Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: Ascholten on December 11, 2011, 10:45:19 AM
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Odd question but here goes. Pretty much every espresso machine I have seen is electric.
Do they make Propane or LPG / gas machines that use gas for heating?
I wonder how hard that would be to do. Temp control might be a bit buggery but it seems doable.
Im thinking on my boat, bringing an inverter and battery big enough to handle 1000 to 1500 watt 'stints' to boil / steam the water would be heavy cumbersome and take up significant room. A machine that may be a bit bigger due to the need for venting and a burner / fireproofing etc that runs off say one of those little propane bottles or even a 15 lb tank with adapter now is doable. you only really are putting the juice to it for a minute at a time really? A quick burn with a propane burner and you are in business. Have a heavier boiler so you have thermal mass there to handle an entire shot. .. hopefully someone read my mind and something like this exists. If not, all ya experimenters have at it, just give me the first commercial machine you come out with for giving you the idea ;D A closely tuned PID with some tweaks on the D might handle it nicely for burner flame control.
Aaron
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Ask Milo... I think he has a propane machine.
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Very old lever espresso machines were offered with propane boiler burners. I have personally never had one and the majority of ones I know of are from the 60s or earlier. I do know that Bosco will do it on a machine per request, I believe Astoria and Rancilio also offer it on request all at an additional charge. I believe there is still a pressure stat present, which would have to function to start / stop propane flow somehow, with a pilot being constantly lit during operation, because I know that none of them need any electricity at all. Andrew Freeman of Blue Bottle actually started his espresso machine cart with a propane powered lever and I believe that is still the machine they use for their market tents too.
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Maybe if it's too much of a hassle you can just use a generator.
:)
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A generator would be pretty loud on a boat! Unless you bought one of the $3,000 dollar Honda ones :) .
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A generator would be pretty loud on a boat! Unless you bought one of the $3,000 dollar Honda ones :) .
Depending on the espresso machine couldn't he spend more than 3k to get into something propane powered? I would rather have the versatility of a generator.
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Ask Milo... I think he has a propane machine.
I do have a propane Lever machine, although I don't have it up and running yet. It's similar to this one I saw on CL this weekend. It's both electric and propane heat.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bfs/2734026595.html (http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bfs/2734026595.html)
You still need a water source and some sort of pump to get the water into the boiler... I'm not sure how that works.
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A generator would be pretty loud on a boat! Unless you bought one of the $3,000 dollar Honda ones :) .
A boat big enough to accomodate a commercial espresso machine probably has a generator.
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Wow big machines, don't have room for a generator. Inverter and battery would be smaller also. Too bad nobody makes a 'personal propane' espresso machine. I don't see where it would be too hard you could have like an outside kicker box for the propane heater and boiler. Hmm. I wonder
Aaron
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I have been rebuilding a Faima Smart 1 group and they have an option for propane. Mine does not have the option added but from looking at the drawings the burner is right under the boiler. Long pipe burner. The steam pressure would control the gas to the burner. I would worry if the design was a little off pressure could get too high and the boiler would blow.
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ringo the boiler is very small and probably capable of handing several hundred pounds of pressure, besides a relief valve would take care of that too.
Aaron
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Isn't there already an over pressure valve that would blow before the boiler let loose?
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Isn't there already an over pressure valve that would blow before the boiler let loose?
All of the commercial machines I've seen have popoff valves that open ~260°F. I always wanted to put a steam whistle on mine to make sure it got my attention.
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I work with boilers at work so will be a little cautious. My faima has a 7 liter boiler under pressure, if the boiler fails it will expand to steam instantly. I think it like 50 times. That is a lot of steam to burn your customers. I understand that I am being over cautions an the risk of a failure is low but if you alter a machine and someone get hurt you will have trouble. The picture is of the only failure I have ever seen pictures ofbut it looks scary.
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Wow!! KaBoom! I wonder if the blow-off valve got too scaled up to work?
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Wow!! KaBoom! I wonder if the blow-off valve got too scaled up to work?
That would be a fine piece of scale if I have ever seen one! None of the 50-60 year old machines I have restored had stuck pressure release valves and I have seen some pretty nasty and neglected machines! When I cracked the boiler on my '52 Conti it had at least 3" of solid scale in the bottom of the boiler
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Whoa! That's a lot. What could make a one stick? Corrosion? Being stored in a damp environment?
What is that machine anyway?
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Whoa! That's a lot. What could make a one stick? Corrosion? Being stored in a damp environment?
What is that machine anyway?
One simpleton and an unfortunate confluence of events, most likely. The pressure stat diaphragm leaks, ancient bi-metallic safety tstats fail to open, boiler pressure rises, popoff valve releases steam, some idiot removes the popoff's safety seal and tightens the valve, and eventually enough pressure builds until the boiler ruptures.
BOOM!
See, it's pretty simple to turn a safe espresso machine into an IED.
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Ouch, and for the record, when water turns to steam it actually expands about 1700 times it's original volume. It does just as much damage collapsing back into water too.
Tanker Implodes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uCvZ7IeUFA#)
Aaron
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Ouch, and for the record, when water turns to steam it actually expands about 1700 times it's original volume. It does just as much damage collapsing back into water too.
Tanker Implodes ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uCvZ7IeUFA#[/url])
Aaron
It's all about positive and negative pressure in a vessel, relative to the ambient pressure. Which is why a stalled vac pot change be so entertaining!