Behmor 1600 Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks

[johnr]

BW is not impressed with the Behmor.

Honestly, this is the first negative I've read (that I can remember) about this roaster

There are some prior negative reviews (not many) but they flew into the face of what was a massive early adopter lovefest like none other.  I did a negative review and a well known guy on HB had an ongoing thread but the times were strange man....CG had something like 7 out of 10 posts in the roasting forum about loving the Behmor. Very unpopular position not to dig it and plus you were dissing the #1 roaster that is sweeping the roasting world. I also know of one magic tongue super taster guy that set out to review it and mysteriously never came back with anything...

With that I know everybody loves this thing and I do not think a few people not liking it matters to them or their roasting so....

Here are my initial thoughts about it from another forum in Jan.


Most people that have them seem to be very happy with these roasters.

I had a chance to test drive one for a few roasts and it's not for me in the current configuration.

If they do a few things to it it might be pretty interesting.

1) Digital temp probe/display.
2) True ability to profile a roast for time & temp.
3) Ability to cool much faster at conclusion of roast cycle.
4) I think (gut feeling) moving the drum away from the elements some and adding more potential would help with several things.
5) Ability to roast all sizes of beans...this one might have been corrected already.
6) Air flow control.

Ha! things that are good for any roaster.  Grin The issue I have with this one is that work arounds are harder/impossible to pull off.

Example, a roast has not made it to second crack yet and you want to go 4 snaps it. Time is running out so you add 30 seconds. As you look inside the chamber you notice the element turn off right then. ? after 30 seconds you decide to add more time but the machine says "No" and goes into auto cooling instead.

The work around we used was to use the highest heat profile with the max weight setting and longest roast time. Then we underdosed the drum and used the door open/close to try and control the temp and profile.    That seemed to work pretty good but presented 2 issues.

1) The elements seem to do there own thing. I'm not sure if it's temp related either and might be totally a timer issue so sometimes they are going out when you would rather have them come on.

2) After the testing session I learned that opening the door is a fire hazard for flying chaff. Ooops.

A final issue is cooling. Post roast we flung open the door and blew a fan in there to conclude the roast and cool asap. Many people report good results just waiting the x min. for the drum to cool on it's own or waiting 2 min. before opening the door but eh... I'd rather cool "now". The idea of cooling the chamber that quickly has not been directly answered yet as to the thermal stress caused to the elements and possibly the electronics so it may be cool and it might crack a quartz after 100 roasts. Undecided

So with hordes of early adopters loving these little roasters I think I'm one of only 4-5 people I've seen so far that isn't as ecstatic about it just yet. People do seem to love em' up. I don't own one and they do so take that for what it's worth.
 

John F

Ok, so I've started to shift my focus a little more on technical roast correctness lately. In scouring lots of HB posts (particularly the Ken Fox ones) and other random stuff, I think I've identified the essential intermediate level [espresso] roast guidelines (for lack of a better term) and I wanted to run them past you guys for validation/correction:

1. C1 should be hit in 10-12 minutes - longer than this and you're in bake territory
2. the period between C1 and C2 should be 3.5-4 minutes in duration - shorter than this and flavor development suffers
3. beans should be cooled to room temp in 2-4 minutes - cooling more quickly than 90 seconds results in accelerated staling

Assuming these guidelines are sound, I believe each can be achieved on the Behmor provided you don't mind foregoing the profile features and using an entirely manual process. Yes, yes, I know. This totally defeats the "fire and forget" aspect of the Behmor but are the profiles really all that useful anyway? It seems temp-based profiles (or, even better, manual heat control) would be MUCH more useful than kludgy time percentage-based profiles, but that's just my unqualified opinion.

With a manual process, #1 is achieved by using max power, setting the initial time to a period longer than will be required for the total roast (I use 20:00 for log simplicity/consistency) and varying the load size such that it hits C1 in 10-12 minutes (this estimation does require some experience with the behmor and the bean but I find that 300g is a good starting point when unsure, ymmv).

#2 is achieved by opening the door and releasing heat during C1. When to open the door and for how long is open for discussion but obviously you don't want to stall C1. And again, experience with the behmor and the bean comes into play when deciding but, generally speaking, opening the door at the peak of C1 for about 10-15 seconds seems to do the trick. Fire hazard? Perhaps but I've never had one and I roast in the garage with a shopvac nearby so chaffe is a non-issue. Again, ymmv, open the door at your own risk, may void your warranty, offer not valid in Nevada, yada yada yada. #2 would obviously be a lot easier/more deterministic with temp display and heat control and I'd love to see someone do a mod for this (if I don't get to it first).

#3 can be achieved in different ways but my technique is: open the door when the cooling cycle begins, immediately remove the chaffe tray, blow air into the roast chamber with the shop vac for about a minute, then hit stop, remove the drum, and then hit the cool button again so the behmor can complete it's cooling cycle while simultaneously blowing air through the drum, further cooling the beans and blowing the remaining chaffe out. Whew. I've been reconsidering the specifics of this particular step lately but this is the cooldown I've used for a few months now. I'm no longer convinced that blowing air into the chamber actually accomplishes much, other than vacating chaffe from the chamber.

Regardless, I don't think there's anything about the behmor's design that precludes you from achieving a 2-4 minute cooldown if you don't mind "ymmv, open the door at your own risk, may void your warranty, offer not valid in Nevada, yada yada yada".

I'm very eager to hear the thoughts of people who have lots more roasting experience/knowledge than I have regarding these 'guidelines'/steps.

[staylor]

Care to elaborate at all?  I've been considering one to use as a sample roaster and would be keen to hear your thoughts.

-Stubbie

I may just be set in my ways, but the main problems that I have with it are:

1)  Lack of control:  You have 5 preprogrammed ramps that you cannot modify.  To make them work properly, you are effectively stuck with an 8-11oz batch but you need to use the 1# setting to make that work right (most of the time).  Makes it impossible to react while roasting.
2)  Poor cooling:  Takes too long to cool down between roasts.  If you follow the directions, your beans will be baking for a long time after the roast is done (when I roast with a TurboCrazy, RK Drum or Fresh Roast 8+ I immediately can drop the beans in my cooler and they are at room temperature in under a minute)
3)  Too long:  It takes too long to roast beans this way, between properly cooling down between runs and with how long it takes to ramp properly. 

I easily roast 4# an hour with a TurboCrazy, with better control, instant access without stalling, real time sampling capability, 1/3 the cost, cheap component replacement (when necessary), and no UV.

These problems are there (mostly) with the GeneCafe as well.  For most homeroasters, these might be minor annoyances, as they are not doing the volume that I usually do and probably aren't concerned with multiple back-to-back roasts.  Many people stick to a particular roast profile and batch size and repeat without putting a lot of thought into variation.  I require more versatility than I can get with a Behmor or similar roaster.  I'm sure that if I put in a lot of time with one, I would figure out some ways to cheat and make it fit my style better, but as it stands I am satisfied with what is already in my tool box.

Agreed. The reason I wouldn't be interested in this roaster is primarily point #1. But in fairness this roaster probably isn't being marketed to my needs as I look at it like a general purpose push and forget roaster.

[John F]

#1 is achieved by using max power, setting the initial time to a period longer than will be required for the total roast...

#2 is achieved by opening the door and releasing heat..

#3 can be achieved in different ways but my technique is: open the door when the cooling cycle begins, immediately remove the chaffe tray, blow air into the roast chamber..

I agree:

"The work around we used was to use the highest heat profile with the max weight setting and longest roast time. Then we underdosed the drum and used the door open/close to try and control the temp and profile. Post roast we flung open the door and blew a fan in there to conclude the roast and cool asap"


 

John F

[Charly]

Care to elaborate at all?  I've been considering one to use as a sample roaster and would be keen to hear your thoughts.

-
Agreed. The reason I wouldn't be interested in this roaster is primarily point #1. But in fairness this roaster probably isn't being marketed to my needs as I look at it like a general purpose push and forget roaster.

I bought mine as a sample roaster, and for $200 , what else is out there (off the shelf) that can do such a nice even roast on small amounts of coffee-like the little samples from importers or small batches of super pricey personal roasts of Geisha etc? I use P1, load much less than the setting, and open the door to slow 1st crack, open the door when cooling  (and remove the drum) if I think it needs to cool very fast, and I'm not bothered by wee burning chaff particles.
 I tossed the chaff screen after a couple of roasts.
 Two hundred bucks! And immediate customer service! I'd pay $200 more, gladly, if you could control the temp, but for now it beats my FR, frying pan, corn popper or RK drum for even, well developed, small batch roasts.

 Charly

[johnr]

I agree:

"The work around we used was to use the highest heat profile with the max weight setting and longest roast time. Then we underdosed the drum and used the door open/close to try and control the temp and profile. Post roast we flung open the door and blew a fan in there to conclude the roast and cool asap"


 

John F

Do you agree with the guidelines that I listed or, in my ignorance, am I trying to over-generalize something that isn't particularly easy to establish simple guidelines for? What I'm trying to get at is a sort of 'meta framework' for roasting that holds irrespective of roasting equipment, specific greens, load size, etc. Assuming such a framework exists, it should be possible to evaluate individual roasters based on how easily (or not) the guidelines can be achieved with that roaster. If the guidelines cannot be achieved at all, we might classify the roaster as useless. If the guidelines can't be achieved easily but CAN be achieved with additional effort on the part of the operator, we might classify the roaster as suboptimal but useable. Yes?

[John F]

Do you agree with the guidelines that I listed..

Not exactly...I don't think it's as easy as that to make a 123 checklist and use it as a go/no go benchmark.

I'll post your guideline and then just list a few random items that I don't agree with just to illustrate the point....


1. C1 should be hit in 10-12 minutes - longer than this and you're in bake territory
2. the period between C1 and C2 should be 3.5-4 minutes in duration - shorter than this and flavor development suffers
3. beans should be cooled to room temp in 2-4 minutes - cooling more quickly than 90 seconds results in accelerated staling


1) You can still bake coffee that hits first crack at 11min.
2) I have read some Ambex threads (I think I have anyway) that shoot for first crack at 13min as the perfect spot.
3) Altering the gap between cracks alters the cup...we can't taste all the cups out there and say something like 3.5 min gap is the best for all beans, cups, blends, etc..etc...etc..
4) "Accelerated staling"...I have never considered it.

Now there are also things to consider like different roast chambers, environments, ambient temps, types of heat, and who knows how many other factors.

Lastly there is art and science working here...it's not an easy peasy  equation as best I can tell.

John F
 

[johnr]

Excellent... just the type of feedback I was looking for.

Lastly there is art and science working here...it's not an easy peasy  equation as best I can tell.

There seems to be a dearth of art OR science resources for roasting at the intermediate level. I have a reasonable (but admittedly limited) grasp of the "how"... however my "why" knowledge is currently based on fragmentary, anecdotal and often contradictory message board content. Hey ButtWhiskers - any chance you'll be publishing that roasting book anytime soon?

[Glacier]

I've roasted about as much coffee in that last 3 years as any home roaster and probably any of the micro/Hobby-roasters in the USA.

I can say this with absolute conviction- this thing is a no brainer for anyone who wants a countertop roaster for $300 and want to produce equal to or better coffee than most of the coffee you can buy off the shelf or from a local specialty roaster.

When it comes to small sample size batches, I've never seen anything equal it outside of the Hottop roasters...especially for an off the shelf type product.

I won't get into it more than that, but for the majority of the buying public, it's a no brainer.

2 thumbs up on about everything to do with this roaster- especially the service!

[kelppaddy]

I'm using two of them at the same time.  It takes a roast or two to get a profile down for a new bean and I keep detailed notes so I can achieve duplicate results.  I've used the same cooling technique for over a hundred roasts now, and am quite satisfied with the results.  I usually hit the cool button just before 2C, open the door and pull the chaff tray out and set it to the side.  I then allow the cooling to proceed to completion with the door open.  I have to do a little additional vacuuming, but have not had anything close to a fire.

kelppaddy

[pm]

I've avoided opening the door before the recommended 1:45, but am interested to hear that others are disregarding that notice.

As a side query (and I wonder if RK might be reading this), the directional fins inside the drum are ingenious in keeping the beans from congregating to one side. I'm tempted to have my RK drum retrofitted with them in this pattern. Anybody else considered this (or done it) with their RK drum?

[harryho]

I've avoided opening the door before the recommended 1:45, but am interested to hear that others are disregarding that notice.

As a side query (and I wonder if RK might be reading this), the directional fins inside the drum are ingenious in keeping the beans from congregating to one side. I'm tempted to have my RK drum retrofitted with them in this pattern. Anybody else considered this (or done it) with their RK drum?

Don't have an RK drum, but I built my own with three spiraled stirring vanes inside.

I also built it with a sliding door feature a-la the Buzzroasters drum. It served it's purpose and had been a workhorse for me for 3+ years and thousand of pounds of beans.

[RBasow]

Any suggestions as to which profile to us for Sumatran beans?  Thanks.

[bwilson]

I use P3 for Sumatran beans.  Before hitting start I subtract time down to 16 minutes and then after hitting start go back up to 18 minutes.  I like roasting 1/2 lb on the 1 lb settings.  Gives me more flexibility.

[RBasow]

Thanks.  How do these time adjustments change the roast profile?  Does this lenthen out the middle section when it as 80% power?

[bwilson]

Subtracting time before hitting start lowers the time of the middle period.  Adding time after hitting start adds time to the final period.  So, if ya hit 1lb and P1, 18 minutes is shown in the screen.  There are 3 distinct periods to a roast so each period is 6 minutes long (3*6=18).  When time is subtracted (hitting the "-" sign) before hitting start, this time is subtracted from the middle period.  After hitting Start, if time is added to the roast (hitting the "+" sign) this time is added to the 3rd period.  Here is a great link to the Behmor site that explains this better than I can. 

http://behmor.com/troubleshooting.html