Green Coffee Buying Club
Vendor Discussion Boards => Commercial Hardware discussion => Topic started by: Kind_Karma on November 07, 2015, 05:10:06 PM
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I am in a weird situation- I feel like I just got ripped off, so I wanted to see if any of you have any advice/help. I bought a 1 kilo roaster from Mill City Roasters. I mostly worked with Dave a.k.a. BoldJava(who really sealed the deal for me to go with Mill City Roasters) and placed an order w/ 1 kilo roaster and 200 lbs. of greens with him. So I picked up the roaster on Friday & opened the crate this morning. They sent me the wrong roaster (same size but different color than I ordered) and the wrong transformer(they sent me one that has a permanent non-removable Chinese plug). So I emailed Dave & Steve Green(owner of Mill City Roasters). Dave is on vacation, but Steve replied. Steve's response was that I should open up the transformer and cut the Chinese plug off of the cord and take the wires and splice it to a U.S. plug(voiding the warranty?). I responded by telling him that I was not comfortable doing electrical modifications to the transformer. I also told him that I was frustrated and asked him if they could take the roaster back since it was inoperable and the wrong roaster. Steve told me that I would have to pay for the shipping($500) and then they would decide on how much they would give me after inspecting the condition. I asked him if he could just send me the correct transformer so that I could at least just use the roaster. No response yet, but still got a bad feeling about my experience with Mill City Roasters so far.
Couple of questions:
-Does this sound weird to anybody else?
-Is this common for an experience with Mill City Roasters?
-Any advice on how to proceed? I have a brand-new $4,500 nonworking roaster sitting in my workshop or I send it back and possibly lose $1,000 for something that is not my fault and for no reason?
Thanks & Peace.
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Maybe wait for the other guy to come back from vacation? That does sound kind of not cool especially when it is their mistake.
They should pay for the postage really since it was their screw up and NOT what you ordered. Telling you they have to inspect first is common with most companies. They need to make sure they got everything back that they shipped you and it isn't all banged up and damaged. If you do end up shipping back make SURE you take very good pictures of what you sent back to them in case there are issues once they get it back.
The common sense thing would be to send you the transformer, along with an apology for the wrong color and maybe a gift cert or something on a future purchase from them. It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. Sorry for your hastles, stuff like this is never fun.
Aaron
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I would be as patient as possible and see if calm reasoning and documentation of what you received and what you actually ordered results in you getting the roaster you wanted and expected.
I don't know Steve but if Dave works with/for him I'm sure it will work out. I've never communicated with or interacted with a more reasonable and honorable fellow in the coffee community than Dave. I can't believe they won't make this a good transaction.
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I don't know Steve but if Dave works with/for him I'm sure it will work out. I've never communicated with or interacted with a more reasonable and honorable fellow in the coffee community than Dave. I can't believe they won't make this a good transaction.
There ya go.
Talk to Dave, he is "the most honerable fellow in the coffee community" this pretty much guarantees you got nothing to worry about.
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Your kidding right?
It's got the right wire with the wrong plug? They do make adaptor's; I've got a few around the house that are multi-national. Otherwise cut the plug off and put a replacement on.
It's really inefficient to be mailing a heavy transformer back and forth, not to mention its a commercial machine not a home appliance. What are you going to do if it needs a minor adjustment? That's your job as well; although they are going to give you telephone suports and parts if necessary.
Maybe Steve can email you exactly how the wires hook up. That's the most reasonable solution to the plug problem.
If it's the wrong transformer voltage that's a different situation. North 1K roasters are all 220V, and that's disclosed in their sales data. Color is a mix-up at the factory or Mill City; if that's a big deal maybe they can cut you a deal on something.
Once you start roasting and get the wrinkles ironed out; your probably going to be a happy camper. :)
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It's unfortunate Dave isn't around much anymore on GCBC. I am sure he will make everything as it should. I don't have a lot of experience with Steve but that does sound a bit of an odd response. Usually if there is a mistake at all I would think they would do what it takes to make you happy and Satisfied. I personally would have bought an used roaster...not sure why people buy new ones they don't wear out and the parts are usually common. I saw that Mill City is a major sponsor at home barista I would petition them there to make the right decision regarding your situation. I'm sure it will work out in the end.
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Wrong plug? Get an electrician to replace it and send them the bill if you can't do it yourself. Get that baby roasting to recoup your investment.
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UPDATE: Dave a.k.a. BoldJava emailed me that he is stepping out of the situation and that I need to work with Steve Green. Steve Green emailed me and said that if I want to return the wrong roaster that I have to pay for crating and return shipping. Steve also said that he would buy a transformer off of amazon and send it to me if I want to keep the wrong roaster. I will see what my legal options are since I was sold a roaster(and shown pictures before purchasing), was sent the wrong roaster and was offered a cheap transformer off of amazon to get it in working condition. Steve mentioned again about cutting and stripping the wire to replace the plug, which means the roaster will be altered from its original condition and possibly voiding the warranty. I bought a brand-new roaster and was told it would be ready to go minus the propane tank and exhaust venting. I went with Mill City Roasters because I heard they had good customer service and support- which is needed when purchasing a roaster with Chinese parts.
As recommended here, I posted the original post on Home-Barista and it was removed promptly. I don't get it, I was just trying to get support from the online coffee community that I have learned so much from over the years.
Thank you for your suggestions. Any additional advice welcome :)
Thanks & Peace.
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I am in a weird situation- I feel like I just got ripped off, so I wanted to see if any of you have any advice/help. I bought a 1 kilo roaster from Mill City Roasters. I mostly worked with Dave a.k.a. BoldJava(who really sealed the deal for me to go with Mill City Roasters) and placed an order w/ 1 kilo roaster and 200 lbs. of greens with him. So I picked up the roaster on Friday & opened the crate this morning. They sent me the wrong roaster (same size but different color than I ordered) and the wrong transformer(they sent me one that has a permanent non-removable Chinese plug). So I emailed Dave & Steve Green(owner of Mill City Roasters). Dave is on vacation, but Steve replied. Steve's response was that I should open up the transformer and cut the Chinese plug off of the cord and take the wires and splice it to a U.S. plug(voiding the warranty?). I responded by telling him that I was not comfortable doing electrical modifications to the transformer. I also told him that I was frustrated and asked him if they could take the roaster back since it was inoperable and the wrong roaster. Steve told me that I would have to pay for the shipping($500) and then they would decide on how much they would give me after inspecting the condition. I asked him if he could just send me the correct transformer so that I could at least just use the roaster. No response yet, but still got a bad feeling about my experience with Mill City Roasters so far.
Couple of questions:
-Does this sound weird to anybody else?
-Is this common for an experience with Mill City Roasters?
-Any advice on how to proceed? I have a brand-new $4,500 nonworking roaster sitting in my workshop or I send it back and possibly lose $1,000 for something that is not my fault and for no reason?
Thanks & Peace.
Sounds weird to me. I've had great service from Mill City, including phone weekend calls from Steve and Dave and free shipping( to British Columbia) for my 2k roaster when there was a long delay getting the machine from China. Best roaster for the price by far! I think you should calm down and be patient. Have somebody put a new plug end on for you and get roasting!
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My tongue is bleeding....
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If you're not comfortable wiring the transformer hiring an electrician is a good option. Did you ask Steve if rewiring would void the warranty? I would ask him if he would pay an electrician to do the work. I thought I read that you picked the roaster up from Mill City. If they are close by bring the transformer back and let them rewire it. I understand you're in a frustrating situation but I would be patient and try to work through it.
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Hi all,
Thank you for sharing your different perspectives. The roaster was shipped to a freight place, where I picked it up. Since the roaster sent to me was not the one I ordered, is currently non-operable and customer service has been shaky, I am looking into my options for returning. If the customer service is not supportive when I was sent the wrong roaster, then I am concerned that it will not be supportive when I need to set it up and if there are any hardware or technical issues.
Once again, my intention was to get advice from fellow roasters, not to bad mouth a vendor. Thanks again and hopefully I can recover my investment and buy something that will get me roasting again...
Thanks & Peace.
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UPDATE: Dave a.k.a. BoldJava emailed me that he is stepping out of the situation and that I need to work with Steve Green. Steve Green emailed me and said that if I want to return the wrong roaster that I have to pay for crating and return shipping. Steve also said that he would buy a transformer off of amazon and send it to me if I want to keep the wrong roaster. I will see what my legal options are since I was sold a roaster(and shown pictures before purchasing), was sent the wrong roaster and was offered a cheap transformer off of amazon to get it in working condition. Steve mentioned again about cutting and stripping the wire to replace the plug, which means the roaster will be altered from its original condition and possibly voiding the warranty. I bought a brand-new roaster and was told it would be ready to go minus the propane tank and exhaust venting. I went with Mill City Roasters because I heard they had good customer service and support- which is needed when purchasing a roaster with Chinese parts.
As recommended here, I posted the original post on Home-Barista and it was removed promptly. I don't get it, I was just trying to get support from the online coffee community that I have learned so much from over the years.
Thank you for your suggestions. Any additional advice welcome :)
Thanks & Peace.
Wow! Home barista deleted a post? Scandalous.
Well I'm a little surprised that Dave would separate himself from the conversation as he was seemingly your point of contact for the deal. You should have some sort of purchase protection from any funding source you used. I would contact that first and of course you always have small claims rights you can exercise if you feel as if there is no solution through your credit card or through the merchant. Honestly I am really surprised there isn't overwhelming support being offered by Mill City given that they are marketing so heavily to the "home roaster" presumably on the cusp of going pro.
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Is the voltage correct on the transformer?
If so then changing the plug is a piece of cake, it's literally two wires.
Ask him if you follow his suggestion and do your own splicing if it will void the warranty?
I have not dealt with these folks, so can't give you first person data but do know others who have and they have had nothing but good to say about this company. For them to be so 'curt' with you makes me wonder if there is not something else going on?
We are just hearing 'your side' of the story here. Id like to hear their side as well, as it'd be only fair however being a business they may not wish that out of professionalism.
Aaron
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I find it hard to believe HB deleted a post, however; Dan does have his thing about sponsor complaints. In fact he has a thing about merchant complaints in general. It has been tossed about in having a forum for any complaints and an opportunity for the merchant in question to respond. I understand Dan's position on this as he has a fine line to ride and as mentioned above, "there are two sides of every story." On the other hand, I have seen complaint threads run with plenty of chatter and it was not deleted.
To the OP, the transformer is not a big deal but I do understand if you are uncomfortable; I wonder what you will do when the drum motor acts up or you need to replace the PID or a thermocouple or phidget. I really understand the color not being correct and I would be PISSED if it was not Maize and Blue, if you have documentation that the color was supposed to be Maize and Blue and it is crimson tide, then they need to make that right to your satisfaction at NO cost to you. Good luck my friend and I will add that Dave is a straight up guy and I have never heard of anyone having an issue with him; I do not know and have never met Steve and if Dave has walked away from this I suspect Steve has told him to and that he would handle it. Perhaps if you try again on HB without mentioning the vendor, Dan will let it go. You can mention the TJ-067, and I would think the name Steve; just don't say mill city because it will be dumped and just mentioning the TJ-067 everyone will know who you are referring too.
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I'd find it hard to believe if HB hasn't deleted a dozen posts since Joe made that joke, hahahaha!
The reality is that they are extremely quick on the censorship button over there, always have been. The beauty of the system is they also operate with a lofty sense of gentlemanly snootery that uses a heavy dose of front end agreement all will gladhand each other else be labeled a common dolt should one drop the pretense.
Of course you see the inherent problem of me mentioning this. No matter, GCBC has been a house of scoundrels from day one.
I shall conclude my rant with the random words fanboys and pomposity. ;D
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Rats...I forgot the words honor, decorum, and tweed jacket.
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I agree John and Dan can be fickle. There are so many turned up noses there that I should have bought stock in Kleenex. I have no love lost for HB but if I read one more freaking newbie post at CG, my head will implode. I love rants and I hope my post was on target. Oh and thanks for all you do and if I might be so bold; UNLOCK 3 WORD for me for Christmas. I hope that the OP finds resolution without the need for legal representation.
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I hear ya.
I checked CG a few years ago and they were talking about the need to consider a proper grinder in your espresso budget and I realized I'd never need to go back there again. A sticky 101 thread and the 4.7 million words posted on that aren't enough eh? ???
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It is unlikely to the extreme that changing the power connection could void any warranty the machine has attached to it. I would change the plug end or have it done by a professional and send the bill to Mill City. If it is as I have read from your description of events, most distributes of equipment will fall all over themselves to take the cheap and easy solution.
There will be more difficult obstacles to overcome during the machine's life. Even those which come up during the warranty coverage can require thought and action. Solving this yourself will make you better. Not solving this will do the opposite. I believe you are about one hour from roasting, or considedably longer. The choice is yours.
I, like most others here, wish you success.
Curtis
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But to the OP I'd say that the plug itself probably would not bug me a great deal but the color thing certainly would.
Figuring out how to tinker with stuff is sort of part of what we do but if I paid a significant chunk of cash for a red espresso machine and somebody sent me a green one I'd have a serious issue with that. I'm particular about stuff like that. I really wanted a red machine one time and it was on backorder. Never did get that little monster.
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I can certainly understand being disappointed if you got the wrong color but in the end it has zero impact on the roaster itself. It seems to me that if you're trying to return this roaster over a simple plug replacement you might have more of a feeling of buyers remorse. I agree with Hank that this is not a big deal to replace on your own. I'm certain there are hundreds of youtube videos that will walk you through it with ease. Question is if you really want this roaster or are you just trying to find a way to send it back?
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What if somebody was opening a shop and had logo work done, sinage made and the roaster was going to be in the center of the room? I know several shops like that.
Point being the color doesn't matter to some people and might matter a lot to others.
It would matter to me if I went to the trouble to buy a specific color.
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What if somebody was opening a shop and had logo work done, sinage made and the roaster was going to be in the center of the room? I know several shops like that.
Point being the color doesn't matter to some people and might matter a lot to others.
It would matter to me if I went to the trouble to buy a specific color.
I see your point. For me, personally, none of this is a deal breaker. But that's just me.
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The wrong color would likely be a deal breaker for me. I am far too particular for color not to pose an issue. If it is written into the contract, I can not see how it is the buyer's responsibility to pay for return shipping to get the right color.
The plug probably isn't a big deal, but there is something to be said for meeting the terms of a contract. You'll have to spend some time on roaster maintenance, but should you really have to fix the roaster new out of the box?
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I had multiple discussions and emails with them about the color I wanted and even had to wait 2 months longer to get the one I wanted. Before the roaster shipped, there were pictures sent of our shipment and the color I purchased was shown in the picture. Then I receive the roaster and it is not the roaster I ordered. The transformer is not the same as in the instruction manual they sent with the roaster and has a permanent plug on it, not a removable one. I understand that mix-ups happen, but the response was that I needed to cut and strip the cord and replace the plug on the transformer and to open the transformer because there was also a loose wire that I sent them a picture. This is for a brand-new $4,500 roaster, not a used or DIY. If I want the correct roaster that I ordered and paid for, then I was told that I would have to pay to have it crated and pay for the shipping back to them. In addition to all of this, the fact that Dave stepped out of this and that Steve doesn't care that the wrong roaster was sent to me shows me that I would not be able to count on them for technical and customer support for their product, which is important when buying a roaster, especially your first "real" one(this was going to be an upgrade from Hottop).
This is such a bummer. Many professional roaster friends told me not to buy this roaster, but due to user reviews(apparently only the positive ones are allowed in threads on certain sites) and having Dave's endorsement, I tried it out. Hopefully the return will be settled sooner than later, so I can pursue other roaster options.
Thanks & Peace.
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The wrong color would likely be a deal breaker for me. I am far too particular for color not to pose an issue. If it is written into the contract, I can not see how it is the buyer's responsibility to pay for return shipping to get the right color.
The plug probably isn't a big deal, but there is something to be said for meeting the terms of a contract. You'll have to spend some time on roaster maintenance, but should you really have to fix the roaster new out of the box?
Yeah you should get what you ordered no matter what and they should be more than willing to make it right. You aren't talking about buying the wrong color toaster..this is an expensive investment that was considered carefully. It should come ready to go as was ordered no questions asked. So if you bought a black fridge and it shows up green and wired for 220v you are just gonna let Best Buy get away with that? Not me, they better get my black fridge with the right plug on it pronto. If I was HB I would be putting the squeeze on Mill city to make the right decision.
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Bummer.
Hopefully you didn't pay cash to a guy in an alley ;) I'm sure you will find recourse over time but it still sucks to get all jazzed up and the new toy isn't right.
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What if somebody was opening a shop and had logo work done, sinage made and the roaster was going to be in the center of the room? I know several shops like that.
Point being the color doesn't matter to some people and might matter a lot to others.
It would matter to me if I went to the trouble to buy a specific color.
I see your point. For me, personally, none of this is a deal breaker. But that's just me.
I would see your point if it was used or at a significant discount, etc... Otherwise that is a bad black eye on Dave and Mill city.
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It is unlikely to the extreme that changing the power connection could void any warranty the machine has attached to it. I would change the plug end or have it done by a professional and send the bill to Mill City. If it is as I have read from your description of events, most distributes of equipment will fall all over themselves to take the cheap and easy solution.
There will be more difficult obstacles to overcome during the machine's life. Even those which come up during the warranty coverage can require thought and action. Solving this yourself will make you better. Not solving this will do the opposite. I believe you are about one hour from roasting, or considedably longer. The choice is yours.
I, like most others here, wish you success.
Curtis
it's unlikely that a Chinese "North" roaster warranty is good for anything. But I bet you dollars to donuts that anything changed outside of what was shipped would immediately void any such warranty. Especially if it wasn't installed at the factory etc.
To the OP: why anyone would want to buy a Chinese roaster is beyond me, the discount isn't much more than a US roaster and you can actually get support and help. Should have listened to your pro roaster buddies.
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I had multiple discussions and emails with them about the color I wanted and even had to wait 2 months longer to get the one I wanted. Before the roaster shipped, there were pictures sent of our shipment and the color I purchased was shown in the picture. Then I receive the roaster and it is not the roaster I ordered. The transformer is not the same as in the instruction manual they sent with the roaster and has a permanent plug on it, not a removable one. I understand that mix-ups happen, but the response was that I needed to cut and strip the cord and replace the plug on the transformer and to open the transformer because there was also a loose wire that I sent them a picture. This is for a brand-new $4,500 roaster, not a used or DIY. If I want the correct roaster that I ordered and paid for, then I was told that I would have to pay to have it crated and pay for the shipping back to them. In addition to all of this, the fact that Dave stepped out of this and that Steve doesn't care that the wrong roaster was sent to me shows me that I would not be able to count on them for technical and customer support for their product, which is important when buying a roaster, especially your first "real" one(this was going to be an upgrade from Hottop).
This is such a bummer. Many professional roaster friends told me not to buy this roaster, but due to user reviews(apparently only the positive ones are allowed in threads on certain sites) and having Dave's endorsement, I tried it out. Hopefully the return will be settled sooner than later, so I can pursue other roaster options.
Thanks & Peace.
That sounds like you did all you could and you sound very reasonable. It's unfortunate that the response from Dave and SGreen(Steve) has not been reasonable. I am as shocked as probably everyone here that you haven't been given a reasonable solution. I am more shocked that there hasn't been anyone from Mill city (Dave and Steve) or HB (Jim Schulman, Dan, et.al.) hasn't said anything about this. We did have some spam like sales posts from Mill City/Dave/Steve when he first started working there but since then he hasn't been on the forums. It's odd behavior for sure. Sorry to hear that this is the case.
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Seems like the color mixup is a major problem. Did Mill City have an explanation how the wrong roaster was shipped out? What is their return policy? Are you planning on getting the right color machine or done with Mill City?
If your done with Mill City, then probably return is the best option. If you keep the machine, it's the wrong color at full price, and that's not fair either. What would it cost to re-paint the machine? What would be fair compensation for the mistake?
If you got the wrong color machine, did another customer also get the wrong color? Did North actually make the special order machine in your color choice?
You might try emailing North Coffee Roaster while deciding which way to go with this. Hopefully all gets sorted out soon.
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Hank brings up some good points.
Reminded me of a time the cops came and woke me up responding to a domestic violence call. After interviewing my Wife, searching the house, and asking a bunch of accusatory questions I said, "hey what if you are at the wrong house and the violence is still going on over there because you are here"?
And they left. ???
Somebody must be looking at a custom color roaster with the wrong plug thinking what the heck... Maybe a shipping swap is the ticket!
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For a return, the reply was that I would have to pay for the crating and the return shipping and then Steve would decide how much I would get back on the roaster. My credit credit card company told me not to agree to this and not pay to send the roaster back. Steve is also not willing to exchange for the correct roaster. My credit card company is very surprised at this situation since I clearly did not receive the correct roaster and the vendor is not providing customer service. Hopefully the staff at Mill City Roasters will give Steve their input so that they can make this right. At this point, I just want them to take the incorrect roaster back at their cost since they sent me the wrong one and give me a full refund. Then, I can say there was a mix-up, they took care of the situation fairly and both parties can move on.
What's ironic is that I was looking through my private messages from here and there is one that I sent a while back to BoldJava about interest in the US Roaster group buy, but it never materialized. Bummer!
Thanks again for your various perspectives and ideas.
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May I ask what color you ordered and what color you received? I'm just curious.
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If you used Amex they will probably just take the charge off your card before it even ships back.
They are incredibly pro member.
This sucks that you won't end up with a roaster at the end of the ordeal but ultimately your CC company won't pay. They will send some notice telling the vendor to prove the proper item was shipped but it sounds like you have a solid amount of info showing it wasn't. They will typically just reverse charges after investigation.
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Hank brings up some good points.
Reminded me of a time the cops came and woke me up responding to a domestic violence call. After interviewing my Wife, searching the house, and asking a bunch of accusatory questions I said, "hey what if you are at the wrong house and the violence is still going on over there because you are here"?
And they left. ???
Somebody must be looking at a custom color roaster with the wrong plug thinking what the heck... Maybe a shipping swap is the ticket!
Yes exactly.
But in this case. I mean out $5k and how many months of time? and then have to deal with a bunch of jerks who don't want to fix the problem they caused?
I would be done. I'm personally totally on the side of the OP on this. I wouldn't touch a North Roaster or anything dealing with these guys, the silence on this is deafening...no call for it. Looks like we have heard from Steve- himself ;D
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All of this is very confusing to me.
Nick purchased a blue roaster w/ a black chrome top. He received a blue roaster with a black chrome top, albeit apparently a lighter shade of blue than he expected. He was also told, and apparently conveniently forgotten, that color matching from China is always open to interpretation. The pics we shared with him are exactly the same color. We know now they look darker because they were taken in the shop after dark.
The roaster is set up for 220 volts. It is not voltage sensitive and can be run on normal single phase 208-240 volt current. The factory builds and includes a 220 volt step up transformer for ease of use. That transformer ships with a Chinese 3-prong plug. We shipped the roaster with a 120 volt Nema 5-15 plug and a step by step set-up guide. It is true that the cordset on the transformer recently changed to a molded plug that must be removed to install the Nema plug. To date, Nick is the first person we know of who has had a problem with this. Changing the transformer plug does not void any warranty.
We have apologized for the color, offered to send Nick a replacement transformer that doesn't require a plug change, and finally gave him the option to return the roaster for a full refund. Yes, per the terms of his purchase, he has to return the machine in good sellable condition and yes, he was informed our normal return policy dictates that he is required to pay shipping.
Strangely, I haven't heard back from him since offering to replace his transformer on Sunday morning. He, and as far as I know every other roaster purchaser, has got my mobile number and could have easily called to resolve this at any time.
I've contacted a crating company he can liaise with to return his roaster at our expense. Normally, we'd hope to work out our differences and put this behind us, but the histrionics simply aren't worth the effort.
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... the silence on this is deafening...no call for it,
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As for you Joe, I've had 21 guys roasting coffee on their new machines this weekend. Although none of them were stopped by that plug, I've been taking their calls and answering their questions all weekend not spending time on GCBC. My bad.
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All of this is very confusing to me.
Nick purchased a blue roaster w/ a black chrome top. He received a blue roaster with a black chrome top, albeit apparently a lighter shade of blue than he expected. He was also told, and apparently conveniently forgotten, that color matching from China is always open to interpretation. The pics we shared with him are exactly the same color. We know now they look darker because they were taken in the shop after dark.
The roaster is set up for 220 volts. It is not voltage sensitive and can be run on normal single phase 208-240 volt current. The factory builds and includes a 220 volt step up transformer for ease of use. That transformer ships with a Chinese 3-prong plug. We shipped the roaster with a 120 volt Nema 5-15 plug and a step by step set-up guide. It is true that the cordset on the transformer recently changed to a molded plug that must be removed to install the Nema plug. To date, Nick is the first person we know of who has had a problem with this. Changing the transformer plug does not void any warranty.
We have apologized for the color, offered to send Nick a replacement transformer that doesn't require a plug change, and finally gave him the option to return the roaster for a full refund. Yes, per the terms of his purchase, he has to return the machine in good sellable condition and yes, he was informed our normal return policy dictates that he is required to pay shipping.
Strangely, I haven't heard back from him since offering to replace his transformer on Sunday morning. He, and as far as I know every other roaster purchaser, has got my mobile number and could have easily called to resolve this at any time.
I've contacted a crating company he can liaise with to return his roaster at our expense. Normally, we'd hope to work out our differences and put this behind us, but the histrionics simply aren't worth the effort.
... the silence on this is deafening...no call for it,
As for you Joe, I've had 21 guys roasting coffee on their new machines this weekend. Although none of them were stopped by that plug, I've been taking their calls and answering their questions all weekend not spending time on GCBC. My bad.
Thanks Steve (As for me?) Anyways thanks for your response, it's good to hear from you since you replied you will get notifications if anymore posts happen. FYI I wasn't referring to you. Bold Java has been a regular poster for a long time, I assumed you were busy running your business but Dave is active in the various Forums.
BTW I moved this thread to it's appropriate position- in Hardware and equipment. I didn't realize it was in the coffee discussion board- my bad.
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That was what I was waiting for....the "other side of the story." As far as I am concerned, I am done here and the OP needs to deal with this on his own. The plug is a non issue and has been since my original post, anything having to do with a roaster once it is in my hands will need my hands to make/keep it running. I do appreciate your response to this Steve and is in keeping with the exceptional service from Mill City; THANK YOU for the response and everything you do and continue do to support your customers.
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That was what I was waiting for....the "other side of the story." As far as I am concerned, I am done here and the OP needs to deal with this on his own. The plug is a non issue and has been since my original post, anything having to do with a roaster once it is in my hands will need my hands to make/keep it running. I do appreciate your response to this Steve and is in keeping with the exceptional service from Mill City; THANK YOU for the response and everything you do and continue do to support your customers.
interesting response Nightflight. I'll wait to see what the colors are. If we are talking about electric blue vs china blue then I am still on the side of the OP if we are talking about a shade or two on the color spectrum I could see that being on picky side and would quickly see Steve's point of supposed buyers remorse. However I have ordered stuff from China before and while they might resemble the picture of the product (clothing etc) sometimes the arrived product is significantly cut differently, or the wrong color , etc... On those items it's usually not worth the effort but if I sank $5k or so into the product I would have a different opinion. Also I'm not so sure how hard it would be just to have someone show up and install the plug for the customer and call it a day if the color issue could be overcome.
Regardless, from what the OP has said they are discussing the solution with their CC company, and Legal options, so it really doesn't matter what you or I think. There is going to be some money left on the table somewhere.
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I agree and until I see the color...but Steve said he was willing to eat the cost of shipping so..."I've contacted a crating company he can liaise with to return his roaster at our expense." I am done! Work it out or return the damn thing and buy something else at a considerable premium. Perhaps I could buy it at a considerable discount. J/K because while I want a new roaster, I am cash strapped thorough the new year and am thinking that a YM2 would be a better fit for my needs.
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So Joe--would you really rather spend another 5 or 6 thousand dollars to get a US made roaster because it is the perfect color? I wonder how much a paint job on a North roaster would cost
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I agree and until I see the color...but Steve said he was willing to eat the cost of shipping so..."I've contacted a crating company he can liaise with to return his roaster at our expense." I am done! Work it out or return the damn thing and buy something else at a considerable premium. Perhaps I could buy it at a considerable discount. J/K because while I want a new roaster, I am cash strapped thorough the new year and am thinking that a YM2 would be a better fit for my needs.
Good catch didn't see that Steve agreed to return ship it. Yeah at that point I am sure his Credit Card company would be satisfied so there is no fight left in that. With the amount of Roasters Steve is selling, he should have no problem getting it to someone who want's one now. Insurance covers distributors as well if the product landed wasn't what was ordered. So Steve should recoup his shipping hopefully. But I bet the OP wouldn't have even posted if that was the response originally.
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So Joe--would you really rather spend another 5 or 6 thousand dollars to get a US made roaster because it is the perfect color? I wonder how much a paint job on a North roaster would cost
Good question, I am seeing several Chinese made roasters all priced at the same price point. buckeye Arizona roasters is an immediate one I can see. But I personally wouldn't be in the market for such a roaster.
I personally would scale Sonofresco's (commercial 1 lb-2lb) US made roasters. Or buy Used, I think I said that a few times, or wait until I needed a much bigger Roaster and see my options then but at that scale you aren't worried about saving $2-3k for a legitimate commercial situation and I definitely wouldn't look to China to provide my solution...So yeah I would pay less, or more, or buy used.
If I was the OP yeah I would still be pissed and want to be made whole again. It looks like Steve is dong that now so problem solved.
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I think Joe wants a candy apple red Huky. 8)
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This.....
Nick purchased a blue roaster w/ a black chrome top. He received a blue roaster with a black chrome top, albeit apparently a lighter shade of blue than he expected. He was also told, and apparently conveniently forgotten, that color matching from China is always open to interpretation.
Is why asked this question earlier. Knew there had to be more to the story.
May I ask what color you ordered and what color you received? I'm just curious.
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I think Joe wants a candy apple red Huky. 8)
They can't even spell Husky right. Why would I trust them to do the rest right?
I will say this for Chinese knock-offs of anything...God Bless them! Seriously they bring the costs down on US made or assembled stuff too and keep the pressure on the US companies to not get as greedy as they can. Especially on a niche market like roasters I have to Imagine, Dietrich, Ambex, et. al. are paying attention.
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My tongue is bleeding....
My feelings exactly.
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Hi all,
I wanted to let you know that Steve contacted me again after seeing my post in here. He offered to pay for crating/return shipping and issue me a refund for the roaster mix-up that occurred. I feel relieved that they are doing the right thing, thank you all for your input & ideas.
Thanks & Peace.
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Sorry, I thought my original post was deleted so I did not see it to respond to any color questions. I just saw Steve's response. I am not going to comment on it because A.) My intention from the get go was to get ideas/brainstorming how to proceed & B.) I am not interested in a he said/she said internet thing & do not feel I should have to copy/paste his initial email responses before I posted here & before the credit card company was contacted, to show the truth.
The colors are very different- attached below is the color I received(picture taken in the shade, even lighter w/ light), this is what I was told I was purchasing(picture taken during the day, in light) and this color was in a picture of our shipment about to ship to us- https://millcityroasters.com/roaster-news/can-color-want-long-red/). Plus, I didn't put into my first post that we initially agreed on a dark blue color that they already offer, he told me I didn't have to pay at that time because it was my roaster and just to pay before it ships. I called back to pay and they sold the roaster I custom ordered. After that roaster came in, I was told that they liked the color combination I came up with so much, that they were going to start carrying it and that it looked, "beautiful."(quote from a different worker @ MCR). Great, they liked the dark blue with black chrome combination that I wanted and they sold it to somebody else. Then they tried to get the correct color combination on a different order and I was told that it was verified with Mr. Lee in China that it would be in the next order. But then I was told later that it was not on that shipment and that I would have to wait longer. So yeah, the color thing has been a drag, but they knew exactly what I wanted and that it was important to me.
And yes, I didn't know I would have to cut and strip wires. I am not an electrician. I do know somebody who's father who was an electrician but died from an electrocution accident during a job. My wife's family has also had their house burn down to the ground. I was also told that if I modify the wiring on a major appliance, that it could affect home fire insurance. So yeah, I wasn't very excited about the transformer having a non-removable Chinese plug and that I would have to open the transformer because it came with a loose wire.
Thank you for this forum and credit card protection. Thank you to Steve for eventually taking care of the mix-up by paying for crating/return shipping and a full-refund.
Peace.
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Interested to see who will post next and what they will say. :-X btw I hate that color. I had a frost turquoise '67 mustang that I immediately painted dark blue.
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Well look at it this way.
After you have a few very good fires in your roaster the tone of the paint will soot down and be just what you ordered! He was just trying to prod you into using it :D
Glad it all worked out for you.
Aaron
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Just a few shades to light? It would be unacceptable here too. I am happy it worked out for you and I hope it wasn't too much hassle. What roaster are you now considering?
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Not that I need to justify why I would want the color I ordered, but I will anyways :) I am planning on using the roaster at a farmers market. I wanted the roaster to match my logo/label/bags, etc. I also wanted it to match the company shirts. That way, when my coffee bags are seen at the local stores on the shelves, the color is another thing that will stand out in the customer's mind(in addition to awesome tasting coffee? :) So this roaster was not just going to be sitting in my garage or basement used as an expensive hobby toy, but visible to potential customers. Too bad the vendor did not offer to make things right after sharing my initial concerns because I am assuming lots of folks would have asked me about the machine(which could potentially mean more sales for MCR).Our farmers market is one of the top farmer markets in the country.
There is a 3rd wave coffee shop here that I cup with and they too have been waiting for my shipment because they were going to come out to my house to check it out since they are in the market for a low cost roaster for roast profiling to add to their vintage 40lb. machine.
The vendor said that they did not offer the free shipping or replacement to work with me and used the word "histrionic" as their reason. Here is the the definition I found for histrionic- "too emotional or dramatic". This is interesting for a business to use as a reason not to try to work with a customer after the business has a mix-up. Hopefully the reasons I have provided show that I was not being "histrionic", but rather had very particular reasons why I was concerned about the wrong color and the transformer that needed alteration.
Peace.
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NightFlight- I am not sure, will let my pro roaster buddies know I am looking again. So I will probably go for a used roaster or save up and go for a new US Roaster Corps. Like many of us here, I love coffee, especially espresso and roasting. Hopefully I can get something in the near future, so I can get back to the craft I love and spread yummy coffee to others, so that they can start their day with a positive experience :)
Thanks & Peace.
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I know you are ready to roast and it is fairly easy to find used but getting the used can be difficult. I am in the same position and analysis paralysis can add to the problem. I am fairly sure that I want an ambex and I am also sure that I would make a short drive to get it. I am kicking myself on the YM2 that dengel picked up, and I am happy that dengel grabbed it. As soon as I have a few more dollars after January 1 or so; I am going to score a used YM2. A new USRC sample is too small too expensive and the North is a little too risky. I think a 2 lb. sonofresco may work and here I go with the paralysis again. Good luck in whichever way you go sir.
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I never understood something about buying a new Chinese roaster. I mean the Huky buyers of which John ordered one, you just contact the people direct make the transaction and it shows up on your door. But why that company particularly when you can find ohh quite a few from Alibaba, Aliexpress and such, usually for less than the North roaster. Adding Mill City to the mix is basically inviting a middleman to the transaction...why?
500g roaster tj-066? (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-sale-500g-coffee-roaster/32393670793.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.42.PdoKd1&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3_21_79_78_77_92_91_22_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_9)
1k tj-067? (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1kg-Automatic-stainless-steel-coffee-roaster-for-home/1443284834.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.64.PdoKd1&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3_21_79_78_77_92_91_22_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_9)
They are all the same there is no special we get our parts from Japan and Taiwan narrative that Mill city wants you to believe. Even if you were all about saving 1/3-1/2 the cost if a US made and supported or even a Turkish roaster, Spanish, Brazilian, etc.. Name your roaster. Just get it direct. If you don't like the electronics or switches, buy the ones you want.
Hey look Aliexpress has the Fotek controllers!!Fotek Temp controllers (http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=153709&initiative_id=AS_20151112090201&SearchText=fotek+temperature+controller)
My opinion is still that New commercial roasters are for suckers.
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NightFlight- I am not sure, will let my pro roaster buddies know I am looking again. So I will probably go for a used roaster or save up and go for a new US Roaster Corps. Like many of us here, I love coffee, especially espresso and roasting. Hopefully I can get something in the near future, so I can get back to the craft I love and spread yummy coffee to others, so that they can start their day with a positive experience :)
Thanks & Peace.
The roasters guild might be a place to post your interest and to see if any are available. Or like I said earlier you can deal with China directly through Alibaba, Aliexpress and ignore the "we make our roasters magic" once they land in the US speeches.
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Well look at it this way.
After you have a few very good fires in your roaster the tone of the paint will soot down and be just what you ordered! He was just trying to prod you into using it :D
Glad it all worked out for you.
Aaron
Plus all the lead in the paint isn't good for you anyways ;D
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Oh just keep the roaster you whiny little biotch :D THERE! is that histrionic enough for you. /sarcasm off
This probably won't work well at a farmers market it needs a LOT of juice but the Artisian 6? is it seems a decent roaster. I am seriously considering getting one for myself here once I get the pig sty I call my garage cleaned up a bit since that is probably where it will be, right next to the power panel. I think they are running around 4500 or so now including shipping and can do 5 lbs at a shot. I like the electric aspect of it because I don't want to diddle around with gas and propane tanks and that stuff. If electric leaks the breaker trips, if gas leaks the house goes boom and your coffee gets sprayed all over the block :P
Given what you want it for, you need to make a decision really. If you really want to get serious about the coffee, then you might want to take a bit of a plunge and get the bigger unit now, and grow into it, instead of blowing 6 grand for a small only to find out a year or so down the road you need to throw 15 grand for a bigger one to meet your needs, and hope to not get soaked too bad selling the small one.
You could possibly finance it as well and if you ARE a legit business, you can write all that crap off at the end of the year somewhat too. I know, spending that kind of money is one of those sleepless nights as you say holy #$$# what did I just do, but if you have the drive to run your business to success then you will be glad you made that bigger plunge. You will look back and say, man Im glad I went big up front, because it sure helped me grow my business without spending all my waking moments making coffee a pound at a crack.
Aaron
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Oh just keep the roaster you whiny little biotch :D THERE! is that histrionic enough for you. /sarcasm off
Yeah I that was a nice touch throw in a nice rarely used word for a subtle insult= "histrionic". All I can say is these threads along with all the group buys for Huky's and US Roasters etc... Have got me thinking. Stay tuned.
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My opinion is still that New commercial roasters are for suckers.
« Last Edit: Today at 09:03:35 AM by Joe »
Maybe I'm a sucker but I don't think so in this case. My North roaster does everything the USRC can, more than a small Deidrich, but cost me thousands and thousands of dollars less. Buying something directly from China is definitely *much* more risky than having Mill City be the middleman, IMO, and I think that's very clear.
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My opinion is still that New commercial roasters are for suckers.
« Last Edit: Today at 09:03:35 AM by Joe »
Maybe I'm a sucker but I don't think so in this case. My North roaster does everything the USRC can, more than a small Deidrich, but cost me thousands and thousands of dollars less. Buying something directly from China is definitely *much* more risky than having Mill City be the middleman, IMO, and I think that's very clear.
I can see that you feel as if you got your money's worth. Good for you, but with the current offerings all scraping $5k-10k it's not going to get me to jump. I bought my first "used" Sonofresco for $1500 and that was a big decision for me. It has since more than paid itself off and I would have paid off a North roaster as well albeit much further down the road. Don't worry 5 years from now there should be a plethora of successful Coffee tycoons selling their used "North" roasters for about $1000.
well it looks like you have the same protections as is very clear from this thread---through your credit card. No middleman or up-charge required. A quick search shows quite a bit of homogeny in the Chinese roaster market. I would take my chances if I was in the save money game for a New China roaster and just cut out the distributor who basically is placing an order for you exclusively. You can fly yourself to China with the savings just from going direct based on what I am seeing on Aliexpress. The Chinese roasters and Turkey roasters are attractive because of their cost, so why not complete that cycle and get it as cheap as possible, and use your buyer protection from your credit card? You can get the Mill city "North", or the Adventures with coffee(AWC) roaster, or the Buckeye roaster...What's the difference? Actually the other two options are cheaper..
I have seen used US roasters come in around the $5k range some more some less but for $5000 +/- $2000, if I am in the "way-better support" needed camp, I am going US made. If you are really stuck on the cost of it they are also about 1.5-3X as much as a "New" Sonofresco depending on model Sonofresco on Amazon who knew? (http://www.amazon.com/Sonofresco/b/ref=bl_dp_s_web_7936463011?ie=UTF8&node=7936463011&field-lbr_brands_browse-bin=Sonofresco). I understand that some people don't want to hear about Air roasting, sounds like you might be in that camp, I prefer it but I am a minority in this.
As you can probably tell, I don't care for Chinese commercial products personally even ones that are distributed and supported by a Great American business. Why? because even the distributors are at the mercy of the supplier. If the supplier goes belly up or has problems it rolls down hill and how can you hope to control anything originating in China that has nothing to do with the American Business. At that price point $5k+ which is the tween period of Pro vs extreme semi-pro, and beyond a home-roaster...it's still a lot of money, the discount isn't enough.
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My opinion is still that New commercial roasters are for suckers.
« Last Edit: Today at 09:03:35 AM by Joe »
Maybe I'm a sucker but I don't think so in this case.
ok Charly, stop being so histrionic ....hahahaha!!!
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Aaron- what size to you is a larger size for a small business? 3K? 5K? I was going to use the 1K North Roaster as a sample roaster, practice roast profiles and some production to get started. I have a cafe waiting for me to get things dialed in so that they can start using my coffee. I want to start out with having them feature my coffee once a week as a special local roast thing- both drip & espresso. I also plan on selling beans @ grower's market and do not have to have the roaster there, just thought it would be cool 8)
This has been an interesting purchasing experience, but thank you all for sharing your viewpoints. I wasn't much of a forum poster in the past, mainly just here ordering greens and lurking- pretty level-headed group! :)
Peace.
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I went to see a 6 lb Primo a couple of weeks ago locally; the owner had just scored a like new Diedrich IR12 with 25 hours on it for 20K. Think he was asking $6700 for the Primo which was only a couple of years old. Interesting machine, very simple design and operation. It sold to a guy in South Florida as my horse trading plan had stalled.
It is possible to find a deal on a used roaster, but can take both time and luck. Mill City is probably importing containers of roasters or large LCL shipments of machines. They eliminate all the hassles of self-importation (I imported my own machine, it was easy), support the owners, and make the minor changes we expect (data logging, regulators, hoses, etc.) You want a roster?, they got it or will have it soon; and this apparently is a market opportunity.
Glad to OP got things sorted out; time to look for a replacement. :)
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You want a roster?, they got it or will have it soon; and this apparently is a market opportunity.
Maybe. Looks like Kind_Karma waited several months for a custom color because the one color they wanted (blue-purple) originally supposedly sold out from under him and they say the wait time is several weeks (because they order ahead. That is several months that could've been spent on the finding one that meets the needs used and most likely better. This is a big country with several people moving roasters either up or down. Which allows for opportunities. According to Steve if you believe him they are moving several per month/weekend, I don't believe it nor do I believe that they order ahead to save time...I'm sorry, but I don't see them risking money for something that can turn on a dime. You order they order they inspect and then they send it to you. That is why they sent it to him anyways turquoise instead of dark blue.
Think of Espresso machines, I had an Elektra T-1, moved up from an Pasquini/Olympia Livietta and now use a Gaggia classic. Do I need to have three new machines? Nah I can use the used ones...Would I have got my use out of them, yes...but I got more than enough use out of the used ones too and a lot less invested.
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Kind_Karma would never find a used roaster in the color he wanted.
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Kind_Karma would never find a used roaster in the color he wanted.
Nice one Peter, gotta say I'm a little disappointed- Maybe you don't care....I know Dave and Steve are your pals, and you probably feel an overwhelming need to break their silence, especially Dave's. But it is kinda hard to take shots at Kind_Karma on this one. I would think you would have more pull calling out your pals on this one.
But let's just to pretend you are not making a burn,
Yep Most likely not "wanted". I definitely didn't want a candy apple red Sonofresco. But when you buy a used roaster knowing the color and it arrives that color then that seems like something you are prepared for or could live with. Not to mention the nice discount from the less than desirable color- Mine was $800, about 45% less than I had paid for my Stainless model used.
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I can be flexible on the color if I know what it is ahead of time. After we agreed on the color the logo and label were worked on(I had months to work on the design, since the orders kept getting pushed back). If we had agreed on a different color, I would have worked on incorporating that color on the logo/label. So it's not that I was stuck on that particular color, but that was the agreed color that I purchased. The roaster was brand-new and not used. I understand the need for being flexible on color when buying used. I also think that if I agree on a color & purchase a brand new roaster with say US Roasters or another coffee roaster vendor, then I would expect that color to be shipped to me. If not, I would want some compensation and being taken care of w/ good customer service- NOT described as "histrionic" and forced to contact my credit card company to file a dispute.
I respect your opinion peter because I have bought green beans from you in the past and have enjoyed them :) I understand that these could be your friends, but this is a business. I chose this vendor because of the reputation that is stated online and because of BoldJava. In the end, it's not whether you like someone(which I did) or they like you(guess they didn't?), business is business and $4,500 is a significant purchase.
I am not trying to ruffle feathers by sharing this experience. I was truly taken away by the initial responses I received from the vendor after the mix-up, that's why I posted in here for some guidance. Which, helped resolved the situation. I am still not sure why some would put me in the category of having done something wrong...or make negative comments towards me.
Peace.
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karma, the majority is not putting you in the 'bad guy' seat. No matter what you do, who you are, every decision you make, there will be at least one person who is not happy. Don't take it so personal. Don't have to be a gaping (_*_) on some things like I can be but it's not worth getting ruffled over, really it isn't.
Yes, if you are going to be roasting for a shop and your farmers market then YES, a 2 to 5K is a good starting point. Trust me, if someone orders 40 Lbs of coffee or you are doing 100 Lb a week, you do NOT want to be doing that in 1 to 2 lb increments. Remember, when you are roasting coffee, you really should *not* walk away from the thing while it is going. If only I would follow my own advice Id probably have had a few less fires in my Behmor, I claim old age / brain damage / CRS, whatever I can get away with for that :D But on that, do the simple math and figure the time you will be spending in front of your machine. Now throw in wifey pooh, lack of attention, .. see where this can go? The faster you can be done with it, the better, honestly. That honey do list isn't going to complete itself hehe.
Another thing to consider, you want to develop roast profiles, yes that is good, but... The roast profile you develop in one machine is NOT necessarily going to fit on a different / bigger machine. In order to get a 'true' roast profile on a machine you need to roast in IT. Throw a smaller batch in to get an idea and tweak as you do more.
The Artisan I mentioned you can roast as little as half a pound at a time and up to 5 Lbs. I have heard some people say they can do almost 6 Lbs in it. Id say the type of beans plays a significant part of that, but that's a different topic.
If you already have that shop pretty much committed to buying coffee from you, Id say get the big machine, yes it's a chunk of change up front but you already have a 'money source' ie a sales path so it's not a shot in the dark, the income is already established pretty much.
Its something to think about.
Aaron
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My comment on the color has nothing to do with any friendship I may or may not have - that's irrelavant to the discussion, and I'm sorry that you brought that into it. It was nothing more than a comment regarding Joe's push toward buying used, thinking that if the OP needed a specific color, buying used wasn't a reasonable option...
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My comment on the color has nothing to do with any friendship I may or may not have - that's irrelavant to the discussion, and I'm sorry that you brought that into it. It was nothing more than a comment regarding Joe's push toward buying used, thinking that if the OP needed a specific color, buying used wasn't a reasonable option...
Well I am for one glad to hear that. Because it reads like Kind_Karma is being histrionic or irrational, or was maybe picky. Knowing your connections to Mill City and its main people it doesn't come off as "gee would you be able to get past the color, if you were to buy used?" But if it was simply out of concern for Kind_Karma and his dilemma, then I apologize for pointing out your connections to Dave and Steve and for assuming that maybe that had more to do with your reason for posting what appeared to read like a burn.
But my answer still stands. I think you are getting hung up on the "Needed" part as a rational for not going used or for looking at other options. I don't think the "Needed" Part was ever discussed. It was an "ordered" thing. Putting myself in the buyers shoes: when I order something, I expect it done as ordered exactly. Someone at Mill city was looking at a turquoise roaster and said "let's ship this thing to the customer", not "ohh man! The color is way wrong, I don't think he is going to like this. BTW lets get the right plug or step up converter whatever we agreed to before it leaves as well". Nope they pushed it through and here we are. Needing is for Taxes, food, air, water, all that jazz. If I order a gooseneck kettle and it comes as a flip top, I'm sending it back. If I ordered a Death Star Waffle maker and I get a Han Solo frozen in Carbonite- I'm sending it back. If I order a Black fridge and it comes back red it's going back. If I order a dark blue roaster and wait 3 months for it and it comes back turquoise....uhhhh gonna go back for sure.
I will say that I wouldn't have let it go home with me from the freight dock assuming I got that far into the transaction, I would have refused delivery then and there. That is the only part I don't get from Kind_Karma. Maybe that wasn't an option?
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I'm with you on buying used whenever practical, which in my book would be 99% of the time. My Ambex came from a past GCBC member, and saved me almost $4K.
I'm also with you on getting exactly what I pay for. Even if it means being histrionic. ;D
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I'm with you on buying used whenever practical, which in my book would be 99% of the time. My Ambex came from a past GCBC member, and saved me almost $4K.
I'm also with you on getting exactly what I pay for. Even if it means being histrionic. ;D
That's a nice discount. I could consider an Ambex at that cut. I usually see Ambex and Dietrichs in Yellow or Orange. What color is yours ;D? My Son is color deficient so he has always loved the color "Yellow" So I wouldn't send back a yellow one.
I was just looking at the old group buys and those US roasters are still under $5k right? Why consider China when that is on the table?
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It may have been closer to a $3.5K discount... I'm not real sure what the new ones were selling for four years ago, as I wouldn't have ever considered new.
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Ahh you got the safety red like my sonofresco.....at the reduced discount...I'm out ;D
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I would prefer a good price over the right color any day myself.
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I would prefer a good price over the right color any day myself.
And I'm sure the OP would too, if the sequence of his decisions and purchases would've allowed him to do so.
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I would prefer a good price over the right color any day myself.
And I'm sure the OP would too, if the sequence of his decisions and purchases would've allowed him to do so.
I didn't mean my comment as a critique of the OP in any way. I meant it more as expressing my personal preference in tune with what you guys were talking about in the posts preceding mine. I would have been quite unhappy if I was in the situation the OP was in.
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This craze of purchasing a bigger roaster makes me value my little old Behmor all the more.
I'm looking at getting a Huky, and I'm liking the simplicity of a small(er) purchase more every day. However, I know that isn't an option for you higher volume guys. :)
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This craze of purchasing a bigger roaster makes me value my little old Behmor all the more.
I'm looking at getting a Huky, and I'm liking the simplicity of a small(er) purchase more every day. However, I know that isn't an option for you higher volume guys. :)
Yeah I have the similar issues, although I personally would never consider a Behmor:
When I look at the Ambex, USRC, Dietrich, or other small commercial roasters...I look at the footprint, the piping, the space, etc.. If I had a small shop I would probably think differently. I guess for areas where there is a basement or some other logical place...OK Peter's looks like it works for his home. Otherwise it would be a special shed with gas piping...cha ching cha ching. The price of the roaster is just the beginning.
I look at the Huky, it looks somewhat hokey, almost toy-like but really seems to be over priced for what it is just under $2000 for that and it's made in China? (John is gonna punch me when he reads that.) But at least I can understand the Huky people I mean if the jump is $3000+ for around a 1-2lb roaster that is commercial quality I would definitely consider the Huky but quickly get a Sonofresco. The Huky has a really neat perforated drum though, I'm not sure why that concept isn't on every commercial drum roaster.
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This craze of purchasing a bigger roaster makes me value my little old Behmor all the more.
I'm looking at getting a Huky, and I'm liking the simplicity of a small(er) purchase more every day. However, I know that isn't an option for you higher volume guys. :)
Yeah I have the similar issues, although I personally would never consider a Behmor:
When I look at the Ambex, USRC, Dietrich, or other small commercial roasters...I look at the footprint, the piping, the space, etc.. If I had a small shop I would probably think differently. I guess for areas where there is a basement or some other logical place...OK Peter's looks like it works for his home. Otherwise it would be a special shed with gas piping...cha ching cha ching. The price of the roaster is just the beginning.
I look at the Huky, it looks somewhat hokey, almost toy-like but really seems to be over priced for what it is just under $2000 for that and it's made in China? (John is gonna punch me when he reads that.) But at least I can understand the Huky people I mean if the jump is $3000+ for around a 1-2lb roaster that is commercial quality I would definitely consider the Huky but quickly get a Sonofresco. The Huky has a really neat perforated drum though, I'm not sure why that concept isn't on every commercial drum roaster.
I like the Sonofresco, but finding them used seems to be a challenge. Not everything made in China is garbage. Some quality goods come from there. It is just hard to root through the garbage. For instance Apple contains Chinese parts and their products are good quality (for the most part).
This is probably what makes Mill City Roaster's North roaster so desirable over going to Alibaba/express. It is an American company vouching for the quality, like many have done for the Huky.
I think the Behmor is a great start into the roasting world, low price for someone that isn't sure if roasting is for them. However, I agree it leaves ALOT to be desired, primarily due to the LONG cool times. >:(
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Interesting discussion! Seeing Peter's nice setup brought a question to mind. For those of you who roast at home, whether business or personal, or a combination of both, has anyone run into any issues with homeowner's associations or restrictive covenants that's caused problems? Just curious and hopefully not too much of a highjack.
Chris
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Correct not everything is total crap but there seems to be compromises.
So the Behmor -Joe Behm engineered his creation and then took his plans to China over several years ago iirc and had everything made and tested according to his plans. Albeit that it was based off a prototype of a modified Ronco rotisserie roaster. I have a lot of respect for someone who does this, although nowadays the trend is coming back to keeping stuff stateside. That is one example.
the Huky, found online by someone became popular on the various forums after a few people ordered it directly through the creator and were happy with it. We heard about it through Susan iirc They were bought direct I am assuming through Alibaba or something similar. There is a manual hand crank drum that looks similar on eBay. So far, this is a unicorn not really copied on aliexpress yet. You can still buy them direct I think (ask John for the contact info) unless you fly over tomorrow and do what MCR did. From what I understand the original creator didn't want to mass produce these roasters.
North roaster is still on Aliexpress and Alibaba, MCR became their US distributor, now north America. Steve or MCR did not develop a roaster they became the distributor for something that already existed. However there are what looks to be several competitors all with very similar roasters. Like I said it seems very homogenous, if buying through MCR makes you feel better than dealing with Aliexpress then yes your right, but now there are other American companies doing the drop ship game with the Chinese roasters so I'm not too sure why you would pick one over the other except for price. I mentioned a few and that is with a very mild google search.
My argument would be that your best reassurance and protection is still through your CC if that type of commerce seems scary. But it doesn't seem even necessary at the $5k price point, it looks like there are similar options in the good ole USA. The sonofresco brand New is still Cheaper than North, Buckeye, etc..
I guess the question is why go through MCR or Buckeye, or AWC? what's the hook?
All are available through eBay also.- just saw the MCR North roaster. I looked on the feedback they must've just started selling these on eBay because there isn't any feedback for the roasters on their profile.
There is the USRC the Toper cafemino, used Ambex for comparable price, not really sure what the hook is for a Chinese/Taiwanese roaster. I could understand if it was German or Japanese where their engineering and such would be something that would tip the scales.
eBay has plenty. It's unusually thin on used Sonofresco's though.
eBay commercial roaster (http://www.ebay.com/sch/Coffee-Roasters-/57070/i.html?_nkw=commercial%20coffee%20roaster&_sacat=57070&_frs=1)
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Interesting discussion! Seeing Peter's nice setup brought a question to mind. For those of you who roast at home, whether business or personal, or a combination of both, has anyone run into any issues with homeowner's associations or restrictive covenants that's caused problems? Just curious and hopefully not too much of a highjack.
Chris
I know Chris did. He had to sell me his Sonofresco cause of it. (Townhouse hoa). He also had to sell his weber smokey mountain I didn't get that :( but he now has a BGE.
If your home is not in a PUD, Condo, HOA situation then CC&R's, local zoning come into play. Usually a lb or less you won't run into any problems but I have heard that some local zoning in urban areas requires afterburners on low volume 5lb roasters and permit issues as well.
Not to mention that you should disclose to your home insurance your situation as well.
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Thanks for the information Joe. Good points too on the insurance. I was thinking with all the potential issues, that some day when I retire, I'll set up the mobile lab roaster in an RV and drive out to the desert to "cook", Breaking Bad style ;D
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Thanks for the information Joe. Good points too on the insurance. I was thinking with all the potential issues, that some day when I retire, I'll set up the mobile lab roaster in an RV and drive out to the desert to "cook", Breaking Bad style ;D
hahahaha..That's funny. Get the mobile Pizza oven too and make a fun trip out of it.
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I can vouch for the Taiwan built Yang-Chia Machine Works machines; mine has been flawless since 2011; the 1K they make has been in production since 1999 and it's stupid easy to roast on. Cast iron drums precisely machined, fine adjustable air valve, adjustable drum speed, separate bean cooler with fan and stirrer. So the features are top notch; not some knock off, look alike.
Since then I've had a chance to see the USRC one pounder and SF1; between those two I like the USRC best. Too bad the group buy west south, that was an opportunity to get one in your choice of color. ;)
If someone wanted a Feima roaster from BellaTaiwan, they speak English and are totally trustworthy. But you would have to pay for the roaster in full, wire transfer, no PayPal. Bella arranges shipping, the little ones can go air all the rest by sea. You just have to contact an agent before the cargo leave port; and the LCL consolidator will stay in touch with you. Best to pick it up at the closest port yourself, shipping charges cover Taiwan to closest US port city.
Like I said, Mill City takes care of all of work involved in selecting and importing a small roaster; although it's not that difficult to do providing one does their homework. They have a budget 500g roaster in the works that's going to slot in between the Huky and Mini500, USRC, SF1.
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Thanks Hank, that sounds along the lines of what I was describing.
The USRC group buy is just laying there waiting for someone to pick up the ball. I would think it would be just as easy as getting anything going for a group buy.
It looks like we aren't the only group where there has been some controversy regarding these roasters, some of the agendas, interesting reactions etc.
SM forums MCR (http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5661&f=13) If you read the first page it reads almost like a love story...but then...
Also I would like to correct something that Dave says on pg. 2 as a way of vouching for what was going on at the SM Forums and giving Cred for Steve at SM's he says he is an active poster here at GCBC, HB and CG. I'd like to point out that Steve has about 120 posts on our forums as of today which isn't quite noob status but isn't quite at what I would consider Active. A lot of the posts seem to be focused on securing roasters.. A note on that would be; Please don't use us as a reference for what you do or say on other forums.
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I went to see a 6 lb Primo a couple of weeks ago locally; the owner had just scored a like new Diedrich IR12 with 25 hours on it for 20K. Think he was asking $6700 for the Primo which was only a couple of years old. Interesting machine, very simple design and operation. It sold to a guy in South Florida as my horse trading plan had stalled.
Hmmm That Primo sounds familiar. Is this the same Primo Paul/Curly was trying to sell? I haven't seen any of his various threads around the various forums modified to sold yet. If so, he was stating that he was getting some 10k North roaster or something.
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This was a Yellow Primo 6 pounder at Dos Cafe in St. Augustine FL; owner bought it used last November and previous owner had it for a year. Condition was super clean, which would jive with the guesstimated age. A Roastery in South Florida bought the Primo; I'll probably hear if the deal falls through.
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This was a Yellow Primo 6 pounder at Dos Cafe in St. Augustine FL; owner bought it used last November and previous owner had it for a year. Condition was super clean, which would jive with the guesstimated age. A Roastery in South Florida bought the Primo; I'll probably hear if the deal falls through.
I would guess that is a different Primo then because the one Curly has been describing is in Minnesota I think. That seems odd to have a couple of Primo's on the block at the same time.
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Did anyone get the Turquoise Roaster? If so was it discounted?
That would actually be a funny kinda cool thing to have now..
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Apparently that roaster gets around :P
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Apparently that roaster gets around :P
:D :D 8)
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I just ran into this thread. I am wondering if the OP's credit card offers protection for overseas purchases or used. Mine doesn't.
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I just ran into this thread. I am wondering if the OP's credit card offers protection for overseas purchases or used. Mine doesn't.
That would be a bummer. All mine do, they cover all online purchases. I'm not sure how they could get around that, what card do you have that doesn't offer purchase protection?
Used purchase protection from a credit card would have to go through a site like eBay or Paypal. If they accept Visa,amex,etc. then it should be protected..
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Not sure which card I was using when I read the fine print that said PP. was only available for In-State purchases. I am now using 2 Visas and an Am. Ex.
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Not sure which card I was using when I read the fine print that said PP. was only available for In-State purchases. I am now using 2 Visas and an Am. Ex.
I would check again, all Major credit cards offer online purchase protection that I know of, and that obviously covers the world. I had disputed a problem with an Aliexpress (China) order that went bad...no problem. Got my money back immediately and had some hoops to jump through but not many.
Paypal, eBay, Amazon etc.. All ship items from China and used and have excellent buyers protection in addition.
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The concern wasn't for just the the plug. If it were I'm not sure that would be a major sticking point. The OP ordered a much darker blue and got frost turquoise and then had an odd public shaming by people such as yourself whom have had good experiences with MCR and then Steve Green chimed in as well.
I don't think many people much care about how they handle themselves when everything is going as it should or as it was explained. I think the concern and discussion was more centered around when stuff went wrong and how it was handled.
I think most people who have read the whole thread can see the forest through the trees and if you are happy with your commercial roaster then I think most folks here would be happy for you.
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Good points Joe.
Oh I had GREAT SERVICE, well that's nice, and you should have great service, it IS a business after all.
It's when the service isn't good, or there are major issues that really define a company. Sooner or later, every business man is going to have a problem somewhere, how do they handle it? We have 100 satisfied customers, so are not worried about 1 or 2 crybabies is not a good model to run a business on. Oh just give him a 5 dollar off coupon on his next purchase to shut him up, is not really 'fixing' the core problem either. Well have Dave pretend to be the manager and call on the phone and apologize (but still not fix the problem) is not acceptable either in the customers eyes. He's mad at Dave now, well hand the phone over to Bill who can pretend to be the district manager.....
To be honest Id rather see a few posts where folks HAVE had problems with a company and how the company handled it, ... THAT the company handled it instead of 100 YaaYYYYYYY they were Graaaaaaate.
The Problem happened - Problem solved posts give a much greater insight into a companies true core values than all the Mee Too, See, I pushed the Like button also! ones do.
Also, as for the plug comment, perhaps it's not so much the 'ease' or 'comfort' level of the individual in changing the plug that is the issue, but rather the principle that he HAD to change it. I shouldn't be expected to know how to overhaul the engine to 'be deemed competent' to drive the car. Oh your car had bald tires on when it was delivered, well, just go change them, Im sure you can find a good deal on new ones.
You can have your car in any color you want, as long as it's black.
Aaron
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Solid post Aaron. I think I agree with every point of that.
I also get super suspicious of under 5 post members who's first few posts would be on this thread. It's not the easiest thread to find and I can't imagine that commercial vendor items is the first forum that said "hey let's get into this conversation"
It looks like someone from MCR is doing damage control. Looking at their behavior on other forums of sending customers to report all is well, and having a model that promotes in forums says it's not out of the realm of possibility.
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Enough, Joe. You're being such a @#$% here and I can't figure out why. One customer complained about getting the wrong colored roaster, and after some back and forth gets his money back. Ambex screwed over customers for years (all's ok now under new management I think) and *crickets* from you. I bought my roaster from Mill City, it's everything I ever hoped for and more. Customer service has been excellent, and nobody from MC asked me to defend them here. Aaron has always been a grouch but you seem to have something personal going on.
Charly
mod edit: Keep the language clean in the non HT threads please.
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I find is disgusting that somebody would go public with a problem that was an obvious mistake, not having the brains to resolve it on there own, I have no respect for that guy.
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This sounds like a bad start to worse ongoing experience. I bought a roaster a few months ago and have been experiencing such problems, different company. I had a screw that should have been a rivet, fall into the roasting apparatus, which later went into my 1K grinder, because I didn't notice it had fallen off in with the roasting beans. The screw froze up my burs, and that cost money too. There were other problems also and the result I got when requesting help, "you are the kind of customer all businesses hate to deal with." BBB is my suggestion, if you don't get what you feel is "fair!"
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Actually Sea, given the initial response he got, it was fair game to go public with his issue IMO. The issue got resolved, THAT is what is important here. The issue DID get resolved. I agree with you that minor stuff folks should resolve in the background and not try to stir up the typical facebook drama but in this case, it was probably warranted.
Even if it was just 'trivial' stuff, bringing it to the public's eye and saying, "Hey, I had a bit of a problem with so and so, but WOW, did they fix it and FAST", is actually GOOD PR for them. Stuff happens, we all know that, we get it, but seeing that a company DOES stand behind their customers when things aren't picture perfect means a LOT to everyone.
Now one could argue that perhaps the issue would not have been resolved to the extent it did if he did NOT go public with it, but that's all just speculation, there is no way to ever know that and folks will believe what they want to believe.
Yes there are dirt bag business people out there.
Yes there are crybaby customers out there.
But having a venue such as this, where both sides can post their 'side' of the story, helps alleviate a lot of the bullshit and drama that can often happen when only 'one' side is being told and that person wants to play the victim. It allows the reader (that would be us) to develop our own opinions and theories on what is really going on. Honestly, I can't see this being anything but GOOD from a business stand point, it protects both the customer and the vendor.
For the record, the problem WAS taken care of. I don't see how this is a further issue, unless other folks are having problems as well.
Aaron
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I think if you don't have management and problem solving skills you probably shouldn’t even think about going into business, if a vendor refuses to respond to a problem I would have had an attorney send a certified letter demanding a resolution, as Robert said, there is always two sides of a story, in this case only one side was public.
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sea and Robert, I believe the other party DID post here with their 'side' of the story. If they didn't, they certainly had the opportunity to, so if it did not occur, that's on them. In fact, I believe it was their posting that brought about the short lived but vibrant sub thread of 'Histrionics' that went on in here.
If the problem was with SM's I think the same 'results' would have happened. GCBC is not aligned or 'allied' with SM's in any way to the best of my knowledge, so no they would not get kid glove treatment. In fact when you look at some of the histories with some of our members and SM's I bet the topic would be VERY alive.
When you look at the thread evolution, we were discussing credit cards and some not having overseas warranties. The genre of the 'topic' had well strayed from the OP, as happens often around here. The original problem was then kind of Lazarus ed, and everyone's butt hurt again.
If it bothers you so much, then why keep it alive by commenting, and not just let it die off? People love to post and suffer their 'outrages' but in the process of doing so, are just adding to the problem even more, and when you look at what the problem apparently is that is offending you, you are doing the exact same thing!
Just saying.
Aaron
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The fact that this thread was stickied is sickening. Just proves my point about it being personal. If this had been SM's or any other vendor it would have died out long ago.
That wasn't me so I think anyone can sticky it...I'll unstick it now.
But I'm not sure of some of the personal feelings about this. Sounds like some people have a lot of skin in it or as you call it "personal"
I mean Charly is slinging curse words and personal attacks for what? Because I let people say their side of the story? Doth protest too much!
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sea and Robert, I believe the other party DID post here with their 'side' of the story. If they didn't, they certainly had the opportunity to, so if it did not occur, that's on them. In fact, I believe it was their posting that brought about the short lived but vibrant sub thread of 'Histrionics' that went on in here.
If the problem was with SM's I think the same 'results' would have happened. GCBC is not aligned or 'allied' with SM's in any way to the best of my knowledge, so no they would not get kid glove treatment. In fact when you look at some of the histories with some of our members and SM's I bet the topic would be VERY alive.
When you look at the thread evolution, we were discussing credit cards and some not having overseas warranties. The genre of the 'topic' had well strayed from the OP, as happens often around here. The original problem was then kind of Lazarus ed, and everyone's butt hurt again.
If it bothers you so much, then why keep it alive by commenting, and not just let it die off? People love to post and suffer their 'outrages' but in the process of doing so, are just adding to the problem even more, and when you look at what the problem apparently is that is offending you, you are doing the exact same thing!
Just saying.
Aaron
Once again someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight actually remembers with dead on accuracy or maybe has the skills to read through the thread. for those that are interested read the entire thread.
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Enough, Joe. You're being such a d@#$ here and I can't figure out why. One customer complained about getting the wrong colored roaster, and after some back and forth gets his money back. Ambex screwed over customers for years (all's ok now under new management I think) and *crickets* from you. I bought my roaster from Mill City, it's everything I ever hoped for and more. Customer service has been excellent, and nobody from MC asked me to defend them here. Aaron has always been a grouch but you seem to have something personal going on.
Charly
Odd response, Charly,
Do me a favor and read my first 2-3 posts quote them if you like. I think I said something to the effect that it should all work out and that the people involved would definitely make this right. hmmmm...? That doesn't seem to go in line with the picture your painting.
I'm glad you got your North roaster, enjoy it. I don't recall anyone saying anything different.
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Well said Aaron, I shouldn't expect any folks to live the way I conduct myself, we live in a world of distrust , fear of getting screwed, paranoia , a bunch of angry people out there.
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Well said Aaron, I shouldn't expect any folks to live the way I conduct myself, we live in a world of distrust , fear of getting screwed, paranoia , a bunch of angry people out there.
But to be clear both sides got out. It just so happened that the other side everyone was waiting for wasn't really a good thing. The pictures of the roaster colors were in particular mind changing to most people who had defaulted to the unspoken side.
On the attorney stuff in your previous post, that is always a last resort and there would have to be several steps taken to resolve stuff out of court. Most people don't want to spend $300 for an attorney to draft a letter to encourage the right decision when usually people make the right decision when given the opportunity. Or if there is purchase protection from your funding source which was the answer to the original question. not to mention that the amount of potential damage was small claims at most= no attorneys.
MCR had made the right decision eventually and thus avoided the OP taking additional steps.
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I would like to request we let this topic die off a natural death. I think both sides have stated their feelings and the air is clear now... at least hopefully a bit cleaner.
I understand there may be some 'personal' issues still left unsolved here.
I would respectfully request that the parties involved please take it to Private Messages.
I can honestly not see anymore benefit to be gained by comments directed towards individuals anymore in this thread.
Lets leave it as is and keep our dignities.
Thank you.
Aaron