Green Coffee Buying Club
Vendor Discussion Boards => old Traveling road shows => Topic started by: BoldJava on January 06, 2013, 10:14:13 AM
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Kettles, kettles, and more kettles. John F talks up the Takahiro kettle (.9 liter, stainless steel, reputed to be the best kettle on the market for its ability to control the pour). Thought we would get a road show going:
^ $12 entrance fee
^ Buys you one week with the kettle ("I wonder if I really need a decent kettle for pourovers...) and
^ a 10% chance of being the winner to keep it (Jim Spain has his wife pick a number -- that number goes to the end of the list and gets it last).
Jump aboard. Need 10 entrants? Who is in? I will order it, put it in the lineup on Jan 25 for our throwdown, and ship it on after it competes:
Entrants:
1) Bekeld, paid
2) BozemanEric, paid
3) Yakster, paid
4) MMW, paid
5) Jimbo, paid
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7) RGRosz78, paid
Eight) HeadChange4U, paid
9) Pozzka, paid
10) FFFolks, paid
11) B|Java
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Winner:
6) Jano, paid
(http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/fcollection2007/cabinet/tablewear/img10313485639.jpg)
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In, please. There is no way a kettle could be this wonderful, so have to test it.
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In, please. There is no way a kettle could be this wonderful, so have to test it.
That is the science teacher in you...<grins>
Gotcha listed.
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9 people will be sad when this is over. ;)
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I thought I got ripped off when I paid $50 for the Hario. I must see what a $120 kettle can do. Do you want PayPal now or when we get ten?
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I thought I got ripped off when I paid $50 for the Hario. I must see what a $120 kettle can do. Do you want PayPal now or when we get ten?
When we get our 10.
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These threads are currently talking me out of messing with pour overs at all, even on sale and red;)
Sent from my iPhone5 using Tapatalk so pardon my spelling.
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In.
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4 in, 6 to go.
B|Java
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Just for grins, throw me under the ... I mean, I'm in.
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Just for grins, throw me under....
5 under; 5 to go.
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Why not, in, maybe it'll help me achieve the elusive Rao spin.
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I thought that was a cricket move.
Gotcha; getting there -- 4 more.
B|Java
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I thought I got ripped off when I paid $50 for the Hario. I must see what a $120 kettle can do.
I love my Hario, but ... count me in.
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Hey, down to just 3 needed. Let's make this a go!
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I debated long and hard, but in the end...sign me up.
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I debated long and hard, but in the end...sign me up.
I hear you. I have had those mental debates on more than one occasion.
Just two folks to go. Hustle.
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Sure, I'll bite.
This is a stovetop model correct?
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One more. Lets get this done people. ;)
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I'm glad this will get done.
I'm very happy with the Tak but don't have anything to compare it to. It will be interesting to see some additional comparison points.
For me it is worth the price because I never purchased another kettle to add to my overall expense...total upgrade avoidance.
I'm interested to see some opinions...
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Sure, I'll bite.
This is a stovetop model correct?
Yes, stovetop model. We need one more and the roadshow begins.
B|Java
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Ok, I can't stand any more peer pressure...I'm in. :)
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Woohoo!
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OK, fine feathered friends. There are 11 of us. The kettle is ordered and on the way. It will make its debut at our pourover throw-down on Friday, Jan 25th.
Costs:
1) If you are comfortable using "personal" tab on PPal, send me $11.66 in cash.
2) If you are more comfortable paying with "purchase" tab, send $12.31 to cover the fees.
Send it to boldjava at sidewalkmystic dot com. Once all have paid, I will have Bro' Spain ask Patti to pick a number, 1-11. The selected winner goes to the bottom of the list and gets to keep it.
The rest of you? Keep it for about a week and put it through its paces. Reviews appreciated.
Thanks, B|Java
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Hero kettle salute!
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I am a PayPal novice. Will someone explain to me what the personal tab is and why I might not feel comfortable using it?
I used the personal tab. I noticed it said I would not be charged the $.63 if I had my bank account linked to it. Do you all have your bank account linked to PayPal? The card I have linked is a debit card, but I feel a little uncomfortable giving them my full bank account information. Should I feel uncomfortable or is it completely relatively safe?
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I am a PayPal novice. Will someone explain to me what the personal tab is and why I might not feel comfortable using it?
I used the personal tab. I noticed it said I would not be charged the $.63 if I had my bank account linked to it. Do you all have your bank account linked to PayPal? The card I have linked is a debit card, but I feel a little uncomfortable giving them my full bank account information. Should I feel uncomfortable or is it completely relatively safe?
When sending a payment as "Personal" through Paypal you avoid the fees but you lose all the purchase protection guarantees that normally come along with a regular Paypal transaction. That's why you never send anything via Personal unless you really trust the individual on the other end (like Dave for example). If the deal goes bad you are basically SOL using the Personal payment option..
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PayPal sent.
Let the games begin!
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Hero kettle salute!
Is that your arch nemesis? :D
Out of curiosity, what/who is that???
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1. Email received - kettle is boxed and will be in UPS's hands by 5pm - we are all about to Foster'ings.
2. PM sent to Jim Spain to have Patti pick a number.
Stay tuned, America.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_y7JTk7EB9G4/TBBI0yTzWAI/AAAAAAAAEB8/-LZ6TRYXE0s/s400/4685984283_4c4ebcdf7b.jpg)
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Hero kettle salute!
Is that your arch nemesis? :D
Out of curiosity, what/who is that???
Very cheesy 80's TV, patron saint of missing/unreadable/unnecessary technical manuals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_American_Hero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_American_Hero)
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...
Entrants:
1) Bekeld, paid
2) BozemanEric, paid
3) Yakster, paid
4) MMW, paid
5) Jimbo, paid
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7) RGRosz78, paid
Eight) HeadChange4U, paid
9) Pozzka, paid
10) FFFolks, paid
11) B|Java
-----
Winner: 6) Jano, paid
Ladies and Gentlemen,
From Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, our wandering Spain couple says, Jano wins:
(http://coachdawnwrites.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/six.png)
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UPS Surprise - on the porch this p.m.
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Unveiling.
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Smooooooooooooth.
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A tip for Jeff.
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A tip for the rest of you.
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A tip for the rest of you.
It looks like a waterslide ride at Disneyland.
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The only way to fly. ;)
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I'm thrilled, excited, and embarassed. This will be such a long wait, oy. Looks great, can't wait!!
And THANK YOU!
Jano
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Takahiro is in my carryon next to the leftover Milwaukee Muffalata...think italian sub with chopped green & black olives, peppers, & whole garlic cloves marinated in olive oil. I had unwrapped it to have some lunch on the train and folks began to cough hard. ;D
I loved the way it balanced as I poured. It is much heavier than B|Snout's $30 Korean wonder. It could be that the balance, not the tip, is the critical factor. More testing is needed. First I have to roast something as I left my Kenyan Gotomboya at Dave's.
Gee, I'm not sure if I have enough beans. .. :o
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... First I have to roast something as I left my Kenyan Gotomboya at Dave's.
Gee, I'm not sure if I have enough beans. .. :o
Left? I had it hidden on the top of the piano in the den for my personal stash <grins>. It's here...
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... First I have to roast something as I left my Kenyan Gotomboya at Dave's.
Gee, I'm not sure if I have enough beans. .. :o
Left? I had it hidden on the top of the piano in the den for my personal stash <grins>. It's here...
Was that an even trade for the camel you 'left' with Diane? <inside joke>
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Takahiro
Strengths:
1. Balance, feel.
2. Tip. If offers all the control that John suggests.
3. Quality. This is a high-grade stainless 18/8. Polished, with a nice shine. Extremely well made.
4. Design. The body has a very wide top. It is a breeze to fill from our water cooler (the Paico has a narrow top and is awkward to get into tight spots).
Cons:
1. Price. $120. The Paico costs $35 shipped and offers equal control though it lacks the heft and "quality feel" that the Takahiro does.
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I searched my bags--camel is not going to Iowa. Who got the camel?
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Please cup it before the use by date and let me know how I can improve that roast.
... First I have to roast something as I left my Kenyan Gotomboya at Dave's.
Gee, I'm not sure if I have enough beans. .. :o
Left? I had it hidden on the top of the piano in the den for my personal stash <grins>. It's here...
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I did some pouring w/ both the Paico and Takahiro, but why I didn't think to put my modded Bonavita out for the test-drive I'll never know.
While I found the Paico could do as slow a trickle as the Tak, it was far less easy to do so. It was like a knife edge w/ the Paico; a little more water and it was too much, just a little less water and it was dribbling. So I'd give the thumbs up to the Takahiro for fine control because it was far easier to hit the fine stream and had a wider sweet spot for that tight control. While the Paico can do it, it would be very difficult to do the fine stream while move the kettle around and aiming at different parts of the slurry and/or bloom. When they were empty, the Paico was noticeably lighter, but still didn't feel flimsy or poorly made.
If I had the funds and thought I was going to need a kettle that would last my lifetime and be handed down to future generations, the Takahiro felt it was up to it and would be my choice.
All that said, I believe my modded Bonavita is even easier to pour w/ than the Takahiro. But again, if I was doing a pourover or three every day for the rest of my life I'm sure I'd be buying a new Bonavita every so often and the Tak would be sitting there proudly with a smirk on its spout, as that thing ain't never wearing out.
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It's probably less than $5 a year....totally cheap. 8)
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It's probably less than $5 a year....totally cheap. 8)
I know it was a joke but it's true. That is the way I look at a purchase like this. Good on you. If I didn't feel a need to have a 1.2 liter (almost opted for the 1.6 but that would be too heavy), I would buy the Tak for the duration of this earthly venture.
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1st look: Hario vs Takahiro
Venue: kitchen sink
Pour: Continuous, no other movement
Hand: dominant (R)
Problem1: How does the flow of water from a kettle vary with small hand movements?
Problem2: Does the weight of a kettle create fatigue in the pouring hand? (I have focal dystonia in my pointer and middle fingers which radiates to the rest of the hand and wrist.)
Hypothesis: I predict that the flow of water from the Takahiro will be controlled easier with less fatigue and fewer muscle movements than the Hario.
Data Hario-hand: the angle of the handle allows change in the pour stream with movements of the pinky finger and outside edge of hand. Remainder of hand supports kettle. Material of handle (resin/plastic?) helps to create friction so hand does not slip. A straight handle helps to lessen muscle fatigue. At the end of the session, hand did have a minimal amount of stiffness in the knuckles and outside of arm by the wrist.
Data Hario-pour: had some difficulty controlling rate of pour. Varied between fat stream and rapid dripping. Many times larger hand motions were needed to restart pour.
Data Takahiro-hand: the curvature of the handle allows change in the pour stream with movements of pointer and middle fingers. Remainder of hand supports kettle. Material of handle (stainless steel) does not create friction, thereby making the hand grip harder to compensate. At the end of the session, hand had considerable pain in the pointer/middle fingers and wrist.
Data Takahiro-pour: any difficulty controlling rate of pour was a result of pain. Pour was extremely responsive to muscle movements. It was easy to over-control.
Conclusion: My hypothesis was not supported. However, several factors may have affected these results.
1. Did not have a rest period for the hand between the different kettles.
2. Did not control for variables of time of pour or for weight of water.
Repeat the experiment twice, using 500 grams of water and 4 minute pour timed by the Pour Over iPad app. Rest for 5 minutes between pours. For the first time, use the Takahiro first then the Hario then switch kettles for the second.
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Data Hario-pour: had some difficulty controlling rate of pour. Varied between fat stream and rapid dripping. Many times larger hand motions were needed to restart pour.
Excluding the other unfortunate issue you have to live with at the moment, have you found it easier to control with less water in it? That's been the case for me, I used to fill it up all the way to do my pourovers, but now I just put in a bit more water than I really need (200-300g).
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Data Hario-pour: had some difficulty controlling rate of pour. Varied between fat stream and rapid dripping. Many times larger hand motions were needed to restart pour.
...have you found it easier to control with less water in it? That's been the case for me, I used to fill it up all the way to do my pourovers, but now I just put in a bit more water than I really need (200-300g).
I will look at that tonight before I do a controlled head-to-head.
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I will look at that tonight before I do a controlled head-to-head.
Get your science class busy on a project with it... <wink>
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I will look at that tonight before I do a controlled head-to-head.
Get your science class busy on a project with it... <wink>
Alas, if only I had a class looking at the physics of fluids. We're in Agriculture (Environmental Science) and evolution (Bio). But that does give me an idea... 8)
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have you found it easier to control with less water in it? That's been the case for me, I used to fill it up all the way to do my pourovers, but now I just put in a bit more water than I really need (200-300g).
Jano, using 200g of water, I found that it was easier to control the pour with the Hario. The Takahiro was too finicky--I couldn't stop quickly enough to stop at 200 or to pour only a few drops to slide into 200. I was always 3-6g over.
Some of that may be fine motor control--I don't have it.
Final thoughts:
Pros: does not dribble
Bling factor
Wide mouth
Easy to clean
Pours a very fine stream
Cons: must be towel-dried if you don't water spots
Scratches will show
Learning curve
Handle is slippery
The Hario and Bonavita are comfy to use. No frills, no fuss. The Takahiro sits there and demands more from you. I can see it sneering if I used it on a roast that just wasn't quite there, but am drinking it anyway because it's good enough.
It's not worth the extra $85 to me. Moving on to Montana as soon as I get an address.
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Moving to Montana soon .
Gonna raise me up some dental floss. Raisin' it up, waxin' it down. Put it in little boxes that I can sell up town.
Father Frank, in case you don't know.
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I had no clue...thank heavens for Google.
Frank Zappa Moving To Montana (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ialhaxhr7iA#)
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My personal favorite Montana qoute:
“I’m in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection. But with Montana it is love. And it’s difficult to analyze love when you’re in it ...â€
–John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley
I am patiently awaiting the arrival of the lavish kettle.
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Never mind. :-[
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I think it would be interesting for every final review to decide if they think it's worth the $85 or not.
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I think it would be interesting for every final review to decide if they think it's worth the $85 or not.
Knowing myself, if I think it is $120 kettle, I will end up buying one.
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Yeah...two pours and you are buying one. 8)
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I really, really wanted this to work for me, but the road show did what it was supposed to do. The "ooh, shiny!" lost to real life. Now I have to wait for another shiny thing to come around so I can say "Huzzah! It must be mine"! ;D
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Moving to Montana soon .
Gonna raise me up some dental floss. Raisin' it up, waxin' it down. Put it in little boxes that I can sell up town.
Father Frank, in case you don't know.
Frank was a genius.
Pro tip, don't attempt to karoke "Dinah Moe Hum" in mixed company.
The voice of reason. Or perhaps, experience.
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My thoughts on this, before I get my hands one the bling.
I am going in as a doubting Thomas. I can't imagine it being worth the price. But, I have no experience with kettles of this sort, and definitely wanted to try before I buy. Maybe when it makes its way to my house it will be able to bring me to the dark side.
For my money, I think I would prefer the Bonavita Variable Temperature Kettle.
We'll see.
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She showed up today. I use she because this Kettle is just too pretty to be referred to as a he. Unfortunately, it was after my caffeine cut off time that the mailman dropped her off. I am in the process of roasting some Gesha and the 2011 Colombia COE #1 so I can do some proper testing later in the week.
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I can't imagine it being worth the price.
I had my doubts pre purchase but now (for me) it's easily worth it.
I like equipment that surpasses my ability/need more than I like it the other way around.
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After the limited use I will say, you can get a much slower pour out of this kettle than the Hario. In fact, I was not paying attention and during the first use I added a full minute to my pour over brew time using the same grind. In the cup I cannot tell difference in taste or the amount of silt left in the bottom of the pot. If at weeks end, I decide this is a must-have accessory, I would want a larger kettle. The .9L is just small for all my needs.
I think the ergonomics on the Hario are better though. I did notice my arm and hand tiring towards the end of pours.
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The second day of use revealed a major design flaw for those of us in the high country. My first pour over this morning was done with 24 ounces of water, close to the top of the pot. Water at my elevation boils at 203° so we usually use it right off, or on the edge of, a boil. The small hole in the lid does not allow enough pressure to be released. The pot tends to geyser on the stove and while you are pouring it. When I would first start the poor, the pressure of the boil would cause the spout to gush spurts of water that would hit the side of the Kone and the counter beyond. This aspect alone, for us living in elevation, could be a deal-breaker.
I am still holding steady with the belief that the kettle is still too small. It would never work for my larger Chemex. I also still believe that the Hario is more comfortable in the hand as well.
I must add that, when the spout is not geysering, it has a more consistent pour that any kettle I have ever used.
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The second day of use revealed a major design flaw for those of us in the high country.
You just need the larger one.
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You just need the larger one.
They don't make one yet, do they? I really think this would solve the problem. I have to confess, I love the pour on this thing. It is almost too exacting.
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I think the goat says they do make one.
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You just need the larger one.
They don't make one yet, do they? I really think this would solve the problem. I have to confess, I love the pour on this thing. It is almost too exacting.
Prima Coffee indicated to me in an email that a 1.5 liter can be ordered -- it's close to $200.
(http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/branding-coffee/cabinet/takahiro/pot_s_takablack15l.jpg)
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I did paper in the V60 this morning and noticed that with this kettle I end up with almost an entirely flat bed of grounds after the brew. There are a few that hang on the side but almost all of the used grounds are perfectly level on the bottom. I have never gotten the uniformity with the Hario.
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What about the Hario is it that causes the grounds to not be flat?
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What about the Hario is it that causes the grounds to not be flat?
They are usually flat, just not as flat. I don't think I can get a slow enough pour out of the Hario to get them as level as I can with this kettle. All my extraction times, with the same grind, are longer using this kettle. It pours a lot slower.
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sorry, are we talking about the different kettles flow rate as the cause of the phenomenon here? or just the kettle in general?
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sorry, are we talking about the different kettles flow rate as the cause of the phenomenon here? or just the kettle in general?
The kettle. Behold its mystic powers :D I jest, yes, he is talking about the flow rate. :)
On another note: a constant 3-4 minute dribble for 200g water using the hario is stressful. I'm looking forward to trying this Kettle of Pouring. Meantime, I'll continue the Matt Perger way. Just curse that bloody Rao spin.. can't figger it out!
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sorry, are we talking about the different kettles flow rate as the cause of the phenomenon here? or just the kettle in general?
The kettle. Behold its mystic powers :D I jest, yes, he is talking about the flow rate. :)
On another note: a constant 3-4 minute dribble for 200g water using the hario is stressful. I'm looking forward to trying this Kettle of Pouring. Meantime, I'll continue the Matt Perger way. Just curse that bloody Rao spin.. can't figger it out!
wow, i gotta touch that kettle LOL
but yeah, i was thinking of plugging something inside the hario's spout to restrict the flow rate :D
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but yeah, i was thinking of plugging something inside the hario's spout to restrict the flow rate :D
I have a flow restrictor in my Hario - it was a GREAT improvement IMHO.
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Prima Coffee indicated to me in an email that a 1.5 liter can be ordered -- it's close to $200.
The size is a limiting factor for me as well. And, at $200 the larger one is not even an option. so, at this point I'm just looking to see what difference this type of kettle makes over my Bodum kettle.
Jimbo
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so, at this point I'm just looking to see what difference this type of kettle makes over my Bodum kettle.
Jimbo
What are you brewing with? If it's pourover, where you need control, try the cotter pin mod on your Bodum.
I'm still convinced that for pouring control, the shape of the spout is more important than the rate of flow, and hence a flow restrictor is an afterthought.
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Wow. I had not read about this until you mentioned it Peter ...
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10596.0 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10596.0)
Definitely worth trying out. This weekend when I get home.
Thanks for the tip.
Jimbo
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Takahiro Final Thoughts
First I need to preface this review by saying that I have never seen a kettle pour as consistently or fine as this one does.
That being said, I am unimpressed. I made a 24 ounce pour over this morning. It spurted water all over our freshly cleaned stove then continue to geysered water onto the sides of the Kone on pour. This might be a great kettle for someone that does single cup pours or someone living at sea level. However, it is not even a good kettle for me. At this point, I would not even consider trading it for my Hario. I would consider the larger version but $200 is a little hard for me to swallow for a kettle. It is beautiful and I'm sure it works very well for some. For me, at 5000 feet, it was just not the right fit. I will have it boxed up and will try and get it on its way to the Bay Area today.
Follow-up: My second round this morning was done at a 14 ounce pour. The kettle worked flawlessly. Too bad I rarely do single cup pours.
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...
Entrants:
1) Bekeld, paid
2) BozemanEric, paid
3) Yakster, paid
4) MMW, paid
5) Jimbo, paid
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7) RGRosz78, paid
Eight) HeadChange4U, paid
9) Pozzka, paid
10) FFFolks, paid
11) B|Java
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Winner:
6) Jano, paid
...
Yakman, stay under the radar with this thing.
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This might be a great kettle for someone that does single cup pours or someone living at sea level.
For me, at 5000 feet, it was just not the right fit.
Follow-up: My second round this morning was done at a 14 ounce pour. The kettle worked flawlessly. Too bad I rarely do single cup pours.
[/quote]
I'm at 5280' and the Tak is probably unbeatable for my uses. Unlike you and B I bigkettle I exclusively use it for single cup brewing.
I am surprised that the kettle gets thumbs down from both of the last reviewers...
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I am surprised that the kettle gets thumbs down from both of the last reviewers...
It's a quality kettle. For that kind of money, though, I would like a good morning kiss.
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I am surprised that the kettle gets thumbs down from both of the last reviewers...
B|Mover says the Tak offers more control than his pouring technique calls for; he wasn't giving it a thumbs down, just doesn't need it.
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Again, perspective...
I say the Tak does give a good morning kiss in the form of a big ol mug of coffee.
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I didn't give it t'umbs down. I think John was referring to BekelD and BozemanE. I said that I would buy the 1.2L for $200 if I were to start all over again. And, at my age, I take kisses when offered.
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So it's 1 thumbs up and two down so far?
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So it's 1 thumbs up and two down so far?
Oui.
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Oui.
I'm interested to see if it ends up over 50% favorable.
Hey, Jano...maybe you wanna sell me this used hunk of junk for $40. ;D ;D
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This is not to be critical of anyone's pouring style or condescending, but your pour (John) may just require lots of control, and others may not. The pouring of many may be well-suited to the Hario etc. and you (John) are squeezing whatever you can out of the method and need fine little streams. I'll be surprised if more than half say they need the Takahiro.
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This is not to be critical of anyone's pouring style or condescending, but your pour (John) may just require lots of control, and others may not. The pouring of many may be well-suited to the Hario etc. and you (John) are squeezing whatever you can out of the method and need fine little streams. I'll be surprised if more than half say they need the Takahiro.
This could be a can of worms but what you say above could also apply to espresso. ???
Maybe people are more comfortable purchasing more than they need for espresso but not for pourover.
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This is not to be critical of anyone's pouring style or condescending, but your pour (John) may just require lots of control, and others may not. The pouring of many may be well-suited to the Hario etc. and you (John) are squeezing whatever you can out of the method and need fine little streams. I'll be surprised if more than half say they need the Takahiro.
This could be a can of worms but what you say above could also apply to espresso. ???
Maybe people are more comfortable purchasing more than they need for espresso but not for pourover.
Well, I try to apply my thinking of puck preparation and extraction to the pourover. You know, forming the bed, preinfusion, avoid channeling, maintain temp, correct overall time...
Always buy the best and grow into it is a good motto.
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Definitely a thumbs-up on a single cup pour. Unfortunately there are two of us in the household.
I would probably give the larger kettle a thumbs up but I don't know if I'm willing to drop 200 bucks on it.
I will admit the controllability of the pour is unparalleled to anything I have had in my hands. I usually do a 24 ounce pour with the breakfast and another 24 ounce pour for our go cups on the way out the door. With 24+ ounces of liquid in the kettle, at max temp, water would spittle out the spout completely negating the wonderful pouring ability the spout allows. If I lived alone, this kettle would probably be on my wish list right now. Then again, if I lived alone, I would have a lot more money to spend on coffee gear.
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...Maybe people are more comfortable purchasing more than they need for espresso but not for pourover.
Or maybe the item is not really needed to make a decent cup of pour over coffee...
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It's certainly not needed.
A fire and a soup can on a stick would work.
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Very little of what we do is needed to make coffee. We are geeking it to the 2nd power or 3rd for some of us.
The Takahiro is the Bentley of the kettle lineup. Some will be more than pleased with a Ford for a variety of reasons; some will find the Bentley too nuanced for their tastes/pocketbook. It isn't if it's a good kettle -- that's settled. It is a matter of individual taste, cost, value. I would be more surprised if all said it was the kettle of their dreams.
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I love it when NEED enters into these conversations as it often does. Are we not a group of people that have thousands invested in coffee equipment and, for some of us, hundreds of pounds of green beans stashed throughout our houses?
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It's certainly not needed.
A fire and a soup can on a stick would work.
Now, to finish answering your question, find a suitably cheap and simple way to make a shot of espresso. Jeffo makes a cup he likes enough to share using a microwave and a cup - pretty common kitchen stuff these days. I haven't read the recipe for throwing together an shot of espresso with similar items - so people spend large amounts on the appliance needed. If it took a similar priced item to make coffee then similar money likely would be spent, but it does not.
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My bet is most people have way more machine than they need / are using / are exploiting the limitations of.
It's acceptable to do that with espresso....my theory is that it's less acceptable with pourover. Perhaps it's viewed as "simple".
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I think the process is simple.
Water and ground beans filtered using consistent portions equals a cup of pour over coffee. Once you get the water temp right and the grind size right the battle is won and you end up with a good cup of pour over coffee. An excellent cup would be more likely to happen using excellent beans rather than a perfectly poured measure of water.
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I understand your position.
Mine is that after bean, grind, and temp there is still pour. Exploiting most variables is good and more is better.
Every edge is worth considering (if you are obsessed like that). I do realize k cup brewers outnumber pouring kettles several thousands to one for a reason.
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The pour determines the evenness and fullness of the extraction. You don't want to waste coffee that's high-and-dry on the edge of the filter and not giving it up to the brew and you don't want to over-extract a channel of coffee in the center. The kettle and the filter shape both play a part in this.
I see you won't be enjoying the one button push french roast k cup anytime soon.
;)
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I see you won't be enjoying the one button push french roast k cup anytime soon.
;)
I can see that you clearly haven't met the Yak-man. Why that boy is way, way out there on the geek-plank. <hoot, hoot>
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The pour determines the evenness and fullness of the extraction. You don't want to waste coffee that's high-and-dry on the edge of the filter and not giving it up to the brew and you don't want to over-extract a channel of coffee in the center. The kettle and the filter shape both play a part in this.
True, but this requires only a steady hand and a waterproof container. The question of technique is not questioned at all, but the device to deliver the water is less important.
Lately I am watching the clock less and following the pulse of the bloom crust more - bloom crust goes down, more water goes in in a rhythmic pulse. Once the grind is dialed in this method gets me a time similar to my more technical clocked pours. The Bonavita spout allows for this level of control even if I am sure it will not fill an eye dropper from a foot away...
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Whenever you reach a level of total satisfaction stopping there sounds logical.
I will say that for those that see the differences between pouring kettles and in the cup it could matter. Those that dont obviously it wont.
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Lately I am watching the clock less and following the pulse of the bloom crust more - bloom crust goes down, more water goes in in a rhythmic pulse. Once the grind is dialed in this method gets me a time similar to my more technical clocked pours. The Bonavita spout allows for this level of control even if I am sure it will not fill an eye dropper from a foot away...
This sounds exactly like my technique. I only do single cup pour-overs, which are less demanding than the larger volumes.
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The Takahiro 900 ml kettle moves on to MMW tomorrow. I put it up mainly against the 700 ml Tiamo that I got from Trader Bold . . .
It is a knock-off, though probably the same manufacturer with whom Tiamo contracts.
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I hate to interrupt the road show, but I'm finding I want to drink more coffee now during the day (the roasts are just so tasty!), and I'd love to do just one cup. So I'm thinking of buying the V60-2 cup, hario filters, and a pot. I can go as cheap as $30 for the Bonavita stove kettle, $52 for the hario, or $65 for the 1l Tiamo. Suggestions? I'm not looking for the perfect setup, just something that'll give me a nice pourover cup.
Thanks everyone!
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I hate to interrupt the road show, but I'm finding I want to drink more coffee now during the day (the roasts are just so tasty!), and I'd love to do just one cup. So I'm thinking of buying the V60-2 cup, hario filters, and a pot. I can go as cheap as $30 for the Bonavita stove kettle, $52 for the hario, or $65 for the 1l Tiamo. Suggestions? I'm not looking for the perfect setup, just something that'll give me a nice pourover cup.
Thanks everyone!
I like the Paico off eBay for $35 shipped. It holds 1.2L and you are covered if you ever go to larger batches.
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Thanks guys! Seems very convenient to have the electric where you just set the temp and not worry about it. Thanks for the suggestions! I'll go this way, or save with the Paico. I gotta order today if I want the Bonavita. (I'm off to Australia tom. for 20th anniversary...sorry, just had to throw that out lol)
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... (I'm off to Australia tom. for 20th anniversary...sorry, just had to throw that out lol)
Congrats on the anniversary. We did Mexico City up bright red for our 20th.
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Thanks BoldJava! I can't believe we made it this long. Almost every other married couple friends we've had over the yrs are all divorced. I consider myself extremely lucky ;)
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Location? Update?
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Thanks guys! Seems very convenient to have the electric where you just set the temp and not worry about it. Thanks for the suggestions! I'll go this way, or save with the Paico. I gotta order today if I want the Bonavita. (I'm off to Australia tom. for 20th anniversary...sorry, just had to throw that out lol)
Hope you're drinking some great Australian red wines while you're there (like Torbreck).
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Thanks guys! Seems very convenient to have the electric where you just set the temp and not worry about it. Thanks for the suggestions! I'll go this way, or save with the Paico. I gotta order today if I want the Bonavita. (I'm off to Australia tom. for 20th anniversary...sorry, just had to throw that out lol)
Hope you're drinking some great Australian red wines while you're there (like Torbreck).
We spent a month in Australia in Oct 2010 and no matter where we shopped the Australian wines were more expensive in Australia than the exact same Australian wines we could buy in Canada. The only deals to be had were visiting the actual estates and buying a 3-pack.
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Thanks guys! Seems very convenient to have the electric where you just set the temp and not worry about it. Thanks for the suggestions! I'll go this way, or save with the Paico. I gotta order today if I want the Bonavita. (I'm off to Australia tom. for 20th anniversary...sorry, just had to throw that out lol)
Hope you're drinking some great Australian red wines while you're there (like Torbreck).
We spent a month in Australia in Oct 2010 and no matter where we shopped the Australian wines were more expensive in Australia than the exact same Australian wines we could buy in Canada. The only deals to be had were visiting the actual estates and buying a 3-pack.
Quick update, fantastic trip! Great wine, (which I totally agree with Staylor even in US btw which is strange.) Even had a small roaster there with three coffees to sample via 25sec pourover lol, of same bean but wet, dry and semi wet processed beans. This was assoc. with the food and wine show. Talked also about the trend there to use the cherry husk (I think that's the term for the leftover outer shell after processing) for roasting and drinking.
Now, back to the Tak ;)
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Where is the Tak and do we have a report?
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I heard from MMW earlier this week. He is putting in the mail to me. I am out of town, but my wife will let me know when it arrives. I'll be home this weekend, and if it shows up will give it a go. Back on the road next week (ah, what a life) so if I can use it over the weekend, I'll have my wife ship it on next week.
Jimbo
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I heard from MMW earlier this week. He is putting in the mail to me. I am out of town, but my wife will let me know when it arrives. I'll be home this weekend, and if it shows up will give it a go. Back on the road next week (ah, what a life) so if I can use it over the weekend, I'll have my wife ship it on next week.
Jimbo
Make sure you spend sufficient time with it.
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Happily, the kettle was sitting on my counter when Delta finally decided I could go home.
My initial thought as I pulled it out of the box was , hummm, that's a bit small. But then, I don't know what I expected since it is .9L. Clearly I'm not the brightest bean.
Used it this morning. Size is not an issue. I heated my water in my electric kettle as usual and transferred it to the pre-heated Takahiro.
This is the first time I have used a kettle like this, and was pleasantly surprised. I have been able to develop pretty good control using my electric kettle, but the Takahiro takes much less effort.
I think the only con for me is the price. Having used it I can see the value of having something like it, especially since I do pourover every day, but I think I will opt for one of the less expensive models initially.
Jimbo
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Kettle arrived yesterday, and I will comparisons Friday. Here are the contestants, ready to square off. All I could think when I opened the box was
OOOOOOOOOH ... SHINY!!!! ;D
My Hario V60 looks positively gray :o
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The Tak is one gorgeous pot.
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The Takahiro moves on to HeadChange4U tomorrow. I tested it against my Hario Buono, which I use for single cup brewing. I felt the kettles were VERY similar in performance.
My experience matched that of several others:
As I mentioned in the pour-over thread, the Takahiro seemed to be front loaded and balance with the spout down so you need to tip it up to control the pour. There were a couple of times when I picked up the kettle where I accidentally spilled some water, something to watch for.
I have a flow restrictor in the Hario (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=11402.0), and it gives a more vertical pour than the Tak. I never did get used to the balance of the Tak, but I could with more practice ... I've done hundreds of pours with the Hario Buono.
... have you found it easier to control with less water in it? That's been the case for me, I used to fill it up all the way to do my pourovers, but now I just put in a bit more water than I really need (200-300g).
+1 much easier to handle both kettles when they are NOT full.
Lately I am watching the clock less and following the pulse of the bloom crust more - bloom crust goes down, more water goes in in a rhythmic pulse. Once the grind is dialed in this method gets me a time similar to my more technical clocked pours.
+1 this sounds like exactly what I do.
I posted some videos on the pourover thread (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=7739.msg254654#msg254654). They show 10 ounce pourovers - the Hario Buono takes 1:50 verus 2:10 using the Takahiro.
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Flow restrictor didn't fit the tak?
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Flow restrictor didn't fit the tak?
Well, DUH!! I didn't even think to try it in the Tak :-[
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Flow restrictor in the Tak.... My mind hurts. :-[
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Flow restrictor didn't fit the tak?
Well, DUH!! I didn't even think to try it in the Tak :-[
I guess the whole idea of the tak is to eliminate the flow restrictor? That's why I didn't assume you tried it.. that, and assume makes an a.. oh, nevermind.
I ended up removing the flow restrictor from my hario because although I really liked the controlled pour, it prevents a faster pour if desired. I still have it, and when the tak finds its home with me, I'll try it out :)
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I guess the whole idea of the tak is to eliminate the flow restrictor?
I think that is the idea of all the pouring kettles. I only have direct experience with the Tak so I only really know how it performs.
In short the Tak provides a level of control that exceeds our human hands. I assume some other kettles also provide a higher level of control than we can use/need for preparing coffee. Some other kettles are not exactly at that level so mods might help them...
I can see no reason at all to mod any of the best kettles that offer smooth control all the way down to the droplet...
It's all in the wrist baby! ;)
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I can see no reason at all to mod any of the best kettles that offer smooth control all the way down to the droplet...
It's all in the wrist baby! ;)
+1. You can put a drop at a time any place with the Tak. I am not sure what purpose the flow restrictor would serve. Used one on the Hario I used to have (peddled it) but that is a horse of a different color.
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Well, after having the Tak for a few days I realized the value of having a kettle like this. So ... I am now the proud owner of a Hario kettle. Used it for the first time this morning. The amount of control over my electric kettle is unreal. I didn't know what I was missing until the Tak opened my eyes.
My blissful ignorance is once again shattered.
Jimbo
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I received the kettle yesterday, and promptly put it to use.
Pros: terrific pour control, very attractive, great size for 1 -2 cups,
Cons: handle isn't as ergonomic as my Bonavita, too small for 1L Chemex/pour over (and I typically make 1L at a time), my pinky would get very hot when resting at the bottom of the handle, it does get hot.
Cool little kettle, and I commented to my wife this morning that it would be a perfect kettle for a coffee shop that does multiple different manual brews, since it's only 1-2 cups big, so 2 x 12oz cups of coffee would be easily doable, and would be a very attractive piece on the shelf to invite customers to order.
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The kettle was waiting for me on my return from vacation. I have not had a chance to use it yet, but initially I was struck by the small size. I will post comparisons to my Bonavita variable temperature kettle this weekend.
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The kettle was waiting for me on my return from vacation. I have not had a chance to use it yet, but initially I was struck by the small size. I will post comparisons to my Bonavita variable temperature kettle this weekend.
Don't even bother..
Pack that tiny junker right back up and send it to me... I'll still give you $25 for that used clunker. Paypal on the ready..
I guess I could also pay the shipping.. so what...~$35 or so? 8)
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Jano, get ready. The kettle is a just fortnight away!
B|Java
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Jano, get ready. The kettle is a just fortnight away!
B|Java
Oops...I jumped the gun. ???
Probably gonna cost me $5.
So $40 to you Jano as soon as this unpleasant kettle becomes unwelcome in your kitchen just let me know. ;)
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This kettle is a beautiful thing, as nice to use as it is to look at. The control of the pour is better than any I have ever used. My problem is that I am spoiled by the electric kettle. The transferring of water is an unwanted extra step for me. If the pour over was favorite brewing method, I would probably be all over this. Perhaps somewhere down the line I will find that I can't live without it. I will use it a few more times and ship it on to
John F jano on Wednesday. Thanks to all who participated!
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Well, you could make the tak an electric kettle easy, just get a little plug-in induction plate, and it won't me much different than the two-piece bonavita ;D
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John F's Tak has arrived, I shall brea with it tomorrow. This thing is so tiny, matches up nice with the v60 01! The lip on the spout is surprisingly different from what you see in photos. Cool. 8)
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Thanks all for another 'road trip,' without one bump. You folk are fine fellows and lady.
B|Java
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Admittedly, the Tak is pretty neat, I had my doubts since I have teppan ninja show pourover skills with the buono already.
Would there be anything wrong with directly boiling water in the tak on my gas stove? Transferring boiled water from the buono is somewhat of a mundane chore, the stock pot is unweildy, and the sauce pot too small.
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Would there be anything wrong with directly boiling water in the tak on my gas stove...
No, boil away.
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I direct boil when I have time..transfer when in a hurry.
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Final wrap up: sorry John, I'm keeping the Tak :( I really like this thing: the spout's curve is perfect for the hario v60 01, and I can comfortably do a 3 minute pour if needed. Very solid, hefty feel, comfortable, though requires a side grip for me versus pistol grip on other kettles.
The issues:
-- handle gets hot if heated on the stove, such that I need to use a towel or glove
-- if I step out of the kitchen while it is heating on the stove and reaches boil before I come back, it burps more than 50% of the water out over the course of a couple minutes, on whatever range setting (low to high)
-- it is too shiny (I don't like shiny)
I believe I'd buy it over the hario or bonavita, two kettles I use on a regular basis. I'd really love to try that other ridiculously expensive one from Yama I think? The ugly one with wooden handle and super long spout.
That's all, thank you again for the opportunity to try and then to keep this awesome kettle :)
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You would be the one to like it. :P