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So I was following a rabbit trail from BoldJava and happened upon a home roasting forum where they were talking about a new widget (fancy name for a microcontroller) called a arduino. I had never hear of this widget so I started doing some research. It's pretty much an I/O controller that has 16 digital and 8 analog I/O's for about $30.... simple to program and open source code...
About 5 years ago I had an alpenrost which I build a new control board so I could change the roast profile. It worked ok, but I had to burn a new EPROM (memory chip) whenever I wanted to change the profile. My re-design was better than the original but still too much work. I always wanted something I could hook my laptop to and reprogram... the arduino is such a widget.
So this arduino is like a PID, but way more generic and linux-like in the open source coding. In fact they have PID code written for it.
So I ordered one this week. My new quest is to design a new controller for the twins.... what twins you say... well. My old sonofresco and the new one sir TEX just scored me in Houston :wav:... that's why I wanted the additional sonofresco... one to roast on and one to redesign...
since I've owned the sonofresco that's the only part I've never liked.... the limited selection of roast profiles...
the new widget (arduino) has a USB interface so I plan to develop a software interface so you can program any profile into the sonofresco... imagine a fully programmable sample roaster...
Wish me luck... offer some advise.... name the twins (Jeckle and hyde are taken).
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Hey Milo ... that sounds great!
Well ... if you can do it for the Sonofresco why could you not port it to any other roaster out there on the market? You can start work on the Sonofresco and adapt this technology to all home roasters out there. You could offer mod kits with instructions or offer to do the work on the other roasters (for a fee of course). Imagine the power of a professional roaster in a home model.
You go Milo!!!
:wav:
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Imagine the power of a professional roaster in a home model.
exactly... get your I-roast for $179.... and the controller for an additional $250....
So I'm an engineer not a marketing guy... but for the mid end folks.... $250 might not be a bad deal for an add-on to say a hottop, sonofresco, or say a IR-3...
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Wish me luck... offer some advise.... name the twins (Jeckle and hyde are taken).
You've heard of Son of Frankenstein. Now we have Son of Fresco. <groan>
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well.. how much more would it be $30 for widget plus ? I have laptop, relay that I use with my PID and thermal couples.... to replace the PID in the electronic chain??
My problem with the PID is I have yet to get it to not blast past a set temp on manual profiling and when I program it to run a set of ramp holds it starts changing the target temp on its own???
my goal is to have plug and play PID or milowwidget set up that I can plug a hot air popper or turbo oven or ? into and light it up, the principle is the same just turning a different heater off and on at the same temp..
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Larry, I'm with you on this! I love my Sonofresco but the limited tweakability of the roast profiles puts me off a very tiny bit about the machine. If you can develop something that will make the Sonofresco as responsive to user control as the Hottop, for example, then that would be really cool!
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exactly... get your I-roast for $179.... and the controller for an additional $250....
So I'm an engineer not a marketing guy... but for the mid end folks.... $250 might not be a bad deal for an add-on to say a hottop, sonofresco, or say a IR-3...
Hmmm ... I was thinking smaller capacity like the FreshRoast 8 Plus ... $100 roaster with $200 controller to have more and better profiling than the Hottop! Maybe instruction kit for installation to air poppers. The possibilities are endless!
;D
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Both of you's guys..... we all know what we want... and JJ you are absolutely correct... there are 2 or 3 variables...
1) heat control
2) heat sensing (this is the critical part... I think)
3) some sort of blower... maybe (sonofresco has one... alpenrost had one)
I like the milowidget because it has the USB interface... that was the part with my alpenrost that I couldn't do easily... and I haven't really done a lot of circuit design in about ....... 18 years (when I was in grade school) ;D
but I think the software side will be fun to tinker with....
JJ.... I'm thinkin... under $50 in parts for you....the software should be the same....
Dante... the widget can either be programmed or controlled via a USB, so an infinite # of profiles are possible.
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exactly... get your I-roast for $179.... and the controller for an additional $250....
So I'm an engineer not a marketing guy... but for the mid end folks.... $250 might not be a bad deal for an add-on to say a hottop, sonofresco, or say a IR-3...
Hmmm ... I was thinking smaller capacity like the FreshRoast 8 Plus ... $100 roaster with $200 controller to have more and better profiling than the Hottop! Maybe instruction kit for installation to air poppers. The possibilities are endless!
;D
Imagine a digital air popper for under $100 including the popper :headbang:
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exactly... get your I-roast for $179.... and the controller for an additional $250....
So I'm an engineer not a marketing guy... but for the mid end folks.... $250 might not be a bad deal for an add-on to say a hottop, sonofresco, or say a IR-3...
Hmmm ... I was thinking smaller capacity like the FreshRoast 8 Plus ... $100 roaster with $200 controller to have more and better profiling than the Hottop! Maybe instruction kit for installation to air poppers. The possibilities are endless!
;D
Imagine a digital air popper for under $100 including the popper :headbang:
Yes ... that would be the bomb!
:icon_thumleft:
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exactly... get your I-roast for $179.... and the controller for an additional $250....
So I'm an engineer not a marketing guy... but for the mid end folks.... $250 might not be a bad deal for an add-on to say a hottop, sonofresco, or say a IR-3...
Hmmm ... I was thinking smaller capacity like the FreshRoast 8 Plus ... $100 roaster with $200 controller to have more and better profiling than the Hottop! Maybe instruction kit for installation to air poppers. The possibilities are endless!
;D
Imagine a digital air popper for under $100 including the popper :headbang:
Yes ... that would be the bomb!
:icon_thumleft:
The cool part is you wouldn't even need a computer to program it if you got one pre-programmed.... it would definitely have some limitations that way but still as good as the current sonofresco...
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The cool part is you wouldn't even need a computer to program it if you got one pre-programmed.... it would definitely have some limitations that way but still as good as the current sonofresco...
For a kit that would probably be the way to go. The simpler for the end user the better.
:)
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I think GCBC member ira (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2912) could be helpful in this dream BehmorThing program (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=2757.msg73917#msg73917)
thinking of database of roasts and after a while you have stock starting point roast profiles (SSPRP) for each coffee region or even crop you pull up the notes from last years Harrar and up load the data to the milowidget pour in some beans and just push play...
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If the program developed to control the widget could use/store profile data in XML format, we could even develop a web service which could allow people to share their favorite roast profiles by posting them to a web site.
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1) heat control
2) heat sensing (this is the critical part... I think)
3) some sort of blower... maybe (sonofresco has one... alpenrost had one)
I assume the Arduino has some way to talk SPI, a Maxim MAX6675 would be an easy way to get temperature input. It's likely not the best but it repeats well which is really what you need. It's $7 or so which is absurd, but it solves the problem with 1 chip.
Ira
Ira
I'm going to use an AD595 ($11) and thermocouple ($10) to get the temp. There is a fair amount of code written for the AD595 for the Arduino so it should be easy to breadboard and test. I'm hoping to start reading temp next week on my current Sonofresco and start seeing how they really programmed the ramp... once I get an idea of how they control the heat now... then it's just developing a few heat control subroutines, a little re-wire and I should have it...
BTW I'm using som solid state relays ($4 ea) for the blower and the heater.... simple... one could always add another relay for the drum motor if the roaster has one...
I will keep folks updated on the progress.
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Where do you get $4 SSRs?
Ira
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Ira
I'm going to use an AD595 ($11) and thermocouple ($10) to get the temp. There is a fair amount of code written for the AD595 for the Arduino so it should be easy to breadboard and test. I'm hoping to start reading temp next week on my current Sonofresco and start seeing how they really programmed the ramp... once I get an idea of how they control the heat now... then it's just developing a few heat control subroutines, a little re-wire and I should have it...
BTW I'm using som solid state relays ($4 ea) for the blower and the heater.... simple... one could always add another relay for the drum motor if the roaster has one...
I will keep folks updated on the progress.
Hey Milo .... I'm trying to follow along with you ... if you don't mind me inquiring ... where is the code you are using for the AD595?
Thanks
:)
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Where do you get $4 SSRs?
Ira
They are 2 amp contacts... 5 volt control - Digikey - Z912-ND
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Ira
I'm going to use an AD595 ($11) and thermocouple ($10) to get the temp. There is a fair amount of code written for the AD595 for the Arduino so it should be easy to breadboard and test. I'm hoping to start reading temp next week on my current Sonofresco and start seeing how they really programmed the ramp... once I get an idea of how they control the heat now... then it's just developing a few heat control subroutines, a little re-wire and I should have it...
BTW I'm using som solid state relays ($4 ea) for the blower and the heater.... simple... one could always add another relay for the drum motor if the roaster has one...
I will keep folks updated on the progress.
Hey Milo .... I'm trying to follow along with you ... if you don't mind me inquiring ... where is the code you are using for the AD595?
Thanks
:)
MP
I'm not far enough along to start coding yet.... but here is the code to read the temp using the AD595 and thermocouple.
// Define which analog input pin we have connected to the temperature sensor
#define TEMP_SENSOR_PIN 0
// if you tie the Arduino's vRef to the 3.3 volt supply, change this to 3.3
#define ANALOG_VOTLAGE_REFERENCE 5
void setup() {
Serial.begin(115200);
}
void loop() {
// prints the currrent temperature with 1 place after the decimal point
printFloat(getTemperature(), 1);
// print a carriage return
Serial.println();
// rest 100 milliseconds
delay(100);
}
float CtoF(float c) {
// optionally convert from Celsius to Farenheit if you are into that sorta thing
return c * 9.0 / 5.0 + 32.0;
}
float analogInToDegreesC(int inputValue) {
// divide by 1023, the maximum possible input value, that scales the input between 0 - 1
// then multiply by the reference voltage, which scales 0-1 to 0-vREF (default is 5V)
// lastly, multiply by 100 to scale it to 10s of millivolts or degrees
return inputValue / 1023.0 * ANALOG_VOTLAGE_REFERENCE * 100.0;
}
float getTemperature() {
// read the analog input, convert to degrees C, and covert to F
return CtoF(analogInToDegreesC(analogRead(TEMP_SENSOR_PIN)));
}
// ---- This last function, printFloat isn't necessary to understand unless you want to
// ---- feel free to ignore it for now, and treat it as a built-in utility,
// ---- it prints out floating point point values
// printFloat prints out the float 'value' rounded to 'places' places after the decimal point
void printFloat(float value, int places) {
// this is used to cast digits
int digit;
float tens = 0.1;
int tenscount = 0;
int i;
float tempfloat = value;
// make sure we round properly. this could use pow from <math.h>, but doesn't seem worth the import
// if this rounding step isn't here, the value 54.321 prints as 54.3209
// calculate rounding term d: 0.5/pow(10,places)
float d = 0.5;
if (value < 0)
d *= -1.0;
// divide by ten for each decimal place
for (i = 0; i < places; i++)
d/= 10.0;
// this small addition, combined with truncation will round our values properly
tempfloat += d;
// first get value tens to be the large power of ten less than value
// tenscount isn't necessary but it would be useful if you wanted to know after this how many chars the number will take
if (value < 0)
tempfloat *= -1.0;
while ((tens * 10.0) <= tempfloat) {
tens *= 10.0;
tenscount += 1;
}
// write out the negative if needed
if (value < 0)
Serial.print('-');
if (tenscount == 0)
Serial.print(0, DEC);
for (i=0; i< tenscount; i++) {
digit = (int) (tempfloat/tens);
Serial.print(digit, DEC);
tempfloat = tempfloat - ((float)digit * tens);
tens /= 10.0;
}
// if no places after decimal, stop now and return
if (places <= 0)
return;
// otherwise, write the point and continue on
Serial.print('.');
// now write out each decimal place by shifting digits one by one into the ones place and writing the truncated value
for (i = 0; i < places; i++) {
tempfloat *= 10.0;
digit = (int) tempfloat;
Serial.print(digit,DEC);
// once written, subtract off that digit
tempfloat = tempfloat - (float) digit;
}
}
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Hang on a sec, what was that part again where you mentioned something about // Define... ? I sort of got lost right around there.
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Don't you think Java would be a much more appropriate language around here?
(Programming jokes really are the dumbest)
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't
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Don't you think Java would be a much more appropriate language around here?
(Programming jokes really are the dumbest)
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't
I "C" your point... maybe Java would be better.....
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There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't
As much as I don't know anything about programming, that made me laugh out loud.
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Don't you think Java would be a much more appropriate language around here?
(Programming jokes really are the dumbest)
There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't
I "C" your point... mayby Java would be better.....
Though without "C" a lot of us would be programing in ASIC and OBOL ::)
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Ok, back to topic...
Joe, Dante, and any other Sonofresco users
If you could change the Sonofresco roasting controller what would you change? I have my ideas, but I'm curious of your ideas.
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Though without "C" a lot of us would be programing in ASIC and OBOL ::)
ASIC?
There must be some reverse_ninja_entendre_metaphorical_programmer_thing going on here?
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Nah, just me screwing up the punchline. I could never tell a joke and I shouldn't even try sometimes.
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Nah, just me screwing up the punchline. I could never tell a joke and I shouldn't even try sometimes.
LOL
I think you meant.." Basi or obal"
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I'm going to use an AD595 ($11) and thermocouple ($10) to get the temp.
Hey Milo ... I am curious ... have you considered the AD494CQ ... it has +- 1 degree accuracy vs the AD595AQ has +- 3 degree?
"The trick with these thermocouples is that you need a thermocouple amplifier to translate their output into a voltage that is linearly correlated to temperature. This makes it very easy to interface to the Arduino. Enter the AD595. The AD595AQ has a +-3 degree accuracy and is available at Sparkfun ($17.95). The AD494CQ has +- 1 degree accuracy and is available from Digikey. Digikey also has both versions in ROHS (lead free package) versions for 10 - 20 bucks more each if you would like. These are 14 pin DIP (will fit in a breadboard) packages. Even though they are 14 pins, you can breadboard one without a lot of effort."
Full Reference Link (http://www.instructables.com/id/S3R6VVPFMEGHFD7/)
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I'm going to use an AD595 ($11) and thermocouple ($10) to get the temp.
Hey Milo ... I am curious ... have you considered the AD494CQ ... it has +- 1 degree accuracy vs the AD595AQ has +- 3 degree?
"The trick with these thermocouples is that you need a thermocouple amplifier to translate their output into a voltage that is linearly correlated to temperature. This makes it very easy to interface to the Arduino. Enter the AD595. The AD595AQ has a +-3 degree accuracy and is available at Sparkfun ($17.95). The AD494CQ has +- 1 degree accuracy and is available from Digikey. Digikey also has both versions in ROHS (lead free package) versions for 10 - 20 bucks more each if you would like. These are 14 pin DIP (will fit in a breadboard) packages. Even though they are 14 pins, you can breadboard one without a lot of effort."
Full Reference Link ([url]http://www.instructables.com/id/S3R6VVPFMEGHFD7/[/url])
Good point... I should have looked at the datasheet closer.... I ordered the AD595AQ's... I can always change to the AD595CQ's later... same pinout.
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Hey Milo ... I am curious ... have you considered the AD494CQ ... it has +- 1 degree accuracy vs the AD595AQ has +- 3 degree?
/quote]
Good point... I should have looked at the datasheet closer.... I ordered the AD595AQ's... I can always change to the AD595CQ's later... same pinout.
I wonder if the AD494CQ is code compatible with the AD595AQ?
:)
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Hey Milo ... I am curious ... have you considered the AD494CQ ... it has +- 1 degree accuracy vs the AD595AQ has +- 3 degree?
/quote]
Good point... I should have looked at the datasheet closer.... I ordered the AD595AQ's... I can always change to the AD595CQ's later... same pinout.
I wonder if the AD494CQ is code compatible with the AD595AQ?
:)
Are you sure about that part #.... there is a AD594CQ... a AD594AQ, a AD595CQ and a AD595AQ... the AQ's are +/-3%... the CQ's are +/- 1%
The 594's are for J type thermocouples the 595 are for K type.
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Hey Milo ... I am just going by what this article says:
"The trick with these thermocouples is that you need a thermocouple amplifier to translate their output into a voltage that is linearly correlated to temperature. This makes it very easy to interface to the Arduino. Enter the AD595. The AD595AQ has a +-3 degree accuracy and is available at Sparkfun ($17.95). The AD494CQ has +- 1 degree accuracy and is available from Digikey. Digikey also has both versions in ROHS (lead free package) versions for 10 - 20 bucks more each if you would like. These are 14 pin DIP (will fit in a breadboard) packages. Even though they are 14 pins, you can breadboard one without a lot of effort."
Check out the Instructables (http://www.instructables.com/id/S3R6VVPFMEGHFD7/) web site.
Hope that helps.
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Hey Milo ... I am just going by what this article says:
"The trick with these thermocouples is that you need a thermocouple amplifier to translate their output into a voltage that is linearly correlated to temperature. This makes it very easy to interface to the Arduino. Enter the AD595. The AD595AQ has a +-3 degree accuracy and is available at Sparkfun ($17.95). The AD494CQ has +- 1 degree accuracy and is available from Digikey. Digikey also has both versions in ROHS (lead free package) versions for 10 - 20 bucks more each if you would like. These are 14 pin DIP (will fit in a breadboard) packages. Even though they are 14 pins, you can breadboard one without a lot of effort."
Check out the Instructables ([url]http://www.instructables.com/id/S3R6VVPFMEGHFD7/[/url]) web site.
Hope that helps.
I think that's a typo... or an obsolete part...
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Thanks for this...I don't think I'm going to reconfigure my hottop for control with one of these (though the possibilities abound) but can you say multi-input USB temperature logger for ~$60?
The inner-tinkerer (? is that even a word) is itching to get out.
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Thanks for this...I don't think I'm going to reconfigure my hottop for control with one of these (though the possibilities abound) but can you say multi-input USB temperature logger for ~$60?
The inner-tinkerer (? is that even a word) is itching to get out.
$60 would be for controller and the first thermocouple.... each additional is about $25 more... those little buggers are not cheap.
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Yeah...from my (modest) perusal of digikey it looks like the dang amps cost as much as the thermocouples. Still pretty dang cheap, though. Still, it's an interesting project and I'll be following along. Please keep us updated!
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I think that's a typo... or an obsolete part...
That may very well be.
:)
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I got the Arduno today... installed the drivers and in 5 minutes had a little program running on it... They said it was easy.... I never thunk it would really be easy.
This is gonna be a blast. I also ordered an LCD display so I can display bean temp... and who knows what else.
I'm very interested in what folks think the variables in the profile should be....
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I'm very interested in what folks think the variables in the profile should be....
I don't have a sonafresca that I can tinker with but my current goal is to be able to plug in a number of different electric heat sources (one at a time) for a number of roasters and roasting experiments, I see the potential for fan speed control but most of my current configurations would not use the fan speed and I believe with the sonafresca you would not want to mess with fan speed...
My frustration is not getting ramp hold to work on the PID and my online research has left me to believe the PID is pretty limited for coffee roasting and that something like your milowwidget would give us more repeatability roasting platform to roasting platform, bean origin to bean origin ....
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I got the Arduno today... installed the drivers and in 5 minutes had a little program running on it... They said it was easy.... I never thunk it would really be easy.
This is gonna be a blast. I also ordered an LCD display so I can display bean temp... and who knows what else.
I'm very interested in what folks think the variables in the profile should be....
Hey Milo ... great to hear you got the Arduino. Since it was so easy to do that much in so little time then you should be able to complete this project in 2 or 3 working days. ;D
Yeah ... the LCD sounds like a great visual aid to what is going on.
Wouldn't it be cool if the Arduino could sense when the first crack of the roast comes to an end? You could work on a super cool automated green coffee profile that automatically adjusts the temperature depending on the type of roast you want to achieve. Maybe even if it had the smarts to detect the beginning of the 1st crack for getting a light roast. If it could detect the end of the first crack you would get a slightly darker light roast. Likewise you could detect the beginning of the second crack which would mean you beans would be darker again or the end of the second crack which would put your beans to a fairly dark roast. It might be called the universal bean profile ... or in this case the MiloVersal profile. Just thinking out loud here.
The LCD would be great to provide the total roast time, the current temperature, the stage length. If you can turn off the heat and only leave the fan on perhaps a message saying "cooling" would come on.
There are just so many possibilities.
;)
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Wouldn't it be cool if the Arduino could sense when the first crack of the roast comes to an end? You could work on a super cool automated green coffee profile that automatically adjusts the temperature depending on the type of roast you want to achieve. Maybe even if it had the smarts to detect the beginning of the 1st crack for getting a light roast. If it could detect the end of the first crack you would get a slightly darker light roast. Likewise you could detect the beginning of the second crack which would mean you beans would be darker again or the end of the second crack which would put your beans to a fairly dark roast. It might be called the universal bean profile ... or in this case the MiloVersal profile. Just thinking out loud here.
that would be cool...
...and at the end of second crack it could automatically release the halon to put out the fire
(http://www.atypicaljoe.com/images/smileys/fireman.gif)
~~off to search for tiny heat resistant microphones~~
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Hey Milo ... great to hear you got the Arduino. Since it was so easy to do that much in so little time then you should be able to complete this project in 2 or 3 working days. ;D
You sound like my boss now. ;D
Wouldn't it be cool if the Arduino could sense when the first crack of the roast comes to an end? You could work on a super cool automated green coffee profile that automatically adjusts the temperature depending on the type of roast you want to achieve. Maybe even if it had the smarts to detect the beginning of the 1st crack for getting a light roast. If it could detect the end of the first crack you would get a slightly darker light roast. Likewise you could detect the beginning of the second crack which would mean you beans would be darker again or the end of the second crack which would put your beans to a fairly dark roast. It might be called the universal bean profile ... or in this case the MiloVersal profile. Just thinking out loud here.
I've thought about this... if there was a way to capture the sound with a microphone... I think you could characterize the sound 1st crack makes... 2nd would be a little more difficult, but not impossible.
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I've thought about this... if there was a way to capture the sound with a microphone... I think you could characterize the sound 1st crack makes... 2nd would be a little more difficult, but not impossible.
I dunno, it might not be that difficult at all. The roaster is going to have a characteristic (moving air, rotating drum, etc.) that should be pretty easy to profile. If the PC can keep up, a little blind LMS magic might even be in order. Now all you are looking for are the cracks...should be pretty broad frequency, short time events. A short time Fourier Transform or wavelet transform should be able to keep up in real time and visualize the snaps (they'd show up as thin lines across frequency in the display) and you'd need that for the detection anyway. From there, the math to detect the cracks are pretty straightforward and I'd wager that a good bit of the code can be found open source/public domain that could be adapted to this particular job.
I think a more interesting application might be an uber-PID that could follow a set roast profile while controlling airflow and temp. I have a burning desire to have a roast profile that is piecewise linear when plotted as bean temp vs. log time-- one slope for drying, another for ramp to FC, and another for ramp to SC. (Don't ask why, you stick a EE in the oil field and you get crazy stuff like this).
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Hey Milo ... great to hear you got the Arduino. Since it was so easy to do that much in so little time then you should be able to complete this project in 2 or 3 working days. ;D
You sound like my boss now. ;D
I have a hard time believing Mrs. Milo would do you like that. ;D
I've thought about this... if there was a way to capture the sound with a microphone... I think you could characterize the sound 1st crack makes... 2nd would be a little more difficult, but not impossible.
I thought that's why God gave us ears, to hear coffee cracking...
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I thought that's why God gave us ears, to hear coffee cracking...
Yes ... of course Peter ... but we are talking about automating process here.
;D
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Ha, welcome to the automation rabbit hole mb! ;D As you're starting to discover, interfacing the monitor/control stuff is the easy part - the more challenging part (for me anyway) seems to be figuring out how best to leverage that capability and translate it into predictable, repeatable and - most importantly - *good* roast product (not that I really know what that is but I'm getting pretty good at identifying *not so good* roast product ;D ).
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(........ I'm getting pretty good at identifying *not so good* roast product ;D ).
There are quit a few seasoned experts on that subject wondering these threads.... ;)
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Hey Milo ... seeing as Tex has decided to keep the roaster for himself is this project still a go?
:-\
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Hey Milo ... seeing as Tex has decided to keep the roaster for himself is this project still a go?
:-\
Of course... but my 2- 3 days will be longer since I have to figure out how to switch between sonofresco and milofresco.. ;D. I still need a working roaster to roast the Brazil #11 COE on :icon_thumleft:. I'm sure I'll figure that out.
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Hey Milo ... seeing as Tex has decided to keep the roaster for himself is this project still a go?
:-\
Of course... but my 2- 3 days will be longer since I have to figure out how to switch between sonofresco and milofresco.. ;D. I still need a working roaster to roast the Brazil #11 COE on :icon_thumleft:. I'm sure I'll figure that out.
Is the sonofresco's standard profile documented somewhere? If so and assuming you have PID control working, you could dial it in and continue to use the standard profile while you work out additional profiles.
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Of course... but my 2- 3 days will be longer since I have to figure out how to switch between sonofresco and milofresco.. ;D. I still need a working roaster to roast the Brazil #11 COE on :icon_thumleft:. I'm sure I'll figure that out.
Good ... that is a relief ... you've got me hooked on this one.
:icon_thumleft:
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The milofresco controller (aka Roaster Control Widget) is coming along nicely.
I spent about 45 minutes breadboarding and connecting the temperature sensor to the Arduino and wala I have Time and Temperature streaming over the serial port (USB actually) and displaying on my laptop. Also able to control a relay.... now to work on the profile methodology.
Any ideas??
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Is the heat an on or off thing for a Sonofresco? Or is it variable?
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It's on - off,,,, but I may add a gas flow valve if I can't get a smooth enough curve with on and off. I suspect the flame should stay on for some minimum length of time. Seems the current profile in it is about 15 second on 6 off. I plan on 1st using the widget to log the factory profile as a starting point
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... I may add a gas flow valve ...
And there went your budget!
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The milofresco controller (aka Roaster Control Widget) is coming along nicely.
I spent about 45 minutes breadboarding and connecting the temperature sensor to the Arduino and wala I have Time and Temperature streaming over the serial port (USB actually) and displaying on my laptop. Also able to control a relay.... now to work on the profile methodology.
Any ideas??
Good to hear Milo .... you go boy!
;D
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.... now to work on the profile methodology.
Any ideas??
I'm not clear on the intended form factor of the milowewidget - are you planning on building a box that you can attach to a pc and drive it from there or are you thinking about a self-contained unit with a simple led display? The answer to that question, I think, sends you down different paths. The pc route gives you a lot of flexibility/capability at the cost of a little more complexity... and this will be important if you want to do things like integrated roast logging, easy profile tracking/manipulation, bean inventory tracking, temp/rate of change visualization, etc.
Seems the current profile in it is about 15 second on 6 off.
Any idea what power level that corresponds to?
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I'm not clear on the intended form factor of the milowewidget - are you planning on building a box that you can attach to a pc and drive it from there or are you thinking about a self-contained unit with a simple led display? The answer to that question, I think, sends you down different paths. The pc route gives you a lot of flexibility/capability at the cost of a little more complexity... and this will be important if you want to do things like integrated roast logging, easy profile tracking/manipulation, bean inventory tracking, temp/rate of change visualization, etc.
Yes... both... I'm probably going to do the roast logging pc first so I can visually see what's going on with the PID... then once I get that figured out, then I will probably build a self-contained unit with (hopefully) some flexibility but standard curves...
Any idea what power level that corresponds to?
It's propane 31,000 BTU/hr..... x 71% (15/21 duty cycle) = 22,142 BTU / hour = 6489 watts but that doesn't include the heat loss from the huge amount of air blowing..
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Yes... both... I'm probably going to do the roast logging pc first so I can visually see what's going on with the PID... then once I get that figured out, then I will probably build a self-contained unit with (hopefully) some flexibility but standard curves...
That's a good plan. I'm sure you've already given this some thought but here's my take on monitoring/control and how it relates to the profile methodology problem...
Monitoring is central to just about everything else, so it's probably a good idea to get the thermometry interface up and running before anything else. I don't know what your dev environment is but if you can use C# (mono on linux), there's an open source grapher called ZedGraph that's great for time-temp plotting duties. I don't use Java much these days so I can't give a specific recommendation for a grapher on that side but I know there's a wide selection. Whatever you use, you'll find that a real-time (or near real-time anyway) time-temp plot on screen is invaluable for troubleshooting and visualization. Also, collecting temp samples on a background thread that's independent of the UI is a good idea - it's better to have the UI's representaton of the data lag reality a bit than have artificial delays in the data stream caused by UI latency.
Control: once you have monitoring up and running, a good next step is to add manual control capability to the UI that displays your time-temp plot (the control panel, so to speak). I would start off simple and not worry about PID initially. Think in terms of power level - you could have a slider control in your UI that goes from 0% to 100% and has ticks every 10%, for instance. You already know that the sono control logic uses a 21 second duty cycle so it should be pretty easy to map proportional time to power level - a background thread could periodically wake up and cycle power on-off as appropriate according to the time mapping vs. current power setting. Of course, you could skip the manual control step altogether and go right to PID control but be prepared to spend LOTS of time getting the PID response dialed in. Personally, I prefer to hold off on that sort of fine detail work until the rest of the system is stable - but that's just me.
The nice thing here is that once you've written the code to support monitoring and translating control panel input requests into burner control commands, you basically have 90% of what you need to support automated profile control. The only thing left to do is define "profile" in the context of the automated system. The intuitive approach is to define profile as a series of control segments. There are a handful of commercial examples to draw from here, including the Ambex software and the Hottop P. Each control segment typically represents a time- and/or temperature-constrained instruction for the control system. An inherent weakness of the typical automated profile, of course, is that the segments are fixed and don't accomodate variations or overrides very well. This is mitigated somewhat if you can make simplifying assumptions about the roast environment - for example, the sono stock profile is based on a fixed load size. A more sophisticated, general purpose approach might incorporate rate-of-change instructions and event-based segment transitions (rather than time or temp) to address some of those limitations but, of course, this increases complexity.
Ok, enough rambling... hopefully there's food for thought in there somewhere. :)
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Ok, enough rambling... hopefully there's food for thought in there somewhere. :)
Yeah ... that was exactly what I was going to tell Milo.
:D
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Yes... both... I'm probably going to do the roast logging pc first so I can visually see what's going on with the PID... then once I get that figured out, then I will probably build a self-contained unit with (hopefully) some flexibility but standard curves...
That's a good plan. I'm sure you've already given this some thought but here's my take on monitoring/control and how it relates to the profile methodology problem...
Monitoring is central to just about everything else, so it's probably a good idea to get the thermometry interface up and running before anything else. I don't know what your dev environment is but if you can use C# (mono on linux), there's an open source grapher called ZedGraph that's great for time-temp plotting duties. I don't use Java much these days so I can't give a specific recommendation for a grapher on that side but I know there's a wide selection. Whatever you use, you'll find that a real-time (or near real-time anyway) time-temp plot on screen is invaluable for troubleshooting and visualization. Also, collecting temp samples on a background thread that's independent of the UI is a good idea - it's better to have the UI's representaton of the data lag reality a bit than have artificial delays in the data stream caused by UI latency.
Control: once you have monitoring up and running, a good next step is to add manual control capability to the UI that displays your time-temp plot (the control panel, so to speak). I would start off simple and not worry about PID initially. Think in terms of power level - you could have a slider control in your UI that goes from 0% to 100% and has ticks every 10%, for instance. You already know that the sono control logic uses a 21 second duty cycle so it should be pretty easy to map proportional time to power level - a background thread could periodically wake up and cycle power on-off as appropriate according to the time mapping vs. current power setting. Of course, you could skip the manual control step altogether and go right to PID control but be prepared to spend LOTS of time getting the PID response dialed in. Personally, I prefer to hold off on that sort of fine detail work until the rest of the system is stable - but that's just me.
The nice thing here is that once you've written the code to support monitoring and translating control panel input requests into burner control commands, you basically have 90% of what you need to support automated profile control. The only thing left to do is define "profile" in the context of the automated system. The intuitive approach is to define profile as a series of control segments. There are a handful of commercial examples to draw from here, including the Ambex software and the Hottop P. Each control segment typically represents a time- and/or temperature-constrained instruction for the control system. An inherent weakness of the typical automated profile, of course, is that the segments are fixed and don't accomodate variations or overrides very well. This is mitigated somewhat if you can make simplifying assumptions about the roast environment - for example, the sono stock profile is based on a fixed load size. A more sophisticated, general purpose approach might incorporate rate-of-change instructions and event-based segment transitions (rather than time or temp) to address some of those limitations but, of course, this increases complexity.
Ok, enough rambling... hopefully there's food for thought in there somewhere. :)
John....wow thanks...... lots in this to chew on... I agree that monitor and control is key... I'm a C programmer (old guy) but there is a lot of code out there that I can steal borrow. I'll look into the Zedgraph... the control will be simple..... heat on... heat off. The sono is simple that way. I plan to measure bean temp and exhaust temp (sono currently only measure exhaust). From there figure out a control scheme... Segments would be pretty easy to code, but the interface seems ugly....
my thinking is to somehow implement an sigmoid curve where each half of the curve's slope can be adjusted independently... shouldn't be too difficult to code...and if the slope and time is all that would change the user interface should be simpler than segments. The PID, will certainly be last... once I define the curve.....it should be easy to code.... as I've found it already. Then refine the P. I. and D values.... although I may make those variable to the user too.
So much fun, so little time...
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I'm a C programmer (old guy)
Damn, I just got hit by shrapnel! I started life as a C guy (I still have my original copy of K&R) and learned C++ during the "standards war" years of the early 90's (anyone remember how kickass Borland C++ was before 4.0?). :P But I digress...
I like the sound of the sigmoid curve approach - it would certainly solve the segment usability issue. Keep us posted!
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(anyone remember how kickass Borland C++ was before 4.0?). :P
I was a Borland guy all the way... probably still have some pre 4.0 disks around.
sorry for the shrapnel!
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Just an update on the milowidget... after a battle with C#.... just enough different for it to be a pain from C++.... anyway, I made some progress. I can now monitor and log in real-time bean temperature....now to see how sonofresco profiles really are. I may have to kill a few beans in the process but I think I have a few pooches in my stash.
Here is a screenshot of the temp display.
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Looking good Milo ... is that temperature in Fahrenheit or Celsius?
Even if it was Celsius ... isn't it kind of low to roast beans?
???
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Looking good Milo ... is that temperature in Fahrenheit or Celsius?
Even if it was Celsius ... isn't it kind of low to roast beans?
???
Fahrenheit.... room temperature and temperature of my hand... holding the thermocouple. I plan to measure one roast on the sonofresco tonight. I'll post a screenshot of the profile.
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Fahrenheit.... room temperature and temperature of my hand... holding the thermocouple. I plan to measure one roast on the sonofresco tonight. I'll post a screenshot of the profile.
Ahh ... ok ... got you. Look forward to that.
:)
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Dude!
That graph confirms my long-held suspicions; Milowebailey is one cooool dude.
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Dude!
That graph confirms my long-held suspicions; Milowebailey is one cooool dude.
LOL!
My wife an I are engaged in an eternal battle over the thermostat. I often call her my sweet endotherm (it sounds better than lizard or snake ;D)
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My wife an I are engaged in an eternal battle over the thermostat. I often call her my sweet endotherm (it sounds better than lizard or snake ;D)
Nice to know that we are not the only couple engaged in that battle.
We seem to have come to a truce ... at least temporarily at 20 degrees Celsius ... for Peter that is 70 degrees Fahrenheit.
:)
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My wife an I are engaged in an eternal battle over the thermostat. I often call her my sweet endotherm (it sounds better than lizard or snake ;D)
Nice to know that we are not the only couple engaged in that battle.
We seem to have come to a truce ... at least temporarily at 20 degrees Celsius ... for Peter that is 70 degrees Fahrenheit.
:)
I have yet to meet a couple that doesn't contend with t'stat differences.
Tell your wife that's way too warm. She's contributing to global climate change. SHHEEEEESH! She may as well start using aerosol spray paint! Tell her to lay off the kefir too; leads to flatulence, which leads to temp swings.
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My wife an I are engaged in an eternal battle over the thermostat. I often call her my sweet endotherm (it sounds better than lizard or snake ;D)
Nice to know that we are not the only couple engaged in that battle.
We seem to have come to a truce ... at least temporarily at 20 degrees Celsius ... for Peter that is 70 degrees Fahrenheit.
:)
I have yet to meet a couple that doesn't contend with t'stat differences.
Tell your wife that's way too warm. She's contributing to global climate change. SHHEEEEESH! She may as well start using aerosol spray paint! Tell her to lay off the kefir too; leads to flatulence, which leads to temp swings.
Unfortunately... or maybe fortunately Mrs. Milowebailey is going through "Physical Midlife Changes" and is often hot too... When that happens we are at about the same comfort level.... then she swings back to the sweet endotherm side and requires additional heat sources...
But the battle over the thermostat is never-ending.
The chart came from a time when she was not an endotherm.....
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Well here is the profile curve for setting #5 in my sonofresco. I did stop it at ~450 degrees. the spikes to zero are a software bug while reading the USB port... but you get the idea of when heat is on and off.... they turn it on and off often. I'll add a few photos of the setup too.
The temperature probe is the yellow wire down in the roast chamber. From my experience it's about 7 - 9 degrees hotter than bean temp as 2nd crack happens close to 452 degrees.
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The thing I want to know is....
does the gift basket on the back of the roaster change seasonally or is it just a temporary anomaly ;)
seriously... That is cool Mr. bailey... when you are ready to distribute kits, you let me know and I can start on the logo... or packaging design.. or anything that earns me enough points to afford one :-X
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The thing I want to know is....
does the gift basket on the back of the roaster change seasonally or is it just a temporary anomaly ;)
JJ
You win the prize for noticing (I was thinking Peter would win it). And the prize is.... the contents of the gift basket.... 2 dead plants :P
As I study the curve (drink a glass of Cab and glance at the curve) I realize how poor the curve really is for a commercial roaster.....
I know it's an affordable commercial roaster and Sonofresco hasn't changed anything on the control circuit in almost 10 years. but when I look at an Ambex curve or any of the ones in roast magazine... this curve is a poor approximation anything...... but it still makes pretty darn good coffee with consistent results.... we'll see if it can improved upon. The kits will be under $1000 ;D ;D
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The thing I want to know is....
does the gift basket on the back of the roaster change seasonally or is it just a temporary anomaly ;)
JJ
You win the prize for noticing (I was thinking Peter would win it). And the prize is.... the contents of the gift basket.... 2 dead plants :P
As I study the curve (drink a glass of Cab and glance at the curve) I realize how poor the curve really is for a commercial roaster.....
I know it's an affordable commercial roaster and Sonofresco hasn't changed anything on the control circuit in almost 10 years. but when I look at an Ambex curve or any of the ones in roast magazine... this curve is a poor approximation anything...... but it still makes pretty darn good coffee with consistent results.... we'll see if it can improved upon. The kits will be under $1000 ;D ;D
That was the first thing I noticed, buddy. And thought that must be the price Mrs. Bailey exacts for letting you keep the roaster in her kitchen. It makes it blend in with the decor a bit better. Bill should win the prize, I have a couple dead plants already.
The temp curve looks very even and flatly progressive, no hold points or profile to speak of. But not for long!
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Two things I notice in the profile.....
at about 100 seconds there is a 20 degree drop in temp... very consistent in the two roasts I did. I suspect they use a table and with the steep ramp the first 100 seconds the overshoot where they hope to be so they turn heat off for about 20 seconds... air blowing..... the PID code will hopefully smooth this out...
second: the on/off periods of the burner are too long.... If I can shorten these then the ramp will be much smoother...
third. it hit's second crack at 620 second.... 10 minutes 20 seconds.... seems to me that I'd like to be closer to 12 minutes.. any thoughts?
ok I know that's 3 things.
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The elegant simplicity of your hardware is sweet. The code you drew on looked pretty sharp. I'm going to be REALLY interested in where this ends up.
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The elegant simplicity of your hardware is sweet. The code you drew on looked pretty sharp. I'm going to be REALLY interested in where this ends up.
Yeah ... way to go Milo!
:)
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Have you thought about putting a project up on sourceforge.net or similar?
I bet there are several of us who would contribute.
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The thing I want to know is....
does the gift basket on the back of the roaster change seasonally or is it just a temporary anomaly ;)
JJ
You win the prize for noticing (I was thinking Peter would win it). And the prize is.... the contents of the gift basket.... 2 dead plants :P
As I study the curve (drink a glass of Cab and glance at the curve) I realize how poor the curve really is for a commercial roaster.....
I know it's an affordable commercial roaster and Sonofresco hasn't changed anything on the control circuit in almost 10 years. but when I look at an Ambex curve or any of the ones in roast magazine... this curve is a poor approximation anything...... but it still makes pretty darn good coffee with consistent results.... we'll see if it can improved upon. The kits will be under $1000 ;D ;D
you need a coffee plant up there... crop to cup.... ;)
Although if ou are inclined to believe that plants have feelings I guess that is as pretty cruel place to be.. :-\
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The thing I want to know is....
does the gift basket on the back of the roaster change seasonally or is it just a temporary anomaly ;)
JJ
You win the prize for noticing (I was thinking Peter would win it). And the prize is.... the contents of the gift basket.... 2 dead plants :P
As I study the curve (drink a glass of Cab and glance at the curve) I realize how poor the curve really is for a commercial roaster.....
I know it's an affordable commercial roaster and Sonofresco hasn't changed anything on the control circuit in almost 10 years. but when I look at an Ambex curve or any of the ones in roast magazine... this curve is a poor approximation anything...... but it still makes pretty darn good coffee with consistent results.... we'll see if it can improved upon. The kits will be under $1000 ;D ;D
you need a coffee plant up there... crop to cup.... ;)
Although if ou are inclined to believe that plants have feelings I guess that is as pretty cruel place to be.. :-\
One of the dead plants is a coffee plant :-\
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Although if ou are inclined to believe that plants have feelings I guess that is as pretty cruel place to be.. :-\
One of the dead plants is a coffee plant :-\
Hmm.... maybe it's true !?!?!? :icon_scratch:
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Have you thought about putting a project up on sourceforge.net or similar?
I bet there are several of us who would contribute.
Sir Holiday
I took your advise, and put the project up on sourceforge. I've never used it so I'll have to figure out how to put the code up there, but if you are interested... here is the link.
http://www.milowidget.sourceforge.net
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Sweet!
You will need to have an SVN client. I use http://tortoisesvn.net/. You can diff, merge, branch, etc all within the tool. It is a little invasive to your system (sets itself up in your context menus, etc) but causes few, if any, problems.
The SVN menu option on your project tells you the source directory for your project ( https://milowidget.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/milowidget milowidget )
Just load the code up there in logical folders. The discussion can parallel the development either here or in the project discussion forum.
This is gonna be great. I'll offer up our Probat to use as an industrial test machine.
;D
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Oh good grief. This is getting really nice.
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Sweet!
..............
This is gonna be great. I'll offer up our Probat to use as an industrial test machine.
;D
I'll PM you a shipping address for the Probat! ;D
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Oh my ... and I thought the Sonofresco was a big boy!
;D
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Shipping costs are VERY expensive ;D
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Sweet!
You will need to have an SVN client. I use [url]http://tortoisesvn.net/.[/url] You can diff, merge, branch, etc all within the tool. It is a little invasive to your system (sets itself up in your context menus, etc) but causes few, if any, problems.
The SVN menu option on your project tells you the source directory for your project ( [url]https://milowidget.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/milowidget[/url] milowidget )
Just load the code up there in logical folders. The discussion can parallel the development either here or in the project discussion forum.
This is gonna be great. I'll offer up our Probat to use as an industrial test machine.
;D
Hey doc
I'm getting the following error with the SVN when I try to export the folder from my computer to the server (I assume that's how I move them), any suggestions?
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Shipping costs are VERY expensive ;D
If he's willing to send it, I'd be happy to pay the shipping! ;D ;D
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Even if I was willing, I think my partner Sam would not be. ;)
The way I do it is start with a root folder (the root of where I want to keep my project), the right click it and select "SVN Checkout". This turns the folder into the working local directory of the project. I then add all the project files and the select them, right click and click "Add". Then you can do an SVN Commit which will upload them and commit them to the first branch.
I did all this and was prompted for the login credentials which you should possess.
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Even if I was willing, I think my partner Sam would not be. ;)
The way I do it is start with a root folder (the root of where I want to keep my project), the right click it and select "SVN Checkout". This turns the folder into the working local directory of the project. I then add all the project files and the select them, right click and click "Add". Then you can do an SVN Commit which will upload them and commit them to the first branch.
I did all this and was prompted for the login credentials which you should possess.
There must be an issue here with the firewall.... I'll try from home this evening.
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We might work a DEAL :angel: for shipping. Of course I first would have to have more Makwa Guiji roasted beans. They taste mighty fine this A.M.
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I'll offer up our Probat to use as an industrial test machine.
I'd love to add this to a Probat
Do you have the motor's, blower's, and heat control specs?
We will need to know current, voltage of the motors and blowers and then how to turn the heat on/off - up/down.
Probably down the road a piece, but I might start thinking about the big fish too as I may design a generic interface board for the controls and thermocouples..... then it's just different version of the code for the Arduino.
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We might work a DEAL :angel: for shipping. Of course I first would have to have more Makwa Guiji roasted beans. They taste mighty fine this A.M.
I still have a few lbs of the Makwa left :angel:
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for the gas measurements we need at least: Volume, pressure, flow rate, flow time. We get pressure and control the flow in time by manual rate adjustment. We already get the temp curve for beans and environment.
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Probably down the road a piece, but I might start thinking about the big fish too as I may design a generic interface board for the controls and thermocouples..... then it's just different version of the code for the Arduino.
If the whole app is designed using the provider model, we should be able to just plug in the appropriate providers: ProbatProvider, HotTopProvider, SonoWowWowProvider, etc. Its a bit more work up front but will be easier in the long run.
Post up a hardware list so we can order our stuff then we can get caught up with you.
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Probably down the road a piece, but I might start thinking about the big fish too as I may design a generic interface board for the controls and thermocouples..... then it's just different version of the code for the Arduino.
If the whole app is designed using the provider model, we should be able to just plug in the appropriate providers: ProbatProvider, HotTopProvider, SonoWowWowProvider, etc. Its a bit more work up front but will be easier in the long run.
Post up a hardware list so we can order our stuff then we can get caught up with you.
Will do, The only think I don't know what to tell you to order is which solid state relays. Also I don't know if you have a circuit prototype board, I'll add that as an option if you need one. Also a selection of 1/4 watt resistors may be helpful too.
I'll have to dig a little, but I'll post something later.
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I uploaded the current code.
And all the hardware needed to get started. For those who want to follow along.
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I've been thinking about different ways to set the profile and the flexibility that I'd like with the Sonofresco
The first photo is what I measured at the exhaust temperature that the sonofresco uses for it's profile (I put my thermocouple in the same location as the one they have factory installed. Notice the sort of preheat ramp and soak they use....
The second photo is the same profile measuring bean temperature... note the over shoot where they were trying to preheat and soak. I'm hoping the PID will help here.
The third photo is a 5 stage profile that I programmed into the milowidget (not connected to the roaster, but the temperature profile that could be programmed. I have developed it so that you can select time and temperature for each of the 5 stages. You can decide what time 1st crack will happen, when to end at what temperature and 3 other stages to do what you want... preheat, ramp and soak, etc.... I plan to experiment with different profiles on a known bean just to see the difference.
The next step is wiring in the milowidget to the sonofresco..... although I may try it first on my old Alpenrost.... unless someone wants to send me a Dietrich IR-3 or another sono ;D ;D Actually it would be fun with a SC/TO... I may be hunting for one of those soon.
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Good work Milo.
:)
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So I decided today to use my old alpenroast as my first Milowidget controlled roaster. Hope to do a test roast this weekend.
I'll have the fire extinguisher in hand ;D
I'll plot the results and take a few photos for the lurkers >:D interested folks
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So I decided today to use my old alpenroast as my first Milowidget controlled roaster. Hope to do a test roast this weekend.
I'll have the fire extinguisher in hand ;D
I'll plot the results and take a few photos for the lurkers >:D interested folks
What happened with the Sonofresco? Are you doing the AlpenRoast just in case something unpredictable should occur?
:)
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So I decided today to use my old alpenroast as my first Milowidget controlled roaster. Hope to do a test roast this weekend.
I'll have the fire extinguisher in hand ;D
I'll plot the results and take a few photos for the lurkers >:D interested folks
What happened with the Sonofresco? Are you doing the AlpenRoast just in case something unpredictable should occur?
:)
Sonofresco is still in the plan, however I anticipate some bugs development time and need to roast coffee in the mean time. Since I have to take out the existing controller in the Sonofresco to connect and test the Milowidget I figured that using my Alpenrost would make more sense than gutting the Sono right away. Once I get the bugs out of the software then I can connect to the Sono and work on the PID. One step at a time.
I am accepting donations for a second Sonofresco if folks would like to contribute ;D
Attached is the preliminary Sonofresco design (block diagram) ... and the Alpenrost design (block diagram).... more to interface with really.
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Arduino ordered, with other breadboard components to follow. I'll be looking to use this as a basis for a Hottop control system at some point, following in your footsteps...
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Ok, that's 3 of us now! Very cool.
What controls will be needed for the Hottop? Heater, fan, any motors?? Do any of the motors reverse?
Looks like 2 fans, two motors, and solonoid and heater...
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Ok, that's 3 of us now! Very cool.
What controls will be needed for the Hottop? Heater, fan, any motors?? Do any of the motors reverse?
Looks like 2 fans, two motors, and solonoid and heater...
The cooling motor does reverse. The solonoid is for the bean drop mechanism? I swear I have seen a wiring diagram for the hottop.
Chad do you have a B?
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Ok, that's 3 of us now! Very cool.
What controls will be needed for the Hottop? Heater, fan, any motors?? Do any of the motors reverse?
Looks like 2 fans, two motors, and solonoid and heater...
The cooling motor does reverse. The solonoid is for the bean drop mechanism? I swear I have seen a wiring diagram for the hottop.
Chad do you have a B?
I will have a B as soon as the panel gets here.
As far as what I want to control, at the moment it will be the heater and fan. Then I'll work on the cooling motor and bean dump solenoid. The drum motor will just be maintaining the existing controls--no need to change it out.
Ideally, I am thinking of grabbing one of the older models (pre-B/P) for the mods. In the meantime, I am putting in a ET/BT datalogging module (standalone, not with the widget) when I install the B controller.
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Sonofresco is still in the plan, however I anticipate some bugs development time and need to roast coffee in the mean time. Since I have to take out the existing controller in the Sonofresco to connect and test the Milowidget I figured that using my Alpenrost would make more sense than gutting the Sono right away. Once I get the bugs out of the software then I can connect to the Sono and work on the PID. One step at a time.
I see ... of course that makes perfect sense. Besides ...you probably want one of those Milowidgets on the Alpenroast anyway ... right?
:)
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Sonofresco is still in the plan, however I anticipate some bugs development time and need to roast coffee in the mean time. Since I have to take out the existing controller in the Sonofresco to connect and test the Milowidget I figured that using my Alpenrost would make more sense than gutting the Sono right away. Once I get the bugs out of the software then I can connect to the Sono and work on the PID. One step at a time.
I see ... of course that makes perfect sense. Besides ...you probably want one of those Milowidgets on the Alpenroast anyway ... right?
:)
4 years ago I did design a son of milowidget for the alp.... the problem was I had to take the machine apart and re-burn an eprom to change the profile and I kinda outgrew the alp. I sold it to a co-worker who never used it so I'm buying it back... it will be good for a sample roaster with the milowidget.
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Ok, that's 3 of us now! Very cool.
What controls will be needed for the Hottop? Heater, fan, any motors?? Do any of the motors reverse?
Looks like 2 fans, two motors, and solonoid and heater...
The cooling motor does reverse. The solonoid is for the bean drop mechanism? I swear I have seen a wiring diagram for the hottop.
Chad do you have a B?
I will have a B as soon as the panel gets here.
As far as what I want to control, at the moment it will be the heater and fan. Then I'll work on the cooling motor and bean dump solenoid. The drum motor will just be maintaining the existing controls--no need to change it out.
Ideally, I am thinking of grabbing one of the older models (pre-B/P) for the mods. In the meantime, I am putting in a ET/BT datalogging module (standalone, not with the widget) when I install the B controller.
If you can score 2 of the older models I'd be up for one. ;D ;D Heater and fan are easy... bus so are the cooling motor and bean dump. If it were me I'd build the hardware interface for all of them and if need be start with coding the heater and fan. From what I read the fan is a DC motor so it's just a matter of programming an analog pin with an amplifier to change the speed of the fan. The heater is a simple solid state relay connected to a digital pin. Control will be similar to the Sonofresco.... except I haven't figured out how to control the AC fan without spending a lot of ##.. but I may try pulsing as solid state relay...
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Whoah there, did someone say they were going to do something all-sciency to a HotTop? Cool!
Let me know when the HotTopenstein is ready to roll out to us HotTop commoners (please consider the lower class than commoner citizens who dig espresso profiles).
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Whoah there, did someone say they were going to do something all-sciency to a HotTop? Cool!
Let me know when the HotTopenstein is ready to roll out to us HotTop commoners (please consider the lower class than commoner citizens who dig espresso profiles).
HotTopenstein?!?! its the Milowidget... and when it is done it will plug into any roaster.. that way you can buy one then as your roaster gets bigger the Milowidget will still be your best roasting buddy ;D
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HotTopenstein?!?! its the Milowidget... and when it is done it will plug into any roaster.. that way you can buy one then as your roaster gets bigger the Milowidget will still be your best roasting buddy ;D
The MiloWidget ... the first and last coffee roaster control unit that you will ever need. Get one soon to hold your status as a true roasting geek!
:)
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Whoah there, did someone say they were going to do something all-sciency to a HotTop? Cool!
Let me know when the HotTopenstein is ready to roll out to us HotTop commoners (please consider the lower class than commoner citizens who dig espresso profiles).
HotTopenstein?!?! its the Milowidget... and when it is done it will plug into any roaster.. that way you can buy one then as your roaster gets bigger the Milowidget will still be your best roasting buddy ;D
That's assuming Larry and I make the widget the same...
Of course, since I cannot code to save my tuchas...it may be the same. Who knows?
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As I read this thread I'm dreaming that there will be a milowidget in every household.... Shaun will have one on his unicycle, Peter one on his SC/TO, Buttwhiskers on his Hello Kitties, Bold|Java on his vacpots, SusanJoM on her chicken coop, Tex on his whole heard of roaster, Rasqual on his RK, cfsheridan on his Hottop, crholiday on his probat, Nimbus running the whole Monkey House, Monito on his 2 bag roaster (testing on this one could get spendy), Starbucks on their.......naaaaaa....... it will be more popular than the Edsel I say!!!!
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As I read this thread I'm dreaming that there will be a milowidget in every household.... Shaun will have one on his unicycle, Peter one on his SC/TO, Buttwhiskers on his Hello Kitties, Bold|Java on his vacpots, SusanJoM on her chicken coop, Tex on his whole heard of roaster, Rasqual on his RK, cfsheridan on his Hottop, crholiday on his probat, Nimbus running the whole Monkey House, Monito on his 2 bag roaster (testing on this one could get spendy), Starbucks on their.......naaaaaa....... it will be more popular than the Edsel I say!!!!
WWIS (What would Ike say?)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Dwight_D._Eisenhower%2C_official_Presidential_portrait.jpg/180px-Dwight_D._Eisenhower%2C_official_Presidential_portrait.jpg)
In the councils of government coffee, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the milowebailey-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
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That's assuming Larry and I make the widget the same...
You're not suggesting a cheap knock-off of a cheap knock-off are you?..... That would be like copying a fake Rolex.
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I got the beta hardware interface board put together yesterday and updated the PC code to plot bean temperature and profile temperature together.... (big progress). I picked up the Alpenrost this morning (I'd sold it to a friend 2 years ago and he's never used it so I bought it back) and will probably start tinkering with it today or tomorrow... I can't wait until the weekend. I think it's the little kid in me.
Photos and screenshots to come in the next couple days.
Also I've decided to design a generic hardware interface board that would work with any roaster. I may move over from solid state relays to SCR's so I can get more current switching for the $$ (make the board a little less expensive).
The idea is the the generic board will have:
- Up to 4 AC on/off circuits (up to ?? amps each).
- Accept up to 3 thermocouples so as to measure 3 temperatures.
- Up to 2 dc on/off/forward/backward circuits
- 1 dc variable voltage circuits to control the speed of a motor
- maybe 1 variable AC speed control output
I think this would accommodate most any roaster. Any thoughts? Anything I've left out
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The idea is the the generic board will have:
- Up to 4 AC on/off circuits (up to ?? amps each).
- Accept up to 3 thermocouples so as to measure 3 temperatures.
- Up to 2 dc on/off/forward/backward circuits
- 1 dc variable voltage circuits to control the speed of a motor
- maybe 1 variable AC speed control output
I think this would accommodate most any roaster. Any thoughts? Anything I've left out
Will the PID code be resident on the Arduino, or will the horsepower come from the PC with the widget acting as a acquisition/control interface? I haven't fooled with the arduino in any detail yet, but I'd wager that this is going to push the limit on clock cycles and/or code space and/or memory pretty quickly.
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The idea is the the generic board will have:
- Up to 4 AC on/off circuits (up to ?? amps each).
- Accept up to 3 thermocouples so as to measure 3 temperatures.
- Up to 2 dc on/off/forward/backward circuits
- 1 dc variable voltage circuits to control the speed of a motor
- maybe 1 variable AC speed control output
I think this would accommodate most any roaster. Any thoughts? Anything I've left out
Will the PID code be resident on the Arduino, or will the horsepower come from the PC with the widget acting as a acquisition/control interface? I haven't fooled with the arduino in any detail yet, but I'd wager that this is going to push the limit on clock cycles and/or code space and/or memory pretty quickly.
The PID will reside on the Arduino. It has been used on an espresso machine already... not by me, but by someone else. I'm thinking that the heat control update will only need to be done every 1 - 3 seconds. So lots of processor time for the PID... that said I have not tried the PID yet. I'm hoping to give that a try this weekend.
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...snip...
BTW I'm using som solid state relays ($4 ea) for the blower and the heater.
snip......
Where did you buy those...that is inexpensive. I pay $10 for 25Amps
-pat
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...snip...
BTW I'm using som solid state relays ($4 ea) for the blower and the heater.
snip......
Where did you buy those...that is inexpensive. I pay $10 for 25Amps
-pat
Pat
these are only 2 amp... purchased through Digikey... what are you controlling that pulls 25 amps?
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...snip...
BTW I'm using som solid state relays ($4 ea) for the blower and the heater.
snip......
Where did you buy those...that is inexpensive. I pay $10 for 25Amps
-pat
Pat
these are only 2 amp... purchased through Digikey... what are you controlling that pulls 25 amps?
The Heating elements from my 1.5 K roaster (2k Watts)...
-pat
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I think an SCR might be a better device to switch that on/off... I'll look into it.
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...snip...
BTW I'm using som solid state relays ($4 ea) for the blower and the heater.
snip......
Where did you buy those...that is inexpensive. I pay $10 for 25Amps
-pat
Pat
these are only 2 amp... purchased through Digikey... what are you controlling that pulls 25 amps?
The Heating elements from my 1.5 K roaster (2k Watts)...
-pat
This little guy (http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/BT145_SERIES_1.pdf) would do nicely. 25 amps @ 800 volts.
$1.35 through digikey. I does require a Triac driver(optical isolator $1.25) and big heat sink, but that might add another $1 - 2...
I don't need that much current capability, but I'll design for 25 amps.... and fuse it at 20 amps as your application only needs 18 amps
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I got the beta hardware interface board put together yesterday and updated the PC code to plot bean temperature and profile temperature together.... (big progress). I picked up the Alpenrost this morning (I'd sold it to a friend 2 years ago and he's never used it so I bought it back) and will probably start tinkering with it today or tomorrow... I can't wait until the weekend. I think it's the little kid in me.
Photos and screenshots to come in the next couple days.
Also I've decided to design a generic hardware interface board that would work with any roaster. I may move over from solid state relays to SCR's so I can get more current switching for the $$ (make the board a little less expensive).
The idea is the the generic board will have:
- Up to 4 AC on/off circuits (up to ?? amps each).
- Accept up to 3 thermocouples so as to measure 3 temperatures.
- Up to 2 dc on/off/forward/backward circuits
- 1 dc variable voltage circuits to control the speed of a motor
- maybe 1 variable AC speed control output
I think this would accommodate most any roaster. Any thoughts? Anything I've left out
Maybe a second vairable voltage output for burner control. The burners on my ambex are controlled by a knob that sends a variable dc signal to a digital proportioning valve. A variable dc output in addition to the motor output would be huge in my book.
Is the 1st variable dc output to control a motor that would open a dump door possibly?? ;D
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Is it sending a variable Voltage or Variable signal on DC?
Signal would be better...
-pat
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Is it sending a variable Voltage or Variable signal on DC?
Signal would be better...
-pat
when you say variable signal on dc.... that to me means an AC signal with a DC offset.... I'm guessing the Ambex burner is controlled is using a voltage from 0 - 24 volts in x number of steps... e.g. 12 volts would have the valve open 50%. variable DC voltage.. fairly easy to do.... but more circuitry if it's more than 5 volts.... the interface board is getting larger ;D
I may have to re-think this a bit an maybe have a large and small interface board. Small for simple roasters SC/TO Sonofresco. Large for Probat, Ambex etc..... Where the small board would be a subset of the larger board.....
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I may have to re-think this a bit an maybe have a large and small interface board. Small for simple roasters SC/TO Sonofresco. Large for Probat, Ambex etc..... Where the small board would be a subset of the larger board.....
Milo ... I see your widget is transforming into an all purpose modularized coffee roaster pid'd programmable one stop solution.
:)
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I may have to re-think this a bit an maybe have a large and small interface board. Small for simple roasters SC/TO Sonofresco. Large for Probat, Ambex etc..... Where the small board would be a subset of the larger board.....
Milo ... I see your widget is transforming into an all purpose modularized coffee roaster pid'd programmable one stop solution.
:)
Yep, the Milowidget is Frankensteinish!
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I may have to re-think this a bit an maybe have a large and small interface board. Small for simple roasters SC/TO Sonofresco. Large for Probat, Ambex etc..... Where the small board would be a subset of the larger board.....
Milo ... I see your widget is transforming into an all purpose modularized coffee roaster pid'd programmable one stop solution.
:)
Yep, the Milowidget is Frankensteinish!
FrankenWidget.....
Ok... so I been looking at these Arduino thangs.... will the Nano (http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardNano) or BoArduino (http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=91&sessid=da592e52c51caa41a00ef57b3bf8196f) work with no modification of your software?? I am cheap, yes but it alo plugs directly to the bread board.. ;D I think its a bad idea because I am tied to the PC for USB power but curious
~~edit: I see as I read trough again the link to sourceforge has equipment list... ~~~
~~edit2: but I cant seem to find it :) do I have to be one of the developers?? ~~~
also what do I need to start looking for ...
bread board (radio shack)
thermal probe part #'s ?? (digikey)
misculaniouse LEDs,
diodes,
transistors??? (radio shack)
I don't think I can spend much now but I saw a few things on sale at radio shack and started wondering what deals I should be jumping on
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J. J.
It looks like either of those other boards would work. You will have to select the board you have before you run the compiler. You might want to hold off buying components until you know what you need. Save up for the bigger items.
Thermocouple, Thermocouple driver, solid state relays or Triacs depending on which one you'll need.
Here is what I bought to start:
Arduino
USB cable (my Arduino came with one)
Breadboard (digikey 438-1046-ND)
Thermocouple (digikey TP-29-ND)
Thermocouple driver ( digikey AD595CQ-ND)
I'd buy the above at either digikey or Frys electronics... stay away from Radio shack for this stuff IMO
a selection of LED's (I had a bunch) Radio shack may have a selection.
a selection of 1/4 watt resistors (10k, 1k, 330 Ohms) Radio shack may have a selection.
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Looks like my test on my Alpenrost will be delayed a few days. The electric heater needs a 16 amp relay and I only have 2 amp relays so I have to order some parts.... delayed until early next week I suspect..... unless I can find a Triac somewhere in my stash of electronic junk.
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J. J.
I'd buy the above at either digikey or Frys electronics... stay away from Radio shack for this stuff IMO
I just wandered in to Radio Shack... I typically go to a local electronics place north of me (Chesters Elec.) for serious stuff like this... its the kind of place they named radio shack after.... amazing they can stay open.. I guess because they are the only one...
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Looks like my test on my Alpenrost will be delayed a few days. The electric heater needs a 16 amp relay and I only have 2 amp relays so I have to order some parts.... delayed until early next week I suspect..... unless I can find a Triac somewhere in my stash of electronic junk.
Meanwhile you can brew some coffee and enjoy!
:)
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Thought about adding data logging? Using this (http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=vnwGVgFuQiaXiIYfszw2eg%3D%3D) perhaps? There is a bit about it on the arduino playground (http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Main/UsbMemory) as well. Looks like it only takes 2 pins for a serial interface.
A jump drive might be an interesting place to store a profile too.
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Thought about adding data logging? Using this ([url]http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=vnwGVgFuQiaXiIYfszw2eg%3D%3D[/url]) perhaps? There is a bit about it on the arduino playground ([url]http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Main/UsbMemory[/url]) as well. Looks like it only takes 2 pins for a serial interface.
A jump drive might be an interesting place to store a profile too.
I could easily add datalogging since I'm already reading the USB port with the PC... just a matter of writing that data to a file. Probably a bit down the road, but I could easily do that.
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Thought about adding data logging? Using this ([url]http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=vnwGVgFuQiaXiIYfszw2eg%3D%3D[/url]) perhaps? There is a bit about it on the arduino playground ([url]http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Main/UsbMemory[/url]) as well. Looks like it only takes 2 pins for a serial interface.
A jump drive might be an interesting place to store a profile too.
I could easily add datalogging since I'm already reading the USB port with the PC... just a matter of writing that data to a file. Probably a bit down the road, but I could easily do that.
I'm sure the data log to jump drive will go well with the LCD display and possibly even allow us to change profiles with out the lap top but I for one see the spare laptop in my junk room as the cheap work around for most of the extras (assuming it still works) ::)
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I got the hardware for the Alpenrost interface. I started gluing last night and I'm hoping to get it all glued together this afternoon... maybe fire up the alp tonight or tomorrow.... photos to come.
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I got the hardware for the Alpenrost interface. I started gluing last night and I'm hoping to get it all glued together this afternoon... maybe fire up the alp tonight or tomorrow.... photos to come.
Good news Milo ... now progress continues.
:)
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Thermocouple (digikey TP-29-ND)
Thermocouple driver ( digikey AD595CQ-ND)
thermocouples and driver question.... the thermocouples I already have are K type... I presume they will work.. I know the bead end ones are faster but I have what I have.... some are enclosed in a metal probe and at least one is the little button tipe that screws into the side of the roast chamber but stays close to the wall... Is that a safe presumption? and will the thermocouple driver work with other types of thermocouples like J
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Thermocouple (digikey TP-29-ND)
Thermocouple driver ( digikey AD595CQ-ND)
thermocouples and driver question.... the thermocouples I already have are K type... I presume they will work.. I know the bead end ones are faster but I have what I have.... some are enclosed in a metal probe and at least one is the little button tipe that screws into the side of the roast chamber but stays close to the wall... Is that a safe presumption? and will the thermocouple driver work with other types of thermocouples like J
Yes,..... they should work with the AD595xx driver... it's for a K type thermocouple. If you have a J type then use an AD594xx driver.
The thermocouple type depends on the material the wires are made from. when two dissimilar metals are welded together at one end it creates a voltage based on heat at the other end... very consistent (gas heaters use one to detect the pilot light), K and J are just different type of wire with different voltage vs temperature curves. So all K's should work with an AD595 and all J's should work with the AD594. Keep in mind the polarity matters... if it doesn't work swap the leads.
More here if you want to know. (http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/mastascu/elessonsHTML/Sensors/TempThermCpl.html)
The AD594/AD595 is a complete instrumentation amplifier and thermocouple cold junction compensator on a monolithic chip. It combines an ice point reference with a precalibrated amplifier to produce a high level (10 mV/?C) output directly from a thermocouple signal.
so using this amp you can use a simple algorithm to convert the mV to degrees... because it's now linear.
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More here if you want to know. ([url]http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/mastascu/elessonsHTML/Sensors/TempThermCpl.html[/url])
Thank you...
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More here if you want to know. ([url]http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/mastascu/elessonsHTML/Sensors/TempThermCpl.html[/url])
Nice link Milo.
:)
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Here is an update.
I've built 2 prototype interface boards.
The one on the left is a prototype for an all electric roaster (Alpenrost) and has controls for 12 V damper, 12 V drive motor, 110 V AC heater and fan. It's currently set up for 1 thermocouple, but there is room to squeeze one more driver in the middle of the board.
The one in the center is a prototype for a simple gas roaster (sonofresco) and has controls for 110 V fan, and burner on/off control. It has 2 thermocouple drivers (although there is no chip in one of the sockets yet).
On the right is the Arduino.
The proto boards are 2" x 3", so you can see how small the Arduino really is.
I'm missing one part for the Alpenrost controler... so It will be at least another day before I get it hooked up and ready to test.
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Larry, where are you getting those prototype boards?
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Larry, where are you getting those prototype boards?
the local prototype board store... of course.. ;)
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Larry, where are you getting those prototype boards?
I had the bare boards laying around.... in my electronics stash. I don't know where I got them... Digikey it thought but don't see there there now.
Here is an ebay store (http://cgi.ebay.com/4-x2-7-Prototyping-Board-PCB-Prototype-Kit-5-Pieces_W0QQitemZ270306685656QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio_Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item270306685656&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50) that you can get them pretty cheap, although for the hottop controller it will probably take a larger board. I'll probably get some boards built for the hottop once I build the prototype, I suspect there will be enough interest in upgrading the hottop. Last time I had boards made they were about $10 per board...
These (http://cgi.ebay.com/PCB-Printed-Circuit-Board-prototype-9-5x15-4-x6_W0QQitemZ360090102929QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Electronic_Components?hash=item360090102929&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14) are more the size you'll need for the hottop.... it may have to be cut down..
If you have a Frys electronics nearby they would have them too. and there is always Radio Junk.
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One more thought. You can use these type prototype boards for low voltage/current stuff like the thermocouples, but I'm leary about 110v @ 10 amps through those.... and that's why I use the solder type for the power circuits with larger wire. Note the thin aluminum contacts on the bottom.
I vaporized some of those in one of my college labs.... part of the learning though.
(http://www.markallen.com/teaching/ucsd/147a/lectures/DC%20Basics/images/Breadboard.jpg)
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On one of my several sojourns at the ASW base in San Diego (that would be FLEASWTRACENPAC), I was in a course that inspired me to do a lot of independent breadboarding in my room. One night I connected Vcc straight across a low-resistance precision (10 turn) potentiometer, toasting it. The devices are quite small.
The next day I was recounting my folly to another student in the hall of one of the lab buildings. Just as a CPO I didn't know was walking by, I was heard saying "Yeah, I smoked a little pot' last night."
His head snapped around and stared in my direction almost involuntarily (as if wishing to pause independently of his feet, which kept walking).
That was about a year after the zero-tolerance success in cleaning up the Navy, back in the early 80s.
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some one gave me a PC with a bad power supply many years ago.... seams it kept blowing the fuse... little tin foil around the fuse made it clear what components in the PS were trying to fail (the ones at the base of the column of blue smoke :-X
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Well my laptop is about 98% back to normal (I ended up having to empty and reload it) and finally got all the needed bits back in it, so now back to the Milowidget project. Hope to let the sparks fly this afternoon on the Alpenrost. If you don't hear from me by 9 pm something went horribly wrong....
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Hope to let the sparks fly this afternoon on the Alpenrost. If you don't hear from me by 9 pm something went horribly wrong....
Mmm.. Sparks... pretty
(http://home.datacomm.ch/k.schraner/blitzanimation.gif)
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Well my laptop is about 98% back to normal (I ended up having to empty and reload it) and finally got all the needed bits back in it, so now back to the Milowidget project. Hope to let the sparks fly this afternoon on the Alpenrost. If you don't hear from me by 9 pm something went horribly wrong....
Burn Baby, Burn!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO9u_SLvB_Q[/youtube]
After disco, everything is cool and nothing can ever go wrong again.
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Well my laptop is about 98% back to normal (I ended up having to empty and reload it) and finally got all the needed bits back in it, so now back to the Milowidget project. Hope to let the sparks fly this afternoon on the Alpenrost. If you don't hear from me by 9 pm something went horribly wrong....
WAIT!!!
Update the code repository before you turn it on!!
:D
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Well my laptop is about 98% back to normal (I ended up having to empty and reload it) and finally got all the needed bits back in it, so now back to the Milowidget project. Hope to let the sparks fly this afternoon on the Alpenrost. If you don't hear from me by 9 pm something went horribly wrong....
WAIT!!!
Update the code repository before you turn it on!!
:D
You just reminded me of some more bits I have to put in the laptop :P
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Made a little progress once I figure out I had 5 volts and the thermocouple amp output swapped....
casualtiy- 1 ea. AD595AQ _ $10 mistake...... :BangHead:
After that I'm going to double check all my connections and wiring...
Other than that it seems to be working. Looks like I need to work on the code a little more... I need to set the initial settings... didn't do that.... need to.
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No biggie Milo ... keep up the great work!
:)
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Milo ... I was thinking ... are you familiar with Ron Popiel's Showtime Rotisserie? Many believe that it is not hot enough for coffee beans. Would the MiloWidget be able to increase the heat enough or would some modification to the heat element be necessary in order to produce sufficient heat for coffee bean roasting for this baby?
This would make a cheap alternative to a Hottop drum roaster with a drum from CoffeeRoasters if possible.
:)
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Milo ... I was thinking ... are you familiar with Ron Popiel's Showtime Rotisserie? Many believe that it is not hot enough for coffee beans. Would the MiloWidget be able to increase the heat enough or would some modification to the heat element be necessary in order to produce sufficient heat for coffee bean roasting for this baby?
This would make a cheap alternative to a Hottop drum roaster with a drum from CoffeeRoasters if possible.
:)
Although the Milowidget is quite magical, I can't add more power. The heating element can only add x amount of heat. Also the appliance itself needs to be designed to handle that much heat too. The Glass, and other materials (drive motor, gears, etc.) would also need to be able to handle the heat too.
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Although the Milowidget is quite magical, I can't add more power. The heating element can only add x amount of heat. Also the appliance itself needs to be designed to handle that much heat too. The Glass, and other materials (drive motor, gears, etc.) would also need to be able to handle the heat too.
Ok ... thanks for the clarification. So even if you were able to get a heating element that would generate more heat the glass and other materials would also need to be upgraded to handle the heat?
So that is the bottom line?
Thanks
:)
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Although the Milowidget is quite magical, I can't add more power. The heating element can only add x amount of heat. Also the appliance itself needs to be designed to handle that much heat too. The Glass, and other materials (drive motor, gears, etc.) would also need to be able to handle the heat too.
Ok ... thanks for the clarification. So even if you were able to get a heating element that would generate more heat the glass and other materials would also need to be upgraded to handle the heat?
So that is the bottom line?
Thanks
:)
Think of the stir-crazy.... it has to be modified to add the Turbo Oven or the stirring mechanism eventually melts. That's not to say that only a larger heating element wouldn't work, but the caution is you may have a Chernobyl on your hands if you aren't careful and just ad a larger heating element.
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Think of the stir-crazy.... it has to be modified to add the Turbo Oven or the stirring mechanism eventually melts. That's not to say that only a larger heating element wouldn't work, but the caution is you may have a Chernobyl on your hands if you aren't careful and just ad a larger heating element.
Ok ... gotch'ya. This is probably something I should stay a fair distance from.
;)
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Although the Milowidget is quite magical, I can't add more power. The heating element can only add x amount of heat. Also the appliance itself needs to be designed to handle that much heat too. The Glass, and other materials (drive motor, gears, etc.) would also need to be able to handle the heat too.
Ok ... thanks for the clarification. So even if you were able to get a heating element that would generate more heat the glass and other materials would also need to be upgraded to handle the heat?
So that is the bottom line?
Thanks
:)
Think of the stir-crazy.... it has to be modified to add the Turbo Oven or the stirring mechanism eventually melts. That's not to say that only a larger heating element wouldn't work, but the caution is you may have a Chernobyl on your hands if you aren't careful and just ad a larger heating element.
Hm... Behmor Roasters are cheaper than kitchens.... got it ;)
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I got the hardware interface board for the Alpenrost connected to the Arduino and Alpenrost and smoke tested the rest of the board... one bad solder joint (no pain, no loss) and one mis-wire on the high voltage Triac.... dead triac and two vaporized resistors.... $3 error.
All is good now. Tomorrow or maybe later tonight I may run a short program to see how well it ramps....
Photos to come.
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Although the Milowidget is quite magical, I can't add more power. The heating element can only add x amount of heat. Also the appliance itself needs to be designed to handle that much heat too. The Glass, and other materials (drive motor, gears, etc.) would also need to be able to handle the heat too.
Ok ... thanks for the clarification. So even if you were able to get a heating element that would generate more heat the glass and other materials would also need to be upgraded to handle the heat?
So that is the bottom line?
Thanks
:)
Think of the stir-crazy.... it has to be modified to add the Turbo Oven or the stirring mechanism eventually melts. That's not to say that only a larger heating element wouldn't work, but the caution is you may have a Chernobyl on your hands if you aren't careful and just ad a larger heating element.
Hm... Behmor Roasters are cheaper than kitchens.... got it ;)
Ed Zachery!!
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Although the Milowidget is quite magical, I can't add more power. The heating element can only add x amount of heat. Also the appliance itself needs to be designed to handle that much heat too. The Glass, and other materials (drive motor, gears, etc.) would also need to be able to handle the heat too.
Ok ... thanks for the clarification. So even if you were able to get a heating element that would generate more heat the glass and other materials would also need to be upgraded to handle the heat?
So that is the bottom line?
Thanks
:)
Think of the stir-crazy.... it has to be modified to add the Turbo Oven or the stirring mechanism eventually melts. That's not to say that only a larger heating element wouldn't work, but the caution is you may have a Chernobyl on your hands if you aren't careful and just ad a larger heating element.
Hm... Behmor Roasters are cheaper than kitchens.... got it ;)
Ed Zachery!!
Not if I can get it past the insurance man... we need a new kitchen ....
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Ok, this is the first pseudo roast.... no beans but a linear ramp profile with 3 of the 5 steps.
Ignore the spikes in the plots as that's a glitch in my com port software... or maybe, as I think about it, it may be the USB cable I'm using.... I will try a different one tomorrow.... good news is without PID the milowidget follows the profile pretty well... not too much over swing and I'm only adjusting the heater every 1 second. I may change that to 1/2 second or less... we'll see how the PID works.
In the first plot note the overshoot on the first ramp transition... not sure how the PID will handle this... we'll see soon
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This was the first real deal... bean and all. 150 grams to start..... I'll try the next one at 200 grams or so. The heater in the alpenrost could not hit the 250 degree mark in 2 minutes, but once it caught up did a pretty good job of following the profile. I may need to play with either the thermocouple placement or the profile temperature to hit 1st and 2nd crack where I want, because this one barely made it into 1st crack at thermocouple temperature of 450..... I'm guessing the thermocouple was 1 1/2 " above the bean mass... but the milowewidget did follow the profile pretty well.
remember this does not have PID implemented yet. Basically the logic is: if thermocouple temperature is less than profile turn heater on... if more than profile turn it off... and I only do it once per second...
I'm pretty happy with this first stab.... More to come
1st photo is the setup
2nd photo is the thermocouple installation
3rd photo is the finished product....
2 plots are of the roast profile.
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Nice work Milo. You certainly fit the part of the mad scientist very well.
:)
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Very encouraging..... on your first live roast you showed two graphs... is that two roasts or am I confused on the data I am reading?? What I see that I like is the roaster doing what you told it... I just came in from roasting and my PID is pretty agreeable up over 400 but in that caramel zone I have a hard time getting consistency and slow steady climb
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Very encouraging..... on your first live roast you showed two graphs... is that two roasts or am I confused on the data I am reading?? What I see that I like is the roaster doing what you told it... I just came in from roasting and my PID is pretty agreeable up over 400 but in that caramel zone I have a hard time getting consistency and slow steady climb
JJ
The 2 graphs are the same curve captured at two different times.
The 1st one a captured at ~3 minutes into the roast to show that detail
The 2nd one is captured after the roast.. note the time on the bottom of each graph
Also note that is is on an electric heat source where I can turn on and off the heat very fast... I'm not sure how quickly I can adjust the heat on my gas roaster. Different dynamics so time will tell. The cool part is I can see what's going and control the roast without spending a fortune. I think I'm into this on the alpenrost for about $60.... but I'm sure it will be more once I tally it all.
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Very encouraging..... on your first live roast you showed two graphs... is that two roasts or am I confused on the data I am reading?? What I see that I like is the roaster doing what you told it... I just came in from roasting and my PID is pretty agreeable up over 400 but in that caramel zone I have a hard time getting consistency and slow steady climb
JJ
The 2 graphs are the same curve captured at two different times.
The 1st one a captured at ~3 minutes into the roast to show that detail
The 2nd one is captured after the roast.. note the time on the bottom of each graph
Duh.... :-X thanks..
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I'm still going down this rabbit hole... I figured I needed to understand my new Hottop before I move the Milowidget over to it. I've been roasting on it (bunch of samples) over the last week and think I understand most of the logic behind the control system.
I could use some input from some of you Hottopers. Other than removing the moisture early on in the roast and to cool down the roaster, when should the fan come on and why?
My thinking is with an electric element and PID you can control the heat well just with the element....
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Milo, what's your secret?
How do you get your wife to peaceably agree to allow you to mess up her kitchen like that?
It took mine a looong time to put up with having an espresso machine & a grinder on her kitchen island ;D
I was somehow wishing for separate controls for my P model Hottop, like the ones on my modded WBP1.
I have been dutifully logging in Ambient temp, bean Type & weight (250 grams). With my manual 'profile' I log in time of each Segment, fan Speed, and actual temp at the end of Segment and also record max temp pre-programmed. I have noticed a pattern of 'stalling for 2 to 3 min' around 350F, that has been driving me nuts, lately.
I like the idea of programmed roasts, but I like to fully control the roast as it progresses.
If you figure out the best way to hack into a hottop, I'm all ears!
Don't get me wrong, I like the design of it, I just think that I can do a better job of controlling the roast without all the added electronics, (that are great for a novice, BTW). So far, my attempts @ tweaking are more like tricking, if you know what I mean :D
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I'm still going down this rabbit hole...
Just beware the bottle labeled, "Drink Me" It's a one-way trip to the sixties.
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Thanks for the tip Tex
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Thanks for the tip Tex
That's avatar material, for sure!
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Larry, what I generally do with the Hottop fan is to bring it on 50% power for about 30 seconds between 3-4 minutes into the roast (suck out the moisture). I then leave it off until about 6-8 minutes in, when I set to 25%. About 10-12 minutes in (right before first crack), I push the fan to 50%. It generally stays there, unless I need to quickly slow things down--that is, the temp ramp gets too steep after first.
I don't do that much, and I don't do that during 1st crack, as you can easily stall things out as the beans through the end of 1st crack.
I've got some graphical software coming that I'm going to use to build some HMIs--one of the displays I REALLY want with the hottop is bean mass temperature rate of change. That's the main thing I am calculating in my head as the roast progresses.
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So today I was thinking about the interface board to the Hottop and decided to open it up and see how they did it... as I looked at the design and thought of their website I guessed that they used a 2 board design where all the control was on the keypad board and all the switching was in the other board... I did some measurements and I was correct... the cool part is they use 5 v dc to control the high voltage board... so I connected the milowidget, wrote a little test script and it will control my hottop with no additional circuitry... All I need to do is build a cable to connect the milowidget to the hottop and install a thermocouple or two and bam....
oh crap... forgot about the thermocouple circuit... but that's no big deal at all even for the novice...
Next step is to do the mods and I'll start roasting ;D ;D
photo for those who can't read... >:D
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Oh... forgot to mention here is the pin-out: for model # KN8828
1 - ground
2 - 5 volts (do not connect this to the milowidget)
3 - fan
4 - bean dump
5 - cooling motor
6 - drive motor
7 - heating element
Note that the drive motor must be on for the heating element to turn on...
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Oh... forgot to mention here is the pin-out: for model # KN8828
1 - ground
2 - 5 volts (do not connect this to the milowidget)
3 - fan
4 - bean dump
5 - cooling motor
6 - drive motor
7 - heating element
Note that the drive motor must be on for the heating element to turn on...
Dude! You're spot on to where I wanted to go--use the link to the control board and keep all the board circuitry within the machine intact. Thing is, I think the newer models have a different interface...
Where'd you get the pin-out information--by testing?
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Dude! You're spot on to where I wanted to go--use the link to the control board and keep all the board circuitry within the machine intact. Thing is, I think the newer models have a different interface...
Where'd you get the pin-out information--by testing?
Ground and 5 volts from looking at the board, but the rest by testing.
I suspect the other boards follow a similar pin-out... but maybe different. What is your old board set? I'm sure you could use that for your widget...
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Good news... looks like the newer boards follow the same control wiring... except they add another pin. INT
I haven't figured out what that would be for yet....
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Plus there's an additional wire for the chaff tray protection circuit (Three wires leading to the panel)
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Plus there's an additional wire for the chaff tray protection circuit (Three wires leading to the panel)
Is the chaff tray wire on the older boards?
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Oh... forgot to mention here is the pin-out: for model # KN8828
1 - ground
2 - 5 volts (do not connect this to the milowidget)
3 - fan
4 - bean dump
5 - cooling motor
6 - drive motor
7 - heating element
Note that the drive motor must be on for the heating element to turn on...
That's fantastic info, thank you! Does the HT just use PWM to set the level of the heater? 1 10% duty cycle for lowes, 20% for next up etc.? I would assume the fan is the same way. Is that correct?
I've been meaning to dig into mine to take a look see but haven't really had the time. I'm wondering if the 'INT' pin has something to do with the chaff tray switch...
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Oh... forgot to mention here is the pin-out: for model # KN8828
1 - ground
2 - 5 volts (do not connect this to the milowidget)
3 - fan
4 - bean dump
5 - cooling motor
6 - drive motor
7 - heating element
Note that the drive motor must be on for the heating element to turn on...
That's fantastic info, thank you! Does the HT just use PWM to set the level of the heater? 1 10% duty cycle for lowes, 20% for next up etc.? I would assume the fan is the same way. Is that correct?
I've been meaning to dig into mine to take a look see but haven't really had the time. I'm wondering if the 'INT' pin has something to do with the chaff tray switch...
Mine is an older model so I can only be sure how it works. My plan is to do exactly that set the duty cycle for the fan and heater.
I'm not sure how the B and P do it... If I had one in my grubby little hands I could figure it out... but I don't think I'm going to dish out the $220 for the parts when I can control it with the milowidet using the old "interface board".
If you have a B or a P let me know how they do it.
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Here's a good thread (http://www.home-barista.com/home-roasting/hottop-kn-8828b-power-levels-t7820.html) on the subject. In theory, the P adjusts power as it gets close to the target temperature--I've never seen it shown on the killawatt.
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From the oscilloscope plots I see how Hottop does it... the area under the curve is the power going to the heating element. You can't just drop the voltage easily to reduce to power so you switch the Triac on and off to clip the waveform and reduce the area under the curve. With a Triac it's simple to do... think of a light dimmer.... works the same way except manually with a potentiometer.
The PID should have much better control. The key is learning what the heating element is capable of... (how quickly it can heat the bean mass at 100% and how quickly it changes so you don't overshoot too much or stall.
Should be fun!!
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Good news... looks like the newer boards follow the same control wiring... except they add another pin. INT
I haven't figured out what that would be for yet....
I think the INT is an interrupt they are using to detect the zero-crossing of the AC signal. I believe this is used to fire the Triac, to control the heater (basically it is an input used to trigger the triac so it turns on and off at the right time), which is needed if you want to turn the heater or fan on to 50% or anything other than on or off.
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I did the thermocouple modification that cfsheridan did on his hottop yesterday and did a 12 minute test run (no beans) with the milowidget and hottop to make sure I didn't catch the house on fire... Seems to follow the linear curve just fine.
I plan to roast a batch this afternoon on the hottop... I'm going to see if I can hold the temp at 400 for 2 minutes... just for fun.
I also think I've figured out a simple inexpensive interface that will hold the thermocouple amplifier and make the modification on a hottop very simple. It will also allow for the newer models and the interrupt pin (zero crossing detection).
After today's roast (If all goes well) I plan to work the PID code into the Milowidget and then start working on the users interface.
Should I add an annoying beeper like the hottop has now???
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Should I add an annoying beeper like the hottop has now???
I'd rather have the 'auto-dump' 15 degrees before 1st crack feature :tard:
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Ok, I figured out why they turn the fan on near the end of the roast..... almost hit 3rd crack... When the beans go exothermic just turning of the heater on the Hottop won't slow it down enough, so they turn it on when they think this happens.
Other than going to French the first roast on the Hottop was a success.... held 400 degrees for 1 minute without a stall.
Anyone (Buttwhiskers maybe) know at what temperature this normally happens with coffee?
Edit: I mucked with the code a little and turned the fan on when I got to 430 degrees... but it still didn't help enough... I may have to turn it on sooner.. Also notice the stall at about 240 degrees. This hottop is much harder than the alpenrost to keep a stable temp.
I may try and monitor the heater pin and let the Hottop controller control the roaster and see how they do it.
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Sweet.
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Ok, now that the whole car theft thing is behind me... and the Sumatra distros, I can re-focus on the milowidget.
I have (edit: designed and built) an interface board specifically for the Hottop that has 2 thermocouple amplifier and the correct plug so you can just pull the old control panel off and drop in the milowidget. I did add the interface for the AC detection circuit (INT) so those of you with a more modern Hottop can utilize that functionality... although I have no way to test that part....
I also have acquired a display / button board that plugs onto the milowidget so it's a nice clean package. Now to really focus on the code and profiles. I have some thoughts thanks to Chad on using the ratio of Bean temp to environment temp for the PID loop input.... I hope it works like my gray matter thinks it should.
stay tuned.
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cool...I was hoping this hadn't been shelved. Can't wait to see the progress. :occasion14:
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Has the Sonofresco Milowidget been shelved?
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Has the Sonofresco Milowidget been shelved?
nope, it's just that I still need to roast ;D so I'm planning on using the Hottop as my major development platform.... then once I'm happy with those results.... the Sono is next...
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Ok, now that the whole car theft thing is behind me... and the Sumatra distros, I can re-focus on the milowidget.
I have (edit: designed and built) an interface board specifically for the Hottop that has 2 thermocouple amplifier and the correct plug so you can just pull the old control panel off and drop in the milowidget. I did add the interface for the AC detection circuit (INT) so those of you with a more modern Hottop can utilize that functionality... although I have no way to test that part....
I also have acquired a display / button board that plugs onto the milowidget so it's a nice clean package. Now to really focus on the code and profiles. I have some thoughts thanks to Chad on using the ratio of Bean temp to environment temp for the PID loop input.... I hope it works like my gray matter thinks it should.
stay tuned.
If you need a tester....also, I have some of the components already--and another nice piece of software that may be of interest.
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and another nice piece of software that may be of interest.
I'm interested!!
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Wow! I've been out of the scene for a while, and look what has been going on while I was gone. I read this entire thread in one sitting, and cannot wait to see what happens, especially since I just gutted my HT-P and replaced a good portion of it. If only I could have replaced the control panel with a Milowidget... Let me know when it is time for beta-testing!
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GASP! PLEASE TELL ME THAT'S NOT ONE OF THOSE COFFEE CUPS!!!!! You sir, deserve a good razzing for that!. However, I applaud you on your widget, and appreciate all of your hard work.
(http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5382.0;attach=4745;image)
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How do you guys get your wives to allow you to roast coffee in their kitchen???
Are they out of town or something? ::)
What's your secret, because I must be doing something wrong. ;)
I am lucky to have enough space for an espresso machine, grinder & Chemex maker... :P
All of my roasting gear is out in the shop...
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How do you guys get your wives to allow you to roast coffee in their kitchen???
Are they out of town or something? ::)
What's your secret, because I must be doing something wrong. ;)
The secret is more startling than you're supposing.
His wife is forcing him to do all this. ;D
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How do you guys get your wives to allow you to roast coffee in their kitchen???
Are they out of town or something? ::)
What's your secret, because I must be doing something wrong. ;)
I am lucky to have enough space for an espresso machine, grinder & Chemex maker... :P
All of my roasting gear is out in the shop...
My spouse made me keep the last roaster I bought. A smart man will do anything to keep the wifey happy! 8)
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How do you guys get your wives to allow you to roast coffee in their kitchen???
Are they out of town or something? ::)
What's your secret, because I must be doing something wrong. ;)
I am lucky to have enough space for an espresso machine, grinder & Chemex maker... :P
All of my roasting gear is out in the shop...
I just made my wife an omelet with sauteed baby portabella (sp?) in a simple gravy for my Birthday Breakfast... that kind of treatment pays the rent on the cupboard over the oven and keeps the complaints on the smell of roasting in the pottery studio to a minimum..
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How do you guys get your wives to allow you to roast coffee in their kitchen???
Are they out of town or something? ::)
What's your secret, because I must be doing something wrong. ;)
I am lucky to have enough space for an espresso machine, grinder & Chemex maker... :P
All of my roasting gear is out in the shop...
My method was simple... I told her that if the roaster was in the kitchen then I could spend more time with her instead of being outside or in the basement.... you know multitask.... visit with her while I'm roasting :angel: :angel: :angel:
My espresso machine is not in the kitchen.... it's in the basement.
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My spouse goes on these cleaning spurts, (it involves, Clorox, Lysol, rubber gloves & a Dyson Vac cleaner) all weekend long...
I tried hiding out in my shop, roasting coffee all weekend, but whenever I needed to refill my mug I ended up doing things like moving furniture etc.
If I roasted in her kitchen, I'd be chasing chaff all night. ;)
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My spouse goes on these cleaning spurts, (it involves, Clorox, Lysol, rubber gloves & a Dyson Vac cleaner) all weekend long...
I tried hiding out in my shop, roasting coffee all weekend, but whenever I needed to refill my mug I ended up doing things like moving furniture etc.
If I roasted in her kitchen, I'd be chasing chaff all night. ;)
Hmm... in your case it sounds like you need an electric kettle, pour over, and grinder in the shop :icon_scratch:
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How do you guys get your wives to allow you to roast coffee in their kitchen???
Are they out of town or something? ::)
What's your secret, because I must be doing something wrong. ;)
I am lucky to have enough space for an espresso machine, grinder & Chemex maker... :P
All of my roasting gear is out in the shop...
I just made my wife an omelet with sauteed baby portabella crimini (sp?) in a simple gravy for my Birthday Breakfast... that kind of treatment pays the rent on the cupboard over the oven and keeps the complaints on the smell of roasting in the pottery studio to a minimum..
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My method was simple... I told her that if the roaster was in the kitchen then I could spend more time with her ...
Dusting, mopping, doing dishes...
Manly stuff!
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I just made my wife an omelet with sauteed baby portabella (sp?) in a simple gravy for my Birthday Breakfast... that kind of treatment pays the rent on the cupboard over the oven and keeps the complaints on the smell of roasting in the pottery studio to a minimum..
PW'd!
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Every time the counter is left slightly wet by me after the morning coffee rituals my wife begins her rant .... "Can't you take this setup downstairs?". Meanwhile the kitchen table still has the box she has abandoned with the new Pizzelle machine that she bought and the dining room table has the pasta board and the box that contained the battery operated cake cream dispenser with all it accessories strewn all over it.
:o
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Every time the counter is left slightly wet by me after the morning coffee rituals my wife begins her rant .... "Can't you take this setup downstairs?". Meanwhile the kitchen table still has the box she has abandoned with the new Pizzelle machine that she bought and the dining room table has the pasta board and the box that contained the battery operated cake cream dispenser with all it accessories strewn all over it.
:o
It took me & Henry VIII a few tries, but we finally figured wives out. There's the important stuff, and our stuff that interferes with the important stuff! ::)
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It took me & Henry VIII a few tries, but we finally figured wives out. There's the important stuff, and our stuff that interferes with the important stuff! ::)
Agreed ... but when she wants a cappuccino or two then our stuff gets elevated to important stuff rather quickly.
;D
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It took me & Henry VIII a few tries, but we finally figured wives out. There's the important stuff, and our stuff that interferes with the important stuff! ::)
Agreed ... but when she wants a cappuccino or two then our stuff gets elevated to important stuff rather quickly.
;D
Nah, my wife asks if I'd make her a cap or would I prefer that she run over to Starbuck's to get one. She's actually doing me a favor by letting me use the espresso machine. Wives are wickedly crafty!
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I just made my wife an omelet with sauteed baby portabella (sp?) in a simple gravy for my Birthday Breakfast... that kind of treatment pays the rent on the cupboard over the oven and keeps the complaints on the smell of roasting in the pottery studio to a minimum..
PW'd!
You think so?!?!? It takes a REAL man to love his wife unconditionally Ephesians 5:25 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=56&chapter=5&verse=25&version=47;65)
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Mrs. Milowebailey does occasionally mention chaff.... I remind her that chaff is a product of coffee roasting and ask her if she likes fresh roasted coffee....she will nod to my logic and then tell me to clean up the chaff ;D She's pretty reasonable about the whole thing.
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Mrs. Milowebailey does occasionally mention chaff.... I remind her that chaff is a product of coffee roasting and ask her if she likes fresh roasted coffee....she will nod to my logic and then tell me to clean up the chaff ;D She's pretty reasonable about the whole thing.
Sounds just like Mrs. T, very reasonable as long as I do what she tells me to do, when she tells me to do it! It must be a love match; why else would she put up with the likes of me?
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Mrs. Milowebailey does occasionally mention chaff.... I remind her that chaff is a product of coffee roasting and ask her if she likes fresh roasted coffee....she will nod to my logic and then tell me to clean up the chaff ;D She's pretty reasonable about the whole thing.
And now I return the 'borrowed' thread with:
Hey Larry, how close are you to fixing the control panel whatchamacallit for the hotttop?
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And now I return the 'borrowed' thread with:
Hey Larry, how close are you to fixing the control panel whatchamacallit for the hotttop?
Not till you tell us where you're wife lets you keep the coffee equipment.
:)
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And now I return the 'borrowed' thread with:
Hey Larry, how close are you to fixing the control panel whatchamacallit for the hotttop?
Not till you tell us where you're wife lets you keep the coffee equipment.
:)
Or hid those li'l dangly things real men usually have? :o
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And now I return the 'borrowed' thread with:
Hey Larry, how close are you to fixing the control panel whatchamacallit for the hotttop?
Not till you tell us where you're wife lets you keep the coffee equipment.
:)
MP you would make a bad spy, the answer was on my googlepages;
see the last picture: http://garybt3.googlepages.com/icestormdec07 (http://garybt3.googlepages.com/icestormdec07)
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MP you would make a bad spy, the answer was on my googlepages;
see the last picture: [url]http://garybt3.googlepages.com/icestormdec07[/url] ([url]http://garybt3.googlepages.com/icestormdec07[/url])
You're right ... never much good at spying. It would seem that you are the most fortunate amongst us. You have way more coffee stuff all over the kitchen counter tops than anyone I know. You must have a way of dealing with your wife ... care to let us in on the secret?
:)
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I had to get her hooked on Cappo's. :o
I started out with a Rocky & Gaggia Espresso machine, that was not too big.
I upgraded to a Livia a few months later...
Actually...the power was out for a week, so it was a free for all in the kitchen area...I had coolers on the front porch & we grilled everything as quickly as we could. I ended up buying a kick-ass Yamaha contractor grade generator that will power a 220volt 2 group espresso machine, grinder, mini fridge, blender and lights all at the same time ;D
Yeah, think of it as an investment, if this ever happens again, we are prepared :P
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I had to get her hooked on Cappo's. :o
I got my wife hooked on cappucinnos ... but not nearly with the same results you have. I think I need to get some cappuccino making lessons from you.
:)
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I had to get her hooked on Cappo's. :o
I started out with a Rocky & Gaggia Espresso machine, that was not too big.
I upgraded to a Livia a few months later...
Actually...the power was out for a week, so it was a free for all in the kitchen area...I had coolers on the front porch & we grilled everything as quickly as we could. I ended up buying a kick-ass Yamaha contractor grade generator that will power a 220volt 2 group espresso machine, grinder, mini fridge, blender and lights all at the same time ;D
Yeah, think of it as an investment, if this ever happens again, we are prepared :P
Has she tried consiglieres yet? ;)
Between the ice storms to the north and the hurricanes in the Gulf, I think I'll move my investments into generator companies!
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I had to get her hooked on Cappo's. :o
I started out with a Rocky & Gaggia Espresso machine, that was not too big.
I upgraded to a Livia a few months later...
Actually...the power was out for a week, so it was a free for all in the kitchen area...I had coolers on the front porch & we grilled everything as quickly as we could. I ended up buying a kick-ass Yamaha contractor grade generator that will power a 220volt 2 group espresso machine, grinder, mini fridge, blender and lights all at the same time ;D
Yeah, think of it as an investment, if this ever happens again, we are prepared :P
Has she tried consiglieres yet? ;)
Between the ice storms to the north and the hurricanes in the Gulf, I think I'll move my investments into generator companies!
a quick google netted me:
In the American Mafia, consigliere is the number two position in a crime family, the don's right-hand man. The position is equal in prestige to underboss, but not nearly as well understood. The terminology is taken from the Sicilian Mafia and suggests that an analogy is intended to the court of a medieval Italian principality. In this analogy, an underboss is equivalent to an heir to the throne, someone the don is grooming as a successor and possibly a blood relative. Consigliere, meanwhile, is equivalent to chief minister or chancellor, a position awarded on the basis of qualifications rather than bloodline.
??? I still don't know what it is, Tex, I'm livin' in Kansas, we don't get that stuff around these here parts ;D
It's time for me to hit the highway and head due west for 12.6 miles.
(I'm going home)
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Back on topic here.... geezzzze the little lambs do stray....
I worked on the milowidget a little last night. Last week nothing because I worked a 74 hour week.... yawn...
I have an issue with my second thermocouple input... I'm sure with a fresh look I'll figure that out in about 1 minute... but I mucked with it for over an hour last night, then it's pretty much plugging it in and tweaking the code
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Back on topic here.... geezzzze the little lambs do stray....
I worked on the milowidget a little last night. Last week nothing because I worked a 74 hour week.... yawn...
I have an issue with my second thermocouple input... I'm sure with a fresh look I'll figure that out in about 1 minute... but I mucked with it for over an hour last night, then it's pretty much plugging it in and tweaking the code
Good job Milo ... can't wait to see you getting it up and working 100%.
:)
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I worked on the Milowidget tonight. And made some good progress.
1) I modified my Hottop and added a second thermocouple (thanks Chad for the wisdom there)
2) Fixed the interface board so that both thermocouples now read into the milowidget
3) Did some testing and all the functions in the milowidget control all the hottop motors, fans and heater. (although through a programming oversight (can't use digital inputs 0 and 1 if using the USB port... they are alway 5 volts) I fried my thermal switch (Pooooof), so I bypassed it) >:D >:D... so I'll order a new one. Problem was the heater never shut off and the Hottop got too hot. Thermal fuse is a good thing really.
I need to do a few more tweaks and put the poor hottop back together, then I'll post some photos.
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Thanks for the update Milo ... a minor set back but sounds like you are almost there. Look forward to your pictures and your offerings in terms of roaster mods.
:)
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This is, as my other half says, "radicool". Can't wait to hear more and see the pics! I'm hoping this translates somewhat easily to the Sonofresco as well.
I just found out about a new corporate discount we're getting through work for stuff at Grainger that I'm itching to try out. 8)
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This is, as my other half says, "radicool". Can't wait to hear more and see the pics! I'm hoping this translates somewhat easily to the Sonofresco as well.
I just found out about a new corporate discount we're getting through work for stuff at Grainger that I'm itching to try out. 8)
Do I smell a group buy opportunity?
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Hey, Milo- what an incredible project! I've been busy moving to South Carolina from Arizona, so I haven't had the time to read much of the stuff below all the coffee buying forums (never want to miss out on good green!). Anyway, I couldn't see where you've found a solution to controlling the heat from 1st crack. Over the years, I've noticed the toughest thing in monitoring roast profiles is placement of the probe, and I think everybody commenting in most coffee forums (coffeegeek, home-barista and here) report slightly different temps (varying by as much as 20 deg F). I think that's owing to the type of technology they're using (maybe roast batch size as well). I use J-type TC's in my sample roaster (US Roaster Corp) and a datalogger from Picotech, and typically start to hear 1st crack around 380-390 deg F on the bean mass probe (the only one I log), and start dialing down the flame there.
Interesting project-- makes me want to go back to school just to learn the acronyms and neat electronic doo-dads!
Ray
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A quick update. I worked on the code a little over the weekend. I'm hoping to spend some time on it this weekend too. I plan to grab some plots with both thermocouples and roast a little with it.
Here are a few photos of the Milowidget connected to the hottop... with the new interface board.
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Just curious, does Michael at Hottop USA know about this project? Would HT be interested in supporting you in any way? I should think this has the possibility of a new Super-HT!!! Very exciting.
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Looks good Milo ... can't wait to hear your test runs with this.
:)
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Tinkering some more.... here is a profile with:
5 minute - 150 degree pre-heat
9 minute ramp to 350
5 more to 400
7 more to 440
The red line is bean temp (which is my current control point)
Note: - I think I may have a flaky thermocouple... note the jagged line.... I'm shopping for new type of thermocouples.
The Green line is the environment temp near the heat coil (I plan to use this later)
This plot is with no beans in the roaster, just controlling heat.
So far, so good.
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Milo, do you have any profiles graphed for the different programs in the Sonofresco? I usually use #3 or #4, but I'm just guessing - I'd like something that lets me stretch the time between 1st & 2nd crack.
???
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Milo, do you have any profiles graphed for the different programs in the Sonofresco? I usually use #3 or #4, but I'm just guessing - I'd like something that lets me stretch the time between 1st & 2nd crack.
???
I think the profiles are pretty much the same it's just the finish temperature that changes...I don't think they stretch anything. I plan to measure all of them before I mess with programming the sono.
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fire in the hole......
man, something is amiss in my thermocouples.... not only is one of them reading erratic, I don't believe the temp measurements.
I put 250 grams of green in at 230 pre-heat and hit 1st crack at 328??? 2nd at 360.... It almost seems as if these thermocouples are off by ~80 degrees?? But at room temp they seem to be on the money. They are bead type and I'm wondering if I should be using something different...
They are supposed to be K type... I wonder if they are something else?
Any ideas?
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fire in the hole......
man, something is amiss in my thermocouples.... not only is one of them reading erratic, I don't believe the temp measurements.
I put 250 grams of green in at 230 pre-heat and hit 1st crack at 328??? 2nd at 360.... It almost seems as if these thermocouples are off by ~80 degrees?? But at room temp they seem to be on the money. They are bead type and I'm wondering if I should be using something different...
They are supposed to be K type... I wonder if they are something else?
Any ideas?
doh!
Just figured it out... it's my thermocouple amps.... I bought 2 for some J type thermocouple I had laying around.... I'll have to either change the thermocouples or see if I have any more k type amps around...
I knew there was a simple answer...
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Larry,
You'll want more preheat. In my manual control mode for the HT, I charge between 325-400°F Environment Temp, depending on the bean and intended profile.
I'll do a little digging, I know some folks have put a PID on the heater element--I cannot recall whether they use ET or BT for the control.
From the HT profiling work I've seen, focus points have been--drying time (bright yellow beans by 300 °F), ramp to 1st crack, and post 1st crack. Lots of discussion on the ET (or Max ET) difference with BT as these ramps evolve--thought being keep the differential minimized while keeping good timing on the progression of the roast.
Then you can add the thought of a "pause" in the ramp to 1st to maximize the time from 350-370°F as BW recommends and performs with his Turbocrazy. You may want to do more experimenting with BT vs. ET as the control input.
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Milo, do you have any profiles graphed for the different programs in the Sonofresco? I usually use #3 or #4, but I'm just guessing - I'd like something that lets me stretch the time between 1st & 2nd crack.
???
I think the profiles are pretty much the same it's just the finish temperature that changes...I don't think they stretch anything. I plan to measure all of them before I mess with programming the sono.
Dammit, don't tell me that!
I tried shutting down the gas for my last roast when it hit 1st crack and turned it back on as it coasted through it. But of course, shutting off the gas seems to have interrupted the program. It wouldn't restart the program where it left off, so I ended up with some very lightly roasted beans!
-
Milo, do you have any profiles graphed for the different programs in the Sonofresco? I usually use #3 or #4, but I'm just guessing - I'd like something that lets me stretch the time between 1st & 2nd crack.
???
I think the profiles are pretty much the same it's just the finish temperature that changes...I don't think they stretch anything. I plan to measure all of them before I mess with programming the sono.
Dammit, don't tell me that!
I tried shutting down the gas for my last roast when it hit 1st crack and turned it back on as it coasted through it. But of course, shutting off the gas seems to have interrupted the program. It wouldn't restart the program where it left off, so I ended up with some very lightly roasted beans!
The problem with the sono controller is if the temp doesn't stay up with the pre-programmed profile it will assume that you just ran out of gas and kick into the cooling cycle..... that's why you NEED a milowidget or you can always just send me MY sonofresco ;D
I'll try and measure/plot all the profiles over the next few weeks using one of my milowidgets... then we'll all know the secret.
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fire in the hole......
man, something is amiss in my thermocouples.... not only is one of them reading erratic, I don't believe the temp measurements.
I put 250 grams of green in at 230 pre-heat and hit 1st crack at 328??? 2nd at 360.... It almost seems as if these thermocouples are off by ~80 degrees?? But at room temp they seem to be on the money. They are bead type and I'm wondering if I should be using something different...
They are supposed to be K type... I wonder if they are something else?
Any ideas?
Did you use a pot of boiling distilled water to calibrate your equipment or some other method? Someone told me that different controllers had different scaling as temps increased. The CAL Controls has a near-linear scale whereas the Watlow controllers had a curved scale.
I wonder how your controller handles a climb from 32° to 212°?
Where's you get the t/c's? I buy all of mine from Omega.
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Larry,
You'll want more preheat. In my manual control mode for the HT, I charge between 325-400°F Environment Temp, depending on the bean and intended profile.
I'll do a little digging, I know some folks have put a PID on the heater element--I cannot recall whether they use ET or BT for the control.
From the HT profiling work I've seen, focus points have been--drying time (bright yellow beans by 300 °F), ramp to 1st crack, and post 1st crack. Lots of discussion on the ET (or Max ET) difference with BT as these ramps evolve--thought being keep the differential minimized while keeping good timing on the progression of the roast.
Then you can add the thought of a "pause" in the ramp to 1st to maximize the time from 350-370°F as BW recommends and performs with his Turbocrazy. You may want to do more experimenting with BT vs. ET as the control input.
Chad
That's my plan. from what I saw before as you reach exothermic heat, the bean temp may run away or overshoot. I want to see what the norm is.
Easy with milowidget to streach the roast from 350 - 370, just program the time... then I'll figure when and how fast to turn on the fan
All that once I get the right thermocouple amps in there.... geeze... I must have been napping or bidding on a logo when I put those chips in.... but the wise Milowebailey uses sockets... so changing the chips will take me... 30 seconds ;D
Time to quit for tonight though... Mrs. Milowbailey is calling the Milowidget "the other woman".... yikes.
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Did you use a pot of boiling distilled water to calibrate your equipment or some other method? Someone told me that different controllers had different scaling as temps increased. The CAL Controls has a near-linear scale whereas the Watlow controllers had a curved scale.
I wonder how your controller handles a climb from 32° to 212°?
Where's you get the t/c's? I buy all of mine from Omega.
Nope the thermocouple amps compensate for the type of thermocouple used.... I was using K type thermocouple with J type amps....
I bought the thermocouples off ebay... 10 for $25.... for the development I didn't want to spend big bucks on them.
The J type I have are really nice ones, but I may move away from a bead to a thread-in grounded type.... can't decide yet. I may play with both to see which is better.
-
Milo, do you have any profiles graphed for the different programs in the Sonofresco? I usually use #3 or #4, but I'm just guessing - I'd like something that lets me stretch the time between 1st & 2nd crack.
???
I think the profiles are pretty much the same it's just the finish temperature that changes...I don't think they stretch anything. I plan to measure all of them before I mess with programming the sono.
Dammit, don't tell me that!
I tried shutting down the gas for my last roast when it hit 1st crack and turned it back on as it coasted through it. But of course, shutting off the gas seems to have interrupted the program. It wouldn't restart the program where it left off, so I ended up with some very lightly roasted beans!
The problem with the sono controller is if the temp doesn't stay up with the pre-programmed profile it will assume that you just ran out of gas and kick into the cooling cycle..... that's why you NEED a milowidget or you can always just send me MY sonofresco ;D
I'll try and measure/plot all the profiles over the next few weeks using one of my milowidgets... then we'll all know the secret.
I figured that out as my beans were cooling down from a very light City roast. The Sonofresco is basically a more expensive version of the Behmor - no control over the roast profiles at all.
I even thought of adding some ceramic beads that are ~the size of beans - hoping than they'd cool the bean mass down enough to let them coast for a while. But there's no easy way to get into the roast chamber during a roast without the chaff flying about everywhere!
It's a poor trade off between ease of use and ease of tailoring the roast. The UFO/CO is looking pretty good right now!
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Milo, do you have any profiles graphed for the different programs in the Sonofresco? I usually use #3 or #4, but I'm just guessing - I'd like something that lets me stretch the time between 1st & 2nd crack.
???
I think the profiles are pretty much the same it's just the finish temperature that changes...I don't think they stretch anything. I plan to measure all of them before I mess with programming the sono.
Dammit, don't tell me that!
I tried shutting down the gas for my last roast when it hit 1st crack and turned it back on as it coasted through it. But of course, shutting off the gas seems to have interrupted the program. It wouldn't restart the program where it left off, so I ended up with some very lightly roasted beans!
The problem with the sono controller is if the temp doesn't stay up with the pre-programmed profile it will assume that you just ran out of gas and kick into the cooling cycle..... that's why you NEED a milowidget or you can always just send me MY sonofresco ;D
I'll try and measure/plot all the profiles over the next few weeks using one of my milowidgets... then we'll all know the secret.
I figured that out as my beans were cooling down from a very light City roast. The Sonofresco is basically a more expensive version of the Behmor - no control over the roast profiles at all.
I even thought of adding some ceramic beads that are ~the size of beans - hoping than they'd cool the bean mass down enough to let them coast for a while. But there's no easy way to get into the roast chamber during a roast without the chaff flying about everywhere!
It's a poor trade off between ease of use and ease of tailoring the roast. The UFO/CO is looking pretty good right now!
You still have my shipping address for the sono? ;D ;D ;D
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Did you use a pot of boiling distilled water to calibrate your equipment or some other method? Someone told me that different controllers had different scaling as temps increased. The CAL Controls has a near-linear scale whereas the Watlow controllers had a curved scale.
I wonder how your controller handles a climb from 32° to 212°?
Where's you get the t/c's? I buy all of mine from Omega.
Nope the thermocouple amps compensate for the type of thermocouple used.... I was using K type thermocouple with J type amps....
I bought the thermocouples off ebay... 10 for $25.... for the development I didn't want to spend big bucks on them.
The J type I have are really nice ones, but I may move away from a bead to a thread-in grounded type.... can't decide yet. I may play with both to see which is better.
I really like the ungrounded s/s sheathed probes (especially the 12" Teflon-coated ones I have - but they're type T); figuring the ungrounded t/c probe gives me a bit of buffer against the sudden rise in temps whenever the burner kicks in.
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It's a poor trade off between ease of use and ease of tailoring the roast. The UFO/CO is looking pretty good right now!
You still have my shipping address for the sono? ;D ;D ;D
Sorry dude, my shipping company doesn't deliver to South Vancouver, BC. Now if you were in the U.S. it might be doable. ;D
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Sorry dude, my shipping company doesn't deliver to South Vancouver, BC. Now if you were in the U.S. it might be doable. ;D
I'll drive across the boarder
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Sorry dude, my shipping company doesn't deliver to South Vancouver, BC. Now if you were in the U.S. it might be doable. ;D
I'll drive across the boarder
Not 'til you get over the flu my wife gave us. You'd be quarantined at GITMO.
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Nope the thermocouple amps compensate for the type of thermocouple used.... I was using K type thermocouple with J type amps....
I bought the thermocouples off ebay... 10 for $25.... for the development I didn't want to spend big bucks on them.
The J type I have are really nice ones, but I may move away from a bead to a thread-in grounded type.... can't decide yet. I may play with both to see which is better.
I'm guessing the reading of either TC is nearly instantaneous, but from last graph it looks like there's a 20 deg F swing in temps-- is that right? It looks like the PID is working since each peak looks only seconds from the previous one, but is that a healthy roast curve?
Ray
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Nope the thermocouple amps compensate for the type of thermocouple used.... I was using K type thermocouple with J type amps....
I bought the thermocouples off ebay... 10 for $25.... for the development I didn't want to spend big bucks on them.
The J type I have are really nice ones, but I may move away from a bead to a thread-in grounded type.... can't decide yet. I may play with both to see which is better.
I'm guessing the reading of either TC is nearly instantaneous, but from last graph it looks like there's a 20 deg F swing in temps-- is that right? It looks like the PID is working since each peak looks only seconds from the previous one, but is that a healthy roast curve?
Ray
It's about a 10 degree swing and it does that somewhat at room temperature too. We'll see what the correct thermocouple amps do. I still suspect one of the thermocouples too. I suppose I got what I paid for... :-\
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It's a poor trade off between ease of use and ease of tailoring the roast. The UFO/CO is looking pretty good right now!
You still have my shipping address for the sono? ;D ;D ;D
Sorry dude, my shipping company doesn't deliver to South Vancouver, BC. Now if you were in the U.S. it might be doable. ;D
You could always let it stay in TX...I could be at an airport local to you in ~2 hours ;D
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Update on the milowidget
Here are a couple of plots from weekend testing of the milowidget on the hottop. All I am doing right now is turning heat on and off once per second depending on the bean temp vs the profile.... simplest method so far.
The 1st plot is of the first roast with 250 grams of green. Note how good the ramp is and how closely the bean temp followed the profile, once it caught up with the curve.
The 2nd plot is of a roast of about ~75 grams of green. I want to be able to control the curve no matter the green I put in (within reason of course). With the smaller bean mass there is temperature overshoot both directions. Also not how extreme the environment temp goes up and down too. This is where the PID control will come in... now just to implement that in code..... that and a few small glitches in code here and there.... safety code (so the thing doesn't burn up)...
Also found out that once the hottop warms up, it's more difficult to keep it on temp... odd, but I think that's because it's hard to cool it off quickly. I'll need to tinker also with the fan and see how that affects the curves too.
If only I didn't have a day job to distract me from my work :P
On a side note, my temp swing (see plots from a few posts earlier), I found out, is coming from serial port noise on my interface board..when my laptop is plugged in... unplugged the reading is stable (note difference from plots a week ago). I may need more shielding on the interface board or may have to move the thermocouple connector away from the serial port terminals. Also the temp spikes are real readings also probably some sort of interference. The thermocouple voltages are very very small so any higher voltage near them can cause spikes. Looks like I'll need to enlarge my ground plane near the thermocouple inputs to the amplifiers.
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Thank you for the update Milo. Good work ... I bet you are learning a lot.
If the Hottop is having problems cooling down I guess that would mean the heat retention properties are working too well. You think a fan would cool it down to the degree that you would like?
:)
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Hey Milo ... haven't heard anything on the Milowewidget for a while. Are you nearing the point to start putting out kits for interfacing the Milowewidget to roasters espresso machines?
There is so much potential in your device.
:)
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Not to worry my friend. I've been schooling myself in PID control. The engineer must understand the math before he can add it.
An espresso machine would be cake.... one temperature to keep constant...
Now with the roaster, ya got fans, dampers, drive motor (those are pretty easy) but the tricky part is the variable mass... I could easily tweek the code for an exact amount of green.... but the tricky part is when the mass changes (gets really small)....
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I could easily tweek the code for an exact amount of green.... but the tricky part is when the mass changes (gets really small)....
Hmm ... so you would need something like a camera that can withstand temperature highs to the 600 degrees Fahrenheit? Does the weight of the bean become affected with the mass change?
Hmm ... many interesting questions to be asked.
:)
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I'm sure it does, how much, that's the question.
With and espresso machine, you have a fixed amount of water you are trying to keep hot.... some leaves the boiler and is replace with cold water.... ya predict the change and monitor as you get close to temp and slowly turn off the heat.... easy.
with a roaster you have a moving temperuature, and a bean mass that is getting smaller, and is variable in wieght anyway (say you want to roast a 1/4 lb of Kopi Luwak... then jump to a full 1.4 lb of colombian.... from a control standpoint you cannot treat them the same. I could probably have enter the wight but different density, water content of the bean would ruin that concept.
So in comes feed back from both environmental and bean temp. I'm learning with the hottop that turning on the fan increases bean temp if environmental temp is high compared to the setpoint... kind of like a heatgun or convection oven...
it's very fun learning all these things
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Milo ... that is very interesting.
So you got the basic concept of the machine working right ... but now you just need to learn more about the characteristics of the beans so that someone could use the prototype Colombian and you would make adjustments to the program factoring weight and mass variables as well as the most desirable roast profile befitting that bean?
:)
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* BUMP *
No news is good news about the Milowidget?
*nudge, nudge*
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* BUMP *
No news is good news about the Milowidget?
*nudge, nudge*
I think someone is too busy with the new "love" in their life. ;) (A certain girl named Ambex!)
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* BUMP *
No news is good news about the Milowidget?
*nudge, nudge*
I think someone is too busy with the new "love" in their life. ;) (A certain girl named Ambex!)
Ambex dumped me for Diedrich... long story, but Ambex may be next year's prom date... :P
I've been a bit occupied crabbing... short season and so many crabs
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Ambex dumped me for Diedrich... long story, but Ambex may be next year's prom date... :P
I've been a bit occupied crabbing... short season and so many crabs
Careful ... or we'll have to refer to you as Crabby Milo.
;D
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* BUMP *
No news is good news about the Milowidget?
*nudge, nudge*
I think someone is too busy with the new "love" in their life. ;) (A certain girl named Ambex!)
Ambex dumped me for Diedrich... long story, but Ambex may be next year's prom date... :P
I've been a bit occupied crabbing... short season and so many crabs
I caught crabs once on a business trip to New Jersey. Had a hell of a time explaining that one to the 2nd Mrs T! When did they put a season on that? ;D
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* BUMP *
No news is good news about the Milowidget?
*nudge, nudge*
I think someone is too busy with the new "love" in their life. ;) (A certain girl named Ambex!)
Ambex dumped me for Diedrich... long story, but Ambex may be next year's prom date... :P
I've been a bit occupied crabbing... short season and so many crabs
I caught crabs once on a business trip to New Jersey. Had a hell of a time explaining that one to the 2nd Mrs T! When did they put a season on that? ;D
not only a season, but a 5 crab limit... get caught with more than that and it's $150 fine for each one and they take your equipment..... ouch!!!
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not only a season, but a 5 crab limit... get caught with more than that and it's $150 fine for each one and they take your equipment..... ouch!!!
I must've had millions of the little thingies! And the 2nd Mrs T threatened to take my equipment too, ala Elaina Bobbit. :o
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I must've had millions of the little thingies! And the 2nd Mrs T threatened to take my equipment too, ala Elaina Bobbit. :o
:o
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not only a season, but a 5 crab limit... get caught with more than that and it's $150 fine for each one and they take your equipment..... ouch!!!
I must've had millions of the little thingies! And the 2nd Mrs T threatened to take my equipment too, ala Elaina Bobbit. :o
that's cuz you were over your limit.... did she get $150 fine for each one too?
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not only a season, but a 5 crab limit... get caught with more than that and it's $150 fine for each one and they take your equipment..... ouch!!!
I must've had millions of the little thingies! And the 2nd Mrs T threatened to take my equipment too, ala Elaina Bobbit. :o
that's cuz you were over your limit.... did she get $150 fine for each one too?
Oh, she got at least that much in the divorce settlement. But the judge wouldn't let her have my equipment, not matter how hard her attorney tried to get them. ::)
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I'm now the proud owner of the 2 pounder propane model! Woohoo!
Now, about that widget... ;D
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I'm now the proud owner of the 2 pounder propane model! Woohoo!
Now, about that widget... ;D
Sonofresco? Congrats! Did you buy it factory direct or used? Looking forward to hearing about your experiences after you've used it awhile.
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Hey milowe, I know you've probably long since moved on and are probably occupied with the Ambex these days but I was wondering how far you got with controlling the Hottop. I finally got around to interfacing with the control board on my "B" this weekend and I had a couple of quick questions for you or anyone else who's played with this thing before... first, any luck finding any info or figuring out how to use the INT pin on the newer boards? Also, what PWM period are you using to drive the heater and fans? I'm not sure what the optimal periods are but I'm currently using two seconds and 100ms, respectively. Anything too much over 100ms for the fan and it starts to get choppy... but even at 100ms, there's still a very, very slight choppiness that's not present when driven from the stock controller so I know there's probably a more optimal period (maybe related to the fan rpm or something?). The heater seems to be pretty even/controllable at two seconds. Are you doing PWM through code or does the Arduino board have that built-in (I think I remember reading something about that in the specs on one of the boards)?
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Hey milowe, I know you've probably long since moved on and are probably occupied with the Ambex these days but I was wondering how far you got with controlling the Hottop. I finally got around to interfacing with the control board on my "B" this weekend and I had a couple of quick questions for you or anyone else who's played with this thing before... first, any luck finding any info or figuring out how to use the INT pin on the newer boards? Also, what PWM period are you using to drive the heater and fans? I'm not sure what the optimal periods are but I'm currently using two seconds and 100ms, respectively. Anything too much over 100ms for the fan and it starts to get choppy... but even at 100ms, there's still a very, very slight choppiness that's not present when driven from the stock controller so I know there's probably a more optimal period (maybe related to the fan rpm or something?). The heater seems to be pretty even/controllable at two seconds. Are you doing PWM through code or does the Arduino board have that built-in (I think I remember reading something about that in the specs on one of the boards)?
I haven't given up yet. Still plan to implement it on the Hottop 1st and then the Ambex ;D
The INT on the hottop board is the "interval" (aka a signal that will allow you to trigger on the AC frequency (60 hz)). It's a zero crossing decector. If you use that you can write code to look at that analog imput and trigger the output to the fan you can control the speed of the fan. You do that by clipping the sine wave vs turning it on and off, but you have to monitor the AC to trigger the logic that clips the sine wave. That's how hottop does it in the newer machines.
The heater I turn on or off by monitoring the thermocouple temp.. my monitor frequency is 1 second and I wrote the code for it that if the temp is above my profile... heater off if below my profile heater on. I calculate the profile based on start temp and final temp vs time.
This website (http://www.andrewkilpatrick.org/blog/?page_id=445) describes the fan control theory
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Ok, so let me see if I understand... in a nutshell, you clip the sine wave by employing a 60hz-based PWM period (16.67ms) in which the 'off duty' cycle begins on the zero cross boundary, which is indicated by a distinguished INT input value/range? Do I have that right? If so, I may have to explore hw alternatives as it will be almost impossible to achieve the necessary timing in my non-realtime, software-only setup (I've got 10ms timing granularity to work with under the best of conditions).
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Actually, judging by the waveforms in this thread (http://www.home-barista.com/home-roasting/hottop-kn-8828b-power-levels-t7820.html), the PWM period would be based on 120hz if the approach I'm thinking of is correct. Doh.
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John
Look at this thread (http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1230333861) too... it will tell you what you need to do. An AC fan will act as a light from a control standpoint.
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Great working example - much appreciated. :) It works pretty much as I was thinking, which means I'll either have to write a kernel mode driver or interface with another board (maybe an Arduino) to do the high-precision timing stuff. Hey... then again, maybe I'll dust off my copy of DOS and write a VGA version of the roast controller in Turbo C... I wonder if there's a DOS driver for my Phidget I/O board... :P
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Ok, so let me see if I understand... in a nutshell, you clip the sine wave by employing a 60hz-based PWM period (16.67ms) in which the 'off duty' cycle begins on the zero cross boundary, which is indicated by a distinguished INT input value/range? Do I have that right? If so, I may have to explore hw alternatives as it will be almost impossible to achieve the necessary timing in my non-realtime, software-only setup (I've got 10ms timing granularity to work with under the best of conditions).
What the heck ??? ???
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Sorry, I have a tendency to be terse... PWM=Pulse Width Modulation is (in this context anyway) just a fancy term for a technique that's used to flip a digital switch on and off in order to drive some analog device (like a heating element or a fan) at less than 100% output. Terms and details vary but the basic idea is that you have some fixed time period that is broken up into two parts: an 'on duty' cycle and an 'off duty' cycle. During the on duty cycle (or just 'duty cycle'), the digital switch that controls the analog device is ON and during the off duty cycle, the switch is OFF. If we want to average 60% power over a 10 second period using this technique, for example, we'd just use a 6 second duty cycle (10 seconds * 60%) - the switch would be on for 6 seconds, off for [the remaining] 4 seconds, then back on for 6 seconds, and so on.
The period used is selected based on the device you're trying to control. Generally, the more slowly a device reacts to the input, the longer the period should be - heating elements, in particular, are notorious for taking a relatively long time to heat up and cool down (thermal inertia) and PWM periods on the order of seconds are usually appropriate.
Naturally, there's always a better way to skin a cat (is there really a bad way?) and that's where zero cross detection apparently comes into the story. It turns out that some analog devices react badly (or at least perform sub-optimally) to being switched on/off at arbitrary points in the AC cycle, as is necessarily the case with the simple PWM technique whose period/duty cycle is independent/ignorant of the AC signal powering the analog device. By anchoring the period/duty cycle to the moment in time when the AC signal is 0V (zero cross), the analog device can be switched on/off in a more optimal/appropriate/phase aware manner for that particular device.
Let's say that you're a resistance heating element and you do your best work near the positive and negative peaks of your power signal but while your power signal is near zero volts, eh not so much. Using PWM+zero cross, the logic driving you can be mindful of the phase of your power signal and switch you on during the most 'productive' portion of the cycle, while switching you off during the least productive portion. Now you're a happy and efficient heating element, rather than one that's being turned completely off for four seconds at a time and causing coffee beans to put on little parkas.
Hopefully someone will correct me if any of this over-simplified, narrow-perspective description is wrong... I'm just a hobbyist at best with the electronics stuff, my area is primarily software.
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Me thinks North Korea has a job opening for you.....
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??? ??? I put it through GOOGLE TRANSLATOR and it couldn't make heads or tails of it either. ;D
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??? ??? I put it through GOOGLE TRANSLATOR and it couldn't make heads or tails of it either. ;D
Through the milowebailey translator it says that if you can syncronize on the AC current you can control the speed of the fan by turning off part of the AC and limiting the power to the fan instead of just turning it on and off really fast.
JohnR
thanks for the above posts!! I'd like to see photos of your setup!
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NOTE: I moded my message to reflect reality from my readings ... it's now alsmost 6AM and didn't sleep yet!
I went on the sourceforge and didn't find much information to interface a Hottop with this board as well as schematic. Note that I have a B model and I read about the controlling of the heating element different than the older models.
Are you soon planning to release notes on your kit?
I'd love to contribute to this project, I've done programmation for many years so I might be able to help, I've done electronics but not enough to safely create the PCB and interconnect everything together. I'm missing knowledge to do everything myself without perhaps frying a few things. Now that I've been doing C programmation since years, I guess I can somehow help.
All I'm asking to jump in this project is the schematic + how to use/implement the latest source code. From there, I'll order the parts and jump in the code!
If you don't mind, PM me your number and I'll call you (or I'll PM your mine). After all the readings that I did, I'm positive with a short conversation I can get a clear picture of what I need to jumpstart!
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Good news folks!
The milowidget is alive... very alive.
baylanger (fellow GCBCer) is a software programmer.... we are planning the completion of the milowidget. He's going to work the software and I'm going to work the hardware.
first version will be for the Hottop
2nd for either the sonofresco and/or Ambex
3rd SC/TO an other popcorn poppers (I have to get some to toy with).
stay tuned!!
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Good news folks!
The milowidget is alive... very alive.
baylanger (fellow GCBCer) is a software programmer.... we are planning the completion of the milowidget. He's going to work the software and I'm going to work the hardware.
first version will be for the Hottop
2nd for either the sonofresco and/or Ambex
3rd SC/TO an other popcorn poppers (I have to get some to toy with).
stay tuned!!
First in line for Sonofresco beta testing!! :icon_salut:
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Good news folks!
The milowidget is alive... very alive.
baylanger (fellow GCBCer) is a software programmer.... we are planning the completion of the milowidget. He's going to work the software and I'm going to work the hardware.
first version will be for the Hottop
2nd for either the sonofresco and/or Ambex
3rd SC/TO an other popcorn poppers (I have to get some to toy with).
stay tuned!!
I am very excited! The more I use my HT-P, the less confident I am in my profile programming. It seems to be hit and miss. The ability to "design" and "control" the profile is enticing!
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...and the idea of having control over the Sonofresco would finallly vault it into the realm of a "legit" roaster. On my wish list: an "on/off" ability to use the pre-programmed profile/roast levels or bypass them. Of course If given a choice any control is better than none...
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...and the idea of having control over the Sonofresco would finallly vault it into the realm of a "legit" roaster. On my wish list: an "on/off" ability to use the pre-programmed profile/roast levels or bypass them. Of course If given a choice any control is better than none...
That's my dream too - a Sono with true roast profiling. But I'm not convinced it's doable with a large gas heater & a small roast chamber - too much up & down range in temps to permit small variations in temp profiles.
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That's my dream too - a Sono with true roast profiling. But I'm not convinced it's doable with a large gas heater & a small roast chamber - too much up & down range in temps to permit small variations in temp profiles.
I don't know. Sonofresco already has a reasonably controlled ramp. I don't see there being a problem with slowing or accelerating that ramp at certain temperature ranges. In my mind it seems that it's just a matter of when to turn that heater on and off. Maybe I'm making it simpler than it really is.
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Good news folks!
The milowidget is alive... very alive.
baylanger (fellow GCBCer) is a software programmer.... we are planning the completion of the milowidget. He's going to work the software and I'm going to work the hardware.
first version will be for the Hottop
2nd for either the sonofresco and/or Ambex
3rd SC/TO an other popcorn poppers (I have to get some to toy with).
stay tuned!!
Just like it says below my username on the left... I'll make sure the program stops roasting "just before the third crack". >:D
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Welcome aboard Baylanger. I sure appreciate you helping Milo completing the Milowidget.
:)
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I'm on the verge of ordering a HotTop, and was wondering if milo might need a beta tester?
I make an excellent guinea pig!
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Where are you guys at in regards to progress on the Widgets? Just curious the thread has been inactive for a few months. Good Luck!
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Larry and I came up with great options / ideas. Still in the development phase. It will happen, stay tune.
First supported roaster is the Hottop but it won't stop there, we do have others in mind.
We're all curious to know how many people are very interested in this project. Don't hesitate to drop me an email (belanger AT pobox DOT com) and let us know what roaster you plan to use it. We'll keep a list and when there's something for your roaster, we will email you.
PB
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I would be interested in the HotTop Widget. Will you need a specific HotTop or will it work on the KN-8828, 8828D, 8828B and 8828P? I have an original 8828 and have been considering upgrading it to an 8828P. If the widget will work on all models of HotTop I will resist the temptation to upgrade and will wait for the completion of the widget.
Thank you for all of the work you guys are doing!
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I would be interested in the HotTop Widget. Will you need a specific HotTop or will it work on the KN-8828, 8828D, 8828B and 8828P? I have an original 8828 and have been considering upgrading it to an 8828P. If the widget will work on all models of HotTop I will resist the temptation to upgrade and will wait for the completion of the widget.
Thank you for all of the work you guys are doing!
It will work with any/all of them.
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I would be interested in the HotTop Widget. Will you need a specific HotTop or will it work on the KN-8828, 8828D, 8828B and 8828P? I have an original 8828 and have been considering upgrading it to an 8828P. If the widget will work on all models of HotTop I will resist the temptation to upgrade and will wait for the completion of the widget.
Thank you for all of the work you guys are doing!
Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is even if you get a basic HotTop the Milowidget will give it all the functionality of the higher model.
Extending that further ... would it not give a Behmor similar capabilities of the higher end HotTop?
???
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Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is even if you get a basic HotTop the Milowidget will give it all the functionality of the higher model.
Extending that further ... would it not give a Behmor similar capabilities of the higher end HotTop?
???
From what I recall the higher Hottop model does not give more functionality besides that you can store more profiles and it comes with a nice color LCD. If I would have first bought the higher model, I would have downgraded. To me the lower model gives you better roast control. I remember someone stating he downgraded. Even for 1$ , I would not "upgrade" my controller.
Our controller will definitively not have a nice color LCD like the higher model (too expensive). Perhaps in the future when the LCDs are cheaper. Right now we're focusing a lot more on the software side to control a roaster with some functionality. When that's done, we'll start working on other "interfaces". The Hottop being an electrical based roaster, the next one will probably be a gas type. Once those two are completed, we should have most software code written to interface with more roasters.
I'm not aware how the Behmor works (I think it has a few static profiles... 3?!). I do want to buy one for its capacity considering the price is right!
Larry and I did have discussion on what will come after the Hottop. For sure, if Larry or I don't own a unit it will be harder to make it happen. Besides that it all depends of the complexity of the unit itself (electronic interface or not, high voltage, etc).
PB
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Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is even if you get a basic HotTop the Milowidget will give it all the functionality of the higher model.
Extending that further ... would it not give a Behmor similar capabilities of the higher end HotTop?
???
From what I recall the higher Hottop model does not give more functionality besides that you can store more profiles and it comes with a nice color LCD. If I would have first bought the higher model, I would have downgraded. To me the lower model gives you better roast control. I remember someone stating he downgraded. Even for 1$ , I would not "upgrade" my controller.
Our controller will definitively not have a nice color LCD like the higher model (too expensive). Perhaps in the future when the LCDs are cheaper. Right now we're focusing a lot more on the software side to control a roaster with some functionality. When that's done, we'll start working on other "interfaces". The Hottop being an electrical based roaster, the next one will probably be a gas type. Once those two are completed, we should have most software code written to interface with more roasters.
I'm not aware how the Behmor works (I think it has a few static profiles... 3?!). I do want to buy one for its capacity considering the price is right!
Larry and I did have discussion on what will come after the Hottop. For sure, if Larry or I don't own a unit it will be harder to make it happen. Besides that it all depends of the complexity of the unit itself (electronic interface or not, high voltage, etc).
PB
Thank you for the insight Baylanger.
If you want the volume market maybe you should be looking at the Freshroast models.
My 2 cents.
:)
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Thank you for the insight Baylanger.
If you want the volume market maybe you should be looking at the Freshroast models.
My 2 cents.
:)
Volume in coffee, or volume in people owning them. ;-)
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Thank you for the insight Baylanger.
If you want the volume market maybe you should be looking at the Freshroast models.
My 2 cents.
:)
Volume in coffee, or volume in people owning them. ;-)
Volume in people owning them ... lowest cost roater.
:)
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Thank you for the insight Baylanger.
If you want the volume market maybe you should be looking at the Freshroast models.
My 2 cents.
:)
Volume in coffee, or volume in people owning them. ;-)
Volume in people owning them ... lowest cost roater.
:)
Volume of ownership... based on what market research?
It's my guess that the widget won't be free and if the widget is the same price as the 'lowest cost roaster' how many people will be buying them for their Freshroast? Buying cheap, then paying more for an add-on, usually causes a disconnect.
Just sayin'.
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Thank you for the insight Baylanger.
If you want the volume market maybe you should be looking at the Freshroast models.
My 2 cents.
:)
Volume in coffee, or volume in people owning them. ;-)
Volume in people owning them ... lowest cost roater.
:)
Volume of ownership... based on what market research?
It's my guess that the widget won't be free and if the widget is the same price as the 'lowest cost roaster' how many people will be buying them for their Freshroast? Buying cheap, then paying more for an add-on, usually causes a disconnect.
Just sayin'.
You may be right. If you spend 8 or 9 hundred on a roaster ... what is another 100 or 2?
I based the fact on price entry being the point. The more inexpensive the item the more the purchasers. On the other hand how many people would like to double their roaster investment on a control gadget.
:)
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I'll try at my best to address all of the previous concerns / raised questions.
Some people buy a used poppery for 5$ and spend (FOR EXAMPLE) 200$ on some hardware (variac to control the heat element, thermocouple, digital thermocouple reader, switches, etc). When you switch to a new roaster, will you still use the variac, thermocouple reader, switches, etc). For example, if you switch to a gas roaster you definitely don't need the variac anymore.
Use our product with a low cost roaster and when you change your roaster, all you need is the "roaster interface" made for the roaster you just bought. The cost of the interface depends mainly on the required components. PERHAPS you'll be able to return your old interface and get a new one at discount price (time will tell).
Will it be free? As stated earlier would someone spending 100$ on a roaster spend (for example) 200$ on a controller? In terms of hardware we're already over 100$ and there are still a few "items" to add on top of the current "shopping list". What if you prefer to use quality Omega thermocouple? Price of each thermocouple is 40$. As of today there are still a few unknown variables to define a final cost and honestly Larry and I didn't discuss yet how the product will sale and be presented.
See your purchase like an investment in a product you can use for years to come -- but this is pure speculation until the product is really there.
Will we ever publish the source code, perhaps. Will we make money, some ... a lot, I doubt it but I wish! Would we accept green coffee donation, *I* certainly would anytime ;-)
All of the above might never happen or it might -- only time will tell. For sure, it WILL happen for the Hottop and until then sit down, relax and watch the show. We already selected 3 beta testers and before including more people, we first want have a "rock solid" product. To me rock solid means something stable that works as we all expect it to work.
Stay tune.
PB
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Thank you for the informative post.
Looking forward to the MiloWidget.
:)
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I'll try at my best to address all of the previous concerns / raised questions.
Some people buy a used poppery for 5$ and spend (FOR EXAMPLE) 200$ on some hardware (variac to control the heat element, thermocouple, digital thermocouple reader, switches, etc). When you switch to a new roaster, will you still use the variac, thermocouple reader, switches, etc). For example, if you switch to a gas roaster you definitely don't need the variac anymore.
Use our product with a low cost roaster and when you change your roaster, all you need is the "roaster interface" made for the roaster you just bought. The cost of the interface depends mainly on the required components. PERHAPS you'll be able to return your old interface and get a new one at discount price (time will tell).
Will it be free? As stated earlier would someone spending 100$ on a roaster spend (for example) 200$ on a controller? In terms of hardware we're already over 100$ and there are still a few "items" to add on top of the current "shopping list". What if you prefer to use quality Omega thermocouple? Price of each thermocouple is 40$. As of today there are still a few unknown variables to define a final cost and honestly Larry and I didn't discuss yet how the product will sale and be presented.
See your purchase like an investment in a product you can use for years to come -- but this is pure speculation until the product is really there.
Will we ever publish the source code, perhaps. Will we make money, some ... a lot, I doubt it but I wish! Would we accept green coffee donation, *I* certainly would anytime ;-)
All of the above might never happen or it might -- only time will tell. For sure, it WILL happen for the Hottop and until then sit down, relax and watch the show. We already selected 3 beta testers and before including more people, we first want have a "rock solid" product. To me rock solid means something stable that works as we all expect it to work.
Stay tune.
PB
I'm tuned in and have my popcorn in the microwave right now (popcorn not MiloWidgeted).
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I am glad to hear that the base widget will plug into different interfaces for different roasters. Presuming that means I can set up my SC/TO with the widget then move my widget over to the gas grill 5 lb roaster and plug it into my thermal couple and electronic gas valve control...thingy... select a saved profile and start roasting... then switch it back when I need the small patch size..
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I am glad to hear that the base widget will plug into different interfaces for different roasters. Presuming that means I can set up my SC/TO with the widget then move my widget over to the gas grill 5 lb roaster and plug it into my thermal couple and electronic gas valve control...thingy... select a saved profile and start roasting... then switch it back when I need the small patch size..
Yeah ... that would certainly give you flexibility.
I wonder how hard it would be to do what you said?
:)
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It may be a pipe dream but how hard would it be to use a USB or bluetooth interface a laptop to these roasters? You could do an awful lot that way. I look forward to the day when I can get a M/widget.
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It may be a pipe dream but how hard would it be to use a USB or bluetooth interface a laptop to these roasters? You could do an awful lot that way. I look forward to the day when I can get a M/widget.
Hmm ... you got me thinking ... how about a USB port into a roaster. It would make it convenient for the MiloWidget or has you say a computer to connect to it.
8)
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I would have to read this thread from the beginning to be sure but I believe the m/widget is the usb into your roaster.. it will control relays and other low voltage controllers to control the heater, fan, cooling tray blower/bean stirrer.. how many outputs does that thing have?? it is the interpreter from computer data to "turn up/down the heat" you could set it up so the PC is your controler or you can just use the M/widget buttons... key is th brain trust will only do what they think is important if you want it pull shots and pour lattee art you better start coding and tinkering :D
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A teaser for ya all.
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Hmm ... what is the price range we are looking at ... at the present moment?
???
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A teaser for ya all.
Don'tcha think that as a tribute to our hard work and ingenuity in putting them together, that those of us with UFO/TOs and SC/TO's should get the second wave of these????
(Quick translation: I want mine NOW !!!!)
Susan
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Hmm ... what is the price range we are looking at ... at the present moment?
???
How much ya got?? ;D ;D
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Hmm ... what is the price range we are looking at ... at the present moment?
???
How much ya got?? ;D ;D
Between 50 and 100?
???
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Hmm ... what is the price range we are looking at ... at the present moment?
???
How much ya got?? ;D ;D
Between 50 and 100?
???
Maybe, I forget what roaster you have.
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Hmm ... what is the price range we are looking at ... at the present moment?
???
How much ya got?? ;D ;D
Between 50 and 100?
???
Maybe, I forget what roaster you have.
I have the FreshRoast.
:)
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Hmm ... what is the price range we are looking at ... at the present moment?
???
How much ya got?? ;D ;D
Between 50 and 100?
???
Maybe, I forget what roaster you have.
I have the FreshRoast.
:)
Hmmmm that one should be easy.... tough part will be where to put the thermocouples.... MP.... save you pennies.. there is a coffee kids auction coming.... maybe there will be a new roaster in your future if you save you Canadian pennies
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Hmm ... what is the price range we are looking at ... at the present moment?
???
How much ya got?? ;D ;D
Between 50 and 100?
???
Maybe, I forget what roaster you have.
I have the FreshRoast.
:)
Hmmmm that one should be easy.... tough part will be where to put the thermocouples.... MP.... save you pennies.. there is a coffee kids auction coming.... maybe there will be a new roaster in your future if you save you Canadian pennies
Oh yeah ... which one they putting up there?
PS ... I try your Poco De Caldas & Nossa Sehnora tomorrow. (Can't wait!)
???
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WOW on the Widget! How difficult / easy will those be to hook up to the HotTops?
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WOW on the Widget! How difficult / easy will those be to hook up to the HotTops?
The idea is fairly easy. Hardest part will be installing the thermocouples.
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Totally wow on the widget. I recently got the "P" model and have already become frustrated with the lack of control. I eager anticipate the availability of this alternative.
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Totally wow on the widget. I recently got the "P" model and have already become frustrated with the lack of control. I eager anticipate the availability of this alternative.
ditto!
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Larry and Baylanger,
What's the "latest and greatest" on this project? Any news? Any beta testing going on yet? Inquiring minds want to know! ;)
P.S.
My offer for Sonofresco beta testing still stands. ;D
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Larry and Baylanger,
What's the "latest and greatest" on this project? Any news? Any beta testing going on yet? Inquiring minds want to know! ;)
P.S.
My offer for Sonofresco beta testing still stands. ;D
It seems some of the top secret schematics (http://xkcd.com/730/) for the milowidget have leaked into the public?!?! I hope there are no more security breaches!!
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Larry and Baylanger,
What's the "latest and greatest" on this project? Any news? Any beta testing going on yet? Inquiring minds want to know! ;)
P.S.
My offer for Sonofresco beta testing still stands. ;D
It seems some of the top secret schematics ([url]http://xkcd.com/730/[/url]) for the milowidget have leaked into the public?!?! I hope there are no more security breaches!!
The flux capacitor will be useful when you pooch a roast (after you go down to the corner store to pick up some plutonium)
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Larry and Baylanger,
What's the "latest and greatest" on this project? Any news? Any beta testing going on yet? Inquiring minds want to know! ;)
P.S.
My offer for Sonofresco beta testing still stands. ;D
It seems some of the top secret schematics ([url]http://xkcd.com/730/[/url]) for the milowidget have leaked into the public?!?! I hope there are no more security breaches!!
At least it's good to see that some progress is being made! ;D
"Not a resistor; Wire just does this." Love it. :D
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I am interested in a simple version, Data logging with USB. Computer ramp, soak programs for set point only "target setpoint". I plan on running manual adjustments but would love a simple data logging system with set point targets. My guess is this is the problem, we all want something a little different. :-\
Ringo
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I am interested in a simple version, Data logging with USB. Computer ramp, soak programs for set point only "target setpoint". I plan on running manual adjustments but would love a simple data logging system with set point targets. My guess is this is the problem, we all want something a little different. :-\
Ringo
You can't please all of the people all of the time.
:-\
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I am interested in a simple version, Data logging with USB. Computer ramp, soak programs for set point only "target setpoint". I plan on running manual adjustments but would love a simple data logging system with set point targets. My guess is this is the problem, we all want something a little different. :-\
Ringo
You can't please all of the people all of the time.
:-\
Very true Lincoln....I mean mp 8)
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I am interested in a simple version, Data logging with USB. Computer ramp, soak programs for set point only "target setpoint". I plan on running manual adjustments but would love a simple data logging system with set point targets. My guess is this is the problem, we all want something a little different. :-\
Ringo
You can't please all of the people all of the time.
:-\
Very true Lincoln....I mean mp 8)
Ah ... close ... I believe he substituted "please" with "fool".
:)
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stand corrected. That's what I get for posting without googling first
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stand corrected. That's what I get for posting without googling first
Yup ... you had me curious ... so I had to look it up.
;D
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*tap tap tap* Is this thing on?
Anything new in the Milowidget world? My Sonofresco is lonely… ;)
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*tap tap tap* Is this thing on?
Anything new in the Milowidget world? My Sonofresco is lonely… ;)
I'm spooling back up again soon. My software guru got a job and seems to be working too much and I've been spending all my free time on a kitchen remodel. ;D but the good news is I'm almost done with my kitchen, so back at the milowidget soon.
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*tap tap tap* Is this thing on?
Anything new in the Milowidget world? My Sonofresco is lonely… ;)
I'm spooling back up again soon. My software guru got a job and seems to be working too much and I've been spending all my free time on a kitchen remodel. ;D but the good news is I'm almost done with my kitchen, so back at the milowidget soon.
We want pictures of that for sure Larry.
;)
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*tap tap tap* Is this thing on?
Anything new in the Milowidget world? My Sonofresco is lonely… ;)
good news is I'm almost done with my kitchen, so back at the milowidget soon.
Man, I thought I had to do a lot of wiffy project to get to play with my projects but never did a kitchen!
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I'd sure like to begin my variant of this project shortly.
Control of gas valves is really, really important. I need to start looking at hardware!
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You might check out the knife makers forums. Lots of info there on making PID'ed heat treat furnaces would tend to translate pretty well.
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I'd sure like to begin my variant of this project shortly.
Control of gas valves is really, really important. I need to start looking at hardware!
Expensive, but there is a solution. Maxtrol M420RH and a Honeywell Valve SV9501, you need them both if you don't have on on/off valve. The Maxtrol controls the pressure, the Honeywell on/off, pilot, etc.
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I picked up a HVAC damper controller and a PID that will talk to it a few years back... never tried to turn on and off a valve yet...
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A damper control "actuator" will control a gas valve, pids are set up to run them. Much better control if your actuator has slidwire feedback, should see a pot on the actuator or come up with a way to add one. This lets the controler know how open the valve is. You would need a gas valve that is full on and full off in 90 to 360 degs. The actuators I use at work either swing 90 degs or 180 degs, you can move the stops and get a smaller swing. I have not been able to find a valve that will do this. On my roaster I installed a 3/8 needle valve but the adjustment full on to full off is only maybe 10 degs, I need more swing.
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I picked up a HVAC damper controller and a PID that will talk to it a few years back... never tried to turn on and off a valve yet...
Wait... you invented time warp communications? Tell the PID to tell the HVAC damper controller to purchase some AAPL stock!
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I picked up a HVAC damper controller and a PID that will talk to it a few years back... never tried to turn on and off a valve yet...
Wait... you invented time warp communications? Tell the PID to tell the HVAC damper controller to purchase some AAPL stock!
I wish they would have let me take the 'English as a second language' course in college :-[
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I picked up a HVAC damper controller and a PID that will talk to it a few years back... never tried to turn on and off a valve yet...
Wait... you invented time warp communications? Tell the PID to tell the HVAC damper controller to purchase some AAPL stock!
:laughing4:
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Any progress? Getting tired of the Hottop 8828D's lack of features. :)
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I haven't worked to much on it over the summer, but plan to dig back into it in November/December.
I feel your pain on the older hottop.
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Just read this thread from beginning to end. As a long time C programmer, and an owner of a HotTop KN-8828D I'm kind of curious about how it's going.
Thanks in advance.
Mark
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Just read this thread from beginning to end. As a long time C programmer, and an owner of a HotTop KN-8828D I'm kind of curious about how it's going.
Thanks in advance.
Mark
You're not alone! ???
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I have done a little programming.....would LOVE to beta test :) or help fund this project
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It is alive!
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=11317.new#new (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=11317.new#new)
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I gotta admit - I've only been around since November, but I thought this widget thing was a myth.
Now I'm interested. Who mentioned a rabbit hole?
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I'm actually working on it tonight!
Don't listen to Tex, it's no myth!
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I gotta admit - I've only been around since November, but I thought this widget thing was a myth.
Now I'm interested. Who mentioned a rabbit hole?
Watch yoUR ST!!! oh.. well.. welcome to our nightmare ;D
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I'm actually working on it tonight!
Don't listen to Tex, it's no myth!
Proof of Pareto's Principle: 20% doing, 80% talking about doing!
;D
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I'm actually working on it tonight!
Don't listen to Tex, it's no myth!
Tex is last in line to get his.
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I'm actually working on it tonight!
Don't listen to Tex, it's no myth!
Tex is last in line to get his.
I waited so long the Sonofresco & Hottop died of old age! ;D
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I'm actually working on it tonight!
Don't listen to Tex, it's no myth!
Proof of Pareto's Principle: 20% doing, 80% talking about doing!
;D
Tex speaking with many years experience!
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I'm actually working on it tonight!
Don't listen to Tex, it's no myth!
Proof of Pareto's Principle: 20% doing, 80% talking about doing!
;D
Tex speaking with many years experience!
I'd love to chat more with you milo, but I'm going to the garage and actually work on something. You stick around and talk some more. >:D
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Here is tonight's progress..... dang those surface mount chips are a booger to solder... The pen should give you perspective. The board on the right is ~ 2" x 2"
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Here is tonight's progress..... dang those surface mount chips are a booger to solder... The pen should give you perspective. The board on the right is ~ 2" x 2"
OK, OK; so maybe you will get it done soon. I wonder how much they would cost per unit if you'd have a jobber do those commercially in China?
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Looks great. Is the software controlling ejection solenoid, and fan? And if so how are u connecting that to the tc4? I am consumed with anticipation :)
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Looks great. Is the software controlling ejection solenoid, and fan? And if so how are u connecting that to the tc4? I am consumed with anticipation :)
Yes, it will control the entire Hottop. I'm planning on using the Jeelabs connection for the display (with an adapter) and then use the LCD plug for the hottop controls (it's conveniently 8 pins of digital I/O, power and ground on the correct pins... except for 2 pins, those I'll re-route).
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Looks great. Is the software controlling ejection solenoid, and fan? And if so how are u connecting that to the tc4? I am consumed with anticipation :)
Yes, it will control the entire Hottop. I'm planning on using the Jeelabs connection for the display (with an adapter) and then use the LCD plug for the hottop controls (it's conveniently 8 pins of digital I/O, power and ground on the correct pins... except for 2 pins, those I'll re-route).
After I got rid of our Sono, I got to thinking about a widget for it. Gas heat would be a bitch to control with your widget - unless you didn't try to control the heat output, but concentrated on the actual heat.
Let the burner run constantly and have a variable fan regulate the chamber temps. That way you could run a fixed BTU burner constantly; probably a lower rated burner would be needed if it's constantly on.
Like I said, I thought of this after I sold the Sono.
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I remember the 9800 was a pain to solder, I almost lost it because I was holding it down too hard, and it "flicked" away.
Randy
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Looks great. Is the software controlling ejection solenoid, and fan? And if so how are u connecting that to the tc4? I am consumed with anticipation :)
Yes, it will control the entire Hottop. I'm planning on using the Jeelabs connection for the display (with an adapter) and then use the LCD plug for the hottop controls (it's conveniently 8 pins of digital I/O, power and ground on the correct pins... except for 2 pins, those I'll re-route).
Time to stop dragging my feet and start ordering parts. I'm not particularly gifted at soldering, maybe two tc4 boards :).
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Uh Oh Larry
Does this mean I can throw the board away that I soldered up last fall???? And I've been waiting so patiently, too...
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Uh Oh Larry
Does this mean I can throw the board away that I soldered up last fall???? And I've been waiting so patiently, too...
Maybe.... don't toss it yet. Let me make sure it works before anyone spends any $$
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Uh Oh Larry
Does this mean I can throw the board away that I soldered up last fall???? And I've been waiting so patiently, too...
Maybe.... don't toss it yet. Let me make sure it works before anyone spends any $$
But my tax return is burning a hole in my pocket!! Gotta get some coffee toys soon
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Yes, it will control the entire Hottop. I'm planning on using the Jeelabs connection for the display (with an adapter) and then use the LCD plug for the hottop controls (it's conveniently 8 pins of digital I/O, power and ground on the correct pins... except for 2 pins, those I'll re-route).
Very cool ... this makes the HotTop look like a shoo-in for my next roaster.
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TC4 and arduino enroute to my roasting lair. This is going to be fun :)
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I have it, assembled, and reading temperatures from the hottop, using the "bourbon" program . I don't know if the newest revision of the tc4 shield is supported by artisan or not. I cannot seem to get the two to comunicate. This has been a great learning experence so far. I cant wait to keep going.
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I have it, assembled, and reading temperatures from the hottop, using the "bourbon" program . I don't know if the newest revision of the tc4 shield is supported by artisan or not. I cannot seem to get the two to comunicate. This has been a great learning experence so far. I cant wait to keep going.
A user came up with a change to Bourbon to make it work with Artisan, and I dont thing the change was made to the "released" version of Bourbon.
It looks pretty easy to make the change, if you know software.
http://homeroasters.org/php/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=2142 (http://homeroasters.org/php/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=2142)
Randy
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Thanks a million Randy. I'm just jumpin into all this. My next hurdle is getting the tc4 to control the heaters.
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If anyone wants to do anything with wireless remote keypads/display for this stuff, let me know. I'll be pleased to share some code (Arduino) that might save you some time. The piece of value is the reliable wireless transmission of array data, of any data type. Adapting what I've done would be fairly simple. Range: about a hundred yards, ymmv.
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If anyone wants to do anything with wireless remote keypads/display for this stuff, let me know. I'll be pleased to share some code (Arduino) that might save you some time. The piece of value is the reliable wireless transmission of array data, of any data type. Adapting what I've done would be fairly simple. Range: about a hundred yards, ymmv.
I was just starting to look into wireless, will send you a pm.
Randy
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I have it, assembled, and reading temperatures from the hottop, using the "bourbon" program . I don't know if the newest revision of the tc4 shield is supported by artisan or not. I cannot seem to get the two to comunicate. This has been a great learning experence so far. I cant wait to keep going.
Are you using the Hottop high voltage board or are you using SSRs to control heat, etc.?
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Hadn't decided yet. I am interested in following your end result since it seems it will be tailored to the hottop. Did you go ssr or high voltage board?
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Hadn't decided yet. I am interested in following your end result since it seems it will be tailored to the hottop. Did you go ssr or high voltage board?
You might want to see what JimG did to his Hottop
http://homeroasters.org/php/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=1774&rowstart=600 (http://homeroasters.org/php/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=1774&rowstart=600)
Randy
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Hadn't decided yet. I am interested in following your end result since it seems it will be tailored to the hottop. Did you go ssr or high voltage board?
Jim used SSRs for the motor and heater.
My plan is to control the factory hottop high voltage board. It will require 2 hardware changes to the TC4.
1) slight modification to the board
2) use an external I2C LCD interface for the LCD
I plan to use the I/O that the LCD is using to control the hottop.
My board should be put together, modified by mid April. (I'd do it sooner, but I'm headed to Korea tomorrow for 12 days).
Once I get the board together then I'll take Randy's code and modify it for the different I2C interface for the display and then re-purpose the I/O for the Hottop control.
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Hadn't decided yet. I am interested in following your end result since it seems it will be tailored to the hottop. Did you go ssr or high voltage board?
Jim used SSRs for the motor and heater.
My plan is to control the factory hottop high voltage board. It will require 2 hardware changes to the TC4.
1) slight modification to the board
2) use an external I2C LCD interface for the LCD
I plan to use the I/O that the LCD is using to control the hottop.
My board should be put together, modified by mid April. (I'd do it sooner, but I'm headed to Korea tomorrow for 12 days).
Once I get the board together then I'll take Randy's code and modify it for the different I2C interface for the display and then re-purpose the I/O for the Hottop control.
I'd check the winds for later this week. IIRC, if they shift as predicted it'll blow from northern Japan right over the Korean peninsula?
On the up side, you might have a ringside seat to history.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdndwbG7iqvSe976UeTkuonucIa9FbqbX2Nd1yRsLkjn87ip-B_Q)
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Not a problem right now... all that radiation is heading to Texas
(http://www.weather-report.jp/img2/home/kishomap/msm/wind_japan_300_0.gif)
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Not a problem right now... all that radiation is heading to Texas
([url]http://www.weather-report.jp/img2/home/kishomap/msm/wind_japan_300_0.gif[/url])
The latest report has the wind direction shifting onshore, to S by SW. Folks in Tokyo & Seoul are messing their tidy whities worrying about it.
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Once I get the board together then I'll take Randy's code and modify it for the different I2C interface for the display and then re-purpose the I/O for the Hottop control.
My latest code (can be downloaded from the tc4 site) uses a I2C port expander to control the LCD, and to read push buttons. In my setup, I use a 2nd port expander to control the Alpenrost, but that is specific to my hardware. You really don't need to do this, using the Arduino IO pins would have worked fine, as it is I have a bunch of unused IO pins now.
Randy
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Very cool Randy
I'll download the latest and take a peak.
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BTW, hardly needed for this project but want to put in a plug for a good product from a guy quite near to where I work.
http://www.jkdevices.com/arduino-megamini (http://www.jkdevices.com/arduino-megamini)
We're likely to be working closely with him on a mod to this platform, for our project.
We need the additional PWM pins. He says we could probably reduce the size to 1/4 of what you see there (if we eliminate unneeded analog and digitals). Not bad. In its stock form, you end up with a festoonage of headers. It's amazingly dense. It'll also sink a half amp (though we're feeding transistors for current's sake) with its regulator. He took a hint from me and is experimenting with a particular potting compound, just now, with thermal control in view for high current applications. It's an interesting alternative to heat sinks per se.
Geez the Arduino platform is fruitful in the market. Every time I turn around someone's using 'em for something, and the number (and quality!) of libraries is expanding ridiculously.
I might even improve my java skills by way of C. ;)
I hafta admit, though, coding real-time stuff can be really tricky -- especially when you need to do periodic things in an analogy way. And that's all I'll say without an NDA in play. ;D
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I hafta admit, though, coding real-time stuff can be really tricky -- especially when you need to do periodic things in an analogy way. And that's all I'll say without an NDA in play. ;D
Ugh. Don't remind me. If I never have to spend weeks on end getting another two cycles out of a for loop I'll be a happy man.
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Ugh. Don't remind me. If I never have to spend weeks on end getting another two cycles out of a for loop I'll be a happy man.
I think that is a do-loop in Fortran. I was notorious for locking mine into some sort of continuous loop to nowhere, executing without conclusion. Not sure what they are called, maybe FUBAR code? Many, maaaaaaaaaaaaany moons ago. Drove - me - nuts.
B|Java
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Ugh. Don't remind me. If I never have to spend weeks on end getting another two cycles out of a for loop I'll be a happy man.
I think that is a do-loop in Fortran. I was notorious for locking mine into some sort of continuous loop to nowhere, executing without conclusion. Not sure what they are called, maybe FUBAR code? Many, maaaaaaaaaaaaany moons ago. Drove - me - nuts.
B|Java
I had a big ol thing written up but decided it was far too much geekery for this early in the morning. You are all welcome. :P
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Fortran?? That's like Latin right? B|dinosaur did your pc have a crank start too :)
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Fortran?? That's like Latin right? B|dinosaur did your pc have a crank start too :)
I don't know about B|fossil, but my last serious forays were with Fortran IV on PDP-11's and 8" floppies (i.e. before PCs). Fortran 77 was too radical, so I decided to bow out.
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Fortran?? That's like Latin right? B|dinosaur did your pc have a crank start too :)
Rubber bands and 3 x 8 IBM cards, man. Get with it.
B|Java
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Ugh. Don't remind me. If I never have to spend weeks on end getting another two cycles out of a for loop I'll be a happy man.
I think that is a do-loop in Fortran. I was notorious for locking mine into some sort of continuous loop to nowhere, executing without conclusion. Not sure what they are called, maybe FUBAR code? Many, maaaaaaaaaaaaany moons ago. Drove - me - nuts.
B|Java
Not loops; they were known as dynamic halts.
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Believe it or not Fortran is still the best number crunching language. For programs that use a lot of math, Fortran is still used. Much quicker than C. We are having an issue right now because we want to put an application we use on an iPad... but there are no Fortran compilers available for that OS..... the only way to do it is convert it to C, but then it will be slow....
The Droid, however is Linux, so there is a Fortran compiler we can use... Droid rules!
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Believe it or not Fortran is still the best number crunching language. For programs that use a lot of math, Fortran is still used. Much quicker than C. We are having an issue right now because we want to put an application we use on an iPad... but there are no Fortran compilers available for that OS..... the only way to do it is convert it to C, but then it will be slow....
The Droid, however is Linux, so there is a Fortran compiler we can use... Droid rules!
That's amazing! I won't tell on myself, but the 1st Fortran compiler I used listed Backus' name as its developer. As the only floating point arithmetic, non-machine language available it was a gift from God. The mortality, longevity, and retention studies I did for Farmers Insurance in the early 60's wouldn't have been possible without Fortran.
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Believe it or not Fortran is still the best number crunching language. For programs that use a lot of math, Fortran is still used. Much quicker than C. We are having an issue right now because we want to put an application we use on an iPad... but there are no Fortran compilers available for that OS..... the only way to do it is convert it to C, but then it will be slow....
The Droid, however is Linux, so there is a Fortran compiler we can use... Droid rules!
As long as you keep working on the Milowewidget I will believe anything you say :)
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Believe it or not Fortran is still the best number crunching language. For programs that use a lot of math, Fortran is still used. Much quicker than C. We are having an issue right now because we want to put an application we use on an iPad... but there are no Fortran compilers available for that OS..... the only way to do it is convert it to C, but then it will be slow....
The Droid, however is Linux, so there is a Fortran compiler we can use... Droid rules!
The extensive, free numerical method libraries are a big help too, huh?
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If anyone wants to do anything with wireless remote keypads/display for this stuff, let me know. I'll be pleased to share some code (Arduino) that might save you some time. The piece of value is the reliable wireless transmission of array data, of any data type. Adapting what I've done would be fairly simple. Range: about a hundred yards, ymmv.
Did you get my PM?
I just changed my code to control my Arduino from a Processing program, would be nice if I could do it wirelessly.
Randy
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Yah, so sorry so late getting back to you. It's been an insane week...
Let me see if I can get something to you quick -- even if not well-documented, you can go to the sources to generalize back to first principals from my specific implementation.
Be aware that I'm using one-way wireless, though; we didn't need XBee/ZigBee capability.
ARGH! They're not able to get the receivers any more: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8947 (http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8947)
We used the higher frequency version of that.
See PM shortly -- I can at least share the code!
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Yeah, when I learned Fortran is was Hollerith's punched card on the campus PDP-11, you'd submit your batch job at night and come by the next day for the print-out and just hope that you didn't have a compile error.
I thought I was hot snot later because I had a 300 baud modem and could dial into the mainframe and upload my pre-written programs into a vi buffer instead of having to hang out in the computer room dungeon waiting for a terminal to enter my code.
I imagine that I could do all this locally now on my Droid phone if I really wanted too.
Heh-heh! You can buy the SIMH app for like $4 now that will allow you to emulate a virtual PDP-11, VAX and other mini-computers on your droid with a good deal more horsepower than the original if you have one of the faster phones.
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I got the LCD and TC4 up and running. I cheated and got the surface mount parts pre-soldered. These eye's aren't what they used to be.
The first item I plan on controlling will be my Bradley Original Smoker with a Crydom D120, a 120v 10 Amp SCR that works perfectly with an arduino digital IO pin. I'm coming up to speed on using the Arduino IDE. There are some amazingly slow routines in it, but overall, easy for a beginner to pickup.
I was going to log the data to a SD card however the SparkFun board seems to have an overlap with the TC4 board. Haven't looked into it in great enough detail yet.
Mark
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Google just announced a LOT.
Anyway, germane here, search for Arduino on this page.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/live_blog_google_io_2011_day_one.php (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/live_blog_google_io_2011_day_one.php)
Just control your roaster from an Android app. Use a 802.11n shield with your Arduino and do it across the network, wirelessly.
Heck, map that port at your firewall and keep an eye on someone else's roasts.
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In my setup, I have a bluetooth interface between my arduino and my laptop.
I roast in my backyard, so I can now sit in my kitchen, and run the roaster outside.
But, bluetooth (at least my setup) has a limited range, so I decided to add a wifi interface from my PC to my iphone.
Now, I can monitor a roast from my iphone, via wifi.
All I needed extra was a $5 all, touchOSC.
BTW, they have touchOSC for android too.
Randy
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A new Arduino UNO is in the mail! Once I catch up with the 30 years that have passed since I last played with electronics, I will have to figure out how to use this stuff on my Hottop P. The TC4 seems to be a bit more "dirt under the nails," so I will wait on that.
...and I just wanted to drink good coffee.... :-\
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...
...and I just wanted to drink good coffee.... :-\
and save money. That's the line I used.
B|Java
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I have the "P" too. The TC4 is a great addition.
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I have the "P" too. The TC4 is a great addition.
Have you set it up, yet? Any advice? Photos? Are you using Kona or Bourbon for software?
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No photos at the moment. I have a few recommendations.
I put my bean mass sensor through the back wall of the roaster. I think it is a cleaner install. I intend on doing the same with the enviro but just haven't got to it yet.
For software I run randy's. He's very active here and really seems animated about the project and getting feedback etc. Although I can't wait to see where Millow ends up as his should do roaster control as well.
For heat control, which is where the "p" is really lacking, I am running the element straight off a variac for now so my roasts are completely manual. Although the "programs" let me get decent coffee a year ago it was just too much of a Pima to get them to profile.
Going forward I want to get the arduino doing more roast control but with summer inbound and the surf and the trails calling it may be unlikely.
Hit me up with a pm if you need help getting the tc in place or have any other questions.
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I've been using the TC4 for a few months now. Strictly for monitoring. Added is the ability to monitor/graph the variac voltage going to the heating element with a "juice box" using the gesha program. I like it.
The screen shot is an extended finish for an espresso blend component. The driving wasn't the best..
I'm in the process of mounting the hardware into a control box
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I know many will not believe it, but I've made some progress on the milowidget. For the hottop the hardware interface is done. At least the beta version.... now to work on the code. Randystouch did a bunch of code over at homeroasters.com and plan to use what he's done and add to it. There is also a computer (USB) interface software that can plot and control the profiles....
Here is a tease photo with my test software running.
(http://home.wavecable.com/~nancy.lewis/Hottop.JPG)
I'm really going to finish this in 2011...
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A Christmas present for the Gcbc!! :) looks amazing!
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.441061,-71.971437
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I know many will not believe it, but I've made some progress on the milowidget. For the hottop the hardware interface is done. At least the beta version.... now to work on the code. Randystouch did a bunch of code over at homeroasters.com and plan to use what he's done and add to it. There is also a computer (USB) interface software that can plot and control the profiles....
Here is a tease photo with my test software running.
I'm really going to finish this in 2011...
I seem to remember something about this - but my memory is fading...
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/yawn.gif)
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Thats great news Larry :). It is maddening to have to cool the HT way down and then heat it way up when doing back to back batches. Its a good roaster with too many "pre-fab" issues that your widget will hopefully address.
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A youtube so you can see it works
MVI 0825 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ujkWuf4RC8#ws)
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Very nice Larry.
What roaster were you testing it on?
Have you tested it on many roasters or does that step come down the line?
:)
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Very nice Larry.
What roaster were you testing it on?
Have you tested it on many roasters or does that step come down the line?
:)
First will be the hottop (that's what I have it hooked up to in the video). Next a Behmor, cause I have one... then my Ambex once I understand more about the control logic. 4 - 5 lbs of coffee per test is a bit much even for me.
Your Alpenrost could be done, I've controlled one before with the early version of the milowidget. It needs a high voltage board.
I plan to do some tests in the next few days on how quickly I can get to 1st crack with the hottop with the fan on and off. I plan to start with a little higher drop temp than it currently allows.
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Very nice Larry.
What roaster were you testing it on?
Have you tested it on many roasters or does that step come down the line?
:)
First will be the hottop (that's what I have it hooked up to in the video). Next a Behmor, cause I have one... then my Ambex once I understand more about the control logic. 4 - 5 lbs of coffee per test is a bit much even for me.
Your Alpenrost could be done, I've controlled one before with the early version of the milowidget. It needs a high voltage board.
I plan to do some tests in the next few days on how quickly I can get to 1st crack with the hottop with the fan on and off. I plan to start with a little higher drop temp than it currently allows.
Good timing.
I don't relish the thought of hacking my Alpenrost to get darker roasts.
I am thinking of maybe upgrading to a Behmor.
How far from product sales do you figure?
:)
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Very nice Larry.
What roaster were you testing it on?
Have you tested it on many roasters or does that step come down the line?
:)
First will be the hottop (that's what I have it hooked up to in the video). Next a Behmor, cause I have one... then my Ambex once I understand more about the control logic. 4 - 5 lbs of coffee per test is a bit much even for me.
Your Alpenrost could be done, I've controlled one before with the early version of the milowidget. It needs a high voltage board.
I plan to do some tests in the next few days on how quickly I can get to 1st crack with the hottop with the fan on and off. I plan to start with a little higher drop temp than it currently allows.
Good timing.
I don't relish the thought of hacking my Alpenrost to get darker roasts.
I am thinking of maybe upgrading to a Behmor.
How far from product sales do you figure?
:)
Upgrade to a hottop... if you upgrade. Save and look for a pre-owned one.
Hottop version I hope to have done this year. Behmor next spring.
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Hottop is a great roaster ... but many $$$$$.
Behmor is good roaster ... less $$.
:)
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Hottop is a great roaster ... but many $$$$$.
Behmor is good roaster ... less $$.
:)
Comparative value - how long will the respective machines last?
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Hottop is a great roaster ... but many $$$$$.
Behmor is good roaster ... less $$.
:)
Comparative value - how long will the respective machines last?
Good point.
Don't have much data on that.
Have you?
:)
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Hottop is a great roaster ... but many $$$$$.
Behmor is good roaster ... less $$.
:)
Comparative value - how long will the respective machines last?
Good point.
Don't have much data on that.
Have you?
:)
No, but I'll bet the next Sono I buy will last a lifetime. :-[
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Hottop is a great roaster ... but many $$$$$.
Behmor is good roaster ... less $$.
:)
Comparative value - how long will the respective machines last?
Good point.
Don't have much data on that.
Have you?
:)
No, but I'll bet the next Sono I buy will last a lifetime. :-[
Yea, right
(http://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/pinocchio1.gif)
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No, but I'll bet the next Sono I buy will last a lifetime. :-[
Yea, right
([url]http://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/pinocchio1.gif[/url])
Mrs T almost killed me for selling the 1st Sono (She'd never have figured out my horse-trading grandpa!) - now I have to get another one to shush her a bit.
Oh, the sacrifices I make for that woman! ;D
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That nose just keeps getting longer!
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I have two Behmor's with over 300 roasts on each and a third with almost 400 roasts. I've replaced 1 dc motor and two afterburners. They work for me.
kp
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I have two Behmor's with over 300 roasts on each and a third with almost 400 roasts. I've replaced 1 dc motor and two afterburners. They work for me.
kp
Damn, what's that come to, abut $.50 per roast? Very economical!
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That nose just keeps getting longer!
Would
I
(http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ecm_harmon/images/Bull%20-%20Potty%202.gif)
you
?
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Is that a rhetorical question or something? :-\
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I have two Behmor's with over 300 roasts on each and a third with almost 400 roasts. I've replaced 1 dc motor and two afterburners. They work for me.
kp
Damn, what's that come to, abut $.50 per roast? Very economical!
Now you're talking my language.
;D
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No, but I'll bet the next Sono I buy will last a lifetime. :-[
Yea, right
([url]http://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/pinocchio1.gif[/url])
Mrs T almost killed me for selling the 1st Sono (She'd never have figured out my horse-trading grandpa!) - now I have to get another one to shush her a bit.
Oh, the sacrifices I make for that woman! ;D
Warning ... Robert is on the acquisition trail again.
Sharpen up your Sonofresco's.
;D
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SonoFresco is having a little special on new units...
Sonofresco is now offering a 0% Financing Program to help you purchase a new Sonofresco Coffee Roaster. Here's how it works:
1-lb. Roaster: with a payment of $1,000 + shipping we send you a Roaster! You agree to 6 monthly charges of $250 on your credit card which will pay off your Roaster with no additional fees.
2-lb. or Sample Roaster: with a payment of $1,500 + shipping we send you a Roaster! You agree to 8 monthly charges of $250 on your credit card which will pay off your Roaster with no additional fees.
-
SonoFresco is having a little special on new units...
Sonofresco is now offering a 0% Financing Program to help you purchase a new Sonofresco Coffee Roaster. Here's how it works:
1-lb. Roaster: with a payment of $1,000 + shipping we send you a Roaster! You agree to 6 monthly charges of $250 on your credit card which will pay off your Roaster with no additional fees.
2-lb. or Sample Roaster: with a payment of $1,500 + shipping we send you a Roaster! You agree to 8 monthly charges of $250 on your credit card which will pay off your Roaster with no additional fees.
Or you can look for a used one for a cheaper price.
;D
-
SonoFresco is having a little special on new units...
Sonofresco is now offering a 0% Financing Program to help you purchase a new Sonofresco Coffee Roaster. Here's how it works:
1-lb. Roaster: with a payment of $1,000 + shipping we send you a Roaster! You agree to 6 monthly charges of $250 on your credit card which will pay off your Roaster with no additional fees.
2-lb. or Sample Roaster: with a payment of $1,500 + shipping we send you a Roaster! You agree to 8 monthly charges of $250 on your credit card which will pay off your Roaster with no additional fees.
Or you can look for a used one for a cheaper price.
;D
I hear all those shipments get rerouted through Houston then, of all things, disappear.
;D
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SonoFresco is having a little special on new units...
Sonofresco is now offering a 0% Financing Program to help you purchase a new Sonofresco Coffee Roaster. Here's how it works:
1-lb. Roaster: with a payment of $1,000 + shipping we send you a Roaster! You agree to 6 monthly charges of $250 on your credit card which will pay off your Roaster with no additional fees.
2-lb. or Sample Roaster: with a payment of $1,500 + shipping we send you a Roaster! You agree to 8 monthly charges of $250 on your credit card which will pay off your Roaster with no additional fees.
Or you can look for a used one for a cheaper price.
;D
I hear all those shipments get rerouted through Houston then, of all things, disappear.
;D
I've heard rumors that the post office hires thieves? :o
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SonoFresco is having a little special on new units...
Sonofresco is now offering a 0% Financing Program to help you purchase a new Sonofresco Coffee Roaster. Here's how it works:
1-lb. Roaster: with a payment of $1,000 + shipping we send you a Roaster! You agree to 6 monthly charges of $250 on your credit card which will pay off your Roaster with no additional fees.
2-lb. or Sample Roaster: with a payment of $1,500 + shipping we send you a Roaster! You agree to 8 monthly charges of $250 on your credit card which will pay off your Roaster with no additional fees.
Or you can look for a used one for a cheaper price.
;D
I hear all those shipments get rerouted through Houston then, of all things, disappear.
;D
I've heard rumors that the post office hires thieves? :o
New career with the Post Office Robert?
:o
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I'm making progress. Hardware interface is complete (interface board is re-designed). I'll probably order 25 boards.
Working on a mounting design. I think I found a good cheap project box that fits nicely on the hottop. I also have a touchpad on order that will hopefully go to the right of the display.
USB interface for datalogging and PC control.
Now the plan is to see how fast I can get to 1st crack.... baseline the hottop so I'll know how fast of ramp is possible.
-
I'm making progress. Hardware interface is complete (interface board is re-designed). I'll probably order 25 boards.
Working on a mounting design. I think I found a good cheap project box that fits nicely on the hottop. I also have a touchpad on order that will hopefully go to the right of the display.
USB interface for datalogging and PC control.
Now the plan is to see how fast I can get to 1st crack.... baseline the hottop so I'll know how fast of ramp is possible.
I'm guessing you too believe the widget is impractical for the gas-heated Sono?
-
I'm making progress. Hardware interface is complete (interface board is re-designed). I'll probably order 25 boards.
Working on a mounting design. I think I found a good cheap project box that fits nicely on the hottop. I also have a touchpad on order that will hopefully go to the right of the display.
USB interface for datalogging and PC control.
Now the plan is to see how fast I can get to 1st crack.... baseline the hottop so I'll know how fast of ramp is possible.
I'm guessing you too believe the widget is impractical for the gas-heated Sono?
Nope, I think it would be perfect for the sono. Two tricks to that.
1) - be able to adjust the gas pressure (I have a device that will do it, but no Sono to test it on (since you sold mine)
2) - reading bean temperature ( might be easy to just poke one down in the beans and have a thermocouple jack to plug it in.
-
I'm making progress. Hardware interface is complete (interface board is re-designed). I'll probably order 25 boards.
Working on a mounting design. I think I found a good cheap project box that fits nicely on the hottop. I also have a touchpad on order that will hopefully go to the right of the display.
USB interface for datalogging and PC control.
Now the plan is to see how fast I can get to 1st crack.... baseline the hottop so I'll know how fast of ramp is possible.
I'm guessing you too believe the widget is impractical for the gas-heated Sono?
Nope, I think it would be perfect for the sono. Two tricks to that.
1) - be able to adjust the gas pressure (I have a device that will do it, but no Sono to test it on (since you sold mine)
2) - reading bean temperature ( might be easy to just poke one down in the beans and have a thermocouple jack to plug it in.
I've got a 2-stage gas valve, but a true variable valve was too expensive - something like $500 IIRC? And hey, I'm going to buy another Sono, and you can come visit it anytime!
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Oh, contrare senor... here is the animal you want, and only $125
(https://www.combustiondepot.com/store/images/products/1904_large.jpg)
(http://www.combustiondepot.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1904)
Tricky part is installing in after the on/off pressure valve already in the sono. You will need to do some gas plumbing. you might need the signal conditioner... which is another $90, but maybe I'll include an amplifier in the interface board.
BTW, this is the modulator valve used in later Ambex models with full gas control
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Oh, contrare senor... here is the animal you want, and only $125
([url]https://www.combustiondepot.com/store/images/products/1904_large.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.combustiondepot.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1904[/url])
Tricky part is installing in after the on/off pressure valve already in the sono. You will need to do some gas plumbing. you might need the signal conditioner... which is another $90, but maybe I'll include an amplifier in the interface board.
BTW, this is the modulator valve used in later Ambex models with full gas control
Wow! I've got a lead on a Sono from a local shop, so I might be in need of this sooner than later. I wish Continental was still in Houston so you still had business here?
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I'm making progress. Hardware interface is complete (interface board is re-designed). I'll probably order 25 boards.
Working on a mounting design. I think I found a good cheap project box that fits nicely on the hottop. I also have a touchpad on order that will hopefully go to the right of the display.
USB interface for datalogging and PC control.
Now the plan is to see how fast I can get to 1st crack.... baseline the hottop so I'll know how fast of ramp is possible.
8), Nice looking mount!
The advances Homeroasters have developed for monitor/control/datalogging for homeroasting in the last year+ have been amazing.
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I'm making progress. Hardware interface is complete (interface board is re-designed). I'll probably order 25 boards.
Working on a mounting design. I think I found a good cheap project box that fits nicely on the hottop. I also have a touchpad on order that will hopefully go to the right of the display.
USB interface for datalogging and PC control.
Now the plan is to see how fast I can get to 1st crack.... baseline the hottop so I'll know how fast of ramp is possible.
What did you come up with for speed on the ramp. Running full on with 250g I have made it in around 7 minutes.
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wow 7 mins that's fast. With 230g full on and fan speed at 1 the fastest I can get to 1C is
about 9 mins, dropping the beans at about 300-310F.
-
Drop hotter and use the fan for convection
---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.470397,-72.555585
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Your work on this fascinates me. Now that I have added a Android tablet to my equipment arsenal,
(a Motorola Xoom with a USB interface) I might be interested in acquiring some of this equipment for my Hottop when you have finished your extensive research. Do keep us all posted.
-
Ditto - I'm itching to upgrade my 8828 (original)! Saving now. :)
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Do you think this will allow control of a Sono for different amounts of bean mass? There is a used one locally...
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Bump, I know this is a long shot but I really want to mod my sono:)
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I thought I saw Milo taking orders for the Milowiget at the show, am I wrong? ;D
I actually go to see and touch the Milowidget on Sunday.
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I saw it but he asked me if I would put the finishing touches on the code.
-
I thought I saw Milo taking orders for the Milowiget at the show, am I wrong? ;D
I actually go to see and touch the Milowidget on Sunday.
Was it real?
:)
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I saw it but he asked me if I would put the finishing touches on the code.
I hope you agreed.
:)
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Does that mean that the Milowidget is going to be outfitted with a murse?
That could be ... and maybe some cheese.
:)
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It could also mean that Bold|Java will have a chance to pooch all our roasts by proxy.
Never thought of that ... but you have a point.
Guaranteed poochees or your money back.
;D
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Update on the Milowewidget (wink):
MVI 0825 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ujkWuf4RC8#ws)
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Update on the Milowewidget (wink):
You are SUCH a tease ...
The inside story (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-K_W_t7VMQ)
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Whose house is this one at now with the beta-testing?
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I know most of you won't believe this, and I don't blame you.... but I've been working on the milowidget again and it's coming along. With help from one of the members here I finally got the keypad working and now can actually control the roaster manually, as well as enter set points and ramp times.
I have a week off of work and plan to work on it a little every day. The difference between the milowidget and the homeroasters.org HT controller is you don't need a computer attached to it and will be able to enter in your profiles with the keypad.... hopefully store a few profiles and recall them.
Software isn't my strongest point, but I know what I want this to do.... and eventually I'll make it work. Once that's done then I'll interface it with a Behmor... really :)
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I don't believe it. ;)
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Will someone refresh my lazy memory -- what's the basic infrastructure? Arduino?
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I know most of you won't believe this, and I don't blame you.... but I've been working on the milowidget again and it's coming along. With help from one of the members here I finally got the keypad working and now can actually control the roaster manually, as well as enter set points and ramp times.
I have a week off of work and plan to work on it a little every day. The difference between the milowidget and the homeroasters.org HT controller is you don't need a computer attached to it and will be able to enter in your profiles with the keypad.... hopefully store a few profiles and recall them.
Software isn't my strongest point, but I know what I want this to do.... and eventually I'll make it work. Once that's done then I'll interface it with a Behmor... really :)
If it is this decade. Id like to test it. :)
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Will someone refresh my lazy memory -- what's the basic infrastructure? Arduino?
yes, and I worked with Jim Galt who built a shield for me that has I2c, Jeelabs and a hottop interface, as well as 4 thermocouple interfaces... so all you have to do is assemble it and load the code. Connects to your existing hottop ribbon cable and replaces the factory controller.
-
Will someone refresh my lazy memory -- what's the basic infrastructure? Arduino?
Wasn't it originally tried on an Abacus, with EBCDIC coding? IIRC, Moses was about 14 when milo first discussed this.
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I think a more ambitious project needs to be undertaken -- an actual middleware product that'll establish standards for connectivity to roasters and controllers, allowing arbitrary pairing of unrelated controllers (DIY or commercial) and roasters (DIY or commercial).
I'm actually serious. Imagine a market where roaster designers didn't have to worry about controller design, and controller designers didn't have to worry about roaster design. Yes, there's a sense in which each needs to worry about the other, but from a standpoint of product design, as long as you stay withing parameters you could be agnostic with respect to the other part.
Dead. Serious. Instead of a 1:1 relationship between controllers and devices, there'd be a many:many possibility space within which the state of the art could evolve.
Who is with me!? We march at dawn!
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Software isn't my strongest point, but I know what I want this to do.... and eventually I'll make it work. Once that's done then I'll interface it with a Behmor... really :)
ALL the Behmor users are dying to have more control of the roast - that is why I jumped to the Hottop. I know the Behmor isn't your primary market, but I don't know of any competitors (such as the homeroasters / Jim Galt controller for the Hottop).
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Chris, I have the "control board" with thermocouples for my Behmor. It does is show me the temperature inside the Behmor - but not the bean temperature. I think most Behmor users would like a way to control the fan and the heat during the roast - this is why I got the Hottop.
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I hacked into my Behmor a few years ago... I need to dig out my notes and then build an interface board or adapt the hottop board to the Behmor. Not difficult to do.
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I hacked into my Behmor a few years ago... I need to dig out my notes and then build an interface board or adapt the hottop board to the Behmor. Not difficult to do.
Then the Sono?
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Chris, I have the "control board" with thermocouples for my Behmor. It does is show me the temperature inside the Behmor - but not the bean temperature. I think most Behmor users would like a way to control the fan and the heat during the roast - this is why I got the Hottop.
I am a dunce when it comes to stuff like handling the interface between a control board and a coffee roaster. Doubtful I could use the milowidget for either the Hottop or the Behmor. :(
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The milowidget clearly needs to be generalized. ;D
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I hacked into my Behmor a few years ago... I need to dig out my notes and then build an interface board or adapt the hottop board to the Behmor. Not difficult to do.
I was playing with that a few years ago, just after it was released, but a certain someone was definitely not happy with my modding of the be-more. Even had a pretty good way to read BT. I quit before things got any more nasty.
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I hacked into my Behmor a few years ago... I need to dig out my notes and then build an interface board or adapt the hottop board to the Behmor. Not difficult to do.
I was playing with that a few years ago, just after it was released, but a certain someone was definitely not happy with my modding of the be-more. Even had a pretty good way to read BT. I quit before things got any more nasty.
You got Joe Behm mad at you?
???
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Yes, there was quite a bit of legalese and hand-wringing. I was kinda surprised I had not seen the same reaction to the numerous extensive Hottop mods.
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Yes, there was quite a bit of legalese and hand-wringing. I was kinda surprised I had not seen the same reaction to the numerous extensive Hottop mods.
I'm pretty sure any mods would void the warranty & manufacturer's liability. As in car mods however, once you own it you can do anything you want to it, as long as you're not reverse engineering the software for profit.
You should've heard IBM, Compaq & Apple cry the blues once hackers started over clocking the CPU and modding the operating system. (http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/packets002733.shtml)
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The be-more can be a pretty good roaster after modifying. The radiant heat application through the wire mesh has potential. Mine can hook up to my tc4 setup recording T,BT,ET,BT-RoR and voltage out the variac driving the heating elements. I prefer tweaking with the variac knob and manually dealing with each roast even when trying to repeat a profile. So haven't upgraded to the new control features. The be-more has sat in the closet for a couple years. Just got tired of being haunted and hassled.
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Update on the Milowidget.
I connected the Milowidget to the hottop yesterday afternoon. I have a 3 stage linear ramp programmed with pre-heat cycle and cooling cycle. The Milowidget controls all functions of the Hottop (motor, fan, heater, damper and cooling motor). Keypad and display both interface well now. I ran a test with no green coffee to make sure everything was working. I used a lower than normal temperature in case I had to unplug the roaster for some reason.
Preheat - 170
ramp 1 - 200 in 5 minutes
ramp 2 - hold at 205 for 5 minutes
ramp 3 - 225 in 5 minutes
I did this just to confirm the code is working and it's reading the thermocouples. All is working, but with no green in the roaster the temperature overshoots quite a bit. I'm hoping with coffee in it, that the temperature will be more stable.
Next phase is to see how quickly I can get 200 grams of green to 1st crack to figure out the steepest ramp I can program.
Once that's done I may roast a few batches and see how close the hottop will follow a linear ramp (no PID code).
Then I'll add the PID code and repeat. Then add the programming of the profiles with a menu and user input. Hopefully there is enough memory for at least 5 programmable profiles.
This version will not require a computer connection... basically a stand alone controller.
Version 2 will have a USB interface for logging and storage of additional profiles... or the Behmor interface. I haven't decided which to work on first... probably the Behmor.
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are you accepting bribes to do the Behmor next????
Susan
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Sounds good Larry.
Can't wait for your launch.
:)
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I may be mistaken, but I don't recall Larry ever committing to making these for anybody else? "Here's a napkin with some notes and a zipped file with some code..." </evil grin>
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I may be mistaken, but I don't recall Larry ever committing to making these for anybody else? "Here's a napkin with some notes and a zipped file with some code..." </evil grin>
It will be 4 years next week since I started on this... :o... I suppose other folks, and for that matter I don't remember any of that part ;D
I haven't decided yet what I'll offer. Could be a complete setup or what grinderz said. There will certainly be an agreement where I have zero liability for the use of it, if someone actually hooks it up to a roaster.
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I may be mistaken, but I don't recall Larry ever committing to making these for anybody else? "Here's a napkin with some notes and a zipped file with some code..." </evil grin>
Larry's too smart to make promises ....
And, he's a very sharing kinda guy....
So....what are the odds that this will benefit all one way or another????
Pretty darn good I'd say....
Susan
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I may be mistaken, but I don't recall Larry ever committing to making these for anybody else? "Here's a napkin with some notes and a zipped file with some code..." </evil grin>
I believe he bought his my Sono as the original test bed for the widget?
-
Some how I can't see Larry staying up late nights and weekends soldering parts for the kind of money us cheapskates would be willing to pay... While listening to us whine when ours was going to be done. ;D
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Some how I can't see Larry staying up late nights and weekends soldering parts for the kind of money us cheapskates would be willing to pay... While listening to us whine when ours was going to be done. ;D
Oh, I can see milo doing all this for karma.
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I may be mistaken, but I don't recall Larry ever committing to making these for anybody else? "Here's a napkin with some notes and a zipped file with some code..." </evil grin>
I believe he bought his my his Sono as the original test bed for the widget?
There, I corrected it for you.
;D
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I may be mistaken, but I don't recall Larry ever committing to making these for anybody else? "Here's a napkin with some notes and a zipped file with some code..." </evil grin>
I believe he bought his my his Sono as the original test bed for the widget?
There, I corrected it for you.
;D
Stirring up trouble again, eh Mikey!
(http://www.presentermedia.com/files/animsp/00006000/6703/chef_stiring_pot_anim_md_wm.gif)
-
I may be mistaken, but I don't recall Larry ever committing to making these for anybody else? "Here's a napkin with some notes and a zipped file with some code..." </evil grin>
I believe he bought his my his Sono as the original test bed for the widget?
There, I corrected it for you.
;D
Stirring up trouble again, eh Mikey!
([url]http://www.presentermedia.com/files/animsp/00006000/6703/chef_stiring_pot_anim_md_wm.gif[/url])
I just couldn't stop myself. You're set up was just perfect!
;)
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The Milowidget controls all functions of the Hottop (motor, fan, heater, damper and cooling motor). Keypad and display both interface well now.
By "damper" are you referring to the solenoid that opens the eject chute?
I am very interested in this. Would you be willing to share the pinouts of the Hottop ribbon cable? Is there a different input for each fan speed, or is it PWC? Ive been considering something similar to this with my Hottop using an Idec SmartRelay and a PID controller. I installed the same combo in my Lady Silvia with awesome results.
If you ever do choose to distribute your design please let me know, I will belly up for one. I fully understand all risk and liability resides with me. It might motivate to learn the whole arduino thing, I have been hearing a lot about it and the TC4.
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I ran a test last night to see how fast the hottop can get 200 grams of green to 1st crack.
I used a harrar I had.
Preheat to 175 for 5 minutes, charge roaster, bean temp dropped to 140. 1st crack was ~10:30 later with bean temp @345.
Seems my bean probe is either too slow or inaccurate, but as long as I know ~ where 1st crack will happen I can set the profile to that point.
I'm going to try 100 grams next to see if I can accurately bring that to 345 in 10:30 also.
Then onto tweaking the code to stabilize the roast.
to answer mikepetro's question, yes damper is the solenoid that ejects the beans.
Pinout is as follows, all 5v logic from the control board.
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First, thank you Milow!
I am a bit stumped though, what is the INT input, and how is the fan speed controlled?
BTW, if anyone is interested in how I refurbished and enhanced my Silvia espresso machine,
go to http://www.mikepetro.org/coffee/ (http://www.mikepetro.org/coffee/) (please excuse the crude html, I am out of practice).
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The INT signal is an AC zero cross indicator. The Hottop B uses this for phase angle heater control. Not sure what purpose it serves on the P models?
Jim
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The INT signal is an AC zero cross indicator. The Hottop B uses this for phase angle heater control. Not sure what purpose it serves on the P models?
Jim
It's not on all the hottop models, I included it in the interface board so the option is there to control the heater power level. Just software if the zero crossing signal is there. For other models I might build a board that would detect the AC... but that's probably version 4 or 5.
My Hottop does not have that feature.
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My Hottop does not have that feature.
Same here. Mine is an older D model. It doesn't even carry the INT signal in its connector cable.
Jim
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I fit in so well here :) I figure if this gets off the ground a little code swap and you could use it to turn on a S1, or count pulls, if that's your sort of thing ;)
Sent from my iPhone5 using Tapatalk so pardon my spelling.
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I ran a test last night to see how fast the hottop can get 200 grams of green to 1st crack.
I used a harrar I had.
Preheat to 175 for 5 minutes, charge roaster, bean temp dropped to 140. 1st crack was ~10:30 later with bean temp @345.
Isn't using 175 a bit on the low side? I use three drop temps, depending on how fast I want to roast: 215, 265 and 300. I normally roast 265g - easily gain a minute using 260 versus 215.
-
I ran a test last night to see how fast the hottop can get 200 grams of green to 1st crack.
I used a harrar I had.
Preheat to 175 for 5 minutes, charge roaster, bean temp dropped to 140. 1st crack was ~10:30 later with bean temp @345.
Isn't using 175 a bit on the low side? I use three drop temps, depending on how fast I want to roast: 215, 265 and 300. I normally roast 265g - easily gain a minute using 260 versus 215.
I don't know... the hottop from the factory has a 160 degree drop temperature... I plan to play with that and see where tipping happens
-
Bad thing is storing a profile will make you want to keep track of your drop points. I currently have 2 profiles I use, Warm and not warm. Everything else is still fully manual for me other than the drying around 290 to 315 (70% stall with an on 1).
-
I ran a test last night to see how fast the hottop can get 200 grams of green to 1st crack.
I used a harrar I had.
Preheat to 175 for 5 minutes, charge roaster, bean temp dropped to 140. 1st crack was ~10:30 later with bean temp @345.
Isn't using 175 a bit on the low side? I use three drop temps, depending on how fast I want to roast: 215, 265 and 300. I normally roast 265g - easily gain a minute using 260 versus 215.
I don't know... the hottop from the factory has a 160 degree drop temperature... I plan to play with that and see where tipping happens
The new Hottop B-2K has 168 degree drop temperature programmed. But the revised Hottop profiling note (http://www.hottopusa.com/profile2.pdf) suggests waiting until 215. I have not seen tipping at ANY temperatures on the Hottop - I reduce heat prior to first crack. Last saw tipping on my first two Behmor roasts (in 2010), where I blasted the beans with 100% heat for the entire roast.
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That would explain why mine starts beeping at 167, couple times I missed it and dropped around 200. The PITA part of it is the 356 degree self eject if you're say.. talking out the trash or answering the wife as to why your out there again roasting.
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Oh, contrare senor... here is the animal you want, and only $125
([url]https://www.combustiondepot.com/store/images/products/1904_large.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.combustiondepot.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1904[/url])
Tricky part is installing in after the on/off pressure valve already in the sono. You will need to do some gas plumbing. you might need the signal conditioner... which is another $90, but maybe I'll include an amplifier in the interface board.
BTW, this is the modulator valve used in later Ambex models with full gas control
Is this the signal conditioner you are talking about?
http://www.combustiondepot.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1908 (http://www.combustiondepot.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1908)
Is there anything else required outside of the arduino and tc4?
-
Oh, contrare senor... here is the animal you want, and only $125
([url]https://www.combustiondepot.com/store/images/products/1904_large.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.combustiondepot.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1904[/url])
Tricky part is installing in after the on/off pressure valve already in the sono. You will need to do some gas plumbing. you might need the signal conditioner... which is another $90, but maybe I'll include an amplifier in the interface board.
BTW, this is the modulator valve used in later Ambex models with full gas control
Is this the signal conditioner you are talking about?
[url]http://www.combustiondepot.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1908[/url] ([url]http://www.combustiondepot.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1908[/url])
Is there anything else required outside of the arduino and tc4?
Yes that's it, but I have never installed it, remember Tex stole my sonofresco.......
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I may attempt this sometime this year. 1st step would be controlling the valve to compensate for outside air temp.
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Oh, contrare senor... here is the animal you want, and only $125
([url]https://www.combustiondepot.com/store/images/products/1904_large.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.combustiondepot.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1904[/url])
Tricky part is installing in after the on/off pressure valve already in the sono. You will need to do some gas plumbing. you might need the signal conditioner... which is another $90, but maybe I'll include an amplifier in the interface board.
BTW, this is the modulator valve used in later Ambex models with full gas control
Is this the signal conditioner you are talking about?
[url]http://www.combustiondepot.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1908[/url] ([url]http://www.combustiondepot.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1908[/url])
Is there anything else required outside of the arduino and tc4?
Yes that's it, but I have never installed it, remember Tex stole my sonofresco.......
...and enjoyed the hell out of it!