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Author Topic: Propane  (Read 2050 times)

Offline Ascholten

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Propane
« on: December 11, 2011, 10:45:19 AM »
Odd question but here goes.   Pretty much every espresso machine I have seen is electric.
Do they make Propane or LPG / gas machines that use gas for heating?
I wonder how hard that would be to do.   Temp control might be a bit buggery but it seems doable.

Im thinking on my boat,  bringing an inverter and battery big enough to handle 1000 to 1500 watt 'stints' to boil / steam the water would be heavy cumbersome and take up significant room.  A machine that may be a bit bigger due to the need for venting and a burner / fireproofing etc that runs off say one of those little propane bottles or even a 15 lb tank with adapter now is doable.  you only really are putting the juice to it for a minute at a time really?  A quick burn with a propane burner and you are in business.   Have a heavier boiler so you have thermal mass there to handle an entire shot.   ..  hopefully someone read my mind and something like this exists.   If not, all ya experimenters have at it, just give me the first commercial machine you come out with for giving you the idea  ;D  A closely tuned PID with some tweaks on the D might handle it nicely for burner flame control.

Aaron
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Offline John F

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Re: Propane
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2011, 11:38:16 AM »
Ask Milo... I think he has a propane machine.
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Offline Warrior372

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Re: Propane
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2011, 02:23:37 PM »
Very old lever espresso machines were offered with propane boiler burners. I have personally never had one and the majority of ones I know of are from the 60s or earlier. I do know that Bosco will do it on a machine per request, I believe Astoria and Rancilio also offer it on request all at an additional charge. I believe there is still a pressure stat present, which would have to function to start / stop propane flow somehow, with a pilot being constantly lit during operation, because I know that none of them need any electricity at all. Andrew Freeman of Blue Bottle actually started his espresso machine cart with a propane powered lever and I believe that is still the machine they use for their market tents too.
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Offline mp

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Re: Propane
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 07:15:02 PM »
Maybe if it's too much of a hassle you can just use a generator.

 :)
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Offline Warrior372

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Re: Propane
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 09:26:02 PM »
A generator would be pretty loud on a boat! Unless you bought one of the $3,000 dollar Honda ones :) .
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Offline ScareYourPassenger

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Re: Propane
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 04:53:36 AM »
Quote from: Warrior372 on December 11, 2011, 09:26:02 PM
A generator would be pretty loud on a boat! Unless you bought one of the $3,000 dollar Honda ones :) .

Depending on the espresso machine couldn't he spend more than 3k to get into something propane powered? I would rather have the versatility of a generator.
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milowebailey

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Re: Propane
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 06:48:14 AM »
Quote from: John F on December 11, 2011, 11:38:16 AM
Ask Milo... I think he has a propane machine.

I do have a propane Lever machine, although I don't have it up and running yet.  It's similar to this one I saw on CL this weekend.  It's both electric and propane heat.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bfs/2734026595.html

You still need a water source and some sort of pump to get the water into the boiler... I'm not sure how that works.

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Tex

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Re: Propane
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 08:06:13 AM »
Quote from: Warrior372 on December 11, 2011, 09:26:02 PM
A generator would be pretty loud on a boat! Unless you bought one of the $3,000 dollar Honda ones :) .

A boat big enough to accomodate a commercial espresso machine probably has a generator.
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Offline Ascholten

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Re: Propane
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 01:15:33 PM »
Wow big machines,  don't have room for a generator.  Inverter and battery would be smaller also.    Too bad nobody makes a 'personal propane' espresso machine.  I don't see where it would be too hard you could have like an outside kicker box for the propane heater and boiler.  Hmm.  I wonder

Aaron
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Offline Ringo

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Re: Propane
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 01:26:15 PM »
I have been rebuilding a Faima Smart 1 group and they have an option for propane. Mine does not have the option added but from looking at the drawings the burner is right under the boiler.  Long pipe burner.  The steam pressure would control the gas to the burner.  I would worry if the design was a little off pressure could get too high and the boiler would blow.     
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Offline Ascholten

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Re: Propane
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 01:36:51 PM »
ringo the boiler is very small and probably capable of handing several hundred pounds of pressure, besides a relief valve would take care of that too.

Aaron
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Offline grinderz

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Re: Propane
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 03:34:39 PM »
Isn't there already an over pressure valve that would blow before the boiler let loose?
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Tex

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Re: Propane
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2011, 04:14:19 PM »
Quote from: grinderz on December 12, 2011, 03:34:39 PM
Isn't there already an over pressure valve that would blow before the boiler let loose?

All of the commercial machines I've seen have popoff valves that open ~260°F. I always wanted to put a steam whistle on mine to make sure it got my attention.
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Offline Ringo

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Re: Propane
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 05:31:55 PM »
I work with boilers at work so will be a little cautious.   My faima has a 7 liter boiler under pressure, if the boiler fails it will expand to steam instantly.  I think it like 50 times.  That is a lot of steam to burn your customers.  I understand that I am being over cautions an the risk of a failure is low but if you alter a machine and someone get hurt you will have trouble.  The picture is of the only failure I have ever seen pictures ofbut it looks scary.   
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 05:33:32 PM by Ringo »
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Offline grinderz

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Re: Propane
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 08:03:52 PM »
Wow!! KaBoom!  I wonder if the blow-off valve got too scaled up to work?
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