Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: Joe on November 11, 2015, 01:18:41 PM
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So I want a travel grinder. As tempting as all the Hario, Kyocera, ceramic mills, etc... I can't make heads or tails of which is good or not. Zassenhaus seems to meet my needs. What is a good price and where should I get one? eBay...here?
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I used to buy, refurbish and resell vintage grinders on ebay. Pm me details on exactly what you are looking for, I can probably hook you up on the cheap.
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I used to buy, refurbish and resell vintage grinders on ebay. Pm me details on exactly what you are looking for, I can probably hook you up on the cheap.
Yeah Man, that's what I'm talking about.
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I'll throw my .02. I bought the Porlex JP30 (sp?) last year in December, and have used it everyday since then to grind for pour over coffee.
No complaints from me, and I feel the grind is 97% consistent. By that I mean that it does seem to let just a few less fine grinds slip through. No big deal for my pour over though. Replacement ceramic burrs are/were available online from a Canadian company from what I recall.
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They advertise some of their line as espresso grinders - what's up with that?
For example, http://www.zassenhaus.com/index.php?p=2&u=2 (http://www.zassenhaus.com/index.php?p=2&u=2), at the bottom, the black "Santiago" style is "Knie-Espressomühle", while the other apparently identical colors are "Knie-Kaffeemühle". They've been doing this for many years, I've never seen any explanation.
If there's anything to it at all, other than espresso enthusiasts would prefer black stained wood, it would presumably be a more precise fit tolerance between the burrs? The ironic thing is that this model (which I have) is the last one I'd choose for fine grinding, because the thin flat top can flex a little and the burr spindle is tied to it, so the burrs aren't held really firmly together.
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Yeah I looked at the porlex and its many Chinese copies. But I'm not too big on Chinese knock offs for food related items and where quality is really important. Some of these Chinese porlex copies are at $14 which is not a big risk financially but some of the common complaints is that they have plastic pieces around the handle that break. Porlex has some complaints as well and at that price point come in the Zassenhaus which has decades of German quality behind it.
Strictly for pour over use. I don't have any needs for a manual espresso grinder. Solar power makes me want to make espresso with my machines.
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Joe - Just curious, are you looking at one of the vintage looking, wooden box ones for travel...or one of their newer/sleeker models? I know I considered one of those box models (shopping the internet), and I wasn't sure how clean it was going to be to dump grinds out of that rectangle bin into whatever brewing apparatus I am using. I do like the looks of that sleek looking one they have, but someone mentioned capacity was (only) 12 grams.
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Joe - Just curious, are you looking at one of the vintage looking, wooden box ones for travel...or one of their newer/sleeker models? I know I considered one of those box models (shopping the internet), and I wasn't sure how clean it was going to be to dump grinds out of that rectangle bin into whatever brewing apparatus I am using. I do like the looks of that sleek looking one they have, but someone mentioned capacity was (only) 12 grams.
The old ones, for sure. I don't need no; new fangled, plastic, ceramic, aluminum crap. I want real stuff...
All the new hand grinders look weird to me. If I was to design one it would be made a lot like the narrow box style.. wood and strong metal stainless most likely. and real metal burrs.
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Joe, would your perfect grinder know the perfect grind setting when the type of brewing is input?
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Joe, would your perfect grinder know the perfect grind setting when the type of brewing is input?
as long as its on a real dial or something that is actually mechanical, yes. if I am pushing a button...no
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So there seems to be a lot of info on the various forums regarding the antique German mills. However making sense of all the various info seems daunting. FFFolks is sending me a PeDe Grinder and I owe him a super huge favor for that one. But now I can't help but covet some of the various mills on eBay etc.
Is there anyone with knowledge(FFFolks) who would be willing to post benefits and what to watch out for on the various brands? It could be a long thread but if it was somewhat concise that would be great. If it's good enough I'll sticky it for future reference. I know the orphan espresso guy is really knowledgable but I'm not sure if he is a member.
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Look what showed up at my door from the postman and fffolks! All I got to say is GCBC rocks with members like we have. I'm gonna grind some the Elida Natural catuai I already have roasted in this.
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We'll need some super macro photography on the grind results.
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Mazzer super jolly fresh burrs 1st photo, med grind 2nd photo PeDe, slightly finer 3rd photo - I have a macro lens but the iPhone does ok.(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/90dd583c5d031a0b0e9ae826015b2bf4.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/4ca670f8fa5fa1f48a8bc9a5a2d01105.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/4b5997bbce2a13b4f3e62fdf30af8f19.jpg)
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The first photo looks much more consistent, most particles of similar size - seem that way to you?
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The first photo looks much more consistent, most particles of similar size - seem that way to you?
yes for sure, but we are talking about a $1000(new) Mazzer super Jolly vs a $150(est. new price) hand grinder. I have a couple more of these coming, another PeDe and a Lehnartz. I'll compare them all. I think there might be some technique stuff I need to learn as well....It seems like any start stop motion might cause some chunks to happen. have read that the Lehnartz grinders are usually a little better built.
What I am trying to figure out, is that we say the grinder is everything for coffee...start with a grinder etc.. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this over say a baratza entry grinder. Depending on the condition of the grinder it seems that this would work for espresso as well. Maybe slightly more work but if I was into Levers this is the direction i would go. I mean if you are into being one with the process I can't think of a better way than with a hand mill and a lever.
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My interest is kind of academic at this point, but there was a time - before I got that Nuova Simonelli grinder - I was trying to make it work with a hand grinder. And sort of wondering why it can't be done.
With a relatively coarse grind like that, the spread of particle sizes might have something to do with velocity. At hand crank speed, pieces of bean are sifting and sliding around in the mill and getting scraped and mashed, where at much higher powered speed everything I imagine there's a type of cleaving that doesn't occur at slow speeds.
At the espresso grind I was going for, there's also a problem of adjustment - the burrs might not fit together that close, but anyway even if they do, the two burrs aren't really fixed together on the same shaft, and accordingly there seems to be some play. Some designs are worse than others.
Those are a couple of theories, which sure could turn out to have nothing to do with whether a hand grinder delivers good results or not.
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/23/e48a424c7cc1ed9032a54d8a5254cfa0.jpg)
Ok now this is definitely espresso worthy. I picked this one up for $35 on eBay and it looks way worse but grinds beautifully! Very consistent. It is missing the clips that hold the grinds drawer in, but the quality of grind is definitely on par with the mazzer...$35 the thumb print is there to show how it compresses.
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/23/3c52b7c7fc88d92174c1f8ad000e167e.jpg)
Nice and fine. It can go finer if I want
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This isn't the same one that appeared on the previous page, right? Is there a distinguishing feature, so as you could now pick out the ones that work like that, given a picture or whatever?
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This isn't the same one that appeared on the previous page, right? Is there a distinguishing feature, so as you could now pick out the ones that work like that, given a picture or whatever?
If you look about two posts above yours you can see the two mills. The one on the right is the One fffolks sent me, which has the grinds on page 1. The one on the left with the drawer open is the more beat up one that I got for $35 and is the grinds just pictured. The new one is the smaller one with an all metal top.
I'll do a detailed picture show soon. I still have one more en route that was a little more money but the guy at Orphan Espresso raves about them on H-B.
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Don't put too much stock in a certain style or maker having a consistent grind or the ability to grind for espresso from one grinder to the next. They are notoriously inconsistent. These things were built by hand 50-60 years ago and there are too many variables that can effect grind, including usage, wear and build quality. This is why a lot of people give up when trying to find a vintage grinder for espresso. Joe, if I had known you were looking for an espresso grinder, that is not the one I would have sent. As far as makers that you stand a chance of getting an espresso grind: KyM, PeDe, Lehnhartz and sometimes Zassenhaus. Your experience may surely differ.
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Don't put too much stock in a certain style or maker having a consistent grind or the ability to grind for espresso from one grinder to the next. They are notoriously inconsistent. These things were built by hand 50-60 years ago and there are too many variables that can effect grind, including usage, wear and build quality. This is why a lot of people give up when trying to find a vintage grinder for espresso. Joe, if I had known you were looking for an espresso grinder, that is not the one I would have sent. As far as makers that you stand a chance of getting an espresso grind: KyM, PeDe, Lehnhartz and sometimes Zassenhaus. Your experience may surely differ.
Yeah I am strictly using this for camping/power outage and Drip/Pour over/ French press. I am super stoked on the one I got from you. I noticed that the PeDe you gave me the aroma from the grinds is 2x as much. But the small PeDe is able to grind finer. I was doing the comparisons more for others edifications.
This is a whole new world for me though, not willing to sell the Mazzer but maybe the Cunil ;D
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I just love that they are made of wood and steel and continue to work as intended 50 years later.
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Joe, some more fodder for you:
(http://images.shopgoodwill.com/148/11-19-2015/51942071963917on.JPG)(http://images.shopgoodwill.com/148/11-19-2015/67410991963917on.JPG) (http://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Vintage-Wood-Zassenhaus-Original-Coffee-Grinder-25764598.html)
Click on any picture to get to item.
An old Zassenhaus. Auction closes tomorrow 6:30 pm PT. Currently going for $14.
:)
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That looks nice. The new grinder just showed up and the grind quality is awesome. I have to say these things should not be ignored. I am planning on buying a few and giving them to people who say they can't afford a good burr grinder.
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That looks nice. The new grinder just showed up and the grind quality is awesome. I have to say these things should not be ignored. I am planning on buying a few and giving them to people who say they can't afford a good burr grinder.
Now that you have so many of them, which one do you recommend?
:)
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That looks nice. The new grinder just showed up and the grind quality is awesome. I have to say these things should not be ignored. I am planning on buying a few and giving them to people who say they can't afford a good burr grinder.
Now that you have so many of them, which one do you recommend?
:)
All for different reasons. I am just getting to know them though. I really like the Lehnartz I just picked up. It seems consistent over the spectrum of grinds.
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/27/029023459acea53941ce55327d35757e.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/27/abb8dba71368ff01dd72e4bc80eb0ea7.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/27/e051d106f352cd8b515551363ef50743.jpg)
Here is the Lehnartz. This grinder grinds very effortlessly compared to the PeDe. I can get really fine grinds as well. The picture is of its medium grind
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/27/4b818cb614a570df8e179d7aa8ded377.jpg)
Here is a finer grind.
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Thanks Joe.
Will have to look for that one.
:)
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Okay, I am ready to go from Hario to a nice German grinder. Can you suggest where to begin? New or eBay?
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Just one data point but I've had several Hario Skertons and Minis, I found they did coarse grind at least as well if not much better than my late model Zass and a similar clone marked made in W Germany. But the wood box is def sexier.
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Okay, I am ready to go from Hario to a nice German grinder. Can you suggest where to begin? New or eBay?
PM fffolks first before you do anything. A real source of info we have there, he helped me fix one of my grinders that had missing clips. I have been really happy with the PeDe grinders and Lehnartz so far. The Lehnartz grind really easy.
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Look what showed up at my door from the postman and fffolks! All I got to say is GCBC rocks with members like we have. I'm gonna grind some the Elida Natural catuai I already have roasted in this.
You did good, Joe! That Pede is beautiful!
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I did as Joe suggested and sent a PM to fffolks. He gave me some helpful information about the grinders and where to find info about cleaning and refurbishing them also. Now I am eagerly looking for a hand grinder to use on my freshly roasted coffee instead of the blade grinder that I am using now. And as a bonus, the grinders that I am looking at cost much less than the entry level electric grinders. Becoming a member here paid off already!
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I did as Joe suggested and sent a PM to fffolks. He gave me some helpful information about the grinders and where to find info about cleaning and refurbishing them also. Now I am eagerly looking for a hand grinder to use on my freshly roasted coffee instead of the blade grinder that I am using now. And as a bonus, the grinders that I am looking at cost much less than the entry level electric grinders. Becoming a member here paid off already!
Wow, I am stoked.
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I just bought a PeDe #435. Here are some pics from the seller. I will post my experiences with this grinder later.
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/raysettanta/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/2016-01/488EB754-E4D0-4C07-B7AD-4F43FCA75484_zpsvthvmgnz.jpg)
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Another pic
Hmmmm. Can't seem to post another one.
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Good choice Ray, I have had good luck with that model. Enjoy!
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Thanks!
Apparently, I forgot to delete my bid on another grinder that I was looking at. So now I will be receiving a Lehnartz also. I hope this doesn't turn into a collection.
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Thanks!
Apparently, I forgot to delete my bid on another grinder that I was looking at. So now I will be receiving a Lehnartz also. I hope this doesn't turn into a collection.
It's ok they are all different and I am sure you can think of someone who needs a Burr Grinder. I gave out 3-4 of them for Christmas. I am back down to two. ;D
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Thanks!
Apparently, I forgot to delete my bid on another grinder that I was looking at. So now I will be receiving a Lehnartz also. I hope this doesn't turn into a collection.
Trust me, it can become a collection fast ... lol.
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Trust me, it can become a collection fast ... lol.
I am about half-way through the Hand (grinder) Jive thread on HB. Judging by your pics, i would definitely say that you have a collection. ;D
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The PeDe showed up today. Put some beans through it and it took 55 turns for 24 grams for a pour-over grind. I didn't time it but it seemed to be fairly quick. Not strenuous either. I am retired so there is no rush to be out the door in the morning. The grind seemed to be very consistent. I don't have an espresso machine as yet so I don't know if this little grinder can be suitable; however, it seemed to grind very finely when I tried it and the burrs were not touching. I am very pleased with it. Thanks for the help in finding this.
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I believe it was OE that stated that the lack of burr supports on these grinders is only an issue
when grinding for coarse. Wobbly burrs have no problem grinding fine enough to choke pump machines.
Independent of taste...
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Trust me, it can become a collection fast ... lol.
I am about half-way through the Hand (grinder) Jive thread on HB. Judging by your pics, i would definitely say that you have a collection. ;D
LOL, yeah, it sneaked up on me that's for sure.
I'm digging my latest cutie pie.
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That's beautiful! Bakelite?
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Sure is.
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When the dust cleared, I ended up with 3 grinders-- a Lehnartz, a KyM, and a Dienes. The Lehnartz was in the worst shape, so it was picked as the first candidate for resoration. The burrs looked rusty and dirty but after a soaking in Full Circle equipment wash, the metal came out looking like new. Not rusty at all, just caked on coffee grounds. It had a ball bearing so it and the rest of the moving parts got a light coat of McGlaughlin Lubricant. I am going to try the grinder out later this morning.
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When the dust cleared, I ended up with 3 grinders-- a Lehnartz, a KyM, and a Dienes. The Lehnartz was in the worst shape, so it was picked as the first candidate for resoration. The burrs looked rusty and dirty but after a soaking in Full Circle equipment wash, the metal came out looking like new. Not rusty at all, just caked on coffee grounds. It had a ball bearing so it and the rest of the moving parts got a light coat of McGlaughlin Lubricant. I am going to try the grinder out later this morning.
Ray, take some pics of your restoration. I think it might motivate me to get into that.
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I set the grinder as tight as it would go without the burrs touching. Fired up my new espresso machine that UPS delived yesterday. It choked! So I tried it again with a lighter tamp. Nothing came out of the portafilter. Tried a coarser setting, about 20 grams of a Costa Rican bean that yielded a 30 second pour. It was not sour or bitter and was as good an espresso as I have received in my local coffee shop. Then I made a cappuccino with some Kenyan. Not exactly what I would call micro-foam but it sure tasted good. I am well pleased.
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I did not take any after plcs of the burrs but I have a few before pics. When I do the next one, I'll take pics of the whole process.
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Before pics. After the soaking and a little work with a toothbrush, the metal looked brand new. No after pics unfortunately.
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/raysettanta/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/2016-01/1294E20D-1E34-4D06-A0AA-EAD6D5357317_zps88edy7ay.jpg)
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac238/raysettanta/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/2016-01/84F16372-5AC0-4793-A54A-EB26AAD71028_zpsnjl3aleo.jpg)
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Made some more espresso this afternoon. A coffee in a can from Italy showed up in the mail so I had to try it out. Whether it was because of my lack of experience or not, the crema was thin and the taste did not appeal to me. Then I used another batch of the Costa Rica Tarrazu that was roasted to Full City (I think). The roast was stopped when I heard the beginning of second crack. I tried another attempt at a cappuccino. Much better foam this time. This is fun! And quite tasty too.