Show Off your Espresso Machine

[YasBean]

Well, I don't know about Chad, but I started on the very superficial point of good looks.  Then, I liked the very large boilers, with 1.4 liters for both steam and coffee -- fast recovery.  The steam boiler uses a commercial Sirai pressurestat (good to reduce need to descale), and the coffee boiler is PIDed.  The innards are all high quality commercial stuff, well designed.  The icing is the three-way switch, with which you can turn on only the electronics and pump, or any or both boilers.  I turn the coffee boiler on early to start the grouphead warming, then turn on the steam boiler shortly before using (it reaches 1.5 bar in a few minutes).  After I'm, done, I will turn off the steam boiler if I will want espresso later, or turn off the coffee boiler if the wife will want hot water for tea, or I will just turn the whole off until next time.

I have heard from those with more experience in the E61 world than I that the "true" E61 is bigger than the others on the market, and is 2 lbs heavier.  I just know that this baby is pretty.  Also, check out the exhaust extension on the grouphead to avoid splatter when turning off the pump and evacuating the grouphead.

[Tex]

Well, I don't know about Chad, but I started on the very superficial point of good looks.  Then, I liked the very large boilers, with 1.4 liters for both steam and coffee -- fast recovery.  The steam boiler uses a commercial Sirai pressurestat (good to reduce need to descale), and the coffee boiler is PIDed.  The innards are all high quality commercial stuff, well designed.  The icing is the three-way switch, with which you can turn on only the electronics and pump, or any or both boilers.  I turn the coffee boiler on early to start the grouphead warming, then turn on the steam boiler shortly before using (it reaches 1.5 bar in a few minutes).  After I'm, done, I will turn off the steam boiler if I will want espresso later, or turn off the coffee boiler if the wife will want hot water for tea, or I will just turn the whole off until next time.

I have heard from those with more experience in the E61 world than I that the "true" E61 is bigger than the others on the market, and is 2 lbs heavier.  I just know that this baby is pretty.  Also, check out the exhaust extension on the grouphead to avoid splatter when turning off the pump and evacuating the grouphead.

I can't attest to the weight of a lever E61, but my Bunn ES-1A (Faema E61-type group) is 13# with everything removed. It's a heavy weight honker. The Spanish originated the under-the-group 3-way valve and they also originated the extensions that help direct the exhausted fluids into the drip tray.

I don't understand the need for the boilers to be the same size? The steam boiler can be a lot smaller than the brew boiler without sacrificing steam capacity. It's probably an inventory/manufacturing thing - where they can save money by having a one-size-fits-all boiler?

[milowebailey]

Tex

Interesting you say that.  I was at Synesso on Thursday and had a nice chat about their design. 

The steam boiler is the stage 1 boiler and for theirs it's at least twice the size of the group boiler.  They feed the water from the steam boiler @~195 deg. into the group boiler (or if a 2 group 2 boilers, or if three group three boilers) and then the group boiler only has to raise the temp 5 - 10 deg.  Which for changing the temp of the shot either up or down is quick and recovery is also quick because it's a small volume of water.   They also use separate group boilers so you can change the temp of each independently.

And yes their steam boilers run at a lower temp than the group boilers... all of them are PID controlled.

[Tex]

Tex

Interesting you say that.  I was at Synesso on Thursday and had a nice chat about their design. 

The steam boiler is the stage 1 boiler and for theirs it's at least twice the size of the group boiler.  They feed the water from the steam boiler @~195 deg. into the group boiler (or if a 2 group 2 boilers, or if three group three boilers) and then the group boiler only has to raise the temp 5 - 10 deg.  Which for changing the temp of the shot either up or down is quick and recovery is also quick because it's a small volume of water.   They also use separate group boilers so you can change the temp of each independently.

And yes their steam boilers run at a lower temp than the group boilers... all of them are PID controlled.

 

I've never seen a Synesso, so I can't/won't comment on their design, but the  next time you're there, see if they have one they can send me to play with, OK.

By it's definition a steam boiler would have to operate at 212°F or higher to generate steam.  I can't remember the numbers, but I seem to recall from some class or another that a given amount of water @212°F will expand to make x times the volume of steam - so the steam boiler doesn't need to be as large as the brew boiler - which needs to be very temp stable @196° - 203° to produce consistent quality shots.

Like I said - I don't know how this applies to Synesso's setup; but I'd be willing to bet that for the money they get for their machines they're doing something pretty fancy?

[sontondaman]

Hey Larry,
Do you mean that the water run through the steam boiler via a heat-exchanger? The steam boiler temperature would be way above 200F right?

[milowebailey]

I'm not exactly sure but don't remember seeing a heat exchanger.  But they clearly use the steam boiler to pre-heat the group boilers.  I don't know what temp the hot water is in the steam boiler.. on my brasilia the hot water spout is plumbed off the bottom of the boiler..  I think that's where they pull the pre-heated water, but don't know for sure if it's direct or HX.

[mp]

Well, I don't know about Chad, but I started on the very superficial point of good looks.  Then, I liked the very large boilers, with 1.4 liters for both steam and coffee -- fast recovery.  The steam boiler uses a commercial Sirai pressurestat (good to reduce need to descale), and the coffee boiler is PIDed.  The innards are all high quality commercial stuff, well designed.  The icing is the three-way switch, with which you can turn on only the electronics and pump, or any or both boilers.  I turn the coffee boiler on early to start the grouphead warming, then turn on the steam boiler shortly before using (it reaches 1.5 bar in a few minutes).  After I'm, done, I will turn off the steam boiler if I will want espresso later, or turn off the coffee boiler if the wife will want hot water for tea, or I will just turn the whole off until next time.

I have heard from those with more experience in the E61 world than I that the "true" E61 is bigger than the others on the market, and is 2 lbs heavier.  I just know that this baby is pretty.  Also, check out the exhaust extension on the grouphead to avoid splatter when turning off the pump and evacuating the grouphead.

YasBean ... thank you for your explanation.  Now I'm almost sorry I asked.  Like you I was impressed by the quality that goes into the Vibiemme double boiler.  

Oh well ... I don't have one ... for now!

 

[YasBean]

Oh well ... I don't have one ... for now!

 

That is just what I said not too long ago!

[nwmarco]

There sure is some nice equipment in this forum.

I did the PID installation myself on my Rancilio.

Cheers,
Marco in Seattle

[Tex]

Left to right: Saeco Titan, Rancilio MD50, Astoria/Mazzer Super Jolly, Bunn ES-1A HX

[dmankin]

Beautiful, Robert!

[Tex]

Beautiful, Robert!

Every year it seems I have to decide which goody to keep. This time it's between the MD50 & Super Jolly. I like the looks of the MD50 - square and business like, while Mrs T³ likes the SJ, says it looks more organic (whatever the heck that means?).

They both work well and the results of my previous testing indicates these are as near to identical as can be. In the MD50's favor, with the cut down bean hopper, which holds ~1.5 lbs, the grinder fits under the top cabinets. If I cut the SJ hopper down to fit under the cabinets, the hopper might hold 1/2 cup of beans!

[peter]

Beautiful, Robert!

Every year it seems I have to decide which goody to keep. This time it's between the MD50 & Super Jolly. I like the looks of the MD50 - square and business like, while Mrs T³ likes the SJ, says it looks more organic (whatever the heck that means?).

They both work well and the results of my previous testing indicates these are as near to identical as can be. In the MD50's favor, with the cut down bean hopper, which holds ~1.5 lbs, the grinder fits under the top cabinets. If I cut the SJ hopper down to fit under the cabinets, the hopper might hold 1/2 cup of beans!

Trade them both in on a Rocky.   

[Tex]

Beautiful, Robert!

Every year it seems I have to decide which goody to keep. This time it's between the MD50 & Super Jolly. I like the looks of the MD50 - square and business like, while Mrs T³ likes the SJ, says it looks more organic (whatever the heck that means?).

They both work well and the results of my previous testing indicates these are as near to identical as can be. In the MD50's favor, with the cut down bean hopper, which holds ~1.5 lbs, the grinder fits under the top cabinets. If I cut the SJ hopper down to fit under the cabinets, the hopper might hold 1/2 cup of beans!

Trade them both in on a Rocky.   

I don't think so, but I do have a line on a new bathing suit that's not as conservative as my current one.

[mp]

Beautiful, Robert!

Every year it seems I have to decide which goody to keep. This time it's between the MD50 & Super Jolly. I like the looks of the MD50 - square and business like, while Mrs T³ likes the SJ, says it looks more organic (whatever the heck that means?).

They both work well and the results of my previous testing indicates these are as near to identical as can be. In the MD50's favor, with the cut down bean hopper, which holds ~1.5 lbs, the grinder fits under the top cabinets. If I cut the SJ hopper down to fit under the cabinets, the hopper might hold 1/2 cup of beans!

Trade them both in on a Rocky.   

I don't think so, but I do have a line on a new bathing suit that's not as conservative as my current one.

I didn't realize they had a nudist colony near you.