NS Oscar, QM Silvano or Other - Which would you get?

[Warrior372]

Sorry I am late on this one. Of the options proposed, I would without question go with a Semi-Automatic Wega Mininova EPU with a Rotary pump. You can call Wegas National Director of Sales directly and haggle with him on the price too! The Wega Mininova with Rotary pump would allow you to make shots that would be far superior to what the other machines could produce. Plus, if you ever have a problem you just call Wega directly since you purchased it through them. RoastE has great deals on Wega equipment too. They have 10-15% coupons roaming around as well. If you email them, you should be able to get a really good price on that machine and then troll Home-Barista for a coupon code. It looks like ROASTE10 might be their current 10% off coupon code.

A Wega Mininova with Rotary pump is in a different league than the other machines you mentioned. It would be more comparable to a Quickmill Vetrano Rotary which retails for $1,895. There is even an option to get the Wega equipped to be plumbed in. You could easily purchase the equipment to PID it yourself too. Tex has all of the schematics you would need to do the job.

That is the machine I would go with hands down!

[Tex]

Sorry I am late on this one. Of the options proposed, I would without question go with a Semi-Automatic Wega Mininova EPU with a Rotary pump. You can call Wegas National Director of Sales directly and haggle with him on the price too! The Wega Mininova with Rotary pump would allow you to make shots that would be far superior to what the other machines could produce. Plus, if you ever have a problem you just call Wega directly since you purchased it through them. RoastE has great deals on Wega equipment too. They have 10-15% coupons roaming around as well. If you email them, you should be able to get a really good price on that machine and then troll Home-Barista for a coupon code. It looks like ROASTE10 might be their current 10% off coupon code.

A Wega Mininova with Rotary pump is in a different league than the other machines you mentioned. It would be more comparable to a Quickmill Vetrano Rotary which retails for $1,895. There is even an option to get the Wega equipped to be plumbed in. You could easily purchase the equipment to PID it yourself too. Tex has all of the schematics you would need to do the job.

That is the machine I would go with hands down!

Does the rotary pimp make it better than the same machine with a vibe pump?

[Warrior372]

From a long term maintenance point of view, I would say that Rotary pumps do make a difference. They are higher quality pieces of machinery, are less likely to have as many problems long term and are more reliable in general (hence all commercial machines use them). I have a 'buy it once' mentality when it comes to purchasing things. I would much rather pay more for a higher quality item one time and decrease the likely-hood that I ever have to mess with it again. Other than that, rotary pumps are quieter, which some would see as more of an advantage than others.

[Tex]

From a long term maintenance point of view, I would say that Rotary pumps do make a difference. They are higher quality pieces of machinery, are less likely to have as many problems long term and are more reliable in general (hence all commercial machines use them). Other than that, rotary pumps are quieter, which some would see as more of an advantage than others.

But (there's always a but right?), a vibe pump provides pressure ramping at the beginning and end of a shot - the latest fad for $10,000 commercial machines. A rotary pump is instant on, instant off.

I like the rotary pumps for their RELATIVE quietness, but they don't provide a performance boost compared to the vibe pump; since in a good machine, group pressure will be controlled by an adjustable OPV.

And as for cost, a rotary pump is cheaper in the long run, since they can be rebuilt for ~$50. Vibe pumps are only replaceable - and cost $50 to $??.

[Warrior372]

You can setup a Rotary pump with an integrated pressure limiter, which makes for much less fiddling than an OPV.

[Tex]

You can setup a Rotary pump with an integrated pressure limiter, which makes for much less fiddling than an OPV.

Don't care what it's called, a bypass valve in a rotary pump is just another way to say OPV.

[Warrior372]

Rotary pump limiter is easier to adjust in a lot of peoples opinions. I have had 4 machines with Vibe pumps and 1 with a Rotary. I have sold all of the ones that utilize vibe pumps and continue to own the rotary machine for a reason. I have never had a problem with the rotary in 2 years of owning it and have replaced 3 vibe pumps. To me they are not worth the noise or hassle.

What $10,000+ dollar commercial machine has a vibe pump? None do. I assume you are referring to pressure profiling. The only thing they have proven with pressure profiling is a spring loaded lever machine pressure curve results in a superior extraction. Many in the espresso machine manufacturing industry feel it is a waste of time, including Mark Barnett of Synesso. He openly manufacturers the Hydra because of market demand. Outside of that, nothing has been 'proven' better through pressure profiling. I see no reason why anyone should invest $15k plus on a pump machine to try and replicate the pressure curve of a much cheaper and easier to maintain lever. This is one reason that the machines i use on a daily basis do not have a pump . . . . superior results, fewer parts and less hassle.

Also, how does a vibe pump provide ramping at the end of a shot? I would think it goes from 9 bar to 0 and being shut off in a straight vertical line. The only machine you would get a true downward ramp in pressure curve is a lever or pressure profiling rotary.

[EricBNC]

Sorry I am late on this one. Of the options proposed, I would without question go with a Semi-Automatic Wega Mininova EPU with a Rotary pump. ...That is the machine I would go with hands down!

Um, thanks?

That one would be nice but the ones shown on ROASTe are vibe pump and over $300 more expensive than the machine I selected.  The Silvano and the Oscar are the only ones that would be free based on the ebeans I had accrued.  There were no more beans immediately available either - I would have needed 60 blogs to hit the Wega - so probably 3 - 4 months at best.  I decided to make a move before the program or product choices changed.  A Silvano on the counter is worth more to me than a credit floating out in the internet's.

Besides, it looks nice next to the K30.

[mp]

So how are the shots it pulls?

 

[EricBNC]

I only had three - one sinker Americano, one decent but fast shot, and one that was really good.  I will break out my other bag of Dolce from the freezer tomorrow when I get home unless my Black Tie sample from Deep Cello shows up - either way it should be fun.

This machine is as big as I would ever want one to be.  It is a heavy unit that heats up fast, is temp stable, and pulls show 9 bar on the dial. A larger commercial type machine might be the cat's meow for a lot of espresso lovers but for my use this machine fits like a glove.  It's like a Gaggia with a bigger boiler, a PID, an upgraded steam wand, externally adjustable OPV, and a pressure gauge.  By the time I added all of that (minus the larger boiler) to my Gaggia Coffee I would have some serious money tied up in the unit.  Same with buying a replacement boiler for the Nuova Simonelli Oscar.

Thanks to ROASTe letting me trade my words and thoughts as barter, I am able to have something a lot nicer than I could afford otherwise right now. Is there better? Most likely, but not better for me - $0.00 is the only number that fits the current budget.

[Warrior372]

I have a used Gaggia right now and I like it.  My worry is a bit of a timing problem instead of a cost problem.  If I had $600 in my pocket then saving $100 more is easy math.  My fear is what if this credit program changes in a month, or these type of machines are no longer available in 3 - 4 months (want a good deal on a Super-Auto new in the box just in time for Christmas?) then I am just out of luck - not out of pocket but a missed opportunity just the same.  My fear is based in reality too - at least in my opinion.  Used to be you could buy that monster 68mm conical Wega/CompaK on ROASTe. I do not see it being offered any longer.  The line up changes fast with big ticket items so I would hate to wait and miss out.

The reason you do not see Wega 6.8s in stock on roastE is because Wega American has been waiting for a shipment of these rebadged Compaks for over 1.5 months. I have been in communicaiton with Tom Rolleri, Wegas National Sales Director, since he is going to swap mine out for a new one (It had some damage to the burr threads when I received it). He will sellyou one for $850 shipped.

[EricBNC]

I don't want to buy one for $850.  I like my K30 well enough. If it fails I would consider that grinder though provided i have the funds.  Still doesn't take any luster away from the Silvano - the same issues that steered me away from the Oscar would have steered me away from the Wega.  After posting the thread I talked with Chris about what I wanted from a machine. The Silvano meets my needs.