Author Topic: Advice about lever machine?  (Read 5035 times)

Tex

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Re: Advice about lever machine?
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2011, 11:15:34 AM »
The guys at Slayer did a little piece on the Vita BOSCO.

http://www.slayerespresso.com/2008/05/12/caffe-vita-leveraging-the-bosco/#more-132


Some interesting points made, particularly about lever machines, HX boilers, and temp stability. Sounds like the ideal lever machine would be double boiler or open boiler with no steam capability.

I'd like to see one with saturated groups too. Temp stability is such a critical issue that you'd think someone would design a machine around that, not some esoteric feature that has little impact on the quality of the coffee in the cup?




Commercial levers have more (or as little depending how you want to look at it) thermal stability through metal mass than an old e61. I would say the average group off of one of my commercial levers weighs just over 25 lbs (I just established that with a disassembled group in one hand and a 25 lb weight in the other), with the average e61 weighing in around 10 lbs. That is a lot more metal. You need to hook up one of your PIDs to a lever !


I agree that the thermal mass of those huge groups is impressive - I thought the Rancilio/CME lever group was going to cause a hernia. But I'm not convinced that thermal mass and temp stability are the same thing. That 25 pound hunk of metal is just as easily stabilized at too high or too low a temperature, rather than the ideal brew temp. If it has a thermal siphon connected to the HX it'll be too hot if it sits idle. If it's just hung from the boiler, it'll be too cool as the heat is wicked away into the atmosphere.

Ideally, the group is the same temp as the brew water and no heating or cooling flushes are necessary. That's not the reality I've witnessed in lever machines, except in a commercial environment where the machine is in continuous use. That's why I'd like to see a fully saturated group fed by the brew boiler, not the HX.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 11:17:49 AM by Tex »

Offline staylor

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Re: Advice about lever machine?
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2011, 02:40:33 PM »


Here is a picture of the front of the San Marco 75 and one of the back copper hood. I do have all of the front paneling for it, but the powder coating turned out so well that I do not want to cover it up. I have been thinking about getting glass or plexiglass to frame the front of the machine so I can keep the powder coated pieces and inner parts exposed. I posted pictures of it on Home-Barista some time ago. The stainless is on the front in those pictures. Apparently I also posted pictures of the inside of the San Marco on that thread as well. They are a little further down the thread. My '80 Conti Prestina and then untouched '58 Conti Empress 2-group are in the same post, just scroll down from the top about 20%. Here is the link to those pictures: http://www.home-barista.com/levers/lever-espresso-machine-gallery-t2692-270.html




That copper is CLASS!

Offline Warrior372

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Re: Advice about lever machine?
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2011, 04:53:08 PM »


Here is a picture of the front of the San Marco 75 and one of the back copper hood. I do have all of the front paneling for it, but the powder coating turned out so well that I do not want to cover it up. I have been thinking about getting glass or plexiglass to frame the front of the machine so I can keep the powder coated pieces and inner parts exposed. I posted pictures of it on Home-Barista some time ago. The stainless is on the front in those pictures. Apparently I also posted pictures of the inside of the San Marco on that thread as well. They are a little further down the thread. My '80 Conti Prestina and then untouched '58 Conti Empress 2-group are in the same post, just scroll down from the top about 20%. Here is the link to those pictures: http://www.home-barista.com/levers/lever-espresso-machine-gallery-t2692-270.html




That copper is CLASS!


That copper was a royal pain in the butt to clean when I found the machine!

Tex

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Re: Advice about lever machine?
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2011, 05:07:51 PM »


Here is a picture of the front of the San Marco 75 and one of the back copper hood. I do have all of the front paneling for it, but the powder coating turned out so well that I do not want to cover it up. I have been thinking about getting glass or plexiglass to frame the front of the machine so I can keep the powder coated pieces and inner parts exposed. I posted pictures of it on Home-Barista some time ago. The stainless is on the front in those pictures. Apparently I also posted pictures of the inside of the San Marco on that thread as well. They are a little further down the thread. My '80 Conti Prestina and then untouched '58 Conti Empress 2-group are in the same post, just scroll down from the top about 20%. Here is the link to those pictures: http://www.home-barista.com/levers/lever-espresso-machine-gallery-t2692-270.html




That copper is CLASS!


That copper was a royal pain in the butt to clean when I found the machine!


You do that yourself? I farm my polishing out: http://www.colonialbrass.net/

Offline Warrior372

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Re: Advice about lever machine?
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2011, 05:13:46 PM »
That is the only machine I own with copper on it. I like to try and do what I can with the machines I restore. With how many combined hours / days that hood took though I will seriously consider hiring someone to do it in the future!

Offline Warrior372

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Re: Advice about lever machine?
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2011, 05:15:49 PM »
I echo the sentiments on the Bosco.  Beautiful machines.  It's hard to beat hand crafted in Naples, Italy.  Cafe Vit@ claims to be the exclusive US distributor, which isn't really true.  They might be the only, but they're not exclusive.  They told me they only sell them to someone who commits to brewing their coffee exclusively (at least I got told a different story from Warrior).  I'm not sure if your friends consumption levels would work for them. ;).

You could have them shipped in from : http://londiniumespresso.com/products/bosco-lever-espresso-machines



They might only sell to restaurants / coffee shops. They immediately cutoff contact with me when I said I was a home user and not a store / restaurant. So, they might still only sell to businesses that will use their coffee.

Tex

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Re: Advice about lever machine?
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2011, 06:50:49 PM »
That is the only machine I own with copper on it. I like to try and do what I can with the machines I restore. With how many combined hours / days that hood took though I will seriously consider hiring someone to do it in the future!

The folks I use polish & clear coat for a reasonable fee. Polishing isn't hard work but it's dirty work if you do it right.

Offline Warrior372

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Re: Advice about lever machine?
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2011, 06:56:37 PM »
Rubbing the lacquer off was much more tedious than the actual polishing of the copper underneath. I am not sure how you approach the process but the way I did it was both incredibly time consuming and extremely dirty!

Tex

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Re: Advice about lever machine?
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2011, 07:07:53 PM »
Rubbing the lacquer off was much more tedious than the actual polishing of the copper underneath. I am not sure how you approach the process but the way I did it was both incredibly time consuming and extremely dirty!

When I did it I used 2 compounds - a general metal compound to skin the lacquer and remove any blemishes, followed by a copper compound to give it a mirror finish. Then I wiped it with lacquer thinner and shot clear lacquer over it to protect the finish.

I'll bet coal miners looked cleaner than I did after a few hours on the polishing wheel. I'll tell you this - the $229 it cost me to have the Victoia Arduino polished was money well spent. I figure it'll cost ~$500 to have the Brasilia Belle Epoque polished & clear-coated.