Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: 9Sbeans on December 27, 2014, 05:33:08 PM
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Background
As discussed in 1-lb Sample Roaster Options (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=17737.0), I’ll document my experience, the purchasing of KapoK K500 gas coffee roaster from Taiwan, for the reference of our group members.
KapoK? (http://www.kapokcoffee.com/)
Many coffee roasters are made in Taiwan (e.g. HotTop, Quest M3, Aillio, Huky, BellaTW/Yang-Chia, and KapoK) and they occupy diverse market segments. For the three 1-pound gas roasters, Huky 500 (~$1400) is an economical home roaster, whiles both BellaTW (Mini-500plus, ~$3400) and KapoK (KapoK K500, ~$6000) are more oriented toward commercial setting. KapoK continuously sponsored regional coffee roasting competition, and gained most of its popularity after Yu-Chuan (Jacky) Lai got the World Coffee Roasting Championship in 2014 - Jacky owns three coffee roasting shops and uses KapoK 1-kg and 5-kg roasters. Since Jacky operated BellaTW roasters in the Taiwan regional competition and eventually got his title by the using of a Giesen W6, it should be fair to say that both BellaTW and KapoK are capable commercial roasters.
Hearsay
Some hearsay while I was researching KapoK. It is said that KapoK made and exported wood heating stoves or something to Germany, and thus KapoK had better safety features/build quality. I have never confirmed this with the owner, because it could be merely marketing strategies and I didn’t base my buying decision on it.
Some people claim that, KapoK use a computer-based aerodynamics simulation to design their fan/air flow, whiles most other roster makers still go with the old-school, trial-and-error approaches. It is interesting to know other roasters with solid/perforated drum options for distinct air flow control and roasting profiles. However, I’m no expert to know which roaster has superior internal air flow/minimized turbulence design.
Communications
I emailed several companies in Taiwan regarding detail specs/pricing discounts of their roasters. Among these companies, KapoK was the slowest responding one. For example, Mr. Jet Huang, the sales manager of BellaTW, almost always responded my inquiries within couple of days. On the other hand, Mr. Frank Lin, the owner of KapoK, could have delayed answering my questions for up to two months, to a point that I almost forget the existent of our “conversationâ€. In the bright side, Frank did address most of my question or even some of my harsh critics. In my opinion, the slow responding was due to his pondering of answer, and he wouldn’t reply if he doesn’t have the answer yet. During the evaluation phase, the communication was not good, but adequate. After I decided to purchase KapoK, there was about 50-days of build time without exchanging e-mails between us.
I got notice when they were performing the final testing of the roaster, received the UPS tracking number, and the communication had greatly improved since then. Frank asked me to inspect the outlook of the package for potential shipping damage, and answered my installation questions immediately. He also gave me his personal Line and Skype contacts even with the 12-hours time zone difference. I did not bother to call him though, because I did not encounter any installation issue. The user’s manual was concise with several typos; the illustrative pictures explained virtually everything.
Pricing
Recently the US dollars are gaining strength in exchange of a basket of Asian currencies. It was around 1:30 (USD: New Taiwan Dollars) last year and now reaching 1:31.8. My price quote was in US dollar though. If you really want to buy a KapoK roaster, ask Frank nicely and try to negotiate some discounts even without a group-buy. YMMV.
Delivery
I checked several shipping companies including UPS in Taiwan. Since I did not have the actual size of the package at the time, I only had estimated quotes from these companies. Basically KapoK chose UPS air freight delivering to my door, and prepared all necessary documents. I got tracking number, signed the package, received statement from UPS for US customs duties (2.7%) & brokerage charges ($7), and made my payment to UPS by phone. I think the package had been inspected when imported. Shipping took about 10 days, and there was no damage occurred.
Setup
The assembly of the machine was easy: electricity (wall socket to roaster, roaster to cyclone), gas (propane), and vent. The body of the roaster was heavy though; need two people lifting it from the ground. I sent KapoK a standard Low Pressure Propane Regulator Assembly (http://gashosesandregulators.com/lowpressureregulators.html (http://gashosesandregulators.com/lowpressureregulators.html)) for the fitting test. Plug-in-and-Play.
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pic-01
The package was secured; no wobbly parts
pic-03
The venting outlet and gas inlet were sealed by aluminum tape (left side of the roaster). All parts packed well (bottom shelve).
pic-07
Cyclone. Tools at the background were included with the shipment.
pic-08
The white LED lamp is turned on with the main power. K500 is a miniature of K1.0. The bean hopper and the handle of bean trier of K1.0 are decorated by a designer, and those are plain in K500.
pic-09
Temperature in Celsius. BT (red numbers at the center panel; the green 250 is the alarm temperature) and ET (lower right corner of this picture)
pic-10
Gas pressure control dial & gauge (made in Germany, units in mmAq)); fire observing window
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pic-11
The trap door (hold by strong magnet) is to access motors and for the adjusting alignment of the drum.
pic-12
The chaff collecting drawer below the bean discharge door is also hold by magnet. Most of the chaff is collected by the cyclone, and not much here.
pic-13
Powerful cooling fan under this cooling tray. Notice the red circle I highlighted - the plate is not cut in straight edge nearby the screw bolt. This is an example of aesthetic design in addition to the function.
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Awesome!
Pretty slick controls; what kind of burners does it have?
Roasting drum construction?
That's one sophisticated roaster......
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Awesome!
Pretty slick controls; what kind of burners does it have?
Roasting drum construction?
That's one sophisticated roaster......
I have the KapoK K500 specs:
Capacity: 200g ~ 600g
Roasting System: Hybrid (direct heating on bin & heated air)
Fuel Source: GAS (LPG or LNG)
Burner: Low gas consumption burner
Heat Isolating Layer: Non-asbestos fiber isolation
Gas Safety Interlock: Gas detection prior to ignition
Overheating Protection: Temperature setting with alarm
Flow Volume Control: Step-less adjustable blower motor
Material of Bin: Stainless inner drum
Bin Drive: AC motor with metal chain
Cooling Blower: Independent cooling blower
Temp. Display: 4 digit display with 0.1 degree resolution
Temp. Detection: 2x at Bean & Exhaust
Paint Coat: RoHS Compliant Metallic gloss
AFAIK, it’s a single-pass roaster with a solid drum (304 stainless steel inner drum). However, the circular plate at the inside end of the cylinder is meshed. The hot air flow is likely coming from that mesh end to the exhausting chimney at the bean loading end (observing end).
The burner is arranged in array. I will try to take several pictures of them tomorrow.
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I see the rear of the roaster has a trap door by the cyclone. The cyclone itself is interesting in that the curved part is integrated into the unit rather than the cylinder w/inverted cone like many others. Space saving design?
Do you think the airflow is front to back or back to front?
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The Drum
This is from the bean charging side (pic-08).
pic-14
I opened the bean discharging door and took a picture of the drum. The pencil was for scaling.
pic-15
I removed the bean loading hopper (top-center of pic-08) and took a picture from the opening. As can be seen, the wall of the drum is solid, and I think the hot air can flow into the drum from the mesh.
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The drum-driving motor
pic-16 (open up the trap door in pic-11)
A motor drives the drum by chain. Upper left (with silicone tubing connection) could be a pressure sensor. Pencil for scaling.
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Burner
pic-17 flame (two rows)
pic-18 flame (three rows)
I took the pictures from the flame observing window. The burner is in 3 x 8 arrays. It could be in two rows or three rows. The red rod at the left on top of the flame (in pic-18) could be the igniting device.
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pic-19
Cyclone
Frank sent me the picture of a K500 prototype showing the setup of the cyclone. The cyclone (more than 20 pounds) is supported by the exhausting pipe as marked in red circle. For long-term maintenance, it should be un-mounted by loosening the three screw bolts in this red circle to clean the exhausting hose. The chaff collecting container at the bottom of the cyclone is floated for easy access.
Color coded buttons - Green
The blue arrow is pointed at a green “main electric power†button. The green button will light on as long as there is juice. Press this button to power up the system, including the drum motor and the white LED lamp.
Variable Drum Speed
This prototype K500 is equipped with a variable drum speed motor, with the white speed control panel above the green button. My hunch is that it can control drum speed between 50 to 140 rpm, and they are still testing the roasting profile correlations between drum speed and the final taste.
Variable Fan Speed
Most of the 1-pound sample roasters have an exhausting fan rotating at a fixed speed, and a mechanical shutter (or damper) is installed to restrict the airflow rate. K500 is more sophisticated. It is said that its design of the linear variable fan speed controller ensures the longevity of the fan motor and the reproducibility of the fan speed.
I considered between BellaTW mini-500plus (with 12-steps mechanical damper) and K500 several months ago. For me, variable fan speed is a feature of “it would be nice to have â€, :P but I’m no engineer to know if it’s overkill.
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Air flow
pic-20
I removed the bean loading hopper as described in user’s manual. There are 4 screw bolts to loosen (the 4 red circles and 4 orange circles). Green beans can come out of the rectangular opening (green oval) and drop into the drum.
In my guess, the hot air (blue arrows) flows cross the drum from the mesh to the hopper, and turns into the chimney. The ET probe might be the rod located in the entrance of the chimney (between the blue arrow point and the upper-left red circle).
The distance between the flame to the drum wall is fairly close (direct heating), and the hot air flow is more resemble the indirectly heated drum roaster. I guess it’s the reason called “hybridâ€. ::)
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Those look like ribbon burners, do they change from two row to three by gas pressure adjustment? What's the maximum Kpa possible? 3Kpa is the max on the Mini500+.
I don't think there is a big difference between the variable fan control and precise damper; so long as the speed control adjusts proportionally.
Adjustable drum speed is nice to have, I follow manufacturer guidelines: 65 rpm for 1lb, and 80 rpm for 1/2lb charges. It can also be adjusted during the roast, something rarely discussed.
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Just wanted to thank you for sharing your sexy roaster pron! Cheers! :)
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Just wanted to thank you for sharing your sexy roaster pron! Cheers! :)
You are welcome, wideasleep1
I knew of GCBC several years ago when I read the ESPro Press Roadshow over CG (http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/vacpots/espropress/BoldJava), and I had an ESPro press since then.
I knew of Pharos from HB years ago and had one with serial number < 100. Yet I haven’t registered on HB.
I learned a lot but didn’t consider myself could contribute anything, hence only a long time lurker.
Now it’s my community service time. ;D
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Unit conversions
TL;DR --
Pressure: It fits a standard low pressure (propane) regulator assembly as we get in any department stores in US.
Temperature: multiply the Celsius readouts by two to get approximated Fahrenheit numbers.
These should be customizable when you place your order; just specify your preferred readout units.
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Here are some unit conversions:
Pressure
11 inch water column (11â€WC) = 280 millimeter water (mmAq) = 2745.8 pascal (Pa)
Most of the low pressure PRESET propane gas regulator valve in US reduces the tank pressure to 10.5â€WC. Frank suggests KapoK connect to a standard 280 mmAq regulator. On the Mini-500plus, the maximum is 3kPa. Hence all manufacturers suggest the same propane pressure.
As can be seen on pic-10, the regulator equipped on K500 can take up to 600 mmAq, which translates to 6kPa or 20â€WC. I mention earlier that I use Steve’s “two-stage super charge†regulator which has higher pressure output than a standard one. I can manually control gas pressure (dialing the black disk in pic-10), change the gas pressure on the fly, and easily get it higher than 350 mmAq. However, I found it unnecessary because the burner already provides more heat than I need.
Frank once told me the BTU of the burner, but I couldn’t dig it out now and had just asked him again. IIRC, it’s really a low BTU burner. If you have Rao’s new book, on page 34 he mentions the efficiency of the most single-pass roasters are 10% - 15%. K500 has an insulation layer outside the drum, and I expect it be at the high efficiency end. In the home use settings, I personally prefer a lower BTU burner, presumably less hazard. :)
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Here's a link to a KapoK 1.0 Youtube video
http://youtu.be/aObo0DvCD7A (http://youtu.be/aObo0DvCD7A)
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Congratulations! That is a beautiful roaster. :)
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Slick!! 8)
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Color coded buttons –
Green
The green button (pic-21) will light on as long as there is juice. Press this green button to power up the system, including the drum motor, vent fan, digital BT & ET displays, and the white LED lamp.
Yellow
After the system powers up, the gas sensor will detect the pressure at the inlet. (pic-22) Turn on the gas valve of the tank, with the gas inlet pressure, the yellow gas indicator lights on.
Red
(pic-23) Press the red ignite switch button, fire up. Press it again to turn off the burner; red button light off.
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White
(pic-24) Press the white button to turn on the fan of the cooling tray. Press it again to turn it off.
Blue
(pic-25) This button is at the bottom of the control panel. Press it once to activate, and yes, it’s Bluetooth ready. It can also be wired to a computer via the connector, as can be seen in a test run picture taken by the manufacture (pic-26).
I was playing with the gas-flame control dial these days and haven’t got into the software (Artisan) yet... :P
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Vent speed
(pic-27) The air flow is manually controlled by the vent speed knob. Manufacture suggests 3.0 as a starting value and 5.5 for a fast system cool down after roast. Without the flame, I could dial the fan speed from 0 to 8.5. A user’s review (http://blog.xuite.net/withes1018/twblog/209972194) said that the DC motor of the fan is regulated by an IC-controller for voltage regulation ??? , and he has measured the air flow rate being between 0.1 to 1.2 m^3/min.
I tried vent speed from 3.0 to 2.5 only once while burner is on, and observed the increased temperature rising rate. Conversely, vent speed 3.5 and 4.0 brings in cold air and slowdowns the temperature rising rate (note that the BT is still rising, just rises slower).
The vent provides slightly negative pressure inside the drum, and the negative pressure is monitored by the pressure sensor as shown in pic-16. An anecdote: A K500 user said that he once improperly installed the exhausting hose, and gut wind blew the air backward from the exhausting pipe to the roaster. The gas line was therefore shut off, leaving that user puzzled by the “igniting device malfunctionâ€. Theoretically, if I drop the vent speed low enough, I should be able to test the safety gas shut-off function as advertised. However, I don’t want to test this safety feature, since insufficient vent is usually associated with dangerous accumulation of carbon monoxide. :o Unconfirmed feature for now.
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Automatic BT Mode
The temperatures dial (pic-27, lower right, currently set to 50 degree C) controls the switch between manual and auto BT mode. IMO, the auto mode is valuable in the warming up of the system and in the maintaining of charge temperature.
Manufacture recommends slow heat up steps (for the lifetime of the drum) and 15-mins of equilibration time at charge temperature for the first roast of the day. Dialing this temperature control knob, I can set the target BT temp at 50 degree C, and gradually increase it to 180 degree C (the charge temperature) and would never worry about overheating of the drum. In the auto mode, the gas pressure is switched between “High, Low, and Off†stages. For example, if the current BT is at 40 degree C and target BT is at 120 degree C, the gas will be in “High†until close to 117 degree C, and then switch to “Low†for slower approach, or “Off†for an overshoot (manufacture states 3.5% error of auto BT).
I actually roasted half-pound of green beans by the auto mode, and it tasted really good. I charged the beans, simply dialed the target BT at different time points, and voila I got Guatemala Antigua - Finca Pavon in Full City Roast. ;D But, no thanks, not again, I’ll do the full manual roast.
To do the manual roast, just set the BT dial to a high enough temperature (250 degree C), and the system will be always in the “High†gas pressure mode. The user thus controls the gas pressure gauge (as shown in pic-10) and the vent speed, the same as all other gas roasters.
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Those look like ribbon burners, do they change from two row to three by gas pressure adjustment? What's the maximum Kpa possible? 3Kpa is the max on the Mini500+.
Hank, I think you are right.
2 rows of flame could be due to the low gas pressure.
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As shown in pic-10, the gas pressure gauge can take up to 600 mmAq pressure. I tested the max pressure output again this afternoon, and confirmed that it could easily reach 550 mmAq (I didn’t go higher; last time I stopped at 350) with Steve’s regulator assembly.
The “High†pressure of the auto-mode is manually set by the gas pressure gauge. The “Low†pressure of the auto-mode is a proportion of the “High†pressure, but I don’t know the formula. For example, if I manually set the “High†to 280 as manufacture suggested, the “Low†pressure was about 38 mmAq. However, when I tricked the system and set “High†to 80, the “Low†was about 25mmAq.
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Noise
The roaster is made of stainless steel and cast iron, and the thermal expansion coefficients of these materials are different. Cold drum makes loud noise when rotating, and the noise gradually disappears when BT rises above 75 degree Celsius. The user’s manual indicates that the drum has been aligned when BT is at 200 degree Celsius. The fan of the cyclone is very quite. The fan of the cooling tray is a little bit louder than that of the cyclone. None of those noises would mask the sound of 1st or 2nd cracks.
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Bluetooth/wired Artisan support
It was effortless to set up the Bluetooth connection. In the Artisan software, BT & ET were configured as “Delta DTA PID temperature controllerâ€.
I was not familiar with the software, and anyhow got my first roast with the data logging. As can be seen in the plot, before charge (-1 to 0 min), I set the BT targeting at 185*C to warm up the machine, and the BT was hovering around my target temperature. After charge, the turn point was around 70 ~ 80 seconds (shown 1:09 on this plot). I increased the power (propane pressure) at around 8:30 (@ BT 179*C), and increased ventilation (from 3.0 to 3.5) at the 1st crack (BT 191*C). I was playing with vent speed (increasing 0.1 every 15 sec until 4.5), and it seemed that the increasing of vent speed brought in cold air, and it decreased RoR while maintaining RoR at positive range. The ET was lower than BT after 1st Crack; nevertheless, BT carried on increasing and did not stall. I did not want to reach the 2nd crack, therefore didn’t know exactly the BT readouts at 2nd Crack. The stretching of development (3:50) might be too long, and I will know the results 4 days later.
I will try to work out at least two different profiles, reproduce them consistently on the same types of beans, and then compare tastes in the cup. KapoK and its users have accumulated hundreds of roasting profiles, and IMO this database is invaluable. In summary, the machine and software were functional and well integrated. The sky’s the limit, and the only questionable link is now the person operating the machine. :-[ ::)
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Two more batches today, I tried faster roasting time and declining RoR.
01-Ethiopia Dry Process Gr. 1 Yirga Cheffe Kochore
Weight loss 15.0%
Originally I wanted to test the 2nd crack (still don’t know my BT readouts @ 2C), but chicken out again. Personally I am not a fan of dark roast. Just don’t want to “waste†the beans. Probably the next time. :P
02-Ethiopia Wet Process Gedeo Yirga Cheffe
Weight loss 13.9%
Ps. I shrink the size of the plots; didn’t know how to do that yesterday. :-[
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Nice! ;D
What charge weights are you using?
I use 180c for charging 1lb. You might want to try charging @150?
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Nice! ;D
What charge weights are you using?
I use 180c for charging 1lb. You might want to try charging @150?
I use 227g (8oz).
Lower charging temperature is usually suggested for natural/dry process beans and for smaller charge weights. For the same Dry processed Ethiopia, 8oz, I actually had tried a charging temperature of 200*C (392*F) to test the higher boundary, and apparently the beans were not scorched at all. I think the dual-layered solid drum in K500 had prevented beans from scorching of the direct-fire. We may see different responses in a perforated drum (as in a Mini500+ or a Huky500) with the same CT.
Surely will also do a 150*C charging temperature and report back. :D Might be couple weeks later though; got enough roasted beans for now.
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Quick follow-ups of previous batches:
The 20150110-test1 was Espresso Workshop #30 - Harmonic Tremor from Sweet Maria’s. It was a blend of Rwanda, Guatemala, and El Salvador.
Charge Mass: 227g
Charge Temp: 364.5F
Dry/Ramp/Development: 4:04/6:12/3:50
FC-start temp: 374.7F
Finish Temp: 400.1F
Overall Roast Time: 14:06
Moisture Loss: 14.5%
I stretched the ramp and played with the ventilation speed after the 1st crack. Day 4 & day 5 post-roast, it was sweet. However, on day 6, the wife did not like our morning espresso. It was still sweet and there was long “baked chocolate†after taste, but it has no acidity, lost flora notes.
I blended the Espresso Workshop #30 with the DP Ethiopia roasted on 01/11. 1/3 of #30; 2/3 of DP Ethiopia for the wife; 1/2 of each for myself. Fantastic.
The WP Ethiopia was in my office as my after lunch coffee, with Lido2 & Aeropress. The dry fragrance was phenomenal on day 3, and it was a vivid, sweet cup since.
In short, I will stay with Scott Rao’s suggested profile as my standard profile for now, and experiment different profiles. It is very easy to reproduce the S curve on the KapoK 500 sample roaster. I’m aware of the another_jim/Rao’s debate, hence will work on SlowStart/FastFinish profile in next couple months.
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I did two more batches yesterday; with high (363.5*F) and low (303.4*F) charge temperatures.
Roasting Info:
Bean: Kenya Nyeri Kagumo Peaberry - Wet Processed
Roaster: KapoK 500 sample roaster
Charge Mass: 227 g
Charge Temp: 362.5F / 303.4F
Dry/Ramp/Development: 3:34/3:33/2:30; 6:30/3:30/2:18
FC-start temp: 374.2F; 374.2F
Finish Temp: 400.8F; 400.8F
Overall Roast Time: 9:38; 12:18
Moisture Loss: 14.1%; 14.1%
Unfortunately, the Artisan crashed when I wanted to save the low charge temperature profiles, and the Dry/Ramp/Development times were my recollections. I kept most parameters identical for both batches, and the roasting profiles of the low charge temp were very similar to that of the R< results (http://www.home-barista.com/home-roasting/roast-and-learn-together-january-2015-t33659.html) from Mark ([creative nickname]) and Rich (boar_d_laze) who have 1# USRC sample roaster. (With the 227g charge @ 300F, my TP was about 200F)
I have attached the roasting profiles of the high charge temperature. Temperature in Fahrenheit. Both Power (P) and Fan (F) are in %. Assuming 500 mmAq = 100%, the pressure gauge knob allows me to dial it in 5-mmAq increment, which means 100 steps of control in Power. The fan speed in theory is from 0 to 8.5, in 0.1 increment, with useful range 3.0 to 5.5 (without stalling BT), 25 steps of control in fan speed.
When I feel ready, I will join the R< in HB, and will not update this thread. Cheers all. 8)
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Quick update of the High/Low charge temp results.
To my surprise, the wife and I both preferred the high charge temperature (362F) roasting results. The low charge temperature roasting (300F) yielded a very nice cup in every aspect, but the high CT was even more exciting. High CT was an obvious winner in both Aeropress and SO espresso. I’ll compare their peak and decay rates, but more likely they will be gone soon and I won’t see them decay.
It should be noted that this wet-processed Kenya Peaberry scored 92.9 in Sweet Maria’s, and SM suggested it for both drip and SO espresso. I won’t extrapolate this one-time experiment to other beans.
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Roasting Info:
Bean: Ethiopia Gedeo Yirga Cheffe
Roaster: KapoK 500 sample roaster
Charge Mass: 227 g
Charge Temp: 300.9F
Dry/Ramp/Development: 5:02/4:56/2:41
FC-start temp: 375.6F
Finish Temp: 396.9F
Overall Roast Time: 12:39
Moisture Loss: 14.1%
Here is an example of low (300F) CT profiles. This Ethiopia was aimed for city+, Aeropress in my office. I tweaked the timing of the power adjustment, and used the fan after the 1st crack to slow down the RoR. Compare the RoR of BT of this plot (300F CT) and the previous plot (360F CT), actually the maximum RoR were both close to 38F/min. Lower charge temperature has lower turning point temperature, but spent longer time in the Drying phase, hence similar maximum RoR. The averaged 7.9F/min vs. 10.7F/min development phase could be due to my more aggressive increased of fan speed. I could make the RoR as low as 5F/min without stalling.
Again, the KapoK 500 roaster is good, the controlling of it is easy, and the reproducibility is so far so good. As to the roasting profiles and tastes correlations, I have a big Huh to myself. ;D
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I notice that they have North America office, is it chaper to order directly?
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I notice that they have North America office, is it chaper to order directly?
I tried to contact them via several different e-mail addresses, but end up reached the same person, Mr. Lin the owner. I don’t think they have an office in NA as of now. Anyway, bargaining with him was easier, no middle man.
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Hey 9Sbeans ... you really need to stop it with this roaster porn.
People have only so much will power to use to try to not to be tempted by it.
;D
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Sure this will be my conclude post of this thread, unless I need to address something or answer any question. :P
Last year I tried to negotiate a group buy with Mr. Lin, but he refused. The UPS air freight shipping was about $1250. Trying to “split the shipping cost†was asking for 10% discount, and a “free shipping†inquiry was the same as asking for 20%-off. Anyhow, it is a big ticket item, worth pondering, and window shopping is always fun. ;D
I should list three features I like the most, and three things I wish could have been better.
Pro.
1. Safety features, all mentioned in earlier posts. It also has dedicated compartments separating electric board and gas line to reduce the risk of spark-ignited fire in case of gas leakage.
2. Multi-steps of power/fan controls After several batches, I really appreciate the fine controls I could have. (I don’t have hand-on experience of other gas roaster, therefore cannot compare the “touch†and adjustment levels.)
3. Auto-BT temperature control I really like the convenient, and this function had saved me a lot of time.
The stylish outlook is a big bonus for WAF (wife acceptance factor), but not a deal breaker for me. Some of the artisan coffee shops in Taiwan install big, shiny glass window to have their roast masters showing off, and a piece of eye candy is always the focus. I’m not that into it though.
Con.
1. It is not ETL/UL approved as of now. Mr. Lin said the machine uses only certified components, and he is on his way to get the whole roaster approved.
2. No vendor in North America as of now. I was lucky, no shipping damage, working out of the box. A vendor could have provided better service, faster responses for inquiries, technical/repair supports, etc.
3. Longevity unknown For a commercial roaster lightly used in a household setting, I expect at least 10-years of worry-free usage. I believe mechanically it will hold up, but not so sure about the electronic bells and whistles. Only time will tell. ::)
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Nice looking roaster. I saw something similar in the Taipei Airport when I went through there it was a Lysander. I was thinking about contacting them about exclusive North American Rights ;D
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That's a re-branded Turkish roaster.
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That's a re-branded Turkish roaster.
Interesting I was wondering why no one had been mentioning them. They were in the airport, I was surprised. Is it an Ozturk?
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I'm not sure, that company is not a major player in the Taiwan roasting scene. Taiwan is a major world class manufacturing country and there are numerous domestic roasters available not to mention the big boys. Even Loring has a small footprint, Probat of course.
China being the manufacturing powerhouse will probably overtake Turkey supplying the budget/economy market. They have a glut of steel, and underutilized/oversupply of industry that can easily produce coffee roasters.
Coffee Crafters maker of the Artisan V6 is coming out with a small fluid bed machine; and new streamlined manufacturing production line.
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Maybe, I could see that happening if companies in China had staying power. I haven't seen as much long term "stick and stay and make it pay" Chinese roaster manufacturers. We will see I guess.
The rust belt seems to be getting attractive for manufacturing again. Seeing the local fabricated roasters in Thailand doing great makes me think this might start happening more often.
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That would be awesome, building a coffee roaster is really old school technology.
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Look at my own ugly roasting profiles from last year, yikes; I knew nothing about roasting at the time. :-[
Funny that Joe revived this old thread. Couple days ago I just replied a PM from a Canadian member about my updated opinion. Simply put, I still love my roaster. Throughout some discussions in several roasting forums, I gradually realized the value of unique features of KapoK. No, I don’t want to start a war arguing who get the biggest-baddest-arse toy, and will keep some opinions to myself. :P
Here are some of the minor issues I have experienced with the KapoK roaster, and I think should also be shared in public (in addition to the PM).
1. Noisy when the machine is cold (below 75*C; 170*F). Powering up the roaster automatically starts the drum rotation, and it is suggested to gradually warming up the machine to 180*C (360*F) in 15 mins. At the end of the day’s roast session, it is also suggested to cool down the drum until below 75*C before switching off the power. It’s a bit noisy during the above warming-up and cooling-down procedure. The drum is double-walled (outer wall cast iron, inner wall 304 food grade stainless steel) and the body of the machine is made from composite material. I suspect different thermal expansion coefficients of different metals are the culprit. I keep the roaster in the un-insulated garage and in the winter it could be as low as 0*F. The extreme temperature fluctuation might exacerbate the issue. In the user’s manual it says the drum has been carefully aligned while at 200*C (400*F) working temperature. User can perform the alignment, but not recommended. I didn’t bother to align the drum myself, because it’s very quiet at working temperature.
2. In early days, I observed occasional BT spikes in Artisan. At the time of purchasing the machine, Frank told me that they have tested the Artisan compatibility and suggested me to stay at version 0.6 instead of upgrading to 0.7. I installed Artisan 0.70 anyway and experienced spikes. I haven’t changed any hardware configuration, but vaguely remember after upgrading to v0.7.4 or above the spiking issue disappeared. I couldn’t reproduce the spiking and wouldn’t know this is hardware grounding or the software compatibility issue.
3. There is an automatic electrical gas valve in the roaster. When the automatic mode is engaged, the gas valve can quickly switch between high and low gas pressure mode to maintain the user defined temperature. I once fired up the roaster in very cold weather (5*F; -15*C). I left the garage door fully open and after one batch of roast the electrical gas valve was "frozen" (in my guess) at low pressure position. I had to stop my session, and the next warmer day the roaster was functional as usual.
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I haven’t contacted the owner of KapoK, Frank, for over one year because I don’t have any hardware or software issue. I spent most of my time surfing through internet learning various roasting styles and tried to mimic those styles on my roaster. Only couple days ago it brought to my attention that the official KapoK website is gone.
Have they gone belly up and out of business?
I quickly checked and found their FaceBook page. Apparently last week (4/23-24) they just sponsored a roasting competition, and the champion could win a KapoK 1-kg roaster (at least US$12,000 value). They spent more than 5 hours to calibrate 4 of the 1-kg roasters in the contest (which is their standard procedure for every manufactured product), and these roasters kept running 8+hrs a day without any issue.
Frank is fastidious owner, and the expensive price tag implies very low volume moved. I really don’t know how the workers make for their livings. They might make products other than coffee roasters. I also found Jacky Lai’s Facebook page (he is the WCE 2014 roasting champion), and he disclosed that, Frank didn’t sell any roaster for whole 8 years because Frank himself was not satisfied with the roaster and kept tweaking the design. According to Jacky Lai, there are more than 3000 micro-roasteries in Taiwan and more young people jumping in. A chicken in every pot, a coffee roaster in every garage? ;D
Although more and more world-wide manufacturers relocated to China seeking cheaper labor in the past twenty years, there are still many satellite factories (such as Toyota and Honda) staying in Taiwan for more precision products. An interesting hearsay, Frank has two policies: Taiwan-first and no-China. He would choose materials and parts (as simple as bolt and nut) made in Taiwan before out-sourcing, and try to prevent/minimize any product containing parts made in China. Just another interesting hearsay. ;)
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I was looking for an appropriate place to talk about the lysander roaster i saw in Taipei. I knew I'd smoke you and Hank out talking about your Taiwan Roasters ;D
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Even IF China started mass producing coffee roasters, given the general quality of their stuff and the here today gone tomorrow trend of many of their business' I can't see it really driving reliable manufacturers out of business. China has earned a rep of putting out lots of cheap crappy products, some may go for it to save 100 dollars but when they have a problem and the 'tech support' is horrible broken ingrish in an e mail that you have to go back and forth 10 times to finally get some semblance of an answer other than YOU are screwed up, then they will see why it is so important to pay the little extra.
Rust belt in the USA coming back, umm I don't think that will ever be a viable option really. See that IS one thing China does have and many similar countries that the US can never touch, an almost unlimited cheap source of human labor. Labor costs along will put most US manufacturers out of business unless it's a very small mom and pop operation with very few people. Patriotism may help a bit, as some people would be very happy to pay an extra 50 cents to see a flag on an item and a sticker saying American Made, however will NOT pay $5.00 extra to see "Union Made" on the same item. Another problem, is the 'Im Owed' mentality individuals who can't make change at their McJobs without the computer telling them how much, yet somehow thinking they are worth 15 dollars an hour.
I can get a 1 Lb / 1 K roaster 'American' at about 5k or so, or I can get a Huky as an example which is a very robust machine I am told for about 1500 to 2k. 2k --- 5k... both are durable, have a decent user base to help me along, and decent support. Some of the 'foreign' ones even have parts centers for lack of a better word in the US now so when you do need parts they can turn them around quickly to you... Lets see 2k ... 5k which one do I want? America is going to be very hard pressed to compete on a level field with that.
Aaron
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Here is the air flow diagram of a typical solid-drum, single-pass roaster.
AFAIK, BT (blue) and ET (red) probes are usually installed at the marked positions. A manometer (grey) can also be installed on the exhaust hose.
Replying the previous PM last month reminded me the noise issue of my roaster when drum is not fully warmed-up. I sent Frank (the owner) an email regarding this issue and Frank immediately answered my question. This was due to the drum rubbing the faceplate. He suspected the extreme temperature fluctuation being the culprit, and suggested adjusting the distance between the drum and the faceplate to fix it.
It took me three minutes reading and understanding his instruction, and one more minute to fix. I fund the loosen adjustment screw and used my bare hand to tighten it. Job well done?
No. My BT and ET readings went hay wired. I immediately realized that I pulled the drum too far (green) and substantial hot air flowing through a gap had thrown off the readings (orange). Actually it’s not really an observable “gapâ€, because the drum was still tightly fitted on the faceplate like a sleeve. I adjusted the drum in the opposite direction, but this time with my glove on. Finally problem fixed! There is no noise during the warming up or in the working temperature range.
On the user’s manual, it specifies that the adjustment has to be done when the drum is hot, and doesn’t recommend the user doing this adjustment. Now I understand. I won’t want to touch the drum alignment nor the main frame since it has been carefully calibrated by the manufacture.
In the past year I had [airflow vs. roasting flavor] discussions on other forums, and I received mixed opinions from users of different roasters. Now I got it. Not all roasters were built the same. And some other roasters may not been calibrated to the same degree as KapoK when leaving the factory. Various internal airflow paths may cause unpredictable effects on BT & ET readings and it couldn’t be distinguished by the manometer.
Ps. I use 1-second sampling rate and over sampling in Artisan, via Bluetooth connection. No spikes in Artisan as of now. I’ve seen people using longer sampling time (3, or even 15 seconds of sampling time) to circumvent the spike issue. My complaining about the spike issue may sound like bragging to others. ???