Which espresso machine?

[Intrepid510]

Keep it for pour overs, its a good grinder for that. :-)

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[BozemanEric]

Not to be an ass, but why espresso?

Peter has a very valid question. I have well over two grand invested into espresso in our house. We probably pull shots once every two months.  To answer the questions of the naysayers, yes, I can pull a good shot. Due to the infrequency of us pulling shots, it does usually takes two or three to get it dialed in again.

I simply like coffee better. If I do pull a shot, it is often after I come home for lunch, and only if I remember to turn the machine on. Espresso is not a relaxing hobby to learn, especially if you do not have local guidance.  If you are any bit of a perfectionist, like myself, hundreds of shots will be poured down the sink and many vulgarities repeated in the process.

There is a ton of coffee gear you can fill your small NYC apartment with for the price of one a good espresso set up.

[MMW]

Not to be an ass, but why espresso?

Peter has a very valid question. I have well over two grand invested into espresso in our house. We probably pull shots once every two months.  To answer the questions of the naysayers, yes, I can pull a good shot. Due to the infrequency of us pulling shots, it does usually takes two or three to get it dialed in again.

I simply like coffee better. If I do pull a shot, it is often after I come home for lunch, and only if I remember to turn the machine on. Espresso is not a relaxing hobby to learn, especially if you do not have local guidance.  If you are any bit of a perfectionist, like myself, hundreds of shots will be poured down the sink and many vulgarities repeated in the process.

There is a ton of coffee gear you can fill your small NYC apartment with for the price of one a good espresso set up.

^Yeah, that.

I've given up on espresso-- at least until after the kids are out of the house.  It's not that I dislike espresso; it's just that I don't have the time to dedicate to it right now.

[John F]

Not to be an ass, but why espresso?

Peter has a very valid question. I have well over two grand invested into espresso in our house. We probably pull shots once every two months.  To answer the questions of the naysayers, yes, I can pull a good shot. Due to the infrequency of us pulling shots, it does usually takes two or three to get it dialed in again.

I simply like coffee better. If I do pull a shot, it is often after I come home for lunch, and only if I remember to turn the machine on. Espresso is not a relaxing hobby to learn, especially if you do not have local guidance.  If you are any bit of a perfectionist, like myself, hundreds of shots will be poured down the sink and many vulgarities repeated in the process.

There is a ton of coffee gear you can fill your small NYC apartment with for the price of one a good espresso set up.

Agree 97%.

Knowing myself I'd have never been happy without chasing down good pump driven shots then lever shots. I just had to know and had to do it. I'm very happy with my path there and its overall fit in my coffee journey.

I'd also not be happy without the ability to pull great shots whenever I want to.

However nothing will ever replace my love of a big mug of coffee.

I could have been content and saved a couple grand or so if I wasn't me. 

[peter]

I've seen lots of people, myself included, that went after espresso with the simplistic logic that it was a progression in the coffee-extraction journey.

I like SO shots, but like Eric, I like coffee more.  Espresso drinks have a great entertainment factor.  And it's great when I know I'll want a little pick-me-up after a nap without having to brew and drink an 8oz. cup.

But pursuing espresso (by that I mean great espresso) is not a decision to be made lightly.

[John F]

But pursuing espresso (by that I mean great espresso) is not a decision to be made lightly.

Exactly.

And this is the argument I had with Tex 50 times..where is that guy by the way? I completely hate the idea of learning to make average (actually bad but accepted as "good enough") espresso. It is wrong on so many levels.

[John F]

I think the espresso goal should be that 90% of the shots you pull are better than 95+% of any cafe you can find. And this standard slot becomes your base line decent shot.

You won't be super excited about it but your average is actually well well above THE average.

7% will be sink shots...It's just inevitable.

3% or possibly less will be stellar shots. I think that if you think 40% of your shots are God shots chances are above 90% you don't know a God shot from shinola.

1-3 out of 100.....that's where you have to close your eyes and shake your head. I think that's realistic.

[peter]

I can take any noob, without any past experience, and in less than an hour I can teach him how to make good espresso with only a Bunn 1ES and a MDF grinder.

Not really, but it seems like JohnF needed to hear that.   

[John F]

Good is terrible. 

[peter]

That was the best Tex impression I could come up with.  I guess you'll only argue with the real Tex.   

[John F]

You said Bunn instead of modded Gaggia so I could tell you were trying to trick me.

[Intrepid510]

Well most people just want to learn to make a good latte not drink espresso. So really its not espresso that we should be focusing on but rather how to steam micro foam because sixish ounces of milk hides the sin of poorly prepped espresso.

And also shouldnt we focus on machines that heat up in ten minutes or less? For the people at HB that want put down more than the value of my first three cars combined on a machine great, but for the rest of us a nice small home machine works quite well with the top being imho a breville dual boiler beyond that its overkill. Imho.

[John F]

Kinda...

Good milk does improve drinks but it's a matter of scale. For starters a latte for me has at most 3oz of milk. The 6oz version can do more masking and the 16oz bellgrande can hide some dryer lint.

I'd say that the espresso always matters. It's the base of the drink. If it's better the drink has that much more potential.

In defense of milk over espresso I'm willing to bet I impressed more people with milk drinks using 10oz milk, chocolate, whipped cream, and absolutely horrible "espresso" off my stream toy than I ever could with a killer 4oz small milk latte. So I understand the point.

The problem is just that... You can indeed make milk drinks that are tasty with pretty disgusting espresso. You just have to overwhelm it with tons of milk, sugar, chocolate, caramel, etc..etc..

That goal only requires a $50-$100 machine.

Spending any more leads one to curiosity...that curiosity fuels the urge to go down the path, the path contains deep rabbit holes. Quality is invariably a question around some corner and then you are caught in the gravitational pull if your personality is the type to look around the bend.

[BoldJava]

...
Spending any more leads one to curiosity...that curiosity fuels the urge to go down the path, the path contains deep rabbit holes. Quality is invariably a question around some corner...

Well said.

[staylor]

An Aeropress, some microwaved skim milk and a fork to whip it up into microfoam.

That should pretty much do it.

Or not.

If the coffee is the focus, the machine has to have a chance at pulling awesome shots, otherwise you are knowingly buying mediocrity. If the milk is the focus the machine has to be able to create super-tight microfoam, otherwise you are knowingly buying mediocrity. If the focus is on espresso/milk drinks the machine has to be able to do both really well.

The biggest problem I see is that you will need a better grinder than the Breville, and a new grinder might be a $500 (or more) touch which doesn't leave much room to play with on a budget of $1000 - 1500, when you also have to buy the associated accessories of espresso.

Unless there is a compelling reason to get involved with home espresso - which invariably leads down a deeper rabbit hole if you don't make sound decisions at the front end - it might be worthwhile to just grab an awesome grinder and stick to home pourovers. Sell the Breville and buy more great greens.