Mill City Roasters- Bad experience, NEED Help Please

[Joe]

     I had multiple discussions and emails with them about the color I wanted and even had to wait 2 months longer to get the one I wanted. Before the roaster shipped, there were pictures sent of our shipment and the color I purchased was shown in the picture. Then I receive the roaster and it is not the roaster I ordered. The transformer is not the same as in the instruction manual they sent with the roaster and has a permanent plug on it, not a removable one. I understand that mix-ups happen, but the response was that I needed to cut and strip the cord and replace the plug on the transformer and to open the transformer because there was also a loose wire that I sent them a picture. This is for a brand-new $4,500 roaster, not a used or DIY. If I want the correct roaster that I ordered and paid for, then I was told that I would have to pay to have it crated and pay for the shipping back to them. In addition to all of this, the fact that Dave stepped out of this and that Steve doesn't care that the wrong roaster was sent to me shows me that I would not be able to count on them for technical and customer support for their product, which is important when buying a roaster, especially your first "real" one(this was going to be an upgrade from Hottop).

This is such a bummer. Many professional roaster friends told me not to buy this roaster, but due to user reviews(apparently only the positive ones are allowed in threads on certain sites) and having Dave's endorsement, I tried it out. Hopefully the return will be settled sooner than later, so I can pursue other roaster options.

Thanks & Peace.

That sounds like you did all you could and you sound very reasonable. It's unfortunate that the response from Dave and SGreen(Steve) has not been reasonable. I am as shocked as probably everyone here that you haven't been given a reasonable solution. I am more shocked that there hasn't been anyone from Mill city (Dave and Steve) or HB (Jim Schulman, Dan, et.al.) hasn't said anything about this. We did have some spam like sales posts from Mill City/Dave/Steve when he first started working there but since then he hasn't been on the forums. It's odd behavior for sure. Sorry to hear that this is the case.

[hankua]

Seems like the color mixup is a major problem. Did Mill City have an explanation how the wrong roaster was shipped out? What is their return policy? Are you planning on getting the right color machine or done with Mill City?

If your done with Mill City, then probably return is the best option. If you keep the machine, it's the wrong color at full price, and that's not fair either. What would it cost to re-paint the machine? What would be fair compensation for the mistake?

If you got the wrong color machine, did another customer also get the wrong color? Did North actually make the special order machine in your color choice?

You might try emailing North Coffee Roaster while deciding which way to go with this. Hopefully all gets sorted out soon.

[John F]

Hank brings up some good points.

Reminded me of a time the cops came and woke me up responding to a domestic violence call. After interviewing my Wife, searching the house, and asking a bunch of accusatory questions I said, "hey what if you are at the wrong house and the violence is still going on over there because you are here"?

And they left. 

Somebody must be looking at a custom color roaster with the wrong plug thinking what the heck... Maybe a shipping swap is the ticket!

[Kind_Karma]

For a return, the reply was that I would have to pay for the crating and the return shipping and then Steve would decide how much I would get back on the roaster. My credit credit card company told me not to agree to this and not pay to send the roaster back. Steve is also not willing to exchange for the correct roaster. My credit card company is very surprised at this situation since I clearly did not receive the correct roaster and the vendor is not providing customer service. Hopefully the staff at Mill City Roasters will give Steve their input so that they can make this right. At this point, I just want them to take the incorrect roaster back at their cost since they sent me the wrong one and give me a full refund. Then, I can say there was a mix-up, they took care of the situation fairly and both parties can move on.

What's ironic is that I was looking through my private messages from here and there is one that I sent a while back to BoldJava about interest in the US Roaster group buy, but it never materialized. Bummer!

Thanks again for your various perspectives and ideas.

[RobertL]

May I ask what color you ordered and what color you received? I'm just curious.

[John F]

If you used Amex they will probably just take the charge off your card before it even ships back.

They are incredibly pro member.

This sucks that you won't end up with a roaster at the end of the ordeal but ultimately your CC company won't pay. They will send some notice telling the vendor to prove the proper item was shipped but it sounds like you have a solid amount of info showing it wasn't. They will typically just reverse charges after investigation.

[Joe]

Hank brings up some good points.

Reminded me of a time the cops came and woke me up responding to a domestic violence call. After interviewing my Wife, searching the house, and asking a bunch of accusatory questions I said, "hey what if you are at the wrong house and the violence is still going on over there because you are here"?

And they left. 

Somebody must be looking at a custom color roaster with the wrong plug thinking what the heck... Maybe a shipping swap is the ticket!

Yes exactly.

But in this case. I mean out $5k and how many months of time? and then have to deal with a bunch of jerks who don't want to fix the problem they caused? 

I would be done. I'm personally totally on the side of the OP on this. I wouldn't touch a North Roaster or anything dealing with these guys, the silence on this is deafening...no call for it. Looks like we have heard from Steve- himself

[sgreen]

All of this is very confusing to me.

Nick purchased a blue roaster w/ a black chrome top. He received a blue roaster with a black chrome top, albeit apparently a lighter shade of blue than he expected. He was also told, and apparently conveniently forgotten, that color matching from China is always open to interpretation. The pics we shared with him are exactly the same color. We know now they look darker because they were taken in the shop after dark.

The roaster is set up for 220 volts. It is not voltage sensitive and can be run on normal single phase 208-240 volt current. The factory builds and includes a 220 volt step up transformer for ease of use. That transformer ships with a Chinese 3-prong plug. We shipped the roaster with a 120 volt Nema 5-15 plug and a step by step set-up guide. It is true that the cordset on the transformer recently changed to a molded plug that must be removed to install the Nema plug. To date, Nick is the first person we know of who has had a problem with this. Changing the transformer plug does not void any warranty.

We have apologized for the color, offered to send Nick a replacement transformer that doesn't require a plug change, and finally gave him the option to return the roaster for a full refund. Yes, per the terms of his purchase, he has to return the machine in good sellable condition and yes, he was informed our normal return policy dictates that he is required to pay shipping.

Strangely, I haven't heard back from him since offering to replace his transformer on Sunday morning. He, and as far as I know every other roaster purchaser, has got my mobile number and could have easily called to resolve this at any time.

I've contacted a crating company he can liaise with to return his roaster at our expense. Normally, we'd hope to work out our differences and put this behind us, but the histrionics simply aren't worth the effort.

[/quote]
... the silence on this is deafening...no call for it,
[/quote]

As for you Joe, I've had 21 guys roasting coffee on their new machines this weekend. Although none of them were stopped by that plug, I've been taking their calls and answering their questions all weekend not spending time on GCBC. My bad.

[Joe]

All of this is very confusing to me.

Nick purchased a blue roaster w/ a black chrome top. He received a blue roaster with a black chrome top, albeit apparently a lighter shade of blue than he expected. He was also told, and apparently conveniently forgotten, that color matching from China is always open to interpretation. The pics we shared with him are exactly the same color. We know now they look darker because they were taken in the shop after dark.

The roaster is set up for 220 volts. It is not voltage sensitive and can be run on normal single phase 208-240 volt current. The factory builds and includes a 220 volt step up transformer for ease of use. That transformer ships with a Chinese 3-prong plug. We shipped the roaster with a 120 volt Nema 5-15 plug and a step by step set-up guide. It is true that the cordset on the transformer recently changed to a molded plug that must be removed to install the Nema plug. To date, Nick is the first person we know of who has had a problem with this. Changing the transformer plug does not void any warranty.

We have apologized for the color, offered to send Nick a replacement transformer that doesn't require a plug change, and finally gave him the option to return the roaster for a full refund. Yes, per the terms of his purchase, he has to return the machine in good sellable condition and yes, he was informed our normal return policy dictates that he is required to pay shipping.

Strangely, I haven't heard back from him since offering to replace his transformer on Sunday morning. He, and as far as I know every other roaster purchaser, has got my mobile number and could have easily called to resolve this at any time.

I've contacted a crating company he can liaise with to return his roaster at our expense. Normally, we'd hope to work out our differences and put this behind us, but the histrionics simply aren't worth the effort.

... the silence on this is deafening...no call for it,

As for you Joe, I've had 21 guys roasting coffee on their new machines this weekend. Although none of them were stopped by that plug, I've been taking their calls and answering their questions all weekend not spending time on GCBC. My bad.

Thanks Steve (As for me?) Anyways thanks for your response, it's good to hear from you since you replied you will get notifications if anymore posts happen. FYI I wasn't referring to you. Bold Java has been a regular poster for a long time, I assumed you were busy running your business but Dave is active in the various Forums.

BTW I moved this thread to it's appropriate position- in Hardware and equipment. I didn't realize it was in the coffee discussion board- my bad.

[NightFlight]

That was what I was waiting for....the "other side of the story." As far as I am concerned, I am done here and the OP needs to deal with this on his own. The plug is a non issue and has been since my original post, anything having to do with a roaster once it is in my hands will need my hands to make/keep it running. I do appreciate your response to this Steve and is in keeping with the exceptional service from Mill City; THANK YOU for the response and everything you do and continue do to support your customers. 

[Joe]

That was what I was waiting for....the "other side of the story." As far as I am concerned, I am done here and the OP needs to deal with this on his own. The plug is a non issue and has been since my original post, anything having to do with a roaster once it is in my hands will need my hands to make/keep it running. I do appreciate your response to this Steve and is in keeping with the exceptional service from Mill City; THANK YOU for the response and everything you do and continue do to support your customers.

interesting response Nightflight. I'll wait to see what the colors are. If we are talking about electric blue vs china blue then I am still on the side of the OP if we are talking about a shade or two on the color spectrum I could see that being on picky side and would quickly see Steve's point of supposed buyers remorse. However I have ordered stuff from China before and while they might resemble the picture of the product (clothing etc) sometimes the arrived product is significantly cut differently, or the wrong color , etc... On those items it's usually not worth the effort but if I sank $5k or so into the product I would have a different opinion. Also I'm not so sure how hard it would be just to have someone show up and install the plug for the customer and call it a day if the color issue could be overcome.

Regardless, from what the OP has said they are discussing the solution with their CC company, and Legal options, so it really doesn't matter what you or I think. There is going to be some money left on the table somewhere.

[NightFlight]

I agree and until I see the color...but Steve said he was willing to eat the cost of shipping so..."I've contacted a crating company he can liaise with to return his roaster at our expense." I am done! Work it out or return the damn thing and buy something else at a considerable premium. Perhaps I could buy it at a considerable discount. J/K because while I want a new roaster, I am cash strapped thorough the new year and am thinking that a YM2 would be a better fit for my needs.

[Charly]

 So Joe--would you really rather spend another 5 or 6 thousand dollars to get a US made roaster because it is the perfect color? I wonder how much a paint job on a North roaster would cost

[Joe]

I agree and until I see the color...but Steve said he was willing to eat the cost of shipping so..."I've contacted a crating company he can liaise with to return his roaster at our expense." I am done! Work it out or return the damn thing and buy something else at a considerable premium. Perhaps I could buy it at a considerable discount. J/K because while I want a new roaster, I am cash strapped thorough the new year and am thinking that a YM2 would be a better fit for my needs.

Good catch didn't see that Steve agreed to return ship it. Yeah at that point I am sure his Credit Card company would be satisfied so there is no fight left in that. With the amount of Roasters Steve is selling, he should have no problem getting it to someone who want's one now. Insurance covers distributors as well if the product landed wasn't what was ordered. So Steve should recoup his shipping hopefully. But I bet the OP wouldn't have even posted if that was the response originally.

[Joe]

So Joe--would you really rather spend another 5 or 6 thousand dollars to get a US made roaster because it is the perfect color? I wonder how much a paint job on a North roaster would cost

Good question, I am seeing several Chinese made roasters all priced at the same price point. buckeye Arizona roasters is an immediate one I can see. But I personally wouldn't be in the market for such a roaster.

I personally would scale Sonofresco's (commercial 1 lb-2lb) US made roasters. Or buy Used, I think I said that a few times, or wait until I needed a much bigger Roaster and see my options then but at that scale you aren't worried about saving $2-3k for a legitimate commercial situation and I definitely wouldn't look to China to provide my solution...So yeah I would pay less, or more, or buy used.

If I was the OP yeah I would still be pissed and want to be made whole again. It looks like Steve is dong that now so problem solved.