close to the air stream. I roasted some Sweat Maria's "Monkey Blend" that I had left over from my Espresso days into 2c. I pulled at 480 degrees and it was perfect. My voltage was at 249 during the roast. I was happy when I learned my friend had an Espresso machine. Nice to see the roaster going into 2c!
We were roasting two pounds and he asked how do you know the difference between 1c and 2c. Two seconds later bam! I love this thing!
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: compaddict on August 03, 2019, 01:31:56 PM
Really liking the coffee I am roasting. I have been trying different things with heat and loft. What worked for me today was a heat setting of "7" and about a 5-6" loft to get to 300 degrees at 3:58. Then at 300 degrees lower the loft to 3" to reach 1C at 8:57. Pulled the finished roast at 11:40 and 430 degrees. The coffee is 2.5 pounds of Ethiopia natural Yirgacheffe Beriti Torea Gr.1 (BooBerry)
Very small changes in temp make real big changes in roast times with my machine. At 7.2 power things happened about twenty percent faster. Still was very good coffee.
More later.
Vince
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on August 03, 2019, 04:46:14 PM
Yes, once you hit a threshold on power (heat) a little can go a long way a lot faster.  You can get an idea by your chamber temp .vs. roasting area temp.  The higher the differential, the faster you can potentially raise the bean temp.  I find this generally works best with at least a pound of beans in the roaster.  Fewer and it can get tricky to get enough heat to 'stick' with them to roast them.  Yes the A6 can roast down to 8 oz but it's not very efficient at that level.

Aaron
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Benjamin on August 20, 2019, 10:07:44 AM
Heh, interesting, I'm on a Behmor now and the Artisan 3E (or its successor) is the machine I will treat myself to for an upgrade once I can figure out how to start reliably selling ~20# of roasted coffee/month......or I get a spanking big bonus from work  8)

Well...it's the machine I thought I would treat myself to. But they upped the price $1000 with no major design changes. Guess I'll be looking other places for my roaster upgrade (Behmor Jake).

I envy you all who got in before this price jump!
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: compaddict on August 20, 2019, 10:50:33 AM
Well shoot! Might give them a call and se if they will adjust?
Vince
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Benjamin on August 20, 2019, 07:23:48 PM
Well shoot! Might give them a call and se if they will adjust?
Vince

Yeah, I already got in touch. Ken said it was a "long overdue" price adjustment to reflect the increased costs of building the machine and that it "didn't make sense to be 40%cheaper than their nearest competitor."

If there had been changes to the design, I could have considered, but he tried to sell me on the post-sale service and business advice.

Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: compaddict on December 12, 2019, 03:16:28 PM
I see they lowered the price increase 500.00.
Title: Re: Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster
Post by: Ascholten on December 12, 2019, 04:40:29 PM
You might also, it depends on your setup, just get the roaster part and that's it.
I didn't get the chaff collector bean cooler and all that pooftery stuff, I roast outside, I don't need all that crap, just let it blow into the grass.  With that, the machine that was like 4900 or whatever it was, I only paid like 2800 for the one piece instead of all 3 or 4.

Also, did you consider used?  I know several people are selling their 5's and 6's and even some 3's to move up to the bigger units.  He mentioned something to me about a forum or something where people are buy / sell / trading them.  Unless someone dropped it off the back of a truck, I don't see much of anything inside that couldn't be fixed / replaced for more than a few hundred bucks.

Aaron