Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: SJM on March 18, 2014, 08:20:27 AM
-
In addition, if you did mod your HT, how long did you use it first, and what factor made you decide to mod it?
I'm trying not to get ahead of myself with this new toy, but I am always looking for ways to either tinker or let myself off the hook of having to do so.
Susan
-
No mods for me.
I see it as an accuracy of temp thing and I have no need to know actual/accurate temps because the (relative temps) serve all my needs. Plus I live much further on the art side of the art/science equation. I science geeked out in the early days but have not logged data points or fretted over replication in years.
-
No mods for me.
I see it as an accuracy of temp thing and I have no need to know actual/accurate temps because the (relative temps) serve all my needs. Plus I live much further on the art side of the art/science equation. I science geeked out in the early days but have not logged data points or fretted over replication in years.
Same.
-
"I
have will be adding Thermocouples and Jim's controller and use Artisan or Roastlogger"
I have the older 8828D which has absolutely no control other than time. I am wanting to add this capability so that I can play with the profiles and see if I can get a discernible difference in roasts of the same bean. I have 3 roasters, none of which give me much control. I'm thinking about investing in a commercial roaster at some point in the near future, and feel like this would be a good tool to help me learn more about the roasting process.
I've been roasting for about 7 years with the various roasters (the Hottop, Behmor, and Sono) and it's time to take it to the next level.
Jimbo
-
My suggestion? Just use it as is, and enjoy!
-
No control is a different situation.
I've got full time, temp, and fan control. A more calibrated probe don't make me no never mind.
But lacking most control would be cause to mod.
-
I will be the contrarian here if only to channel the curmudgeon in me.
Nothing helped me to profile my roasts and understand them better than the instalation of a bean temperature thermocouple. The one on teh HT measures a combination environmental temperature and temperature of the wall of the roaster. If you preheat the roaster (as is needed in my experience) you never see the turn temperature and drying phase without the bean mass probe. No doubt now after hundreds of roasts I can reproduce my chosen profile without the probe to a reasonable degree but only if I also know the voltage of the day and the environmental temperature and winds outside where I roast.
Play around without the mods for sure but IME bean temperature profiling makes things MUCH easier.
-
no mods here neither but even w/ a warmed up HT, no top filter (blocked off w/ tin foil), repeatability
on back to back roasts of the same bean is still...
-
I wanted to know what was happening in the Hottop (ET and BT) during the roast, so I installed thermocouples. The main reason for installing thermocouples is that the location of the built-in thermocouple in the HotTop becomes less accurate as you roast smaller quantities of beans. At the start of the roast, it shows the ET, and at the end of the roast it shows the BT. If you roast at least 250g, then the bean mass expands sufficiently to cover the thermocouple. The result is that it shows the actual BT when you get to first crack. But this becomes less likely to occur as you roast smaller quantities.
Conventional wisdom says that smaller roasts get to first crack sooner, which often produces better tasting coffee. I determined my minimum desirable roast size (based on consumption) as 215g for most coffees. So I could not rely on the built-in HotTop thermocouple to give accurate readings.
I waited about three months, in order to learn how to roast on the unmodified HotTop. Now I'm taking it to the next level with Jim Galt's TC4C + HTC board. This will allow me to automatically duplicate prior adjustments to the fan and power, and more easily reproduce a profile for a given bean.
-
I get the idea of looking for "smaller" data than the stock probe gives (geek 8) ) but I don't really understand the desire for more accurate temps just for accuracy sake.
Calibration to X isn't really critical if we assume the stock probe is true from batch to batch [and I'm pretty sure it is] because real time calibration establishes a known point.. 185 on my HT is 187 on yours and 183 on an after market probe. And why do we care?
-
I don't believe the HT stock probe can be consistent among roasts performed during a single session. It is influenced too much by the temperature of the rear wall of the roasting chamber.
Perhaps it can be consistent from session to session. But the remnant heat from an immediately preceding roast, even after a cool down that is enough to satisfy the control board, will skew the readings in the next roast.
Jim
-
I thought back-to-back roasts were verbotten anyway :-\
-
I thought back-to-back roasts were verbotten anyway :-
I do back to back roast every time I roast. The most I'll do is four in one session.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
-
Interesting, and of course now I have to laugh.
The blurb about the Hot Top at Sweet Marias moans about having to wait for such a long long time while the roaster cools down. I'm thinking....gee, 3 hours???? And it turns out they are bellyaching about 20 minutes. Sheesh. Here's from Sweet Marias site:
I can't blame HotTop for this, but one annoying thing is limited back-to-back roasting. While it takes the machine a moderate amount of time to heat up to temperature (you get an audible alarm to put the coffee in when pre-heating is done), it takes a LONG time for the roaster to cool down to temperature after doing one batch, so you can start a second batch. While it is good that the HotTop always starts the roast at the same temperature, it does mean you need to do something else for a while (like 20 minutes) while the roaster cools down after doing your first batch. Ultimately, this is for your own good: all roasters should be cooled between batches because it means consistent safe roasting, and a longer lasting machine.
I'm sorry, but when 20 minutes is a LONG time, I'm on the wrong planet.... :(
-
20 min wait would be an epic waste of time.
The ghetto way is to use a fan after each batch, remove rear filter, chute cover, chaff tray and drum cover and you'd be ready to roast again in 5 mins.
The cool way, pun intended, with no waiting... wait for smico to find this thread...
I'm too lazy so I use a fan and a broom to sweep up the chaff everywhere...
-
I don't do back to back unless I miss an alarm/auto dump.
And the 20 min wait feels like 3 hours. :-\
-
Remove the rear filter, chaff tray and bean chute cover while cooling. This will decrease the time between batches to less than ten minutes. I don't think an extra fan is necessary just let the HT fan do its thing.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
-
20 min wait would be an epic waste of time.
Are you serious?
You don't have anything else to do for 20 minutes?
I am completely amazed that that is possible.
I am never without enough things to do to fill up 20 or 40 or....however minutes are available.
There is no such thing was wasted time....
But that is beside the point.
The real point is that for me that "between roasts time" doesn't register on my personal richter scale.
It's what we call "a non issue...."
Susan
-
Well you have chickens, most don't...
-
Ah ha.....I knew I was forgetting something important ;D
-
There's nothing worth doing if I had to wait 20 mins in between. Oh wait... there not too many things I'd do if...
-
I am obviously the most vocal advocate of Hottop automation around here. BT, ET, Scotch-Brite scour pad as filter, TC4 + HTC, Variac, multiple thermocouples on motor, electronics area, aluminum foil on the front glass, started reversed air flow ultimate HT modification... All the way baby. I really enjoy work on modifications itself, so I understand that my opinion should be discounted. But I will be happy to help along if you decide to go automation route.
Cheers,
Miroslav
-
I've been wanting to do the reverse airflow and cooling bypass switch but just haven't found multiple consecutive free 20 mins to get started. Sumbody needs to offer a kit for the lazy...
-
To keep things in one place, here is a link to my hot top insulation project. I still use this mod as well as using the insulation to replace the top filter.
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10633.0 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10633.0)
-
I don't do back to back unless I miss an alarm/auto dump.
And the 20 min wait feels like 3 hours. :-\
This is one of the reasons I am excited about installing the TC4 + HTC. Finally I can start the roast at any temp I want, without waiting for the cool down.
-
I don't do back to back unless I miss an alarm/auto dump.
And the 20 min wait feels like 3 hours. :-\
This is one of the reasons I am excited about installing the TC4 + HTC. Finally I can start the roast at any temp I want, without waiting for the cool down.
So the software uses the temperatures from the thermocouples and picks up the roast or preheating at that point and continues? If true that really is a nice improvement.
-
This is one of the reasons I am excited about installing the TC4 + HTC. Finally I can start the roast at any temp I want, without waiting for the cool down.
Actually, there is no need for TC4 to run back to back. You just need magic button to fool HT into measuring lower temperature. Basically disconnect or short the HT thermocouple, depending on roaster type. After that HT starts new cycle.
When running back to back, you need to be careful about temperature of the drum motor as its temperature builds up. Two roasts are OK, third is a risk, and fourth would probably burn the motor. One solution is to stick additional cheap thermocouple on the motor, monitor its temperature, and start new roast when temp of the motor drops to 60 C. That way you can run as many roasts as you want. I did 10 to 15 consecutive roasts many times.
-
I run the 5 min cooling cycle with the filter out, tray mostly in and bean chute open. I've started working on a higher CFM fan in order to speed up cooling of the unit. Also did a little modding to get the smoke up and away from me.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lwchvrpR74w/Uw9rqIennZI/AAAAAAAAKlM/XyBDu1nANt8/s640/photo%25203.JPG)
-
I run the 5 min cooling cycle with the filter out, tray mostly in and bean chute open. I've started working on a higher CFM fan in order to speed up cooling of the unit. Also did a little modding to get the smoke up and away from me.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lwchvrpR74w/Uw9rqIennZI/AAAAAAAAKlM/XyBDu1nANt8/s640/photo%25203.JPG)
Nice set up. What are you using to come off the Hottop and connect to the metal flex hose? I've been thinking about venting mine for roasting in the basement in the winter and it looks like you've already come up with a solution.
-
5 inch to 4 inch adapter
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gKztAXUZc1A/Uw9rpgorhhI/AAAAAAAAKlE/q6uAJlFQSlQ/s640/photo%25202.JPG)
I should have done a better job at trimming but I'll use a gasket of some sort and screw it onto the fan housing. I also cut open the fan guard as it's not really needed and was blocking more.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pucg2dBRm5c/Uw9rpN9nySI/AAAAAAAAKk8/S-mY3Pim-VQ/s640/photo%25201.JPG)
Worst case all I have to buy is a new fan housing and it's back to stock. However after looking at the Huky500 I think I have a better solution which is use an external fan in pull configuration.
-
If you want to minimize smoke escaping from the bean chute just line that area with a piece of silican cookie baking sheet. It works fairly well.
Question - Will a Staco 15a variac work well with the hottop or do I need to look for a 20a? Thanks
-
I'd figure 15 would be fine. If I'm not mistaken that's what I have. I know it doesnt have the 20a plug on it.
-
I'd figure 15 would be fine. If I'm not mistaken that's what I have. I know it doesnt have the 20a plug on it.
Thanks - I recall that it draws 11-12A on full power but I was too lazy to look it up.
-
Erik,
Do you mind checking if your variac is 15A?
I have 30 A variac and 15 A plug... In-rush current for my variac trips the breaker every time, but I came up with simple three position switch solution to first manetize the variac (bulb in series to limit the current), and then set it on-line. Works like a charm. Will draw schematic this weekend and post.
-
I wonder if there is any state in the union where they would allow me to marry my Hot Top????
-
Better sign a pre-nup so you don't get burned.
-
Hottop's internal power regulation keeps power levels constant for small voltage variations. It is effective for power levels under 100%. To go beyond 100%, voltage can be increased with transformers. The most popular transformer used for that purpose is variac (autotransformer).
When unloaded variac is switched on to a supply, it draws large magnetizing current of order of 8–30 times the full load current, known as inrush current. When connected directly to the main, my breaker trips almost every time.
Bullet proof soft-start solution would include rotary OFF-ON-ON switch, but because I could not source reasonably priced one, I used two simple and cheap DPST switches.
Downside of the two switch solution is that I have to remember to engage switches in certain order.
1. Make sure SW2 is OFF
2. Turn SW1 ON
3. Turn SW2 ON
Advantages:
1. Breaker never trips
2. Dirty power during transient phase is not passed to the output
Bulb size is not critical. I used one I had handy, pulled out from some old appliances.
Of course, the same schematic can be used for any variac.
-
Does that exhaust cause back pressure on the roaster?
-
Erik,
Do you mind checking if your variac is 15A?
I have 30 A variac and 15 A plug... In-rush current for my variac trips the breaker every time, but I came up with simple three position switch solution to first manetize the variac (bulb in series to limit the current), and then set it on-line. Works like a charm. Will draw schematic this weekend and post.
Mine has a 12 amp fuse, and never managed to trip a 15 amp breaker, but I hardly push it past 75%.
As far as I can tell there is no back pressure, probably due to the scotchbrite filter and heat rises. I get 130 degree or so out of the pipe with the fan off and et around 300.
Sent from my iPhone5 using Tapatalk so pardon my spelling.
-
Variacs trip breaker when turned on, even without load.
Smart people like you buy what they need now.
Crazy people like me buy 30 A variac to be able to power 3 Hottops that I will never ever buy, and then complain about tripping breaker. Although I found like new US made 30 A variac for $90 and could not resist.
-
I don't do back to back unless I miss an alarm/auto dump.
And the 20 min wait feels like 3 hours. :-\
This is one of the reasons I am excited about installing the TC4 + HTC. Finally I can start the roast at any temp I want, without waiting for the cool down.
Now that I have the TC4C working, it appears that I am mistaken. Based on my experience of three roasts, I still have to wait for the Hottop to finish the cool cycle.
-
Well......After about 8 years the control panel on my Hottop went blank, no lights whatsoever. It had been showing signs of acting up for a while. As I was sitting there frustrated and playing with it i found that it would switch back and forth between the cycles but the display was dead. So, once you figure out where the fan adjustment is you can count from there. The heat is right underneath the fan, the total time is next, eject, etc. Usine the BT probe and a stop watch I really dont need to know what the display is saying. I feel like I an cheating by not buying another control panel. But $129 will but a lot of beans!!!!!!
This is my second Hottop and I am still using the 1st for parts. The control panel went dead on it as well so no spare to be had.
Anybody have a Hottopb control panel they would like to sell???
Happy to be roasting,
Mike
-
bummer about the panel but considering the recent price increase maybe $120 isn't such a bad price but
yea that is a lot of beans :-(
-
I am still using the panel with the blank screen. I e-mailed Hottop and was advised it was probably a dirty connection or smoke buildup on a connection. I took it apart and tried to clean it but it didnt fix it. I will continue to roast without the display for now. I will get a backup panel when the time comes. Its still a beast for what i have put this roaster thru.
-
Can anyone tell me without my having to pull out the manual if the HT be set to read out the temps in Celsius rather than Fahrenheit?
Susan
-
Found my own answer, but in case you're interested the answer is YES
The KN-8828B Coffee Roaster can be set to display temperatures in Fahrenheit or Celsius.
From page 15 of the manual.
I'm changing mine today....
Susan
-
Okay, I answered my own question last time, this one I really need your input on.
If I move the HT into a small cottage that used to be a rental, and have no plans for it to be occupied again, do you think I would be offended by the smoke if I didn't vent it outside?
Will the smoke eventually discolor all the walls the way a smoking tenant would?
In other words, is venting to make it easier to live in close proximity with or could you get away without that if your space were dedicated to roasting (and a cat).
And I don't mean like this: This tenant went to sleep with a cigarette smoldering on her couch....
-
Susan.
You have to vent smoke outside, for sure.
Even though I roast in 20 ft high garage, after few roasts it's not pleasant at all. Sometimes I can' t open my window because it's frozen, then I roast just one roast at time.
I made chimney from cardboard that directs smoke upwards to the range hood vented to the outside. I can take some pictures if you can't find them here.
The simplest is to place roaster close to window and directed fan to the outside.
Or roast outside.
Or vent to the outside.
Cheers,
Miroslav
-
I've found your pictures, so don't go to any trouble.
I will work on the venting.
So far I have spent all day reading about the optical reading of the HT instrumentation, and just this minute pulled the trigger on a Logitech webcam to make it happen. The webcam will mean it w ill have to be indoors, which in turn will mean it will have to be vented. You know: the hipbone connected to the legbone; the legbone connected to the ankle bone; the....
Darn you Miroslav....:-)))
Susan
-
You are welcome Susan ;D
Wait till I start talking about extreme mods, like reverse air flow and fixing sole major design flaw of Hottop.
-
As long as you don't ask me to drill any holes in her I'm gonna be fine....:-)))
-
So....about Roastlogger.
It requires JAVA. Does everyone just download JAVA again? I thought it was some kind of open invitation to get your computer hacked...
And....does any one here use it with an optical reader?
-
No need to fear Java. I just now installed the latest Java update on one of my old Windows XP boxes.
In the last quarter, Oracle got the software back into better shape (than last year). They even fixed the Java update process so that it works properly ::)
-
Scotch Brite Pads for the rear filter.
So, I picked up two packages of these:
but they aren't big enough to replace the old filter.
Where have you sourced bigger ones? I haven't been able to find them yet....
Susan
-
I buy mine from the Dollar Tree. A generic scotch brite and 5 come in a pack for a buck. 10-15 roasts and I can toss them for .20 cents a piece. Sure beats $11.00 a filter.... They fit perfectly with one small trim cut. Last look I had about 7 packs left. If you cant find any let me know and I will be glad to jam as many as I can in a flat rate padded envelope to your door!
-
I buy mine from the Dollar Tree. A generic scotch brite and 5 come in a pack for a buck. 10-15 roasts and I can toss them for .20 cents a piece. Sure beats $11.00 a filter.... They fit perfectly with one small trim cut. Last look I had about 7 packs left. If you cant find any let me know and I will be glad to jam as many as I can in a flat rate padded envelope to your door!
Cool. I'll try the Dollar store tomorrow and let you know. The ScotchBrite ones are 6" X 3.8" and just don't seem to cover the whole area of the filter frame.
Susan
-
I buy mine from the Dollar Tree. A generic scotch brite and 5 come in a pack for a buck. 10-15 roasts and I can toss them for .20 cents a piece. Sure beats $11.00 a filter.... They fit perfectly with one small trim cut. Last look I had about 7 packs left. If you cant find any let me know and I will be glad to jam as many as I can in a flat rate padded envelope to your door!
Cool. I'll try the Dollar store tomorrow and let you know. The ScotchBrite ones are 6" X 3.8" and just don't seem to cover the whole area of the filter frame.
Susan
Let me know. These fit perfectly width wise and just need a small trim length wise.
-
Okay, I wonder if I'm missing something here.
I went to the local Dollar Tree and found packs of 10 scrubbies, but they were exactly the same size as the Scotch-Brites.
Could you measure the ones you are finding that fit?
Or do the ones I already have simply get stretched to fit?
I'm (once again) confused.
-
PM me your address and I will get you some out on Monday...No worries..The ones I am using are a generic brand called scrub buddiies. May be paticular to the specific dolaar store I get them from. Be glad to send you as many as you want.
-
Okay, but....the ones at my Dollar Store are also called Buddies, which is why I think I'm missing something....
In any case...off to PM you with many many thanks.
Susan
-
I have the ScotchBrite brand and they are the industrial ones. They are 6x9 and you can make two filters per piece. I think I got them at Costco some time ago but these work perfectly.
-
Thanks for the update.
MLee sent me a life-time supply, but I hope this advice is helpful to someone else.
-
I have the ScotchBrite brand and they are the industrial ones. They are 6x9 and you can make two filters per piece. I think I got them at Costco some time ago but these work perfectly.
I just ordered a pack of 20 from Amazon Prime today for $14.50 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00978X97W).
-
This is supposed to work too. It is all metal and so changes the airflow and requires so modification to profiles. I believe Randy Glass recommended it a long time ago.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009YFS4A/ref=ox_ya_os_product (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009YFS4A/ref=ox_ya_os_product)
I have three or four filters that I rotate. I clean them in hot cafiza detergent, rinse and reuse.
-
I have the ScotchBrite brand and they are the industrial ones. They are 6x9 and you can make two filters per piece. I think I got them at Costco some time ago but these work perfectly.
I just ordered a pack of 20 from Amazon Prime today for $14.50 ([url]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00978X97W[/url]).
I finally got around to testing these as a replacement in the rear filter. I must have done it wrong, since I was losing a lot of heat. Based on this post (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=4846.msg223202#msg223202), I need to put the ScotchBrite pad in, as well as the black cloth material.