Vacpots, Q's and A's

[John F]

A tale of grams, scoops, and what happens when you are not paying attention.

Long story short I was telling Staylor I used the provided scoop to measure coffee for the Yama and not a gram scale....he gave me the stink eye.  We did some testing and (surprise) scoops are not very consistent.

Fast forward to my bat cave where I proceeded to put 5 scoops of beans (what the included directions call for) onto my scale about 30-40 times looking for trends. An important note is that all I have done so far is follow the recommended dose of 5 scoops per 5 cup pot. So I started weighing....

50g
55g
55g
54g
60g
58g
55g
55g
60g
55g

I was finding 55g to come up a lot but for whatever reason I figured I would try my highest mark and loaded 60g of coffee for a 5 cup pot..Don't get ahead of the story! 

I brewed a 60g batch and the bloom flew up to the absolute max without overflowing.

Everything else went along just fine and the cup was...................good. It was a Brazil blend that had tons of milk chocolate in the cup. It had a SUPER profound depth to the cup but about half way into the mug I started feeling like I just drank 6 doubles or something. I started thinking it over. Man 60g is a lot of coffee for a 20oz mug. How freaking much caffiene is in this cup?

I came to this thread to refresh my memory of what Chad recommended for grams of coffee and it was.. 37.5   I was 60% over. 

No wonder the bloom was so humongous.

I am not surprised at all about my "leisurely" ready, fire, aim approach but I am surprised at how drinkable that cup was when it was so far out of spec. It should have been an over extracted nightmare but it wasn't. If I had not had 3 doubles and a "regulation" 20oz mug of drip earlier in the day I would have finished it but 1/2 is all I could do before I was getting jumpy. Rare for me but I was feeling it in a big way and only when I discovered I was 60% over did I understand why.

60g it's interesting. 

Anyway, from here forward I think I'll be dialing it down several notches but in case anybody is wondering about superdosing the Yama I found it makes a cup that is much more drinkable than I expected.....dangerously so I might add and my next pot will be 20g lighter. 

John F 

[cfsheridan]

You shouldn't get overextracted coffee by overdosing.  You might get overly strong, but the coffee shouldn't be overextracted in the sense of too much mass taken out of the coffee.

[garybt3]

Dave, Thanks for doing this distro...all day long at work (10 hours) all I could think about was where to score some butane... :icon_scratch:

Lucky for me the PX on Fort Riley was only a block away from my office, so I was able to score a couple of 2.75 oz cans for $2.90 each. Driving home, I realized that I hadn't a clue on how to refill the burner. Long story, short version, I managed to figure it out with the included instruction sheet.

I then filled up my cordless Krups hot water kettle, and proceeded to get busy. Since I had a little experience with a vacpot the switchover was painless. I rinsed off the glassware, and washed the "2-way" filter assembly then did a batch without any grounds. Worked Perfectly. Threw the water down the sink as I could make out little tiny bits of filter material floating around...not "Good Drinks" 

Next batch I used a 60/40 blend of Joe's distro of Harar Bagerish roasted to a City Plus & Dave's Java Pancoer roasted to a Full City on a 5 day rest.... I'm drinking it now... This coffee rocks :headbang:

I used 1/2 cup of grinds or 110 ml and 22 oz of water & a 2 minute steep time, it finished @ 4:05, not bad for an educated guess.

[John F]

You shouldn't get overextracted coffee by overdosing.  You might get overly strong, but the coffee shouldn't be overextracted in the sense of too much mass taken out of the coffee.

You might have me there.....

I could be using the word overextracted wrong just to say "too much". 

I thought it should taste really bad to overdose the coffee as greatly as I did but it was shockingly better than I believe any other prep would have had it. Know what I mean?

 

[garybt3]

You shouldn't get overextracted coffee by overdosing.  You might get overly strong, but the coffee shouldn't be overextracted in the sense of too much mass taken out of the coffee.

You might have me there.....

I could be using the word overextracted wrong just to say "too much". 

I thought it should taste really bad to overdose the coffee as greatly as I did but it was shockingly better than I believe any other prep would have had it. Know what I mean?

 

John, think of overdosing like this;
IF you dose your portafilter (7 grams) on your espresso machine, what happens when you use a double filter (14 grams) or if you are twisted, like me a triple (21 gram) basket? Same volume of water, more coffee, stronger taste, probably not bitter, just stronger. 

IF you are pulling a shot, and your shot goes over 25 seconds and it begins to blond out then you are, over-extracting. Right? And the bitter caffeine compounds are starting to extract...

Hope this makes sense.

[John F]

IF you dose your portafilter (7 grams) on your espresso machine, what happens when you use a double filter (14 grams) or if you are twisted, like me a triple (21 gram) basket? Same volume of water, more coffee, stronger taste, probably not bitter, just stronger. 

Wonder what would happen if we did the equivalent with espresso?

A 17g double adding 60% would be a 27g shot.

I misspoke on overextraction/overdosage but the thing struck me was how drinkable that 60g cup was. I don't guess we can pull a 27g shot but that is the thing I was getting at.

If we could add 60% dosage to pourover, FP, AP, espresso..Ibrik, etc I'm not sure what other preps would wind up tasting like. Very harsh is my guess.

Anyway, the 60g was an accidental experiment. I don't plan on drinking much more of it I'm just saying that it tastes a lot better than I expected it would. It does make me wonder about taking the dosage down to a minimal acceptable level and trying to learn what size window it makes good cups in.

60g     


John F

[Stubbie]

I think you should have a 60g right before your 14'er



-Stubbie

[eprunier]

Thanks Dave, this vacuum pot is my newest most favorite toy   I brewed my third pot this morning and with each pot, I'm tasting flavors in the coffee that I've never picked up on.  The blueberries that came out of Joe's recent Harrar distro just blew me away.  I've also tried a very buttery Carmen Estate decaf Panama and this morning a Fazenda Jacaranda in which I could taste hints of anise, but maybe it was just me.  I can't wait to try the Korate Sidamo.  To free up some valuable stove top real estate, my Moka pot has moved into the cabinet with my AP and french press.    

At first, I was grinding a little too fine and the cloth filter clogged.  I've since adjusted the grind to be almost as coarse as a drip and it seems to work much better.  I plan to hit up an antique store on the way home in hopes of finding a cory rod.  





Thanks again!

Ed

[headchange4u]

So when I am going to get to see some real world pics of the butane table top model in action?

[John F]

I think you should have a 60g right before your 14'er

I would and drink one with another GCBC'er if they all were not too scared to climb with me like tiny baby girls.   


John F

[J.Jirehs Roaster]

I think you should have a 60g right before your 14'er

I would and drink one with another GCBC'er if they all were not too scared to climb with me like tiny baby girls.   


John F

Sorry, Texas is just out of my financial ring of accessibility

[John F]

Sorry, Texas is just out of my financial ring of accessibility

The 14er is in Colorado....I wish it was in Texas because the weeks vaca to Colorado isn't really in my financial ring of accessibility either but the wife demands some fresh mountain air and a get away is long overdue.

John F

[BoldJava]

Good article from Mark Prince on:

^  FAQs on the vacuum brews (written some time ago as CoffeeKid)
http://www.coffeekid.com/coffee/vacpots/vacpotfaq

^  Nickel's history of the vac pot, in which he predicts a resurgence of the syphon method (good section on his theory of the decline in the process, even though it is a superior cup)
http://www.coffeekid.com/coffee/vacpots/vacpotheyday

I am hooked. 

B|Java

[BoldJava]

What's working for me?

45 grams of brown
Grind just a tad finer than pourover
22 oz of Wisconsin spring water
7 out of 10 on an electric stove
Cloth filter and Cory rod both bringing home the bacon
Coffee goes in co-incidental to the visible steam (about 10 seconds before the whoosh coming North)
Turn burner down to 3.5 out of 10 for a 2 minute steep on the heat, pull off the burner 35-40 draw down
Cloth filter rinsing under very hot water, with a grouphead brush - toss in a cup of water in the fridge

Marvey


B|Java

[thugmusk]

Regarding the rinsing of the cloth filter....

I have a couple of those natural muslin cone filters and the instructions for cleaning them after a brew are to first rinse thoroughly with COLD water, then a quick rinse of hot water.  The instructions did not offer any scientific reasoning for that method but I figured they know what they are talking about.  I thought I would pass that info along as it seems it might apply to these cloth filters as well, (I am stuck on using a Cory rod for the moment)

Also, if I let them dry in the kitchen I can taste the "kitchen" in the next cup, so, once cleaned, they go into a Ball canning jar kept submerged in water until the next brew, whenever that may be as I tend to shift around my brewing methods.

Rich