Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: BoldJava on October 11, 2009, 08:01:40 AM
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Just a follow-up endorsement for the #1 Hario ceramic pourover. What a slick, functional, clean piece of art. I have been using it all weekend to try and re-try a cup of this, a cup of that. Love the convenience, the feel, the cup. Back in stock at the end of October (everyone out -- boat arrives this month). I have been using the Hario filters and
http://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/store/product/id/320 (http://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/store/product/id/320)6
At Friday's cupping, we had some idle chatter about a future drip-off in Lake Cheddar featuring:
Wild Bill (StrayClaySpray Drippers ®) vs.
Peter's Sweetmaria's CCD (not the Baltimore Catechism) vs.
B|Java's Hario Ceramic
Need to work on the logistics and how to drip this one off but stay tuned. Betting line will be found here:
http://covers.com under "3 Big Drips."
Wild Bill: http://xrl.us/WildBillDripz (http://xrl.us/WildBillDripz) (Link to strayclay.com)
Peter's Best Hope: http://xrl.us/PeterBrewz (http://xrl.us/PeterBrewz) (Link to www.sweetmarias.com)
B|Java's Entrant: http://xrl.us/BJavaOddzOnFav (http://xrl.us/BJavaOddzOnFav) (Link to www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com)
B|Java
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I can already tell you how it's going to turn out.
Also, I'm glad the CCD isn't my creation, so it doesn't appear that I'm hyping my own gizmo.
Other pour-overs cannot compete.
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I will not be rooting for the Hario . . .
. . . because that would be unseemly prophetic* triumphalism. ;D
* actually not -- it requires no prophetic powers to augur the outcome of this unfair fight, with two hobbled mules pulling against an in-the-flush-of-youth Belgian powerhouse. ;D ;D ;D ;D
edit: Actually, I found a picture of all three contestants:
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_03/giantHorseG2707_468x314.jpg)
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This month's issue of Barista magazine has a great two page layout/article on the V60 Ceramic. Doug Hermann lays out "Unlocking the Hario." Very well done, but if you read this thread -- with Rasqual's discussion of individual brewing control, and my methodology -- well, you read it here first. The author goes too light on grams of coffee (IMHO) but that is back to control. Maybe he is slowing the pour more than I do.
Just looked and it is posted in their online content, pp 62-63.
http://baristamagazine.epubxpress.com/bam1
RE: Peter and WildBill's pourover challenge - Nary a word from either of them. Hario stands tall and unchallenged. Similar discussion over at coffeed.com. http://www.coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2941 (http://www.coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2941)
B|Java
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Don't run out and buy a Hario just yet...
I'm happy to let everyone know that I have been working on a small distro of Hario pour over products. Since this will be my first distro for the club, available quantities will be kept light. The items are expected to ship in early November. I will post a thread in the group buy section within the next day or so.
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Don't run out and buy a Hario just yet...
I'm happy to let everyone know that I have been working on a small distro of Hario pour over products. Since this will be my first distro for the club, available quantities will be kept light. The items are expected to ship in early November. I will post a thread in the group buy section within the next day or so.
Hey man, I was just pumpin' up the presale <grins>.
B|Java
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RE: Peter and WildBill's pourover challenge - Nary a word from either of them. Hario stands tall and unchallenged.
B|Java
You may have misconstrued my statement that the Hario offers nothing in the way of a challenge to the Clever Coffee Dripper as silence on my part. If your position is that the Hario has game, then I suggest you set the time and date for the throw-down, buster.
I will roast up sufficient quantity of three different beans, and bring along my dripper and my water kettle. With only a little luck, we should be able to do some side by side slurps.
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RE: Peter and WildBill's pourover challenge - Nary a word from either of them. Hario stands tall and unchallenged. Similar discussion over at coffeed.com. [url]http://www.coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2941[/url] ([url]http://www.coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2941[/url])
B|Java
I would like to schedule that "pour down" to coincide with a trip to Cheddar Lake to pick up some greens... (and maybe a clever brewer) and some reportedly good chicken...
I think the pour over brew time is in the filter (for consistency) and in the bean roast, grind, ambient humidity, air pressure as well... that said... the flutes or no flutes can change the time and no flute would slow down.. to me tat is good, the clever is a happy compromise between the complexity of a french press and the convenience of the pour over...
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Neither the Chimp nor the Chump scare the Hario. Bring it on boys.
B|Champ
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Wild Bill has hinted at bringing his lovely this way on a Sunday. We should let them pick a day and time, as our guests, and go from there.
Maybe B|Bookie should lay some odds for those who want to ride the back of the Clever to instant wealthdom.
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This month's issue of Barista magazine has a great two page layout/article on the V60 Ceramic. Doug Hermann lays out "Unlocking the Hario." Very well done, but if you read this thread -- with Rasqual's discussion of individual brewing control, and my methodology -- well, you read it here first. The author goes too light on grams of coffee (IMHO) but that is back to control. Maybe he is slowing the pour more than I do.
Just looked and it is posted in their online content, pp 62-63.
[url]http://baristamagazine.epubxpress.com/bam1[/url]
LOL
"The major advantage of the Hario V60 is that so many variables are under the control of the barista."
Yep.
Of course, Bill's been making full-open bottoms with his ceramic pourovers too, so he's on his way to the same territory. I'd merely express a preference for less expensive, non-"foldover" filters (contra Chemex -- I've always found the single-layer/triple-layer consequence of starting with flat paper odd for two reasons). I think a conicity that would accommodate Melittas would be just about perfect. And Bill? Fluting, dude. ;)
OTOH, if the Hario catches on, right-angle filters will doubtless get cheaper as competition for that market heats up. And while the Melitta can be adapted to the Hario conicity with a single fold, the opposite is not true. Riding the Hario's popularity and availing oneself of popular filters may mean designing for that.
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...
OTOH, if the Hario catches on, right-angle filters will doubtless get cheaper as competition for that market heats up. . .
HeadChange's pending distro will be the precipitating event that sets the theme for the 2012 presidential election:
"...and a Hario V60 ceramic in every home."
B|Java
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...
OTOH, if the Hario catches on, right-angle filters will doubtless get cheaper as competition for that market heats up. . .
HeadChange's pending distro will be the precipitating event that sets the theme for the 2012 presidential election:
"...and a Hario V60 ceramic in every home."
B|Java
But don't we owe it to the members to fully explore the issue and crown a reigning dripper?
Not everyone wants to own as many toys as B|ToyKing, nor should they be left to do all the experimenting on their own.
If Bill can't make it up soon for a 3-way play-off, I say the Clever and the Hario go toe to toe on the 30th. Bill... ?
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If Bill can't make it up soon for a 3-way play-off, I say the Clever and the Hario go toe to toe on the 30th. Bill... ?
3-way or nothing at all. If we go head-to-head without him, we will listen to him cry and blow smoke all Winter at the rest of the club with, "...if only's..."
I have Friday, my place reserved, for that funnel-headed pourover from the South and you. If WildBill can't make it, we will reschedule so he doesn't worm his way out. I have never really SEEN one of his funnel cake drippers. I wonder if they really exist or if he will need to scramble and bake one up this week?
B|NotAfraid
(http://www.mattscones.com/images/xlvcone1a.gif)
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Young Bill has some steady work again, I hear. My guess is he's a long shot. My other guess is he's been talking about a Sunday drive to the Chicken Shack over her w/ Mrs. Bill...
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Young Bill has some steady work again, I hear...
WildBill will do anything to get out of being spanked by the Hario V60 Ceramic.
B|Java
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WOW?!?!?! the heat is on!!! my honey said lets skip church on Sunday (tomorrow) ~hope you guys roasted coffee~
seriously... Friday may work.. I have worked the last 3 Saturdays but next Saturday sounds like no work... but we were thinking next Sunday but maybe we will wonder out pyment's way in search of good cheese and strait razer's instead...
bottom line... Friday at ?? 4pm is a little soon for my schedule... more like 5pm ~~ish~~
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I will check the Friday 5:05 pm start time with the Czarina. If it is a go, I will put out a blanket invite. Peter, you roasting?
Game on.
B|Java
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B|Java... time to lay some odds, with the exception that the winner takes nothing. Any and all bets go to Coffee Kids.
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B|Java... time to lay some odds, with the exception that the winner takes nothing. Any and all bets go to Coffee Kids.
Have you noticed that once we put the challenge live, he can't seem to find the 'commit to Friday' button? I think he has MzWildBill out back working on a new design to throw at us.
B|Java
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B|Java... time to lay some odds, with the exception that the winner takes nothing. Any and all bets go to Coffee Kids.
Have you noticed that once we put the challenge live, he can't seem to find the 'commit to Friday' button? I think he has MzWildBill out back working on a new design to throw at us.
B|Java
right now we are on for Friday... no work scheduled for Saturday at 6 am (yet)
I have no qualms about this competition... just about early Saturdays after post coffee chicken... :D
we are playing with fluting... but not in time for Friday (I think)
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Coffee Kids Benefit
Event: 3 On 3: Pourover Throw-down.
Who:
^ Dave's Hario V60 Ceramic Pourover: http://billykangas.blogspot.com/2009/07/po.html (http://billykangas.blogspot.com/2009/07/po.html)
^ Peter's Clever Dripper: (http://www.sweetmarias.com/weblog/?p=365)
^ WildBill's Ceramic Dripper: (http://strayclay.com/zen-cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=11&zenid=64bd7170d3f380f45a68d26742cffd91)
When: Friday, Oct 30th
Time: 5:08pm sharp (note change in start time)
Place: Lake Cheddar
Coffee Kids benefit: Post your expected winner and amount wagered. Note: If your "horse" comes in, you pay. You are betting on the favorite with the hopes of making a donation. I will keep a running tally.
http://coffeekids.org/donate/ or checks to:
Coffee Kids
1751 Old Pecos Trail, Suite K
Santa Fe, NM 87505
Thanks, the Happy Pourover Trio
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Coffee Kids benefit: Post your expected winner and amount wagered. Note: If your "horse" comes in, you pay. You are betting on the favorite with the hopes of making a donation. I will keep a running tally.
This is very easy. Hario in a cake walk. $35.
B|Java
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Since you think the Hario is a 3.5:1 favorite, I'll wager $10.
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Since you think the Hario is a 3.5:1 favorite, I'll wager $10.
I presume you are betting on the Hario/B|Java team.
B|Java
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.
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You guys need to set this up as a webcast ;)
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You guys need to set this up as a webcast ;)
I was going to and have play-by-play and color all set up. I was thinking of having Keith Jackson do the PBP and John Madden do the color. Neither was available so I scrubbed it as the sponsors thought we needed their name recognition to draw an audience.
Reno Rob
Wild Bill (aka JJRoaster)
Peter
Jeff
B|Java
"Whoa, Nellie."
B|Java
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You guys need to set this up as a webcast ;)
That's what I'm sayin'. If for no other reason than to keep B|Embellisher honest.
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That's what I'm sayin'. If for no other reason than to keep B|Embellisher honest.
I once had an appointment with Carl Jung. He indicated that my shadow side was prone to embellishment, hyperbole, and exaggeration. I asked him what to do about it.
"Always keep a German friend around," he replied in his Schweizerdeutsch.
I have.
B|Java
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How come me and Jeffo are always the only ones to vote right on these dumb polls?
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How come me and Jeffo are always the only ones to vote right on these dumb polls?
Just because the club's vote is square against you doesn't mean you won't lose.
Hario is in the kitchen, stretching out hamstrings. About to brew a Kenyan with it to help loosen them.
B|Java
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What poll did I vote on? I'm thinking north.
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5:13PM. Peter shows. No brewer. Truth.
Intimidated. Sent home to get it.
B|Java
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Wild Bill's Small Ceramic. Wonderful texture. Good for a 10-16 oz cup.
B|Java
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Wild Bill's Small Ceramic. Wonderful texture. Good for a 10-16 oz cup.
B|Java
Oh that's purty. Those other two had better make some dang fine coffee to keep up.
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Me likey Wild Bill's brewer. :o ;D
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I am very tactile. I love WildBillz small ceramic. Touch. Sight. Feel.
I will put up photos on my Google account by tomorrow a.m., with narrative over here on this thread. Guys can add comments.
Fair warning: We got as g-e-e-k-y as I have ever seen us.
B|Java
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Let's try a link to the Google album. Slideshow available with captions. (Move mouse over picture and tools appear to advance to next picture).
http://picasaweb.google.com/davidborton/PouroverThrowdown#slideshow/5398583172908737954 (http://picasaweb.google.com/davidborton/PouroverThrowdown#slideshow/5398583172908737954)
B|Java
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One Question...... where are the GCBC t-shirts?
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One Question...... where are the GCBC t-shirts?
T-Shirts. Budd, this is Wisconsin in late October. We have put those T-Shirts up over a month ago.
B|Java
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One Question...... where are the GCBC t-shirts?
T-Shirts. Budd, this is Wisconsin in late October. We have put those T-Shirts up over a month ago.
B|Java
Nice try...... ??? ;D
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_JxU5ojsMNTo/SuufCem5VgI/AAAAAAAACng/wV8ZUhYyffs/DSCN1195.JPG)(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_JxU5ojsMNTo/Suue_D_Q9hI/AAAAAAAACnM/Q34iGCa5cyA/DSCN1187.JPG)
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I think there is something to be said about the Hario just based on the smile BIJava has on his face.
If it's that much fun using it's gotta be good. ;D
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Short-cut to the bottom line: Who won? We all did. It was a “push.â€
Long post? Well, we fiddled and futzed more than I have ever seen us. We decided up front that the whole effort was absurd and we were going to have a good time doing the absurd. Mission accomplished. Good folks, good time, good fellowship, good coffee, good chicken.
After the first cup, we moved to an identical ratio for testing purposes:
16 oz spring water: 27 grams of coffee (I like and make mine stronger, typically, as I am a 'skosh of halfundhalf' boy).
Impressions:
^ S|M's Clever Coffee Dripper – really is a cleaned-up presspot cup. No sludge but the body and 'umph' of a French press cup. Peter steeps for 3:15 with it. It consistently offered the most body of the three entrants. Good cup.
^ Bill's ceramics take the beauty prize from many directions – touch and looks. Very sharp, though I was partial to Denise's handwork art in the pottery. Talk about gorgeous functional art, this is it. Bill's cups were consistently the 'softest,' probably from the most rapid throughput <?>. Not sure; could be the Chemex bleached filters as Bill tried one of my Melitta bleached filters and the cup seemed to gain some body. Good cup.
^ Hario V60 Ceramic, number 1 (good for 10-14 oz of coffee). Remains my favorite but I am biased, admittedly. I love the ceramic and the hefty feel (9+ ounces in weight for a tiny 1-cup pourover). It produced the most consistently bright, fruity cups (except for the time I pooched the amount of coffee). Fluted physics? Who knows.
So which is best? You choose. There isn't a bad choice in here. All winners. Differences are subtle and differences could be shaded further merely by the barista in control.
I like the Hario #1 for those times the Czarina is coffee-d out and I am drinking alone. Quick, easy 10 ounce cup with a dip of the brewer in hot water and the clean-up is done. Love the hefty weight when I am working with it. I am not into plastic so it's ceramic only for me.
Gents/Denise, jump in there and add impressions.
Thanks folks for a delightful time. Rumor has it that Brother Sheridan might pay us a visit the next time around at the B|Java abode.
B|Java
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Filters. Well, this could be a thread all of its own.
I typically use Hario's unbleached filters but before today's throw-down, I hit the supermarket and grabbed Melitta's number 2, coned, oxygenated. I merely folded it at right angle and it worked perfectly. The paper is similar to the Hario's in porosity and the steep lasted about 1:25 for a 10 ounce cup, standard with the Hario V60#1. You can stretch the steep as long as you care to, though at some point, you are getting lower temps if you move too slowly.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SQ-s4TXnL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I am going to prepare cups using the Melitta oxygenated and have it go head to head with the unbleached Hario and see if I can discern a difference. Others have told me that the Melitta blows out the bottom ... with my volumes, that didn't happen and I don't see it happening. HeadChange has the white Hario filters on the way so I will add them to the mix. Heavens, I am getting a stash of pourover filters as deep as my stash of greens.
For my tastes, the Chemex filters hold back too many of the oils. The unbleached Chemex leaves a paper taste that is too distinct ... it really sings out to me.
Try several out; your mileage may will vary. Add your two cents to the thread and we can all learn together.
B|Java
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Wish I'd been there! What I was doing instead was both necessary and absurd.
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~Denise~
missed you Dee... I like my coffee soft, so less oily is good for me. We have several sets (filter holder and two matching mugs) in production, I will make Bill put pictures up as soon as they are fired. And, the chicken was awesome.
~/Denise~
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The chicken was awesome... I was surprised that there was as much difference between the chemex filter and the melitta filter... but I was not surprised by peter's clever brewer.. we were already talking about a hand made brewer that will use the melitta style filters because they are easier for our customers to get... now we want to find a food grade bouncy ball to drop in the bottom on a chain.... (or some other kinda removable plug)
bottom line it is a personal preference... and a gram scale will be in brewing (at least when I am at my geekiest ;)
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I really wasn't expecting to taste any difference and to my great surprise each method was significantly different. The main thing was drinking coffee with nice people and talking shop and other stuff.
Dave was a great host as usual. Thanks for posting the notes and photos.
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The chicken was awesome... I was surprised that there was as much difference between the chemex filter and the melitta filter...
That's just such an unlikely sequence/juxtaposition/conceptual pairing. ;D
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The chicken was awesome... I was surprised that there was as much difference between the chemex filter and the melitta filter...
That's just such an unlikely sequence/juxtaposition/conceptual pairing. ;D
LOL... the chicken and coffee?? or melitta and chemex??? or all of the above
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Your post didn't mention coffee at all -- just chicken and the filters.
A n00b in these parts might think you guys were reconstituting bouillon or somesuch. ;D
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Your post didn't mention coffee at all -- just chicken and the filters.
A n00b in these parts might think you guys were reconstituting bouillon or somesuch. ;D
the coffee was very good (as expected) the selection covered the range of different tastes that various origins present...the Sidamo was wonderfully roasted, glad I bought some, hope I can roast it as well as peter did...
(is that better ;)
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I'm just glad the chicken came in for some praise as well. They don't get enough attention in these parts.
(Scott, off to crash a chicken forum somewhere with word of great coffee ;-)
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I'm just glad the chicken came in for some praise as well. They don't get enough attention in these parts.
(Scott, off to crash a chicken forum somewhere with word of great coffee ;-)
LOL
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The chicken was awesome... I was surprised that there was as much difference between the chemex filter and the melitta filter
I was surprised in the difference between the chicken and the Chemex filter. Both often taste like cardboard.
B|Java
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BTW, it's very nearly a hapax (http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHNP_enUS340US340&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=%22chicken+buying+club%22) . . .
;D
Compare to the mighty wave (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHNP_enUS340US340&q=%22coffee+buying+club%22&aq=f&oq=&aqi=) . . .
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BTW, it's very nearly a hapax ([url]http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHNP_enUS340US340&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=%22chicken+buying+club%22[/url]) . . .
;D
Compare to the mighty wave ([url]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHNP_enUS340US340&q=%22coffee+buying+club%22&aq=f&oq=&aqi=[/url]) . . .
people splitting coups of chickens and having fun doing it.....
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...people splitting coups of chickens and having fun doing it.....
We could catch the King Rooster, recently spotted in Springfield, and have the Wisconsin State Police escort him to the state line and send him to Illinois. Then we will see where Obama really comes down when he sends Hillary in.
B|Java
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_02/chickensCPA_468x346.jpg)
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LMAO
You guys slay me.
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CCD-Mr Thompson Owen and a Clever twist (brewed at strength x 2, then diluted)
Clever Coffee Dripper; Techniques and a Twist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_-wyjaCPj8#ws)
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Interesting. I've never used a CCD before. How does the cup compare to the inverted AP method?
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Interesting. I've never used a CCD before. How does the cup compare to the inverted AP method?
That's a good question. It's been a long time since I've used the AP to brew a cup of black coffee. Mine is pretty much relegated to iced coffee usage, so I can't give you a direct comparison to the CCD.
I've done a couple side-by-side, simultaneous brews with the CCD and my trusty/rusty press pot. There are some real similarities there, both being full-immersion steeping, with the main difference I find coming from the paper filter vs. screen. For the last several months, my daily go-to has been the CCD with the white Filtropa filters. Six months ago I would have said you're crazy if you told me I'd be preferring paper filters, but I find the flavors to be more approachable and 'present' with some of the coffee fines out of the way.
That said, I think the poly-felt really offers the best of both worlds, so I may go back to the AP for a month or two.
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The CCD is going to cover up:
B|Java
http://twitpic.com/1h4b2k (http://twitpic.com/1h4b2k)