NS Oscar, QM Silvano or Other - Which would you get?

[EricBNC]

I have a line on a new Oscar HX espresso machine for $850 shipped and a new QuickMill Silvano for $950 shipped.  These would be purchased using credits, not cash so the choices are limited - machines less than these I am not interested in - the more expensive ones would take forever to reach with credits alone. 

My finance director is not in the mood to approve any more coffee related purchases in the near future so the credit is my working capital.

The Oscar, according to Tex and some others has temp stability issues - this is what made me consider the Silvano.  The Silvano has an adjustable PID, external access pressure adjustment and pressure gauge,  0.7 liter (~21 fl oz) boiler, and thermoblock steam that operates independently with it's own pump and control.

What would you buy if you were able to pick one of these?

[Tex]

I've had two Oscars, and sold both. That said, I'd take any real HX over a pseudo double boiler any day.


edited: If you can rub your belly while patting your head, you're an excellent candidate for refurbing a used commercial machine, which would give you a no-compromise espresso machine.

[peter]

edited: If you can rub your belly while patting your head, you're an excellent candidate for refurbing a used commercial machine, which would give you a no-compromise espresso machine.

Would it be possible to purchase either machine with your credits, and then sell it NIB, using that cash toward a used commercial machine?

I'm sure you've read the Silvano threads on HB.  I haven't, but that would be great starting place.

[EricBNC]

That is a possibility Peter - I was hoping for a single transaction though. So the Silvano isn't considered a contender?  The CG thread didn't down it from what I read.  Tex, it sounds like you would pick the Oscar over the Silvano, but not want either...

[Tex]

That is a possibility Peter - I was hoping for a single transaction though. So the Silvano isn't considered a contender?  The CG thread didn't down it from what I read.  Tex, it sounds like you would pick the Oscar over the Silvano, but not want either...

I would never have a thermoblock machine - so the Silvano is out, never even getting a look-see out.

Oscar is a nice machine, but for $1000+ new, it's got issues: cheap looking plastic case, no hot water dispenser, clear out the milk container force from the steam tip, smallish boiler for a HX, and substandard intrashot temp stability compared to other HX machines.

Plus it's BIG, as in almost as big as the honkin-big Nuova Simonelli commercial single group machines. Unless I could pick one up cheap - like $300 to $400 cheap - I'd opt for a machine I knew was going to be my last machine, not something I'd be looking to upgrade a year later.

[peter]

That is a possibility Peter - I was hoping for a single transaction though. So the Silvano isn't considered a contender?  The CG thread didn't down it from what I read.  Tex, it sounds like you would pick the Oscar over the Silvano, but not want either...

Some like the Silvano over at HB.  Not all thermoblocks machines are created equal.

[EricBNC]

I like the controls on the Silvano - PID, pressure adjustment, large boiler - kind of like my Gaggia but with a lot of improvements.  The Oscar isn't too big either - I already have one of these with what probably is a cracked HX.  Thanks Tex too for helping me troubleshoot this - the NS service rep agrees based on what I described and we tried over the phone.  A new boiler will cost me around $500, If I came out of pocket tonight I could pick up the brand new Oscar for half that amount. 

Remember though, these are credits - not cash so the extra $100 to get the Silvano would not be a real out of pocket cost, just an opportunity cost.  If I could save credits till I could afford the Quickmill Anita I would, but who can say they will even be selling the line by the time I get up to that amount?

Here is another option though: The Wega Mininova. Is this machine worth recommending or running away from?  I am half way to this one right now - If it is a lot better I can show some patience in spite of my nervousness about ending up with nothing if I wait too long - espresso poker anyone?.



Stainless steel construction
Electroplated steel chassis
E61 group head
Heat exchange

The Mininova is the perfect machine for lower volume applications or for the sophisticated espresso drinker at home. This is a small, sleek looking machine, perfect for behind the bar in small cafes or at the server's station.

Semi-automatic espresso coffee machine with electromechanical push button. One chromed steam wand – one manual hot water tap – Autolevel. Volumetric pump(PR model) for water mains connection. Vibrating pump(PV model) with incorporated 1,5lt water reservoir.
Thermo syphon/siphon circulation
Available in Volumetric or Semi Automatic

[EricBNC]

I think you need an HX... Bezzera Strega lever. 

Don't get me started - I am only $300 away from the La Pavoni Professional and only $100 away from a new La Pavoni Europiccola. I am trying to resist the lever - must resist the lever...

[Tex]

That is a possibility Peter - I was hoping for a single transaction though. So the Silvano isn't considered a contender?  The CG thread didn't down it from what I read.  Tex, it sounds like you would pick the Oscar over the Silvano, but not want either...

Some like the Silvano over at HB.  Not all thermoblocks machines are created equal.

People on H-B & CG are rating it based on puppy-love, not reality. There are no thermoblocks made that'll fit into small espresso machines, that are the equal of a real boiler - either in performance or life expectancy. As an example - just look at the POS from Quick Mill that Chris was selling as a stand-alone steamer. It had the H-B & CG crowds drooling on themselves, until Chris realized it was crap and pulled it. I'll bet it has the same thermoblock as the Silvano?

Now as a PIDed SBDU machine, I'd have to give it a look-see, but as a DB? Two thumbs down!

[EricBNC]

People on H-B & CG are rating it based on puppy-love, not reality. There are no thermoblocks made that'll fit into small espresso machines, that are the equal of a real boiler - either in performance or life expectancy. As an example - just look at the POS that Chris was selling as a stand-alone steamer. It had the H-B & CG crowds drooling on themselves, until Chris realized it was crap and pulled it.

Now as a PIDed SBDU machine, I'd have to give it a look-see, but as a DB? Two thumbs down!

So if making milk drinks was a low priority then the Silvano is worth considering again?

Also I see now that the MiniNova is the same machine as the Lyrca and Astoria Compact - that might be worth rolling the dice for - If I got to $950 for the Silvano I could write a check for $250 more and have this machine instead - my broken Oscar could go to a good home looking for a parts machine to help offset the $250.  The Wega has an E-61 group head but not the whole E-61 lever control and pre-infusion chamber. Is this a big or little compromise?

I wonder too if the Oscar would make more sense as a home use machine?  I would already have a source of parts for the Oscar too - something worth considering.

[Tex]

People on H-B & CG are rating it based on puppy-love, not reality. There are no thermoblocks made that'll fit into small espresso machines, that are the equal of a real boiler - either in performance or life expectancy. As an example - just look at the POS that Chris was selling as a stand-alone steamer. It had the H-B & CG crowds drooling on themselves, until Chris realized it was crap and pulled it.

Now as a PIDed SBDU machine, I'd have to give it a look-see, but as a DB? Two thumbs down!

So if making milk drinks was a low priority then the Silvano is worth considering again?

Also I see now that the MiniNova is the same machine as the Lyrca and Astoria Compact - that might be worth rolling the dice for - If I got to $950 for the Silvano I could write a check for $250 more and have this machine instead - my broken Oscar could go to a good home looking for a parts machine to help offset the $250.  The Wega has an E-61 group head but not the whole E-61 lever control and pre-infusion chamber. Is this a big or little compromise?

I wonder too if the Oscar would make more sense as a home use machine?  I would already have a source of parts for the Oscar too - something worth considering.

Who would pay you 95% of retail price for a used machine? Maybe you could recoup 75% of the retail cost - maybe!

My advice is to get the machine you really want, without the machinations. If you have to wait then get a used Gaggia to tide you over. Hell, I know a lot of experts who'd advise not getting a Rolls Royce of an espresso machine until you've absolutely mastered a SBDU machine. They have a lot to teach aspiring baristas.

[EricBNC]

I have a used Gaggia right now and I like it.  My worry is a bit of a timing problem instead of a cost problem.  If I had $600 in my pocket then saving $100 more is easy math.  My fear is what if this credit program changes in a month, or these type of machines are no longer available in 3 - 4 months (want a good deal on a Super-Auto new in the box just in time for Christmas?) then I am just out of luck - not out of pocket but a missed opportunity just the same.  My fear is based in reality too - at least in my opinion.  Used to be you could buy that monster 68mm conical Wega/CompaK on ROASTe. I do not see it being offered any longer.  The line up changes fast with big ticket items so I would hate to wait and miss out.

[Tex]

I have a line on a new Oscar HX espresso machine for $850 shipped and a new QuickMill Silvano for $950 shipped.  These would be purchased using credits, not cash so the choices are limited - machines less than these I am not interested in - the more expensive ones would take forever to reach with credits alone. 

My finance director is not in the mood to approve any more coffee related purchases in the near future so the credit is my working capital.

The Oscar, according to Tex and some others has temp stability issues - this is what made me consider the Silvano.  The Silvano has an adjustable PID, external access pressure adjustment and pressure gauge,  0.7 liter (~21 fl oz) boiler, and thermoblock steam that operates independently with it's own pump and control.

What would you buy if you were able to pick one of these?

IMO - a new Oscar would resell for about the same percentage of new that a Silvano would, or roughly 75%. But, which would actually sell? The Oscar is a known commodity and the demand for used machines is pretty consistent, but who's going to buy a used Silvano?

If the Oscar is available at 80% of new ($850/$1050), and you resold it for only 75% of new or $780, you're potentially losing ~$70. If you bought the Silvano at 95% of new ($950/$995) and resold it at 75% or $750, you're potentially losing $200. I'd say the risk is much greater with the Silvano than with the Oscar.

[EricBNC]

Also I see now that the MiniNova is the same machine as the Lyrca and Astoria Compact - that might be worth rolling the dice for - If I got to $950 for the Silvano I could write a check for $250 more and have this machine instead - my broken Oscar could go to a good home looking for a parts machine to help offset the $250.  The Wega has an E-61 group head but not the whole E-61 lever control and pre-infusion chamber. Is this a big or little compromise?

I wonder too if the Oscar would make more sense as a home use machine?  I would already have a source of parts for the Oscar too - something worth considering.

I get it now - sort of a mis-communication - I typed "If I got to $950 for the Silvano" but what I meant (and should have typed) is if I already can pile together $950 worth of credits, I could either pay the $250 out of pocket or keep collecting credits till I had $1200 of them and go for the Wega instead of getting the Oscar or the Silvano.

I have $600 in credits and I am adding more at a rate around $150 per month by blogging and being active over on ROASTe.  In less than 2 months I am at the Oscar.  In Two months and a couple blogs I am at the Silvano.  4 or 5 months from now my balance would allow me to own the Wega MiniNova.  This time table assumes I am able to keep up the pace, and that the machines remain available at these prices that far in the future.  The Oscar looks like almost a sure thing right now - the further out in time the less certain I can be. 

I hope this extra info helps explain my situation better - trading words for hardware here, one expressive adjective at a time...

[Tex]

Also I see now that the MiniNova is the same machine as the Lyrca and Astoria Compact - that might be worth rolling the dice for - If I got to $950 for the Silvano I could write a check for $250 more and have this machine instead - my broken Oscar could go to a good home looking for a parts machine to help offset the $250.  The Wega has an E-61 group head but not the whole E-61 lever control and pre-infusion chamber. Is this a big or little compromise?

I wonder too if the Oscar would make more sense as a home use machine?  I would already have a source of parts for the Oscar too - something worth considering.

I get it now - sort of a mis-communication - I typed "If I got to $950 for the Silvano" but what I meant (and should have typed) is if I already can pile together $950 worth of credits, I could either pay the $250 out of pocket or keep collecting credits till I had $1200 of them and go for the Wega instead of getting the Oscar or the Silvano.

I have $600 in credits and I am adding more at a rate around $150 per month by blogging and being active over on ROASTe.  In less than 2 months I am at the Oscar.  In Two months and a couple blogs I am at the Silvano.  4 or 5 months from now my balance would allow me to own the Wega MiniNova.  This time table assumes I am able to keep up the pace, and that the machines remain available at these prices that far in the future.  The Oscar looks like almost a sure thing right now - the further out in time the less certain I can be. 

I hope this extra info helps explain my situation better - trading words for hardware here, one expressive adjective at a time...

Got it! So the Oscar looks like the better value - if you accept my estimate of 75% resale value for either machine; plus the ready market for an Oscar.

Good luck!