Green Coffee Buying Club

Vendor Discussion Boards => old Traveling road shows => Topic started by: SpecialReserve on February 07, 2018, 06:30:25 AM

Title: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: SpecialReserve on February 07, 2018, 06:30:25 AM
I have been looking at the Flair espresso machine. It gets really good reviews, even by some of the cafe snobs, at an unmentioned site. Do you have one? Have you had some espresso pulled on one? Whats your thoughts on it? I love to tinker and build things so I had to get one lol. Should arrive in a few days ...let me know what you think. Maybe a review here is I  order?
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: ptrmorton on February 07, 2018, 07:23:50 AM
Yes!  Good machine if it is the same one that was promoted on Kickstart.  I don't do espresso at home, but this tempted me at the time.  Compact and well built.  I had two very nice shots from it while CAMPING!  I didn't actually use it, I just watched a friend of a friend crank out shots while I helped hand grind the beans. Just you reminding me that it exists tempts me again. Yes please on the review idea.
Debate in my mind: "I don't need more coffee equipment!!! Well, maybe just for camping .... ::) "
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on February 07, 2018, 09:04:18 AM
PT I'm not gonna admit how much coffee making gear I have. It would cause others to question my sanity LOL. It's a sickness I have been afflicted with for quite a while  :-\.
I have been. Looking at that thing thinking " I REALLY don't need another piece of coffee hardware". But like every true junkie I justified it LOL. Coffee is really quite simple with only a few variables that need to be met. We shall see. I have even been working on my own lever machine. It helps to have friends who own a machine shop lol. I will report my results here to my fellow coffee "aficionados ". Thanks for weighing in!
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: martinwthree on February 08, 2018, 11:00:57 AM
I just purchased one for myself this past week! So far I love it! My first few shots were with Aaron's blueberry offering from early fall, which was SUPER great. I have never owned an espresso machine of any sort before, so I am quite pleased at the quality of shot that a novice like myself can pull. The shots I have pulled are comparable to what I have obtained from the nicer coffee spots in my hood. It certainly helps to have quality temperature control on the water used to preheat the stainless components, which I have courtesy a Fellow Stagg EKG. This allows me to go from cold water in the Stagg to a shot pulled in in the Flair <5 minutes, which is nice. Boiling water on the stove top would take a bit longer I'm sure. All in all I am a BIG fan. For folks that want espresso at home, but don't want a larger machine and the maintenance that comes with it, the flair is a great option.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: ptrmorton on February 08, 2018, 11:19:32 AM
Multiple reviews??!
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on February 08, 2018, 12:17:00 PM
I just purchased one for myself this past week! So far I love it! My first few shots were with Aaron's blueberry offering from early fall, which was SUPER great. I have never owned an espresso machine of any sort before, so I am quite pleased at the quality of shot that a novice like myself can pull. The shots I have pulled are comparable to what I have obtained from the nicer coffee spots in my hood. It certainly helps to have quality temperature control on the water used to preheat the stainless components, which I have courtesy a Fellow Stagg EKG. This allows me to go from cold water in the Stagg to a shot pulled in in the Flair <5 minutes, which is nice. Boiling water on the stove top would take a bit longer I'm sure. All in all I am a BIG fan. For folks that want espresso at home, but don't want a larger machine and the maintenance that comes with it, the flair is a great option.

Martin that's awesome...I'm really looking forward to getting it. I should have it tomorrow according to amazon. Mind if I ask what kind of grind you're using? What grinder are you using? Is there a way to do a preinfusion? Or does the water hit the puck when you pull? How hard are you tamping? I see some reviews that say use a 30 lbs tamp and others say not so much. Sorry for all the questions I'm curious as can be.
Thanks!
Ps I have a piece of a jar left of Aarons blueberry. I will sure put it through there. I'm thinking that natural fugu will be good too.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on February 10, 2018, 07:30:49 AM
Flair arrived in good order. My first impression after tearing inot the box. Well built looks and feels like quality. Heavy precision machined brew heads and nice cast frame. Very nice. So I immediately set about practicing with it. Was able to ,after experimenting, pull shots that blow away the local coffee shops. No exggeration. In fact they are on par with any I have had. Beautiful body and crema that honestly blew my mind. I did pull a couple sours and one bitter. But dialed in the grind and surprisingly used my baratza encore (my drip / pour over grinder). Didn't need a high end grinder to get cafe quality yipeeee!  I went through several coffees that I had jarred up grinding and pulling shots like a kid with a new toy. See the coffees I used:
1. Columbian Finca El Placer.     Really smooth peanut brittle
2. Yemen Mocca.   Earthy, leather, slight spice notes
3. Mexico Pluma Los Naranjos ..dark milk chocolate, nuts
4. Ethiopian Fuji. ... berries, cocoa slight bitter bakers chocolate
5. Panama La Esmeralda .... woody , earthy, slight berry

I still need to develop a smooth work flow but it moves along pretty quickly after I got setup. I both the package that includes the two brew heads and tamper (very nice stainless piece)

I'm very happy with it and look forward to getting better with practice even though the results are very satisfying.

On the grind I found around the #6-8 setting on the encore (depending on the coffee) works really good. 15+/- G  Tamp till you feel it pack and seat. 35-45 second pull gives really nice crema and balance to the shot. Makes a really nice Americano...also added a splash of hot water and 2 Oz steamed half and half for a really nice milky double shot.
Setup: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HQsbKFno4i8xTQSZDcoUMxSOe-aRlTPV/view?usp=drivesdk
Shot:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C3XeOqRph2vZE2OhZ-Dzq5Xw32SBiOuH/view?usp=drivesdk
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: brianmch on February 15, 2018, 08:22:33 PM
Was wondering about a Flair as a gateway lever machine.  Reports are encouraging.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on February 27, 2018, 01:42:12 PM
Brian it sounds almost silly to say you can pull a shot as good as one from a high end espresso machine. But its true. I was blown away with the first one I pulled (after dialing in the grind and weight). I highly recommend them. The owner responds promptly to emails as well. We will be setting up a pair of them on our coffee cart and I inquired about extra parts etc. They were very interested and the service appears to be top notch. I like the tamper that is an extra too. Id recommend it if you get one. I have had the best shots using 15.5 grams of coffee but I have seen some guys pulling shots with 18 I have not tried that yet.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: NickD on February 27, 2018, 09:02:23 PM
I have a La Pavoni (pre-millennium) and a friend with a La Pavoni (millennium) who recently bought a Flair.  Both of us have added thermometry to the La Pavonis to increase shot consistency, and I think we pull pretty respectable shots with these machines.

After playing around with the Flair, I don't notice any drop off in shot quality between the La Pavonis and the Flair.   It has drawbacks (need a hot water kettle, plus a consistent preheating routine), but if you're wanting to dip your toe into the espresso world (or the lever world), I think the Flair paired with a good grinder is the perfect introduction.

My friend actually prefers to use his Flair over his La Pavoni when he's only making coffee for one and doesn't need to steam milk.  I'm considering picking one up to pair with my Aergrind for a travel setup, although I'm also considering Paul Pratt's "robot" lever machine, which is not yet available for sale, and is likely more expensive and less portable than a flair.  On the plus side, it looks like a robot from a 1950s sci-fi movie.

Nick
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: brianmch on February 28, 2018, 05:20:41 AM
Thanks for putting that out Nick.

A Pavoni seems to be a standard setting entry-priced lever. If the Flair is close to better regarding shot quality it becomes really tempting
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on February 28, 2018, 05:53:31 AM
I cheat on the milk if I'm making a latte or cap. Induction burner and whisk lol. I'm pretty much a purist. I do add about an ounce of hot water to the shot before enjoying it.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on February 28, 2018, 01:16:47 PM
These look like an improved ROK espresso machine. for the price you could probably save up for something more. Personally I would probably go for the Rok or Nomad even then I would save up for a home machine. These travel espresso machines I feel would be good for car camping but its limitations would would become more evident as you go forward. I'll reach out to ROK and Flair to see if I can test and review them. I just received some brewers from NotNeutral I have to review soon.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on February 28, 2018, 04:46:50 PM
Limitations? I have found that the only limitations are having to pour some hot water in a small container to warm the brew heads which takes all of 30 seconds or so? I went ahead and got the set with two brew heads so I could pull a big double or two shots for two people. I can grind, prepare and pull two shots in around 4 minutes +/- that is considering the fact that I have made several so I have some what of a work flow at this point. I generally pull a couple shots a day for the wife and I. Did I mention I use the baratza encore I think they run around what? 140.00 bucks? No need to spend the $$ on a big name espresso grinder if you haven't already. I see a number of people using hand grinders and that's great if you are travelling or as you say, Joe,  car camping. I am at the house using mine. I have not tried the ROK but did have a shot from a friends and it paled in comparison to the flair but in all fairness Id have to dial it in and practice with it myself before I gave it a thumbs down. Bottom line IMO (as someone who uses it daily now) if you aren't a big espresso drinker pulling shots all day but just want an occasional espresso shot and don't want to break the bank on a machine and grinder.... the flair will give you the same quality shot as the big machines. Not to mention I like being involved with my food and drink whether its cooking or preparing coffee. So if you are a push button .. I want it now and don't want to have to do anything to get it kind of person its not for you and there are plenty of those people out there in today's "I want it and I want it now" world. The shots I pull with the little flair smoke the two local coffee shops and they are using big high dollar autos albeit attended and prepared by people with less than what one would hope for in a barista.

DISCLAIMER:
I have ZERO interest in the flair other than I have become a fan... no monetary or other involvement whatsoever


Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: brianmch on March 01, 2018, 05:37:16 AM
There are several videos on Youtube comparing the Rok and Flair.

A search for the Flair provides them.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 01, 2018, 12:00:20 PM
These look like an improved ROK espresso machine. for the price you could probably save up for something more. Personally I would probably go for the Rok or Nomad even then I would save up for a home machine. These travel espresso machines I feel would be good for car camping but its limitations would would become more evident as you go forward. I'll reach out to ROK and Flair to see if I can test and review them. I just received some brewers from NotNeutral I have to review soon.

My wife says "Joe if you review that thing and Brian buys one I'm blaming you" hahahah
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 01, 2018, 12:01:35 PM
There are several videos on Youtube comparing the Rok and Flair.

A search for the Flair provides them.

I have had some contact with Flair people. I guess one of the main reviewers on Youtube now works for flair  :o so I would still wait for our review if it happens. I am going to place discussions regarding this machine here for now because of the info from the contacts suggests that we might have some agents of Flair in GCBC ;D
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 01, 2018, 12:02:53 PM
These look like an improved ROK espresso machine. for the price you could probably save up for something more. Personally I would probably go for the Rok or Nomad even then I would save up for a home machine. These travel espresso machines I feel would be good for car camping but its limitations would would become more evident as you go forward. I'll reach out to ROK and Flair to see if I can test and review them. I just received some brewers from NotNeutral I have to review soon.

My wife says "Joe if you review that thing and Brian buys one I'm blaming you" hahahah

I understand ;D The flair people are afraid that I am going to discount their espresso machine based on this conversation....So your wife might be happy with me LOL
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: peter on March 01, 2018, 12:09:55 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/juhjq.jpg)
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: brianmch on March 01, 2018, 12:28:18 PM
These look like an improved ROK espresso machine. for the price you could probably save up for something more. Personally I would probably go for the Rok or Nomad even then I would save up for a home machine. These travel espresso machines I feel would be good for car camping but its limitations would would become more evident as you go forward. I'll reach out to ROK and Flair to see if I can test and review them. I just received some brewers from NotNeutral I have to review soon.

My wife says "Joe if you review that thing and Brian buys one I'm blaming you" hahahah

I understand ;D The flair people are afraid that I am going to discount their espresso machine based on this conversation....So your wife might be happy with me LOL

I'd like to know if the positive Flair reviews came before or after the reviewers were getting paid.

Companies are always scared of bad press but objectivity is important. 

Joe, do you have a ROK to compare it to?
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 01, 2018, 12:29:43 PM
These look like an improved ROK espresso machine. for the price you could probably save up for something more. Personally I would probably go for the Rok or Nomad even then I would save up for a home machine. These travel espresso machines I feel would be good for car camping but its limitations would would become more evident as you go forward. I'll reach out to ROK and Flair to see if I can test and review them. I just received some brewers from NotNeutral I have to review soon.

My wife says "Joe if you review that thing and Brian buys one I'm blaming you" hahahah

I understand ;D The flair people are afraid that I am going to discount their espresso machine based on this conversation....So your wife might be happy with me LOL

She was talking about the not neutral ...I have already bought the flair lol....she doesn't share my addiction to the tooladge. Just the coffee...." Do we really need another brewer?" My answer "umm  can't have to many" LOL
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Ascholten on March 01, 2018, 01:08:21 PM
Do you really need another purse?
Do you really need another pair of shoes?
Do you really need another dress?

That can be flipped around.

My EX wife tried that crap on me once with the price of coffee.  I kindly explained to her that HER cigarettes, only brought pleasure to her, and poisoned everyone else with secondhand smoke, but my coffee, brought pleasure to everyone and was in fact considered a healthier beverage in some medical journals.

So yes there IS a way to send a subtle nuance about the goodness of your hobby.

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 01, 2018, 01:44:44 PM
Do you really need another purse?
Do you really need another pair of shoes?
Do you really need another dress?

That can be flipped around.

My EX wife tried that crap on me once with the price of coffee.  I kindly explained to her that HER cigarettes, only brought pleasure to her, and poisoned everyone else with secondhand smoke, but my coffee, brought pleasure to everyone and was in fact considered a healthier beverage in some medical journals.

So yes there IS a way to send a subtle nuance about the goodness of your hobby.

Aaron

Amen! :D
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 01, 2018, 01:50:28 PM
These look like an improved ROK espresso machine. for the price you could probably save up for something more. Personally I would probably go for the Rok or Nomad even then I would save up for a home machine. These travel espresso machines I feel would be good for car camping but its limitations would would become more evident as you go forward. I'll reach out to ROK and Flair to see if I can test and review them. I just received some brewers from NotNeutral I have to review soon.

My wife says "Joe if you review that thing and Brian buys one I'm blaming you" hahahah

I understand ;D The flair people are afraid that I am going to discount their espresso machine based on this conversation....So your wife might be happy with me LOL

I'd like to know if the positive Flair reviews came before or after the reviewers were getting paid.

Companies are always scared of bad press but objectivity is important. 

Joe, do you have a ROK to compare it to?


I have reached out to ROK to see if they would be willing. I'll let you know if I get confirmation of one being shipped to me for review.

here is the youtube review from the guy that now works at Flair:

I called him out on it on youtube but I would be really impressed if he actually received two flair espresso machines for review in order to do his cold vs. hot comparison. His review also sounds extremely like a commercial so i'm not sure I believe that it wasn't a "paid" review yet. Upon further review I didn't realize the piston is plastic? I thought it was all metal. I am also very curious if the portafilter is pressurized? It appears to be in one of the angles. The nomad had a pressurized and non pressurized adapter...So this might be a pressurized portafilter which would be weird.

Final thought is that this would be good to check out from a truly unbiased perspective.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Ascholten on March 01, 2018, 01:52:22 PM
and ya'all know me,  I am an ekspurt on suttel.

I kin be as subtle as a tarnader in a trailer park!

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 01, 2018, 02:07:36 PM
Joe the one I bought has plastic plunger but I saw where they offered a SS one. I see the steel one as being a heat thief so chose to stick with the medical grade plastic and it doesn't steal heat best I can tell. I think from reading some of the reviews that they released the steel one because of people complaining about plastic. But thats just my estimation it may have had nothing to do with it. They did contact me because I told them we were going to use it on our coffee cart this spring and they asked how we planned to use it and blah blah and said they were interested in it being used that way and the outcome of it. A couple of the gigs we have are without power at all and lugging an espresso machine there SUCKS so this thing will work for making shots. As far as the pressured porta filter. Im not sure what you mean on that part but I will be happy to oblige with pics of video if it helps.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Ascholten on March 01, 2018, 02:15:40 PM
Plastic gets weak over time, steel won't.
Most espresso machines you run some hot water thru to warm it up before pulling a shot if I am correct.
Why would you not run a dash of hot water through this thing to preheat, especially if you are worried about the metal taking heat. 
I just think steel would be a better option, even for aesthetics, ie not cheap plastic POS toy, but real quality steel.

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 01, 2018, 02:39:33 PM
The plastic appears to be heavy duty... it could get weak over time I guess. They do offer the SS one. You take the brew head and get it hot first and then you clip it on the "porta filter" or whatever its actually called. Then you add the heated water for the shot...its not much water so if you used the steel one  you would need to heat it as well or it will cool your water and that water needs to be within 200-205F in experience with it. I have only used the original one that came with it. Id imagine that the reason it was made that way originally was to not be a heat sink. But again thats just me guessing. Once I get it setup I go pretty quickly to prevent stuff from cooling down and souring the shot.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 01, 2018, 03:46:39 PM
The plastic appears to be heavy duty... it could get weak over time I guess. They do offer the SS one. You take the brew head and get it hot first and then you clip it on the "porta filter" or whatever its actually called. Then you add the heated water for the shot...its not much water so if you used the steel one  you would need to heat it as well or it will cool your water and that water needs to be within 200-205F in experience with it. I have only used the original one that came with it. Id imagine that the reason it was made that way originally was to not be a heat sink. But again thats just me guessing. Once I get it setup I go pretty quickly to prevent stuff from cooling down and souring the shot.

All plastic gets weak over time. especially if its subject to hot/cold pressure etc. I saw some early complaints about the piston chipping. Looks like I will be getting one to borrow for a review but could you do me a favor? could you take a photo of the brew head parts in particular the bottom of the portafilter? I am really curious if this is a non pressurized piece as is being alluded to or if it is really just a pressurized screen/aerator in disguise.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 02, 2018, 06:29:36 AM
Joe the brew head is heavy duty machined SS. it has an oring that seals around the basket (part that holds the coffee)
The "plunger" in this one is plastic similiar to what one would see in auto manufacturing injection molded pcs. I think they offer this in SS (Id have to go check not positive)
The there are two "screens" one above the coffee bed and one below the porta filter where the back pressure is created. There is a considerable amount of pressure required to pull the shot. Its not a "kinda like espresso" machine. Its an oily slurpy crema laden espresso shot (considering one uses good freshly roasted coffee which I assume all here do ..or I hope so)

I will make a quick video later this morning if time permits.

see attached (forgive the crap photography)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gGWEG6w2zIX0NlimYGYbwdcqUtLgj5dM
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_idPOc6vw6CB3zsZyxQuC-ETlsHRkAkH
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 02, 2018, 09:38:37 AM
Thanks for the pic. What is between the plastic and the screen. Because when I watched the video it behaved like the pf is aerated.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 02, 2018, 10:09:30 AM
the process follows to prepare and pull shot:(my own version that works)
1. Fill "porta filter" with 15.5 G coffee tamp as in any porta filter (I use the SS tamp they offer)
2. place screen ABOVE the tamped coffee it just fits on lip of porta filter
3. place warmed brew head on porta filter and add 205F water to fill line (fill line is machined into brew head)
4. Put plunger into brew head and compress with handle using even pressure pulling shot


I have found that allowing a 15 second or so pre infusion of water into grounds gives a more consistent mouse tail on your shot... just have to get a feel for it

Joe the screen sits above the coffee bed so from the bottom up its porta filter, coffee bed, screen, plunger the way the back pressure is achieved is by having micro holes (looks like 4) in the bottom screen in the actual porta filter portion on the bottom. I think the upper screen must be to keep a consistent shower of water on the grounds and to keep them from back washing. Im sure their engineer can do a lot better job than me though lol ...

I included the actual process to help give a clear picture of what does what
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 02, 2018, 10:29:53 AM
Yes so that sounds like a pressurized Porta filter. Much like a seaco or other such machine. In other words most likely fake/enhanced crema. But if I get a chance to look at it I can definitely tell you. A quick test is to vary the grind size slightly and tamp at a normal 30lbs with a real tamper... If the shot pressure feels the same or clogs with 30lb tamp pressure then it's a pressurized pf.


If there are smaller holes at all past the bottom screen or 4 in the bottom screen that creates an aeration. This could be more sneaky about it since there is plastic on the bottom.

A typical pump machine or lever has 4-5 large holes on top block followed by a dispersion screen that spreads the hot water across the puck, then it passes through the coffee puck and comes out the hundred or so micro holes on the bottom screen into your cup. Pressurized Porta filters are for when grinding isn't as precise so they add a final layer usually plastic/silicone holes that further froths the espresso for crema enhancement. It does nothing for the taste but makes everyone feel like they are pulling perfect shots.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 02, 2018, 10:39:01 AM
Joe it is pressurized if you grind to fine it will shut her down totally...to big a grind and lose crema, oils etc... you have to dial it in just like a powered espresso machine.

I will take a pic of some grind that works perfectly shortly for anyone who wants to dial right in on it ...I had to fiddle with it a while to nail it .. like I said on earlier post on my encore its around 6ish or so I will try to get a pic of the grind next to a dime or something.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 02, 2018, 11:00:05 AM
Pressurized Porta filters clog like crazy on a fine grind. That's not a test at all. Try tamp pressure and a coarser grind. I owned a pressurized pf machine for about 2 years, you can usually tell by the way the espresso comes out of the bottom screen. If you had a naked pf on the bottom you could see for sure.

Just to be clear if it is or isn't a pressurized pf, it's still espresso.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 02, 2018, 01:17:26 PM
I did see something suggesting a bottomless PF coming sometime this month. If that is the case, that would be really interesting, If I were a Flair user I would definitely spring for that.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 02, 2018, 02:38:03 PM
Sounds like the inventor of the Flair wants me to buy his product so I can review it...hahahaha  ;D ;D ;D :o. Hey Brian can you send me yours for a week? I'll send it back with some nice presents and I will do a review on that bad boy.


I left him a nice email explaining that we don't play that game. But we'll see maybe he realizes that no free lunch is about to happen here.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 02, 2018, 03:24:36 PM
Well shucks Id think they would want to promote their product here. Its a nice little unit! I was going to buy another one for the cart, anyway, and I will have it sent straight to you, Joe, for an official GCBC review. There are lots of really great folks that participate here and it would be nice if they could get an objective look at it where they can also ask questions and participate. Just PM your shipping address Joe and I will have sent straight to you and after the review just send it on down south.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 02, 2018, 03:29:56 PM
Well shucks Id think they would want to promote their product here. Its a nice little unit! I was going to buy another one for the cart, anyway, and I will have it sent straight to you, Joe, for an official GCBC review. There are lots of really great folks that participate here and it would be nice if they could get an objective look at it where they can also ask questions and participate. Just PM your shipping address Joe and I will have sent straight to you and after the review just send it on down south.

Agreed. Nice! Will do.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 04, 2018, 05:07:21 PM
Just as an update the 2 individuals involved with the flair would have me worried if I have purchased their product. Obviously the buy in isn't that much so the risk isn't great but between the obvious top reviewer now works at Flair, and the owner providing free samples to Mark Prince and his goofy buddies at home barista, but wants anyone who would give an honest and potentially objectionable review you have to buy the machine. Andrew said he had concerns that basically I might say something negative or just compare this machine to the Rok so he won't send us a sample until we alleviated his concerns. I get sent so many products from "real" coffee companies that the shenanigans from this group of individuals is really stupid to be nice. Andrew from flair signed up at GCBC and Despite my pm to him to not engage in anything regarding the flair, he sent a pm to special reserve for assistance with this thread. I had to permban him for that. The owner of flair further cemented my negative view of their company by endorsing Andrews actions and basically requiring that I purchase a review sample. The funny thing is that I can review anyone this way through the magic of Amazon prime and their return policy. Luckily Brian is going to send me his machine to test anyways, but just to expedite my assumptions I might get a Rok to compare it to and I would be shocked if the Rok didn't wipe the floor of the flair. But one thing is for sure GCBC and our YouTube account will know. Buyer beware until I get back from Thailand around April 1 and get a chance to check it out. John might get the Amazon review going.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Ascholten on March 05, 2018, 01:56:51 AM
I don't know the entire back end of this kerfluffle, and yes it sounds like some histrionics going on :P  but to play devils advocate.

Yes you'd think they would send you a free sample, but then again, how many 'coffee experts' would be drowning them with; 'Hey, where's MY freebie?"

I kind of see their point there.  Then again, if you did give it a good review someone could say, he just said that because they gave him a free one.  Making you buy one takes that off the table.

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 05, 2018, 05:32:30 AM
Aaron im not sure if the convo details either. I could be wrong but I think he (joe) is basing his argument (is that the right word?) On the fact other companies send units for review.

You do have a valid point about buying it taking away the look of trading a freebie for a favorable review. Which is why I'm gonna pay my hard earned $$ for one LOL. I like the little machine it makes a great shot of espresso and is a great way to get into espresso without spending an arm and a leg for all the gizmoids that it usually takes to get one. Maybe they give them free only in exchange for favorable reviews and want to sell to anyone that might say anything percievably negative in an objective review. In all honesty I have so much going on right now i haven't even looked at any reviews on the Flair other than the few I saw before buying it and I'm not sure where they were they were written and not video. *shrugs* scruse me while I  go pull a shot of some really good beans.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 05, 2018, 07:58:40 AM
my take: We have a targeted 2000+ member audience of extremist coffee users. Our list is culled constantly so that number is pretty close to active members.

on the argument of samples and costs- Actually the argument of freebie samples isn't an issue until it's made an issue i.e.

example 1 most typical - x company says here is my new coffee equipment we are trying to promote. Please look at it for consideration for your members.

- in this scenario a "favorable" review is probably going to be tried as much as possible subconsciously by someone like me as they sent a unit to review and they are initiating contact. it's a subconscious thing but I still make a pro and con use of the item and try to find it's niche. I have yet to make a puff piece and perhaps some companies deserve that but I think my reviews are actually as honest as it comes compared to the competition. Companies could really hear my cons and make improvements that would work.
companies such as : OXO, Technivorm, baratza, notneutral, etc...

example 2 common- a member buys x company item says it's the best thing, I reach out to the company in order to actually see if it's good and/or see if we have maybe been targeted by agents of that company for free ads. typical responses are: 1. company ignores my request. 2. company responds and sends a unit out to sample and review. less common responses: 1. a company says we can't pass sample units out as we are a small company but we can lend you one for review. - I have only heard this once or twice and typically I don't respond or take them up on it because of several reasons but basically it's not worth my time.

example 3 this case extremely rare, this time only- a member buys x company item and says i like this thing. I reach out to the company in order to see if this is the next best thing and/or to see if we have been targeted by agents of that company for free ads. most rare of all responses the agent of the company states he would love to send me a unit but that he read our thread and thinks i wont give his unit a fair shot among other stuff not really important but basically states he doesn't believe i would give it an honest review based on my earlier comments comparing it to the ROK and that there are several reviews already out there. I washed my hands of it told him; too bad you could have changed my mind assuming I had the decision made- i hadn't. Then he fired back saying he didn't say that he wasn't going to send a sample just that he had "concerns". So i do some digging myself and notice the puff piece youtube ad by the Andrew who states in his review that he is an unbiased reviewer....hahahaha ok. then obviously i point out the irony to him and it goes from there. not to mention i find his handle at H-B where shockingly his comments seem to be 100% for "the flair"....then we see him sign up under the same handle, I get contacted by some members that his is PM'ing them about this thread.....Ok we have an interesting company we are dealing with.

On a side note "the inventor" has been emailing me....same story. he actually stated hey buy this thing we don't want a review. I cc'd all communication from these guys to John and we had quite a few laughs. But long story short, I am not allowing GCBC to be a platform for the flair's sub-ad campaign and I will review their product one way or another at this point for curiosity and to really give it an honest review. Whether it makes the admin official review is another story but as I stated these guys are "different".


bonus points to Aaron for "histrionics". Also I will forward you the emails someday so you can join in the fun....;D
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: IMAWriter on March 05, 2018, 07:44:31 PM
"but just to expedite my assumptions I might get a Rok to compare it to and I would be shocked if the Rok didn't wipe the floor of the flair. But one thing is for sure GCBC and or YouTube account will know. Buyer beware...(snipped)
Joe, respectfully, this comment is not exactly a harbinger of a positive review..even assuming you are acquainted with and have used the Rok. I hope I'm incorrect here.

I have no horse in this race. I do not own a Flair, nor a Rok. I have owned multiple levers, everything from a Bezzera Strega down to a Caravel. Seems like however the coffee is produced, it is, as you stated above espresso.
Seems a bit like a Faema Baby Faemina, minus the dual arms, such as Cafelot's forthcoming "Robot." I could be wrong here, but the bottomless Flair PF you mentioned would then eliminate any thought of a pressurized "basket?"
Rob Jason
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 05, 2018, 11:25:17 PM
Hi Rob Jason,

Long time no hear. I have owned multiple levers myself from the la pavoni to my current Ponte vecchio lusso. I think if you read my statement slowly you might catch the nuance of my wording which says that I want to review the ROK. Seeing as how much they have in common in design. Basically a very primitive lever without a way to make any milk drinks. But for a significant discount you can get a ROK. I think it's odd that a bottomless Porta filter is taking so long to come to market. How hard would it be to cut the bottom off? Maybe the crema argument on the paid staff reviews isn't the same situation on the bottomless pours? Btw the Nomad definitely doesn't have a pressurized pf unless you want one and truly had a unique way of pulling a shot, frankly I like the transparency of that company's business model.

Still there is always people deceived in thinking their able-Kone filter is a good way to make coffee and are willing to pay the premium. I have a feeling the flair is going to be kone part two.

Don't worry Rob Jason, I'll get to the bottom of this in the next month or so after I get back from Thailand and I'll grab a ROK too to compare it to. You can critique my findings when they happen.

So we can see the machine you reference for comparison, i offer this youtube.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Ascholten on March 06, 2018, 01:51:51 AM
Sounds like you re getting yourself stuck between a ROK and a hard place :)

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: ptrmorton on March 06, 2018, 07:26:55 AM
Sounds like you re getting yourself stuck between a ROK and a hard place :)

Aaron


Booooooo!  ;)
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 06, 2018, 08:20:58 AM
Sounds like you re getting yourself stuck between a ROK and a hard place :)

Aaron

I appreciate this..hahahaha.

For those that like to ROK! We salute you.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: peter on March 06, 2018, 08:31:45 AM
Wait, what?

Now you're dissing all the Kone lovers too?

SHEEESH!

 ;D
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 06, 2018, 09:05:13 AM
Wait, what?

Now you're dissing all the Kone lovers too?

SHEEESH!

 ;D
That has never changed. I received a Kone 1 and couldn't get a decent cup from it. It was worse than what I had feared. What I had feared was that it was just an overpriced Swiss gold/frieling gold. What it is, a good coffee ruiner.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: peter on March 06, 2018, 09:37:13 AM
Wait, what?

Now you're dissing all the Kone lovers too?

SHEEESH!

 ;D
That has never changed. I received a Kone 1 and couldn't get a decent cup from it. It was worse than what I had feared. What I had feared was that it was just an overpriced Swiss gold/frieling gold. What it is, a good coffee ruiner.

Normally I would say I love mine and how improved the coffee is by it, but y'all know how I hate to jack a perfectly good thread.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 06, 2018, 09:58:10 AM
Wait, what?

Now you're dissing all the Kone lovers too?

SHEEESH!

 ;D
That has never changed. I received a Kone 1 and couldn't get a decent cup from it. It was worse than what I had feared. What I had feared was that it was just an overpriced Swiss gold/frieling gold. What it is, a good coffee ruiner.

Normally I would say I love mine and how improved the coffee is by it, but y'all know how I hate to jack a perfectly good thread.

Some people love coffee-mate and Brown/natural filters too ;). It's funny I noticed, a kone at InterAmerican a few months ago. I asked them how they liked it? A few of the cuppers/traders that were there had the same opinion as me. But they have so many much better options nowadays...I bought a $5 pour over filter with stand on sale at Amazon. It has a Swiss gold style foil exterior in the same size and shape of a kone with a mesh screen on the inside. It makes excellent coffee, but so does my plastic Melita pour over with a white filter.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: ptrmorton on March 06, 2018, 12:11:40 PM
Wait, what?

Now you're dissing all the Kone lovers too?

SHEEESH!

 ;D


Yeah, who knew that a simple Commercial Hardware Discussion thread would become a candidate for Hot Topics!  ;D
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Ascholten on March 06, 2018, 01:29:35 PM
so it sounds like there is a kone ucopia of brewers to choose from.
I actually like the swiss gold, I really don't like paper filters, I like it ALL in my coffee, oils, etc.

So Joe, if you are such an expert now, do we need to call you a ROK star?   8)

Ok, Ill stop PUNishing you now.

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 06, 2018, 01:34:22 PM
so it sounds like there is a kone ucopia of brewers to choose from.
I actually like the swiss gold, I really don't like paper filters, I like it ALL in my coffee, oils, etc.

So Joe, if you are such an expert now, do we need to call you a ROK star?   8)

Ok, Ill stop PUNishing you now.

Aaron

Haha yeah Rok Star is acceptable. Much better than Rick Flair.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Ascholten on March 06, 2018, 01:43:23 PM
You could make a hybrid of the two and have a Rok Flair.   best (or worst??) of both worlds eh?

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 08, 2018, 06:30:25 AM
You could make a hybrid of the two and have a Rok Flair.   best (or worst??) of both worlds eh?

Aaron

A Rok Flair!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO put a big pink boa around it and a little bleached blonde wig and LOOOOOK OUTTTT ...

note* for those not familiar with old school wrassling I am referencing "Ric Flair" LOL
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine
Post by: Joe on March 08, 2018, 11:46:17 AM
You could make a hybrid of the two and have a Rok Flair.   best (or worst??) of both worlds eh?

Aaron

A Rok Flair!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO put a big pink boa around it and a little bleached blonde wig and LOOOOOK OUTTTT ...

note* for those not familiar with old school wrassling I am referencing "Ric Flair" LOL

It could totally happen get this bad boy + a flair and you have a Rok Flair (minus the feather boa...)
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Ascholten on March 08, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
Well from past posts, Joe already has the purty fingernails, so a Boa may not be that far off in the future ...

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Joe on March 08, 2018, 01:04:12 PM
Well from past posts, Joe already has the purty fingernails, so a Boa may not be that far off in the future ...

Aaron

hahaha  those weren't my nails bro... >:(
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Joe on March 09, 2018, 10:05:57 AM
Saw this and I feel like it belongs here... 8)
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: ptrmorton on March 09, 2018, 10:08:59 AM
Oh my ..... ::) ;D
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: SpecialReserve on March 09, 2018, 04:37:02 PM
HAHAHAHA now thats good right there I dont care what anyone says HAHAHAH only bad thing is it made me spit my coffee all over the floor ... thats a crime ...  :(
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Ascholten on March 09, 2018, 04:42:20 PM
Now we just need someone good at photoshopping.  put Joe's face in there, a nice bright boa, some dainty nails.....

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: ptrmorton on March 09, 2018, 05:13:23 PM
Well, it's been a few years and we need the right picture, but I still have Photoshop on my machine.... ;)
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Joe on March 09, 2018, 05:27:51 PM
Now we just need someone good at photoshopping.  put Joe's face in there, a nice bright boa, some dainty nails.....

Aaron

I am super happy that I have full administrator powers at the moment.  ;)
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Joe on March 09, 2018, 05:28:32 PM
Well, it's been a few years and we need the right picture, but I still have Photoshop on my machine.... ;)

I still have a ban button hahaha jk....but I do 😉
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: ptrmorton on March 09, 2018, 07:05:23 PM
Aaron, we'd better wait until Joe heads to Thailand......... ;)
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Joe on March 09, 2018, 10:37:17 PM
Aaron, we'd better wait until Joe heads to Thailand......... ;)

Lol. There used to be a few photoshopped Peter threads going for a while. Good fun
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Ascholten on March 10, 2018, 03:11:26 AM
agreed,  once he's on the plane, we can play.  heck he may even get a boa over there at a HUGE discount of what they'd cost him over here!

Maybe have the girl holding a coffee tray and he's eyeing her cups  :)

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: ptrmorton on March 10, 2018, 08:49:28 AM
No need for Joe to pick up a boa (unless he is so inclined).  I have a great picture of Dennis Rodman with a pink boa we could use.  ;D


Wow, did this thread get jacked!  Better do the review quick Joe.  No telling where this thread will lead..... :o






Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: ptrmorton on March 10, 2018, 08:50:35 AM
Or lock it while you are away!! 8)
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Joe on March 10, 2018, 09:18:52 AM
No need for Joe to pick up a boa (unless he is so inclined).  I have a great picture of Dennis Rodman with a pink boa we could use.  ;D


Wow, did this thread get jacked!  Better do the review quick Joe.  No telling where this thread will lead..... :o

Usually we have our fun, then I split the topic eventually. The trick is the timing.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: ptrmorton on March 10, 2018, 09:30:39 AM
Makes sense.  Thanks for the patience!
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: martinwthree on March 13, 2018, 04:49:47 AM
Man, this thread went down the rabbit hole since page 1.... :o  ;D

Looking forward to that comparison review! The combo of flair + fellow ekg has treated me well thus far. I do have the stainless steel piston, which i drop in my espresso cup and pour boiling water over to preheat. It works for me! I was curios about the Rok, but ultimately preferred the potential portability of the Flair over the Rok. I'm sure both machines make good enough espresso for my taste buds, and neither appear to require much upkeep. Will be interesting to get a relative expert's opinion!
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Ascholten on March 13, 2018, 01:45:24 PM
Will be interesting to get a relative expert's opinion!

Relative expert.
Is that like the know it all mother in law?  :)

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Joe on March 13, 2018, 02:04:36 PM
Will be interesting to get a relative expert's opinion!

Relative expert.
Is that like the know it all mother in law?  :)

Aaron

That would be my guess.

No one is an expert here, and we definitely don't work for flair either. An unbiased review is all I offer. If you want expert I can point you to a bunch of self described experts on some well known forums.
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: Ascholten on March 13, 2018, 02:25:53 PM
Ain't all dem experts and their exalted forums pretty much Tango Uniform by now?  :P

Aaron
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: javagonzo on October 13, 2022, 08:23:13 PM
I know this thread is ...like... pre-pandemic... but I got a Flair earlier this year and I don't know why I didn't get one sooner.  They are really fun and when you do your part (like, invest in a GOOD grinder) the 'spro from them is tremendous!
Title: Re: Flair espresso machine- now travelling road show ;)
Post by: brianmch on October 14, 2022, 06:48:32 AM
I know this thread is ...like... pre-pandemic... but I got a Flair earlier this year and I don't know why I didn't get one sooner.  They are really fun and when you do your part (like, invest in a GOOD grinder) the 'spro from them is tremendous!

I picked one up about a year ago. I enjoyed the espresso from it at times.  It was pretty hard to be consistent though so if getting clear insight into the coffee is a necessity it comes up short.  Could futz around with each shot though so that was fun.  I did not enjoy the workflow at all. 

They now have a powered model that I would demo if considering one again as the preheating/temp management/ etc at was a pretty big hassle.  A boiler lever is much easier. 

I am holding onto it though.  Probably because I'm a hoarder as we moved to a simple Moka pot and its in mothballs.