Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: Ascholten on November 28, 2011, 04:15:54 PM
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Well I finally got my espresso machine I been waiting for and it looks like UPS molested it on me. Tex did a fine job of packaging it but I bet the bastards dropped it. You really can't protect too much against the sudden stop of inertia.
The first shot is the PID which is knocked out of it's holder. Should not be a big deal to fix.
Next is the top which looks like something was dropped on it, should be able to be bent back into shape
worse is the knob for the steam valve, it's entirely off center in the hole and I can't get the plastic part on. If they dropped the machine, it could have had enough force when it hit to shift everything over like that.
Any ideas on the knob thing? Is that something I can take the top off and possibly brute force it back into place w/o damaging stuff?
Aaron
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Did you purchase shipping insurance? If so I would file a claim you should not have to except that kind of damage from shipping.
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I sold it to Aaron and it didn't look like that when I dropped it at the UPS Store. I did insure it for the sale price. I'm not shipping anything else via UPS - they abuse every package I send, and I pack the shit out of these things.
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I sold it to Aaron and it didn't look like that when I dropped it at the UPS Store. I did insure it for the sale price. I'm not shipping anything else via UPS - they abuse every package I send, and I pack the shit out of these things.
Ahhh, so you dropped ... at least your honest. :)
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I sold it to Aaron and it didn't look like that when I dropped it at the UPS Store. I did insure it for the sale price. I'm not shipping anything else via UPS - they abuse every package I send, and I pack the shit out of these things.
I agree UPS sucks I usually use USPS or FedEx.
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Look under the group, where the portafilter mounts. There are four
allen
bolts that can be loosened and the boiler rotated so the knob can be inserted.
Remove the 2 screws on top of the front of the enclosure and the 2 screws on the bottom of the back of the enclosure. This will give you access to the locking collar for the PID. Unless they've completely destroyed the enclosure or PID you'll be able to push the collar and tighten the PID.
I have an extra metal plate for the top of the Classic. Remove the 4 screws holding the cover in place. If all they did was bend the metal you should be able to remove the 2 screws and replace the metal plate.
It'll be a lot easier if we don't have to file a damage claim - unless you took pictures before you started unpacking it, and took pictures of the interior packaging so we can prove it was well packed. But if you're like me and ripped into the packaging before finding the damage we'll get nothing but grief from UPS.
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I sold it to Aaron and it didn't look like that when I dropped it at the UPS Store. I did insure it for the sale price. I'm not shipping anything else via UPS - they abuse every package I send, and I pack the shit out of these things.
I agree UPS sucks I usually use USPS or FedEx.
And I have a FedEx account. It's just that the UPS Store is easier to get to for drop-offs. I really miss DHL Ground - they treated packages better than anyone else!
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Just went through a claim process with ups on an espresso machine. 5-6 inches of foam on all sides and they killed it! Denied the claim saying it didn't meet the ups standards.
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unfortunately I kind of tore into the packing. The box I opened up cleanly but well you have to get the stuff out to see if it was damaged or not.
Ill take a look at it tomorrow, we should be able to get it fixed w/o a claim I hope.
The box, it has like a 4 inch square of cardboard taped to the side of it, like it is covering a hole up, is that something you did or possibly they did it?
The box really doesn't look screwed up except for that one piece of cardboard, which if it is something they did it looks like they dropped a very heavy object which punched through the box or the thing might have fallen off a pallet and landed on the dock and punched a hole in it or something.. hard to say.
Aaron
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That's me reusing a box. I didn't want a bunch of dust in there so I patched over a hole.
I'm thinking of getting some of these to spot bad handling: http://www.uline.com/BL_1069/Dropspot (http://www.uline.com/BL_1069/Dropspot)
or : http://www.uline.com/BL_1051/Drop-N-Tell (http://www.uline.com/BL_1051/Drop-N-Tell)
It'll just add to the cost of machines; but UPS is forcing me to it.
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There was a time when people took pride in their jobs.
:-\
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That bites, Aaron.
I'm surprised that UPS doesn't break more stuff having seen how fast those guys have to sling boxes when loading and unloading those semi's in order to meet their deadlines. When things get busy, UPS works those guys like red-headed step children.
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When things get busy, UPS works those guys like red-headed step children.
Bad business model. It may work for the short term but when people get wise to them they will lose customers in droves.
???
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That does stink! I personally hate UPS and ship all things that are important to me via Fed Ex. I think a lot of it has to do with the driver on your route. I have received smashed things from both companies with the only changing variable being where I lived at the time. The UPS delivery person where I currently live smashes stuff!
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I was chatting with a friend who used to work at UPS. He said when people would get rushed or the really lazy folks were working, they would collapse piles of boxes in order to move them on to the conveyor belts, smashing a good amount of packages in the process.
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The replacement for the bent panel is on it's way via USPS Priority Mail flat rate envelope. Let me know if there are any other problems.
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Oh yah they dropped the son of a bitch all right. After opening it up I have found.
The group head is actually tilted slightly back to the back of the machine where the G force of the drop, caused the weight of the entire head to bend the steel at the weld in the back holding that flat plate that supports it in place. It's not bad, I mean it's useable, I just need to pry it a bit to get that stuff away from the electronics on the back of the switch.
The first picture you can kind of tell where it bent / pulled away the weld a bit.
The second picture you can see sort of where the group head is kind of shoved up right under the wiring, so all the hot stuff is there, ill need to do some work to bend that out, I might have to pop the welds and try to straighten out the steel inside the thing.
The third picture you can see how the head is bent backwards from the inertia of the sudden stop when it hit the floor or whatever and the mass of the head kept it moving.
I will have a bit of work to do here, but I think it's salvageable, as long as they didn't crack the boiler or anything it's mostly cosmetic, I can live with that.
I do need to post a disclaimer.
THIS IS IN NO WAY ROBERTS FAULT!! The way he packaged this thing, a damned car probably could have run it over and not hurt it, but there is honestly NO WAY to package against blunt force impact damage when shit gets dropped. Especially stuff that has heavy components. That inertia has to go somewhere when it stops, and it does so by bending at the weakest points. Without some stupidly insane $3k special box like we used to ship gyro stuff in, in the navy, you can't stop this. It is similar to when a motorcycle rider hits something, yes he may be wearing a helmet, but his innards slap around inside his body and causes severe damage, he can't help that. Please do not hold this against Tex in any way.
I know he's pissed and I kind of feel bad about that too.
Aaron
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That's just stupid! There must have been significant damage to the outside of the box if it was dropped far enough to cause that (thrown that far?). No cardboard box can hold up to inertia like that.
I wonder if they'd be more respectful of packages with one of these stuck on the outside?
(http://www.uline.com/images/en-US/transparent.gif)
(http://www.uline.com/images/en-US/transparent.gif)
(http://www.uline.com/images/product/Large/HD_1069_L.jpg)
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I bet they wouldn't tear it off if it was under several wraps of packing tape that went around the circumference of the box.
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Actually Tex, not always. Hold the box out in front you at arms length possibly even lift it up to your eyes, and just drop it straight down. The box is going to land flat on it's bottom. The tape you had on it is strong enough that the walls are NOT going to burst out. Since it did not land on a corner, there is not going to be any tell tale crushings there. But the pot inside it, will sit HARD on the styrofoam and packing cardboard you put in there, that will cushion the exterior, so there will be no smushings on the feet of the stainless or busted plastic (although there is not much of that on this nice pot) however the group head, has no poofy stuff to absorb it's mass inertia, just the little spot weld holding the steel plate it is anchored to.... guess where it's energy goes?
THose g shock things are interesting though. but once they go off, can you reset it or is it toast? Also, UPS I can pretty much guarantee does not have anything in it's 'liabilities' section about G shock so probably would just scoff at you if you tried a claim on that.
One question though. The steel inside is going to be a bit ... work intensive to bust the welds off without messing up the exterior, and bending out and re welding. As I said cosmetics I can deal with, actually it gives the pot a personality, some may call that blasphemous, but an ole squid like me, banged up shit has personality and a sea story behind it :o ;D anyways the question
With the group head tilted back a bit like that, is that going to physically cause any problems with pulling a shot? In other words if it is not being level is that going to negatively affect the things ability to make a decent shot of coffee? If not then Ill just rotate the head a bit to get the handle on the steam valve put a piece of bakelite between the switch connections and the heater connection and we are good to go!!
Seriously dude, if the thing does not blow out when i try it, im not overly worried about minor cosmetics, as long as it works right. I know you take great pride in your work, but this is something you had no part in. Given the box was not damaged really, UPS is going to piss on you and me if we try to do a claim, I just don't want you to feel like you are obligated for some reason, especially if the thing still works right.
Nobody besides one of 'us' is going to notice something is not perfect anyways.
oh another ? the allen heads to rotate the group, those are the ones under neath on the outside right? not the inside ones?
Aaron
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Wow, this is exactly why I won't use UPS. I'm hoping FedEx delivers the grinder in one piece.
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Milow, the grinder arrived today in good condition. Thank you. Wow!! This is a NICE grinder. I didn't really look too hard at it when I asked you for it, but this thing is really well thought out. IM dialing it in now, first run was a bit fast on the spresso but still good... have a feeling next run I have it too fine but still, I like it. Dammit, now I dont know if I want to bring this one to work or the super jolly.
I already know my doctor is going to be pissed at me Friday when i go in for my appointment. Aaron your blood pressure is 219 over 180... ess... esss... essspressoooo GOOD!!!!!!
Aaron
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Actually Tex, not always. Hold the box out in front you at arms length possibly even lift it up to your eyes, and just drop it straight down. The box is going to land flat on it's bottom. The tape you had on it is strong enough that the walls are NOT going to burst out. Since it did not land on a corner, there is not going to be any tell tale crushings there. But the pot inside it, will sit HARD on the styrofoam and packing cardboard you put in there, that will cushion the exterior, so there will be no smushings on the feet of the stainless or busted plastic (although there is not much of that on this nice pot) however the group head, has no poofy stuff to absorb it's mass inertia, just the little spot weld holding the steel plate it is anchored to.... guess where it's energy goes?
THose g shock things are interesting though. but once they go off, can you reset it or is it toast? Also, UPS I can pretty much guarantee does not have anything in it's 'liabilities' section about G shock so probably would just scoff at you if you tried a claim on that.
One question though. The steel inside is going to be a bit ... work intensive to bust the welds off without messing up the exterior, and bending out and re welding. As I said cosmetics I can deal with, actually it gives the pot a personality, some may call that blasphemous, but an ole squid like me, banged up shit has personality and a sea story behind it :o ;D anyways the question
With the group head tilted back a bit like that, is that going to physically cause any problems with pulling a shot? In other words if it is not being level is that going to negatively affect the things ability to make a decent shot of coffee? If not then Ill just rotate the head a bit to get the handle on the steam valve put a piece of bakelite between the switch connections and the heater connection and we are good to go!!
Seriously dude, if the thing does not blow out when i try it, im not overly worried about minor cosmetics, as long as it works right. I know you take great pride in your work, but this is something you had no part in. Given the box was not damaged really, UPS is going to piss on you and me if we try to do a claim, I just don't want you to feel like you are obligated for some reason, especially if the thing still works right.
Nobody besides one of 'us' is going to notice something is not perfect anyways.
oh another ? the allen heads to rotate the group, those are the ones under neath on the outside right? not the inside ones?
Aaron
There's no reason the group/boiler has to be perfectly aligned, but it might make a shot flow through one spout more than the other. If you did as I suggest & removed the spout it would be moot.
Yes, the bolts I referred to are the four exterior ones. The reason I removed the steam valve knob is the boiler can shift a bit if the box is dropped and I've had knobs broken. I sold a Carezza to a GCBCer last year and forgot to remove the knob and had to buy a replacement.
I wish these (http://www.masterpkg.com/foam-in-bag.htm) weren't so costly - I'd really like to use them.
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I just fired up the machine tex. The temperature wants to rest out at about 220 degrees. A bit high? but the coffee is still good. I decided that after this stint I better pay my tithings to the coffee gods and used a decent brazillian to dial it and my new awesome grinder in. 4 shots later I am getting them at 2 ounces in 30 seconds now, and not bitter at all. Since the thing is not pissing out of the ports im not going to worry about the higher resting temp unless I need to. Ill get the bolts undone tomorrow and move the head around and get the steam valve on and give it a try, Id do it tonight but ran out of milk so will have to get some tomorrow to try.
I think this is going to work as it is, ill let you know tomorrow after i get the knob on and everything put back together, I have it pretty much apart now, I wanted to see if there were any leaks etc as I heated it up towards the 300 mark.... luckily everything looks good.
Aaron
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Good work Aaron!
:)
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Tex, those foam in bag thingies. What if you packed your stuff, put a ziplock bag next to them, and got one of those can's of foam sealant for like around plugs and shot it into the ziplocks packed around, then sealed them up? Just a suggestion, but GOD HELP YOU>>>>>> do NOT get that crap on your hands / skin.
It takes about 3 seconds to set on skin and you will NOT get it off. I have tried about 15 different kinds of solvent and that stuff does not come off except with time. Short of dunking my hands in acid or lye that stuff does not come off. soap / alcohol / methanol / ethanol / laqueor thinner / acetone / gasoline / diesel / MEK / R22 / dry cleaning solvent / brake fluid / TSP/ .... carbon tet... nope not coming off. I could tell you a story of busted pipes / foam insulation / turning water back on too soon / tidal wave wall of foam shit dropping on my arms hands. but ill save it.
Still though, with a drop, it aint gonna help, unless you packed in a container that had 8 inches of 'crush' room to decelerate the item, even then the weight of the head .vs. the tensile strength of the steel holding it in place.... mass wins over gravity every time. Even tensile strength gives way to brittleness. You need distance to increase deceleration time, distance equals much bigger packages which equals price to shop going up exponentially.
Aaron
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I just fired up the machine tex. The temperature wants to rest out at about 220 degrees. A bit high? but the coffee is still good. I decided that after this stint I better pay my tithings to the coffee gods and used a decent brazillian to dial it and my new awesome grinder in. 4 shots later I am getting them at 2 ounces in 30 seconds now, and not bitter at all. Since the thing is not pissing out of the ports im not going to worry about the higher resting temp unless I need to. Ill get the bolts undone tomorrow and move the head around and get the steam valve on and give it a try, Id do it tonight but ran out of milk so will have to get some tomorrow to try.
I think this is going to work as it is, ill let you know tomorrow after i get the knob on and everything put back together, I have it pretty much apart now, I wanted to see if there were any leaks etc as I heated it up towards the 300 mark.... luckily everything looks good.
Aaron
Believe it or not, 220°F was about right for the light roasted Yemen/Brazil beans I was using when I tuned the Classic. One of my rules of thumb is the darker the roast the lower the brew temp & vice-versa. CW is that espresso is best brewed at 196 - 203°F.
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Does it make a difference if UPS packs the item themselves? That should at least eliminate the excuse that packing wasn't up to their standards. The reason I ask is that I'm buying a Sonofresco, and the seller wants to have UPS pack and ship it (with insurance). Should I insist on FedeX? BTW, I have a pretty good relationship with my local UPS guy, but I expect that any damage would be done long before it actually gets on his truck.
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Does it make a difference if UPS packs the item themselves? That should at least eliminate the excuse that packing wasn't up to their standards. The reason I ask is that I'm buying a Sonofresco, and the seller wants to have UPS pack and ship it (with insurance). Should I insist on FedeX? BTW, I have a pretty good relationship with my local UPS guy, but I expect that any damage would be done long before it actually gets on his truck.
I would buy a box from Sonofresco. or have UPS pack it.
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Does it make a difference if UPS packs the item themselves? That should at least eliminate the excuse that packing wasn't up to their standards. The reason I ask is that I'm buying a Sonofresco, and the seller wants to have UPS pack and ship it (with insurance). Should I insist on FedeX? BTW, I have a pretty good relationship with my local UPS guy, but I expect that any damage would be done long before it actually gets on his truck.
I would buy a box from Sonofresco. or have UPS pack it.
+1
Sono's are pretty much bulletproof, except for the roast chamber. I'd at least have the glass chamber packed by UPS/FedEx and shipped separately. Last time I checked they cost $225 or ~1/10 of a new machine - well worth extra care.
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Well, I was finally able to work on the machine a bit today, I took it to work and had at it in the metal shop. I figured the easiest way to do it was to try to 'reverse' the strains they put on it only not so violently. A bit of force applied in a few areas after loosening some stuff up and it pretty much bent back to where it was supposed to be.
Tex, those bolts underneath to let the collar loose to move the group head. Won't work that way, the screw holes in the head will shift and then won't align with the screw holes in the bottom of the machine. No worries, I was able to gently with a kinetic hammer move it back into place without any damage. I finally got the knob thingie to align up most the way with the hole to the point to where I could get the knob on. It's a bit stiff and squeaks when I turn it but I say that's a good thing when you have 280 degree steam behind it to keep it nice and tight. Working with steam pressures up to 2800 PSI running close to 1000 degrees, I have seen first hand what can happen when steam goes wrong!! The top steel has a crease in it and a buckle in the corner but the machine is really no worse for the wear. I heated it up and let it set a few minutes and nothing gave out, let the pressure out and I believe it will do what we need it to.
Im just glad it's good to go and we don't have to do a claim. I do have a non related question though. On my astra grinder, it has a handle thing in front of it. What is that for?
Aaron
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I do have a non related question though. On my astra grinder, it has a handle thing in front of it. What is that for?
Aaron
Aaron
Do you mean what I have circled? That is a tamper..... useless
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yep that's it milo. THanks. I figured it might be a foot rest for when you really have to bear down tamping a shot hehe.
Aaron
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I'm still at a loss for words Aaron - but I do appreciate the effort you made to get it working. I too am glad we don't have to deal with a claim.
On the plus side, at least you got a nice tamper in the deal. ;)
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I took the top off the machine and ran the steel plate through a 100 ton press, the dents are minimal now. if I wanted to work it I could probably roll / press them completely out, or shit just cut a new top out of some sheet stainless, we have all grades, or even inchonel but that's a real sob to work with. Im happy with it tex, it works and is more 'manly' for it. I mean face it, it wouldn't be proper for a 'Redneck Roaster' if it didn't have some sort of battle scars on it ;D
Aaron