Sonofresco / Q&A / Tip & Tricks

[Joe]

I know some of the error codes are related to temperatures not meeting or overshooting temps and those are almost always Thermocouple or cleaning related. An easy diagnosis is if you select preset 2 on the non adr and it roasts the beans dark then you have a bad thermocouple you are missing some areas in your cleaning. The other codes I ran into were a bad ignition unit I think it was e3 and then when my gas supply would run out e2, e4 etc.., I now have it run through my natural gas line and I don't get the other codes. If you call Sonofresco the friendly staff will walk you through a complete diagnosis.

[Joe]

For the record, I clean my roaster screens ( I have 2) after each roast and clean everything that could cause back-pressure. I've not used Citric Acid although I have 20-30 pounds of it in our warehouse since we use it to de-scale brewer tanks. As far as my roaster parts, I use straight Simple Green which you probably all know was developed originally for cleaning coffee roasters. This is another thing I never knew until I started roasting. The Behmor instruction manual states the fact on Simple Green and if you go to their site Simplegreen.com it will state that as well. If the Citric Acid is readily available in your area and it works well, great. I may give it a try but for me to get Citric Acid out here, I have to order it in and shipping costs more than the pales of citric acid.

I wouldn't use simple green FYI that is some super good stuff but the smell never goes away. I have been forbidden on using it in our vehicles because I do love how well it works, but the sell makes my wife nauseous. It uses citric acid though iirc. You can use cafiza or other coffee dry product which seem to leave less of a smell. Phosphoric acid is common as well and comes in liquid form and sometimes is labeled under things like "coffee break" Costco might carry it or big save.

[808Chaney]

Good to know, sorry you've had bad experiences. For me, never a problem getting rid of the smell. Any time I've had residual smell its been because I have not cleaned it good enough and the smell is still stuck in the oils that have yet to be removed from my screen and chaff collector. Other than that, no problems. I'd use the citric acid if it wasn't so expensive for us to get. Being that for some silly reason, it's classified as a Hazardous material it ends up costing more to ship than to buy.

[808Chaney]

Hey to all of you fellow sono guys and gals here.  I have just purchased a new 1# sono.  Is it normal to reach 2nd crack on every preset including 2 or 3.  I have roasted several origins from Central and South America.  On preset 4 I had pretty much a french roast on all origins.  Dialed it down to preset 3 and still went well into 2nd crack, dialed it down to 2 and still reaching 2nd crack around 9:00 into all roasts.  Is this normal?  If not should I adjust gas valve?  Any advice would be appreciated.

I recently spoke to Robert Penrose at Sonofresco about this very thing. I could hit 2C on every number. Once I installed the his explanation was backed up by what I saw on the ADR. They all follow the same profile. The only difference on the numbers is EOR temps. He said they will all bring you coffee into 2C. So this is why I bought the ADR because I would also see a bunch of letters I could scroll through if I only turned on the power button and pushed the up arrow (?) Once I installed, I saw even all of the default profiles were the same. A little disappointing after spending $750.00. IMO, they coulda thrown in a couple different profiles but reading the instructions are a bit sketchy. If you ever figure out any good curves to stretch out the roast a little please share. There are many variables you have to make sure you meet for the profile to work and not thrown an E4 code at you. If your rate of rise is too low it will shut down and vice versa.

[Joe]

Hey to all of you fellow sono guys and gals here.  I have just purchased a new 1# sono.  Is it normal to reach 2nd crack on every preset including 2 or 3.  I have roasted several origins from Central and South America.  On preset 4 I had pretty much a french roast on all origins.  Dialed it down to preset 3 and still went well into 2nd crack, dialed it down to 2 and still reaching 2nd crack around 9:00 into all roasts.  Is this normal?  If not should I adjust gas valve?  Any advice would be appreciated.

I recently spoke to Robert Penrose at Sonofresco about this very thing. I could hit 2C on every number. Once I installed the his explanation was backed up by what I saw on the ADR. They all follow the same profile. The only difference on the numbers is EOR temps. He said they will all bring you coffee into 2C. So this is why I bought the ADR because I would also see a bunch of letters I could scroll through if I only turned on the power button and pushed the up arrow (?) Once I installed, I saw even all of the default profiles were the same. A little disappointing after spending $750.00. IMO, they coulda thrown in a couple different profiles but reading the instructions are a bit sketchy. If you ever figure out any good curves to stretch out the roast a little please share. There are many variables you have to make sure you meet for the profile to work and not thrown an E4 code at you. If your rate of rise is too low it will shut down and vice versa.

Interesting, glad I didn't invest in the ADR. the stock controller does exactly what i want, so no plans for future upgrade from me. I usually think afterthought engineering is just that. How does the ROR affect the 2c situation? That doesn't make sense to me as that is definitely a product of finish temp.

BTW I tried your simple green to clean the roaster thing and it doesn't work. Maybe if you soaked all the non electronic parts in it over night, but using a product like phosphoric acid or citric acid based cleaner will work in an overnight soak situation just as well for sure. I recommend Cafiza for this and good ole water and brillo pad works for most everything but the glass chamber....A straight edge razor works wonders for that. Also your screens need a minimum of a few hour soak in a coffee cleaning product and wire brush to get it clean of airflow robbing residue. All parts from the chamber up require the once a month cleaning depending on how much you roast.

[808Chaney]

ROR meaning you must increase temp a minimum of 2.5deg C per minute and a max of 25c per minute. My 1st real roaster was a Behmor and they suggested the Simple Green with a dry burn after cleaning. Well let's say after my 1st roast which resulted in a chaff ignition I used a great deal of simple green and elbow grease and low n behold there were only a few signs of fired. I've net attempted to post pics here but when I'm finished roasting today, I will take the part that I never clean my 24 inch exhaust stack. I will clean a small portion with Simple Green and figure out how to post it. Use what works best for you. I have no doubt what you use works but buying anything with the word acid on it pretty much throws it into the hazardous material category which enables the company selling the product to justify the ridiculous price they charge because of the shipping rates of "hazmat"  Like I said, I buy 10 pound buckets of Citric Acid for our Brewer tanks and could use it but the Simple Green is cheaper and works fast for me. Maybe our cleaning habits are different? I dunno. I do know I'm looking for roasting knowledge so if I've come off as a know it all, I've been mis-read. I guarantee you I can out sell you when it comes to getting new accounts for our customer but when it comes to roasting, each roast is still experimental for me.

[Joe]

Ok well if it works then you shouldn't be having problems? It sounds like you have a problem but that you don't want to consider the way you are cleaning part of the problem? Citric acid or phosphoric acid whatever the markup cost has got to be cheaper than a new thermocouple, or screen fire. If you are buying it for the Brewers anyways you should just use that..

The behmor is very much a home roaster and if you are considering commercial to be a "real" roaster than the Sonofresco is a much different animal than a behmor.

[808Chaney]

 You're missing the point. My problem is that with a dirty rooster or thermocouple. It is with my roasting profiles. Sorry to have bothered you, you will not hear from me anymore.

[Joe]

You're missing the point. My problem is that with a dirty rooster or thermocouple. It is with my roasting profiles. Sorry to have bothered you, you will not hear from me anymore.

Why don't we have to hear from you anymore? Seems like a dramatic response? Just trying to figure this out with you, you didn't bother me.

Ok so your problem is with profiles. Got it. I don't think i missed that point, your point just doesn't make much sense the way you are explaining it. So you are just going to leave it at that? -"I can't figure out the ADR profile, I got ripped off, etc... this doesn't do what it's supposed to?"

I think you are missing my point, it might not be working because your machine is dirty. You mentioned that your cleaning schedule involves simple green, I am explaining that it might not be enough to clean the machine so that it operates properly. If it's not clean first then the rest of your issues will never work. Here are some photos of my machine in-between cleanings but with a new thermocouple. If your machine, screen or the area's I photographed look dirtier than those then you probably have some issues related to your cleaning.- the last photo of the polished clean area I clean every day this is the most important part along with the screen.

[808Chaney]

The way I explained it was explained directly from the Sonofresco manual. When programming profiles you must have a temp Rate of Rise of not less than 2.5degrees C per minute and not more than 25 degrees C per minute. I believe the way I attempted to stretch the roast I may have gone outside these parameters. This in turn I believe caused the E4 code.
Prior to roasting, (Which sometimes is only once or twice a week.) I make sure my roaster is CLEAN. All areas you photographed are in fact clean with the only difference is my Thermocouple is Stainless. Mine is new so it came equipped with a stainless one. Yours must be old enough to be equipped with an overly fragile ceramic type? Your comment on afterthought engineering tells me you have no intentions of upgrading to a stainless thermocouple. You may go through less TC's if you upgrade next time you have one fail but I'm a noob so what do I know? Now, the dirtiest part of my machine is the 24 inch chimney that points straight up with a wind blocker to prevent wind from being blown down into the TC which would sure cause an E code.
I generally steer away from forums because often times theres that 1 guy that his favorite phrase is "Use the search"  or here we go again, how many times has this been asked and answered? So, I may or may not lurk the board, I may try and buy some coffee but the response I got regarding my friends pure Kona kinda put a bad taste in my mouth. I sure wish there wasn't an ocean between us. I would love to clean my roaster and then you try to get it cleaner. In fact, I guess I will try just for shits n giggles a screen clean using Citric Acid.

[Joe]

No I just have the ceramic ones on hand and I would love a stainless one as the thermocouple is the most broken piece on this machine. That isn't afterthough engineering they didn't put two thermocouples on it, they just upgraded a common failing part. Adr and the sample roaster tri wing adapter would be examples of after thought engineering. it's good to hear that you are as clean as mine because your one photo of simple green cleaning something on a towel showed a coffee oil mess on something below it. It's often hard to tell what someone's definition of clean is. I have seen people have fuzzy and oily chaff collector and thermocouple plenums but they swear their screen is clean.. And they get error codes. So that is why I took photos of my machine so you can see what I am defining as clean. Hopefully someone can help you with the adr controller, I don't use it so I can't help you there. I would say that I used to have a flexible chimney on mine and I removed it, the air rushing past the thermocouple has no way of the cold air what have you changing direction and effecting your temps negatively however I have heard a small chimney works well, I plan to try it to see if there is any truth to that rumor..

[808Chaney]

No the rag dI dipped in Simple Green and simplymade 12 pass across the oil to show how easy it works. That was literally on pass. My screens, I toss in a small upside down frisbee (wife didn't like me using a salad plate) filled partially with Simple Green. After a day of roasting, they get an overnite bath and any oil rinse away by morning. I added the short piece of chimney. ( it's just a dryer vent that set me back $5-6 at Home Depot) If you go that route, its best to remove the flap as it will fail to open causing too much back pressure. I tried without and because I live on a hillside there is a lot of updraft and I've had gusts of wind blow down the top of the roaster and throw an E4. According to tech svc it was due to a quick temp change that the TC sensed. Just to re-iterate, there is no snags of cotton stuck anywhere in my roaster that could act as kindling for a fired.

[Joe]

Ahh you must be referring to the shred of a paper towel in my photo?, it's hard to tell what you are talking about, maybe you are referring to your cotton towel? I'm not sure why you would post a picture of a swipe? Yeah that got removed and a shred of paper towel or a shred of cotton wouldn't cause a fire? There is more cotton strings, jute fibers, what have you, That make it into roasters all the time.

On the chimney, The exhaust pressure would never be overcome in my imagination unless you were roasting in an extreme environment. Your situation makes it sound like it might be necessary. I wouldn't ever think to put a flap vent of any kind as my roaster operates outdoors and a flap seems like a stupid idea on a roaster that functions heavily on airflow. A simple test is to use your hand as an airbrake in the exhaust flow- don't burn yourself but restrict the flow at all and watch how it affect the swirling beans...Even at 6" above the exhaust the beans slow down. What I was considering is a 6" or so connector as a chimney to see if there is any truth to this temp swing elimination. I obviously don't believe it to be a fact.

[808Chaney]

I scratched my head a bit on your paper towel reference. I went back and looked at your pic and finally saw the little triangle of paper towel and I assume you think I was referring to that? Nope...
The picture I posted was just a quick example of how well the simple green works for me. I took a rag and dipped it in S.G. and then ran my finger through a the dirtiest part of my roaster, the $5.00 chimney I likely wont bother cleaning. I'll just replace as needed. The one pass of SG removed the oils with little effort.

I'd like to make a fresh start. I've been super stressed at work due to people who want a paycheck but don't want to do any work to receive it. 
My wife and I run her moms business (her mom is owner by default and is clueless when it comes to do with any and all aspects of the business. So my wife and I carry the stress and"Mom" collects a fat paycheck while we struggle to make ends meet. I'm sorry for coming across with a bad attitude. I'll do my best not to act like a child moving forward.
Please accept my sincerest apologies...

[Joe]

sounds good Chaney, Apologies accepted stress sucks.we are a group with mucho grace.

I would recommend reading through all the new members threads on all of the forums but especially here (new members) . It will help you make friends faster as it describes our culture and expectations of members.