Green Coffee Buying Club

Vendor Discussion Boards => Commercial Hardware discussion => Topic started by: northwestmark on October 28, 2010, 05:27:59 PM

Title: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on October 28, 2010, 05:27:59 PM


I'll be at coffee fest tomorrow.
I might be willing to pick up an extra KONE or two if anyone is interested.
Especially if buying bulk brings down the price!
If you don't know what the KONE is than you probably don't want one.
If you do, then you know this will be the first time and place that they will be made available for purchase.

Mark
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on October 28, 2010, 05:39:06 PM
I'll be at coffee fest tomorrow.
I might be willing to pick up an extra KONE or two if anyone is interested.
Especially if buying bulk brings down the price!
If you don't know what the KONE is than you probably don't want one.
If you do, then you know this will be the first time and place that they will be made available for purchase.

Mark

If we're talking about the filter I've read about, I'd definitely be interested. PM me with the cost?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on October 28, 2010, 05:49:40 PM
They retail for $50.
I am hoping if I buy enough that I will qualify for wholesale pricing.
Wholesale is probably around $30?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Nucer on October 28, 2010, 05:50:13 PM
I too would be interested.  Let me know the price and a paypal account to pay to.  Thanks.

(this is one great filter from Benbrook, Texas)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on October 28, 2010, 06:34:55 PM
They retail for $50.
I am hoping if I buy enough that I will qualify for wholesale pricing.
Wholesale is probably around $30?

Sounds good to me!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on October 28, 2010, 06:53:51 PM
In.

Thanks, B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ecc on October 28, 2010, 06:58:26 PM
I'm in!  :notworthy: (you guys are SERIOUS about coffee toys)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on October 28, 2010, 07:06:31 PM
I'm in!  :notworthy: (you guys are SERIOUS about coffee toys)

Watch, by 8am, HeadChange will be in.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on October 28, 2010, 07:07:49 PM
A couple things...
1. I need everyone to tell me if they would still be interested in one in if is at retail cost. I'm trying for wholesale, but no guarantee.
2. Shipping will be $11 on top of the price.
3. If you want to buy some greens from me at the same time, it would be an easy way to not pay extra shipping. And it would support me.



Mark
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on October 28, 2010, 07:12:09 PM
Where's Larry? I'm sure he would be in!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on October 28, 2010, 07:13:29 PM
A couple things...
1. I need everyone to tell me if they would still be interested in one in if is at retail cost. I'm trying for wholesale, but no guarantee.
2. Shipping will be $11 on top of the price.
...

Fine.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on October 28, 2010, 07:21:54 PM
PS. I've used one at Coava in Portland before and I had lunch with Samuel from Keffa Coffee today and he had one on him.
The KONE is great. Eliminates the paper and paper taste. Good 3 minute extractions. It allows nearly the body of a french press + the acidity and briskness of a pourover/chemex, no sediment and no paper taste. I think it could be my newest favorite way to brew coffee.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on October 28, 2010, 07:24:43 PM
... I think it could be my newest favorite way to brew coffee.

You know, it has been 6 months since we went on a rip over pourovers.  We are way, way overdue for a new fav' way to prepare the bean.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ecc on October 28, 2010, 08:15:09 PM
I'm still in, and have no problem combining shipping on some of your greens.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on October 29, 2010, 04:56:26 AM
Me too please.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on October 29, 2010, 04:57:10 AM
I'm in!  :notworthy: (you guys are SERIOUS about coffee toys)

Watch, by 8am, HeadChange will be in.

B|Java

7:55 am. Just under the wire. :P





(I have become so predictable)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: jspain on October 29, 2010, 05:16:58 AM
Mark,

I'm like a Jason, a bit late to the table, but count me in on a Kone. I may be interested in some greens? I'm going through a ton of decaf. Got a good decaf? I'll need to order decaf in the next week.  Thanks,  Jim
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Nucer on October 29, 2010, 06:46:55 AM
I am in at retail or discount.

(getting excited in Benbrook, Texas)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on October 29, 2010, 08:22:57 AM
any more takers? I'm going to try and purchase around 12 at this point unless I hear from a bunch more people this morning.

Mark
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on October 29, 2010, 08:23:16 AM
Shannon,

I got your request.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on October 29, 2010, 05:58:46 PM
well....let's just say getting ahold of a KONE is harder than it sounds.
I hung out with Keith (from Coava) for about 30-45 minutes at roustabout's (Edwin Martinez's) stand demonstrating a KONE, but there wasn't enough at the show for anyone to buy one. I ran some of my guatemala el injerto direct trade through the KONE about 8 times during the show. Definately a learning curve to get it dialed in. But very rewarding cup when done right.
So the KONE idea is probably off for at least a week or so...
I've got a few ideas for the future though.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on October 29, 2010, 07:49:32 PM
I'm in for the long haul. :)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on October 29, 2010, 08:11:02 PM
I'm in for the long haul. :)

Now there is a surprise <wide grin>

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on October 31, 2010, 07:18:55 PM
...
I've got a few ideas for the future though.

He is looking for wholesalers.   I think Kuma K-ones would be kinda kool.  Have your logo branded right on them.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 01, 2010, 09:43:11 AM
update-

Option #1: Buy individually. The KONE is supposed to go live on Coava's new website at some point today. The new website hasn't launched yet, but keep an eye out. They will be $50/each + shipping from their website. That might be nearly $60 total! A little to much moola I think.

Option #2: Buy wholesale direct. As far as wholesaling goes, I got some lame figure of if I bought 40 of them they would sell me them for $40/each. Still sounds a little high IMO.

Option #3: Wholesale through Roustabout. Edwin Martinez of Roustabout will be selling them. He may be willing to do a hybrid option where he sells them to us for $40 individually (at wholesale rates) if we buy a certain amount in total.

Mark
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 01, 2010, 10:06:04 AM
Sounds like Coava is a mite too proud of their product? I wish them well, but I'll pass.

Thanks anyway Mark! 8)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Pyment on November 01, 2010, 10:59:13 AM
Now, if you can find a deal on those Hario Kettles.  ::)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 02, 2010, 07:27:55 PM
Mark thanks for all the support.

Nice to see you at Coffee Fest Seattle.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 03, 2010, 01:34:11 AM
Just so everyone is aware as of yet we do not have a group discount negotiated for this. In order to maintain the credibility of our forums if this product doesn't result in a discount to our members it should be moved to a vendor or hardware forum. If any product manufacturer can't see what quite a few other manufacturers and companies have realized as far as our support and what that means....well then they shouldn't benefit from any buzz that might be created from our forums.


so my recommendation is that Coave KONE figure out if they would really like our support see this forum Newco (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=1298.0)

Of which I think when everything was said and done and our discount had been promoted not only here but at CG, Alt. etc... we had sold thousands of units for Newco. As of today when I call Newco I buy everything at their highest discount, I was told by their sales people that we have sold more units than any of their accounts.

If not then I will move this to the vendor or hardware forum were this would be more appropriate, Coava has a day to let me know if they would like to offer a group discount.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: mp on November 03, 2010, 06:20:58 AM
Yo GO GI JOE!

 ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 03, 2010, 06:58:01 AM
Of which I think when everything was said and done and our discount had been promoted not only here but at CG, Alt. etc... we had sold thousands of units for Newco.  of today when I call Newco I buy everything at their highest discount, I was told by their sales people that we have sold more units than any of their accounts.

We have never really stuck up for ourselves like this before...

I like it.  8)

Paying full retail $50 plus $11 shipping for a x ounce filter does not really represent the idea of a group coming together to consolidate our buying power "splitting bags" if you will, at all.

I've got nothing against this filter or the vendor but I have to agree with Joe 100% on this one. $61 for a mesh filter looks way high for a group buy.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 03, 2010, 07:14:35 AM
I agree with Joe. I'm quite sure that offering a few at a discount would go a long way in getting the word out on such a new product and result in even more sales on down the road.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 03, 2010, 07:27:06 AM
Thank you to everyone for the love and support of the "cone project" now known as the kone.

I wanted to clear a few things up. I am sorry for any miscommunication or misleading statements on this forum.

The "price". Please remember that the filter is entirely made in the USA. This means that even the stainless is sourced here including all labor. This is a choice by Matt and I. We feel it very important to have this done for many reasons.

We are all about community. Because of our community of friends who support what we do and interested in purchasing a filter we looked in to see if we could. Because of the high cost of our decision for US made it determines a few things including retail. For all transparency the first run which we use in house was so expensive we thought it was impossible to make the filters and sell them either retail and for sure not wholesale.

As I believe in support of community I do also believe in the community supporting others. Again thank you for all the support.

As far as comments in any way thinking that I am looking to sell thousands and that my company is somehow a large company with endless pockets please remember we are not. My only reason for stating this is to remind people reality and fact. I have to order these filters by the thousand. I have to pay for all of them right away. If this project to continue at all I need the support of my community or it will die.

If you want to chat with me directly about this project and what it means to me please contact me directly at keith@coavacoffee.com and I will answer any and all questions.



DISCOUNT CODE!!!!!!
With all this said I want to honor your commitment to support.

Mark at Kuma thought it would be cool to offer the members on the forum a discount code for the kone as a promotion. Thanks for the great idea Mark.

20% off discount code = gcbc
gcbc stands for Green Coffee Buying Club

This will be asked for on the second page of the shopping cart. The code will last one week ending on November 11th.

Again I thank everyone for the support along the way. Without you this would not be possible.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Ascholten on November 03, 2010, 07:53:03 AM
Im not trying to be an ass but, what grade stainless are these.   I don't see a use at this point for one of these for my pathetic means of making coffee BUT I have a few other projects in mind that they might work awesome for.

Not to mention since you were so honest and forthcoming I wish to support you some way if I can.

Aaron
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: garybt3 on November 03, 2010, 07:53:33 AM
Just purchased this from their website, with gcbc 20% discount.

Looking forward to brewing with it, as I use a Chemex teamed up with a Norelco Ready Brew (1970 -1980's machine) brewer. (NIB $5. @ yard sales) I threw the Norelco Carafe's in the recycling bin.

I have 1 setup @ home & another setup @ my office @ work.

I spend more than $60. on Chemex filters; $9. per box of 100; FC-100 white circular a year, so having one @ home makes perfect sense to me.

Another coffee 'toy' purchase on my CC...Mrs. T is going to hotcard me one of these days... ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 03, 2010, 08:00:04 AM
Good morning gentleman!
Keith at Coava has generously offered a discount code for all members of the site.
Simply use code "GCBC" at checkout to save yourself 20% .
Keith's costs on this project are very high and he is doing us a real favor in passing along the discount shown above.
Please post a reply below when you've used the code and purchased a KONE so we can keep track of how many people are getting in on the deal.
Let's support Keith and this project. He had to commit to a 1,000 KONES up front. I got to use them at coffeefest and really enjoy the cup of coffee it produces!

Mark Barany
Kuma Coffee
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 03, 2010, 08:01:35 AM
Just purchased this from their website, with gcbc 20% discount.


+1.

I appreciate the stand-up way this was cleared up, the transparency, the US-made product (yes!) when it could have been off-shored, and supporting a small shop.  Order up.

Now, where is that Chemex?  Did I give it to the Prussian Prince on Halloween?  Is that what he was asking the Czarina for?

B|Java

(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0057/2942/products/coavakone3_large.jpg?1287936058)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 03, 2010, 08:05:21 AM
I suspect a thousand will go quick.  Maybe not all here ;D but so many folks at coffee fest were wanting to buy one there and couldn't.

I just bought one.  FYI with the discount and shipping it's under $48.  It probably would have been about that same amount if it had been distributed through the club with paypal fees and USPS shipping rates.

New toy-a-comin' 8)

I plan to use it with my Bodum Bistro

(http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9296.0;attach=7470;image)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 03, 2010, 08:09:12 AM
+1 for me too!

Thanks so much Keith. Can't wait to share the KONE with clients and customers and to use if at home in my chemex!

FYI- The discount code is only good for one week. So don't delay too long on the offer!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 03, 2010, 08:13:20 AM
Just ordered mine.  Thanks Keith.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 03, 2010, 08:15:32 AM
Here's a new article on Coava's KONE that was just released today.
http://marrowmag.com/coffee/coava-iconic-kone-coffee-filter/ (http://marrowmag.com/coffee/coava-iconic-kone-coffee-filter/)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: J.Jirehs Roaster on November 03, 2010, 08:25:32 AM
looks like a good idea.. makes me want to take my ceramic pour over project back out for review...
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 03, 2010, 08:45:37 AM
A preemptive thread on the usage of the newly released Coava KONE. Please post any basic usage instructions, tips, and tricks in this thread.



Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Stubbie on November 03, 2010, 09:25:05 AM
Couldn't resist...got one on the way!

-Stubbie
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 03, 2010, 10:29:41 AM
Being on a budget, I'm stopping to ask a question before pulling the trigger;

Mark, Larry, Keith, or anyone who's seen the Kone in operation and tasted the cup...

How does the end result differ from a press-pot?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ecc on November 03, 2010, 10:56:21 AM
In again!  The no paper, no full-immersion, one atmosphere pressure combo is unique!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 03, 2010, 11:03:27 AM
Peter,

The KONE provides a wonderful combination of body that nears that of a french press, but allows a lot more of the acidity of the coffee to shine through without any of the oils being lost. It is designed to allow some fine grinds through, but not sludgy sediment like you'd get in a press.

Mark
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 03, 2010, 11:09:28 AM
Peter,

The KONE provides a wonderful combination of body that nears that of a french press, but allows a lot more of the acidity of the coffee to shine through without any of the oils being lost. It is designed to allow some fine grinds through, but not sludgy sediment like you'd get in a press.

Mark

So basically a Swiss Gold filter? only made from stainless steel and priced about 3 times as much?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 03, 2010, 11:18:49 AM
Does a Swiss gold filter produce a similar body as a French press?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Does a Swiss gold filter produce a similar body as a French press?

Also, I believe the SG filter allows a too-fast flow.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 03, 2010, 11:33:34 AM
Does a Swiss gold filter produce a similar body as a French press?

Also, I believe the SG filter allows a too-fast flow.

1.yes
2. no

Just look at that cone what do you think Logically can make the flow any slower than a swiss gold? Is that even something that they say it does?

Peter- I have the exact opposite problem with my swiss gold filters Paper filters flow much faster in my coffee makers. I have to leave my caraf in my newco about 20 seconds after the brewing stops, where as with the paper filter when it beeps its done.

I don't see anything from this product that would lead me to believe there is anything unique that isn't in a swiss gold filter already, other than it has a pointy end and it looks like you might be able to buy a specific caraf that it fits in. I don't even want to guess how much that handblown in the USA glass caraf would cost.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: YasBean on November 03, 2010, 11:34:02 AM
Is this for the 1-3 cup Chemex? ($25.68 at Amazon)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 03, 2010, 12:11:02 PM
Good question. Maybe Keith can answer some questions tonight when he's off of work. I plan on using the Kone with my 8 cup chemex. I think Keith can probably address how his kone differs from a gold cone filter since he experimented with multiple ways to do brew coffee but wasn't happy with any of them.

Mark
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 03, 2010, 01:18:35 PM
Good question. Maybe Keith can answer some questions tonight when he's off of work. I plan on using the Kone with my 8 cup chemex. I think Keith can probably address how his kone differs from a gold cone filter since he experimented with multiple ways to do brew coffee but wasn't happy with any of them.

Mark

Ahh I see the 8 cup version has the proper filter holder. At least you can pick up a chemex for $36  ;)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 03, 2010, 01:49:47 PM
Good question. Maybe Keith can answer some questions tonight when he's off of work. I plan on using the Kone with my 8 cup chemex. I think Keith can probably address how his kone differs from a gold cone filter since he experimented with multiple ways to do brew coffee but wasn't happy with any of them.

Mark

Ahh I see the 8 cup version has the proper filter holder. At least you can pick up a chemex for $36  ;)

What makes you so set against this thing, without having tried it?  Those who have seem to think it's worthwhile.  But you're willing to poo-poo right off the bat. 
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 03, 2010, 01:52:14 PM
Good question. Maybe Keith can answer some questions tonight when he's off of work. I plan on using the Kone with my 8 cup chemex. I think Keith can probably address how his kone differs from a gold cone filter since he experimented with multiple ways to do brew coffee but wasn't happy with any of them.

Mark

Ahh I see the 8 cup version has the proper filter holder. At least you can pick up a chemex for $36  ;)

What makes you so set against this thing, without having tried it?  Those who have seem to think it's worthwhile.  But you're willing to poo-poo right off the bat. 

It's very simple Peter, ready?.....$50 for a piece of bent foil. I don't care if it's made by monks at the top of Mt. Everest I don't see how a cone of metal should be more than $10
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 03, 2010, 01:59:32 PM
Good question. Maybe Keith can answer some questions tonight when he's off of work. I plan on using the Kone with my 8 cup chemex. I think Keith can probably address how his kone differs from a gold cone filter since he experimented with multiple ways to do brew coffee but wasn't happy with any of them.

Mark

Ahh I see the 8 cup version has the proper filter holder. At least you can pick up a chemex for $36  ;)

What makes you so set against this thing, without having tried it?  Those who have seem to think it's worthwhile.  But you're willing to poo-poo right off the bat. 

It's very simple Peter, ready?.....$50 for a piece of bent foil. I don't care if it's made by monks at the top of Mt. Everest I don't see how a cone of metal should be more than $10

The dude explained in a very forthright manner what his manufacturing costs are and with our discount he's not banking much if anything.  Just because you think it's a piece of bent foil and shouldn't cost more than $10, doesn't mean a thing.

So, you're against this thing because you feel people are being scammed.  That's very valiant of you, protector of the poor masses who are all to willing to open their wallets.

But...  if the guys costs are genuine (and you should be at least a wee bit appreciative that he's wanting to produce it here and not in China) and it produces a better cup, why not let the Kone stand on it's own merit and not be Mr. Negative?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 03, 2010, 02:05:08 PM
Good question. Maybe Keith can answer some questions tonight when he's off of work. I plan on using the Kone with my 8 cup chemex. I think Keith can probably address how his kone differs from a gold cone filter since he experimented with multiple ways to do brew coffee but wasn't happy with any of them.

Mark

Ahh I see the 8 cup version has the proper filter holder. At least you can pick up a chemex for $36  ;)

What makes you so set against this thing, without having tried it?  Those who have seem to think it's worthwhile.  But you're willing to poo-poo right off the bat. 

It's very simple Peter, ready?.....$50 for a piece of bent foil. I don't care if it's made by monks at the top of Mt. Everest I don't see how a cone of metal should be more than $10

The dude explained in a very forthright manner what his manufacturing costs are and with our discount he's not banking much if anything.  Just because you think it's a piece of bent foil and shouldn't cost more than $10, doesn't mean a thing.

So, you're against this thing because you feel people are being scammed.  That's very valiant of you, protector of the poor masses who are all to willing to open their wallets.

But...  if the guys costs are genuine (and you should be at least a wee bit appreciative that he's wanting to produce it here and not in China) and it produces a better cup, why not let the Kone stand on it's own merit and not be Mr. Negative?

I don't care if it's the best pour over ever made - $50 is a lot to spend for something that's going to be at best, only marginally better than my $3 Melitta pour over. Of course, I think all of your pour over guys are nuts anyway - espresso is the only way to make real coffee! ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 03, 2010, 02:13:13 PM
$50 may seem like a lot, but think of the possibilities

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuH0CrqGOuXmSxGsokKGAFstvSyrPUqudevMCidjUQMjFHf6s&t=1&usg=__GM1wOAz3oxTz4s_Sr2Ob3XhHRb8=)(http://www.getprice.com.au/images/uploadimg/1266/350_green-foil-hat.jpg)(http://www.luxurylaunches.com/entry_images/0507/13/1-million-ice-cream-cone.jpg)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: mp on November 03, 2010, 02:14:33 PM
Good question. Maybe Keith can answer some questions tonight when he's off of work. I plan on using the Kone with my 8 cup chemex. I think Keith can probably address how his kone differs from a gold cone filter since he experimented with multiple ways to do brew coffee but wasn't happy with any of them.

Mark

Ahh I see the 8 cup version has the proper filter holder. At least you can pick up a chemex for $36  ;)

What makes you so set against this thing, without having tried it?  Those who have seem to think it's worthwhile.  But you're willing to poo-poo right off the bat.  

It's very simple Peter, ready?.....$50 for a piece of bent foil. I don't care if it's made by monks at the top of Mt. Everest I don't see how a cone of metal should be more than $10

The dude explained in a very forthright manner what his manufacturing costs are and with our discount he's not banking much if anything.  Just because you think it's a piece of bent foil and shouldn't cost more than $10, doesn't mean a thing.

So, you're against this thing because you feel people are being scammed.  That's very valiant of you, protector of the poor masses who are all to willing to open their wallets.

But...  if the guys costs are genuine (and you should be at least a wee bit appreciative that he's wanting to produce it here and not in China) and it produces a better cup, why not let the Kone stand on it's own merit and not be Mr. Negative?

I don't care if it's the best pour over ever made - $50 is a lot to spend for something that's going to be at best, only marginally better than my $3 Melitta pour over. Of course, I think all of your pour over guys are nuts anyway - espresso is the only way to make real coffee! ;D

Robert ... when you're right ... YOU ARE RIGHT!

 ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 03, 2010, 02:16:20 PM
Peter,

  First off my questions are sincere- Let me know what the differences are from a swiss gold filter other than the metal composition.

But,

  Are you saying it costs even $25 to make that!!!? I definitely think there is a significant mark up. I'm sorry but I'm not buying the well developed website creds for his product. Let me know in 2 years if you are still using the "KONE" and how much it changed your life, maybe by then the manufacturing costs will be further along. But don't ask me to be the guinea pig, or to champion something that has already been invented at 3 times the price. Who am I? I am just one voice, I don't even like the much beloved Aeropress ($25) In fact I sold mine to Chad, just give me a pour over and a paper filter and I am happy.

As far as the Forthright part. OK 2 problems with all that for me:

1. First I read one of his replies to the fact that he doesn't want to make and sell thousands of his product....come on? really? so you make a website, talk about special coffee shops that use your special cone filter, etc.. But you don't want to sell them? Ohh yeah and our guy met him at .....a coffee fest in Seattle where the whole point is to "sell". Doesn't sound forth right

2. Next, he capitulates and says ok I will give you the coffee filters for this week only at the price that we were supposed to get them for anyways!? Of course with $11! Shipping bill tacked on.

My Original Swiss gold filter was a stainless version that was made for Starbucks Barista Aroma brewers it cost all of $10 it was probably made in China not Switzerland even though it says SWISS all over it.

Again if your finances can afford the newest coffee toy that costs $50(for a filter) and requires that you have a $35 coffee maker as well for a manual coffee maker, God Bless you. For me I'll stick to my Newco and Swiss Gold and maybe a pour over, or maybe I'll pick up an old Vacpot. Really there are just too many other ways to brew a good cup of coffee for me to be interested in this.

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: mp on November 03, 2010, 02:23:57 PM
Even though you're making a lot of sense Joe ... coffee toy must haves are an addiction.  No reason will justify someone not spending money on a new coffee toy that they can claim to be the first on the block with.

As tex said ... I'll stick with my espresso with a cappuccino and drip thrown in here and there for good measure.

My 2 cents.

 :)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 03, 2010, 02:25:14 PM
Even though you're making a lot of sense Joe ... coffee toy must haves are an addiction.  No reason will justify someone not spending money on a new coffee toy that they can claim to be the first on the block with.

As tex said ... I'll stick with my espresso with a cappuccino and drip thrown in here and there for good measure.

My 2 cents.

 :)

That's Exactly what I am saying. Addicted to Oil and coffee Oil ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 03, 2010, 02:26:29 PM
I don't care if it's the best pour over ever made - $50 is a lot to spend for something that's going to be at best, only marginally better than my $3 Melitta pour over. Of course, I think all of your pour over guys are nuts anyway - espresso is the only way to make real coffee! ;D

It all depends on how often a person uses a pourover, which paper filters they use, and what those filters cost.  A regular pourover user can spend $50 a year in paper.

Peter,

  First off my questions are sincere- Let me know what the differences are from a swiss gold filter other than the metal composition.

I am hoping along with you, that this question will be answered.

 Are you saying it costs even $25 to make that!!!? I definitely think there is a significant mark up. I'm sorry but I'm not buying the well developed website creds for his product. Let me know in 2 years if you are still using the "KONE" and how much it changed your life, maybe by then the manufacturing costs will be further along. But don't ask me to be the guinea pig, or to champion something that has already been invented at 3 times the price.

So tell us what your metal fabricating background is, and what experience you have that would lead you to believe it can be made for less than $25.

Nobody is asking you to be a guinea pig, or champion anything BTW.  I was only wondering why you seemed so opposed to it.

Really there are just too many other ways to brew a good cup of coffee for me to be interested in this.


We get that you're not interested.  But didn't understand why you were so ready to throw mud on the idea.  Now we know; you don't think it costs that much to make and think it's overpriced.  
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 03, 2010, 02:30:25 PM
Hey guys,

To me it is very interesting that the cost is still an issue even after I extended a promo code for you. I actually have spoken to multiple people who want me to RAISE my retail price. They think it is too low. Its because for me to even offer it wholesale then they would want to charge around $60 to get a good return. Let me explain in more detail for those who think its just bent metal.

It is stainless steel that is of high quality and sourced here in the USA, from OHIO to be exact. The hole pattern first had to be drawn by an engineer in CAD. The slope of the cone also had to be drawn. I guess this was not too difficult for the engineer but none the less had to be done. The hardest part of the engineering process was getting the outer shape correct to allow proper forming and welding. Now moving on to creating the holes. These are not just perforated holes punch out. The filters are photochemically etched. They are actually cone shaped also. This means the holes are smaller on the inside than that on the outside. I also have gone through 8 different hole patterns to find what I thought to be a good flow rate. Yes the amount of holes greatly changes the flow rate. This would be one note of how it is different than the gold filters out there already. Next is forming and welding. After the flat patterns are made they are sent to the welder. Here they had to custom make a forming tool to proper shape the filters to the exact radius that was speced out to fit properly in a chemex. The welds are laser welded. The cost to form and weld is just as much to have the flat patterns cut. So after all these hands to make the filter paying high USA labor the cost IMO is totally valid.

To answer more questions about this just being a stainless swiss gold. I hope it stands alone and is very clear that it is different. My main point is the shape. It is truly a perfect cone. I feel this changes the brewing dynamic. I also stand behind the hole pattern and feel it makes a great cup of coffee. As I have said before I made it simply for me to use. The only reason why the filter is now a true "product" is because people wanted it. I am just honored and so happy when people like the idea of it and best of all like the coffee it can produce.

For brewing tips:
We use 25 to 30 grams of coffee - probably a finer grind then you currently use for paper
Pour 100 grams of water for 15-20 seconds. let bloom rest until the 45-1:00 mark
Then pour an additional 300 grams of water and finish your pour at 1:45-2:15 for a total extraction of 2:30 - 3:30 minutes

I suggest using a chemex. It fits in all 6, 8 and 10 cup chemex makers. The small baby chemex that requires special filters has a completely different shape top. I designed the slope specifically for the 8 cup but we use the 6 cup in store FYI.

When using our guidelines it makes more then that needed for a cup of coffee. Be gentle a pour from your chemex into your cup right away. Leave the remaining 2 ounces or so. The drip time and natural shape of the chemex has no held back most of any sediment/particles that the filter has allowed through.

I hope this clears more things up and answers more questions.

Best regards,
Keith
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 03, 2010, 02:42:02 PM
Peter,

  First off my questions are sincere- Let me know what the differences are from a swiss gold filter other than the metal composition.

But,

  Are you saying it costs even $25 to make that!!!? I definitely think there is a significant mark up. I'm sorry but I'm not buying the well developed website creds for his product. Let me know in 2 years if you are still using the "KONE" and how much it changed your life, maybe by then the manufacturing costs will be further along. But don't ask me to be the guinea pig, or to champion something that has already been invented at 3 times the price. Who am I? I am just one voice, I don't even like the much beloved Aeropress ($25) In fact I sold mine to Chad, just give me a pour over and a paper filter and I am happy.

As far as the Forthright part. OK 2 problems with all that for me:

1. First I read one of his replies to the fact that he doesn't want to make and sell thousands of his product....come on? really? so you make a website, talk about special coffee shops that use your special cone filter, etc.. But you don't want to sell them? Ohh yeah and our guy met him at .....a coffee fest in Seattle where the whole point is to "sell". Doesn't sound forth right

2. Next, he capitulates and says ok I will give you the coffee filters for this week only at the price that we were supposed to get them for anyways!? Of course with $11! Shipping bill tacked on.

My Original Swiss gold filter was a stainless version that was made for Starbucks Barista Aroma brewers it cost all of $10 it was probably made in China not Switzerland even though it says SWISS all over it.

Again if your finances can afford the newest coffee toy that costs $50(for a filter) and requires that you have a $35 coffee maker as well for a manual coffee maker, God Bless you. For me I'll stick to my Newco and Swiss Gold and maybe a pour over, or maybe I'll pick up an old Vacpot. Really there are just too many other ways to brew a good cup of coffee for me to be interested in this.



Joe,

To address your concerns on who I am as a person. I am sorry you feel this way towards me. Have we met? I would love to and I think you might realize a few things about me and possibly your judge of character in people. I think you might have to think twice about that old saying don't judge a book by its cover.

YES it does cost $25 dollars to make!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are exactly right. I told you it is made in the USA! Ok settles that one hopefully. Now you ll know how much its cost me. Hopefully I am now being as transparent as possible which most "companies" would NEVER do. But I am just a 26 year old who LOVES coffee. I am not trying to scam you in any way. I just made something I thought was a good idea and wanted to experiment with.

Ok now for selling thousands. It is true. I don't want to sell thousands. I would very much love to pay back all the money I have invested into it. OK more transparency. $20,000 dollars is into this project. One prototype I made cost me 1,200 alone due to the extensive engineering for the hole pattern. Maybe I got scammed there? You tell me.

Selling them. I made them because some coffee bars we interested in using them and possibly selling them also. I thought it be an ok idea. So I had 1,000 filters made. Taking all risk, no banks and no loans all risk on me. Sorry for feeling upset but I do now at this point.

Why at coffee fest? Edwin is a good friend of mine. I was a roaster at Victrola and roasted his finca vista hermosa. I was asked by him to participate. It was supposed to be fun and release the kone officially. I honestly have no idea the direction of this project. If people love it but dont want to support it for the cost then it will honestly die. Why die? Because I cant afford $25,000 to produce filters that you claim to be too expensive and of no merit.

Shipping. I JUST launched the site. My company is so small. We ship nothing. They haven't given me any discounts yet. I apologize if you think shipping is too high. This seems to be a consistent complaint with people buying things online. I will work on better shipping rates as soon as I can.


Again I am sorry if I come across as upset. I feel personally offended here. Its something I made for fun and for the love of coffee.

Please remember that.

Best,
Keith
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 03, 2010, 02:45:59 PM
So tell us what your metal fabricating background is, and what experience you have that would lead you to believe it can be made for less than $25.
Don't be silly Peter, anyone can look at anything else comparable and compare costs. Plus this guy isn't LAZER welding them in his garage.


Nobody is asking you to be a guinea pig, or champion anything BTW.  I was only wondering why you seemed so opposed to it.

No but it was billed as a group buy which later turned into a group discount. At $50+ you're a guinea pig.


We get that you're not interested.  But didn't understand why you were so ready to throw mud on the idea.  Now we know; you don't think it costs that much to make and think it's overpriced.  

Basically, But it's more complicated. I don't give a crap how much it costs...remember I said "I don't care if it's made by monks in Mt. Everest" It comes down to realistic expectations for something, I see a lot of promotion for this going on trying to pump sales and at not enough of a discount. So I feel as if its within my rights to say a lot of this doesn't make sense.
1. It looks like a swiss gold filter made of stainless steel, except it has a sharp point and no plastic at all.
2. I'm not trying to throw mud on it, I am basically saying- Slow down everyone, this is not only the deal we thought we were getting but it might not even be a deal at all. Wholesale was supposed to be $30 it's now $50. Worse off it might just be a swiss gold filter for a chemex.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 03, 2010, 03:03:00 PM

Joe,

To address your concerns on who I am as a person. I am sorry you feel this way towards me. Have we met? I would love to and I think you might realize a few things about me and possibly your judge of character in people. I think you might have to think twice about that old saying don't judge a book by its cover.

YES it does cost $25 dollars to make!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are exactly right. I told you it is made in the USA! Ok settles that one hopefully. Now you ll know how much its cost me. Hopefully I am now being as transparent as possible which most "companies" would NEVER do. But I am just a 26 year old who LOVES coffee. I am not trying to scam you in any way. I just made something I thought was a good idea and wanted to experiment with.

Ok now for selling thousands. It is true. I don't want to sell thousands. I would very much love to pay back all the money I have invested into it. OK more transparency. $20,000 dollars is into this project. One prototype I made cost me 1,200 alone due to the extensive engineering for the hole pattern. Maybe I got scammed there? You tell me.

Selling them. I made them because some coffee bars we interested in using them and possibly selling them also. I thought it be an ok idea. So I had 1,000 filters made. Taking all risk, no banks and no loans all risk on me. Sorry for feeling upset but I do now at this point.

Why at coffee fest? Edwin is a good friend of mine. I was a roaster at Victrola and roasted his finca vista hermosa. I was asked by him to participate. It was supposed to be fun and release the kone officially. I honestly have no idea the direction of this project. If people love it but dont want to support it for the cost then it will honestly die. Why die? Because I cant afford $25,000 to produce filters that you claim to be too expensive and of no merit.

Shipping. I JUST launched the site. My company is so small. We ship nothing. They haven't given me any discounts yet. I apologize if you think shipping is too high. This seems to be a consistent complaint with people buying things online. I will work on better shipping rates as soon as I can.


Again I am sorry if I come across as upset. I feel personally offended here. Its something I made for fun and for the love of coffee.

Please remember that.

Best,
Keith

Keith,

You made a product, you are trying to sell a product. I believe you have invested $20k on something that you wanted to do as a hobby? Perhaps costs became more than you anticipated, but lets be real if this takes off, that's more in line with what you had in mind.

 I am not trying to be offensive we are a community of people who most have known for quite a long time, when you're in you're in but there is a little distrust from me when someone joins and is mainly here to sell something. It's distrust and you have to know that. I get that your company is small, that you're young, and that you have a lot of money riding on the success of the K-Cone. Again I am not trying to offend but I am trying to get as you call it "transparency".
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 03, 2010, 03:07:00 PM
snipped

Its something I made for fun and for the love of coffee.

Please remember that.

Best,
Keith

No good deed goes unpunished Keith. We're spoiled; we get great coffee on the cheap, we get group prices on cool coffee gear, and we buy and sell among ourselves at near-cost. $50 isn't too much for a great pour over filter, unless you think pour over is overrated in the first place. But for what it says it can do, it's not a bad price.

Now I'm wondering if you're going to transfer the technology to espresso machines, which is where real coffee is made? 8)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 03, 2010, 03:14:45 PM

Joe,

To address your concerns on who I am as a person. I am sorry you feel this way towards me. Have we met? I would love to and I think you might realize a few things about me and possibly your judge of character in people. I think you might have to think twice about that old saying don't judge a book by its cover.

YES it does cost $25 dollars to make!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are exactly right. I told you it is made in the USA! Ok settles that one hopefully. Now you ll know how much its cost me. Hopefully I am now being as transparent as possible which most "companies" would NEVER do. But I am just a 26 year old who LOVES coffee. I am not trying to scam you in any way. I just made something I thought was a good idea and wanted to experiment with.

Ok now for selling thousands. It is true. I don't want to sell thousands. I would very much love to pay back all the money I have invested into it. OK more transparency. $20,000 dollars is into this project. One prototype I made cost me 1,200 alone due to the extensive engineering for the hole pattern. Maybe I got scammed there? You tell me.

Selling them. I made them because some coffee bars we interested in using them and possibly selling them also. I thought it be an ok idea. So I had 1,000 filters made. Taking all risk, no banks and no loans all risk on me. Sorry for feeling upset but I do now at this point.

Why at coffee fest? Edwin is a good friend of mine. I was a roaster at Victrola and roasted his finca vista hermosa. I was asked by him to participate. It was supposed to be fun and release the kone officially. I honestly have no idea the direction of this project. If people love it but dont want to support it for the cost then it will honestly die. Why die? Because I cant afford $25,000 to produce filters that you claim to be too expensive and of no merit.

Shipping. I JUST launched the site. My company is so small. We ship nothing. They haven't given me any discounts yet. I apologize if you think shipping is too high. This seems to be a consistent complaint with people buying things online. I will work on better shipping rates as soon as I can.


Again I am sorry if I come across as upset. I feel personally offended here. Its something I made for fun and for the love of coffee.

Please remember that.

Best,
Keith

Keith,

You made a product, you are trying to sell a product. I believe you have invested $20k on something that you wanted to do as a hobby? Perhaps costs became more than you anticipated, but lets be real if this takes off, that's more in line with what you had in mind.

 I am not trying to be offensive we are a community of people who most have known for quite a long time, when you're in you're in but there is a little distrust from me when someone joins and is mainly here to sell something. It's distrust and you have to know that. I get that your company is small, that you're young, and that you have a lot of money riding on the success of the K-Cone. Again I am not trying to offend but I am trying to get as you call it "transparency".
Joe,

I joined earlier this year when Coava was getting started because we were looking for green. Not to sell. I only posted because I felt my voice was needed as I said in my very first post regarding the filter.

I never intended to sell the filters. NEVER. Honestly! Ask anyone.

The ones we use at Coava cost us 45 dollars each to make. Yup!

So we never thought it was able to be produced at any lower amount and could never be a product to sell. Well because of some coffee business who should interest,... they approached me not me to them because I never thought I could sell it. Then I called the people who made the small run and asked what if I made 1000. Price lowered enough. I offered it to coffee bars at only a small few dollar mark up and now they can either use it in their shop or resell it. The $50 price tag is to allow the coffee bar owner to resell it and make money on their investment if they wish. My goal was to always be at the $40 mark. This is only possible if only I am selling them. Well this might ended up being the case if too many people see it not being worth $50.

Please do not tell me or on a forum in front of your audience that I made this to make money. That is rude and offensive to me.

I started my coffee roasting business to roast coffee and make coffee because I love it. Did I make it to make money. Well I guess that comes with a business Joe.

The cone project was simply just an experiment that started with me and the help of my friend. And for some odd reason I like it and others do as well. We are coffee nerds.

This crazy thread was my greatest fear of releasing this as a "product". I cant believe people out there like you exist and feel it ok to post things as you have about me. I once again challenge you to meet me before posting anything else negative about me.

My email is keith@coavacoffee.com . I will give you my cell and we can have a heart to heart if you like. If you do not call I find it not acceptable to post your personal opinion about me as a person and my motives.

Once again thanks for everyone time and support. Without you this would not be possible.

Keith
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Ascholten on November 03, 2010, 03:19:13 PM
Let me add a few thoughts here.

A swiss gold can be made to drop as fast, or as slow as one wants by changing the coarseness of the grind.  This one is a funnel, the swiss gold, a bit... flatter of a funnel.  Being stainless, I would think this one might be a bit more durable than a SG, because the gauge of the metal appears thicker.

It might not be much different than a swiss gold but it 'is' something different.   How many people shoveled out a few hundred bucks for an RK drum when they were making them?  All that is is some steel welded into a tube shape with ends on it, not very sophisticated.  you even had to provide your own motor to turn the thing, and barbecue to roast in.  Not too many people complained, it was something people wanted and they were willing to pay for it, because they didn't want to hastle trying to do it themselves.  If people want it, let them be happy with it.  If they think it's too much buck for the bang, then they need not get it.  

On his costs.  Maybe if he had 10,000 of them made or 100k the price would have been significantly cheaper.  See in his case, as in any business, the original machining and tooling is a killer.   We are going to charge you X thousands of dollars to design the thing,  X to program it for our CNC laser cutter.  then X per unit for the metal and X per unit to cut it.  now add packaging shipping handling and all that crap, it adds up.  now lets throw in the custom die to form it, that had to be tooled.  Some of that $hit can cost thousands for someone to make a die for you. Given he's playing with stainless, ie a hard metal, the die is probably a hybrid carbide or some other exotic metal to hold up over time.  not to mention use of the press to run it and then finally welding it, burnishing it, cleaning it, maybe etching it.

Now lets do this in america, where minimum wage is 7 bucks an hour,  in a skilled area, like a machine shop, you are probably paying closer to 25 an hour.  versus china where they are making maybe 50 cents an hour.

Now lets add a store front, all the licenses and the stuff to start a new business.  ANY of you who have opened your own coffee shops should know plenty well the kind of crap I am talking about.  He has to pay that off, like it or not.  Any business, no matter what it is, to be sucessful, absolutely HAS to pass it's costs onto the customer.

Give him a year or two, if the thing catches on and he's selling a buttload of them, THEN he will have bargaining power to say Hey!!  you are charging me x for these, i am moving 1000 a month / week / whatever the number may be.  How about a volume discount here... or start shopping other places, because now he can honestly tell them.  I will need X a month and they have a solid number to work.  At that point I bet he can lower his prices a bit.

People pay 5 bucks for a cup of crap from starbucks... is it worth it... no, but they still pay it.  Unlike starbucks, This item looks like something that might actually be useful for something besides taking paint off your car or removing love bug guts from your windshield.

You act like his markup is insane, you have NO idea the markup in the 'retail' arena.   Those watch batteries you pay $3.99 for.  The store gets them for about 20 cents each.   That phone battery radio shack sells for $59.99, cost them about 8 dollars.  It seems obscene but when you look at all the places the money has to be paid back out to... they are not making that much of a profit overall per item.

just my two pennies... or perhaps I should use steel washers.

Aaron
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 03, 2010, 03:20:59 PM
snipped

Its something I made for fun and for the love of coffee.

Please remember that.

Best,
Keith

No good deed goes unpunished Keith. We're spoiled; we get great coffee on the cheap, we get group prices on cool coffee gear, and we buy and sell among ourselves at near-cost. $50 isn't too much for a great pour over filter, unless you think pour over is overrated in the first place. But for what it says it can do, it's not a bad price.

Now I'm wondering if you're going to transfer the technology to espresso machines, which is where real coffee is made? 8)


Tex,

Thanks.

I love coffee made by the cup personally. I also love espresso and drink coffee both ways everyday.

We only offer pour over at our shop for $2 a cup. This is because I want people to be able to enjoy great coffee everyday. I don't feel the customer is willing to spend $4 - $5 everyday for a coffee yet. My customers here love our their coffee made everyday using our filter and by the pour over method.

Espresso: We love espresso also.
We offer two single origins every day. Ok I'll bite this before it starts. Are we trendy? No we just love the simplicity of not doing a blend and not having to deal with the burden of a blend. Burden...??? Well cost and also peoples expectations. Its easier for use to change things up all the time because we only do singles rather than explain an ever changing blend.

My business partner, best friend and best man in my wedding loves his coffee made as espresso first. So we balance each other out.

Look for espresso parts to release some cool knew espresso gear very soon. Its right up the ally your are speaking of. ;).

Oh man do I for some stupid reason feel punished but I'll get over it. Thanks again.

Best,
Keith
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 03, 2010, 03:24:53 PM
Let me add a few thoughts here.

A swiss gold can be made to drop as fast, or as slow as one wants by changing the coarseness of the grind.  This one is a funnel, the swiss gold, a bit... flatter of a funnel.  Being stainless, I would think this one might be a bit more durable than a SG, because the gauge of the metal appears thicker.

It might not be much different than a swiss gold but it 'is' something different.   How many people shoveled out a few hundred bucks for an RK drum when they were making them?  All that is is some steel welded into a tube shape with ends on it, not very sophisticated.  you even had to provide your own motor to turn the thing, and barbecue to roast in.  Not too many people complained, it was something people wanted and they were willing to pay for it, because they didn't want to hastle trying to do it themselves.  If people want it, let them be happy with it.  If they think it's too much buck for the bang, then they need not get it.  

On his costs.  Maybe if he had 10,000 of them made or 100k the price would have been significantly cheaper.  See in his case, as in any business, the original machining and tooling is a killer.   We are going to charge you X thousands of dollars to design the thing,  X to program it for our CNC laser cutter.  then X per unit for the metal and X per unit to cut it.  now add packaging shipping handling and all that crap, it adds up.  now lets throw in the custom die to form it, that had to be tooled.  Some of that $hit can cost thousands for someone to make a die for you. Given he's playing with stainless, ie a hard metal, the die is probably a hybrid carbide or some other exotic metal to hold up over time.  not to mention use of the press to run it and then finally welding it, burnishing it, cleaning it, maybe etching it.

Now lets do this in america, where minimum wage is 7 bucks an hour,  in a skilled area, like a machine shop, you are probably paying closer to 25 an hour.  versus china where they are making maybe 50 cents an hour.

Now lets add a store front, all the licenses and the stuff to start a new business.  ANY of you who have opened your own coffee shops should know plenty well the kind of crap I am talking about.  He has to pay that off, like it or not.  Any business, no matter what it is, to be sucessful, absolutely HAS to pass it's costs onto the customer.

Give him a year or two, if the thing catches on and he's selling a buttload of them, THEN he will have bargaining power to say Hey!!  you are charging me x for these, i am moving 1000 a month / week / whatever the number may be.  How about a volume discount here... or start shopping other places, because now he can honestly tell them.  I will need X a month and they have a solid number to work.  At that point I bet he can lower his prices a bit.

People pay 5 bucks for a cup of crap from starbucks... is it worth it... no, but they still pay it.  Unlike starbucks, This item looks like something that might actually be useful for something besides taking paint off your car or removing love bug guts from your windshield.

You act like his markup is insane, you have NO idea the markup in the 'retail' arena.   Those watch batteries you pay $3.99 for.  The store gets them for about 20 cents each.   That phone battery radio shack sells for $59.99, cost them about 8 dollars.  It seems obscene but when you look at all the places the money has to be paid back out to... they are not making that much of a profit overall per item.

just my two pennies... or perhaps I should use steel washers.

Aaron


THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!!!!

-Keith
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 03, 2010, 03:35:38 PM
Keith,

How do you think the Kone will work, apart from a Chemex?  Will it fit in a Hario V60?

I fashioned a wire holder for a Swiss Gold K4, and figure as long as the Kone is supported at the top and is kept level, it should be fine.  Right?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 03, 2010, 03:38:02 PM
Keith,

How do you think the Kone will work, apart from a Chemex?  Will it fit in a Hario V60?

I fashioned a wire holder for a Swiss Gold K4, and figure as long as the Kone is supported at the top and is kept level, it should be fine.  Right?

Fits Hario well.

As long as its supported from top and level you are right. Is designed to be a "floating" filter. Meaning the coffee can "bleed" from all the holes.

-Keith
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 03, 2010, 03:47:36 PM
Keith,

Any chance you have video of the KONE in action?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 03, 2010, 03:48:04 PM

1.Please do not tell me or on a forum in front of your audience that I made this to make money. That is rude and offensive to me.


2.This crazy thread was my greatest fear of releasing this as a "product". I cant believe people out there like you exist and feel it ok to post things as you have about me. I once again challenge you to meet me before posting anything else negative about me.

3.My email is keith@coavacoffee.com . I will give you my cell and we can have a heart to heart if you like. If you do not call I find it not acceptable to post your personal opinion about me as a person and my motives.


Keith

1. If your offended I am sorry, but "most" people manufacture something and pay all that money to get a return on investment. I didn't think you would feel personally attacked by those statements. So for that I am sorry.

2. I'm not sure what you are afraid of, IMO you should've capitalized on the opportunity. But you haven't.... yet. You can still offer our group a better more competitive price for your product. If the price was better you would've probably had a different set of posts by me. I am not trying to post negative remarks about you personally, if I did it wasn't intended, The way your product was introduced etc. wasn't done properly and that isn't your fault. You seem like a stand-up guy and you are at least answering the Q's in a quick manner so for that I hope it works out for you.

3. I'll pm you my number you can call me anytime. I'm a nice guy.. really.

So hopefully you feel less on the defensive, look at the amount of people we have on the forums, realize only a fraction ever read this particular forum and when we want to buy something in force we aren't kidding. 
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 03, 2010, 03:48:39 PM
I have already received my tracking number.  Thanks much.  Looking forward to using it in a cupping session of the Local Locos Yockels.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 03, 2010, 03:52:35 PM
Also,

Have you ever tried the KONE in conjunction with a pour over station, with the filter supported by the stand, suspended over a cup or decanter? I bet the "bleeding" effect of the coffee through the filter would be something to watch.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 03, 2010, 03:59:33 PM
Keith,

Thank you again for the offer you extended to the club.
Everyone please remember Keith is an active part of the coffee community and put a lot of time, effort, capital etc into these KONEs.
He did this for the love of coffee, much like we are all roasting, tinkering, experimenting for the love of coffee. He is not out to make a killing on these. Just in the same way we are not out to make a killing on splitting bags of coffee and having fun doing it.
There's really no reason to knock a product that I'm guessing 99.9% of people haven't tried.
We should be commending him for his commitment to advancing coffee education and brew methods.

Mark
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 03, 2010, 04:13:45 PM
I have already received my tracking number.  Thanks much.  Looking forward to using it in a cupping session of the Local Locos Yockels.

B|Java
Me too.  Thanks Keith.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 03, 2010, 04:18:39 PM
Keith,

Thank you again for the offer you extended to the club.
Everyone please remember Keith is an active part of the coffee community and put a lot of time, effort, capital etc into these KONEs.
He did this for the love of coffee, much like we are all roasting, tinkering, experimenting for the love of coffee. He is not out to make a killing on these. Just in the same way we are not out to make a killing on splitting bags of coffee and having fun doing it.
There's really no reason to knock a product that I'm guessing 99.9% of people haven't tried.
We should be commending him for his commitment to advancing coffee education and brew methods.

Mark
+1

I've had a cup at coffee fest that Atlas made.  Good cup, but nothing to compare it to.  I plan to test the Kone with the Swiss Gold, same coffee, same everything else.... then I'll decide if I like it.  

With that said I like that Keith is buying American, is a small business and wants to support his passion..... which is also my passion.

I'll report back in a few days, since mine is in the mail.... less than 200 miles from my house.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: cfsheridan on November 03, 2010, 04:51:54 PM
Ordered.  Thanks for the discount offer...now I have to resist the irresistible urge to buy a Chemex.  Maybe I can time the order to coincide with a planned trip by she who must be obeyed or appeased.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 03, 2010, 05:16:50 PM
Ordered.  Thanks for the discount offer...now I have to resist the irresistible urge to buy a Chemex.  Maybe I can time the order to coincide with a planned trip by she who must be obeyed or appeased.


Hint, hint (http://prima-restaurant-equipment.com/content/chemex-classic-series-glass-coffeemaker-8-cup-capacity)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 03, 2010, 05:36:38 PM
Man John must be writing a novel. He's been posting in this for like 5hrs  8)

I bet a lot of deleting and rewriting are going into this post that should appear sometime tonight  ;D :P
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: cfsheridan on November 03, 2010, 05:59:50 PM
Ordered.  Thanks for the discount offer...now I have to resist the irresistible urge to buy a Chemex.  Maybe I can time the order to coincide with a planned trip by she who must be obeyed or appeased.


Hint, hint ([url]http://prima-restaurant-equipment.com/content/chemex-classic-series-glass-coffeemaker-8-cup-capacity[/url])


Dang it Larry you are not helping!  I've still not let on to how much Colombia and Bolivia microlots will be stashed here shortly....not to mention my nefarious plan for the Ambex that I've yet to buy....
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 03, 2010, 06:05:19 PM
Reading all of this there is just one part I don't understand.

Why the insistence that it was never made to sell or make money?

I guess I'm just thrown by that because 1) I don't see anything wrong with the idea of making a product to sell. 2) Why order 1,000 filters and spend 20K for a personal use product when (I am almost sure) a good fab shop could make a dozen of them for a lot less cash?

But aside from that there is the coffee angle.

I find myself between Peter and Joe on this part. I agree with Peter that we don't know what is going on with the cup without testing it. I'd want to test it properly before saying what the cup brings. However......I also feel compelled to take some guesses  ;D I have a hunch the cup is going to be closer to a Swiss Gold than a French Press but for usage that hardly matters. Looks like the main intended use at this time is a permanent Chemex filter. Chemex paper makes a way different cup than either FP or SG so anybody switching from paper to Kone will be getting a different cup.

As for the price... I've got no doubt it costs more to make things sourced with all USA parts and labor. I've got no doubt tooling and set ups cost a lot of money. I have no reason to question how much was invested in this project....I don't get why 1,000 units were purchased (not to sell) and I personally don't think I am the target market to pay $50-$60 for a metal filter like this but it does look really cool.  8) I can't speak for Joe but I don't think he intended to speak to the manufacturing costs exactly as much as 1) group buy vs retail pricing 2) Like me, is $50 an amount of money we feel like personally spending on this concept. A metal cone shaped permanent filter.

But....

B l Newtoy has ordered one so some testing notes are bound to arrive soon and who knows what will happen after that?

I remember thinking I would NEVER buy an aeropress and now I find it fills a slot in my line up that no other device can. It's a must have for my gear list these days so who knows... I'm guessing it's unlikely but who knows?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 03, 2010, 06:08:23 PM
Man John must be writing a novel. He's been posting in this for like 5hrs  8)

I bet a lot of deleting and rewriting are going into this post that should appear sometime tonight  ;D :P

Hahahaha! I was watching TV over my shoulder and typing a word here and there...

For like 15 min not 5 hrs.   :P

I was also rambling off the top of my head and now you have me feeling self conscious. Like I was supposed to deliver a well thought out reply with my 5 hour power post.  ;)

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 03, 2010, 06:16:00 PM
Ordered.  Thanks for the discount offer...now I have to resist the irresistible urge to buy a Chemex.  Maybe I can time the order to coincide with a planned trip by she who must be obeyed or appeased.


Hint, hint ([url]http://prima-restaurant-equipment.com/content/chemex-classic-series-glass-coffeemaker-8-cup-capacity[/url])


Dang it Larry you are not helping!  I've still not let on to how much Colombia and Bolivia microlots will be stashed here shortly....not to mention my nefarious plan for the Ambex that I've yet to buy....


Let me help with the Ambex discussion.   "honey, if I get a bigger roaster I'll spend less time roasting and more time with you." :angel:

That worked for me.  And the Chemex... purely scientific research!!  Gotta help check out this new Kone filter.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 03, 2010, 07:02:23 PM
Reading all of this there is just one part I don't understand.

Why the insistence that it was never made to sell or make money?

I guess I'm just thrown by that because 1) I don't see anything wrong with the idea of making a product to sell. 2) Why order 1,000 filters and spend 20K for a personal use product when (I am almost sure) a good fab shop could make a dozen of them for a lot less cash?

But aside from that there is the coffee angle.

I find myself between Peter and Joe on this part. I agree with Peter that we don't know what is going on with the cup without testing it. I'd want to test it properly before saying what the cup brings. However......I also feel compelled to take some guesses  ;D I have a hunch the cup is going to be closer to a Swiss Gold than a French Press but for usage that hardly matters. Looks like the main intended use at this time is a permanent Chemex filter. Chemex paper makes a way different cup than either FP or SG so anybody switching from paper to Kone will be getting a different cup.

As for the price... I've got no doubt it costs more to make things sourced with all USA parts and labor. I've got no doubt tooling and set ups cost a lot of money. I have no reason to question how much was invested in this project....I don't get why 1,000 units were purchased (not to sell) and I personally don't think I am the target market to pay $50-$60 for a metal filter like this but it does look really cool.  8) I can't speak for Joe but I don't think he intended to speak to the manufacturing costs exactly as much as 1) group buy vs retail pricing 2) Like me, is $50 an amount of money we feel like personally spending on this concept. A metal cone shaped permanent filter.

But....

B l Newtoy has ordered one so some testing notes are bound to arrive soon and who knows what will happen after that?

I remember thinking I would NEVER buy an aeropress and now I find it fills a slot in my line up that no other device can. It's a must have for my gear list these days so who knows... I'm guessing it's unlikely but who knows?


I was saying that because of the comments that were said feeling like I was trying to pull a fast one on people. And feeling like I needed to defend myself of why I originally thought, designed and made the filter not why I produced 1,000. Yes I made 1,000 to sell but I originally made the filter as a concept and fun project. I thought making the small run which was 50 that we use at our coffee bar was going to be all that were ever created by myself. This changed when others wanted to have one. I didn't see dollar signs in my eyes I saw honest coffee loving people that wanted to support the idea and what they feel is a good tasting coffee it can make. I hope that clears that issue up for you.

IMO the coffee taste like that possibly similar to a clover. It does allow small fines to pass through. But because of the hole pattern shape and technique not nearly that of a french press. So somewhat of a brew between french press and filter I guess.

I didn't really aim to make it taste or brew much different then that of a traditional paper filter when I started the project. I just simply wanted a reusable filter that could last a long time and that didn't involve the use of plastic. I tried the gold cones by both Melitta and Bodum and neither of them I was really happy with. Both the quality/durability and the brewing. Not that it tasted bad I just wanted it to be better.

Keep bringing the questions and thoughts I'll keep responding. I value all the feedback, support, and concerns.

Best,
Keith
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 03, 2010, 07:07:22 PM
Keith, I just put my order in.  Thank you for the discount. I've been watching your progress on different forums for a while, and I appreciate all the time and effort you put into this.  My Chemex has been sitting on a shelf for a couple of years, because I haven't been able to reproduce (control) the kind of cup I get from other pour-over methods so I'm really excited about this.

Thanks,
Woody


Thanks Woody,

I will get that out to you tomorrow. I have fulfilled all orders that have come in today. I hope you all love the filter as much as I do and as much as I did to create it.

I prefer to use a Chemex with it.

25-30 grams of coffee
pour 100 grams water in 15-20 seconds for pre soak
let stand for 45-1:00 minute
at 1:00 start pouring again another 300 grams of water stopping your pour at 1:45-2:00
This should then take 2:30 - 3:30 minutes to final drip
Remember to pour slow and gentle with this filter... its not paper ;)

Once again hope you enjoy.

-Keith
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 03, 2010, 07:11:57 PM
Ordered.  Thanks for the discount offer...now I have to resist the irresistible urge to buy a Chemex.  Maybe I can time the order to coincide with a planned trip by she who must be obeyed or appeased.


I was at a Goodwill store Monday and they had a large Chemex (still had the new labels on it) for only $5; should I have jumped on it?
 :-\
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 03, 2010, 07:18:52 PM
I hope that clears that issue up for you

Yeah, that makes sense.

I'll be watching to see what the members who have orders in are saying in a few days.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 03, 2010, 07:24:59 PM

I was at a Goodwill store Monday and they had a large Chemex (still had the new labels on it) for only $5; should I have jumped on it?
 :-\

Tex, for heaven's sake man!  Walked past a new Chemex?  Man, you should be drummed out of the club.  Nab it and if you get caught walking into the house with it, just say it is a vase (vass) for her -- have some flowers in the other hand.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 03, 2010, 07:29:34 PM
Quote
I remember thinking I would NEVER buy an aeropress and now I find it fills a slot in my line up that no other device can. It's a must have for my gear list ...

How can you even insert that plastic trash talk into a honkin' stainless steel, US made perma-filter thread?  Go find Rasqual and talk plastic stuff on that 87 page CoffeeGeek thread he gave birth to ...<grins>.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 03, 2010, 07:35:12 PM
Joe,

Thank you for your last post.

Also thank you for your phone number. Its late tonight but I would love to chat with you on the phone. Maybe tomorrow?

I need to go clean the cat box now. :)

Good night all.

-Keith
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 03, 2010, 07:42:30 PM
How can you even insert that plastic trash talk into a honkin' stainless steel, US made perma-filter thread?  

I might buy a stainless steel Aeropress.  ;D

I can say that polyester filters in the AP are way better than Swiss Gold....no word yet on the Kone AP disks yet to be released.

At $39 each.  ;D ;D   Welcome to GCBC Kieth this is how we do it, and that was pretty funny if you ask me.  ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: J.Jirehs Roaster on November 03, 2010, 08:14:45 PM
Joe,

Thank you for your last post.

Also thank you for your phone number. Its late tonight but I would love to chat with you on the phone. Maybe tomorrow?

I need to go clean the cat box now. :)

Good night all.

-Keith

gotta keep the VP of quality control happy  (!?!?! were did that picture of the cat and KONE prototypes go?!?!)

I like the concept.. especially the thought of watching the coffee work through as part of the customer experience.. it takes the ceramic  brewer design ideas in a whole other direction.. I see the wisdom of not brewing into the same vessel you are drinking from (sediment)

if enough people are interested in chemex brewers I would love to be the middle man for you.. I need to make some money but I will be fair :D   
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 03, 2010, 08:44:24 PM

I was at a Goodwill store Monday and they had a large Chemex (still had the new labels on it) for only $5; should I have jumped on it?
 :-\

You Tease!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 03, 2010, 09:06:56 PM

I was at a Goodwill store Monday and they had a large Chemex (still had the new labels on it) for only $5; should I have jumped on it?
 :-\

You Tease!

Is that a good price?

I think I'll drop by tomorrow and see if it's still there?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 03, 2010, 09:12:19 PM

I was at a Goodwill store Monday and they had a large Chemex (still had the new labels on it) for only $5; should I have jumped on it?
 :-\


Tex, for heaven's sake man!  Walked past a new Chemex?  Man, you should be drummed out of the club.  Nab it and if you get caught walking into the house with it, just say it is a vase (vass) for her -- have some flowers in the other hand.

B|Java

No!!!

Branded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKmJPnAGUJk#)

Actually, I've already got that one figured out - I'll just tell Mrs T that it's for Milo. ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 03, 2010, 09:13:58 PM
I was at a Goodwill store Monday and they had a large Chemex (still had the new labels on it) for only $5; should I have jumped on it?
 :-\

I read these stories and then for a few weeks I try to find scores. As I am driving around I'll spot a thrift store and I stop in and run inside to find the loot.

Without fail I see a bunch of old clothes, a stack of VHS VCR's, some plastic drip machines, and a bread maker with a dinged up lid. I eyeball the bread maker every time and it's always about $7. I think of getting it and making a heat gun roaster with it but then I just walk away. At the next store I spot I imagine how much fun it will be if I find a Stir Crazy or a turbo oven...but no. Just the bread machine and assortment of Mr. Coffee machines with the carafe taped on with 9 rounds of scotch tape.

Then I forget about it until the next time I see a post where somebody scores a commercial lever machine in mint condition for $29 or a brand new Chemex for $5.

Now I'm starting to wonder if these stories are like the stories in the magazines we would find as kids that somebody's Dad had hidden away that started out...

You will never believe what happened when I walked in on these two cheerleaders having a pillow fight..

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 03, 2010, 09:27:20 PM
I was at a Goodwill store Monday and they had a large Chemex (still had the new labels on it) for only $5; should I have jumped on it?
 :-\

I read these stories and then for a few weeks I try to find scores. As I am driving around I'll spot a thrift store and I stop in and run inside to find the loot.

Without fail I see a bunch of old clothes, a stack of VHS VCR's, some plastic drip machines, and a bread maker with a dinged up lid. I eyeball the bread maker every time and it's always about $7. I think of getting it and making a heat gun roaster with it but then I just walk away. At the next store I spot I imagine how much fun it will be if I find a Stir Crazy or a turbo oven...but no. Just the bread machine and assortment of Mr. Coffee machines with the carafe taped on with 9 rounds of scotch tape.

Then I forget about it until the next time I see a post where somebody scores a commercial lever machine in mint condition for $29 or a brand new Chemex for $5.

Now I'm starting to wonder if these stories are like the stories in the magazines we would find as kids that somebody's Dad had hidden away that started out...

You will never believe what happened when I walked in on these two cheerleaders having a pillow fight..

My Dad never had that kind of magazine, at least not that any of us kids ever found; Mom-The-Baptist would've neutered him!

If you're EVER in the Seattle area, have someone take you by the big Goodwill store (on Dearborn?). It's huge - I used to drive by there on the way to work every day and I'd stop in from time to time. It's amazing the stuff Seattleites give to Goodwill!!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 04, 2010, 04:56:51 AM

I was at a Goodwill store Monday and they had a large Chemex (still had the new labels on it) for only $5; should I have jumped on it?
 :-\

You Tease!

Is that a good price?

I think I'll drop by tomorrow and see if it's still there?

I'll buy it if no one else does....seriously.

It's odd you should mention Chemex brewers at thrift shops. I hit thrift shops pretty hard on the weekends and I have never seen a Chemex for sale. I have a friend that shops at the same exact stores I do and he has bought over 15 of them, most of the time for $3-5 each. It makes me sick :D

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: hobiwankinobi on November 04, 2010, 05:22:24 AM
No kidding I dont know how many poppers and stir crazy's I have bought at thrift stores. I have yet to see a chemex. I had even found a la pavoni europiccola too for 15$ which I resold on ebay for 315. I still have high hopes though. I love to hit the thrift stores.

Steve
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 04, 2010, 05:27:49 AM
I had even found a la pavoni europiccola too for 15$

Thanks for that....

Now I'll be looking at old VCR's and those blasted bread machines for the next 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 04, 2010, 06:19:41 AM

I was at a Goodwill store Monday and they had a large Chemex (still had the new labels on it) for only $5; should I have jumped on it?
 :-\

Tex, for heaven's sake man!  Walked past a new Chemex?  Man, you should be drummed out of the club.  Nab it and if you get caught walking into the house with it, just say it is a vase (vass) for her -- have some flowers in the other hand.

B|Java
No!!!

Actually, I've already got that one figured out - I'll just tell Mrs T that it's for Milo. ;D


Tex, you told her that about my Sonofresco too..... this you could ship to me though.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 04, 2010, 06:31:26 AM
I was at a Goodwill store Monday and they had a large Chemex (still had the new labels on it) for only $5; should I have jumped on it?
 :-\

I read these stories and then for a few weeks I try to find scores. As I am driving around I'll spot a thrift store and I stop in and run inside to find the loot.

Without fail I see a bunch of old clothes, a stack of VHS VCR's, some plastic drip machines, and a bread maker with a dinged up lid. I eyeball the bread maker every time and it's always about $7. I think of getting it and making a heat gun roaster with it but then I just walk away. At the next store I spot I imagine how much fun it will be if I find a Stir Crazy or a turbo oven...but no. Just the bread machine and assortment of Mr. Coffee machines with the carafe taped on with 9 rounds of scotch tape.

Then I forget about it until the next time I see a post where somebody scores a commercial lever machine in mint condition for $29 or a brand new Chemex for $5.

Now I'm starting to wonder if these stories are like the stories in the magazines we would find as kids that somebody's Dad had hidden away that started out...

You will never believe what happened when I walked in on these two cheerleaders having a pillow fight..

My Dad never had that kind of magazine, at least not that any of us kids ever found; Mom-The-Baptist would've neutered him!

If you're EVER in the Seattle area, have someone take you by the big Goodwill store (on Dearborn?). It's huge - I used to drive by there on the way to work every day and I'd stop in from time to time. It's amazing the stuff Seattleites give to Goodwill!!


I'm with John on this.... Tex is spouting a fable.  The Dearborn Goodwill is like every other thrift store as John described only bigger... They have tons of bread machines and Mr. Coffees....

Seattle Craigslist on the other hand....

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 04, 2010, 08:25:23 AM
I'm with John on this.... Tex is spouting a fable.  The Dearborn Goodwill is like every other thrift store as John described only bigger... They have tons of bread machines and Mr. Coffees....

Seattle Craigslist on the other hand....

Yeah, I guess the internet has cut into charitable donations, hasn't it? Before the 'net, eBay, and CL, you could count on one or two "finds" per visit to the big store. Times change. Back before they redid I90 it used to dump folks off right in front of the store - made it easy to drop in now and then.

Anyway, I got the Chemex ($5.42 with tax and they even had the original box), so it'll go with the rest of my coffee display. It'll probably never be used, but it looks cool.

It's a big sucker -  CM-10A. It's missing the filters, but it looks like some left over lab filters will work. I might use it once before I shelve it.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 04, 2010, 08:29:59 AM



Anyway, I got the Chemex ($5.42 with tax and they even had the original box), so it'll go with the rest of my coffee display. It'll probably never be used, but it looks cool.




If you get  Kone, you'll have a cooler functional setup and with the price you got the Chemex, you really get a great deal on the pair 8)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: mp on November 04, 2010, 08:34:08 AM
King of twisted logic throwing $50 after $5 ... but I think you may have convinced Robert to open his wallet.

 :-X
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 04, 2010, 08:38:47 AM
King of twisted logic throwing $50 after $5 ... but I think you may have convinced Robert to open his wallet.

 :-X

Nah, he'll not buy a Kone.  He doesn't do pourovers.  Not only that, he'd rather take a perfectly good Chemex and put it on the shelf to collect dust.  What a travesty; it's like the guy he knows that owns a Corvette, but never really drives it.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 04, 2010, 08:50:39 AM

If you get  Kone, you'll have a cooler functional setup and with the price you got the Chemex, you really get a great deal on the pair 8)

Huh? ???

You sounded like Norm Crosby there for a second dude!

Why would I throw more money after money admittedly spent on a decorative piece? If I want a good cup of coffee I've got at least a half-dozen "good" options to go through before I have to fall back on a pour over :icon_puke_l:

Think man, think! Repeat after me, "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot.". Now keep that thought front and center in your brain.
;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 04, 2010, 08:53:13 AM
King of twisted logic throwing $50 after $5 ... but I think you may have convinced Robert to open his wallet.

 :-X

Nah, he'll not buy a Kone.  He doesn't do pourovers.  Not only that, he'd rather take a perfectly good Chemex and put it on the shelf to collect dust.  What a travesty; it's like the guy he knows that owns a Corvette, but never really drives it.

Wrong! During Ike that's all I used. :P OK, so I didn't really have a lot of choices, but I did use my Melitta a lot back then. 8)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: YasBean on November 04, 2010, 09:02:11 AM
Why would I throw more money after money admittedly spent on a decorative piece? If I want a good cup of coffee I've got at least a half-dozen "good" options to go through before I have to fall back on a pour over :icon_puke_l:

Think man, think! Repeat after me, "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot.". Now keep that thought front and center in your brain.
;D
Thank you for bringing me back to my senses!  I was about to go for the pretty shiny geometric shape, but remembered that Newco sitting on our fridge collecting dust and the vintage '36 Silex stove-top vac that is just too big to use.  Espresso or Hario vac!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 04, 2010, 09:04:36 AM
Why would I throw more money after money admittedly spent on a decorative piece? If I want a good cup of coffee I've got at least a half-dozen "good" options to go through before I have to fall back on a pour over :icon_puke_l:

Think man, think! Repeat after me, "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot.". Now keep that thought front and center in your brain.
;D
Thank you for bringing me back to my senses!  I was about to go for the pretty shiny geometric shape, but remembered that Newco sitting on our fridge collecting dust and the vintage '36 Silex stove-top vac that is just too big to use.  Espresso or Hario vac!

Glad I could help! Maybe we should start a counseling service to help folks simplify their lives in these confusing times? :angel:

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 04, 2010, 09:13:02 AM
Not everybody has already purchased dozens of toys and doesn't own a vac-pot.  For them, this would be perfect.  Some folks prefer pourovers.


Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: J.Jirehs Roaster on November 04, 2010, 10:09:24 AM
Why would I throw more money after money admittedly spent on a decorative piece? If I want a good cup of coffee I've got at least a half-dozen "good" options to go through before I have to fall back on a pour over :icon_puke_l:

Think man, think! Repeat after me, "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot.". Now keep that thought front and center in your brain.
;D
Thank you for bringing me back to my senses!  I was about to go for the pretty shiny geometric shape, but remembered that Newco sitting on our fridge collecting dust and the vintage '36 Silex stove-top vac that is just too big to use.  Espresso or Hario vac!

Glad I could help! Maybe we should start a counseling service to help folks simplify their lives in these confusing times? :angel:



slippery slope!! next thing you know some one will come along trying to simplify your life with a can of pre ground coffee or ~gasp~ buyers club card for *$
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 04, 2010, 11:00:32 AM
Why would I throw more money after money admittedly spent on a decorative piece? If I want a good cup of coffee I've got at least a half-dozen "good" options to go through before I have to fall back on a pour over :icon_puke_l:

Think man, think! Repeat after me, "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot.". Now keep that thought front and center in your brain.
;D
Thank you for bringing me back to my senses!  I was about to go for the pretty shiny geometric shape, but remembered that Newco sitting on our fridge collecting dust and the vintage '36 Silex stove-top vac that is just too big to use.  Espresso or Hario vac!

Glad I could help! Maybe we should start a counseling service to help folks simplify their lives in these confusing times? :angel:



slippery slope!! next thing you know some one will come along trying to simplify your life with a can of pre ground coffee or ~gasp~ buyers club card for *$

Then the answer is to start a seminar program like EST/Context, where we can take these lost folks and give them in-depth help. Do you think it'd fit under the GCBC umbrella or should we strike out on our own?

I see it now; a one-week process where our experts could teach the miscreants the difference between good coffee and dreck. Then there'd be sessions teaching the novices how to use the various devices. Then a one-week in-depth residence program in Etheopia, where we'd take the new initiates to the farms to pick their own beans.

Wow, I can just see the coffee improvement movement sweeping the country. We'd be a power to be reckoned with!

 :angel:
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 04, 2010, 11:20:44 AM
Man John must be writing a novel. He's been posting in this for like 5hrs  8)

I bet a lot of deleting and rewriting are going into this post that should appear sometime tonight  ;D :P

Hahahaha! I was watching TV over my shoulder and typing a word here and there...

For like 15 min not 5 hrs.   :P

I was also rambling off the top of my head and now you have me feeling self conscious. Like I was supposed to deliver a well thought out reply with my 5 hour power post.  ;)




hahahahaa...jus' messing I was hanging on to see what you were going to post and it took longer than my patience could afford ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 04, 2010, 11:22:40 AM
I had even found a la pavoni europiccola too for 15$

Thanks for that....

Now I'll be looking at old VCR's and those blasted bread machines for the next 2 weeks.

hahhahaha..I got lucky once. It was a good once and it was on Craigslist with the espresso machine spelled expresso in the ad I scored my Elektra T-1 for $180.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 04, 2010, 11:33:10 AM
Think man, think! Repeat after me, "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  

While I don't totally agree with you. I did score a nice Cory Vac pot like I used to have back in the day for $30. I have always regretted selling my Cory and now it has finally come full circle.....Vac Pots do make a perfect cup.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 04, 2010, 11:36:33 AM
Why would I throw more money after money admittedly spent on a decorative piece? If I want a good cup of coffee I've got at least a half-dozen "good" options to go through before I have to fall back on a pour over :icon_puke_l:

Think man, think! Repeat after me, "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot."  "Good coffee = espresso or vac pot.". Now keep that thought front and center in your brain.
;D
Thank you for bringing me back to my senses!  I was about to go for the pretty shiny geometric shape, but remembered that Newco sitting on our fridge collecting dust and the vintage '36 Silex stove-top vac that is just too big to use.  Espresso or Hario vac!

Glad I could help! Maybe we should start a counseling service to help folks simplify their lives in these confusing times? :angel:



slippery slope!! next thing you know some one will come along trying to simplify your life with a can of pre ground coffee or ~gasp~ buyers club card for *$

Then the answer is to start a seminar program like EST/Context, where we can take these lost folks and give them in-depth help. Do you think it'd fit under the GCBC umbrella or should we strike out on our own?

I see it now; a one-week process where our experts could teach the miscreants the difference between good coffee and dreck. Then there'd be sessions teaching the novices how to use the various devices. Then a one-week in-depth residence program in Etheopia, where we'd take the new initiates to the farms to pick their own beans.

Wow, I can just see the coffee improvement movement sweeping the country. We'd be a power to be reckoned with!

 :angel:

It's an aggressive plan, but I like it. Green light from me. Maybe even call it something like GCBC 101, that way it seems more like a class than therapy.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 04, 2010, 11:36:53 AM
I had even found a la pavoni europiccola too for 15$


Thanks for that....

Now I'll be looking at old VCR's and those blasted bread machines for the next 2 weeks.


hahhahaha..I got lucky once. It was a good once and it was on Craigslist with the espresso machine spelled expresso in the ad I scored my Elektra T-1 for $180.


Broad searches (http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=%28espress*+or+express*%29+bunn+OR+futurmat+OR+italcrem+OR+visacrem+OR+mairali+site%3Acraigslist.org&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS176US231&ie=UTF-8) with wild cards work well too. Good finds are out there!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: espressoh on November 04, 2010, 12:06:11 PM
Sorta on/off the subject. Does anyone know if the Kone will fit into the large Mellita?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 04, 2010, 12:34:39 PM
Sorta on/off the subject. Does anyone know if the Kone will fit into the large Mellita?

Bad form! Once a thread is hijacked it can't be unhijacked. ;D

Do you mean the pour over or the drip maker?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: YasBean on November 04, 2010, 12:59:23 PM
I had even found a la pavoni europiccola too for 15$


Thanks for that....

Now I'll be looking at old VCR's and those blasted bread machines for the next 2 weeks.


hahhahaha..I got lucky once. It was a good once and it was on Craigslist with the espresso machine spelled expresso in the ad I scored my Elektra T-1 for $180.


Broad searches ([url]http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=%28espress[/url]*+or+express*%29+bunn+OR+futurmat+OR+italcrem+OR+visacrem+OR+mairali+site%3Acraigslist.org&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS176US231&ie=UTF-8) with wild cards work well too. Good finds are out there!
So that is how you do it!  I can learn how to Google here, too! :)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 04, 2010, 01:05:21 PM
I had even found a la pavoni europiccola too for 15$


Thanks for that....

Now I'll be looking at old VCR's and those blasted bread machines for the next 2 weeks.


hahhahaha..I got lucky once. It was a good once and it was on Craigslist with the espresso machine spelled expresso in the ad I scored my Elektra T-1 for $180.


Broad searches ([url]http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=%28espress[/url]*+or+express*%29+bunn+OR+futurmat+OR+italcrem+OR+visacrem+OR+mairali+site%3Acraigslist.org&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS176US231&ie=UTF-8) with wild cards work well too. Good finds are out there!
So that is how you do it!  I can learn how to Google here, too! :)


(http://www.warptv.com/image/shhh_logo.gif)

Keep it down, we don't want those guys to find out! ;)

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: espressoh on November 04, 2010, 01:22:34 PM
Sorta on/off the subject. Does anyone know if the Kone will fit into the large Mellita?

Bad form! Once a thread is hijacked it can't be unhijacked. ;D

Do you mean the pour over or the drip maker?

The pour over. Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack anything
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 04, 2010, 07:00:17 PM
Bad form! Once a thread is hijacked it can't be unhijacked. ;D

That was funny.

Somebody really should say Kone 50 times because the newbie probably has no idea how normal this is for GCBC.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 04, 2010, 07:17:28 PM
I got mine today....  :headbang:
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 04, 2010, 07:36:14 PM
I got mine today....  :headbang:

Really? I thought Mrs M was out of town?
 :laughing4:
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 04, 2010, 07:37:30 PM
I got mine today....  :headbang:

Really? I thought Mrs M was out of town?
 :laughing4:
Tex... :nono: :nono: :nono:
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: J.Jirehs Roaster on November 05, 2010, 06:53:12 AM
Sorta on/off the subject. Does anyone know if the Kone will fit into the large Mellita?

I think the pointy bottom will make it hard to work with the melitta..
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 05, 2010, 06:59:57 AM
Sorta on/off the subject. Does anyone know if the Kone will fit into the large Mellita?

I think the pointy bottom will make it hard to work with the melitta..

I have a large Cilio (same shape) and will test the KONE in it next week for you.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 05, 2010, 08:20:07 AM
Sorta on/off the subject. Does anyone know if the Kone will fit into the large Mellita?

I think the pointy bottom will make it hard to work with the melitta..

I have a large Cilio (same shape) and will test the KONE in it next week for you.

B|Java

I can drill out that Cilio for you...  ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Ray T on November 05, 2010, 11:17:59 AM
Hmmmm   11:16 and no word or pictures from milo  ???
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 05, 2010, 11:44:47 AM
Hmmmm   11:16 and no word or pictures from milo  ???

At his age he probably forgot he was going to test it this morning. ;D

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Ringo on November 05, 2010, 11:53:44 AM
Maybe his wife found it, took away the computer and sent him to his room with no coffee?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 05, 2010, 11:58:30 AM
Maybe his wife found it, took away the computer and sent him to his room with no coffee?



What's that she wrote on the cone?

(http://www.delawareemploymentlawblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/dunce-cap.jpg)

 >:D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 05, 2010, 02:23:52 PM
Hey, now some of us do work for a living ;D

I'm going to check it out when I get home today... in about an hour from now.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Marshall_S on November 05, 2010, 03:29:35 PM
Allrighty! ;D

We've all ordered one and we've been waiting for you to give us the word....
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 05, 2010, 04:45:57 PM
in about an hour from now.

Dude....
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 05, 2010, 05:19:06 PM
Larry,

tick tock tick tock...
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: J.Jirehs Roaster on November 05, 2010, 06:27:03 PM
update from Larry's house...
bad news... a full bag of greens fell on the cone..
good news it fits in the mellita now
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 05, 2010, 06:32:40 PM
update from Larry's house...
bad news... a full bag of greens fell on the cone..
good news it fits in the mellita now

maybe its under warranty ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: cfsheridan on November 05, 2010, 07:58:03 PM
Larry and his KONE have achieved the coffee singularity.  I doubt we non-transcendent will hear from him again.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 05, 2010, 07:59:39 PM
Larry and his KONE have achieved the coffee singularity.  I doubt we non-transcendent will hear from him again.

In that case I better order one so that I too can go through the looking glass and help get back home.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 05, 2010, 08:08:46 PM
..I too can go through the looking glass and help get back home.

To be safe you need some sort or tether...

Maybe put a small handful of green coffee in your pocket before you go.   ;)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 05, 2010, 08:15:16 PM
My guess is Larry had to take Mrs M out to a nice restaurant to atone for his sinful & compulsive buying habits. :angel:


"Hey dude, if Canlis is still around it'll make up for a lot of those espresso machines you've been dragging home!"
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 05, 2010, 08:38:16 PM
I finally buckled down and ordered mine.
Wish I had purchased earlier so I could play with it over the weekend.
I've enjoyed doing pourovers in my shop all week (except for the nasty super-papery filters I'm using)!
Thanks for making this happen Keith! Jesse Kahn at World Bean said he had some on the way to NYC. Stumptown is using them in NYC as well I think. Sounds like the KONE is being very well received.


Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 06, 2010, 09:28:59 AM
I'm back.  Crazy day a work yesterday.  Got home and squeezed in ~ 1 hour to roast some coffee and do a pourover comparison of the Kone and the Swiss gold with the Canaan Brazil.... then off to dinner at a friends house.  No time to post this yesterday

I first did a pourover using the Kone cause I couldn't wait.  Then followed it with one from the swiss gold.

Same coffee, same grind, same bean weight same amount of water.

Maybe I'm biased but at first use I have to say the extraction is slightly different between the Kone and the swiss gold.  I seemed the beginning of the extraction in the Kone is slower and stays at about the same rate throughout the pour.  The swiss gold was faster at first then slowed down.

In the cup the Kone pour had a little more body and mouthfeel than the swiss gold.  The Canaan had aromas of Caramel, and green apples.  The caramel apple seemed to be more pronounced using the Kone and the body seemed larger.

I plan to do a few more comparisons over the weekend, but my first impression is the Kone is better.

I wish the Kone had a lip at the top because in my Bodum Bistro the Kone wants to tilt a little bit (remember it's made to fit a Chemex).

Here are a few photos of the setup.

The 3rd one show a closeup of the outside of the Kone... note the cone shape of the holes..... for those who think they can make one of these...... good luck with that.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: mp on November 06, 2010, 09:32:39 AM
Thanks for posting your notes Larry.

 :)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 06, 2010, 10:18:37 AM
Larry, it's hard to see in your second photo, but is the Kone only touching the funnel along the top rim?

Next, you'll have to brew both into identical mugs and have Mrs. Milo switch them around for a blind test, maybe through in a third mug of something else too.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 06, 2010, 10:30:11 AM
Larry, it's hard to see in your second photo, but is the Kone only touching the funnel along the top rim?


yes, that's why the Kone tends to tilt.  My Chemex should be here later in the week and I'll try both again in it.

Quote
Next, you'll have to brew both into identical mugs and have Mrs. Milo switch them around for a blind test, maybe through in a third mug of something else too.

Yep agreed, blind tasting will determine more, when the Chemex arrives I'll use the Swiss gold in the Bodum, the Kone in the Chemex and use the same cups.... my other latte cups were dirty yesterday so I used two clean cups...  :angel:
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 06, 2010, 03:23:26 PM
Cool picture of the holes. You should take a photo of the Swiss Gold filter as a comparison. Just so people who might not be familiar can see the difference.

It would be neat to see visually how the pour looks through both filters if there is any real difference at all visually of the extraction.

I noticed you are stating "Slightly" when comparing your notes.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 07, 2010, 07:46:54 AM
Just a reminder that the KONE coupon code expires in a couple more days.
If you're on the fence or waiting until last minture don't wait too long...
or you might be sad.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 07, 2010, 08:08:31 AM
Just a reminder that the KONE coupon code expires in a couple more days.
If you're on the fence or waiting until last minture don't wait too long...
or you might be sad.

 Just FYI after the coupon code expires this will be moved to the hardware discussion so that everyone who has bought one can continue the conversation of their new toy.


I understand Mark that you have a vested interest in the KONE because you were the initial contact for these, but I would tone down the sales pitch. The word is out and interested parties are buying them. Your last 3 posts make you appear that you have an interest in moving these beyond what a contact for a coupon code should. Let Kevin from KONE talk about and pitch his product since he is a member of our forums and can do so himself.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: YasBean on November 07, 2010, 09:44:36 AM
Just a reminder that the KONE coupon code expires in a couple more days.
If you're on the fence or waiting until last minture don't wait too long...
or you might be sad.

 Just FYI after the coupon code expires this will be moved to the hardware discussion so that everyone who has bought one can continue the conversation of their new toy.


I understand Mark that you have a vested interest in the KONE because you were the initial contact for these, but I would tone down the sales pitch. The word is out and interested parties are buying them. Your last 3 posts make you appear that you have an interest in moving these beyond what a contact for a coupon code should. Let Kevin from KONE talk about and pitch his product since he is a member of our forums and can do so himself.
There are two very effective sales techniques: 1) everyone else is buying one; 2) time is limited.  I become wary when I am offered a limited-time discount.  Discounts like the Newco deal are nice, because you can buy when you have decided that you need a new toy. 
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 07, 2010, 12:47:52 PM
Just a reminder that the KONE coupon code expires in a couple more days.
If you're on the fence or waiting until last minture don't wait too long...
or you might be sad.

Thanks for the friendly reminder.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: northwestmark on November 07, 2010, 02:15:07 PM
sorry about seeming to be pitching the product.
It was just meant as a friendly reminder that the deal isn't available forever and that I spent at least 3hrs working out details for it, so yes there is a "time" investment on my part. This is my last post on it.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 07, 2010, 02:37:00 PM
sorry about seeming to be pitching the product.
It was just meant as a friendly reminder that the deal isn't available forever and that I spent at least 3hrs working out details for it, so yes there is a "time" investment on my part. This is my last post on it.



Mark,

I appreciate the background work.  Gents, order up byThursday, Nov 11th if you want the GCBC discount:
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.msg164108#msg164108 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.msg164108#msg164108)

Fullest review out there so far comes from Jesse Raub who works at one of Intelli's Chitown shops.  http://bitterpress.com/2010/11/03/reviews-coavas-kone-filter/#more-2731. (http://bitterpress.com/2010/11/03/reviews-coavas-kone-filter/#more-2731.)  You might not want your 12 year old read this review aloud at your dinner table.



B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 07, 2010, 03:56:40 PM
sorry about seeming to be pitching the product.
It was just meant as a friendly reminder that the deal isn't available forever and that I spent at least 3hrs working out details for it, so yes there is a "time" investment on my part. This is my last post on it.



Mark,

I appreciate the background work.  Gents, order up byThursday, Nov 11th if you want the GCBC discount:
[url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.msg164108#msg164108[/url] ([url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.msg164108#msg164108[/url])

Fullest review out there so far comes from Jesse Raub who works at one of Intelli's Chitown shops.  [url]http://bitterpress.com/2010/11/03/reviews-coavas-kone-filter/#more-2731.[/url] ([url]http://bitterpress.com/2010/11/03/reviews-coavas-kone-filter/#more-2731.[/url])  You might not want your 12 year old read this review aloud at your dinner table.



B|Java



I am tempted to throw the whole review down the drain with this major misstatement on quite a few levels.

"Now some people might say that this is just a reinterpretation of the Swiss Gold basket that drip makers have. I say phooey. Those baskets are a fine metal mesh. The Kone is something different altogether. It’s a single sheet of stainless steel that’s been wrapped into a cone shape, and has a strange array of holes punched through it at different intervals."
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 07, 2010, 04:44:31 PM
I'd be tempted to try and use it on a stand alone "stand".

Maybe like a metal loop that holds it at the top and the rest of the kone is in open air.

That might be fun.

I'm waiting for more GCBC reviews.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 07, 2010, 04:54:56 PM
I'd be tempted to try and use it on a stand alone "stand".

Maybe like a metal loop that holds it at the top and the rest of the kone is in open air.

That might be fun.


You may like this idea.  This is how I do pourovers when I'm not using my BeeHouse.

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 07, 2010, 05:36:55 PM
You may like this idea.  This is how I do pourovers when I'm not using my BeeHouse.

Exactly what I had in mind.

Bring that set up over to the next Cabal meeting, do a side by side shoot out, and end all speculation on what's what.  8)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: J.Jirehs Roaster on November 07, 2010, 05:43:20 PM

There are two very effective sales techniques: 1) everyone else is buying one; 2) time is limited.  I become wary when I am offered a limited-time discount.  Discounts like the Newco deal are nice, because you can buy when you have decided that you need a new toy. 

I appreciate all the leg work and R&D that has gone into this product and discounted distro here.. but I must agree that the short run discount distros are a little frustrating.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 07, 2010, 05:54:27 PM
I'd be tempted to try and use it on a stand alone "stand".

Maybe like a metal loop that holds it at the top and the rest of the kone is in open air.

That might be fun.


You may like this idea.  This is how I do pourovers when I'm not using my BeeHouse.

Lemme guess; that's from a sock brewer, right? ???
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 07, 2010, 08:46:22 PM
I'd be tempted to try and use it on a stand alone "stand".

Maybe like a metal loop that holds it at the top and the rest of the kone is in open air.

That might be fun.


You may like this idea.  This is how I do pourovers when I'm not using my BeeHouse.

Lemme guess; that's from a sock brewer, right? ???

The second pic would remind one of some unprocessed Kopi Luwak.  :icon_puke_r:

Bring that set up over to the next Cabal meeting, do a side by side shoot out, and end all speculation on what's what.  8)

The wire hoop sits into a block glued in one of my kitchen drawers and thus isn't portable.  But maybe I can get da bums over here...
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Ascholten on November 07, 2010, 09:35:57 PM
What grade of stainless steel is this thing made of?

Aaron
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 09, 2010, 07:16:57 AM
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.msg164108#msg164108 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.msg164108#msg164108)

Clock is ticking for the discount which Coava is offering -- ends Thurs, Nov 11.  Mine is on the truck with Mr. Brown for an early evening delivery.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 09, 2010, 03:50:50 PM
Thought I would publish some pictures so you can get an idea some the KONE sits in filters.  I will have to round up the Chemex as well.

This is the KONE sitting in the #4 Cilio (5" inner diameter, 4" depth).  Sits tightly against the raised ridges, not wobbling on its tip, even though the Cilio has a \_/ shape.   The \_/ Swiss Gold (front) and Bunn Gold (rear) are off to the left.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 09, 2010, 03:55:07 PM
For comparison, are the 3 in comparison.

Bunn, left, sitting on an 01 Hario. 
Swiss Gold, center, on a 02 Hario.
KONE, right, sitting on an 4 Cilio.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 09, 2010, 03:56:34 PM
The KONE appears to fit the 01 Hario, the 02 Hario, the #4 Cilio, but the fit in the Beehouse is a no-go, a wobbler.  Seen here in the 02 Hario.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 09, 2010, 04:04:37 PM
Chemex from above
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 09, 2010, 04:06:56 PM
Chemex eye level.  The wording you see is not as pronounced as it appears; lighting creates the effect.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Stubbie on November 09, 2010, 04:51:31 PM
I'm firing up the kettle right now for my first try with mine!

Off to the other thread for the brewing instructions...

-Stubbie
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 09, 2010, 05:25:18 PM
I'm firing up the kettle right now for my first try with mine!

Off to the other thread for the brewing instructions...

-Stubbie

I will use my standard pourover ratios and give it a whirl in the a.m.  Too late for coffee.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: mp on November 10, 2010, 04:20:02 AM
Look forward to your Bold review.

 :)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 10, 2010, 04:31:00 AM
1st cup in the KONE.  (Pictured below is KONE sitting in the Chemex during the 45 second bloom I use).

Grind:  drip/pourover grind on a MACAP 4
Coffee amount:  39.6 grams (Guat at full city)
Water amount:  23 ounces -> 21.5 coffee
Instrument:  Chemex
Pour duration:  2:30 post-bloom.  One slow continuous pour.  Water sat tight during the bloom and probably 20 seconds into the pour.  I found the water moved through better than it does with the papers (Melitta whites).

Cup.  Extremely clean. None Little of the silt in comparison to both the Bodum Gold and the Swissgold.  Oils are much more present than with the Hario/Beehouse paper arrangements. (edit Dec 1)  

Clean-up?  Lift the KONE right at the indentation of the pour lip when the grounds are dry.  Go outside, give it a quick hit to the palm, wipe with a finger, shake the finger, give thanks for the day.  Wash in a citrus oil based detergent.  Good to go.

Recommendation.  A worthy additional to the arsenal in this humble cupper's estimation.

Down the road?
1.  This weekend, try the same coffee in a side by side with a Hario paper prep vs a Hario KONE arrangement.
2.  Get Ryan (Roast Coffee) over here with his TDS meter (can't remember the name of that thingamabob).  He loves data.
3.  Put the KONE head to head with the Hario with paper (Melittas), Swissgold, Bodum gold.  Measure TDS, cup quality,etc and report back.  Will be a fun experiment.
(Note: I won't go near a Chemex brown filter.  To me they are similar to using newspaper to filter your coffee).

For now?  I recommend to whom?
1.  Buy if you like a rich cup with plenty of oils
2.  Enjoy a clean cup, without the (heavy) silt that golds tend to offer (edit Dec 1)
3.  Want to move away from paper for taste, costs, or "green factor"

My guess is that it will become my pourover insert in the Hario - pending a try this weekend.  Chemex cools so quickly whereas the small ceramic pot I brew in holds it warm enough for the Czarina.

Follow-up.  I will touch base with Keith.  The edge of the filter is a tad sharp and should be crimped, buffed or dulled to make it less 'edgy.'  Watch your hands when you empty it.

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 10, 2010, 04:51:02 AM
I hate being so far East Coast sometimes....

My Kone arrives tomorrow.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on November 10, 2010, 05:18:11 AM
No silt? Really? If so, that's a stunning development for this class of metal filter.

Filter stalling has been an issue with some form factors too. How's flow rate compared with, say, paper?

Maybe I'll find one in my stocking this year.    ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Marshall_S on November 10, 2010, 05:28:28 AM
Me too - Mine is on today's brown truck ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 10, 2010, 05:50:05 AM

My guess is that it will become my pourover insert in the Hario - pending a try this weekend.  


Strongest endorsement I've seen so far.

 
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: mp on November 10, 2010, 06:37:40 AM
Thank you for the informative review Mr. B|Kone.

 :)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 10, 2010, 06:45:25 AM
Awesome photos and review. Thank you!

Yes please be careful with the edges and the tip of the filter. They will get you if you are too quick with the cleaning or catch it mid air point in palm. A local didnt want to dent his kone and caught it mid air point first. I felt really bad when he told me while I made his coffee at the cafe. He was a good sport about it. I might be looking into getting the sides and point a little safer. Again please be aware that the point is fairly sharp.

Thanks again for the all the support everyone!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 10, 2010, 07:02:25 AM
No silt? Really? If so, that's a stunning development for this class of metal filter.

Filter stalling has been an issue with some form factors too. How's flow rate compared with, say, paper?


Two points.  Silt:  with the golds, I discern a texture <?> feel in the mouthfeel that I attribute to fines.  The KONE does not have that same mouthfeel for me-- this is "cleaner." That is subjective on my part and it will be interesting to see if the TDS meter bears that out.  Second, there was a slight amount of silt in the the dregs -- final swig -- of the third and last cup. It is a small amount compared to the golds and didn't affect the mouthfeel during the cup, which is important to me.

Flow vs paper - While it had a great flow in the Chemex, the pouring needs to be compared to paper on the Hario 02, not the Chemex.  No 'pause and pour' needed with the Chemex; the extraction kept right up with my 2:30 continuous pour.  I want you to get one for Christmas as I can already hear the minutia and physics you will get into as you review Milo's micro-shot on the holes and then explain the flow in terms I can't quite get my arms around <grins>.  Your wife needs (not should, needs) to put this on your Christmas list.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 10, 2010, 07:17:54 AM
Quote
2.  Get Ryan (Roast Coffee) over here with his TDS meter (can't remember the name of that thingamabob).  He loves data.
3.  Put the KONE head to head with the Hario with paper (Melittas), Swissgold, Bodum gold.  Measure TDS, cup quality,etc and report back.  Will be a fun experiment.
(Note: I won't go near a Chemex brown filter.  To me they are similar to using newspaper to filter your coffee).


I stopped and chatted with Ryan (http://roastcoffeecompany.com (http://roastcoffeecompany.com)) over a macchiatto.  He has the TDS meter shined and ready to go.  Will put together a Friday afternoon at my place with Ryan, Peter and Jeff -- let the throwdown begin.  Ryan can bring the meter; will get mitres for all of us and we can be called the MadKupperKappers.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 10, 2010, 08:42:23 AM
Bet the B|Konehead didn't need an alarm clock this morning, laid awake all night thinking about the new toy.

We have to figure a way to brew and test blind.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Jeffo on November 10, 2010, 09:54:23 AM
What's the cost? Sorry if I missed it.

It may be too 'clean' for me and I probably don't want to spend money on it but it's interesting.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 10, 2010, 12:48:23 PM
I'm waiting for more GCBC reviews.

So far only 1 review in and at least 2-3 awaiting

This is what we have so far:
"Maybe I'm biased but at first use I have to say the extraction is slightly different between the Kone and the swiss gold.  I seemed the beginning of the extraction in the Kone is slower and stays at about the same rate throughout the pour.  The swiss gold was faster at first then slowed down.

In the cup the Kone pour had a little more body and mouthfeel than the swiss gold.  The Canaan had aromas of Caramel, and green apples.  The caramel apple seemed to be more pronounced using the Kone and the body seemed larger."
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on November 10, 2010, 12:49:01 PM
What's the cost? Sorry if I missed it.

$50.

 :o
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 10, 2010, 12:53:03 PM
B|Java's review here

http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10723.0 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10723.0)

Quote
Cup.  Extremely clean. None of the silt that I experience with both the Bodum Gold and the Swissgold.  Oils are much more present than with the Hario/Beehouse paper arrangements.  Improved cup over golds and paper. 
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 10, 2010, 12:56:22 PM
$40 until tomorrow with the GCBC discount.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 10, 2010, 01:03:32 PM
good now we have 2 reviews in.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ecc on November 10, 2010, 01:26:30 PM
Mine is here! A quick wash and then checked it out with some B|Java Kona I had waiting for it.

22g Kona, medium grind, got 10 oz in the cup in about 2 minutes after bloom.  Made a super nice cup for the first try.  It sure seemed to flow much faster in the beginning, it dribbled even during the bloom on a really fresh roast. (36 hours rest)

I prefer the body and sharpness over the pour-over paper filters, and it is noticeably cleaner tasting than a french press.  It seems to highlight different flavors than my glass rod vacpot, my first thought is that it maybe had a touch more body as well.  Certainly worth careful comparison over a range of different coffees, different volumes, etc.

Very interesting coffee toy, will have no problem showing it off to the locals, thanks and congrats to Keith and Coava!


Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 10, 2010, 01:30:43 PM
Why have 2 threads for the same topic?

http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.0 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.0)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Tex on November 10, 2010, 01:31:31 PM
good now we have 2 reviews in.


Good; that goes well with 2 threads on this topic.

http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10723.0 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10723.0)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: kelppaddy on November 10, 2010, 01:41:00 PM
I would like to see blind test of the same coffee using different methods of brewing.

kp
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 10, 2010, 01:45:45 PM
Why have 2 threads for the same topic?

[url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.0[/url] ([url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.0[/url])


The other thread is the vendor's offer, soon to expire.  This forum offers an on-going thread discussing its use.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 10, 2010, 01:54:11 PM
I would like to see blind test .....


Is that possible? ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 10, 2010, 02:02:28 PM
Bet the B|Konehead didn't need an alarm clock this morning, laid awake all night thinking about the new toy.

Ho, Moses, you know me.

When the clock went off this morning, I was very disoriented.  I thought it was Saturday, whisked down the stairs and was ready for a solo throw down. When I saw my office briefcase, I knew it was Tuesday (aka Wednesday) and that there was no time for a head-to-head.

Quote
We have to figure a way to brew and test blind.

I don't know how to do that other than me managing the preps and the 3 of you being the 3 Blind Mice.  I would be fine with doing that.  We can meter the TDS post-cup.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 10, 2010, 02:42:59 PM
Who's who?

Follow the bouncing ball.

"She cut off their tails with a carving knife...
  Did you ever see such a sight in your life as...

Three blind mice.  Three blind mice."
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 10, 2010, 03:04:09 PM
Mine arrived a day early. Kone fits the CCD like a glove:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/1aaf5e7e.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/e52cb606.jpg)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ecc on November 10, 2010, 03:05:30 PM
Hehe, see a blind test. 

Everyone knows what he really means.  I'm practicing by brewing in really low light first, then when I get good at it...
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 10, 2010, 03:14:51 PM
Why have 2 threads for the same topic?

[url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.0[/url] ([url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10664.0[/url])


3 threads actually (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10691Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.12) Gecko/20101026 Firefox/3.6.12 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729) - Build ID: 20101026210630.0).  :)

Perhaps one of the mods can work their magic and merge all the relevant posts into one thread.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 10, 2010, 03:38:15 PM

Perhaps one of the mods can work their magic and merge all the relevant posts into one thread.

I put the thread I started this morning on top of yours so that there is one review/tips/tricks.  Suggest we leave the other thread alone as it is the offer.

Milo can add his review to your thread/this thread if he finds that appropriate.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: cfsheridan on November 10, 2010, 03:49:02 PM
Mine arrived today.  I plan on trying with my newest fad--courtesy of Nick Cho (and slightly modified).  Clever + swiss gold KONE + paper filter nylon filter.

Gold + Paper + Clever (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK3iJYFZuZE#ws)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 10, 2010, 05:25:04 PM

Perhaps one of the mods can work their magic and merge all the relevant posts into one thread.

I put the thread I started this morning on top of yours so that there is one review/tips/tricks.  Suggest we leave the other thread alone as it is the offer.

Milo can add his review to your thread/this thread if he finds that appropriate.

B|Java
I think it would be easier if I just did another comparison and started a 4th thread. >:D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Ascholten on November 10, 2010, 05:51:55 PM
You could invite ray charles and stevie wonder over for coffee.  that'd be about as blind a taste test as you can get  :groan:  .

Aaron
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 10, 2010, 06:53:32 PM
Cool picture of the holes. You should take a photo of the Swiss Gold filter as a comparison. Just so people who might not be familiar can see the difference.

It would be neat to see visually how the pour looks through both filters if there is any real difference at all visually of the extraction.  
Here ya go
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 10, 2010, 09:50:35 PM
That's what I'm talking about! Larry!

The herringbone style slits look like they let quite a bit more coffee flow through them.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 10, 2010, 09:52:34 PM
I would like to see blind test of the same coffee using different methods of brewing.

kp

I think I am with you on this one.

But what I am really interested in is Vac Pot vs. everything ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: thugmusk on November 11, 2010, 05:12:47 AM
You could invite ray charles and stevie wonder over for coffee.

In a tennis match it's endless love.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 11, 2010, 05:21:06 AM
This morning I ran a larger amount of coffee through the KONE into the Chemex, ending with a 42 ounce end-result.  The extraction and drip stayed right with my pour.  It was a 3:10 pour for that volume of coffee (78 grams), resulting in the same clean cup, full of oils, with some silt at the bottom of the last cup.

Score one for Coava Coffee.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 11, 2010, 07:54:39 AM
I also had my first run with the Kone in conjunction with the CCD this morning. I'm still surprised at how well the Kone fits into the CCD, almost like it was made for it. Doesn't even interfere with the updated version of the CCD with the lid.

The Kone produced a very good cup; nuanced without bitterness. A few fines did manage to make their way into my mug but it didn't seem to effect the flavor. Thumbs up.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 11, 2010, 08:49:06 AM
That's what I'm talking about! Larry!

The herringbone style slits look like they let quite a bit more coffee flow through them.

A thought just popped into my head, that hasn't been vetted yet, but here goes anyway...

The swiss gold was made for the showerhead in a coffee maker, so it needs a faster flow-through.  The Kone was made for slow, controlled, pouring.  The only way to slow down a SG is to clog the openings with silt/fines.

Asking a SG to work well as a pourover is asking it to do something it wasn't designed for.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Warrior372 on November 11, 2010, 10:25:00 AM
Here is a mixed video from the oregonian on pourover coffee. If you fast forward 50 seconds into the video you start to get input from one of the Coava guy's on use of the Kone / their technique. The video flashes between 3 different shops making pourover coffee. They do have Coava's full routine on the video though. http://www.oregonlive.com/foodday/index.ssf/2010/11/all-analog_coffee_hand-brewed.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/foodday/index.ssf/2010/11/all-analog_coffee_hand-brewed.html)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 11, 2010, 02:07:44 PM
Heh, heh, slid a 2nd order in.  Santa will visit the daughter in the Twin Cities, 02 Hario.  Poy-fect.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 11, 2010, 03:13:08 PM
Heh, heh, slid a 2nd order in.  Santa will visit the daughter in the Twin Cities, 02 Hario.  Poy-fect.

B|Java

I'm interested in your clean-up with the citrus-based detergent.  Have you noticed any residual flavor yet from the cleaner?  Normally, detergent and coffee equipment aren't used in the same sentence.  I notice with my Bodum gold filter when I use a normal soap to clean it I can rinse all day long and the next cup will still taste like the cleaner.

Also, if I find the rim to be sharp/hazardous to my delicate skin  ;) I'm thinking about a small diameter tube of rubber or silicone, sliced down its length, then installed around the rim.  It would not only protect, but also be a good gripper.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 11, 2010, 03:24:39 PM
...I'm interested in your clean-up with the citrus-based detergent.  Have you noticed any residual flavor yet from the cleaner?  Normally, detergent and coffee equipment aren't used in the same sentence.  I notice with my Bodum gold filter when I use a normal soap to clean it I can rinse all day long and the next cup will still taste like the cleaner.

I don't detect any residual soap.  Grab a few ounces when you are over next time and see what you experience.

Quote

Also, if I find the rim to be sharp/hazardous to my delicate skin  ;) I'm thinking about a small diameter tube of rubber or silicone, sliced down its length, then installed around the rim.  It would not only protect, but also be a good gripper.

You have to buy one to mod it.  I think your suggestion would be a good one.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Coava Roasters on November 11, 2010, 03:37:48 PM
Heh, heh, slid a 2nd order in.  Santa will visit the daughter in the Twin Cities, 02 Hario.  Poy-fect.

B|Java

I'm interested in your clean-up with the citrus-based detergent.  Have you noticed any residual flavor yet from the cleaner?  Normally, detergent and coffee equipment aren't used in the same sentence.  I notice with my Bodum gold filter when I use a normal soap to clean it I can rinse all day long and the next cup will still taste like the cleaner.

Also, if I find the rim to be sharp/hazardous to my delicate skin  ;) I'm thinking about a small diameter tube of rubber or silicone, sliced down its length, then installed around the rim.  It would not only protect, but also be a good gripper.

We were thinking of a similar application of the rubber/silicone for our bar use. This will also make sure that the filter stays a true "floating" design. Good idea with the mod.

We use seventh generation fragrance free soap to wash them. I LOVE that soap. I use it for all my dishes at home also. It cleans really well drys perfect and leaves no sent or taste. I would recommend trying it.

Best regards,
Keith
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 11, 2010, 03:52:13 PM
...
We use seventh generation fragrance free soap to wash them. I LOVE that soap. I use it for all my dishes at home also. It cleans really well drys perfect and leaves no sent or taste. I would recommend trying it.

Best regards,
Keith


I have used it but like Ultra Dishmate even better:

"... Made with coconut oil based surfactants, salt, 100% grapefruit oil."  Also use the Pear selection ... same ingredients except for pear oil rather than grapefruit.

http://www.ecos.com/images/9722_DishmateGrapefruit.jpg (http://www.ecos.com/images/9722_DishmateGrapefruit.jpg)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Jeffo on November 11, 2010, 03:54:24 PM
Most excellent Milo.

I've been able to pour through a Swiss Gold cone filter pretty slowly, even slow enough to have some still going down when I'm done pouring. It has to be very slow.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: J.Jirehs Roaster on November 11, 2010, 03:55:20 PM
Heh, heh, slid a 2nd order in.  Santa will visit the daughter in the Twin Cities, 02 Hario.  Poy-fect.

B|Java

I'm interested in your clean-up with the citrus-based detergent.  Have you noticed any residual flavor yet from the cleaner?  Normally, detergent and coffee equipment aren't used in the same sentence.  I notice with my Bodum gold filter when I use a normal soap to clean it I can rinse all day long and the next cup will still taste like the cleaner.

Also, if I find the rim to be sharp/hazardous to my delicate skin  ;) I'm thinking about a small diameter tube of rubber or silicone, sliced down its length, then installed around the rim.  It would not only protect, but also be a good gripper.

We were thinking of a similar application of the rubber/silicone for our bar use. This will also make sure that the filter stays a true "floating" design. Good idea with the mod.

We use seventh generation fragrance free soap to wash them. I LOVE that soap. I use it for all my dishes at home also. It cleans really well drys perfect and leaves no sent or taste. I would recommend trying it.

Best regards,
Keith

should have called your patent attorney on that one peter.. maybe you could be the official Coava KONE mod tester?? ~wink~
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Jeffo on November 11, 2010, 05:03:53 PM
We use seventh generation fragrance free soap to wash them. I LOVE that soap. I use it for all my dishes at home also. It cleans really well drys perfect and leaves no sent or taste. I would recommend trying it.
Keith

I'd probably use sixth generation because it would be cheaper and I don't always need the latest.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 12, 2010, 05:14:08 AM

The only way to slow down a SG is to clog the openings with silt/fines.

Asking a SG to work well as a pourover is asking it to do something it wasn't designed for.

I'd have to spend some time with a SG but I suspect you can control a lot with pour and not "clogging the openings with silt".

Aside from that think about a grain bed in brewing beer. It's not necessarily silt or fines that can produce a filtering media bed.....this may be where a careful bloom and initial pour make a significant impact...

But I'm not a SG guy and don't plan on testing it, just making some assumptions that I'd bet a few bucks on.  ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Ascholten on November 12, 2010, 05:30:45 AM
Seventh Generation fragrance free soap?
YOu mean this??

Grandma's Lye Soap (It's In the Book) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr_XQjBEgzk#)


If you are tasting soap when you do your next cup of coffee then do a water run.  Pour water through it only to get what ever is remaining out, then do your coffee and it should solve the problem.

Aaron
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 12, 2010, 08:50:47 AM

The only way to slow down a SG is to clog the openings with silt/fines.

Asking a SG to work well as a pourover is asking it to do something it wasn't designed for.

I'd have to spend some time with a SG but I suspect you can control a lot with pour and not "clogging the openings with silt".

Aside from that think about a grain bed in brewing beer. It's not necessarily silt or fines that can produce a filtering media bed.....this may be where a careful bloom and initial pour make a significant impact...

But I'm not a SG guy and don't plan on testing it, just making some assumptions that I'd bet a few bucks on.  ;D

John...Word!

Peter- I haven't tested the KONE and don't plan on dropping $50 or over $50 at this point for the privilege to do so, but my friend used to say - "It's better to be looking at it than for it" and with something like flow rates I think there could be some of that involved to a point if you don't have enough flow rate you can't create it without drilling holes etc.....See technivorm mods. Looking at the KONE which is basically (according the pictures) a very similar concept to the swiss gold filters with the holes patterned for a more restricted flow rate, it looks like there is plenty of flow rate and it might be a better flow rate for the shape? who knows? I'm sure all the beta testers will let us know...so its probably a non issue.

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on November 12, 2010, 09:09:36 AM
Heh, heh, slid a 2nd order in.  Santa will visit the daughter in the Twin Cities, 02 Hario.  Poy-fect.

B|Java

I'm interested in your clean-up with the citrus-based detergent.  Have you noticed any residual flavor yet from the cleaner?  Normally, detergent and coffee equipment aren't used in the same sentence.  I notice with my Bodum gold filter when I use a normal soap to clean it I can rinse all day long and the next cup will still taste like the cleaner.

Also, if I find the rim to be sharp/hazardous to my delicate skin  ;) I'm thinking about a small diameter tube of rubber or silicone, sliced down its length, then installed around the rim.  It would not only protect, but also be a good gripper.

We were thinking of a similar application of the rubber/silicone for our bar use. This will also make sure that the filter stays a true "floating" design. Good idea with the mod.

We use seventh generation fragrance free soap to wash them. I LOVE that soap. I use it for all my dishes at home also. It cleans really well drys perfect and leaves no sent or taste. I would recommend trying it.

Best regards,
Keith

I would take a fine file to the edge and point before I tried the silicone tube trick, I think the silicone if not applied with some sort of glue would simply slip off too easily. it's too bad there aren't tabs or a tab at the opening to grab. On my Boil kettle for brewing (I cut open a hole in a Keg, I have yet to fashion a functional lid from the cut out part, but it had some sharp edges that a file/wire brush took care of.

Edit: What about a stainless gasket or very large opening washer basically a flat ring slightly smaller diameter than the opening in the cone. It could be like a KONE nest
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 13, 2010, 03:49:15 AM
This a.m. I wanted to see how the KONE performed in the Hario as I have been using my Chemex all week with it.  

Matched it with the Hario 01 this morning.  Works.  The KONE sits on the raised ridges perfectly, with the point descending into the large open space at the base.  The arrangement takes me back to Rasqual's point that he made months ago about the Hario giving the barista the control.  I find that the KONE, more than paper, helps me on that route.  It keeps up with my pour, whether slow which is my path or more quickly. This might work against the cup if you pour too quickly, an inadvertent advantage of paper which will restrain the pour.  The KONE seems to permit you to get ahead of yourself.  I may have gotten ahead of myself on the pour this morning as the oils don't seem quite as pronounced out of the Hario arrangement than they did out of the Chemex.

One attempt in the Hario is insufficient.  I have worked with the same Guat all week to ensure consistency.  I will continue to work with the Hario (01 and 02) as well as the Cilio (04) and report back.  My preliminary conclusion is that it was my technique rather than the Hario that created a slightly less rich, less complex , less depth to the cup.  

The second thing I have noted this week is that the KONE more easily keeps the grounds "in motion," or engaged.  With paper, I find that the last 1/5 of the pour has a tendency to "puddle," where the grounds have descended below the pour and the water almost "caps" the grounds.   With the KONE, I have found that the grounds seem to engage with the pour for almost the entire pour, without the puddling effect.

This morning's cup:
Hario 01 with the KONE
21 grams medium/drip/pourover grind: 11 ounce cup
30 second bloom
1:30 pour

Very good but not as complex a cup as it was from the Chemex.  More pours pending.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 13, 2010, 07:43:14 AM
I'm not clear on what type of cup you guys are getting.

I'm reading cleaner, brighter, more body, oils, no silt, less silt, comparisons to vac pot and french press, as well as one of Clover.

These things are contradictory.  :icon_scratch:

Is it cleaner brighter cups trending towards vac/Clover or deeper body and oil cups trending towards FP or SG/pourovers?

Obviously not exactly like one of the other preps but it must be trending towards a direction and not going off in all directions simultaneously.  :o
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 13, 2010, 07:58:04 AM
I'm not clear on what type of cup you guys are getting.

I'm reading cleaner, brighter, more body, oils, no silt, less silt, comparisons to vac pot and french press, as well as one of Clover.

These things are contradictory.  :icon_scratch:

Is it cleaner brighter cups trending towards vac/Clover or deeper body and oil cups trending towards FP or SG/pourovers?

Obviously not exactly like one of the other preps but it must be trending towards a direction and not going off in all directions simultaneously.  :o


Patience.  We will have a throw down some time before the holidays.  I don't see the contradiction but its clear that my words haven't presented an accurate picture for you.  

It may sound silly but maybe "you had to be there..." (have cupped it) and then the discussion is clearer? Our points of reference are different. For me:

^  Heavier than a ceramic/paper arrangement.  Oils and body are more pronounced.
^  Similar to golds but cleaner than golds (Bodum and Swiss).  Both end up with pronounced bodies and I prefer the KONE.  Looking forward to the head2head.
^  Close to a vacpot but a tad more body
^  Clean-bodied presspot (dialed back)
^  I see no difference in acidity/brightness in comparison to other preps
^  I have only has 2-3 Clovers (you might have meant Clevers?) in my life so I won't even venture a comparative guess
^  Clevers?  I defer to HC4U and the esteemed Squire on 86th Street.

Sorry John.  That is the best I can do for you.  Maybe our throwdown will help.  I can tell you it is a winner is this household and a worthy tool.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 13, 2010, 08:08:21 AM
 I don't see the contradiction but its clear that my words haven't presented an accurate picture for you.  

I'm looking at all the data and see the contradictions there, not with your words specific.

I do see that you are equating a clean cup to mainly an issue of silt/fines and clarity of cup (if I am understanding you). But I use some other factors that make a "clean cup" for me beyond just clarity. That might be a factor here....

I'll keep reading and after some other data points it should start to focus up I suppose.  
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 13, 2010, 08:16:12 AM
  I don't see the contradiction but its clear that my words haven't presented an accurate picture for you. 
...

I do see that you are equating a clean cup to mainly an issue of silt/fines and clarity of cup (if I am understanding you). But I use some other factors that make a "clean cup" for me beyond just clarity. That might be a factor here....

I'll keep reading and after some other data points is should start to focus up I suppose. 

That's fair.  I am also using it to be able to taste different aspects of the coffee.  It includes how it "presents" the coffee.
B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 13, 2010, 08:20:49 AM
I am also using it to be able to taste different aspects of the coffee.  It includes how it "presents" the coffee.

We could launch an entire discussion from here...  ;D

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 13, 2010, 08:22:38 AM



Quote
We could launch an entire discussion from here...  ;D

 No, we are staying on topic on the KONE! <grins>

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 13, 2010, 08:39:26 AM
Quote
The KONE seems to permit you to get ahead of yourself.  I may have gotten ahead of myself on the pour this morning as the oils don't seem quite as pronounced out of the Hario arrangement than they did out of the Chemex.

I brewed a test pot to determine if my supposition that the KONE will keep up with your pour (to the point of fault) was true or not.  It will.

I took 60 grams of a Puerto Rican coffee that is only good for a "sink-pot" with 32 ounces of water.  I really pushed the pour in a Chemex set-up.  I hustled the 32 ounces through the KONE in 1:45 minutes.  No way I could move that volume of water with paper.

That is not a KONE fault.  It is one more variable the barista has at her disposal. Be attentive to your pour rate.

After "sinking" the Puerto Rican pot (taps is played here), I arranged a 42 g amount in the Hario 02 for a 22 ounce ceramic pot.  Pour was 2:40 and the Guat that I have been using all week again had better body, more oils, and better structure.

Bingo - pour matters.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 13, 2010, 08:46:16 AM
Still waiting on my Kone...  but as far as the word 'clean' goes, I'd see two usages depending on context.  One would be the amount of silt allowed through, a physical cleanness.  Two, a cleanness that is inherent in a given coffee, whether it's a clean Costa Rica or a muddled Costa Rica.  The first 'clean' is a result of the brew method, the other 'clean' is a property of the coffee itself.

Now, it could be noted that a brew method that is 'cleaner' will allow a clean coffee to present itself as such, as opposed to a less clean brew method that allows more particulates though and the coffee presents itself less 'clean' than it really is.

Now that I've typed clean a dozen times, it strikes me as an odd word; the sound of the word doesn't describe what it means.  
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: John F on November 13, 2010, 12:09:22 PM

Now, it could be noted that a brew method that is 'cleaner' will allow a clean coffee to present itself as such, as opposed to a less clean brew method that allows more particulates though and the coffee presents itself less 'clean' than it really is.


That was going to be part of my eventual point....and I have some off shoots but B l thread captain wants to remain focused.  :-X

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on November 13, 2010, 05:49:02 PM
I took 60 grams of a Puerto Rican coffee that is only good for a "sink-pot" with 32 ounces of water.  I really pushed the pour in a Chemex set-up.  I hustled the 32 ounces through the KONE in 1:45 minutes.  No way I could move that volume of water with paper.

How about with a significantly finer grind?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 16, 2010, 05:14:47 AM
Not mine. KONE pour for those who wish to see it working in the Chemex.  I think he is a bit preoccupied with a tight circle for his pour (rather than a circular pour).  

42 grams coffee for 23 ounces of water:

Coavacoffee's Kone Brew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4r2teJ2f54#ws)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Stubbie on November 16, 2010, 05:39:44 AM
I just can't make sense of this style of pour.  Is there some type of voodoo magic turbulence going on under that dot of a pour?  Isn't the same coffee being extracted throughout?

Why would you put filter holes all the way up the Kone if you only *should* be using the bottom 1/4 of them?

-Stubbie
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 16, 2010, 11:19:40 AM
I just can't make sense of this style of pour.  Is there some type of voodoo magic turbulence going on under that dot of a pour?  Isn't the same coffee being extracted throughout?

Why would you put filter holes all the way up the Kone if you only *should* be using the bottom 1/4 of them?

-Stubbie

Agreed.   No reason just to pour immediately in the center.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 16, 2010, 04:03:30 PM
The Kone has landed.  Maybe they've worked over the edge, or maybe my hands belong to a working man and not a pencil-pusher, but the edge and tip don't seem all that hazardous.  I'll have to redo the circle on my cone-holder pourover gizmo, and tomorrow I'm good to go.

For some reason, as soon as I opened the box and took out the Kone, I had this old Madonna song going through my head.  I think I have to order a second one to find out why.  No worries, I promise not to post pics; your imaginations will have to suffice.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 16, 2010, 05:14:24 PM


For some reason, as soon as I opened the box and took out the Kone, I had this old Madonna song going through my head.  I think I have to order a second one to find out why.  No worries, I promise not to post pics; your imaginations will have to suffice.

You could always go over to B|half-Madonna's house instead of ordering a second one... I see a youtube video in the making!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on November 17, 2010, 07:15:21 AM
I'd be interested in knowing what kind of throughput there is for each hole in the thing.

Since determining that is theoretically possible (whereas with paper filters it's not) but utterly impracticaly, I wonder whether anyone observing the thing in action could give some idea of how consistent the throughput seems. Is there something akin to "channeling" at all? Is the throughput uniform from top to bottom? If not, how does it vary? How does pour aggression vary the throughput? By "throughput," I mean not just how much but more importantly how is that throughput distributed?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: MMW on November 17, 2010, 08:32:29 AM
I'd be interested in knowing what kind of throughput there is for each hole in the thing.

Since determining that is theoretically possible (whereas with paper filters it's not) but utterly impracticaly, I wonder whether anyone observing the thing in action could give some idea of how consistent the throughput seems. Is there something akin to "channeling" at all? Is the throughput uniform from top to bottom? If not, how does it vary? How does pour aggression vary the throughput? By "throughput," I mean not just how much but more importantly how is that throughput distributed?


Why not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darcy's_law)? 
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on November 17, 2010, 10:40:26 AM
;D

Empirical, my good man, empirical. I think a measurement approach with paper would be far more difficult than with the metal.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: MMW on November 17, 2010, 10:56:36 AM
;D

Empirical, my good man, empirical. I think a measurement approach with paper would be far more difficult than with the metal.

You don't know the permeability of coffee filter paper?  :P


(neither do I!)

Measuring the permeability of a coffee filter would probably make a pretty decent master's thesis.  ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: FinerGrind on November 17, 2010, 11:09:53 AM
God love these guys for their quest for the perfect brew:

http://www.tropicalsaloon.com/?p=107 (http://www.tropicalsaloon.com/?p=107)

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 17, 2010, 01:09:42 PM
I've been noticing a lot of silt with my Kone. Way more than I get with the FP. I haven't had time to mess around with the grind that much, so I'm hopping that's all I need to do.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on November 17, 2010, 08:33:10 PM
I've been noticing a lot of silt with my Kone. Way more than I get with the FP. I haven't had time to mess around with the grind that much, so I'm hopping that's all I need to do.


OK, I'm glad I haven't ponied up yet. That settles it right there.

God love these guys for their quest for the perfect brew:

[url]http://www.tropicalsaloon.com/?p=107[/url] ([url]http://www.tropicalsaloon.com/?p=107[/url])


LOL

That's just awesome.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Stubbie on November 18, 2010, 07:53:29 AM
Put my Kone inside a Clever dripper yesterday and had a hell of a time getting it back out.  Almost became a permanent filter for a dripper that isn't mine.  :o

Cut my finger on the top edge too...this thing is seriously sharp.  My worker hands must be a little more delicate than Peters ;)

-Stubbie
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 18, 2010, 08:16:50 AM
...

Cut my finger on the top edge too...this thing is seriously sharp.  My worker hands must be a little more delicate than Peters ;)

-Stubbie

Don't let him kid you.  He has a special dish soap so his hands don't chap. He bluffs his way through a macho routine here.  In person? Manicures with polished/buffed nails or whatever they call it.  Very...ah....metrosexual guy.



Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 18, 2010, 09:02:51 AM
...

Cut my finger on the top edge too...this thing is seriously sharp.  My worker hands must be a little more delicate than Peters ;)

-Stubbie

Don't let him kid you.  He has a special dish soap so his hands don't chap. He bluffs his way through a macho routine here.  In person? Manicures with polished/buffed nails or whatever they call it.  Very...ah....metrosexual guy.





Flattery will get you nowhere, Big Boy.   :thebirdman:
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 18, 2010, 12:39:26 PM
Put my Kone inside a Clever dripper yesterday and had a hell of a time getting it back out.  Almost became a permanent filter for a dripper that isn't mine.  :o

-Stubbie

I had the same problem. It took me 10 minutes to remove it the other day. Just FYI for all you CCD/Kone users. Just lightly place the Kone in your CCD.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 19, 2010, 02:57:09 PM
A review from Hermitudionous.com.  He pours in a very, very tight concentric circle (see article) for a cleaner cup...

"...I mentioned in my preview that I thought the Kone’s brews were reminiscent of a Cafe Solo’s brews; while I stand by that,  I would also add that I think it’s possible to get both cleaner cups and sludgier cups, depending on the coffee, your grinder, your grind setting, and your pouring technique...

I have a few other observations:

~ I tinkered with brew sizes between 400 milliliters to 700 milliliters.  I also tinkered with grind size a bit, but as I said before, grind size generally needs to be finer than for a regular Chemex filter...
~ I wonder how much more of the extraction is dependent upon column-pressure rather than agitation.  If the pour is so center-heavy, how much of that is taking place on the edges?  Furthermore, what role do the holes and their pattern have on the agitation that takes place?  I’m intrigued by this and would like to experiment and learn more.
~ It seems as though surface tension plays a big, big role in keeping the fines out of the resulting brew.  With the Swissgold filters and Bodum gold filters, the spaces are long and just as wide, if not wider, than the bars that keep the coffee in.  Water and grounds flow through very quickly and easily, no matter how one pours.  Not so with the Kone, however...


Worth a read - photos on silt dependent upon pour.  Intriguing:

http://hermitudinous.com/2010/11/19/review-kone/ (http://hermitudinous.com/2010/11/19/review-kone/)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on November 19, 2010, 08:34:09 PM
The grind itself performs a filtering function against fines (witness espresso). Disturbing it lets the fines through.

Basically, when fines can pass through any medium, you want a bank of grind that's stable against that surface.

With paper and agitation the fines will still gravitate to the surface and then stall the flow.

Agitation is fine so long as wet time isn't prolonged beyond control via stall. And obviously the grinder's going to make a difference with that.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ecc on November 20, 2010, 08:51:40 AM
Hmmm, I am getting almost no silt.  I wonder if it is the grind, the non-sniper pinot kettle (wide soft pour) or maybe brew size. (500ml - 1L)  I surely don't pour outside of the middle much, the pinot is not a precision instrument.  I am also about 1/2 way between drip and french press on the macro slider of the vario, getting a nice 2.5 minute pour on 44g for almost 500ml.  Much much cleaner cup than a french press.

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 20, 2010, 09:00:15 AM
I am sipping a Guat - Hario/Melitta white arrangement now.  I did the first pot on a Hario/KONE, with an extremely tight pour towards the center.  Want to compare the two cups for myself -- evaluation and silt.

With the KONE, I think there is some correlation between grinders and silt produced. I haven't tampered with the grind yet -- pourover.  Trying to fool with one variable at a time.  Focusing on pour: The pour impacts it.  Still varying technique to observe the differences.  Are there coffees that don't lend themselves to the KONE?  I remember the first time I found a coffee that didn't shine in a vacpot.  

Head-to-head still to come with Jeff, Ryan, and Peter.  Dec 4th'ish.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 20, 2010, 09:02:25 AM
I'm finding the Kone to highly dependent on the grinder.  My normal grinder for pourover (and press pot) is a KitchenAid Proline.  Yesterday I tried my Compak K10, and you would think it was a different coffee; sweeter, better-defined flavors, less sludge, vs. slightly flatter and edgier flavors from the KA.  The coffee I used was a very good Guat sample from Vournas, already about 12 days old, so it wasn't a matter of the bean coming into its own due to more rest.  I have enough to go back and forth a couple more days, so I'll test it out again.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on November 20, 2010, 02:04:32 PM
KONE as grinder vetter!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 20, 2010, 06:55:32 PM
KONE as grinder vetter!
Do you mean the machine or the person operating it?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on November 20, 2010, 07:21:19 PM
KONE as grinder vetter!
Do you mean the machine or the person operating it?

He mean's my cousin owns the grinder.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 20, 2010, 07:25:34 PM
KONE as grinder vetter!
Do you mean the machine or the person operating it?

He mean's my cousin owns the grinder.

B|Java

Ya gotta give the non-Krauts a clue B|Translator.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on December 01, 2010, 04:04:02 AM
http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/ristretto-the-kone/ (http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/ristretto-the-kone/)

KONE makes the NYTimes blog after editor visits a shop in NYC that is using one.  Zooommm...there go sales.  Blog notes 900 sold to date.  I think his first run was 1,000.  Bet he cranks out a larger run now that it seems to be gaining traction.  He calls it an "aggressive cup" -- really tells me more about the pour than the KONE.  A local roaster here in Lake Cheddar that has pourovers available sent a barista to Oregon to train/learn on the KONE at Coava.  

RE:  Silt question.  Peter and I yacked offline.  I find that you have to be on your toes.  The KONE will move as much water as you put at it.  A fast pour will put some silt in the cup.  A slower, more controlled pour results in a cleaner cup with little silt.  Quite honestly, I am still working on my pour.  The KONE cup is much more dependent upon pour than paper.  I am ironing out pour issues before I begin tweaking grind.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: thejavaman on December 02, 2010, 05:27:12 AM
Ristretto | The Kone
 (http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/ristretto-the-kone/)

What's the verdict from those who bought one of these?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on December 02, 2010, 12:46:43 PM
http://coava.myshopify.com/blogs/kone/2365262-kone-video (http://coava.myshopify.com/blogs/kone/2365262-kone-video)

KONE's video from Coava.  They are using a finer grind than I am and are pouring dead center.  Will try their technique/grind this weekend.  Sediment (amount) shown at about 1:30 of the video.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: FinerGrind on December 02, 2010, 03:32:45 PM
Ristretto | The Kone
 ([url]http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/ristretto-the-kone/[/url])

What's the verdict from those who bought one of these?


So far, I really like mine.  I use it in the Technivorm MM every day and it's a nice clean cup. I'm still working on my Chemex technique but videos like this help:
http://bit.ly/fluwSU (http://bit.ly/fluwSU)

Woody
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ecc on December 03, 2010, 09:08:22 PM
Thumbs up for me, using it pretty regularly.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: FinerGrind on January 01, 2011, 01:13:19 PM
Those crazy kids at Coava are at it again:
http://twitpic.com/3m48fu (http://twitpic.com/3m48fu)

Gleaned from twitter:
@coavacoffee Introducing the kone funnel! Full immersion glass coffee brewer!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Stubbie on January 03, 2011, 06:38:34 AM
Now they've really gone and made an expensive CCD

Looks cool though...

-Stubbie
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on January 05, 2011, 08:31:25 AM
Now the next step.... or is this just another tunnel in this rabbi hole.. full immersion funnel.

(http://www.wweek.com/photos/3709/large/14952.jpg) (http://www.wweek.com/editorial/3709/14952/)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: EricBNC on January 05, 2011, 01:05:29 PM
Now the next step.... or is this just another tunnel in this rabbi hole.. full immersion funnel.

Q: what is a rabbi hole?
A: the sum of two rabbi halves

If I am guessing correctly we all want the coffee without the particles but don't want paper filters.  Consider our friend gravity (we would fall up without it!) and ways to harness it's force - I give you the coffee centrifuge.  While spinning in the centrifuge the heavier sediment and grounds separates out leaving the black gold ready to be poured off.

Early testing with animals is proving promising...

(http://www.cold-war-sputnik-soviet-space-dog-laika.com/images/centrifuge_for_dogs.JPG)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on January 05, 2011, 01:12:50 PM

Q: what is a rabbi hole?
A: the sum of two rabbi halves


oh, great another spelling policeman..... ;D

I think this might be a rabbi hole
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7jn-O7_6Lls/S9IXXcRSMeI/AAAAAAAAAMY/5Njm5cuTYms/s1600/GardenTomb.jpg)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on January 05, 2011, 02:02:20 PM
That's where He came out of on the 3rd day.  I was there, and snooped around inside just to make sure they weren't hiding Him somewhere.   :angel:
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on February 11, 2011, 06:30:13 AM
I have been working with the KONE all week.  I am trying to find the most consistent cup based on pouring techniques.  I will describe what is working best for me.  Here, I am working with 64 grams of coffee, ending with 32 oz of coffee.  Pourover/drip grind.

Pre-heat all equipment.  
Put coffee into the KONE
Use two fingers to make a deep indentation, about 2" deep
Bloom the coffee with about 2-3 ounces of water - all crust is moistened
Wait 20-30 seconds
Recommence with a 196* water
Stay tight
Stay central
Continuous pour
Keep coffee cresting
Total bloom/pour time:  2:30-2:40
Grounds end level, without the built-up side wash

I go out to 2/3rds of the diameter at most.  I am finishing with the most consistent cups I have had with the KONE.  Bit high on the grams but the cup is right there.  I end up with some silt at the end but about 1/2 of the amount I experience with the Swiss Gold. I am going to work with this pour for about 10 days and see if I can continue to nail the cup.  If I find success, I will see if MPrince will put the KONE up for review at CG.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on February 24, 2011, 12:41:12 PM
Chris, I like the KONE for 1 quart/liter to about 60-65 grams.  I don't think I will be pushing it beyond that volume of water.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on February 25, 2011, 11:07:15 AM
Coava was featured in an article on The Kitchn.

Reinventing Coffee: A Visit With Coava & Their Kone Filter (http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/cooking-discussion/coava-coffee-brewing-equipment-devin-helps-us-prepare-the-perfect-cup-138866)

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/atimg/2212964/2011_2_4coava-03_rect540.jpg)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on March 02, 2011, 11:35:27 AM
So, the Wife informed me that Dr. Oz recommends using paper filters as metal filters can elevate your cholesterol by 8%.  Not really news to me, but sure to put a crimp in my Kone, at least for a while.

This morning, I made a paper filter Chemex that was actually quite good with the Costa Rica SHB EP Romelia.

For some coffees paper filters are tolerable, for me.

But Chris, your wife needs to be brought to the realization that her trust should be in her coffee-geek husband who knows way more about coffee than Dr. Oz, who only knows what he reads.  You are the resident expert.  Besides, the benefits of coffee with all its antioxidants far outweighs the negligible risk of cholesterol increase.   ;)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on March 02, 2011, 02:22:44 PM
Is it possible that the study was done on espresso drinks that contain whole milk vs drip coffee with no milk?  or large amounts of coffee?
 
Quote

While unfiltered coffee may contain substances that raise cholesterol levels, many popular coffee drinks sold at coffee houses seem more like desserts than beverages to Frank. The "bolts" of cream and sugary calories raise questions of their own about coffee's effect on cholesterol, she says.

When making decisions about coffee, Frank encourages people not to look for a yes or no answer. It's not a simple question of "do drink coffee" or "don't drink coffee," she says.

Instead, Frank encourages people to "filter through" their own lives and their own cardiovascular risk factors to make a decision about how much and what type of coffee to drink.  ([url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6242467/ns/health-heart_health/[/url])


Quote
To date, coffee consumption is not directly associated with heart disease. However, two diterpenes found in high amounts in unfiltered coffee, cafestol and kahweol, have been found to actually raise cholesterol levels. These studies examined different types of unfiltered coffee, as well as coffee oil. Most studies have indicated that individuals consuming roughly 60 milligrams of cafestol (equivalent to ten cups of unfiltered, French press coffee or two grams of coffee oil) ([url]http://cholesterol.about.com/od/cholesterolloweringfoods/a/coffee.htm[/url])
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on May 06, 2011, 06:33:27 PM
I am going back after the KONE this weekend on an excellent Colombian that Alterra has in stock.  This gent claims it is now Able Roaster (the website doesn't reflect that name) and these are there directions.  I want to try the fine grind they are recommending, with a totally central pour.  Always worth trying something new.

Couldn't get the video linked back:

http://www.tested.com/quick-look-at-the-able-brewing-kone-metal-coffee-filter/47-365/ (http://www.tested.com/quick-look-at-the-able-brewing-kone-metal-coffee-filter/47-365/)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on June 16, 2011, 01:32:37 PM
I have a 2nd gen on the way.  Stay tuned for a comparison, as I have a K-One also
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Stubbie on June 17, 2011, 07:39:44 AM
I'd like to trade in my ONE for a DEAUX - just for the rolled lip ring.  Mine has cut me a couple of times...

-Stubbie
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on June 17, 2011, 08:15:00 AM
You guys in your coffee trucks with your soft hands...

 ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on June 17, 2011, 08:40:31 AM
I'd like to trade in my ONE for a DEAUX - just for the rolled lip ring.  Mine has cut me a couple of times...

-Stubbie
They are just adding a silicon ring, which you can order for your ONE.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Stubbie on June 17, 2011, 08:45:36 AM
You guys in your coffee trucks with your soft hands...

 ;D

Well, my last name is awfully close to that famous lotion maker...got a rep to uphold ya know?

-Stubbie Jurgens
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on June 20, 2011, 05:57:05 AM
I'd like to trade in my ONE for a DEAUX - just for the rolled lip ring.  Mine has cut me a couple of times...

-Stubbie

They are just adding a silicon ring, which you can order for your ONE.


Not really, lots more:  http://coava.myshopify.com/blogs/kone (http://coava.myshopify.com/blogs/kone)
1.  New hole pattern.   Gen 1 was only tested on a Mazzer Robur.  Whoops.  Gen 2 tested on a ton of grinders, including home grinders.
2.  Different stainless steel.  Thinner, yet less apt to dent.  My Gen 1 is fine.  My daughter's, who is apt to whack it, reflects her proclivity to banging.
3.  FDA grade silicone ring, as you mentioned.  Fits Gen 1.

Cost.   Lots of feedback about it being too pricey.  Even more feedback such as, "Alleluia, it's made in the USA, not China."  Alleluia wins. Good on Coava. Steel from Ohio, etched and welded in Connecticut, silicone from Seattle.  

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on June 20, 2011, 06:41:49 AM
What B|Java said..... I was only responding to Stubbie's desire to have one with the new silicon lip....
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: thejavaman on June 22, 2011, 10:03:52 AM
ABLE ONE CUP (http://marrowmag.com/coffee/the-able-one-cup-meta-coffee-filter/)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Marshall_S on August 02, 2011, 06:25:21 PM
I have  both the Coava KONE 1 and 2  and I, too, find that the second generation is an improvement over the first one.

The main improvement is less fines/silt in the cup with no sacrifice in flavor. 

I recently found my sweet spot by following these suggestions "to a t":
http://prima-coffee.com/blog/kone-2-review (http://prima-coffee.com/blog/kone-2-review)

In brief, Lee suggests 33 grams of a medium grind (a setting of 20 on a Baratza Preciso) and 515 grams of water.

He suggests a 30 gram preinfusion of 45 seconds, pouring in circles for the first 1/3 of the volume followed by a slow steady pour down the center for the remaining 2/3 of water with a total brew time of 3 1/2 minutes.

I was a bit frustrated with mine until I tried these suggestions and I find these work really well for me.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: staylor on August 03, 2011, 12:07:47 AM
Interesting.

I bought my Kone 2 a couple of days ago at Coava where I spent at least an hour with Sam who was pouring cup after cup at the Kone bar. In-house they are pouring 400gms of water through 24-25gms of coffee in approx 2.5 - 3mins. This is getting served in what looked to be 12oz mugs and any fines that exist are being retained in the Chemex.

As far as grind setting goes I requested a small sample in a paper bag to compare against my Vario grind at home. I'm finding the Kone setting operates between the pourover and espresso settings on my Vario, of course it's all just a matter of clearance rates so I'm adjusting grind based on that.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on August 03, 2011, 02:56:48 AM
Interesting.

...

As far as grind setting goes I requested a small sample in a paper bag to compare against my Vario grind at home. I'm finding the Kone setting operates between the pourover and espresso settings on my Vario, of course it's all just a matter of clearance rates so I'm adjusting grind based on that.

My cones are back in the crib -- I will do some side-by-sides this weekend.  Coava is going way finer than I do (based on your description).  I use a drip grind, using 22g for a 12oz cup, ending up with about 10 - 11 oz of java.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Marshall_S on August 03, 2011, 03:57:47 AM
Interesting.

I bought my Kone 2 a couple of days ago at Coava where I spent at least an hour with Sam who was pouring cup after cup at the Kone bar. In-house they are pouring 400gms of water through 24-25gms of coffee in approx 2.5 - 3mins. This is getting served in what looked to be 12oz mugs and any fines that exist are being retained in the Chemex.

As far as grind setting goes I requested a small sample in a paper bag to compare against my Vario grind at home. I'm finding the Kone setting operates between the pourover and espresso settings on my Vario, of course it's all just a matter of clearance rates so I'm adjusting grind based on that.

We're on the same track - a setting  of "20" on the Preciso is about mid-way between a typical pourover and an espresso grind and the coffee/water/timing  proportions are essentially the same.  My only question is whether brewing a larger amount  of coffee makes a difference  - my guess is that it doesn't as long as you brew at least 400 gms of water..
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on September 07, 2011, 03:51:09 AM
I have been using KONE 2 all week.  60 grams coffee with a short liter pour.  I have been extremely pleased with it. 

I am getting a nice lift on the bed/bloom character of the grinds in it.  I haven't clock-monitored but 3 minutes sounds about right, to include that initial 20 second bloom.  The cup character is just a bit "heartier" than the same cup coming off a Melitta white, easily explained with the oils and proteins that the KONE would deliver and the paper would hold back.  I haven't measured the fines in comparison to KONE 1 as the Czarina has been getting the last cup.

Technique used:
Great cup.  This a.m.'s is an El Salv La Batalla.  Balanced, fully integrated, complete.  Excellent prep for this coffee, as was the vacpot and espresso.

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on September 08, 2011, 03:55:07 AM
I have been using KONE 2 all week.  60 grams coffee with a short liter pour.  I have been extremely pleased with it. 

I am getting a nice lift on the bed/bloom character of the grinds in it.  I haven't clock-monitored but 3 minutes sounds about right, to include that initial 20 second bloom...


Put the clock on it this morning.  3.30 min w/o bloom; 4.00 min with bloom.  Used a 10% finer grind.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: RobertL on December 08, 2011, 06:26:04 PM
I plan on buying a Kone soon and I'm curious how well it works with the Hario V60 02? Is there an advantage to using the Kone with a Chemex?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ecc on December 08, 2011, 06:59:59 PM
I plan on buying a Kone soon and I'm curious how well it works with the Hario V60 02? Is there an advantage to using the Kone with a Chemex?

I use a Kone with a v60 02 for 10oz directly into a cup, and use a Chemex for larger batches.   

Any stable pot for the v60 would work just as well as the Chemex. The Chemex advantage is mostly about cool glass handles, or antique thick handblown models.  The Kone sticks up a little on the v60 02 (no big deal) and can get a little spray crazy early in the pour if you get the filter tilted much inside the v60.  The Chemex is slightly harder to clean and detests granite countertops, tile floors, small dishwashers. (as do we all)

I hope you enjoy the Kone!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on December 08, 2011, 07:05:45 PM
I plan on buying a Kone soon and I'm curious how well it works with the Hario V60 02? Is there an advantage to using the Kone with a Chemex?

It works fine with the Hario V60/02.  I also use it with a pre-heated liter thermos.  Good hook-up.  I have never gone back to the Chemex.  Too much heat loss.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on April 24, 2012, 06:19:43 AM
OK, let's regroup.  We spent about an hour at Coava while in Portland.

Pour - I think we have that one down, tight circular pour, 2.5 - 3.0 minute grind.
Grind - Coava goes much tighter than I have ever used with it.  For comparison, my pourover is a 5.5; vacpot, 5.0; espresso is a 2.2.  Coava's grind, comparatively would be a 3.0, light sand consistency. 

I will try it this weekend.  Typically, I use a 4.75.  I will do both grinds and compare the tastes and report back.

B|Java
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: blzrfn on April 24, 2012, 08:07:07 AM
OK, let's regroup.  We spent about an hour at Coava while in Portland.

Pour - I think we have that one down, tight circular pour, 2.5 - 3.0 minute grind.
Grind - Coava goes much tighter than I have ever used with it.  For comparison, my pourover is a 5.5; vacpot, 5.0; espresso is a 2.2.  Coava's grind, comparatively would be a 3.0, light sand consistency. 

I will try it this weekend.  Typically, I use a 4.75.  I will do both grinds and compare the tastes and report back.

B|Java

I can't wait to hear your results.  I'm thinking a Kone will be the next toy to buy.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: J.Jirehs Roaster on April 24, 2012, 08:42:08 AM
after playing with the Cafe Solo and concluding that good coffee will have a little silt in the bottom of the mug and that is just the way it is I think I will go on a coffee bender and try the kone at a full range of grinds..

Quote from: Warren Zevon
I'm drinking heartbreak motor oil and Bombay gin
I'll sleep when I'm dead
Straight from the bottle, twisted again
I'll sleep when I'm dead [\quote]
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on April 26, 2012, 03:57:05 PM
Pro tip:  Don't hit your Chemex with the tip of your Kone when removing it.

...


Two thoughts.
^  Time you downsized anyway and
^  Able is coming out with a blunted tip and edged rim -- look for it next month, GEN 3.

But then, you aren't hard core and I am sure you will pass.

http://sprudge.com/able-brewing-pdx-to-launch-kone-3.html (http://sprudge.com/able-brewing-pdx-to-launch-kone-3.html)

(http://coffeegeek.com/images/57358/06remix-coffee-tmagSF.jpg)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on April 28, 2012, 02:36:50 AM
I'm going to give this four dollar thrift store solution a try, it even comes with a bakelite lid.

...

Maybe the pic is deceiving but it doesn't appear that you have the KONE covered in glass.  The upper half extracted coffee runs to where?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on June 04, 2012, 04:13:07 PM
The history of the KONE.  http://player.vimeo.com/video/43424114 (http://player.vimeo.com/video/43424114)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: EricBNC on June 06, 2012, 08:07:11 PM
I decided to back this one on kickstarter - looks like I can use it with the Eva Solo, Chemex, and Hario so $45 is not too much for the versatility.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: jbviau on June 07, 2012, 08:02:32 AM
How are you going to fit that thing in the Eva?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rgrosz78 on June 07, 2012, 11:33:11 AM
I've been able to pour through a Swiss Gold cone filter pretty slowly, even slow enough to have some still going down when I'm done pouring. It has to be very slow.
I have used the Swiss Gold cone filter in my Technivorm MoccaMaster for years. It brings out the bass notes in the coffee. Great for taming something that is TOO bright for my taste.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: EricBNC on June 07, 2012, 01:14:06 PM
How are you going to fit that thing in the Eva?

Shouldn't the bottom of it fit into the neck? I was thinking I could imitate a Chemex/Kone with it but maybe not - I have never seen the Kone up close.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on July 08, 2012, 06:41:10 PM
Call it Chris's Chemex Curse.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ecc on July 08, 2012, 07:49:03 PM
                                                           .             .
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on July 08, 2012, 08:03:51 PM
Quote
Unfortunately, the Gen 2 Kone got stuck under the rim so I ended up breaking another Chemex (not the newest one).

How does the Kone getting stuck under the rim end up breaking the Chemex?  Just curious...

Also, have you considered making the ice cubes by freezing coffee?  Less dilution.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: J.Jirehs Roaster on July 09, 2012, 08:59:42 AM
just looking at the pictures I thought the story was that the chemex didn't like the ice and hot coffee at the same time..

is that a 6 cup chemex?? my Kone sets much lower in the funnel of the chemex..

I have yet to find a chemex in a thrift store  :(
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: J.Jirehs Roaster on July 09, 2012, 09:27:58 AM
then I don't know what I have.. I thought it was an 8 cup??  but I guess the top cone should be pretty much the same on all sizes
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on July 09, 2012, 11:17:35 AM
How is the Chemex breaking? I've had my Kone V1.0 stuck before and I had to slightly bend the edge of the Kone to release it. I'm not going to use the Kone if there is a chance of breaking the Chemex.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: simmich on July 09, 2012, 01:34:29 PM

I may just have to find another brew vessel for the Kones... it'll fit in the Clever.

Kone fits perfectly in the Clever...placed on an old Cory bottom makes an ok setup for a slow pour  (or a 3-4 minute full imersion). :)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ScareYourPassenger on July 09, 2012, 03:53:29 PM
The Gen 2 Kone is much stiffer than the Gen 1 and when I was trying to bend it to get it out from under the rim, I just applied too much pressure to the Chemex and cracked it.

Pretty sure that the plastic rim added to the Gen 3 will take care of this issue... should have gotten in on the Kickstarter for that, but I figured I was covered with the Gen 1 and Gen 2.

I may just have to find another brew vessel for the Kones... it'll fit in the Clever.

Whatever about buying the able brewer?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on August 12, 2012, 07:02:56 PM
Able Brewing, KONE, gen 3.

We used this all weekend, for cupping on Friday and for the Gesha fest.

Pros:
1.  Silicone lip over the top edge.  Eliminates the sharp edge.  +
2.  Rounded tip is much better than the pointed end.  +
3.  Holes HAVE to be different.  Keith has virtually eliminated sludge.  No more residual fines than a drip or pourover. +
4.  Fits Chemex, Hario small and large, as well as the Cilio 6.  +

Cons:
None.

Others and I really worked over the Chemex and KONE 3 set-up.  Excellent cup.  Keith can quit designing -- I believe he has nailed it. 

Rich mouthfeel without the "sloppiness" (diminished structure) that I experience in a press pot.   Good oils, solid cup. I will be moving away from the standard daily vacpot arrangement and pumping out some KONE 3/Chemex coffee for the next 4-6 weeks.  Very, very pleased with it.

http://ablebrewing.com/collections/products/#kone-coffee-filter (http://ablebrewing.com/collections/products/#kone-coffee-filter)




(http://c406421.r21.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Kone_V3.jpg)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on August 12, 2012, 08:30:08 PM
On that recommendation, I'm spending more than I'd prefer just now . . .
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on August 12, 2012, 08:38:36 PM
On that recommendation, I'm spending more than I'd prefer just now . . .

You won't regret it.  Based on what we saw on Friday, big difference from the same coffee run through B|Toymaster's vacpot and the Kone, I'm ordering one too.  I'll most likely pair the Kone w/ the Chemx Able is offering, and a Bonavita electric kettle.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: staylor on August 12, 2012, 11:51:34 PM
I've been digging my Kone 2/Chemex for over a year now, not sure how radically different the Kone 3 would be (besides the silcone lip), enough to warrant getting a 3? I use the 2 at home about 10 times per week.

I'm having a lot of fun doing 75gm pourovers onto ice cubes in the Chemex for the farmers market. Been selling 20-25 iced coffees every Thurs, which isn't a lot but amuses me while I'm selling bags of coffee. Probably the best part of the iced coffee thing is people standing around watching me do the extractions (approx 4 servings per extraction) of stuff like the Kochoha or Gedeo Worka, etc and then watching them struggle to process what's going on with their tastebuds as they give off obvious signs of enjoying it.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on August 13, 2012, 04:14:30 AM
I've been digging my Kone 2/Chemex for over a year now, not sure how radically different the Kone 3 would be (besides the silcone lip), enough to warrant getting a 3? I use the 2 at home about 10 times per week...


Given the durability of the item, I would buy it and peddle Gen 2 at half price.  Radical difference?  Not sure.  Gen 3 offers a cleaner cup without a diminished mouthfeel.  No sludge/minor dust.  Though I don't think I have varied my pour technique, I find that I end with a flatter bed of coffee, with less of it on the wall of the filter.  Suggests a better extraction but I am only guessing.

The entry point ($60) is a value given the durability of the product.  My concern is that the price point, while a value in my opinion, might be high enough to cause pause and hold others hostage from pulling the "add to my cart" trigger.

I can only tell you that I am delighted sufficiently that I dropped the dime.  I can re-employ Gen 2 vs Gen 3 -- The Throwdown -- at the next cupping for comparison.  Tickets on sale today.


(http://www.24wrestling.com/24/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/vincemcmahon.jpg)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on August 13, 2012, 06:59:09 AM
I'm sad that mine has not shipped yet :(
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on August 13, 2012, 08:11:41 AM
I'm having a lot of fun doing 75gm pourovers onto ice cubes in the Chemex for the farmers market. Been selling 20-25 iced coffees every Thurs,

My iced volume's been way up with the heat wave. This past Sat. the temps were nice (at last), but people still gravitated toward the iced -- as if the nice day might, at any moment, bare the previous week's thermal teeth.

I continue to use the Aero for iceds, brewing them quite concentrated.

What serving size is that 75g?!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Joe on August 13, 2012, 09:07:00 AM
I've been digging my Kone 2/Chemex for over a year now, not sure how radically different the Kone 3 would be (besides the silcone lip), enough to warrant getting a 3? I use the 2 at home about 10 times per week...


Given the durability of the item, I would buy it and peddle Gen 2 at half price.  Radical difference?  Not sure.  Gen 3 offers a cleaner cup without a diminished mouthfeel.  No sludge/minor dust.  Though I don't think I have varied my pour technique, I find that I end with a flatter bed of coffee, with less of it on the wall of the filter.  Suggests a better extraction but I am only guessing.

The entry point ($60) is a value given the durability of the product.  My concern is that the price point, while a value in my opinion, might be high enough to cause pause and hold others hostage from pulling the "add to my cart" trigger.

I can only tell you that I am delighted sufficiently that I dropped the dime.  I can re-employ Gen 2 vs Gen 3 -- The Throwdown -- at the next cupping for comparison.  Tickets on sale today.


([url]http://www.24wrestling.com/24/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/vincemcmahon.jpg[/url])


$60 for a swiss gold knock off? I don't get it....

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on August 13, 2012, 09:30:24 AM
$60 for a swiss gold knock off? I don't get it....

But if the 'swiss gold knock off' (which is like saying a Corvette is a Model T knock off) made a notable difference in the cup, would you get it then?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: staylor on August 13, 2012, 09:45:16 AM
I'm having a lot of fun doing 75gm pourovers onto ice cubes in the Chemex for the farmers market. Been selling 20-25 iced coffees every Thurs,

My iced volume's been way up with the heat wave. This past Sat. the temps were nice (at last), but people still gravitated toward the iced -- as if the nice day might, at any moment, bare the previous week's thermal teeth.

I continue to use the Aero for iceds, brewing them quite concentrated.

What serving size is that 75g?!

I bought the Chemex and Kone 2 when I was at Coava last year, I'm away from my Chemex at the moment (on vacation for a few days, so it's Melitta pourovers) but I think it's the 6 cup glass handle version. I fill the Chemex with ice, approx 1/3rd to 1/2 full, and then extract using hot water. The extraction volume is 'fill the Chemex right to the tip of the Kone', I played with extractions and I found this to be best for iced coffee and my palate.

I then throw some ice in a sturdy 16-18oz beer cup (depending on what's available at my local supermarket) and pour the chilled coffee over top, then add some sweetened condensed milk on top of the ice. If you can find the transparent beer cups the visual appeal will sell those bad boys all day long. I charge $4.00 per drink.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: staylor on August 13, 2012, 11:22:19 AM
I would post up my exact ratios, along with the associated cost breakdown for the farmers market COG/profit margin but my notes are in my farmers market kit back in Rossland. Currently I'm sitting next to a swimming pool in Penticton (for the next four days), getting some work done and watching my boys splash around as I enjoy Melitta pourovers.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: smico on August 13, 2012, 11:46:48 AM
On that recommendation, I'm spending more than I'd prefer just now . . .

You won't regret it.  Based on what we saw on Friday, big difference from the same coffee run through B|Toymaster's vacpot and the Kone, I'm ordering one too.  I'll most likely pair the Kone w/ the Chemx Able is offering, and a Bonavita electric kettle.
I am also bought on Kone 3.  Dave tought me how to make pourover.
I will also buy filter for Aeropress.
Too bad we forgot about refractometer that ecc brought.  We should have measured two preparations and get some numbers to make it sound more scientific.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on August 17, 2012, 06:14:42 AM
I received my Kone v.3.0 earlier this week and I have been using it with the Clever. I am extremely happy with this version. Probably the cleanest cup I've ever had from a metal/mesh filter, while still giving and increased body to the cup. The Fruta de Oro I'm drinking this morning has greatly enhanced chocolates and caramels. Yum.

I dub thee King of Kones!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Richdel on August 17, 2012, 07:43:41 AM
I received my Kone v.3.0 earlier this week and I have been using it with the Clever. I am extremely happy with this version. Probably the cleanest cup I've ever had from a metal/mesh filter, while still giving and increased body to the cup. The Fruta de Oro I'm drinking this morning has greatly enhanced chocolates and caramels. Yum.

I dub thee King of Kones!

I was unaware that the CCD and the Kone v3.0 could work together.
My Aeropress is dying the slow death, too many cracks on the inside of the outer
tube, so there is no back pressure when plunging.  I need another "quick" and good
"one-cupper".  Was thinking about the AP + fine disk,  but the CCD plus Kone 3 would be a worthy alternative.  Is anyone else using the Kone with the CCD?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: smico on August 17, 2012, 08:30:05 AM
I received my Kone v.3.0 earlier this week and I have been using it with the Clever. I am extremely happy with this version. Probably the cleanest cup I've ever had from a metal/mesh filter, while still giving and increased body to the cup. The Fruta de Oro I'm drinking this morning has greatly enhanced chocolates and caramels. Yum.

I dub thee King of Kones!
Jason, Where did you buy it from?  Thanks
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on August 17, 2012, 08:32:56 AM
I received my Kone v.3.0 earlier this week and I have been using it with the Clever. I am extremely happy with this version. Probably the cleanest cup I've ever had from a metal/mesh filter, while still giving and increased body to the cup. The Fruta de Oro I'm drinking this morning has greatly enhanced chocolates and caramels. Yum.

I dub thee King of Kones!

I was unaware that the CCD and the Kone v3.0 could work together.
My Aeropress is dying the slow death, too many cracks on the inside of the outer
tube, so there is no back pressure when plunging.  I need another "quick" and good
"one-cupper".  Was thinking about the AP + fine disk,  but the CCD plus Kone 3 would be a worthy alternative.  Is anyone else using the Kone with the CCD?

It doesn't fit exactly right; the new plastic lip sticks up above the top of the Clever just a fraction of an inch, but the CCD lid fits over the Kone just fine. This is a good thing though. The older version of the Kone had a tendency to get stuck inside the CCD. No chance of this happening with the new version.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on August 17, 2012, 08:34:48 AM
I received my Kone v.3.0 earlier this week and I have been using it with the Clever. I am extremely happy with this version. Probably the cleanest cup I've ever had from a metal/mesh filter, while still giving and increased body to the cup. The Fruta de Oro I'm drinking this morning has greatly enhanced chocolates and caramels. Yum.

I dub thee King of Kones!
Jason, Where did you buy it from?  Thanks

I got it through their Kickstarter campaign. I think it's closed now, but they will probably be hitting retailers very soon.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on August 17, 2012, 08:41:04 AM
...
I got it through their Kickstarter campaign. I think it's closed now, but they will probably be hitting retailers very soon.


I don't think Keith has it available thru retailers -- only his site:

http://ablebrewing.com/collections/products/#kone-coffee-filter (http://ablebrewing.com/collections/products/#kone-coffee-filter)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: jbviau on August 17, 2012, 10:44:00 AM
Prima at least (maybe others?) will have it starting next month: http://prima-coffee.com/brewer/able-kone-stainless-steel-filter (http://prima-coffee.com/brewer/able-kone-stainless-steel-filter)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: smico on August 17, 2012, 11:42:57 AM
On Able they charge $30 for shipping to Canada.
Will wait for September 1st.
Thanks,
Miroslav
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: EricBNC on August 19, 2012, 12:49:34 AM
My Kone arrived yesterday.

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2yxqeiu.jpg)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on August 21, 2012, 05:53:01 PM
Good cup. A pile of fines at the bottom. Bunn commercial grinder.

Might be worth $60 for someone with an expensive grinder. There's no way I'd recommend this to the average consumer, even if they had a passable burr grinder.

5 micron polyester felt. No fines (regardless of technique/grind), same cup quality.    :)

Impossible to clean and too expensive to throw away every time.    :(

edit: Oh -- I assume everyone's using surfactant to clean this thing carefully every time?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on August 21, 2012, 06:42:51 PM

edit: Oh -- I assume everyone's using surfactant to clean this thing carefully every time?

Soap and water for me.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on August 21, 2012, 07:11:57 PM

edit: Oh -- I assume everyone's using surfactant to clean this thing carefully every time?

Soap and water for me.

I'm guessing rasqual was talking about the poly-felt right there.  Soap & water on the Kone for me too.

Mine came yesterday, along w/ the Bonavita elec. kettle.  I picked up the Chemex for when I need more than a cup, but for just one cup it's the ultra-fancy rig pictured below.

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: smico on August 21, 2012, 07:20:49 PM
Great idea Peter.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ecc on August 21, 2012, 07:57:41 PM
I can't quite make out the logo on the mug...
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on August 21, 2012, 08:49:52 PM
I can't quite make out the logo on the mug...

Don't make me modify your post, jokeyman.   ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: staylor on August 21, 2012, 09:01:51 PM
Hey Peter, did you get the variable temp gooseneck kettle that the sales guy was talking about in their SCAA booth?

http://bona-vita.biz/products/kettle5.asp (http://bona-vita.biz/products/kettle5.asp)

I've been waiting for that one to go live, I want one.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on August 21, 2012, 09:48:31 PM
Hey Peter, did you get the variable temp gooseneck kettle that the sales guy was talking about in their SCAA booth?

[url]http://bona-vita.biz/products/kettle5.asp[/url] ([url]http://bona-vita.biz/products/kettle5.asp[/url])

I've been waiting for that one to go live, I want one.


Negatory.  I didn't want to spend the extra money, or wait for it.  My Saeco kettle has a similar feature with preset set points, one at 200F, but I don't use that.  My theory is that there is enough heat loss during the pour and then the brewing, that if I start at 200F it'll be below optimum temp in no time.

If I wasn't looking for an electric kettle to pour with, and was buying a stove-top kettle, it wouldn't be a Bonavita.  The gooseneck bumps the Kone at the beginning of the pour.  It's not a big deal, but some others avoid that.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: staylor on August 21, 2012, 10:02:50 PM
I hear you on those points. My rationale for this kettle is I can set the hold point and it will stay there for an hour. Doreen likes to fill the electric kettle, boil the water and then wander away to do something else, eventually coming back to do a pourover with non-optimal water temps, this kettle can deal with the wandering. ;-)

I also like that I can boil water and hold at a set point for the farmers market, whenever a customer stops by I'll always have correct temp available.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Cammie on August 21, 2012, 10:03:41 PM
Received my Kone 3 today.  Brewed 4 cups of Guatemala Acatenango Gesha in the Technivorm with the Kone.  Coffee was spectacular even though it's only 24 hours post roast. I kept the brew basket in the closed position for 2-3 minutes after the basket filled and then switched to the half open position.
 
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: mp on August 22, 2012, 03:17:51 AM

edit: Oh -- I assume everyone's using surfactant to clean this thing carefully every time?


Soap and water for me.


I'm guessing rasqual was talking about the poly-felt right there.  Soap & water on the Kone for me too.

Mine came yesterday, along w/ the Bonavita elec. kettle.  I picked up the Chemex for when I need more than a cup, but for just one cup it's the ultra-fancy rig pictured below.


Nice setup Peter!

Simple, effective, and inexpensive.

Great German engineering.

(http://www.forumsextreme.com/images2/sHa_clap2.gif)

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on August 22, 2012, 06:12:53 AM
Good cup. A pile of fines at the bottom. Bunn commercial grinder.

Might be worth $60 for someone with an expensive grinder. There's no way I'd recommend this to the average consumer, even if they had a passable burr grinder.

What shape are those burrs in?  With my KONE/MACAP set-up (just 58mm burrs), I get a residual dust about the size of a dime in a Chemex.  Amount isn't worth mentioning.  Superb cup. Guess our experience differs.

I am a ritual-type with the morning routine.  I am using the KONE 3 with the Chemex, then pouring the finished coffee into a preheated Zojirushi 1-liter insulated serving thermos.  High putz, high satisfaction.  Meets the 'need-a-ritual' factor.


Couldn't figure out Peter's "Bonavita bumps the KONE" until I did it with my goose necked Paico this morning.  I am also using the NCho theory of pouring - get the spout right down tight.  With the Paico, I can keep a crest going on the coffee wherein the tip of the spout can touch the crest.  I keep it right above that, for a continuous pour instead of the pulse pour.


He was smart to deal with the sharp point and sharp edge.  I think that kept it out of retail shops -- worker's comp issues/staff safety.  It is a breeze to clean up in comparison to earlier models.  No need to gingerly pamper it during the wash.  Love it.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on August 22, 2012, 07:25:01 PM
The thing certainly does clean up nicely. And the cup is what I'd call "turbid" -- more so than what you get with poly. Poly's turbidity is, I'd say, strictly on account of the oils. This thing's turbidity certainly is on account of the oils (gloriously present), but also on account of particulate matter.

:::sigh:::

I can see that I'm going to have to implement my centrifuge ideas to deal with this kind of thing. Think a scaled down cream separator.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on September 01, 2012, 06:20:39 AM
Like Yakster, I wiped out my Chemex.  I was loading it into a box to go along with the KONE to DandyDon's house for cupping yesterday.  I barely touched the top rim to the cabinet base and a chip came flying out of the Chemex lip.  Done.  Toast.

Grabbed a new 8-cup, glass handled Chemex off Prima Coffee, $38/shipped (I had thrown away the wood/leather collar years ago and gone to a mitt).  Don't have the patience to sort through 12 thrift stores for one.  Won't find a Chemex but will find a ton of other coffee junk that will result in me or the items getting put to the curb.


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nmM9aWNBB2E/TTkfWUkmM6I/AAAAAAAAAEM/jn5CohEfUas/s1600/manInTrashCan.jpg)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on September 01, 2012, 07:14:52 AM
Like Yakster, I wiped out my Chemex.


Queen - Another One Bites The Dust (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNQRfBAzSzo#ws)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ecc on September 01, 2012, 12:15:01 PM
I really like the glass handled Chemex. and think they are somehow tougher than the vintage ones.  Mine has been banged around quite a bit, clinked against faucets and Kone tips galore with no ill effects.  (knock on wood pun goes here)

Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BozemanEric on October 18, 2012, 06:43:08 PM
I noticed that SM is finally offering the new Kone. I have been eyeing them on Able for a while but have always resisted because of shipping. Is everyone still happy with their Kone?  Is it a substantial upgrade to a very well rinsed white filter?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on October 18, 2012, 07:36:00 PM
I noticed that SM is finally offering the new Kone. I have been eyeing them on Able for a while but have always resisted because of shipping. Is everyone still happy with their Kone?  Is it a substantial upgrade to a very well rinsed white filter?

Emphatically yes, on both counts.  But that's coming from someone who never met a paper filter he liked no matter how well it was rinsed.  For years I've chosen brewing methods that let the coffee's oils come through.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on October 18, 2012, 07:43:50 PM
Yes, it's quite an upgrade from my v.1.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: simmich on October 18, 2012, 08:36:01 PM
I noticed that SM is finally offering the new Kone. I have been eyeing them on Able for a while but have always resisted because of shipping. Is everyone still happy with their Kone?  Is it a substantial upgrade to a very well rinsed white filter?

The original Kone shreds all aver well rinsed paper...guessing the newer version is even better.  :)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on October 18, 2012, 08:50:31 PM
Does it come in a size that fits into the Hario V60?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BozemanEric on October 18, 2012, 09:11:21 PM
Does it come in a size that fits into the Hario V60?

Yes, but it does stick up above it a bit. SM has a bunch of pictures. I would primarily use it in my V60 and my 8C Chemex. Although, the 8C Chemex has not been used since the Brazen arrived. 
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on October 19, 2012, 09:08:39 AM
Thanks, Eric, I will look.  I forgot that the Hario V60 I have and was referring to is the small one -- maybe V60-01.   And all I have ever used in it are the Hario unbleached filters I bought when I got it....

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on October 19, 2012, 09:49:35 AM
Thanks, Eric, I will look.  I forgot that the Hario V60 I have and was referring to is the small one -- maybe V60-01.   And all I have ever used in it are the Hario unbleached filters I bought when I got it....

Susan

I believe, with the way the Kone works, it won't matter how much sticks above the cone holder.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on October 19, 2012, 10:00:00 AM
So, that would mean I could throw away an entire drawer full of filter papers for various sizes of Chemexes and Harios?
AND I will like the taste better?
Wow.  That makes expensive sound not so much....

Eric?  Did you pull the trigger on one?

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on October 19, 2012, 10:14:16 AM
So, that would mean I could throw away an entire drawer full of filter papers for various sizes of Chemexes and Harios?
AND I will like the taste better?
Wow.  That makes expensive sound not so much....

Assuming you have a good pouring kettle, and don't have the shakes.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on October 19, 2012, 10:24:30 AM
Assuming you have a good pouring kettle

Hario Buono on board
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on October 19, 2012, 12:22:59 PM
Assuming you have a good pouring kettle

Hario Buono on board

Able Brewing is the place for you then, my friend!

I ordered the 8C Chemex along w/ the Kone; $95 for the pair, just for the times when I want to brew two or more mugs.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on October 19, 2012, 12:38:35 PM
Well .... :'(
I tried, but whatever frugality is still in my genetic make-up declined to push the button on the total of $70.
Maybe another day when I am feeling looser with the purse....

Pourover remains a second-choice mode for me, so I guess I'm stuck with paper filters for a while.... :-[

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BozemanEric on October 19, 2012, 12:55:10 PM
Eric?  Did you pull the trigger on one?

I just hit the place order button. I had an order for SM so at least I saved the $10 in shipping.  I will let you know what I think.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on October 19, 2012, 01:05:15 PM
Well .... :'(
I tried, but whatever frugality is still in my genetic make-up declined to push the button on the total of $70.
Maybe another day when I am feeling looser with the purse....

Pourover remains a second-choice mode for me, so I guess I'm stuck with paper filters for a while.... :-[

Susan


You would never have to buy filters again, so it would save you money in the long run. It also works quite well in a Clever.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on October 19, 2012, 03:30:25 PM
You would never have to buy filters again, so it would save you money in the long run. It also works quite well in a Clever.
This would be pertinent if I didn't already have a life-time supply of paper filters due to a bad habit I have of buying in bulk, consuming in whatever is the opposite of bulk, and changing my mind a lot....

Still...
one of these days...I will probably 'just want it' more than I do today.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on October 19, 2012, 03:33:14 PM
KONE 3 is KING.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BozemanEric on October 25, 2012, 04:59:02 PM
The Kone Arrives today. My first impressions, this thing is a lot lighter than I thought it would be. Any other impressions will have to wait. I left all my pour over devices at my place and I am still housesitting my folks dogs.  I will let you all know what I think as soon as I have a chance to use it.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BozemanEric on October 28, 2012, 09:22:46 PM
This might have already been answered somewhere in these nineteen pages but I got tired of looking. Do I need to adjust my grind when using the Kone in my V60 and Chemex or do I stick with the same grind as I use with paper?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 05, 2012, 08:07:18 PM
Noticed today the the plastic lip on my Kone is broken. I use it with the Clever almost daily and hand wash it after each use. I've not been rough with it.

Anyone else had and issue?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on November 14, 2012, 08:41:23 PM
Reviewed the thread.

Oils and body are more pronounced.


I have to disagree with this. But not by way of contradiction, per se.

The problem with "body" as commonly understood, is that it's more difficult to judge when fines are present in the cup. The fines themselves are so predominant in the mouthfeel that body qua body is easily lost in the judgment.

I'll illustrate by appealing to the reader's intuition: take three coffees that cup with greatly differing evaluations of body. I guarantee that if you took the lightest body of them and brewed it in this device, and compared it with the heaviest bodied of the bunch brewed through paper, the former would be assessed by many as having more body.

But is that true? Why should one not simply judge that it has more fines, which masquerade as body?

Is body a quality of how we brew? If so, then what business have we rating coffees as coffees for body, if that quality is so radically subject to variations in how it's brewed? Worse -- how it's ground, if we're talking about standard cupping and not paper brews.

I'm just really skeptical of referring to this variation as one of body. In some sense ("well what else should we call it, Scott?"), I can understand that nomenclature. But if we're willing to call a fluid's turbidity "body," we've lost the value of univocity that body might have.

Heck, can we just say it's "more turgid?" (edit: Argh, I meant turbid) That has the benefit of being obviously true with such brews, and it doesn't interfere with what this guy, at least, thinks of as a narrower -- and more valuable -- understanding of what we mean by body.

Now, it could be noted that a brew method that is 'cleaner' will allow a clean coffee to present itself as such, as opposed to a less clean brew method that allows more particulates though and the coffee presents itself less 'clean' than it really is.


I think this is another way of pointing in the direction of what I'm trying to say.

Why not ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darcy's_law[/url])?


Hmm. The permeability's variation depending on how the bed is sustained in a stable form or disturbed by the pour, is one of my concerns. The analog of an aquifer is apropos of the 3D character of filtration in such brewing methods.

The KONE cup is much more dependent upon pour than paper.


Frighteningly so, I'd say.

Today I tried a pour in a Clever after screening the fines out of the grind as thoroughly as practical.

Still more turgid (edit: Argh! Turbid!) than a 5 micron polyester Aeropressing, with mouthfeel clearly influenced by the presence of fines. Not a lot of silt in the bottom of the cup.

If I found this "particulate body" somewhat offensive, though, it might be because today I also enjoyed some good paper pours with screened grind, resulting in a noticeably different extraction than I'm accustomed to. I have a pretty dull palate, so when I notice a difference I consider it significant. It was quite good. Weirdly, I'd say it lacked the complexity that over-extracted fines lend to a cup, permitting me to enjoy the proper complexity of a properly consistent extraction.

Heh. Ok, if some wish to refer to suspended fines (turbidity) as "body," then I get to refer to the contribution of over-extracted fines to the cup as enhanced "complexity."    ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 14, 2012, 09:26:04 PM
See now?  If you cupped with us on a regular basis, we'd have you trained in how to distinguish between body and turbidity.   ;)

I say that only with only part of my tongue in my cheek.  I think you can get a feel for particulates and mud, and still get a grasp on body as a separate descriptor.  I further think you can determine mouthfeel as yet another aspect.

A true cupping session done per the standard format would of course take the brewing methods out of the equation.  I can only trust that using a consistent brewing method will give me a reasonable denominator across all the coffees I cup.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: rasqual on November 14, 2012, 10:29:49 PM
I say that only with only part of my tongue in my cheek.

The mark of a conflicted palate, I'd say.   ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: headchange4u on November 15, 2012, 07:40:00 AM
I contacted Able about the broken lip on my Kone v3. They immediately shipped me a replacement Kone, no questions asked. Awesome customer service.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on November 15, 2012, 07:47:40 AM
This might have already been answered somewhere in these nineteen pages but I got tired of looking. Do I need to adjust my grind when using the Kone in my V60 and Chemex or do I stick with the same grind as I use with paper?

My Kone 3 should be arriving today so I am bumping Eric's question for my own purposes.
I will be comparing this to using the Hario V60 with paper filters...
What do I need to know from the get-go?

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: milowebailey on November 15, 2012, 08:06:24 AM

What do I need to know from the get-go?

Susan

Don't poke yourself with the pointy end... it hurts.  And watch the video for tips

Single Cup Brewing: Using the Kone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOnyhcnpISo#ws)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on November 15, 2012, 09:00:14 AM
Thanks, Larry,
I kinda wish he hadn't spit in the equipment first, but....
I got the idea ....

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: YasBean on November 15, 2012, 09:28:30 AM
Nice movie!
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on November 15, 2012, 04:37:02 PM
Don't poke yourself with the pointy end...

Kone 3 just arrived and guess what: 
NO pointy end....a small (1/8"?) flat round bottom.
Lucky for me 'cuz I'd a hurt myself for sure....

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BozemanEric on November 15, 2012, 05:19:49 PM
Do you really grind finer than a filtered pour over, as in the movie?  When I tried my normal, filtered pour over grind I got a ton of sediment.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: mp on November 15, 2012, 07:27:00 PM
Don't poke yourself with the pointy end...

Kone 3 just arrived and guess what: 
NO pointy end....a small (1/8"?) flat round bottom.
Lucky for me 'cuz I'd a hurt myself for sure....

Susan

You go girl!

Let us know what you think of Mr. Kone.

 ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 15, 2012, 07:43:16 PM
Do you really grind finer than a filtered pour over, as in the movie?  When I tried my normal, filtered pour over grind I got a ton of sediment.

12 on the Virtuoso, and very little sediment here.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on November 16, 2012, 09:40:50 AM

12 on the Virtuoso, and very little sediment here.

Ditto #12 on the Virtuoso....haven't found any sediment yet, but I'm still enjoying the first cup....
I like it !!!

Did someone say the previous versions had different size/spacing on the holes as they came up the sides of the filter?  Mine has all the same size holes.

My pour was probably a bit too slow.  I finished emptying the measured water out of the kettle at 2:45 but the drawdown didn't finish until 3:55.   Still it tastes good.

And, pouring right into the middle feels all wrong, but except for one time when my hand just would not obey and did a slow whirl around half way to the perimeter, I did as I was told.

Still tastes really good.....:-)))

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on November 16, 2012, 09:53:16 AM
My understanding was that Gen 1 had larger holes, optimized for commercial grinders, Gen 2 had smaller holes which resulted in less sediment for most users, but slower pours for large batches.

I thought I had heard that Gen 3 was designed to be optimized for smaller and larger batches, with either different sized holes or a different pattern so that when you poured a large batch it would pour though at a good rate taking into account the added restriction of the additional coffee grounds.  I could be smoking coffee grounds, though.

Does anyone have one of each so they could take pix?
This is the first one I have ever seen, so I have no idea how it compares to earlier ones.
I do think it has been optimized for me, though....

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on November 16, 2012, 09:57:18 AM
I've got Gen 1 and Gen 2, I'll take a picture once Gen 3 from the travelling roadshow comes my way unless someone else has the set and can post it before I can.
That will be interesting.
I suspect that tips for using Kones are different depending on which generation is being used.

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on November 16, 2012, 10:17:43 AM
I too recall Able saying the holes were somehow graduated in the 3, for different batches.  I don't stay in the middle; I go anywhere I want.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on December 03, 2012, 10:16:26 AM
Update on the KONE set-ups follows.  I will succumb and buy the entire set up.  It is not if but when (pic at end of post).  Keith has struggled to get the pot/filter holder out the door.

"Hello Backers!

First, thank you all for being so supportive and patient. It is because of you that this project is possible and the Kone Brewing System will exist.

Lets first go through the reward levels and what has shipped.

MUG ONLY REWARDS (all shipped)

This rewards level has already been fulfilled and shipped. If you have any questions please contact us at info@ablebrewing.com.

KONE ONLY REWARDS (all shipped)

This rewards level has already been fulfilled and shipped. If you have any questions please contact us at info@ablebrewing.com.

KONE + MUG REWARDS (all shipped)

We have shipped all these rewards as of this week. International please allow 3-6 weeks for delivery. It is unpredictable the arrival and transit times for your rewards. We thank you for your patience and hope you enjoy the filter and mug when they arrive.

We have received positive feedback from those who have their kone and mug rewards. Thanks again for backing our project and please keep in touch!

Where is my KONE Brewing System?

We want to get your rewards to you ASAP. It is not our goal to delay and cause any hard feelings about not having and enjoying your KBS and morning coffee.

Some updates on where we are:

Custom made and printed boxes

We have these beautiful boxes designed that will be made here in Portland. The box is completely custom made to have inserts that will hold the ceramic nice and snug in transit. Also full printed with instructions and information. I'll post photos of these once they come in. Final touches are being made on graphic work and fit since we changed the brewer dimensions from the first version.

Silicone insulating band and o ring

We received a sample run of the insulating band feature that was added. It looks great and functions just as expected. This new feature allows you to hold the hot ceramic and also provides better grip. The o ring has also been tested and helps keep the lid in place a bit better with reducing the ceramic on ceramic rattle from the lid and kettle.

These elements were not a part of the original design as pictured on kickstarter but it is important to me to add them for a more positive user experience.

Ceramic production

The ceramic studio started making brewers a few weeks ago. The first batch came out looking good but not great. With ceramic there is some trial and error on getting the wall thickness and surfaces as specified. I am learning that this medium is truly an art.

From the first 6 made only one was the right thickness and fit. We have used it as our model going forward. Pictures are below.

Brewer Handle

The new handle design is great. It now allows for a full grip using all fingers comfortably. The being made of ceramic and holding up to one liter can get heavy. This was important for me to fix so the pot felt nice and secure in your hand.

Pour Spout

The dribble is almost gone. With the new design and shape the spout now has a much better pour. We have learned some things with ceramic though. The glaze they put on creates a surface tension that causes a minimal dribble to occur. I have tested other ceramic pots and they all do this. Some of you have commented that your pots at home also do this. As the current design stands there will be that very minimal amount but you can achieve a clean pour if you are mindful of the pour.

This is not good enough for me. I want to solve this. Why cant the spout be dribble free? We tested the surface tension by dipping the spout of our kettle finished and glazed in super glue. It pours perfect!! No annoying dribble! So this means our design and shape is ideal. Its the glaze that is cause the water to cling to the spout and down the body for that small annoying dribble. So we are on the hunt for a glaze of some sort that we can coat the spout in that will have the same affect as the super glue. It will be permanent and food safe just like the glaze used in the glazing process. I'm hopeful we can add this final element. This also is not originally intended as a step or feature but I want to make it as best as I can.

Limited RED Edition

The red should look just as we did our test sample a couple months ago. I will post some photos done by our photographer once we finalize the red and have time to do a photo session. Most likely after the Holidays.

KONE Brewing System photos. New design.

 
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: ScareYourPassenger on December 03, 2012, 12:38:08 PM
I liked the all white look. Too bad they couldn't get the silicone ring made to match.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: RobertL on December 26, 2012, 06:04:28 PM
I received a Kone 3 for Christmas I've only used it twice but I can tell it is much different than the Kone 2 I previously owned. I used 19 grams of coffee, a grind of 12 on the Preciso and 335 grams of water brewed in a Hario v60. The total time for the pour was around four minutes which was a bit longer than I would have liked. Completely opposite experience from the Kone 2 where my pours were always on the fast side. I need to get my grind dialed in but so far I like the Kone 3. I did get a bit of sludge in the bottom of my cup but I was never a fan of single cup brewing with the Kone. I prefer to brew in the Chemex or other Carafe so I can decant my cup off the top leaving the small amount of sludge behind. No big deal though I will have a new Chemex to keep the Kone company soon.  :)
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: RobertL on January 04, 2013, 06:58:25 AM
Is anyone else struggling to get a less than 4 minute pour with the Kone 3? I have coarsened my grind up a lot and still I have not been able to get a pour that is less than 4 minutes. I think the holes in the Kone 3 are regulating the flow more than the grind. I have been keeping the water level low because that is what worked best with my Kone 2 but it might be opposite with this Kone. I am going to try a higher water level using more of the holes to speed up the drain/pour time.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on January 04, 2013, 09:20:36 AM
Is anyone else struggling to get a less than 4 minute pour with the Kone 3? I have coarsened my grind up a lot and still I have not been able to get a pour that is less than 4 minutes....

I use a med fine grind.  3-3.0 minutes.  Hold your KONE up to the light.  Fines get embedded.  Bet that is your problem. I use a rough backed tuffie dish sponge scrubbie dubbie.  Keeps it free.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on January 05, 2013, 07:42:16 AM
Is anyone else struggling to get a less than 4 minute pour with the Kone 3? ...

For curiosity sake, I timed it this morning.  I use a full 30 second bloom with about a 2:1 ratio of water to coffee.  Ran a full 4.0 minutes.

If it tastes good, celebrate.  I wonder if most of just say, 3 to 3.5 minutes or so...
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on January 05, 2013, 08:23:51 AM
For curiosity sake, I timed it this morning.  I use a full 30 second bloom with about a 2:1 ratio of water to coffee.  Ran a full 4.0 minutes.
If it tastes good, celebrate.  I wonder if most of just say, 3 to 3.5 minutes or so...

This always confuses me.  Doesn't the time depend on the actual amount of water poured through?  When I use my Kone I am never using more than 400 ml.   I suspect that most of you are using more.  Shouldn't our comparisons include the actual amount poured through and the time it took?

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on January 05, 2013, 09:38:38 AM
...

This always confuses me.  Doesn't the time depend on the actual amount of water poured through?  ...

Susan

You can assume I am talking liter unless otherwise stated.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on January 05, 2013, 09:43:05 AM
You can assume I am talking liter unless otherwise stated.

Okie doke....
and you can assume that with my dwindling marble supply that I will forget and ask you about this again.... :-[ :-[
I will try, however, not to be a pest....

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on January 05, 2013, 09:43:40 AM
You asked a reasonable question.  Now what was it again?
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on January 05, 2013, 10:00:02 AM
You asked a reasonable question.  Now what was it again?

Um......I forget....
 ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: RobertL on January 06, 2013, 01:02:10 PM
Is anyone else struggling to get a less than 4 minute pour with the Kone 3? ...

For curiosity sake, I timed it this morning.  I use a full 30 second bloom with about a 2:1 ratio of water to coffee.  Ran a full 4.0 minutes.

If it tastes good, celebrate.  I wonder if most of just say, 3 to 3.5 minutes or so...

Checked my Kone for plugged holes and all were clear. After experimenting with grind size and slurry level I found my happy place. This Kone can definitely handle a coarser grind compared to the Kone 2.

This always confuses me.  Doesn't the time depend on the actual amount of water poured through?  When I use my Kone I am never using more than 400 ml.   I suspect that most of you are using more.  Shouldn't our comparisons include the actual amount poured through and the time it took?

Susan


It is my understanding that the brew time should not change according to the amount of water you are using. 
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on January 06, 2013, 02:10:39 PM
It is my understanding that the brew time should not change according to the amount of water you are using.

Really?  Really??????
So my 400 ml pour should take the same amount of time as B/J's 1000 ml pour?

Oh my....so hard to get my head around that....but I will work on it.

Susan
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: BoldJava on January 06, 2013, 02:32:00 PM
...
So my 400 ml pour should take the same amount of time as B/J's 1000 ml pour?

Oh my....so hard to get my head around that....but I will work on it.

Susan

Think of it as a liquid trying to penetrate and drain through a mass.

1000 ml thru 65grams coffee;  ratio 15:1

400ml thru 27grams coffee:  ratio 15:1

Should end up in the same pour time.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: SJM on January 06, 2013, 02:51:45 PM
...
So my 400 ml pour should take the same amount of time as B/J's 1000 ml pour?

Oh my....so hard to get my head around that....but I will work on it.

Susan

Well thank you for that.
Now it makes perfect sense.

A good teacher is priceless !!!

Susan

Think of it as a liquid trying to penetrate and drain through a mass.

1000 ml thru 65grams coffee;  ratio 15:1

400ml thru 27grams coffee:  ratio 15:1

Should end up in the same pour time.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: peter on January 06, 2013, 04:41:10 PM
...
So my 400 ml pour should take the same amount of time as B/J's 1000 ml pour?

Oh my....so hard to get my head around that....but I will work on it.

Susan

Well thank you for that.
Now it makes perfect sense.

A good teacher is priceless !!!

Susan

Think of it as a liquid trying to penetrate and drain through a mass.

1000 ml thru 65grams coffee;  ratio 15:1

400ml thru 27grams coffee:  ratio 15:1

Should end up in the same pour time.

And because the Kone has holes all over, the bigger brew has the same amount of holes to go through.
Title: Re: Able KONE
Post by: Intrepid510 on August 06, 2014, 08:24:29 AM
I think the deal at Prima is good, 75 for Kone + Chemex.

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