Looking to replace my Livia 90 with a new Espresso Machine

[Chris]

I like my Pasquini Livia 90, and in fact it is my second one.  In between, I actually had a La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 VII (which was the most problematic machine ever, and I hated the 53mm PF).  Chris Coffee service was great, however bad that machine was.  And I wont be buying another of that brand.

Anyhow, there are two things I dont like about the Livia: 1. Loud vibe pump and 2. Microfoam is not that easy to obtain (even with different steam tips).  I looked at replacing the vibe pump with a rotary pump, but all the online solutions look like hacks, and I really don't want that.

So now I am back into the market for a new machine around $3000 or less.  I think a Double Boiler with Temp Control and rotary pump is a great start for feature requirements.  Plumb-in would be nice, but not necessary.  So now I am looking at something like the Izzo Alex Duetto III.  The only thing I am not sure about is the Lever action and E61.  Never had either before.  Any thoughts on this type of setup?  I don't care about having volumetric or timed shots, as the Livia is Semi-Automatic anyway.

I really wanted a Synesso or GS3, but out of my price range right now.  I have also heard good things about Salvatore, but I think the ones below $3000 are HX.

Any other machines I might want to look at?  Any thoughts on the Duetto 3?

Reliability, and availability of parts are probably first on my list of priorities, and features are secondary.

Thanks,

Chris

[EricBNC]

I think Vebiemme makes a double boiler E61 with PID as well - never used anything like it though so I can only point you in it's direction to look closer for another model meeting your spec requirements.

[Tex]

A double boiler is nice, but not a necessity if you can get a good HX. Either will suit your needs, and whether you get a lever group or one with a 3-way is more a matter of esthetics than functionality. I don't like futzing with levers myself, but that's just my K.I.S.S. attitude showing.

The one thing you mention that rings true is the importance of support. I personally wouldn't buy a machine I couldn't repair myself, but for most folks it's as important as design and function.

[mp]

I think Vebiemme makes a double boiler E61 with PID as well - never used anything like it though so I can only point you in it's direction to look closer for another model meeting your spec requirements.

This one would be my preference for a double boiler system.

I heard the Alex is very nice also.

 

[milowebailey]

I suggest a good lever!  Ask John F, jspain and Staylor how they like their Ponte Vecchio Lusso levers...and well within your price range... you could even spring for a Compak grinder......  or buy a commercial Astoria lever

I think a lever is simpler than a pump and they make a better shot.  Temperature is the only adjustment of the machine.  With boilers and pumps there is much more to fiddle with.

I've been in leverland for a year and plan to stay here.... but to each his own!  I'm interested in seeing what you decide on getting.

[Tex]

For clarification, I was talking about the E61 lever groups, not lever machines like the Lusso. The latter are simpler mechanically than pump machines, but I wouldn't concede that their ease of use surpasses a pump machine, or that the end product is superior from one machine type or another. It really depends on users ability more than machine type.

Of key importance is temp stability of the group. Some machines use passive heating, thermosyphons or fully saturated groups, and some top end machines have electric group heating. Absent any of these, you'll have a group hanging out in the elements cooling down between shots, and that is undesirable.

It's simple to ask for opinions, but watch out for fanboys with little knowledge of what works and what doesn't. You've first hand knowledge already of where that leads!

[John F]

Just one opinion on the PVL.

I don't think there is a machine under the $3k line I'd want more. The machines I would like more are double that.

But people even considering levers should read the lever smackdown thread at HB as a minimum.

I also think all the ~$3k E-61 machines are pretty sweet and I'm sure I'd enjoy them a lot but I would not trade my PVL for one. Heck Staylor traded his Brutus II for a PVL...

Just an opinion, but to answer the question I think the machines mentioned are all good. I like the Salvatore...just browse the website and it's hard not to want one.

[Chris]

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies.

For me, the PVL is not the direction I want to go right now.  Though I walked over Ponte Vecchio Bridge in Florence just last week.

Anyhow, I am probably going with the Izzo Alex Duetto 3, and leaning toward Clive Coffee, since they offer a lot of perks over Chris Coffee (2 Year Warranty, $75 Gift Cert, free barista kit, Left Coast Shipping).

Anyone have any experience with Clive Coffee?

Thanks,

Chris

[century]

I personally own a Rocket Giotto.
I love it and cant say anything bad about it (actually the drip tray could extend out another inch  )
They are pricey though and probably not in the "Value for Money" category, although it is a handsome machine.

Been reading up on the Quick Mill (Q67) double boiler.
So far reviews have been decent and its definitely "value for money". At roughly $1900 for a DB.
Some issues have been the boiler sizes and cheap finishing.

The Rocket DB is most likely my next machine. When something works well for me, I tend to be loyal to the brand.

[Tex]

I personally own a Rocket Giotto.
I love it and cant say anything bad about it (actually the drip tray could extend out another inch  )
They are pricey though and probably not in the "Value for Money" category, although it is a handsome machine.

Been reading up on the Quick Mill (Q67) double boiler.
So far reviews have been decent and its definitely "value for money". At roughly $1900 for a DB.
Some issues have been the boiler sizes and cheap finishing.

The Rocket DB is most likely my next machine. When something works well for me, I tend to be loyal to the brand.

Who did you buy your Giotto from?

[Chris]

I personally own a Rocket Giotto.
I love it and cant say anything bad about it (actually the drip tray could extend out another inch  )
They are pricey though and probably not in the "Value for Money" category, although it is a handsome machine.

Been reading up on the Quick Mill (Q67) double boiler.
So far reviews have been decent and its definitely "value for money". At roughly $1900 for a DB.
Some issues have been the boiler sizes and cheap finishing.

The Rocket DB is most likely my next machine. When something works well for me, I tend to be loyal to the brand.

Thanks for adding that to the list :-)

Looks like there are 3 that look pretty good:

1. Duetto 3
2. Rocket 58
3. Vibemme Double Domobar

I am not going to research these to death.  I am going to compare, decide, and buy.  This week.

The Duetto 3 looks pretty good, mainly because of the 2 year warranty from Clive.

[Tex]

I suggested to a friend that he look at the QM67 double boiler machine. Dual function PID, and an offset temp setting so you're adjusting the actual brew temp (no mental gymnastics for middle aged brain cell is a good thing). If only it was direct plumbed (simple enough to convert) and didn't have a vibe pump (in fairness they can be pretty much silenced with minimum effort)?

[century]

I personally own a Rocket Giotto.
I love it and cant say anything bad about it (actually the drip tray could extend out another inch  )
They are pricey though and probably not in the "Value for Money" category, although it is a handsome machine.

Been reading up on the Quick Mill (Q67) double boiler.
So far reviews have been decent and its definitely "value for money". At roughly $1900 for a DB.
Some issues have been the boiler sizes and cheap finishing.

The Rocket DB is most likely my next machine. When something works well for me, I tend to be loyal to the brand.

Who did you buy your Giotto from?

I Drink Coffee

Local to me.

[Chris]

I am getting the Duetto 3 from Clive Coffee, after talking through all the other offerings.

Getting 2 year warranty, $150 off, and a starter kit.

Thanks for all the suggestions on other models.

[mp]

Let us know how you like it.

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