Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: BoldJava on August 02, 2008, 07:44:22 AM
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With the group buy occurring, thought I would get the thread started over here, in hardware rather than clog up the ordering thread.
Any Q's and A's can be here for a reference thread.
One point learned while scrumming for the order: stovetops - make sure your pot that comes in contact with burner is thoroughly dried. Use lower heat setting. Think of using a wire grid spacer on the burner.
B|Java
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Yes you will need a wire spacer on when using the Yama pots on an electric stove top. They come with the spacer wire but I also made one from a coat hanger that works just as well. The reason being is that the bottom of the Yama pots are concave where the Bodum Santos, which doesn't need the spacer, has a flat bottom. For some reason the concave bottom can lead to cracks or breakage.
I have also heard that setting a pot on the stove that has water on the outside of the pot can lead to breakage.
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Thinking ahead I decided to look for a source of butane for my upcoming purchase. The only thing I see in the stores around here are tiny cans of expensive butane for filling cigarette lighters and drug adict's torches >:D Searching on the internet I found that Asian food stores might have what I'm looking for but our local Asian food store blew away in a tornado a year ago :-[ So I thought camping suppliers might have it. Started at Wally World. No luck, only propane. Searched the internet again for camping stove suppliers. Seems like propane or propane/isobutane mix is all that's available. Some of you are using the butane burners do you use the small cans or is there a source for a reasonable supply? Chains such as Dick's sporting goods which we have locally or Bass Pro or Cabellas which are 100 miles from here ?
Walt
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I bought one of the butane burners on eBay to go with my Yama that I had received as a present. For butane, I buy a small can they sell for filling lighters at a dollar store. They will last quite a long time. If you preheat the water in a microwave oven before putting it in the Yama, it doesn't take too long for the butane burner to do it's thing.
kelppaddy
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Cigar/Tobacco shops should have larger sized cans of butane for less than $10.
The last can I bought is called "Vector" 'Quintplus filtered 5+ times' 320ml for $5.95 Made in Korea I use it to fill my Xikar 3-jet drug addict torch >:D
They say the more the gas is distilled, the cleaner the burn and the less ash in your jets.
-Stubbie
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Stubbie,
Next everyone will want you to distro the "drug addict torch!" >:D Jim
Thanks for the advice!
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Stubbie,
Next everyone will want you to distro the "drug addict torch!" >:D Jim
Thanks for the advice!
Here is the lighter (http://www.xikar.com/product_lighter_trezo.asp#) I treated myself to when I got into cigars. In a pinch, it might very well be able to send my coffee 'up north' in my Vacpot ;D
-Stubbie
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Ok so now for the Tim (Tool man) Taylor spin....
first you need....
(http://www.annapolishomebrew.com/images/carboy6.jpg)
for the water, then you need
(http://www.jossresearch.org/pictures/kilns/paragon/burner_c.c6.jpg)
to heat it ;D
where to find big glass tube, filter and glass bucket for the grinds :icon_scratch:
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Reading away to get ready for the day when Mr. Yellow-Red-Trim shows up at your house. I am calling it, The Big Spill Day. Per Mark Prince's suggestions:
>>>6 grams per 100 ml <39 grams per 22 oz>
as a starting point. Grind is finer than drip, but not as fine as moka pot. About 1/3 the difference (erring on the side of drip). This is with a cloth filter....>>>
Just a suggested starting point for all of you. YMMV. As well, the thread that discusses Prince's article is at 100 posts and growing. I can see where all this Yama-asm will go with our group:
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/articles/howtos/370176. We need to get GaryBT3 going in this discussion. I think he knows a thing or three about syphons.
Need more inspiration?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3JcOndpcGU[/youtube]
B|Java
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Zippo (http://www.zippo.com/Products/Accessories/3800.aspx?RowStart=&ZippoProductNumber=3800§ion=Accessories) has butane refills. I use this for my cigar torch and should be perfect for the Yama torch. ;D
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I'm not an 'expert" by any means...just a regular user of vacpots over the last 3 or so years ;)
FWIW, if you have a smooth-top electric stove, then you do not need to use a diffuser. I have used my little 20oz 5 cup Yama without any problems at all. I also collect usable vacpots from the '30's - 50's, and use the same stove with them. Again, I have not experienced any problems.
The 1st bit of advice I'll share is to use just water in it, without any coffee grounds a couple of times. I use a cloth filter with my Yama about 60% of the time, and a Cory brand or Silex glass filter when the mood strikes me.
When you are 1st getting used to 'how' the vacpot process works, you 'should' start timing how long the process takes. Your goal is 4 minutes + or - 15 seconds, Total Extraction time.
I begin by filling my Yama lower globe to the 5 cup ( 20 oz ) line with high quality H2O, wipe the bottom dry, and place it on the stove and set it to level 8 on a 10 scale. Assemble the upper globe with the cloth filter assembly, and marry the upper globe to the lower globe. Keeping a close eye on everything, when the water starts to push North into the upper globe, I cut the heat to level 3, and slide the vacpot 1/2 on and 1/2 off of the burner. Again, I use a smooth, glass top stove, it's not going to fall or go anywhere...
What happens next is that 80% of the water is now in the upper globe, and @ 200F + or - 5F. If you remove the vacpot from the burner entirely, within 30 seconds the Southern Pull will occur, and the water will vacuum into the lower globe. The goal here is to observe that everything is working (sealed), without adding in the coffee grounds.
Cloth filters are a little more forgiving than glass filters when it comes to grind quality. A glass filter will 'bounce' if the water is too hot which means that you have too much heat, and you need to control that, otherwise, you will experience a stall and a bunch of fines in the end cup.
I use my trusty little Rocky grinder to fill up 1/2 cup (volume) of ground coffee, the grinds are approximately the size of beach sand. It won't do you any good to know my grind setting #. (it's somewhere between espresso and drip) This is the variable that you need to work out for yourself. It's the one factor that determines the 'contact' time.
A typical time for me is (once the water is up into the upper globe and the heat is cut to say level 4) to then add in the grounds and start the timer, after 2 minutes, remove from the heat source, and time the Southern pull until the vacuum is finished. ( the bubbles that occur after the coffee is vacuumed dry) if your bubbles occur at the 4 minute (total extraction time), you are good to go. If not, then you need to make an adjustment, let the mix go to 2.5 or 3 minutes, if the southern draw is too fast. The coffee grounds and water are still in contact with each other the entire time. if the total extraction time is only 3 minutes, the result will be a weak brew, if the time goes to 5 minutes, it will be bitter.
Oh, yeah, another thing to watch out for is the roast level, a darker roast ( FC++) or Vienna roast is oily, and this will affect the time as well ( slower extraction times). The fresher the coffee, the more the coffee will bloom, add in the grounds slowly, stir them in with a spoon if your coffee has rested less than 5 days.
Once you taste the exceptional coffee that a vacpot can produce, it will all be worth it.
It took me around a month to really 'get it', and all the 'trouble' to get there is really an enjoyable experimental journey that will reward you for years to come. The guide that Mark Prince put together on Coffee Geek is worth printing, and using. And he explains things better than I do :D
Gary
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Cloth filters are a little more forgiving than glass filters when it comes to grind quality. A glass filter will 'bounce' if the water is too hot which means that you have too much heat, and you need to control that, otherwise, you will experience a stall and a bunch of fines in the end cup.
Good heavens, this post freaks me out. Great stuff -- but also humbling for a guy who hasn't begun to master the KMB either. ;-)
Thanks for the data dump! Can't wait to try the thing.
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I have been using Harios with alcohol or butane burners for approximately 17 years, now. My rule of thumb is to use a very fine grind, start with the grounds in the top, give a stir just as the last of the water is coming to the top, and leave the flame on until no grinds are floating on the top. For that "mind-blowing mound" that some put on their cell-phone screen, I give a quick stir just as the coffee begins its trip back down. Gives great results. BTW: In Taiwan, they usually say no more than one minute extraction, but I believe that is because they are dealing with sub-par beans.
As an asside, I called Avenue18 and asked about the halogen heater. They said they are out because they have to convert from 100V to 120V, but I should expect the price to be around US$340. Oomph!
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As an asside, I called Avenue18 and asked about the halogen heater. They said they are out because they have to convert from 100V to 120V, but I should expect the price to be around US$340. Oomph!
Is it a halogen bulb in a fancy frame that will not burn up if water drops on it ?? or is it some special halogen ??? does any body know?!?!
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Good heavens, this post freaks me out. Great stuff -- but also humbling for a guy who hasn't begun to master the KMB either. ;-)
This from the guy that has the longest thread on CGeek about the AeroPress inverted double pump reverse lay up? Rasqual, please, transfer the doubt to energy and creativity and make the Yama the pot for which the world is clamoring.
B|Java
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I'm not an 'expert" by any means...just a regular user of vacpots over the last 3 or so years ;)
FWIW, if you have a smooth-top electric stove, then you do not need to use a diffuser. I have used my little 20oz 5 cup Yama without any problems at all. I also collect usable vacpots from the '30's - 50's, and use the same stove with them. ...
Gary
My prep:
^ 5 "cup" level, runs just a hair over 22 oz (.65 L)
^ 45g of PNG Kimel Peaberry
^ grind level, very fine pour over
NB: Most important ingredient - water, needs to be Wisconsin spring water
Heat diffuser is not needed on gas. I used it with a clean and rinsed (and very important - dry) coffee base.
Technique - needs some work
^ 22 ounces of water in base. Electric stove on Med plus (6.5 out of 10)
^ At 7:00 minutes, water began moving to top (dropped stove to Med - 5 out of 10)
^ Water on bottom began boiling and whooooooooooooosh, water moved to top. Stirred bloom once.
^ B|Java panicked and immediately moved burner to Low, 2 out of 10
^ Bad move, a hair of water remains so pot was safe
^ Moving it to low caused vacuum to break and whooooooooooosh, water went to base at 8:30
Cup:
^ Tad underextracted by my tastes
^ Delicate, maybe refined catches it better?
^ Very clean, but not squeaky clean
^ Accentuates aspects of a cup
The PNG's marmalade exploded midway through the cup. The cup seemed brighter than my usual KMB or Bodum pourover. Too bright and fruity for the Czarina ... she apologized. Very Midwestern bride (Scandihoovian roots).
Next run will be:
^ Put coffee in after the water is moving north more rapidly. I think it pulled out acids and tons of caffeine at lower temps.
^ Leave the burner at medium for a 120 second extraction.
Mechanics:
^ I have chaffy coffee from the Gene Cafe. It appeared in the cup, along with some sludge, not unlike a press pot. I may need to look at how I placed the filter in the pot, making sure it is a bit tighter.
Thoughts:
^ Delightful prep
^ Very tactile, hands on style - sensory ladened
^ Will be fun to see what the unit does with different aspects of origins
^ Will take the pot into the kitchen supply outfit in town and have them suggest a brush (vase brush?) to help rinse out the pot.
Would I buy it again? Does the Episcopal church have problems? Did the Dodgers play in Brooklyn? Is Peter an old, stubborn German?
Great fun.
B|Java
[Pics below, as I took my first run at the Yama this morning.]
1) Yama with Navy cup for comparison
2) Yama meets Kenmore (Irish and Hoklo 福佬 greetings exchanged)
3) Yama gets baptised
4) Retro colors for retro pot - "Whoosh"
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the AeroPress inverted double pump reverse lay up?
Hahahahah!
Nothin' but net! ;D
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Who you callin' old?!
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2nd run at Yolanda Yama
^ 45g of finely ground pourover, Sumatran Gayo
^ 6.5/10 electric stove with diffuser
^ Permit 2.5 cups of the 5 cups to move north before adding coffee (170 degrees in Northern waters)
^ 12 seconds later, whoosh, rest moves north (did happy dance, mimicking 'whoosh' sound)
^ Left burner at 6.5; didn't touch it
^ At 1:45 after whoosh, coffee moved south on its own
Very, very clean. Again, has an ability to accentuate a characteristic. In this cup, it was the nicest nutty chocolates that hadn't made such a pronounced statement with a pourover, 3 days ago.
Made sure filter was seated better. Hint sludge, no chaff. Yes.
Closer, on the road to Nirvana.
B|Java
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Filter cleaning tip.
Rinse under very hot water and scrub with the grouphead brush from your espresso setup. Really cleaned it up. (Gary mentions below that using the brush shortens the filter shelf life)
http://ourcoffeebarn.com/estore/product_info.php?products_id=1233
B|Java
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Filter cleaning tip.
[snip]
Use a glass rod ;)
In all seriousness, I've been happy with my Cona glass rod that I'm using with the Yama 8-cup. That said, it's had a tendency to stall, even when I wait until most of the water is up north before dumping in the grounds. I recently got my mitts on a vintage Cory glass rod--problem solved. I don't know how well the Cory or Cona rods work with the 5-cup Yama models, but I'll report back late this week when I've returned from my trip, and the DHL box has arrived. I've roasted the following DP Ethiopians for the first round of testing:
Korate Natural Sidamo
Bagersh IMV
Ecafe Shilcho Natural Sidamo
DP Limu (from SM)
DP Golocha (from SM)
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I recently got my mitts on a vintage Cory glass rod--problem solved.
BlJava, it would be a swell Christmas present if you would source approx 50 vintage Cory glass rods and do a group buy for us.
Hahahaha! ;D
But seriously, do we store the filters in the fridge between uses, is that the general procedure?
John F
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<snip>
I don't know how well the Cory or Cona rods work with the 5-cup Yama models, but I'll report back late this week when I've returned from my trip, and the DHL box has arrived.
Cory rods work great in my Yama 5 cup.
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I have also found that there is less of a chance of stalling your vac pot if you mix the slurry by going back and forth instead of stirring in a circular motion. When you stir in a circular motion all the grounds go to the center and when the brew is being vacuumed back into the bottom pot, all the grounds get sucked right on top of the filter in a really thick layer, making it more prone to stalling. I have found the glass rods tend to stall more when I stir. When you mix the slurry by going back and forth the grounds are more evenly distributed when the pot vacuums down, and the grounds don't have the tendency to clog the filter like stirring can.
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I use a cory rod in my 8c model and I stalled constantly, even with my fancy Anfim grinder. Someone gave me a cheapo Bodum antigua conical grinder and I haven't had one stalled roast since. The moral of the story is that the grind is critical, but I wont go so far as to recommend a particular grinder.
BTW, This is the grinder. (totally inappropriate for espresso, noisy, and somewhat messy)
(http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/zaccardis_2015_104438069)
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Cleaning afterwards is fairly simple.
I let the grounds 'set', for about 10 minutes by placing the top globe in the stand/cover, while I enjoy my coffee. I use a tablespoon to scoop out the grounds ( I compost them ) and then rinse it off with the cloth filter still attached, add a drop or two of dish detergent, and use a long handled kitchen scrub brush and gently scrub the filter. Remember, it's cloth and scrubbing like hell will cause it to wear down the fibers fairly quickly. Once thats done I take out the filter, rinse clean with hot water and dry it off with a lint free towel.
I have never put it in the dishwasher, nor do I allow my spouse to take care of it... Anyways...
I soak the filter in a half-glass of water in the fridge between uses, when it starts to darken I'll soak it in some Cafiza along with the vacpot for a couple of hours. Some people use Oxy clean, I happen to have a Livia 90S and lots of espresso machine cleaner, and it works well for me.
BTW, I normally get 4 to 6 months out of each filter.
Glass CORY rods work freakin' great!
Control the bounce... that is if you hear a glass ding ding sound...you are bouncing...and you will get sludge in your cup and probably a stall with it. Control the heat...
I wait until all the water is in the upper globe, and a moderate heat setting on the stove, wait until it stabilizes and is just barely bubbling before adding in your coffee.
Once you add in the coffee...your extraction time from the moment that you add in the grounds, until the final bubbles after the vacuum has happened should be no more or less than 4 minutes....
Otherwise, you need to control your grinder settings... about 1/2 way between drip / espresso is a good starting point...too fine, and the southern pull will take too long. You gotta work with what you have got, or get a better grinder... A typical southern pull should take about 1 to 1.5 minutes. You reverse the time it takes the pull to occur, ( say 1.5 minutes), and that tells you how long to leave the grounds in in this case 2.5 minutes)
BTW if anyone lacks patience...I'll offer to buy their vacpots from them for a discounted rate... of course ;)
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I soak the filter in a half-glass of water in the fridge between uses, when it starts to darken I'll soak it in some Cafiza along with the vacpot for a couple of hours.
When JohnF mentioned it this morning, I thought he was making an oblique reference to another thread about some fine insects...thought he was busting chops. Whoops, JohnF be in the know.
Glass CORY rods work freakin' great!
There are 5.75" (Cory Rod) and 6.5" (New Cory Rod) ones. Will both work in a 5 cupper?
B|Java
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My Cory rods are 5.75"'s...
I pulled one out of it's original box. :D
I have spares..just in case ;)
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Mine is the 5.5".
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I scored a Corey glass only vac pot in the dark basement corner of an antique store half way to Rockford, it seals on ground glass between the top and bottom... had to get a filter rod on ebay but so far its working out pretty good. I suspect the glass rod gives the cleanest taste with out loosing the oils in the filter.... I wonder if a filter made from the same stuff rasqual uses on his AP would allow the oil with out the glass??
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... I wonder if a filter made from the same stuff rasqual uses on his AP would allow the oil with out the glass??
I am amazed that it took us to page 3 before that was suggested <WSAgrin>
B|Java
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thought he was busting chops. Whoops, JohnF be in the know.
It goes for any filter media that you are not going to have in constant service.
Things are cool as long as you are flowing through it but when you stop it's not so cool. I have an ice maker filter used to draw brewing water and it's the same routine. When not in use bag it up and stick it in the freezer to keep bacteria down. ;)
John F
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...Once you add in the coffee...your extraction time from the moment that you add in the grounds, until the final bubbles after the vacuum has happened should be no more or less than 4 minutes....
Gary, what ratios of water to coffee are you using?
B|Java
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Dave I use (more or less) the SCAA guidelines.
8 tbls + 24 oz water = 1/2 cup dry grounds.
Yama is 20 - 22 oz water.
4 tbs = 1/4 cup.
I tend to add in more grounds, instead of less, blame that on the 4 years of living in Germany :D
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Dave I use (more or less) the SCAA guidelines.
8 tbls + 24 oz water = 1/2 cup dry grounds.
Yama is 20 - 22 oz water.
4 tbs = 1/4 cup.
I tend to add in more grounds, instead of less, blame that on the 4 years of living in Germany :D
I will have to go weigh 1/2 cup of beans. I have two marriages. One to the Czarina; the second to my scale when playing with coffee. It is symptomatic of what we call the Schmidt Syndrome in our neck of the woods.
B|Java
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I will have to go weigh 1/2 cup of beans. I have two marriages. One to the Czarina; the second to my scale when playing with coffee. It is symptomatic of what we call the Schmidt Syndrome in our neck of the woods.
B|Java
You'll thank me for that someday.
I did a rough calculation for you B|Java, based on my press pot ratio, and for a 22oz pot I would suggest using 34.571428571428562 grams of coffee. But you should feel free to round it off to 34.6g.
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I will have to go weigh 1/2 cup of beans. I have two marriages. One to the Czarina; the second to my scale when playing with coffee. It is symptomatic of what we call the Schmidt Syndrome in our neck of the woods.
B|Java
You'll thank me for that someday.
I did a rough calculation for you B|Java, based on my press pot ratio, and for a 22oz pot I would suggest using 34.571428571428562 grams of coffee. But you should feel free to round it off to 34.6g.
My Sumatra whole beans weight in at 44 grams for a 1/2 cup.
B|Java
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Just got mine tonight. Will have that first cup in the AM. Thanks a million, Dave!
By the way; back in the day, when I had a vacuum pot (cave man days), we stirred the slurry when it got in the upper pot. Seeing that flat oar end on the spoon makes me wonder if it should be stirred. No mention of it. Any ideas along that line?
Gatewood
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...The coffee grounds and water are still in contact with each other the entire time. if the total extraction time is only 3 minutes, the result will be a weak brew, if the time goes to 5 minutes, it will be bitter.
...
Gary
I think this is one of those personal taste issues. You are grinding finer than pourever with a 4-minute steep. That would be too much extraction for me. That is the length of time I use for press pots but the grounds are like boulders then.
B|Java, still learning.
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thought he was busting chops. Whoops, JohnF be in the know.
It goes for any filter media that you are not going to have in constant service.
Things are cool as long as you are flowing through it but when you stop it's not so cool. I have an ice maker filter used to draw brewing water and it's the same routine. When not in use bag it up and stick it in the freezer to keep bacteria down. ;)
John F
Just snagged a nice 5.5 " Cory rod on eBay that I bid on before leaving for work this morning.
B|Java
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Just got mine tonight. Will have that first cup in the AM. Thanks a million, Dave!
By the way; back in the day, when I had a vacuum pot (cave man days), we stirred the slurry when it got in the upper pot. Seeing that flat oar end on the spoon makes me wonder if it should be stirred. No mention of it. Any ideas along that line?
Gatewood
I stir when first I add my coffee and I stir again just before removing the pot from the heat. Stir in a back and forth motion and not circular. Stirring in a circular motion creates a vortex of grounds that can collect on top of the filter and seriously slow down or stall the brewing process.
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OK you guys you all have me drowling!!! Can't wait for the vac pot to make it to the door step. By that time you will have it all worked out for me and I won't waste a drop! Can't wait! ;D Jim
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OK you guys you all have me drowling!!! Can't wait for the vac pot to make it to the door step. By that time you will have it all worked out for me and I won't waste a drop! Can't wait! ;D Jim
I potted the Kenya Karakuta in Yolanda this morning. I came home and Czarina said, "the fruits in that coffee this morning -- I drown it in milk and the fruits still sang out." I asked her, "blackberry wine?" She said, "that's it."
It is a great pot for singling out a characteristic and putting it on a pedestal.
B|Java
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More on the filter....
After giving it a boiling water bath and watching it have no effect whatsoever I gave it 5 min. in Oxyclean.
It came out sparkling clean so I gave it a quick 170ish degree clean water bath to flush it and let it air dry. The filter looks good and I feel confident that it's squeaky clean and no need to keep in in water/fridge.
I wasn't digging on the trapped coffee oils very much and I think oxyclean and air dry is going to be my procedure to start with.
John F
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Remember to clip the spring/filter over the end of the rod that drops down from the brewing portion of the unit.
Last night, I didn't have the filter clipped in well and it kept bobbing. Talk about a chewy, grounds filled cup.
On the learning path, B|Java
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First two rounds with the table top Yama this morning. Extraction technique modified from what I use with the stovetop 8 cup version.
I used the Cory rod with great success--grind was a hair finer than drip.
37.5 g for 22 oz. (converted from the 60g per 32 oz. I use with the 8-cup).
First pot was the Costa Rica Royal Select Decaf (CINC House needed coffee). Not bad--though there was nothing exciting to pull out of this cup--it being decaf and all.
2nd Pot: Uganda Bugisu A, the last remnants of my sample. This one accentuated the Java-like body that the cuppers mentioned. Clean, honey with that malty finish.
Now, one last thought on technique. Some of the water is absorbed by the coffee during brewing, like any other process. I've found that that nose on the coffee improves if I add a bit of hot water to nearly match the 8-cup line (on that pot). Most extractions finish around 7.5 on that pot, by my estimation. Your taste may vary, but I've run cups side to side with and without that little extra hot water, and I find the one with a hint of water is better balanced.
I'll be checking this out with the 5-cup tabletop, to see if I have similar results. As I have sick kid duty today, the first of the Ethiopian roasts is about to hit the pot.
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Is there any consequences for doing a single cup (8oz) in the five cup Yama? The vacuum happens as normal with plenty of water woooshing up leaving a bit in the belly of the beast. I've been getting disappointing cups, but I feel it's more to do with time/grind and understanding how long it takes for the vacuum to break. Great tips so far, however.
I may just be dense. I have trouble getting a great brew from anything but my espresso machine and inverted AP with custom filter.
Me thinks me needs practice.
- -Barrett
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I have read that making anything less than 1/2 of a pot in any vac pot will result in a weak brew because of the small amount of water that stays in the bottom. Most of the cups I use on a regular basis are 16oz, so I use my Yama 5 cup for single cup brews and the larger Santos if my wife is drinking with me. I stick with an AP Americano for the 8 oz. cups.
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Did you try making the full 5 to see if it's better?
My curiosity is on.. ;D
John F
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I was looking through Ebay and I came across this beautiful vintage Hario vac pot. Nice.
http://tiny.cc/Fbhg7
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But does the small amount of water matter if there is enough grounds? The water is still a little shy of 200F. The main reason that I tried a smaller amount first was because the box was touting that you can do any amount. Hah! I'll try a 16oz batch (line 3) in the AM. I fly solo in my apartment, so line five is pushing it in one sitting.
I just timed some plain water vacuums... on my stove a five cup pot takes 40 seconds to break the vacuum after the heat is cut while the 8oz cup takes about 35 seconds.
I just can't get it out of my head... If there is enough water to accomplish the vacuum then why won't it come out right?
- -Barrett
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But does the small amount of water matter if there is enough grounds? The water is still a little shy of 200F. The main reason that I tried a smaller amount first was because the box was touting that you can do any amount. Hah! I'll try a 16oz batch (line 3) in the AM. I fly solo in my apartment, so line five is pushing it in one sitting.
I just timed some plain water vacuums... on my stove a five cup pot takes 40 seconds to break the vacuum after the heat is cut while the 8oz cup takes about 35 seconds.
I just can't get it out of my head... If there is enough water to accomplish the vacuum then why won't it come out right?
- -Barrett
You may want to try an alternate approach to your goal. First step--master the full pot preparation, so that you don't even have to think before you make that pot. Once the full pot preparation is in your blood, then you will have a better insight into what you'll have to do to make the smaller amount work.
Of course, my solution is to make the full pot and dump the contents into a good thermos or carafe. Wash, dry, and your locked and loaded for the next pot, or you can finish off the remainder of the carafe/thermos.
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But does the small amount of water matter if there is enough grounds? The water is still a little shy of 200F. The main reason that I tried a smaller amount first was because the box was touting that you can do any amount. Hah! I'll try a 16oz batch (line 3) in the AM. I fly solo in my apartment, so line five is pushing it in one sitting.
I just timed some plain water vacuums... on my stove a five cup pot takes 40 seconds to break the vacuum after the heat is cut while the 8oz cup takes about 35 seconds.
I just can't get it out of my head... If there is enough water to accomplish the vacuum then why won't it come out right?
- -Barrett
I may be totally off base in my thinking, but here is my take on making less than a full pot....
No matter how much coffee you are brewing you will always have the same amount of water remaining in the bottom of the pot-if I had to guess I would say that 1.5 or 2 oz stays in the bottom of the pot. If you are making an 8 oz cup that means that 6-6.5 oz of water is migrating into the top bowl while the rest remains in the bottom. The coffee is going to soak up some of the water, so if you put in 8 oz of water and 6.5 oz oz goes into the grounds at the top, 1.5 oz of water remains in to bottom, and for arguments sake we will say that the grounds will absorb .5 oz of water. That means when the coffee gets pulled back into the bottom pot you end up with an about 6:1 ratio of coffee to water.
If you made a full pot of coffee, 22 oz, you would still have the same amount of water remain in the bottom of the pot, again probably about 1.5 oz. You could probably assume that you are going to have about 18-19 oz of water making it's way back to the bottom when the brewing is done, still assuming that the grounds are going to absorb some of the liquid. That would give you an approximately 18:1 coffee to water ratio, not nearly as diluted as the 8 oz brew.
You could add extra grounds to compensate for the diluted brew if you were only making an 8 oz cup, but it's probably going to be a matter of experimentation to find out exactly how much extra coffee to add so that the resulting coffee is the same strength as it would be making a full pot.
I use my vac pot once a day at least, and most of the time twice a day. IMHO, a vac pop is much like an AP in that there are many variables to consider: grind, amount of coffee used, filtering method, steep time, etc. All of these can influence the cup. I don't think water temp is really that much of a factor because of the way the vac pot operates. When water in the bottom reaches a certain temperature the vacuum is created and the water goes into the top. From my measurements, once all the water has gone into the top it's temp is about 202*F. By the time I grind my coffee and add it to the water the temp is in the neighborhood of 198*F or so. I have found that these temp readings are pretty consistent.
I always make a full pot when I brew and any extra coffee goes into a thermos to keep it hot. I'm to the point now that I know exactly how much coffee to add (I use a plastic measuring cup with a mark for my 5 cup and my 8 cup) and the whole process has become almost like second nature to me, but it's taken me making a few dozen pots to get to where I am now. Some of my first attempts were nothing short of horrible :-X. Keep practicing and you will get it down pat.
Clear as mud? :)
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Fantastic explanation, Headchange! That should be useful to most of the Vacnoobs.
Thanks, cfsheridan, I did a 16oz batch this morning, and while it may have been a tad sour (under extracted... I won't eliminate too few grounds, either.), I got much better Fruit Loop berry blast from the Korate natural that you distroed. You and Headchange must be right about the dilution variable.
My grind was fairly fine, maybe white sugar sized. I normally do a good rounded tablespoon per 3oz, but I think I came short this morning.
I brought the water to a simmer in the pot and attached the top part with the coffee already inside.
The water immediately gurgled up and I dropped the heat, stirred, and let it go for 1:20 until I cut the heat.
The coffee was sucked dry by 2:30, so 70 seconds from the time that I offed the heat to when the grounds were bled dry.
I'll begin increasing the time 30 seconds at a time until I reach a good extraction. I've seen everywhere from 40 seconds to 4 minutes, and yet grind size is rarely spoken of...
Thanks!
- -Barrett
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My tabletop Yama has arrived! No damage at all! :angel:
Looks like they changed the cloth filter design to a "2 way" filter. The cloth filters with a draw string are meant for the older style filter assembly. The "2 way" filter is smaller, does not have a draw string and has an additional hole in the center...
However, the assembled filters fit both just fine. And a quick check with a genuine CORY rod looks good.
I'll buy some butane after work tomorrow and fire it up this weekend.
Thanks for distributing this, Dave...it looks pretty nifty and the butane burner has got to be selling for around $40 all by itself...this was a heck of a bargain. :D
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My tabletop Yama has arrived! No damage at all! :angel:
...
This is good news. Jim Spain lost a pot and globe to a puncture (have replacements on the way to him from Oregon). The lion's share of deliveries are today and tomorrow and I am looking at DHL during this process as a repeat, as well as a 2nd and continuing group buy.
They are delightful ways to prepare coffee. I have used it every day this week...love the cup and tactile nature of the process.
B|Java
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Ladies, Gentleman and the majority of the rest of you,
Dave has done a great job! This is the first time in many years that I ever had a broken shipment!!!! Please know that this is the exception to the rule and if all goes well I'll be brewing by Monday with replacement components to the Vac Pot. I've been reading all the posts to the thread and I'm actually glad mine will be a bit late getting started since I can read all about your experiences and learn! Dave is a primary example of what this club is all about! GREAT PEOPLE who care about each other and in Dave's case a great, reliable, and example of what's good in the world today! THANKS DAVE for the distro!!!! ;D Jim
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Thanks Jim. You're kind. A puncture of some sort got Jim's -- right thru the inner and outer packaging.
The group came thru with the bacon on this distribution. I had $1500 worth of Yamas/shipping and the group (every individual) paid within less than 48 hours. Unbeatable -- and makes life easier at this end. We will do a repeat in time for Christmas shopping.
Oh, sipping a Yama Sumatran and loving it.
B|Java
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Ah, that kind of sucks, Jim. At least, maybe, you can learn from slow little me. ??? ;D
Well, I finally got my Yama groove on! :D
Water to the 3-mark
Let it vacuum to the top and stabilize
Added sugar sized grinds and stirred
Let it go for a minute, cut the heat, after another minute the last of the air was bubbling southwards.
(Basically did everything that was already advised here...)
Drinking the natural El Salvador, and maaaaaaaaaan. 8)
I'm not sure what to do without the sludge at the bottom and no missing body.
Thanks, B|Java! Like the struggle, love the success.
- -Barrett
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Well I got my butane, copied the experiences of other, copied the article from "Coffee Geek" and now am awaiting the replacement glass pieces. I'm glad the broken Yama came to me instead of someone else. God has instilled patience in my life and I have also become a better listener.
I hope to be brewing next week, get the art of the vac pot down, and that little booger is going in the car on vacation with me to Virginia Beach via the "Sky Line Drive." Great coffee over looking the ocean with friends and a good book. Life is good!
Jim ;D
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A tale of grams, scoops, and what happens when you are not paying attention.
Long story short I was telling Staylor I used the provided scoop to measure coffee for the Yama and not a gram scale....he gave me the stink eye. :-\ We did some testing and (surprise) scoops are not very consistent.
Fast forward to my bat cave where I proceeded to put 5 scoops of beans (what the included directions call for) onto my scale about 30-40 times looking for trends. An important note is that all I have done so far is follow the recommended dose of 5 scoops per 5 cup pot. So I started weighing....
50g
55g
55g
54g
60g
58g
55g
55g
60g
55g
I was finding 55g to come up a lot but for whatever reason I figured I would try my highest mark and loaded 60g of coffee for a 5 cup pot..Don't get ahead of the story! ;D
I brewed a 60g batch and the bloom flew up to the absolute max without overflowing.
Everything else went along just fine and the cup was...................good. It was a Brazil blend that had tons of milk chocolate in the cup. It had a SUPER profound depth to the cup but about half way into the mug I started feeling like I just drank 6 doubles or something. I started thinking it over. Man 60g is a lot of coffee for a 20oz mug. How freaking much caffiene is in this cup?
I came to this thread to refresh my memory of what Chad recommended for grams of coffee and it was.. 37.5 I was 60% over. :o :o
No wonder the bloom was so humongous.
I am not surprised at all about my "leisurely" ready, fire, aim approach but I am surprised at how drinkable that cup was when it was so far out of spec. It should have been an over extracted nightmare but it wasn't. If I had not had 3 doubles and a "regulation" 20oz mug of drip earlier in the day I would have finished it but 1/2 is all I could do before I was getting jumpy. Rare for me but I was feeling it in a big way and only when I discovered I was 60% over did I understand why.
60g it's interesting. ;D
Anyway, from here forward I think I'll be dialing it down several notches but in case anybody is wondering about superdosing the Yama I found it makes a cup that is much more drinkable than I expected.....dangerously so I might add and my next pot will be 20g lighter. ;)
John F
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You shouldn't get overextracted coffee by overdosing. You might get overly strong, but the coffee shouldn't be overextracted in the sense of too much mass taken out of the coffee.
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Dave, Thanks for doing this distro...all day long at work (10 hours) all I could think about was where to score some butane... :icon_scratch:
Lucky for me the PX on Fort Riley was only a block away from my office, so I was able to score a couple of 2.75 oz cans for $2.90 each. Driving home, I realized that I hadn't a clue on how to refill the burner. Long story, short version, I managed to figure it out with the included instruction sheet.
I then filled up my cordless Krups hot water kettle, and proceeded to get busy. Since I had a little experience with a vacpot the switchover was painless. I rinsed off the glassware, and washed the "2-way" filter assembly then did a batch without any grounds. Worked Perfectly. Threw the water down the sink as I could make out little tiny bits of filter material floating around...not "Good Drinks" ;)
Next batch I used a 60/40 blend of Joe's distro of Harar Bagerish roasted to a City Plus & Dave's Java Pancoer roasted to a Full City on a 5 day rest.... I'm drinking it now... This coffee rocks :headbang:
I used 1/2 cup of grinds or 110 ml and 22 oz of water & a 2 minute steep time, it finished @ 4:05, not bad for an educated guess.
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You shouldn't get overextracted coffee by overdosing. You might get overly strong, but the coffee shouldn't be overextracted in the sense of too much mass taken out of the coffee.
You might have me there.....
I could be using the word overextracted wrong just to say "too much". ;D
I thought it should taste really bad to overdose the coffee as greatly as I did but it was shockingly better than I believe any other prep would have had it. Know what I mean?
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You shouldn't get overextracted coffee by overdosing. You might get overly strong, but the coffee shouldn't be overextracted in the sense of too much mass taken out of the coffee.
You might have me there.....
I could be using the word overextracted wrong just to say "too much". ;D
I thought it should taste really bad to overdose the coffee as greatly as I did but it was shockingly better than I believe any other prep would have had it. Know what I mean?
John, think of overdosing like this;
IF you dose your portafilter (7 grams) on your espresso machine, what happens when you use a double filter (14 grams) or if you are twisted, like me a triple (21 gram) basket? Same volume of water, more coffee, stronger taste, probably not bitter, just stronger.
IF you are pulling a shot, and your shot goes over 25 seconds and it begins to blond out then you are, over-extracting. Right? And the bitter caffeine compounds are starting to extract...
Hope this makes sense.
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IF you dose your portafilter (7 grams) on your espresso machine, what happens when you use a double filter (14 grams) or if you are twisted, like me a triple (21 gram) basket? Same volume of water, more coffee, stronger taste, probably not bitter, just stronger.
Wonder what would happen if we did the equivalent with espresso?
A 17g double adding 60% would be a 27g shot.
I misspoke on overextraction/overdosage but the thing struck me was how drinkable that 60g cup was. I don't guess we can pull a 27g shot but that is the thing I was getting at.
If we could add 60% dosage to pourover, FP, AP, espresso..Ibrik, etc I'm not sure what other preps would wind up tasting like. Very harsh is my guess.
Anyway, the 60g was an accidental experiment. I don't plan on drinking much more of it I'm just saying that it tastes a lot better than I expected it would. It does make me wonder about taking the dosage down to a minimal acceptable level and trying to learn what size window it makes good cups in.
60g ;D
John F
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I think you should have a 60g right before your 14'er
;D
-Stubbie
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Thanks Dave, this vacuum pot is my newest most favorite toy ;D I brewed my third pot this morning and with each pot, I'm tasting flavors in the coffee that I've never picked up on. The blueberries that came out of Joe's recent Harrar distro just blew me away. I've also tried a very buttery Carmen Estate decaf Panama and this morning a Fazenda Jacaranda in which I could taste hints of anise, but maybe it was just me. I can't wait to try the Korate Sidamo. To free up some valuable stove top real estate, my Moka pot has moved into the cabinet with my AP and french press.
At first, I was grinding a little too fine and the cloth filter clogged. I've since adjusted the grind to be almost as coarse as a drip and it seems to work much better. I plan to hit up an antique store on the way home in hopes of finding a cory rod.
Thanks again!
Ed
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So when I am going to get to see some real world pics of the butane table top model in action? ;D
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I think you should have a 60g right before your 14'er
I would and drink one with another GCBC'er if they all were not too scared to climb with me like tiny baby girls. :P :P
John F
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I think you should have a 60g right before your 14'er
I would and drink one with another GCBC'er if they all were not too scared to climb with me like tiny baby girls. :P :P
John F
Sorry, Texas is just out of my financial ring of accessibility
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Sorry, Texas is just out of my financial ring of accessibility
The 14er is in Colorado....I wish it was in Texas because the weeks vaca to Colorado isn't really in my financial ring of accessibility either but the wife demands some fresh mountain air and a get away is long overdue.
John F
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Good article from Mark Prince on:
^ FAQs on the vacuum brews (written some time ago as CoffeeKid)
http://www.coffeekid.com/coffee/vacpots/vacpotfaq
^ Nickel's history of the vac pot, in which he predicts a resurgence of the syphon method (good section on his theory of the decline in the process, even though it is a superior cup)
http://www.coffeekid.com/coffee/vacpots/vacpotheyday
I am hooked.
B|Java
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What's working for me?
45 grams of brown
Grind just a tad finer than pourover
22 oz of Wisconsin spring water
7 out of 10 on an electric stove
Cloth filter and Cory rod both bringing home the bacon
Coffee goes in co-incidental to the visible steam (about 10 seconds before the whoosh coming North)
Turn burner down to 3.5 out of 10 for a 2 minute steep on the heat, pull off the burner 35-40 draw down
Cloth filter rinsing under very hot water, with a grouphead brush - toss in a cup of water in the fridge
Marvey
B|Java
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Regarding the rinsing of the cloth filter....
I have a couple of those natural muslin cone filters and the instructions for cleaning them after a brew are to first rinse thoroughly with COLD water, then a quick rinse of hot water. The instructions did not offer any scientific reasoning for that method but I figured they know what they are talking about. I thought I would pass that info along as it seems it might apply to these cloth filters as well, (I am stuck on using a Cory rod for the moment)
Also, if I let them dry in the kitchen I can taste the "kitchen" in the next cup, so, once cleaned, they go into a Ball canning jar kept submerged in water until the next brew, whenever that may be as I tend to shift around my brewing methods.
Rich
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This is the first thread on vac pots I've read that recommends adding coffee after the hot water moves north. What's the advantage? Have you tried it both ways (coffee before water vs coffee after water) and noticed any flavor difference? Is the primary advantage of this "grounds after" approach that it gives better control over extraction time? Or better control of temperature?
Not to yank thread off the Yama track, but in my electric santos the water starts to arrive north with v poor extraction temp (150F) and only gets up to 190 after a minute of gurgling. By that time if you know the esantos you know it is ready to shut down and head south. My stovetop santos though operates similar to the Yama - extraction temps are good as soon as it goes north. Which brings me back to original question...what is the advantage of the "grounds after" approach if the water is the right extraction temp as soon as it goes north?
I gotta try this out...
FB
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This is the first thread on vac pots I've read that recommends adding coffee after the hot water moves north. What's the advantage?
I have tried it both ways. If you add it before the mass moves north, the temp is lower (as you have noted) and the extraction has a bitterness to it. As well, (I believe I read this) it will extract more caffeine.
I add the coffee when the steam vapor shows in the north end; ~10 seconds later comes a whoosh. This approach offers me the best taste from the variety of "when to add..." approaches I have taken.
Which brings me back to original question...what is the advantage of the "grounds after" approach if the water is the right extraction temp as soon as it goes north?
I used a thermometer and the temp was down around 150 or so as it began to move north and moved up and over 180+ with the whoosh. I do think the max temp I achieved was ~185 but that is with a lot of therm rod exposed to air (as well, the coffee will lower the water temp). Not sure how exact it is under these circumstances. My finished pot (off the burner) reads 182.
Next pot I will wait until the whoosh, measure the temp, and then add the coffee.
Here's the Prince's take on it:
Reapply the heating source, and watch the water start to slowly climb up the siphon. Why do we put the top vessel on only after the bottom water has heated up about 75% of the way? Because this brews a better coffee than if you ground the coffee and assembled everything before first applying heat. If you do it from a cold start, some water will start snaking its way up to the ground coffee by the time the bottom vessel's water temperature is around 75-80C - this leads to poor initial extraction, something that can degrade the final brewed cup of coffee. You want the initial water that hits the ground coffee to be very hot - 90C or higher. This helps prevent the extraction of excessive sour tastes, and also aids in keeping the caffeine extraction down by 5-10%. (Caffeine = bitters in the cup).
As the water climbs up the siphon, start adjusting your heat source lower - you want it so that, when all the brewing water is "up north", you have just enough flame to maintain a tepid boil in the bottom - nothing raging or turbulent. This helps again with maintaining a great brewing temperature. If you're brewing on the stove, do the same thing - if you had your stove set at 7 or 8, turn it down to 3 or 4 on the burning element, or even lower - whatever's need to just barely maintain the boil and production of water vapour.
http://coffeegeek.com/guides/siphoncoffee
B|Java
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I have tried it both ways. If you add it before the mass moves north, the temp is lower (as you have noted) and the extraction has a bitterness to it. As well, (I believe I read this) it will extract more caffeine (which also contributes to an imbalanced taste).
B|Java
That's been my experience with the vac pot. Putting the grounds in before the water has made it to the top can result in some very bitter, nasty tasting brew. If you wait until all the water has moved north and the the bubbling from the bottom pot has calmed down a bit, the water in the top should be at about 195-200 *F, just perfect for extraction, and then add the grounds you end up with a much better cup.
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After she sipped my Malay Mambo (Sum/Braz) blend yesterday, brewed in a Yama, the Czarina looked over and in all seriousness said, "you need to keep that pot. This is the best."
B|Java, reporting live in Lake Cheddar
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Sitting here sipping my first coffee from my new Yama 5 cup tabletop (Thanks for this distribution BJava). I've been using a 5 cup stovetop Yama for a while and loved the brew. I wanted this one for visual effect at the table, although I need to work on a volume problem (5 cup brews just enough for me, if 2 guests want coffee we're in trouble). Anthow, the brew is really, really fine. I'm not a real good note taker but here's basically what I did:
1. Preheated 22 oz. of filtered cold water on the stove (used the pot from the Yama stovetop)
2. Transferred the water to the tabletop and turned on the burner
3. After 1 minute, water started to smoke,
4. Put on the top carafe and added 2 1/2 oz. of Yirgacheffe (FC roast) and stirred
5. Took about 1 more minute for all the water to rise to the top carafe
6. Reduced the heat a bit
7. Let it brew for 3 minutes, stirring once in the middle
8. Turned off the burner
9. Coffe was all in the bottom carafe in 2 more minutes (could have been 1:45)
I am loving this coffee. I'm not a cupper so it's hard for me to describe what I'm tasting. I can say that the cup tastes crisp and I think of pepper and chocolate as it goes ove the tongue.
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Picking up on the sidebar from the Latte Art thread....
For me (you gotta exclude the new toy phase of course) I also see the Yama as a once a week thing because of the clean up. I know people use it everyday but personally I could not do it. Plus I make my first 20oz of coffee in a zombified state of awareness and I would break vac pots all the time if I had to dal with them in that condition. :-\
The brilliance of this thing for me is going to be when the right coffee comes along. I see how it's going to make something just sing. When the right coffee hits I'm sure it's going to be like magic highlighting all the right things with that clean depth...it's going to be a fantastic prep. It's really good anyway and I've had it accentuate things the way you would expect it to like a coffee magnifying glass of sorts. ;) ...but when the right beans comes along it's going to be fun!
As for me brining it over you know it's there any time you want to run something through it. BTW didn't I hear that you picked up some Gethumwini.... :angel:
John F
John (and others)--I HIGHLY recommend the vac pot for Kenya coffees. I did a three-fer just before my Kevote distro of some SM Kenyas. Those beans SANG in the vac pot, and my prep still wasn't as solid as it is now (combination of info from this distribution and the Cory rod). I'm also partial to Sumatras in the vac as well. The Tangse Rhino sang like the Kenyas. I figure another Kenya deep dive is on the agenda when Larry's two offerings get here. Then again, I'm due for the BIG sumatra round--I have at least seven or eight good beans just crying out for a Sumatra fest.
(I might have too much coffee)
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I was thinking about why the vac pots do so well, and came up with the fact that the water temp is kept high for the majority of the extraction, as opposed to my trusty press pot where the water is the right temp when the extraction begins, but drops as the steep time draws out.
Thoughts?
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Thoughts?
You should be able to fashion a plug in pre heated ceramic pour over cone, hold water for X seconds, and drain to make a similar cup if it's only temp.
That slight vacuum must have something to do with it. :icon_scratch:
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You should be able to fashion a plug in pre heated ceramic pour over cone, hold water for X seconds, and drain to make a similar cup if it's only temp.
:icon_scratch:
Careful, you're awful close to divulging the secret behind the BWAHAHA brewer!
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Careful, you're awful close to divulging the secret behind the BWAHAHA brewer!
That was BW's patented prolonging pourover pouring pearl procedure you are thinking of. ;D
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I was thinking about why the vac pots do so well, and came up with the fact that the water temp is kept high for the majority of the extraction, as opposed to my rusty <?>press pot where the water is the right temp when the extraction begins, but drops as the steep time draws out.
Thoughts?
Very good observation. Using the Cory rod, the temp remains right on 182 from the time I add coffee to the draw down (2 minutes). I will measure it when I use the cloth filter to see if there is any difference.
B|Java
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Dave and other Vac Pot lovers,
My first chance to give her a whirl was a run with only water last night. It worked perfect but I saw that I had the temp to high to begin with and the water shot up to the top. This morning on my first run with Costa I had the temp perfect and the rise was steady and slower. The grinds may have been a bit to fine because the draw down south stalled at the end but the cup was good but a bit weak. I used the measure that came with the pot to measure the beans. I didn't weigh them. The second pot I ground a bit larger and the draw down was better but still didn't get a WHOOSH at the end like I did last night without grinds added. I added the coffee on the trip north at a point it was half full and I stirred periodically. The second cup was also great but still a bit weak. I'm going to try number three now and add more coffee. I've got it to right at 4.00 min extraction time.
This is going to be fun and I can see that once I get it down the cup will even be better. Great flavors....
Thanks again Dave for all your help. Jim ;D
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Update on the third pot this morning, (Yes the misses is helping me cup!)
I'm off this morning so the vac pot is getting a work out! The third pot is Kona and I added a 1/2 a second scoop. I'll actually weigh later this morning but I'm too anxious to run to the shop and put it on the scales. The added volume of grounds helped a lot. The only issue now is I'm not getting the WHOOSH at the end. It stalls at the very last? I pull the top section off and the last little bit drains at that point. Any ideas, or is this normal? Jim ;D
Still haven fun!
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John (and others)--I HIGHLY recommend the vac pot for Kenya coffees.
yes. yes. yes. yes.
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Update on the third pot this morning, (Yes the misses is helping me cup!)
I'm off this morning so the vac pot is getting a work out! The third pot is Kona and I added a 1/2 a second scoop. I'll actually weigh later this morning but I'm too anxious to run to the shop and put it on the scales. The added volume of grounds helped a lot. The only issue now is I'm not getting the WHOOSH at the end. It stalls at the very last? I pull the top section off and the last little bit drains at that point. Any ideas, or is this normal? Jim ;D
Still haven fun!
Jim, of all the pots I have prepared, only one 'non-whoosh-down' after pulling off the stovetop. I don't remember doing anything different (grind, temp, coffee, mechanics) on that one instance where the final downdraft didn't include the final whoosh-down as the concluding event.
Tis a puzzle...
B|Java
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Dave,
Thanks for the feedback! The last pot this morning was awesome! I did add aditional coffee and the cup was fantastic! The water all went to the bottom and the grouns were dry, but I didn't get the whoosh I got without the coffee. My guess is I was just expecting the same effect that I got with no grounds and obviously the grounds slow down that dramatic ending. I don't get the final sound, but if the cup is always this good, I don't care.
Thanks again Dave!
Jim ;D
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Jim, two quick ideas, from my own experience.
1) Are you making sure that he hook at the base of the filter is pulled down and over the lip of the globe's base? I failed to do that on one occasion and just had it resting in there.
2) Try weighing it...40-45 grams, grinding finer than a pourover. Peter has me sold on the need to accurately measure. (Don't tell him I acknowledged that).
You should be getting two whoooooshes. One is the final thrust North and the other is the final amount of coffee coming South.
B|Java
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B/Java,
I'll try and measure tomorrow morning. Yesterday I didn't and I'm back to work today and used the old drip while in the shower this morning. When I used a grind at drip consistency yesterday it stalled all together at the end. When I went to a courser grind somewhere between a drip and a French Press grind it came south much better. The cup when I first started was a bit weak. I added coffee on the next two batches and WOW a great cup!!!!! I must admit this Vac Pot makes the best cup I've ever had! So, yes I will measure in the morning and go to 45 gram as you recommend. I'm hoping for a WHOOSH in my morning brew, so we'll see. As stated before, the last two batches slowed but didn't completley stall and the grinds were dry, just not that WHOOSH that shows a complete release of the vacuum. The other thing I thought about was that in my rush yesterday to "try er out", I did not measure the water. I went to the 5 cup mark and assumed that was correct. I might have too much water in to begin with? That might be creating a counter force that won't let the final WOOSH take place???? Having fun figuring this all out, but boy even with my slow learning curve the cup is GREAT!!!! I'll definatley be looking for the 8 cup with the next distro. The 5 cup doesn't make enough to even get me to work. I'm a coffee addict!
Thanks B'J for the help and the friendship! Jim ;D
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I'll be looking for a Cory glass filter on e-Bay and such. Any idea what they are selling for these days?
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I paid about $8 shipped for mine, a long time ago. There may be a bit of a bidding war going on ATM with all the GCBC members trying to get one ;D
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I just brought one when everyone else was asleep om Ebay for $2.50 but paid $6.00 to have it shipped!!!!!! Jim ;D
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I'll be looking for a Cory glass filter on e-Bay and such. Any idea what they are selling for these days?
From my limited observation they average $4.00 ish a piece plus shipping (usually another $4)
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Last Cory rod I picked up was $9.28 shipped
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Score.
Chad tipped me off to a local Cory on Craig's list, sitting there waiting for my TLC. Love the pukey pea-green, avocado color. $25, with original box. Does life get any better?
Peter, get ready to watch this bad boy in action for our post cupping event tomorrow.
Happy B|Java, and 'danke' Chad
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I have an extra Cory glass rod that I'd like to offer to a random GCBC vac pot user. If interested in a chance shoot me a PM and I'll pick a name "out of the hat" a week from today, let's say the 4th @ noon is the deadline. Shipping included.
Could be the start of a "tradition" ala Sweet Maria's List Tradition.
Rich
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I have an extra Cory glass rod that I'd like to offer to a random GCBC vac pot user. If interested in a chance shoot me a PM and I'll pick a name "out of the hat" a week from today, let's say the 4th @ noon is the deadline. Shipping included.
Could be the start of a "tradition" ala Sweet Maria's List Tradition.
Rich
Rich, superb idea. Thanks. I love the 'pay it ahead' this club promotes.
B|Java
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Love the pukey pea-green, avocado color.
Wow! That is like s-o-o-o 1973!! Too cool - never seen one like that!
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I had ordered an 8 cup Yama from SM right before the offer from Dave. I recieved it right before I got the beautiful tabletop Yama from Dave's distro. Last weekend I found the mother load of vac pots! I won't say where, but if you are looking for them try an antique store in an Amish community! I got two of the Sunbeam C30 stainless steel electric vacpots one for $5 and one for $15. The $5 one had a cory glass rod in it and the $15 unit a filter holder that works with the Yama filters. The $5 one had the top stuck and it's impossible to get it apart without destroying the seal. The other one works but the inside of the bottom unit has the nickle plating worn through to the copper. I can probably combine the two to make one usable unit.They also had extra Cory rods for $5 each. One of the vacpots I passed up had a glass bottom unit and a stainless top. I though it was a missmatch until I searched the internet and found that pyrex made the pot that way.
I used one of the Cory glass rods in the 8 cup Yama. The first time it worked great. The second time it stalled and I couldn't get the coffee to go down. I must have used the wrong grind the second time. I prefer the cloth filter!
I've used the 5 cup Yama tabletop a couple of times but use the 8 cup Yama daily. I really enjoy coffee from the vac pots.
waltfb
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Last weekend I found the mother load of vac pots! I won't say where, but if you are looking for them try an antique store in an Amish community!
waltfb
I bet I know where ;D and that would have been my first place to follow up on your tip.... not too far from my mothers house...
~~Sigh~~
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Score.
Chad tipped me off to a local Cory on Craig's list, sitting there waiting for my TLC. Love the pukey pea-green, avocado color. $25, with original box. Does life get any better?
Peter, get ready to watch this bad boy in action for our post cupping event tomorrow.
Happy B|Java, and 'danke' Chad
congrats on the score.
Sounds like some one is becoming a bit of a vac pot collector.
Not counting but would this be another coffee toy over some one? :-X
Enjoy
Michael
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congrats on the score.
Sounds like some one is becoming a bit of a vac pot collector.
Not counting but would this be another coffee toy over some one? :-X
Enjoy
Michael
Peter just bought a boat load of whirlygigs from ZnD. I don't know how to count them. Maybe one toy per case?
If so, I think I am one up and plan on staying that way.
Avocado Green Cory Man, B|Java
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I gladly concede on the toy-count, choosing instead to devote my funds to building an uber-stash.
B|Java is written into my will as the sole inheritor of said stash, dontcha know?
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Avocado Green Cory Man, B|Java
Should there be points added or deleted for avocado??? :icon_scratch:
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Avocado Green Cory Man, B|Java
Should there be points added or deleted for avocado??? :icon_scratch:
Added, man, added. See B|Whiskers comment. It is so bad, it is good. Get it?
B|Java
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I second that,....added
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Score.
Chad tipped me off to a local Cory on Craig's list, sitting there waiting for my TLC. Love the pukey pea-green, avocado color. $25, with original box. Does life get any better?
Peter, get ready to watch this bad boy in action for our post cupping event tomorrow.
Happy B|Java, and 'danke' Chad
I picked up the Cory this afternoon. It is a Cory DVA model, 4-8 cup, with an Avocado Hard Plastic Globe.
Guess what? It has never been used ... the rubber gasket still has that new, white hue/dust to it. There isn't a water spot on this.
Age? I would guess late 60s, early 70s. Why? Instructions (that and the original box is included) has a zip code. Those hit the fore in '63, starting with mandatory use in '67.
Any rough estimates of what this unused Cory might be worth?
B|Cory
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half pound of Kenya? let me know if I should bring it along. but I want to see the Cory work first, bucko.
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Learning: Stove temp radically affects water in globe.
Peter and Jerry stayed over after the cupping and had a Guat San Jose Ocan~a with me from the Yama. I cranked the temp up to med-high rather than med to hustle it along. My typical globe reading is 182 and its that temp at which it steeps. The temp last evening appeared to be steamier so I measured it this morning. Bingo, 200 degrees. I had assumed that the water would move North at one, universal temp.
For comparison,
Stove setting of 6.5/10 - 182 (full globe after Northern whoosh)
stove setting of 7.7/10 - 200 (full globe after Northern whoosh)
Another variable to learn, tweek, and apply.
B|Java
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One other thing to consider--
As I had nearly run out of my wife's decaf, I did not have enough for a full pot in the 8-cup stovetop. Being a good engineer, I measured the water volume to make sure I filled it to the correct point to match the weighed-out coffee.
On my Yama 8-cup stovetop, the 8-cup line is more like 35-36oz. than 32 oz. Makes sense why I am getting better results with loads of ~62g (if you believe the 7g per 4 oz. water).
I'll be measuring the 5-cup tabletop before I use it next. I'm almost ashamed that I didn't do this sooner. That said, my coffee intuition was working, because I could tell that 56g was not cutting it in the 8-cup.
EDIT: On water temps--B|Yama, are you pre-heating the water before it goes in the pot, or are you heating it entirely in the Yama? Gas or electric stove?
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...
EDIT: On water temps--B|Yama, are you pre-heating the water before it goes in the pot, or are you heating it entirely in the Yama? Gas or electric stove?
Electric, drawn from the spring water dispenser. Not preheated.
B|Java
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Electric, drawn from the spring water dispenser. Not preheated.
I'm a preheater.
I haven't measured but just knowing what different temp water looks like the water I'm putting on the bottom before the top glass even goes on has to be approx 180. Once the top glass and coffee go on it only takes a few seconds for the show to start.
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BoldJava,
I am REALLY jealous of your green Cory. I'm gonna have to keep my eye on Ebay for one of those. If you ever get tired of looking at it, I'll give it a good home ;D ;)
BTW,
I'm also a preheater. When my kettle starts whistling I remove it from the burner and cut the heat down to medium ( about 5-6 on the dial) I fill the bottom of my vac pot and set it on the burner and then put on the funnel. The water starts moving to the top within seconds of fitting the 2 halves together.
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...
EDIT: On water temps--B|Yama, are you pre-heating the water before it goes in the pot, or are you heating it entirely in the Yama? Gas or electric stove?
Electric, drawn from the spring water dispenser. Not preheated.
I used to preheat, but I found that it didn't save any time.
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Brian Harris (website below) suggests the Avocado Alice, unused, would fetch $50. He suggests that they are rare and he has not been able to snag one for his collection. Chad is my latest hero for the tip.
Give Brian' site a view for the history on syphon pots. Interesting info.
http://baharris.org/coffee/VacuumCoffeePots.htm
B|Java
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Brian Harris (website below) suggests the Avocado Alice, unused, would fetch $50. He suggests that they are rare and he has not been able to snag one for his collection. Chad is my latest hero for the tip.
Give Brian' site a view for the history on syphon pots. Interesting info.
[url]http://baharris.org/coffee/VacuumCoffeePots.htm/Brewing.htm[/url]
B|Java
I'd use it. I'm not much for collecting. Here's my short rationale
Avocado Alice, unused: $50
Avocado Alice, used at next B|Avocado coffee fest: Priceless
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Brian Harris (website below) suggests the Avocado Alice, unused, would fetch $50. He suggests that they are rare and he has not been able to snag one for his collection. Chad is my latest hero for the tip.
Give Brian' site a view for the history on syphon pots. Interesting info.
[url]http://baharris.org/coffee/VacuumCoffeePots.htm/Brewing.htm[/url]
B|Java
I'd use it. I'm not much for collecting. Here's my short rationale
Avocado Alice, unused: $50
Avocado Alice, used at next B|Avocado coffee fest: Priceless
Agreed.
B|Avocado
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After playing with the Yama for these last weeks, I have learned that depending upon what stage I insert the upper globe (and heat settings), my steep temp can vary from 182 to 198. I have settled on:
^ Setting electric heat at medium high (7.0/10). Double check base for moisture, wipe dry. Put pot on heat with heat diffuser, no upper globe.
^ Waiting until the water is just nearing a boil (watch for steaming prior to bubbles) for globe
^ Putting on the globe at that point, using a Cory rod as filtering element
^ Letting all the water move north (temp is 195), including the 'up whoosh'
^ Adding coffee (ground to a shade finer than pourover). Reduce heat to 3.5/10.
^ Using a rice paddle to ensure all coffee is saturated -- not stirring per se, but more dunking
^ Steep for 2 minutes
^ Pull from heat
^ Pot moves south, to include the 'down whoosh' which concludes at 50-60 sec off burner
Marvelous cup. Have enjoyed it for all coffees except the Papua New Guinea Kimel. The Yama accentuates specific flavor and the marmelade in the Kimel became overbearing. Will do that one in my gold filter pourover.
B|VeryHappy
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Cory rods. Length.
I have both the 5.75" (Cory rod) and the 6.5" (New Cory rod). You will see posters on CG insist that the 6.5" works better. I haven't had problem 1 with either rod. Neither has stalled and find that they work identically well with my process.
B|Java
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Cory rods. Length.
I have both the 5.75" (Cory rod) and the 6.5" (New Cory rod). You will see posters on CG insist that the 6.5" works better. I haven't had problem 1 with either rod. Neither has stalled and find that they work identically well with my process.
B|Java
Dave,
I don't believe that either rod 'works' better than the other, all things considered. However, the larger glass rods have a little more mass to them, and that makes a bit of difference. If you allow the heat to get too high, the normal size glass rod will bounce, and a heavier glass rod will stay in place due to the extra weight & will be a lil' bit more forgiving, IMHO. :P
Same deal with the filter issues. If you have an outstanding grinder, glass rods are the way to go.
If your grinder produces a lot of fines, they will clog either type filter, and I believe the cloth filters are a lil' bit more forgiving, again, IMHO.
Which reminds me, It's almost time to replace my Rocky's burrs...and replace the gaskets in Miss Livia :)
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Dave,
I don't believe that either rod 'works' better than the other, all things considered. However, the larger glass rods have a little more mass to them, and that makes a bit of difference. If you allow the heat to get too high, the normal size glass rod will bounce, and a heavier glass rod will stay in place due to the extra weight & will be a lil' bit more forgiving, IMHO. :P
Same deal with the filter issues. If you have an outstanding grinder, glass rods are the way to go.
If your grinder produces a lot of fines, they will clog either type filter, and I believe the cloth filters are a lil' bit more forgiving, again, IMHO. . .
Thanks, your experience is helpful. It must be in the design rather than the weight. The shorter rod weighs 67 grams; the longer "New Cory" weighs 65.
B|Java
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Same experience with the cory rods (no stalls). Part of that is improved technique--pulling back on the heat as the final water heads north. Also, I started adding the coffee after all the water's up north, (mainly for taste--I think the temperature is more even then) which keeps the grounds away from the filter on the upward "whoosh".
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OK, this rod came along with a bunch I bought. Who made this one?
B|Java
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OK, this rod came along with a bunch I bought. Who made this one?
B|Java
I don't know but I wonder if it was made for a Kent vac pot as an after market replacement for the Kent porcelain filter??
It appears to have more width and definitely shorter than the standard Cory.
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I don't know but I wonder if it was made for a Kent vac pot as an after market replacement for the Kent porcelain filter??
It appears to have more width and definitely shorter than the standard Cory.
3.75" long. One segment is 2" to center, the other segment is 1.75." This is too virile for a Kent <grins>.
B|Java
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Who will be the 1st to try this in their Yama? From CG:
I use a siphon coffee maker at home. Adding the asian twist, I add on 4 or more slices of ginger into the vessel, and when the brew's ready, you have a tinge of cooling ginger in the coffee. Best drink without sugar...
Gary?
B|Java
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Who will be the 1st to try this in their Yama? From CG:
I use a siphon coffee maker at home. Adding the asian twist, I add on 4 or more slices of ginger into the vessel, and when the brew's ready, you have a tinge of cooling ginger in the coffee. Best drink without sugar...
The first ime I ever really liked non-espresso coffee was in college. I just finished shoveling an unusually heavy (for Wisconsin) snow, and when I went back in, my room-mate brewed a percolator coffee with a stick of cinnamon in the basket. To a very poor college student, that was truly yummy. If I were to have such today, though,...
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OK, this rod came along with a bunch I bought. Who made this one?
B|Java
Got a note from Brian of the vac pot website. He doesn't recognize it and suggests it may not be a rod for coffee at all. Tea steeping and then pull the plug?
B|Java, not B|Tea-r
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OK, this rod came along with a bunch I bought. Who made this one?
B|Java
Got a note from Brian of the vac pot website. He doesn't recognize it and suggests it may not be a rod for coffee at all. Tea steeping and then pull the plug?
B|Java, not B|Tea-r
Nope, I just saw a Cory pot on ebay with this kind of rod. I would post the link, but it's too long.
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Nope, I just saw a Cory pot on ebay with this kind of rod. I would post the link, but it's too long.
If you have a link that is to long to post, try using Tiny URL (http://tinyurl.com/).
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[
Nope, I just saw a Cory pot on ebay with this kind of rod. I would post the link, but it's too long.
If you have a link that is to long to post, try using Tiny URL ([url]http://tinyurl.com/[/url]).
Well, now I see how to use the URL button, so here (http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Cory-DRU-Vacuum-Coffee-Pot-Nice_W0QQitemZ310083354023QQihZ021QQcategoryZ11652QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) is the raw link, and here is the TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/6s69u2
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[
Nope, I just saw a Cory pot on ebay with this kind of rod. I would post the link, but it's too long.
If you have a link that is to long to post, try using Tiny URL ([url]http://tinyurl.com/[/url]).
Well, now I see how to use the URL button, so here ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Cory-DRU-Vacuum-Coffee-Pot-Nice_W0QQitemZ310083354023QQihZ021QQcategoryZ11652QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]) is the raw link, and here is the TinyURL: [url]http://tinyurl.com/6s69u2[/url]
No, that is not the filter I posted. That appears to be similar to a Silex with the metal base.
B|Java
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BoldJava is correct. It's the Silex Lox-In glass filter, my new favorite vac pot filter. It lets fewer fines through than my Cory rod does, it does not "bounce" like the Cory, and since it locks into the funnel like the cloth filter, you don't really have to be that careful when stirring the slurry. If you bump a Cory rod while stirring it can let a clump of grounds through.
Here's a close-up:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/SilexLoxin007.jpg)
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OK, this rod came along with a bunch I bought. Who made this one?
B|Java
I ran tap water thru the North globe with filter in, trying it both ways (one end is shorter than the other). Water does seep thru. My next step is to try it by boiling water on the stove, dropping the North globe and unknown filter on and see if water migrates north. Think I will do this once my shipment arrives in case we have an <throat clears> accident.
Boom!
B|Java
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...My next step is to try it by boiling water on the stove, dropping the North globe and unknown filter on and see if water migrates north. Think I will do this once my shipment arrives in case we have an <throat clears> accident.
Boom!
B|Java
No boom. Curiosity got the best of me. Worked beautifully, sipping a Sulawesi from it. Two minute steep, just a tad of bouncing that can be heated regulated better next time. A winner.
I am on a quest to figure out who made it and what year. I do not believe it is a Cory, a Corning, or a Silex.
B|Java
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Same experience with the cory rods (no stalls). Part of that is improved technique--pulling back on the heat as the final water heads north. Also, I started adding the coffee after all the water's up north, (mainly for taste--I think the temperature is more even then) which keeps the grounds away from the filter on the upward "whoosh".
This is identical to my experience. No stalls, no bounce. How?
^ Back off on the heat as the water heads north (this is earlier than I had been turning it down)
^ Add the coffee after all the water is north.
B|Java
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No boom. Curiosity got the best of me. Worked beautifully, sipping a Sulawesi from it. Two minute steep, just a tad of bouncing that can be heated regulated better next time. A winner.
I am on a quest to figure out who made it and what year. I do not believe it is a Cory, a Corning, or a Silex.
B|Java
It is a Polan, made in the late `40's by Polan Industries in Huntington, West Virginia. Had a note from Brian Harris and here is a copy from his archives. Mystery solved.
Not selling this one.
B|Java
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Here is a little history (http://baharris.org/coffee/Physics.htm) on the vacpot for those who want to know the physics behind them... and history
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Corning rods - are out there as well. 5 ", smaller, but function perfectly. You will see them listed as GE as well, but made by Corning. Used first one this morning. Weighs 50 gram while the Cory weighs 67 grams. Rounded top, rather than the 4-pointed crown on a Cory. Has 4 bubble protrusions on the middle of it to prevent it from rolling off the counter.
Patent is from 1933; unsure of the year of production.
B|Java
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This week, I roasted some Java Pancoer and some Yemen. I cupped it from the Yama and had high expectations. Was disappointed as it was virtually flat, lacking in body. I cupped it again this afternoon in a gold filter/chemex pourover and it was excellent.
Interesting how just a few coffees fade in the vacuum pot when most of them step up and shine.
B|Java
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Dave and others joining in the thread,
I know I have shared my story and you know I've roasted many years and enjoyed a quality cup for all those years but I wanted to add today that in all those 15 plus years the vac pot is the one thing that has made a giant leap in my love of coffee and all about it! B/J sold me my first vac pot a couple months ago and that brewing method has jolted me with the difference in the cup more than anything I have every experienced. I just roasted a batch of Santa Maria 48 hours ago and yesterday had a drip out of the technivorn and it was good, but this morning I vac potted a 5 cupper three times and NO COMPARISON! The vac RULES! The difference in the vac pot and all other methods I've ever tried is not comparable. Thanks Dave for the "Turn On!"
Now about your experience this morning, I've yet to have any variety be better in the drip over the Vac?????? I guess I'm just chatting to share my love for the vac and I'm looking to see if anyone has had your experience? Not me yet! ;D Jim
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Well, I finally scored a Silex vac pot with the Silex Lox-in glass filter. I first tried the Lox-in on my Hario 3-cup, and it stalled. The next time, I backed the grind from 1 to 2 on my Flying Eagle grinder, and it came down just fine. The cup was richer than with the cloth filter.
Yesterday, I tried the 8-cup Silex stove-top, and assured my wife that the glass pot would not shatter on the stove (I was gritting my teeth the whole way). As the water went up the tube, the top bowl popped out of the rubber gasket!!! I pushed it back on and finished the brew. When I took it off the stove and the coffee went back down, I tried to remove the top bowl, and, yes, the gasket stayed firmly in the lower pot. I had to wait a few minutes for the coffee to cool enough to get my hand in and pull the gasket out.
So, here is the question: How can I afix the gasket to the upper bowl? Food-safe super-glue? Nah... Will it just stick to the upper bowl the longer I use it, or stick less to the lower pot?
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Hola Yasbean,
I happen to have one of those combos in my collection and maybe I can help.
I don't understand your problem with taking the top globe off, but if you can post a video or pic of your routine that would clear things up.
There is a cool way to simply getting the top globe off without taking the gasket off. But it would help me to see how you are removing the top off.
Also the Silex Vac pot is ok on direct flame but you?re going to need a wire diffuser thing if you've got an electric stove.
It?s also ok & safe to do the cold towel method with the Silex pot to speed up the draw process from north to south. I haven?t had a problem with glass chattering doing this for a year now.
BTW- Since I know you are a Hario fan like myself you might like to know that the guy's from the Barismo blog are now selling some Hario stuff in the U.S.
Let me know if I can help. ;D
Michael.
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I guess I am not doing anything special. Just as with a Hario table-top, I wait for the water to come to a near boil, then plop the top bowl down. The problem is that the gasket seems to stay in the mouth of the pot more firmly than on the top bowl. I will post a video in a few days, if this does not clarify. How do you do things?
Why would I need a diffuser? It seems to work just fine, although I did it only once. I will have to work with the heat/timing, though. (I sure do miss my gas stove!) I think that, once we get settled in the new place and I unpack everything, I may just use my rack with alcohol jet/butane burner and do Silex on the table. I just don't really like working coffee magic on a stove.
I have not heard of Barimo. I will have to look for it. I replaced my Hario tops at Avenue18 in Vancouver. Great guys! Again, getting used to this temporary kitchen has extracted a high price!
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Hola Yasbean,
I found myself using my Pyrex Vac pot today I know that it's not the Silex but I figure I'll post some photos of how I get the top globe of from the bottom.
Hope this helps for now.
It's all in the thumb action.
(diffuser)....I wasn't clear on what kind of stove , (electric or gas) you were using so that's why I wrote about the burner wire grid just in case.
BTW Senor B. Java that's the new glass rod that I got from you. I haven't tried it on the Hario V pot yet put I'm sure it will work out fine.
Thank You. :)
Michael
This is a the link for barismo
http://barismo.com/
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There is a thread over at CG (http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/361254) that shows how to use part of the Hario cloth filter mechanism (minus the cloth filter) and a piece cut from Swiss Gold filter to make a vac pot filter. I wouldn't waste a perfectly good Swiss Gold filter but it's still a neat design.
The thread also linked to this video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9dYEbM8nMg[/youtube]
Another video with the coffee being brewed in a coffee shop, at the table (someone asked about this):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyLC-eJatGQ[/youtube]
One last video that would help the newbie vac pot user:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkOCKbEj-vQ&feature=related
[/youtube]
I can say one thing: those table top butane burners make the water head north quick, fast, and in a hurry. I know that I normally use an 8 pot brewer with more water, but it takes much longer for my water to make it into the top section when brewed on the stove. I may have to rig up my Snow Peak backpacking stove (http://www.backcountry.com/store/SNO0013/Snow-Peak-GigaPower-Stove-Auto-Ignition.html) and use it as a burner.
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This week, I roasted some Java Pancoer and some Yemen. I cupped it from the Yama and had high expectations. Was disappointed as it was virtually flat, lacking in body. I cupped it again this afternoon in a gold filter/chemex pourover and it was excellent.
Interesting how just a few coffees fade in the vacuum pot when most of them step up and shine.
B|Java
^ Been playing with the Java Pancoer in the Yama. Stepped up the amount of coffee by 10% and for whatever reason, this bean requires that heavier dosing (50g, 22 oz H20) to give the shine to the cup.
^ Kept an 8-cup from the 2nd distribution for the B|Java abode. The Czarina has been so impressed with the cup that she is taking cup 2 in a Zojirushi SS thermos daily. Needed to make 2 pots of the 5-cup; hoping the 8-cup will be sufficient for our morning ritual.
^ Used the Corning filter with the 8-cup this morning. (Pic credit, baharris.org) Works beautifully.
B|Java
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Hi all caffeine guzzlers!!
I want to thank BJava for the distribution of these vacuum pots. I ordered the 5c tabletop. I was somewhat indecisive whether to order one let alone to choose between the stovetop and the tabletop. Like most of you here, I have plenty of other coffee toys - espresso machines, grinders, and of course I wanted to try my hand at roasting with an I-Roast (original 1). I also have a Starbucks Utopia, unfortunately, the water doesn't go north anymore. After seeing some pictures of the tabletop I thought it would at least be an elegant way of making/serving coffee however I had to see one in action. So, when I had the opportunity I took wife and kids to LA to LA Mill. Based on the reaction of my kids - I ordered the tabletop with the Cory rod.
I didn't read through here to 'optimize' making the brew as I was too excited to get it started. I actually made tea first - BTW it makes a great clean cup of tea using loose leaf.
Anyways I started with 35g using Belle espresso - I think I let sit too long as it was somewhat bitter. I tsounds like I should up-dose and use 45g but watch my time.
I didn't see any close-up pictures of the tabletop and I wasn't sure how you serve from it. So for those wondering here are some pictures - next to the stove and next to my Elektra Micro Casa for scale and somewhat a closeup of how the pieces come apart for serving.
BTW, I had no problems with the shipment via Fedex - no breakage. I commend BJava as I think he also added some bubble wrap inside the original box along with peanuts as part of the double box job. Maybe the pictures (albeit of poor quality) will convince others to request more of these so BJava can continue their distribution.
Thanks again and I eagerly await to read more so I can optimize usage!
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BTW, I had no problems with the shipment via Fedex - no breakage. I commend BJava as I think he also added some bubble wrap inside the original box along with peanuts as part of the double box job. Maybe the pictures (albeit of poor quality) will convince others to request more of these so BJava can continue their distribution....
Thanks. I won't be offering the tabletop ceramic as there is too much breakage with the ceramics. I am dealing in the background with it. Doing this on a club price level, I have no margins for the money that is involved surrounding breakage, member disappointment, let alone calls, time, and energy. Might consider the table top, without the ceramic. If I tossed in the Bunsen burner (better heat control), it would mirror the price of the ceramic.
Thoughts?
http://www.northwestglass.com/tabletop-syphon3-pi-279.html?invis=0
B|Java
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Dave,
That's a thought! I understand your other issues for not wanting to distro the table top with the ceramic base. Actually now that I have an 8 cup stove top the 5 cup ceramic is in the bedroom! I love the table top, but the stove top gives me more volume of coffee and works better. As you know I struggled to "get it right" with the table top but boy the stovetop 8 cupper works great every time and I only use the cory rod. I believe it gives even better flavors. However after the big wind a few weeks back I was without electric for 5 days and the table top was a "LIFE SAVER!" It has a place.
Go for the 8 cup stove top coffee lovers! You'll never regret it! thanks Dave for the distro! Jim ;D BTW,
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Thanks. I won't be offering the tabletop ceramic as there is too much breakage with the ceramics. I am dealing in the background with it. Doing this on a club price level, I have no margins for the money that is involved surrounding breakage, member disappointment, let alone calls, time, and energy. Might consider the table top, without the ceramic. If I tossed in the Bunsen burner (better heat control), it would mirror the price of the ceramic.
B|Java
I didn't realize the breakage was with the ceramic. I thought it was with the glass.
I chose the tabletop ceramic because of it's uniqueness. Not from a functional point but aesthetic.
If the margins don't support I completely understand why you'd want to discontinue. One needs to balance time between making coffee and helping others ;D
I'm glad I got it now as I actually considered getting the tabletop during your 1st distro but couldn't decide or timing of funds wasn't right.
Thx again for the opportunity
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Any Kent fans out there? Didn't see any bids so I don't think I am blowing someone's secret:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330277380240
B|Java
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Any Kent fans out there? Didn't see any bids so I don't think I am blowing someone's secret:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330277380240[/url]
B|Java
Interesting find, Dave. I'm taking a crack at it! >:D
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I've seen a few of the red Kent vac pots go through Ebay. They look really cool but with many of them the red finish has rubbed off in spots. I am on the lookout for one of the green Cory's like BoldJava scored or one of the Cory's with the white milk glass.
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I bought this on ebay today, supposedly unused. No other description other than never been used.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a280/dtp279/Coffee/Corybrewer.jpg)
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I bought this on ebay today, supposedly unused. No other description other than never been used...
Not sure if that is a vacpot or one of Cory's percolators. How did they have it advertised?
Give us a shout out when it hits the Philippine Sea.
B|Java
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I bought this on ebay today, supposedly unused. No other description other than never been used...
Not sure if that is a vacpot or one of Cory's percolators. How did they have it advertised?
Give us a shout out when it hits the Philippine Sea.
B|Java
Sure looks the same Dave. So, it seems I got myself a Cory percolator for my coffee museum here in Manila! The ebay listing was generic - Cory coffee brewer. I'll send a review to the forum as soon as I get to try this old lady.
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After purchasing a Yama 8 cup from the group buy, I am sending out my Bodum Santos to it's new owner today. Before the Santos got boxed up I took a few pics so that I could give a comparison between the 2 vac pots and some of the difference in the way that they operate.
Here's a shot of the 2 vac pots side by side.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/Y%20vs%20B/YamavsBodum022.jpg)
You can see that the Yama's bottom pot is slightly larger than the Bodum's bottom pot. The Yama does make more coffee than the Bodum. I normally filled my Bodum well past the 8 cup mark and it would almost perfectly fill my Stanley thermos (http://www.stanley-pmi.com/shop/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=ABT6019-600). If I fill the Yama past the 8 cup mark it will fill my thermos to the top with about 125 to 175 ml (~4 to 6 oz) of extra brew, depending on how far I go past the 8 cup mark.
The Bodum's top funnel is also larger than the Yama's, excessively so IMHO. A full bottom pot in the Bodum will only fill the top funnel a little over half way. A full pot in the Yama fill it's top funnel almost to the top.
You can see in this picture that the stems on the funnel portion are also different. The Yama's stem is longer and thinner. You can also see that the gaskets between the top and bottom are vastly different between the two pots. The Yama's gasket kinda locks the top and bottom together. The Bodum funnel simply just rests on the pot and relies on the vacuum created to make the seal. I have actually broken the vacuum seal on the Bodum before, when removing it from the stove. The Yama's gasket setup creates a much more secure feel to the whole setup.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/Y%20vs%20B/YamavsBodum059.jpg)
One big difference between the 2 vac pots is the temperature that I set the stove at when brewing. With the Santos, my stove is was set at about 6.5 (out of 10). Once about 80% of the water had moved into the top funnel I would cut the heat back to about a 3.
The first time I used my Yama I used the same settings but the migration of water to the top was very slow. I turned the heat up to about 8 to speed up the process. After the water had moved to the top I cut the heat back to 3 and added my coffee. I turned around to grab my stirring paddle, and when I turned back to the stove, the water had already dumped back into the bottom pot. I have since learned that I have to keep the heat at about 4.5 to maintain the water in the top of the vac pot. I am assuming that these differences in the heat setting are because of the use of the wire spacer that I use with my Yama pot. The Santos sat directly on the burner.
The stock Bodum filter is a plastic disc with grooves on the bottom. The grooves are small enough to allow the coffee to be siphoned down while small enough to stop the grounds. This design works but it it dependent on the grind; if the grind is to fine you will get issues with stalling and/or sediment in the final brew. I have found that the stock Bodum filter is much more prone to stalling than the stock Yama cloth filter. It also seems more prone to stalling as compared to using a glass filter rod. Here are a couple of shots of the filters for each vac pot:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/Y%20vs%20B/YamavsBodum089.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/Y%20vs%20B/YamavsBodum092.jpg)
The Bodum Santos does come with a slew of accessories including this nifty cleaning brush:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/Y%20vs%20B/YamavsBodum083.jpg)
Also included with the Bodum is this table top spirit burner that uses alcohol. I only used this burner a couple of times and it is very slow. I had better luck using my penny stove (http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/penny.html).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/Y%20vs%20B/YamavsBodum104.jpg)
There stirring paddle that comes with the Yama, with it's wider paddle end and incorporated measuring spoon, is 100% better than what is included with the Bodum:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/Y%20vs%20B/YamavsBodum077.jpg)
I also prefer the Yama's top/funnel stand combo over what is included with the Bodum. The Bodum stand makes things feel top heavy and unstable.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/Y%20vs%20B/YamavsBodum075.jpg)
Both vacuum pots make a really tasty cup of coffee. I could find no real difference in the taste of the cup that each pot produced, but I do prefer the Yama over the Bodum. The Yama seems to me to be better designed overall. The glass in the Yama is thicker and seems like it would be much better for everyday use. I also like the gasket on the Yama much better. Although the Bodum comes with more bells and whistles out of the box, I didn't use any of them with any regularity.
The only major grip that I have against the Yama is having to use the wire grid on my electric stove.
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Great comparative post. Thanks for taking the time and energy with the photos and narrative comparison, B|Java
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A dandy vintage Silex without bids on eBay this a.m. Curious how we got away from anything that required time, hands-on, and a sense of flair such as this pictured vacpot and moved to today's ubiquitous Mr. Coffee, seen in the first 56 homes you visit. Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you, woowho, B|Java
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Got to revive the thread with a new group of Yama Klubbers joining the fold. Ships next week.
Tossed this review up over at CoffeeGeek. Trying to set a GCBC record for longest post as well as a have a post to which new buyers may be directed as a starting point.
Positive Product Points
After six months of daily use, I can say this: No other coffee preparation showcases the individual characteristics and properties of a coffee as well as does a vacpot. Of course, your mileage may vary.
Negative Product Points
Handle-collar can work loose (tighten screw ~ every 3 months, gently). Very putsy, time-consuming approach to coffee making for those in a rush on M-F schedules. Doesn't make partial pots very well. The 5-cup pot design (with a narrow neck) makes for difficult cleaning, but more on that later.
Detailed Commentary
This review will cover both the 5- and the 8-cup stovetop models. The 5-cup will give you 20-22 oz of finished coffee while the 8-cup model offers you 34-36 ounces of brew.
What's it come with? Inside the well packed box is a heat diffuser for those who use electric (gas stoves require no diffuser). Dig more deeply and you will find a plastic stand that holds the upper globe, as well as a plastic spoon/stirrer. Also included is the standard metal filter, covered with a cotton cloth and an extra cloth filter cover as well.
How to describe the set-up? There are two parts to the glass unit. First is the standard base pot. Then there is an upper globe with a descending glass tube that may well invite a granite counter to come knocking. Careful with it, mate. When assembled, the upper globe sits comfortably positioned in and on the lower base pot, resting on a substantial rubber gasket. So you are not alarmed, the tube does not reach the bottom of the pot and you are left during the steeping process with about 2 oz <?> of water in the base at all times. Don't worry about it; it is designed that way.
OK, let's get started. Remember, I said this was a putsy way to make coffee. If you are in a rush, put the unit away and come back Saturday. Keep in mind that opinions on the ideal 'prep' work for a vacpot vary. My approach is one of many. Don't get rigid or anal about this. This is coffee-making, not a physics problem to be solved. Experiment and find what works well with you and stick with it. This is a pot worth mastering.
1) Take the filter and drop it into the upper globe. Make sure that the chain that descends from the filter leads down the globe's tube, out the bottom. Pull on that spring-loaded hook at the end of the filter and secure it over the lip of the tube. Then, rest the upper dome in the plastic dome stand, well out of the way.
2) Fill your coffee pot with water to the fill line (again, I only prepare full pots as most owners struggle with partial pots). Wipe off the bottom of the pot to ensure that no moisture remains. Place the heat diffuser on the burner and turn the burner to about med-hi, about a 6.8 out of 10. You will need about 10 minutes of an initial water heat up, so now turn your attention to the beans.
3) Coffee grinding. I use a grind just a tad finer than drip grind. Quantity? I use 42g of coffee with the 5-cupper and 72g with the 8 cupper. Do not add the coffee to the upper globe at this time. Use the amounts above as a starting point and adjust to your tastes.
4) When the water begins to steam, adjust the burner down to about 5. As the first bubbles escape from the water in the pot, put the upper globe on top of the pot. Gently snug it down so the upper globe is sitting securely on top of the pot. It should be even and level. Turn the water down again to 3.5 (out of 10). Water will begin migrating north into the upper globe. Set your kitchen timer on the microwave for 3 minutes.
4a) When I began with vacpots, I used a thermometer to learn at what stove setting the water would rise, what it took to get to 196, what is took to hold it there, etc. You can practice with plain water. No need to work out a science project on good coffee. Experiment with plain water until you have a feel for it.
5) When virtually all the water migrates north (remember, an ounce or so always remains), now add the coffee, a tablespoon at a time. When the first coffee hits the water, start your 2:00 minute steep (3:00 time setting helps monitor the length of time of the down-draft) .
6) Once you have added all the coffee, use the provided stirring rod (or rice paddle - buy one) to push down the coffee from the center, toward the side and down the edge of the globe. Do this a second time, just before pulling the coffee off the burner. Avoid stirring the coffee; it leads to stalls; an event that occurs when water no longer migrates back south. I use a rice paddle (about 3.5 inches wide) as it moves more coffee down more quickly. You are trying to make sure that all the coffee is moist and available for the best extraction of acids, proteins, and oils. Again, don't stir but rather push the coffee down the side of the upper globe.
7) At the 2:00 minute mark (2:20 with the 8-cupper), turn off the burner and pull the unit off the burner. Let it cool on the stovetop, away from the heat source. Within about 15-20 seconds, the coffee will begin to migrate back south, as the vacuum draws the coffee down. There is a wonderful 'whoosh' when the last of the 30-45 second migration and vacuum concludes. Ah, get ready.
8] Use a pot holder to lift the upper globe out of the lower pot and place it gently into the plastic globe holder. Gently move it out of the way. Now, pour and enjoy.
Matters to arm-wrestle over
1) Scrubbing the cotton filter. If you use the provided cotton filter, an old toothbrush or a grouphead brush and very hot water clean it well. No soap. Make sure your filter is dry before putting away or keep it in a cup of water in the frdige (to avoid bacteria growth). Some suggest that the brushing wears down the filter too quickly. They are a buck each and last 3-5 months. Find them on eBay or anywhere on the net.
2) Boiling water before hand. Some are in a rush and will boil the water in a water kettle and then pour it into the lower pot (Thugmusk Rich suggests this is in the directions -- I have always had a problem with authority). This speeds up the entire process. To me, this step merely intrudes into a very tactile, Zen-like process that I have no desire to complicate. I have the rest of my life to make a pot of coffee and am seeking ways to slow down, not rush through it. A Yama plays well with my philosophy.
3) Do not, repeat, do not put coffee into the upper globe until all the water has migrated north. Why not? Water begins migrating at about 145 degrees. The lower temp water will begin extracting the coffee, far below ideal temps. You will end up with a poorly extracted cup.
Note: If you have a successful partial-pot routine, please respond via the 'write' at the bottom -- few have succeeded with less than a full pot. Thanks.
Tips
1) I prefer to use a Cory or a Corning glass filter, available on eBay. You can grab one for about $9-12 shipped. Watch out of chipped tops (aka bumped heads) and sharp edges. You can generally see those on the eBay enhanced photos. Ask questions of the seller if you have them. Many of these were made in the 40's and 50's and are literally worn down from years of use. They work fine. Here is an easy search to help you {http://xrl.us/CoryRodforYama (Link to shop.ebay.com) } Don't worry about which one you get; they all work well (Cory, New Cory, and Corning).
2) Don't be in a rush to get a perfect cup. Getting a good pot out of a Yama takes time to learn but once you've got it, it is like riding a bicycle.
3) If you have an inexpensive grinder, stick with the provided metal/cotton filter. The use of a Cory or Corning filter requires a uniform grind from a decent grinder that produces a uniform grind. If you are using a Cory filter, make doubly sure not to bump the Cory rod with the stick/paddle when pushing the grounds down. Do not stir; push the grounds down to saturate them. Stirring invites stalls.
4) If the 'down draft' takes longer than 45 seconds, grind just a tad larger. If it takes less than 30 seconds, you may experience too weak of a cup and might want to grind just a bit finer. Stick with it; you'll get it.
5) If you are not consuming the entire pot at one time, preheat water in a thermos and pour the remainder of the pot into the thermos until you are ready.
6) Store the upper globe out of the way. I have an imported woven basket on the coffee shelf, with the globes laying on their sides, along with the glass rod collection I have started (Corys, Cornings, Silex-Lox In, Polan Fire Glass, and more. Heavens, getting compulsive about these glass rods).
7) Clean-up:
* Let the grinds air-dry a bit. They come out more easily after a bit. I use the same rice spatula to work out the grinds from the pot that I used to immerse the coffee for extraction. You can find one in an Asia grocery store in your area or grab one like this: http://xrl.us/RicePaddle (Link to www.simply-natural.biz) .
* Next step on the 5-cup (with a thin throat) is to put the dish cloth entirely into the globe, immerse it into the dish water, and shake the globe (very securely in your hands), using the force and impact of the cloth to get the remaining oils. Rinse with very hot water a minimum of three times to ensure all soap traces are removed.
* Others have recommended the curved brush to clean the 5-cup, though I have no experience with it. I will have Sweetmaria's toss it in the next time I order some greens to roast. Here it is: (at the bottom of the page) http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.coffeecleaner.shtml.
Buying Experience
Easy, simple, straightforward. Vacpot was shipped quickly and well packed. BoldJava is such a dear <grins>.
B|Java
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There stirring paddle that comes with the Yama, with it's wider paddle end and incorporated measuring spoon, is 100% better than what is included with the Bodum:
([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/Y%20vs%20B/YamavsBodum077.jpg[/url])
That Bodum spoon is hysterical. ;D
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I haven't used the Yama spoon in half a year--grabbed a bamboo paddle, which I used to push/semi-stir the grounds and then to stop the stir so that the coffee is evenly distributed.
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r--grabbed a bamboo paddle, which I used to push/semi-stir the grounds and then to stop the stir so that the coffee is evenly distributed.
Sweet you bamboo-zle the coffee into spec. ;D
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I haven't used the Yama spoon in half a year--grabbed a bamboo paddle, which I used to push/semi-stir the grounds and then to stop the stir so that the coffee is evenly distributed.
Likewise, use a rice paddle. You can pick them up for $1.50 in any Asian store. They immerse a ton of coffee and don't wake Mr. Cory as he snoozes.
B|Java
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Good Morning, Bold, and thank you for taking the time to write those excellent directions. I actually read them from start to finish, and my Yama isn't even coming until .... it comes. I so can't wait. And I am so sure that I will know how to start.... Guess I should roast some of my new coffees today in anticipation....
Susan
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After six months of daily use, I can say this: No other coffee preparation showcases the individual characteristics and properties of a coffee as well as does a vacpot.
Simply tells me you never perfected the french press. <BIG wink goes here>
I prefer to use a Cory or a Corning glass filter, available on eBay. Many of these were made in the 40's (Peter's era)
Haarrummmpphh! You'll get yours B|Jokey-Jokeman!
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After six months of daily use, I can say this: No other coffee preparation showcases the individual characteristics and properties of a coffee as well as does a vacpot.
Simply tells me you never perfected the french press. <BIG wink goes here>
I prefer to use a Cory or a Corning glass filter, available on eBay. Many of these were made in the 40's (Peter's era)
Haarrummmpphh! You'll get yours B|Jokey-Jokeman!
After seeing the rust bucket you serve press coffee in, I decided that it was necessary to find another method of brewing a good cup.
RE: Your era -- I inserted that line to see if you read it, knowing the result that would come. Chomp, like a bass in the weeds. Gulp.
B|Java
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Happy that I can accommodate you, and glad that I did not disappoint. Remember to respect your elders.
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2) Boiling water before hand. Some are in a rush and will boil the water in a water kettle and then pour it into the lower pot. This speeds up the entire process. To me, this step merely intrudes into a very tactile, Zen-like process that I have no desire to complicate. I have the rest of my life to make a pot of coffee and am seeking ways to slow down, not rush through it. A Yama plays well with my philosophy.
A couple of In-My-Experience comments, or "my approach":
The instructions with the SY8 model call for the use of hot water. "Hot fresh water" to be specific, which to me doesn't mean hot tap water but fresh cold tap water that has been heated. So, using heated water won't mess with the Zenishness as it's part of the manufacturers documented procedure. :-) Me, I am not in a rush, just intolerant to delay so I preheat. I have a few syphon (vacuum) pots in my arsenal. Cona's, Hario's, old Yama's, a Kono, Cory's, Silexes, Bodum's etc and not once have I read in any of the instructions included with some of these to use hot water, except for this new Yama SY8.
Cleaning. I find a couple of ounces of plain ol' white vinegar can really get the lower globe clean with minimal effort. I find the top easier to clean after it has had a chance to air or dry out a bit so I leave that to do right before I make the next pot. The spent grounds come out easier when drier, with a swirl or two of the stirrer, the grounds can pratically pour out of the upper globe into the trash.
Bloom. If you like stronger then the standard water to coffee ratio, and you do happen to preheat the water beforehand, and you are making a full pot, and you are, assumingly, using fresh roasted coffee, I find stirring to be a must if the water starts to rise too fast, or the bloom will rise up and over the edges of the top globe for real nice mess. BTDT. I followed their instructions and they have you put all the coffee in the "infusion chamber" prior to mating the two together. So, I have a situation where hot water is rising into the full amount of coffee I intend to brew with, creating this huge bloom, if I don't stir as the water rises, I will have coffee bloom over the top. Two ways I can help prevent this, lessen the amount of heat so the trip north is not as fast, or, make sure not to preheat the water to the boiling point.
I never had a stall using a Cory or Cona glass filter rod. It has been said that a coarser grind produces more fines. It has been also said that fines cause stalls, as if using a sub-par grinder. I use a Mazzer and I grind fine. I use Tom of SMs guidelines with regards to grinding. Essentially, grind finer and finer until you stall your brewer, then back off a bit. However, if I go too fine, I don't stall the brewer but have a bitterness sensation in the cup, that's when I back off.
Cotton filter. I don't use them often. Rarely in fact. I have read where it is best to store your current one in water in the fridge, something about keeping the taste neutral, I can't say. I can say that in the past when I was using a re-usable hemp #4 cone filter that if it was hung to dry in the kitchen, the next pot of coffee had a taste of the smell of the kitchen. I started storing it in water in the fridge and that issue went away.
Brew time. The instructions call for 60 seconds. I find that to be about right for my tastes, however, I don't time, I go by sight, how the "foam" looks on top. An indicator I use is when I no longer see large bubbles in the foam it's time to remove it from the heat. I don't just heat the off but also move it to a cooled burner. I stir a bit after all the water has risen north, as to me it does not look like all the grounds are getting a thorough saturation on their own. During this stirring is when I view the bubbles in the foam.
Out of all the ways I have to prepare coffee, this is the one method I have used daily since I received it from Bold. The SY8 is a perfect size for two large mugs of joe for the wife and I.
Thanks for distro on this Mr. Java. One helluva coffee maker!
Rich
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The instructions with the SY8 model call for the use of hot water.
Thanks Rich, I didn't recall reading that. Any of my bosses over my 40-year working span will tell you I have problems with authority.
Cleaning. I find a couple of ounces of plain ol' white vinegar can really get the lower globe clean with minimal effort. I find the top easier to clean after it has had a chance to air or dry out a bit so I leave that to do right before I make the next pot.
Yes, it comes out much easier when air-dried and I will add that to the review. Vinegar? No residual taste, I assume. I use a coconut based dish soap that leaves minimal residue but really go after it with hot, hot rinses.
Bloom. If you like stronger then the standard water to coffee ratio, and you do happen to preheat the water beforehand, and you are making a full pot, and you are, assumingly, using fresh roasted coffee, I find stirring to be a must if the water starts to rise too fast, or the bloom will rise up and over the edges of the top globe for real nice mess. BTDT. I followed their instructions and they have you put all the coffee in the "infusion chamber" prior to mating the two together.
Interesting. Never had a spill over from bloom despite using 3-day rested fresh roast. Another reason to not trust authority, right? <grin>
Brew time. The instructions call for 60 seconds.
What's the bumper sticker? "Question Authority."
Out of all the ways I have to prepare coffee, this is the one method I have used daily since I received it from Bold...Thanks for distro on this Mr. Java. One helluva coffee maker!
Rich
You are quite welcome. I was going to let the whole distro thing go away but it is a good way to reach out to less active members and at the same time, keep Coffee Kids in front of all of us.
Remember our recently voted tagline for 2009 <joke>:
"Buy a Yama for your mother-in-law from B|Java in 2009 and show her peace is what it is all about."
B|Java
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Snagged this Dutch Vaculator filter for vacpots off eBay this afternoon. Last week, a new in the box one went for ~$47.00. Second pic, instruction sheet, is courtesy of BAHarris, who has the greatest collection of old vacpots on the web:
http://baharris.org/coffee/
B|Java
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Grabbed this off eBay last week and today's mail brought this unused, "new" Fast-Flo Cory porcelain filter to the mix. I think the cotton filter is goes over the foot area, rather than over the top. Now where is Gary?
This design was patented in 1934, limited run, so I actually have a coffee toy older than the press pot Peter purports to purposely pour profusely phrom (he won't bite twice in a row).
http://baharris.org/coffee/History.htm
B|Java
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Bold|Yama
You are becoming quite the collector of Yama/Cory|Art... very cool. I assume you actually try each one of these filters to see how they perform. It would be cool to taste the same coffee, the same day with only different filters....
Just thinking out loud...
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Grabbed this off eBay last week and today's mail brought this unused, "new" Fast-Flo Cory porcelain filter to the mix. I think the cotton filter is goes over the foot area, rather than over the top. Now where is Gary?
This design was patented in 1934, limited run, so I actually have a coffee toy older than the press pot Peter purports to purposely pour profusely phrom (he won't bite twice in a row).
[url]http://baharris.org/coffee/History.htm[/url]
B|Java
Watching the playoffs, of course :D
Dave, that's something that I've never seen before. :o
How does it lock-in to the upper globe?
Are there any more pieces?
Carolina is off to a fast start...
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Bold|Yama
You are becoming quite the collector of Yama/Cory|Art... very cool. I assume you actually try each one of these filters to see how they perform. It would be cool to taste the same coffee, the same day with only different filters....
Just thinking out loud...
I try all the filters I buy before shipping on to members here, making sure they work. The two most recent ones above have yet to have their feet wet and trust me, they won't be resold <WAGr>. They are captive.
I am very alert when first using a new design as they aren't made for the Yama and I don't want an implosion when I am not standing over them. It is fascinating to see all the variations that really exist out there on the Corys. I bet I have seen 20 different minor changes.
Comparison in the cup? I know my palate isn't that discerning, though Jeff's/Peter's might be. I think one might notice the greater difference between the cloth vs the glass. It will be interesting to see how the Dutch and the Fast-Flo work.
I am working at rehabbing some glass rods with auto-body workers' emery paper but I think it is a lost cause. Some of my early purchases were good lessons learned.
B|Java
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Comparison in the cup? I know my palate isn't that discerning, though Jeff's/Peter's might be.
B|Java
You fell for this old ruse, my friend;
Something tells me, if you make a cheat-sheet with a bunch of descriptive wording, and state your opinion with assured boldness everyone will assume you are an old hand. Cool
And something I learned from you;
Just drop a couple of "heavens" on them, and like Milo says use "nice" every few sentences...
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Dave, that's something that I've never seen before. :o
How does it lock-in to the upper globe?
Are there any more pieces...
Gary, it is a chunk of porcelain that rests in the upper globe. It weighs 202 grams (over 7 ounces) so gravity is its friend. It doesn't lock into anything but rests there.
All the pieces you see are it. I will check with Brian Harris -- thought I would start with you. Guy over on CG indicates that it would work in the Yama, just as it would in the Cory (pictured in the link). I believe the cloth is large enough that it will cover the feet whether I come from the top or from the bottom. Need to figure out which way makes sense.
B|Java
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I was reading the info at BHarris website, during the commercial break.
I could not figure out how to blow up the teeny tiny picture of it, either!
Gravity...makes sense, I'd try a trial run with just water, for a couple of tries.
Being an early design, it probably has a lot of limitations.
Did you get the original box with it?
Just Wondering..
Cards put up 14 points in less than 1 minute..
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Hola all,
Look's cool :o what a great catch senor Java,
I came across some very cool vac pot last weekend while in the Poconos PA.
This one here had a porcelain filter rod.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3413/3185888077_e81f370e7b_b.jpg
I didn't get the vac pot but I did managed to find a knee box hand grinder for $8.00. ;D
PS: Go Warner.......27-7 Arizona
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Hola all,
Look's cool :o what a great catch senor Java,
I came across some very cool vac pot last weekend while in the Poconos PA.
This one here had a porcelain filter rod.
[url]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3413/3185888077_e81f370e7b_b.jpg[/url]
I didn't get the vac pot but I did managed to find a knee box hand grinder for $8.00. ;D
PS: Go Warner.......27-7 Arizona
That is a kent filter (or copy of a kent) I have one of those and it do not fit the cory that I have, and the gasket between upper and lower globes makes the coffee taste nasty...
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Just ran the 5-cup Yama through her first test run.
I used some old beans just to see how she actually works, and ....gee the stuff still tastes good.
Imagine how it will taste when I put in some freshly roasted and rested.
But, here's my first question: the brewed coffee came down at just about 2 minutes, but before I took it off the heat. I am guessing that this means I had reduced the heat a bit too much? I'm working with a gas stove, and I had moved the whole pot to a smaller back burner when it was steeping; I'm guessing it would have stayed up in the top longer if the heat had stayed a bit higher? .... as in until I signalled it to come down by removing it from the heat?
Now I just have to find a method of keeping the rest of the potful hot enough until I'm ready to drink it.
Susan
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Susan,
You're right on! You reduced the heat too much at the end. Keep doing it and find the sweet temps... Getting ready temp, waters heading north so starting turning her down to medium, and once brewing keep it high enough to keep the brew north but not boiling... Have fun! It's the best! Jim ;D
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Thanks, Jim.
I took note of an earlier/elsewhere suggestion by BoldJava to experiment using just water, and found that leaving the temp steady through the whole process kept the water in the top. So....next time around I'm going to use coffee again....but not until I find a small tidy thermos. Coffee for (this) one person is still a challenge.
Susan
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Susan,
B/J is the best. He's got great knowledge and a wonderful individual! He can answer most all questions. I have a table top and an 8 cup stove top. The stove top gets used every day and sometimes several times a day. I have found it to be the best way to brew my greens. I like my espresso machine, but the vac pot is my consistent great cup day after day. Have fun, Jim ;D
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Thanks, Jim.
I took note of an earlier/elsewhere suggestion by BoldJava to experiment using just water, and found that leaving the temp steady through the whole process kept the water in the top. So....next time around I'm going to use coffee again....but not until I find a small tidy thermos. Coffee for (this) one person is still a challenge.
Susan
We like our Zojirushi thermos, when we need to keep it warm off the stove. I boil water and let it steep in the thermos before pouring coffee into it. Makes the difference.
Also like newegg.com for ease of order, quick shipping:
Used at the house:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896128033
The Czarina takes this one to the office:
http://www.amazon.com/Zojirushi-SVFAE50-16-Ounce-Vacuum-Bottle/dp/B0000CEUPX
Patience. If you get your system down-pat in one day, you are doing a ton better than I did. I think I putzed for a week before I figured out a good routine.
B|Java
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We like our Zojirushi thermos, when we need to keep it warm off the stove. I boil water and let it steep in the thermos before pouring coffee into it. Makes the difference.
Also like newegg.com for ease of order, quick shipping:
Used at the house:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896128033
The Czarina takes this one to the office:
http://www.amazon.com/Zojirushi-SVFAE50-16-Ounce-Vacuum-Bottle/dp/B0000CEUPX
Patience. If you get your system down-pat in one day, you are doing a ton better than I did. I think I putzed for a week before I figured out a good routine.
B|Java
[/quote]
EGGSackly what I need.
I had gotten stuck on SM's price of $28.00 plus shipping for a slightly different model, and so I spent waaaay too long cruising local stores (including the restaurant supply house). But....NewEgg, here I come...
Susan
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http://xrl.us/PristineDutchVacFilter (Link to cgi.ebay.com)
Since there are no bids in, I felt I could call this little gem to your attention. The Dutch Vaculator was an early filter and I believe Cory bought them out. Need to read up on it.
It is made from porcelain. I grabbed one a couple of weeks ago after Craig on CG pointed it out that it works in the Yamas. I haven't run it thru the Yama yet. This is a collector's item so if you have an itch here, best scratch it. Few of them out there as Cory took the filter market by storm. It looks unused.
I snagged a '38 Silex vacuum pot (NB: no intentional correlation with Herr Schmidt's birth year, though close) with ivory colored handles off Canada eBay that was listed incorrectly as a percolator. I will post some pics once I have it cleaned up and blessed it with some deserved micro-lot Bolivian.
Heavens, life is good.
B|FilterAddict
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I knew it was only a matter of time before the urge to start collecting antique rare vac-pots was going to catch up with you, Dave ;D
I bring them home, clean them up ( Cafiza is my friend) and test them out, before putting them up for display. I like using the older vacpots...but I would feel really guilty if I managed to break one.
That's why I use the newer Yama's, mostly. I can get a replacement part in a week or so (yes...it's happened a couple of times)
The original documentation ( instructions, boxes etc are very rare... and fetch unbelievable prices in antique shops in this area in Kansas)
Gary
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I reserved http://vacpots.com this morning. I would like to use the next year to build it out, ever so slowly, a site on vacpots.
For those of you who are vacpot geeks, what would appeal to you in a site. I know my own interests but am curious what you might find worth reading/researching/have as a quick reference.
Cory had their headquarters down in Chicago. I am going to talk with a research librarian here about library exchange processes and then spend a day at the main Chicago library seeing what is 'bound' about the history of Cory's operation.
Time to move my html skills beyond Frontpage. CSS anyone?
B|Java
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Score. An unused Silex porcelain from the late 30's.
B|FiltersRUs
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Like vac pots? Here are six of the dozen or so I have. Nothing like (http://www.baharris.org/coffee/Brian Harris') has, but I specialize in vintage Silex vac pots only.
(http://home.earthlink.net/~cm_harmon/images/coffee_collection_01.jpg)
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Vintage Silex, huh? I grabbed one off of eBay a few months ago, and have sort of moth-balled it, as the gasket seems a bit hard after 60-some years. Do you know where I could find a new gasket?
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Vintage Silex, huh? I grabbed one off of eBay a few months ago, and have sort of moth-balled it, as the gasket seems a bit hard after 60-some years. Do you know where I could find a new gasket?
If it is a narrow neck, you can buy one here: http://www.cb-molding.com/store/AntiqueCoffeeGasket.cfm
There are no large neck gasket manufacturers that I have been able to locate. I could look at the dimensions of an 8-cupper if you don't have one and provide them so you could determine if it would fit the Silex. You could buy the upper globe to the Yama and pull it off the globe. eBay has just the Cory tops all the time for around $10. New Yama top here:
http://www.northwestglass.com/coffee-syphon-replacement-bottom-p-230.html
I have read that boiling in soapy water helps, or soaking in vinegar might help in softening it. Not sure I would want to try the vinegar from a residual perspective. Some suggest a silicone bead. Finally, you might try soaking it in glycerin:
http://www.bulknutrition.com/p2007_Vegetable_Glycerine_Now_Foods.html
I have never tried any of these but I might be right there with you when the vintage Silex arrives.
B|Java
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B|J et. al: I'm loving the Yama. I drink so little coffee at home (but what I drink at work, at church, and elsewhere is generally my own beans), but when I do, of late it's been in the vac*. I'm still dialing in my brewing variables; accustomed to the Aeropress's insanely easy control of variables, I'm finding the Yama to be a bit more of a sports car -- tighter steering calling for more care in nailing the grind and the timing of stirring, etc.
Too fun.
* Months ago, it was all about espresso at home. But this winter I've been doing few roasts, and counting on frozen assets. I've focused on light roasts, so the Vac pot has replaced the espresso for the most part. Some darker roasts at work just get done in the Aero or, by golly, occasionally with a fine grind in the company Bunn.
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B|J et. al: I'm loving the Yama. . . I'm still dialing in my brewing variables; accustomed to the Aeropress's insanely easy control of variables, I'm finding the Yama to be a bit more of a sports car -- tighter steering calling for more care in nailing the grind and the timing of stirring, etc.
I absolutely love the analogy. Sports car it is. I was waiting for you to come over to the vacpot side and away from that A'error-Plastic contraption <grins>.
B|Java
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There is a place for the truck and a place for the sports car...
I can't imagine trying to take my vacpot on a trip to Chile.... but I do love the vacpot on the weekends, out on the open road.
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I am trying to find some of those bamboo stirring paddles that they are using in the video below. Watch the video and at about :48 seconds in, you will see the guy use one of the paddles to stir the vac pot. I already have a rice paddle which looks just like this (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UF0L18). I want some of the more narrow paddles as seen in the video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRd7H33PD6Y&feature=related[/youtube]
I have found them for sale at espressoparts.com (http://espressoparts2.zoovy.com/product/YAMA_BAMBOO/Bamboo_Vacpot_Stir_Stick__Contoured_Vacuum_Coffee_Brewer_Stirrer.html) for $3.86 plus 6.00 shipping. @10.00 for a bamboo paddle seems kinds steep to me, especially since my rice paddle came in a set of 4 bamboo kitchen utensils, all of them for $5.
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I am trying to find some of those bamboo stirring paddles that they are using in the video below. Watch the video and at about :48 seconds in, you will see the guy use one of the paddles to stir the vac pot. I already have a rice paddle which looks just like this ([url]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UF0L18[/url]). I want some of the more narrow paddles as seen in the video:
I have found them for sale at espressoparts.com ([url]http://espressoparts2.zoovy.com/product/YAMA_BAMBOO/Bamboo_Vacpot_Stir_Stick__Contoured_Vacuum_Coffee_Brewer_Stirrer.html[/url]) for $3.86 plus 6.00 shipping. @10.00 for a bamboo paddle seems kinds steep to me, especially since my rice paddle came in a set of 4 bamboo kitchen utensils, all of them for $5.
That is the only source I know... I have the same or at least very similar spoon you already have and it works out very well for my Cory but the Hario has that tall thin upper chamber.... don't know what to say..
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What's so special about bamboo?
Get yourself a stick of maple and your pocketknife and set to whittlin'.
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Or do what I do - stop by your local paint store & pick up a half-dozen wooden paint stirrers.
K.I.S.S.
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http://www.northwestglass.com/bamboo-vacuum-syphon-stir-stick-p-359.html
Bamboo sticks. They impart the essence of the East <grins> without the syrup of the maple that my fellow Lake Cheddar resident suggests.
B|Java
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What's so special about bamboo?
Get yourself a stick of maple and your pocketknife and set to whittlin'.
I actually reshaped my rice paddle with a pocket knife and some 80 grit sandpaper to make it narrower.:)
Thanks for the link B|Java
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Score.
For you fellow vacpot fiends, I nabbed a new in the box, Polan Fireglas (correct spelling), off eBay last week. Polan's were made in the '40's in Huntington, WVA. I love (double underline) the filter. Both the coffee pot and the filter come in unblemished boxes. The original price of the unit is handwritten on the top of the box, $3.95.
B|Java
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OK. I surrender. You win the 'most toys' title. :-[
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Score.
For you fellow vacpot fiends, I nabbed a new in the box, Polan Fireglas (correct spelling), off eBay last week. Polan's were made in the '40's in Huntington, WVA. I love (double underline) the filter. Both the coffee pot and the filter come in unblemished boxes. The original price of the unit is handwritten on the top of the box, $3.49.
B|Java
Looks like we're going to have to do a group buy for few hundred large-mouth vac pot gaskets (http://www.cb-molding.com/store/AntiqueCoffeeGasket.cfm). I'm in for five @ $13 ea - anyone else?
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OK. I surrender. You win the 'most toys' title. :-[
I have heard that before. Wave the white flag publicly on city hall steps and I will believe it.
B|Java
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Looks like we're going to have to do a group buy for few hundred large-mouth vac pot gaskets ([url]http://www.cb-molding.com/store/AntiqueCoffeeGasket.cfm[/url]). I'm in for five @ $13 ea - anyone else?
Tex,
One of the guys at the Yahoo Vacuumpot Collectors group said he has the linked gaskets. He feels that they are too pliable for the weight involved. Another guy who is a retired engineer that worked with polymers said that they probably had leftover goop (my term, not his) and probably isn't constituted correctly for the task at hand. Easily remanufactured if we can generate 387 more needs.
B|Java
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Vintage Silex, huh? I grabbed one off of eBay a few months ago, and have sort of moth-balled it, as the gasket seems a bit hard after 60-some years. Do you know where I could find a new gasket?
If it is a narrow neck, you can buy one here: [url]http://www.cb-molding.com/store/AntiqueCoffeeGasket.cfm[/url]
There are no large neck gasket manufacturers that I have been able to locate. I could look at the dimensions of an 8-cupper if you don't have one and provide them so you could determine if it would fit the Silex. You could buy the upper globe to the Yama and pull it off the globe. eBay has just the Cory tops all the time for around $10. New Yama top here:
[url]http://www.northwestglass.com/coffee-syphon-replacement-bottom-p-230.html[/url]
I have read that boiling in soapy water helps, or soaking in vinegar might help in softening it. Not sure I would want to try the vinegar from a residual perspective. Some suggest a silicone bead. Finally, you might try soaking it in glycerin:
[url]http://www.bulknutrition.com/p2007_Vegetable_Glycerine_Now_Foods.html[/url]
I have never tried any of these but I might be right there with you when the vintage Silex arrives.
B|Java
It is wide-mouth. I have thought of trying to fasten it to the top using silicon caulk, but fear the effects on flavor/health. I will first try boiling in soapy water.
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Stunning photos of the Cona, from a down-under vacpotman.
Scroll down for the full portfolio (click on any one of them):
http://abstractgourmet.com/2009/02/vacuum-brewing-with-the-cona/
Pyment is Cona-bound. I am handicapping the odds, by months, for the remainder of 2009.
B|Java
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Those cona vac pots are class act... I like how they have a place in the stand for the top part to rest when the coffee is done brewing...
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The burner sold at SM's is sold elsewhere as a cigar lighter. SM's price is good., but I did find
http://tinyurl.com/bxhftk
http://tinyurl.com/c8dw2p
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Well I just had my first causality in my vacuum pot collection. The bottom portion of my Yama 5 cupper got busted while sitting in the sink to be washed. :( It was bound to happen sooner or later. Being my most frequently used vac pot, it will be missed.
Anybody broke the top part of their Yama 5 cup and want to sell me the bottom portion? ;D ;)
If not they have it at Espressoparts.com for $18.
B|Java,
Can your group buy source get replacement parts?
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B|Java,
Can your group buy source get replacement parts?
While parts are available to me if I order a volume threshold, I don't want to become a retail shop. The Czarina is still talking to me though 4 unsold units are in the 3rd bdroom, awaiting adoption papers.
I enjoy her conversation. Sorry.
B|Java
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I found the Yama 5 cup replacement bottom at North West Glass (http://www.northwestglass.com/coffee-syphon-replacement-bottom-p-229.html) for $11.00 plus shipping. Best price I found on it.
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I'm starting to get frustrated with my vac pot. I replaced the bottom pot on my 5 cup stove top model not long ago and now I have broken the top, funnel portion twice. The first time was a small crack at the bottom of the stem that was repaired with epoxy and and now the stem snapped off. I try to be really gentle with the brewer. I wash it as soon as I'm finish brewing and it goes right back into the original box and is stored in a safe corner of the cabinets, but it seems even the slightest bump will damage the vac pot.
I'm thinking about getting one of the vintage stainless steel Cory vac pots from Ebay. Has anyone used the stainless steel pot? Is the taste differ much from a glass brewer?
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I'm starting to get frustrated with my vac pot. I replaced the bottom pot on my 5 cup stove top model not long ago and now I have broken the top, funnel portion twice. The first time was a small crack at the bottom of the stem that was repaired with epoxy and and now the stem snapped off. I try to be really gentle with the brewer. I wash it as soon as I'm finish brewing and it goes right back into the original box and is stored in a safe corner of the cabinets, but it seems even the slightest bump will damage the vac pot.
I'm thinking about getting one of the vintage stainless steel Cory vac pots from Ebay. Has anyone used the stainless steel pot? Is the taste differ much from a glass brewer?
I've got a s/s Hotpoint vac pot. I don't like it because you can't see what's happening in the bowls. But I can't tell the difference as far as taste goes.
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I don't like it because you can't see what's happening in the bowls.
I know what you mean. Watching the brewing process is half the fun....
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I don't like it because you can't see what's happening in the bowls.
I know what you mean. Watching the brewing process is half the fun....
I'm surprised I don't break my Yama - anyone who's seen my hands shaking would figure I'd go through two or three a week. But so far I've yet to break any of my vac pots & I've been using them for 30 years or so.
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Does anyone here know if anyone makes a stove-top vac pot with a smaller capacity than the Yama 5-cup?
I'd love to have a smaller capacity, but I have no interest at all in having to deal with that burner gizmo.
Susan
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Does anyone here know if anyone makes a stove-top vac pot with a smaller capacity than the Yama 5-cup?
I'd love to have a smaller capacity, but I have no interest at all in having to deal with that burner gizmo.
Susan
I think they have a three cup??
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I think they have a three cup??
I don't think it's a stove-top, though, but maybe I'm wrong.
I'll double-check.
Susan
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Yama's smallest stovetop is a 5-cup, 22 oz unit. The smallest unit they make is a 3-cup tabletop which delivers about 14.5 oz.
B|Java
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Yama's smallest stovetop is a 5-cup, 22 oz unit. The smallest unit they make is a 3-cup tabletop which delivers about 14.5 oz.
B|Java
Zat's what I thought....
Boo Hoo Hooooo.....
Susan
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Yama's smallest stovetop is a 5-cup, 22 oz unit.
Most of my mugs are 20oz. ;)
I do have a 24oz that I had custom made but honestly it's unaestheticly large...
20oz mugs are a nice good size that is big but not goofy big.
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Yama's smallest stovetop is a 5-cup, 22 oz unit.
Most of my mugs are 20oz. ;)
I do have a 24oz that I had custom made but honestly it's unaestheticly large...
20oz mugs are a nice good size that is big but not goofy big.
That's just too much coffee for me to drink fast enough for it to stay hot.
My current favorite mug holds 8 oz.
Susan
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That's just too much coffee for me to drink fast enough for it to stay hot.
My current favorite mug holds 8 oz.
My favorite tea cup is 8oz. ;)
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The thing to look at when considering any vac-pot for single cup use is how much water is left in the bottom when the coffee is brewing up top.
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The thing to look at when considering any vac-pot for single cup use is how much water is left in the bottom when the coffee is brewing up top.
Great point Peter ... that is why they have a minimum size to them.
:)
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My wife stopped drinking my morning coffee so I switched back to my smaller Cona Junior, which is a stove top. It makes one nice healthy mug (16oz). Or two nice sized cups (10oz ea). I am not sure I understand the previous comment on the amount of water in the bottom but whether I use it full or for just the one mug, the amount of water at the bottom while brewing is the same as that is determined by they syphon tube/carafe bottom distance, which is fixed. But we knew that so that's why I'm not sure I understand. So long as you use the correct/desired ratio in the beginning, it all comes out good in the end. IMO
I use the double glass walled Bodum Bistro jumbo mug. Love it although quite fragile. All glass brewing/drinking except for the stainless steel bottom in the glass kettle which is used to preheat the water.
Unfortunately the Cona Jr has become rare (I grabbed up 3 full sets on ebay years ago) and I already broken a top and then a bottom over the years of use. I try to pay *extra* close attention while washing now. I also use it with a Cory rod as it has a larger head piece, making it longer overall and easier to place into the funnel then the Cona rod. Works great, never had a dead stall. I have used it on an electric stove in the past too, currently using it on a gas stove.
Interesting to note a new set of instructions I saw for a Cona brewer are now saying to start off with hot water too. One thing they mention is to wait for the bottom to start boiling before adding the top. This I find interesting and very hard to pull off using a slightly heavier handed coffee/water ratio as the initial bloom is too large for the size of the funnel. The water shoots up so fast you cannot stir enough to prevent the killer sized bloom. A slower rise enables me to stir and prevent too much bloom. This is using it to its fullest capacity.
The Classicona user on ebay has what he calls spares, one top and one bottom, each for sale.
Rich
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I am not sure I understand the previous comment on the amount of water in the bottom but whether I use it full or for just the one mug, the amount of water at the bottom while brewing is the same as that is determined by they syphon tube/carafe bottom distance, which is fixed. But we knew that so that's why I'm not sure I understand. So long as you use the correct/desired ratio in the beginning, it all comes out good in the end. IMO
Rich
There's two things at work here; your mug size, and your last statement about correct ratio.
I'll make a 12oz. mug, and because there's always a few ounces left in the bottom with my Yama the coffee seems to be diluted a bit. Unless, as you say, you really bump up the water:coffee ratio. But I can't keep the ratio the same as my 12oz. mug coming from my press pot. With the full 5-cup Yama, the water in the bottom is less percentage-wise, and it brews better w/o bumping up the amount of ground coffee. The Cona may leave less water in the bottom than the Yama.
Interesting to note a new set of instructions I saw for a Cona brewer are now saying to start off with hot water too. One thing they mention is to wait for the bottom to start boiling before adding the top. This I find interesting and very hard to pull off using a slightly heavier handed coffee/water ratio as the initial bloom is too large for the size of the funnel. The water shoots up so fast you cannot stir enough to prevent the killer sized bloom. A slower rise enables me to stir and prevent too much bloom. This is using it to its fullest capacity.
Something that B|Java taught me to incorporate was to get all the water up north before putting the ground coffee in, but not with such vigorously rolling water that it splashes out. If you put the coffee in before the water goes north, or when the water is up there but still not hot enough, you'll be soaking your grounds in water that's only around 150deg. So what I do is get the water up there, rolling slightly but not so much that the Cory rod is dancing, and then adding the coffee.
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I guess it's the dilution thing that people talk about that I just don't understand or experience. Let me explain.
Let's say we use 55g per liter of water.
In a vac pot that means the 55 grams is brewing in less then a liter of water as there is always some water in the bottom. If the 55g is now being brewed with less then 1 liter, the brew in the top should be stronger because you are using less water to brew the fixed 55 gram amount. So, IMO, this stronger brew equals just right when it gets a little diluted after it travels south. To me, the end product tastes like, and, is brewed with 55 grams per liter of water.
And that is why I don't understand or experience the dilution thing with a vac pot.
My comment about using more coffee is just a preference, not to offset any dilution thing. I use the same ratios regardless of brew method, except for cross country driving,,,I'm real heavy on the coffee ratio then. :-)
Regarding when to add coffee....if I waited to all the water was north, bubbling, then added coffee, I would be cleaning a mess due to the bloom if using it at full potential.
Rich
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That makes good sense the way you explain it, it just hasn't been my experience with the Yama. But I will certainly do more research. :)
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Great thread and discussion. I always wait for the water to be up top, the cory rod settles, and then add coffee. I have never had a mess. I start hot, lower the temp as the water migrates to the top and then lower to brewing temp just as the water is about to finish migration. Always works well for me. I LOVE MY 8 CUP STOVE TOP! My drip technivorm only gets used now when the boss brews decaf......... Jim
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... I LOVE MY 8 CUP STOVE TOP! ... Jim
Al Gore will never pry my 8-cup stovetop from my "dead, cold hands."
B|Heston
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... I LOVE MY 8 CUP STOVE TOP! ... Jim
Al Gore will never pry my 8-cup stovetop from my "dead, cold hands."
B|Heston
vac pots don't kill people - only people kill people
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I have never had a mess.
Different physical characteristics between a Yama and Cona, so we are talking apples and oranges about mess versus no mess using the wait-until-the-water-is-all-at-the-top method on a different brands of vac pots.
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Now here's a tiny vacpot for all you partial pot makers - - a Hario mini-phon that makes 4 ounces. Snagged off Twitter. Los Angeles company carries them, hefty price tag at nearly $100.
Who will be the 1st GCBC to pull the trigger? Where are those partial-pot-makers? http://www.merae.com/product.aspx?pid=448
B|Java
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Up next: The Hario thimble brewer. Brews 1/4 oz of coffee. Costs $650.
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Yeah ... the world of big effort ... little return ... and huge price.
:)
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Now here's a tiny vacpot for all you partial pot makers - - a Hario mini-phon that makes 4 ounces. Snagged off Twitter. Los Angeles company carries them, hefty price tag at nearly $100.
Who will be the 1st GCBC to pull the trigger? Where are those partial-pot-makers? [url]http://www.merae.com/product.aspx?pid=448[/url]
B|Java
It just doesn't have that "mad scientist" appeal.
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the website says 4 oz??? but over in the Hario tea area they have a 10 oz siphon brewer??? wonder if this is a miss print... 4 oz seems real small..
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Up next: The Hario thimble brewer. Brews 1/4 oz of coffee. Costs $650.
Vac ristrettos? They'll sell a million at that price >:D
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I ran across this brewer (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-tabletop-coffee-syphons-vacuum-coffee-pot-tca-3_W0QQitemZ280369120385QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSmall_Kitchen_Appliances_US?hash=item41474d4481&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A1|39%3A1|72%3A1205|293%3A1|294%3A25#ebayphotohosting) today on Ebay. Looks just like a Yama TT brewer (even the same model # I think) but it is labeled with the brand name of "OCAREE". The handle on the stand is of a different design than the Yama. Looks interesting. Anyone ever heard or or seen this brand before?
Edit:
While posting this message they increased the shipping from $17 to $28. :o
(http://usih.merchantrunglobal.com/ImageHosting/ViewImage.aspx?GlobalID=1003&MerchantID=3362&ImageID=5&DisplaySize=-1)
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I ran across ... today on Ebay. Looks just like a Yama TT brewer (even the same model # I think) but it is labeled with the brand name of "OCAREE". The handle on the stand is of a different design than the Yama. Looks interesting. Anyone ever heard or or seen this brand before?
Edit:
While posting this message they increased the shipping from $17 to $28. :o
Looks like a Hario: http://www.harioglass.com/english/products/taste/syphon.htm
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If you get a Hario and a Yama, still in boxes, or not, lay them side by side, you'll swear they are made by the same people. Even the boxes/packaging have similar markings/writings.
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One of the boards I keep an eye on is the Barista Exchange. I am surprised that so many Yama and Hario users still fiddle with the cotton filters (guess that is why they sell for me on eBay). Everyone wants to know how to get and keep the filters clean.
Mercy, go to the Cory glass rod and quit worrying about how to clean the cotton filter.
Done.
B|Java
(http://coffeecompanion.com/images/ip_corey_glassrod.jpg)
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One of the boards I keep an eye on is the Barista Exchange. I am surprised that so many Yama and Hario users still fiddle with the cotton filters (guess that is why they sell for me on eBay). Everyone wants to know how to get and keep the filters clean.
Mercy, go to the Cory glass rod and quit worrying about how to clean the cotton filter.
Done.
B|Java
Too many clueless people, afraid of "The Big Stall."
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One of the boards I keep an eye on is the Barista Exchange. I am surprised that so many Yama and Hario users still fiddle with the cotton filters (guess that is why they sell for me on eBay). Everyone wants to know how to get and keep the filters clean.
Mercy, go to the Cory glass rod and quit worrying about how to clean the cotton filter.
Done.
B|Java
Too many clueless people, afraid of "The Big Stall."
the elusive stall hat I have never had with a cory rod (that's it now I will never get another brew out of my cory rods ~~sigh~~)
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Too many clueless people, afraid of "The Big Stall."
I've gotten a few total stalls, but after taking B|J's "dunking" advise I never had one again. The stall definitely seems to be a result of too much stirring.
- -Barrett
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Well, I had a disastrous stall just now. :o
Although nobody was injured—thank goodness—my new pot exploded to the far corners of the kitchen. If you ever should take the advice of a newbie vacpot user, do NOT, under any circumstance, ever ever EVER try to circumvent the stall with a cool towel wrap. :nono: Really bad idea! Now, where's my dunce cap? :BangHead: The stall probably had to do with too much stirring, since the ground was the same as my previous two vacpot brews.
Happy to report, after 45 minutes of clean up, the cory made it through fine—along with the humans and pets. :)
PM
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Well, I had a disastrous stall just now. :o
Although nobody was injured—thank goodness—my new pot exploded to the far corners of the kitchen. If you ever should take the advice of a newbie vacpot user, do NOT, under any circumstance, ever ever EVER try to circumvent the stall with a cool towel wrap. :nono: Really bad idea! Now, where's my dunce cap? :BangHead: The stall probably had to do with too much stirring, since the ground was the same as my previous two vacpot brews.
Happy to report, after 45 minutes of clean up, the cory made it through fine—along with the humans and pets. :)
PM
Damn, you're lucky no one was hurt! I use a cool, wet towel all the time; so maybe I'll rethink the wisdom of that? :o
Thanks!
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Well, I had a disastrous stall just now. :o
If you ever should take the advice of a newbie vacpot user, do NOT, under any circumstance, ever ever EVER try to circumvent the stall with a cool towel wrap. :nono: Really bad idea! Now, where's my dunce cap? :BangHead: The stall probably had to do with too much stirring, since the ground was the same as my previous two vacpot brews.
Happy to report, after 45 minutes of clean up, the cory made it through fine—along with the humans and pets. :)
PM
Kudos for being willing to eat some humble pie, and post this, so the rest of us dunderheads will know better. Thanks.
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Well, I had a disastrous stall just now. :o
Although nobody was injured—thank goodness—my new pot exploded ...do NOT, under any circumstance, ever ever EVER try to circumvent the stall with a cool towel wrap...The stall probably had to do with too much stirring, since the ground was the same as my previous two vacpot brews...
Paul, thanks for the post.
All, please read the instruction sheet that is provided with all pots I distribute. In those I offer these suggestions:
1) Do not stir. Stirring separates the fines from the grinds and those fines clog the Cory filter and cause stalls. Instead, push the grounds down the side, saturating the grind, without stirring. (Vienna and darker roasts - showing oils - tend to stall more than lighter roasts). If you must stir, use the cloth filter, not a glass rod.
2) Be very careful about even a drop of water on the pot. After filling the pot, form a habit of wiping the bottom and sides of the pot to remove all traces of moisture. This helps avoid stress on the glass as heat is applied. I am compulsive about this.
As Paul humbly notes, don't use cool, wet cloths as a method of expedite draw down. If your unit stalls, just leave it sit off the burner, and self cool, during which it will self-draw down. At most, you will lose 70 grams of coffee.
B|Java
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As Paul humbly notes, don't use cool, wet cloths as a method of expedite draw down. If your unit stalls, just leave it sit off the burner, and self cool, during which it will self-draw down. At most, you will lose 70 grams of coffee.
B|Java
Someone did that "self cool", I think a member of the SM list, or maybe here, it imploded a good time later. The advice that comes with Cona models for a "complete" stall is to put it back on the heat to force it north again.
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This was the first time I actually mopped the ceiling (noticed the coffee stains later on). Given the velocity of the glass shards and very hot coffee, I count my lucky stars.
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As Paul humbly notes, don't use cool, wet cloths as a method of expedite draw down. If your unit stalls, just leave it sit off the burner, and self cool, during which it will self-draw down. At most, you will lose 70 grams of coffee.
B|Java
Someone did that "self cool", I think a member of the SM list, or maybe here, it imploded a good time later. The advice that comes with Cona models for a "complete" stall is to put it back on the heat to force it north again.
If liquid is present in the south end, yes. If not, toss a towel over it and leave it alone.
Did some reading on the homelist this morning. What I find odd is that in reading about the rare implosion, while everyone discusses "fines" in grinds from mediocre grinders as the cause, no one attributes or discusses stirring the grinds as a cause. Don't stir. Push the grounds to immerse them. Later on, in a 2nd thread, almost as an afterthought, the gent that had problems eventually comes to the conclusion that his stirring was the issue, particularly stirring at the end.
As well, if your grinder is inexpensive and throws a lot of fines, try sticking with the cloth filters that come with the unit and see if the stalls lessen.
In my one year with the Yamas, I have had 3 slow drawdowns (never a complete stall). All were with darker roasts which I had purchased. I use a Macap 4 and grind a tad finer than pourover. Here is the rice paddle I use to push the grounds down the side to immerse them: http://www.simply-natural.biz/Rice_Paddle.php (http://www.simply-natural.biz/Rice_Paddle.php). You can grab one at any Asian food store.
B|Java
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Someone had posted a video from a Japanese cafe where the guy stirred the water more than once; I think that stuck in my mind as a "good" thing to do. The counter suggestion simply played second fiddle in my mind.
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Someone had posted a video from a Japanese cafe where the guy stirred the water more than once; I think that stuck in my mind as a "good" thing to do. The counter suggestion simply played second fiddle in my mind.
Understood. Not trying to 'grind' you at all. Not my intent. I am trying to encourage others to learn by your experience and 'read and heed.' Thanks for your willingness to share your experience.
B|Java
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Understood. Not trying to 'grind' you at all. Not my intent. I am trying to encourage others to learn by your experience and 'read and heed.' Thanks for your willingness to share your experience.
B|Java
Sure thing. Not feeling ground at all. :)
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That measuring spoon that came with my Yama? I use the squared-off handle of it, to push my floating coffee down. But that's only at the beginning, when the coffee first went into the hot water. After that, with the correct amount of heat so that the brewing coffee is gurgling nicely, I don't think it needs any intervention.
Like B|Yama, I've never had a complete stall. But on one particularly slow draw-down, I lifted the glass rod out, thinking it was stalled. Why would this not be a safe resolution to a stalled brew, assuming you were using a glass rod?
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Why would this not be a safe resolution to a stalled brew, assuming you were using a glass rod?
It won't budge.
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So, I've started a thread on Yama, the good luck pot. Though you might not think my pot itself was so lucky, it was nice enough not to cut me to shreds as it transformed, so I consider it a lucky pot. Here's the thread (where you can see an image of lil Yama).
http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=7052.0
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RenoB stopped by to pick up an 8-cupper. He brought along his Krups grinder to see if the grind would throw too many fines to try and use a glass rod with it. Short story, it worked fine without a stall.
The setting we tried it on had plenty of fines; some dust-like in the grind. It was one notch finer than I would use on a go-forward basis. We pushed down the grinds to saturate them, without ever stirring. The draw-down ran 1:10 in comparison to my typical :45-1:00. All in all, a very good draw down, considering how fine the overall grind was. Great cup of Costa Rican.
Others ask me if "their" grinder will work with the glass rod. It is always hard to tell. I know the Macap 4 works but can't tell others if theirs will work. After today's experience, I am more convinced than ever that it isn't the price of the grinder that is so critical to avoid the stall with the rod as it is to not stirring the grinds with the vacpot.
Just one opinion and your mileage and experience may differ. B|Java
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Great cup indeed Dave! Thanks for the demonstration/instruction, sure beats reading a book about it. Gonna go solo here for the first time shortly, will let you know how it goes.
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First time jitters LoL
Was nervous about pressing the top into the pot so I didn't get a good seal at first. Fixed this by removing it from the heat and letting it cool down. Second attempt better, phew.
After adding ground coffee and pushing it down, it was really bubbling. So, nervous again, I removed it from heat after only a minute. Then the draw down started, very slow. Too slow. But not a complete stall, probably 3+ minutes before the final wash out.
I went one step coarser with the Krupps than what we used this afternoon. Good cup none the less (Guat Peaberry). Look forward to trying again in the AM!
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I followed Dave's instructions to a T and this has become my preferred method of brewing. I didn't have a rice paddle so I do what Peter does and use the end of the Yama spoon. I think that Dave is right in that it is VERY important to not stir. My grinder is probably a good example that you can use a lousy grinder and still have excellent results with a Cory and Yama. My grinder is a 15 year old Braun burr grinder. It is worn out and throws a LOT of fines. I am convinced that if I stirred I would have a mess. If you follow Dave's instructions you will have no problem. I will be replacing my grinder soon with a Roncillio and by the way Dave, from the football thread.....you are an OLD guy ;D Cheers my friend.
Steve
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...and by the way Dave, from the football thread.....you are an OLD guy ;D Cheers my friend.
Steve
Steve, indeed I am and I wouldn't have it any other way. Think of it in terms of all the mistakes I have learned from along the way <grins>. It all comes together once you hit the Big 60, if you are willing to keep living and learning.
Cheers back, B|Java
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After adding ground coffee and pushing it down, it was really bubbling. So, nervous again, I removed it from heat after only a minute. Then the draw down started, very slow. Too slow. But not a complete stall, probably 3+ minutes before the final wash out.
I went one step coarser with the Krupps than what we used this afternoon. Good cup none the less (Guat Peaberry). Look forward to trying again in the AM!
Rob,
I would go back to that grind level we used, merely pull the pot from the heat at 1:45 and let it draft down on its own for 1:15. Same steep time I use, merely pulling at the front end and catching it at the rear end. Patience.
B|Java
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I wouldn't question anyone's findings, but it just makes me wonder about the stirring/pushing down idea...
With the Yama, there's always some water in the bottom and steam going north. If the rod is gently bouncing, that means there's steam pushing past it, so how would those fines get stuck there when someone stirs?
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I wouldn't question anyone's findings, but it just makes me wonder about the stirring/pushing down idea...
With the Yama, there's always some water in the bottom and steam going north. If the rod is gently bouncing, that means there's steam pushing past it, so how would those fines get stuck there when someone stirs?
I am not sure vapor is going north once the vacuum is created. Fines get dislodged from the 'mass' during stirring. Rods don't bounce when the heat is turned down to 4/10 after coffee is pushed down. Additionally, the vortex/downdraft created has a tendency to pull the silt down and it gets lodged under the bumpy surface of the rod. My 5cent theory.
That from a guy who earned was given a C in physics.
B|Java
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Right behind you Dave, I turn 49 on Wednesday. The alternative to not growing older is worse :D
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Two more pots under my belt, both with VERY long draw down - 5+ min after removed from heat. Creates a bitter brew.
Only thing I observe that's different from what I read is that, while under heat I get some bubbling (not "dancing") in the top. Can't turn it down further as it is on my smallest (gas) burner at its lowest setting. Not sure what to try next.
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mine bubbles, but quick draw down.
2nd brew was bitter, too. Bad aftertaste, like chewing on an astringent nut.
Out of 4 brews with my Sumatran, all have been different (2 on vacpot, one french press, one Technivorm).
None were too pleasant!
Maybe the roast?
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Two more pots under my belt, both with VERY long draw down - 5+ min after removed from heat. Creates a bitter brew.
Only thing I observe that's different from what I read is that, while under heat I get some bubbling (not "dancing") in the top. Can't turn it down further as it is on my smallest (gas) burner at its lowest setting. Not sure what to try next.
Can't figure that out as we had it nailed yesterday. Hmmm...
Start with the cloth filter and compare results.
B|Java
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mine bubbles, but quick draw down.
2nd brew was bitter, too. Bad aftertaste, like chewing on an astringent nut.
Out of 4 brews with my Sumatran, all have been different (2 on vacpot, one french press, one Technivorm).
None were too pleasant!
Maybe the roast?
Sounds like you didn't get through first crack. How long from onset of first to pull from heat?
B|Java
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Can't turn it down further as it is on my smallest (gas) burner at its lowest setting. Not sure what to try next.
Try moving it off the burner partially, if you can do that without it falling over.
I feel dum for letting my logic stand in the way of others experience... During the afternoons when the sun is coming in my west windows, when the sunlight hits a brewing vacpot, it's a glorious thing to watch the turbulence of the brew in the top globe, it really is. See that dance, it makes it hard to believe stirring will have a different effect than pushing down.
That said, I'm still a pusher downer.
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Sounds like you didn't get through first crack. How long from onset of first to pull from heat?
B|Java
[/quote]
I thought I went a bit far into 2nd. Still finding it hard to sense a break between 1st and 2nd. 1st seems to drag on and roll into 2nd.
Maybe I need a certain type of bean to help me? Or, start profiling to use temp as an indicator.
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This is not a question or an answer but my testimonial:
I just got my first Vacpot, 5-cup Yama stovetop, last week. I used the cloth filter (what a pain) while waiting for my Cory filter. That allowed me to find suitably low temps for my electric range's burners.
Starting with filtered water from the hot tap on my water tower, I put the pot on the small burner (with the wire grate on it) set to seven on the temp controller. With the top bowl/funnel in the stand, I grind and add the coffee to the bowl and put it on the pot. When steam causes the steeping coffee to bubble I immediately turn the temp to a setting of three.
I was worried that my grind would be too fine and cause a stall but one complete turn off of the finest setting on my manual Zassenhaus grinder has not been a problem. I haven't felt compelled to stir or push down grounds during the process.
One minute thirty seconds up north I remove from the heat and a minute or so later I can enjoy one of the best cups of coffee ever . I did back off to 3/4 the amount of coffee I had been using for drip and press methods.
This is the only way I ever plan on brewing coffee again.
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I thought I went a bit far into 2nd. Still finding it hard to sense a break between 1st and 2nd. 1st seems to drag on and roll into 2nd.
Maybe I need a certain type of bean to help me? Or, start profiling to use temp as an indicator.
I remember you saying that the bean was taken about 20 seconds into 2nd - that's getting pretty close to Charbucks territory around these parts. :) That being said, my first instinct is that your roast is progressing too quickly - creating the harshness you are experiencing. If memory serves, you are using a HotTop? I'm not familiar with those machines, but there are many on here that are...hopefully they can chime in and get this conundrum solved.
If you can control the heat manually, try cutting your heat in 1/2 at the onset of 1st crack. The beans are exotherming at this point and adding heat by themselves, possibly driving you into an immediate 2nd crack. I try for a 20 degree (F) rise every 60 seconds...about a degree every 3 ticks on the clock.
90-120 seconds from 1c to 2c is what I shoot for.
-Stubbie
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Much appreciated.
Gotta nail it before I dare let any of that JBM near the gizmo.
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Two more pots under my belt, both with VERY long draw down - 5+ min after removed from heat. Creates a bitter brew.
Only thing I observe that's different from what I read is that, while under heat I get some bubbling (not "dancing") in the top. Can't turn it down further as it is on my smallest (gas) burner at its lowest setting. Not sure what to try next.
Two variables from yesterday's success:
(1) gas vs electric (mine) but find that hard to believe would make that kind of difference
(2) your bean
We were working with a city plus/full city bean yesterday. The occasional stall that I get comes with an oily bean. Were you working with a Vienna or darker bean?
B|Java
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Anyone have any luck with electric vacpots?
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Anyone have any luck with electric vacpots?
Yes, the Bodum Santos I used for a while made a more than acceptable cup.
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Even more confused now...
Threw the last few beans of the roast in my grinder this morning. Chucked the lot into a one cup French press (estimate a decent spoonfull). Just under 4min steep.
Best cup of coffee by a mile. All the taste/body, none of the fust or biterness.
Guess the variable isn't roast level. Must be the time/temp in the vacpot?? Time to roast up a couple of batches and start again. I really need my 10lbs of El Sal to come so I can keep working the same bean and nail this. Has to be timing... mind you, CAN you overheat the water in the top of a vacpot or will the physics of it not let you? My gas burner is quite fierce!
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Chucked the lot into a one cup French press (estimate a decent spoonfull). Just under 4min steep.
Best cup of coffee by a mile. All the taste/body, none of the fust or biterness. Has to be timing... mind you, CAN you overheat the water in the top of a vacpot or will the physics of it not let you? My gas burner is quite fierce!
No it doesn't have to be the timing. I would suggest re-reading the instruction sheet re: stove settings that I attached in an earlier post in the distribution thread. I know you said you the trashman got your earlier one. Why overheat? Keep the bugger low man.
If you are getting a great cup with a press pot, go out on the street and peddle the Yama to some unsuspecting fellow. Tell him it is the easiest prep for American coffee he will ever find <grins>.
B|Java
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I think I over heated trying to shift more water north.
To be honest, I though the water temp in the top would be stable whatever the base temp.... I guess the top chamber's water temperature can be affected, then?
I most likely boiled the brew, hence the heaviness? 225g of La Margarite Honey up next, after a rest!
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I would suggest re-reading the instruction sheet re: stove settings
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It does seem many over complicate this process.
Remember, people without computers were brewing coffee with vacpots before most of us were born.
And there is trepidation among some of us to reach the second crack early in our roasting adventure. It's a scary world. Face your fears. They will grow more JBM!
Tommy
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It does seem many over complicate this process.
Remember, people without computers were brewing coffee with vacpots before most of us were born.
And there is trepidation among some of us to reach the second crack early in our roasting adventure. It's a scary world. Face your fears. They will grow more JBM!
Tommy
my biggest problem with vac-pots, plants in pots, and a good rue (just to name a few) is patience (or my lack of it) I set the pot just over 50% power on my gas stove and wait for a lot of little bubbles in the bottom... then I put the top on and wait for th water to come up and start its little percolate... then its time for the coffee to go in... stove timer on 2 minutes... then pull it of the heat (my Tanzania cup of hope is pretty tasty this morning)
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Keeping in mind that I like a long... relaxed... morning...beforeIgotowork...
I fill my pot and put it on the stove at the low setting that I would brew at. In the meantime I eat. By the time I come back the water is just kind of bubbling, probably right at 195-200. When I attach the upper globe and temp it, it's right around 195. I then brew as B|J recommends. Dump the grounds in, dunk away, pull off heat at two minutes with a minute or so pull down.
The key for me has been to watch the temp before you put the upper globe on and definitely watch the stove setting. Experiment without coffee and take the temp.
I got a stall this morning. :-[
- -Barrett
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I boil the water in a kettle before I add it.
It is bubbling as soon as it is on the stove...
I'll hold back a bit and try a slower ramp of heat.
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I boil the water in a kettle before I add it.
It is bubbling as soon as it is on the stove...
I'll hold back a bit and try a slower ramp of heat.
Good plan man. If you load too much heat into the water it'll burn the coffee while it brews. And listen to the rod and the gurgling when the water or coffee is on top. The rod should not be dancing, and the coffee should be gently rolling like a light simmer.
Once you put the coffee in, set a timer for 2min. That's a good time to either just kill the heat or take the pot off the burner. I'll take mine off at 2min. and have a 1min.30sec. draw-down. Yumminess.
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Think I stewed the coffee.
I'm certain I did. The rod wasn't dancing, it was body popping!
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Think I stewed the coffee.
I'm certain I did. The rod wasn't dancing, it was body popping!
LOL... nice (lower dah heat or get a heavier Cory)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg3k2WGbjyI&feature=related[/youtube]
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Two more pots under my belt, both with VERY long draw down - 5+ min after removed from heat. Creates a bitter brew.
Only thing I observe that's different from what I read is that, while under heat I get some bubbling (not "dancing") in the top. Can't turn it down further as it is on my smallest (gas) burner at its lowest setting. Not sure what to try next.
Two variables from yesterday's success:
(1) gas vs electric (mine) but find that hard to believe would make that kind of difference
(2) your bean
We were working with a city plus/full city bean yesterday. The occasional stall that I get comes with an oily bean. Were you working with a Vienna or darker bean?
B|Java
After a week of quality time with my new Yama VacPot (I am unemployed and brewing 3 pots a day!), I concur that it was my roast. I took a serious look at my roasting technique and realized I was roasting everything to full city+ to vienna. So I spent some time roasting throughout the week, adjusting my roast to city+ and these beans, ground on the same setting of my Krupps that Dave & I used initially, ran through the VacPot with cory rod just fine.
The final note to add is that I am using the eight cup VacPot and draw down does take two to two and a half minutes. Do I understand correctly that the draw down time Dave achieves of one to one and a quarter minute is for the five cup?
Kudos to B|Yoda, I'm good to go!
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50 seconds to 80 seconds, varies by bean. These times hold true in both 5-cup and 8-cup.
B|Java
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Another one bites the dust....
I just ordered a replacement funnel for my 8 cup stove top. Made a pot of coffee this weekend and after brewing I placed the funnel into the lid/holder. When I went to wash the funnel I found that somehow the chain from the filter had wedged itself between the stem and holder. While very very gently trying to separate the two pieces, about 2" of the stem snapped off.
This is the last time I order a replacement part. If I break something else I'm trashing the Yamas and sticking with my SS brewers.
Rant over. Thanks for listening. :)
BTW,
Any way we could sticky this thread?
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Another one bites the dust....
I just ordered a replacement funnel for my 8 cup stove top. Made a pot of coffee this weekend and after brewing I placed the funnel into the lid/holder. When I went to wash the funnel I found that somehow the chain from the filter had wedged itself between the stem and holder. While very very gently trying to separate the two pieces, about 2" of the stem snapped off.
This is the last time I order a replacement part. If I break something else I'm trashing the Yamas and sticking with my SS brewers.
Rant over. Thanks for listening. :)
Another reason to like my vintage Silex vac pots. They're made of heavier Pyrex: I've got a dozen or so and have yet to break a pot; while I've bought two replacement pots for the Yama tabletop brewer.
BTW, Any way we could sticky this thread?
Seconded!
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I've been wanting to pic up a vintage glass/Pyrex vac pot. I've really been wanting one of the Cory rubberless models but they bring a war price on Ebay, most of the time around $100. The plain 'ol Cory and Silex vac pots are fairly inexpensive.
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Been trying to refine my routine with the Yama. Yesterday I got a 2.5 minute draw down with a 5 cup batch. It was the first complete draw down with the downward "woosh" and bubbling. All my 8 cup draw downs have been stalling out. Same coffee, same grind consistancy. Not sure why. I'm following the advice in this thread as closely as I can.
I used my gram scale to weigh 40 grams of coffee for 5 cups. Preheated water goes to the 5 cup line and pot goes on electric stove with difuser at 6.5/10. When I see a fair amount of steam rising I put the top on with the glass filter rod. A few seconds before the "woosh" I reduce to 2/10 while I grind the coffee; ground to a beech sand like consistancy on my Baratza Maestro. I "dunk" the grounds, not stir them, being careful not to make contact with the rod. After 60 seconds I remove the yama from the stove and place on the counter. 2.5 minutes later the drawn down is concluded.
I use the above procedure but dose at 70 grams of coffee. I've been stalling out at about 5.5-6 cups and the dip tube is totally full with no movement. The cup tastes fine, but a bit weak due to incomplete extraction.
I'm wondering if this is a dosing issue. I've dosed at 65 grams. Same deal. Then 60 grams. Same deal. I've even started adding the coffee more slowly to the upper globe to let the gentle bubbling action submerge the grounds with just a little "dunking" via paddle. No clanks are audible and no dancing of the rod visible. Any suggestions?
I've been wanting to pic up a vintage glass/Pyrex vac pot. I've really been wanting one of the Cory rubberless models but they bring a war price on Ebay, most of the time around $100.
I got lucky and scored an all glass cory model for around $50 shipped.
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I got lucky and scored an all glass cory model for around $50 shipped.
On ebay? I bet it was the one I forgot to bid on. I was sick because the rubberless models had been selling for around $80-100. The one that sells for a reasonable price I miss out on. :(
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All my 8 cup draw downs have been stalling out. Same coffee, same grind consistancy. Not sure why. I'm following the advice in this thread as closely as I can.
Preheated water goes to the 5 cup line and pot goes on electric stove with difuser at 6.5/10. When I see a fair amount of steam rising I put the top on with the glass filter rod. A few seconds before the "woosh" I reduce to 2/10 while I grind the coffee;
I use the above procedure but dose at 70 grams of coffee. I've been stalling out at about 5.5-6 cups and the dip tube is totally full with no movement. The cup tastes fine, but a bit weak due to incomplete extraction.
I'm wondering if this is a dosing issue. I've dosed at 65 grams. Same deal. Then 60 grams. Same deal. I've even started adding the coffee more slowly to the upper globe to let the gentle bubbling action submerge the grounds with just a little "dunking" via paddle. No clanks are audible and no dancing of the rod visible. Any suggestions?
Curious....try adding the top funnel sooner and not lowering the temperature at all.
If you ignore the advice of this group and follow the instructions that came with the product do you still get a stall?
Rich
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Curious....try adding the top funnel sooner and not lowering the temperature at all.
I'll try not lower the temperature and see what happens. Do you think lowering the temperature too much causes the vacuum to not build up to a sufficient strength?
If you ignore the advice of this group and follow the instructions that came with the product do you still get a stall?
Rich
LOL, come to think of it I have never read the instructions. I got some hands on with Rob's and advice from this thread. If all else fails I am going to read them and give that a shot! Thanks for the advice!
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On ebay? I bet it was the one I forgot to bid on. I was sick because the rubberless models had been selling for around $80-100. The one that sells for a reasonable price I miss out on. :(
Yes, from E-Bay. I got pretty luck with it. It had never been used and included everything but the original box and the globe stand. I've noticed the vacuum isn't as strong with the all glass model and I've never gotten a downward "woosh" with that model. It came with a glass filter rod. I'm guessing if I use the cloth filter that I got with the Yama it would work just fine.
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Yes, from E-Bay.....
If you ever want to get rid of it, let me know..... ;) ;D
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If you ignore the advice of this group and follow the instructions that came with the product do you still get a stall?
Rich
LOL, come to think of it I have never read the instructions. I got some hands on with Rob's and advice from this thread. If all else fails I am going to read them and give that a shot! Thanks for the advice!
that's exactly right... instructions are for lighting the fire... (when you give up and decide to burn the #%@$! thing)
60 seconds on the heat seems a little short to me... I started out with the directions and then modified from their... a little courser grind seems to stall the process??? and I don't logically know why... I just except that the last swallow is staying in the pot and then I don't get mud in the cup... I boil my water in the kettle pour it in the yama bottom on med heat the water gets up in the top (if it is kicking the glass rod too much I turn it down just a little) pour in the coffee.. sink but not stir... 2:30 minutes I turn off the heat and pull the pot to a cool burner... tahda!!!
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Been trying to refine my routine with the Yama. Yesterday I got a 2.5 minute draw down with a 5 cup batch...I grind the coffee; ground to a beech sand like consistancy on my Baratza Maestro. I "dunk" the grounds, not stir them...
... Any suggestions?
All your technique sounds spot-on. When guys ask me for suggestions on stalls, I first encourage them to narrow the problem. Start with the grinder. I am suspicious of the Maestro and the possibility of throwing 'fines.' Eliminate the grind as the issue.
Find a good local roaster in Wausau or a shop with a top end grinder. Buy a 1/2 lb of coffee and have them grind it a shade finer than pourover. Try the grind and see how your draft-down goes. Bet it self-resolves.
B|Java
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Executive Summary: I believe I'm on the right path. I have stopped lowering the heat so drastically due to my model of smooth top electric stove. I have also let the coffee bubble up top for 90-120 seconds and have been getting complete draw downs with a total coffee/water contact time of 4-7 minutes up top. The resulting cup has improved drastically.
All your technique sounds spot-on. When guys ask me for suggestions on stalls, I first encourage them to narrow the problem. Start with the grinder. I am suspicious of the Maestro and the possibility of throwing 'fines.' Eliminate the grind as the issue.
B|Java
Thanks for the reply Dave! I was also suspicious of the Maestro. It's certainly a mid grade conical burr grinder. Not suitable for espresso grinding but more targeted to french press/drip.
I used my Macap M4 for 3 or so batches; experimenting with a few different partical sizes from espresso to right below drip to see if it made a difference. I experienced the same issues of stalling out even with use of a good grinder.
Last night my luck turned for the better resulting in two perfect draw downs. The first was with the cloth filter in the 4 cup Cory with 32 grams of coffee. The second was with the glass rod in the Yama with 5 cups of water and 40 grams of coffee. The coffee was ground at the same partical size in the Meastro. This particular coffee was decaf roasted to Full City ++ several weeks ago. It was a long shot with this oily bean and a risk I thought would probably pose more problems with the vac pot brewing method. Still, the draw downs were complete and ideal.
I modified my procedure to let the coffee steep for 90-120 seconds and added it when 80% of the water had travelled to the upper globe. This resulted in vigurous draw downs with copious bubling and downward "woosh." The coffee lacked any hint of bitterness and was sugary sweet with great body and very little sediment. I was ecstatic! Truth be told, I preferred the cloth filtered coffee at a lower coffee/water ratio.
This morning, with the Yama filled to 8 cups of water with 64 grams of coffee I experienced a total draw down without lowering the heat significantly. I had started with the heat at 6.5/10 and lowered to 5/10 when 80% of the water was up north. Same grind level using the Maestro, different coffee, but one that was roasted to Full City++ and also with quite a bit of visible oil.
I'm guessing reducing the heat too drastically was compromising vacuum strength. Perhpas it was not strong enough to pull the liquid down through the coffee? I also think not letting the coffee brew long enough with heat applied. Maybe this was resulting in a excess build up of oils and grounds around the base of the filter rod prior to draw down/
This all is making sense. My stove is a newer electric smooth top model that cycles the heating element off when the set temperature is achieved. Perhaps lowering the heat to 2/10 was the culprit of my woes? The element would cycle off completely for an extended period of time when set to 2 or 3/10.
There have been immediate improvements NOT lowering the heat significantly and letting the grounds steep for a longer period of time in the upper globe. This has resulted in a total water/coffee contact time of 4.5-7 minutes. I can't see any dancing of the rod or hear clinking even at 5/10 on the stove.
I'm going to keep experimenting with this. IMHO I'm currently drinking some of the finest coffee I've brewed at home in quite a while. The resulting coffee is sugary, rich and complex with great body. No increase in sediment is visible at the bottom of the pot. Good stuff!
Thanks for the wealth of info in this thread! I feel practice and refining the procedure has me on the right track! The information in this thread has been a great baseline. Varying the procedure based upon my equipment has gotten me closer to coffee bliss!
I'm looking forward to brewing my recently roasted batches which have been specifically targeted towards use in the vac pots!
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Bingo! Good on you.
B|Java
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Hate to throw a ringer in the discussion but I have a Maestro and have no problems with stalls! Heat, stove top and experience seem to be the factors to me... I have even used a hand grinder with no problems. I don't rush the issue. I "think" some try to go to quick?? Jim
ps, I have a smooth top electric stove. No problem. I tried my aunts gas range for two days and couldn't dial it in.... smiles
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Hate to throw a ringer in the discussion but I have a Maestro and have no problems with stalls...
Not a ringer at all. Maestro just taught me a lesson. Adds to the collective knowledge. The grinder often is the guilty culprit, depending upon how many miles are on the burrs. Easiest to start there. Earlier technique looked good, to me. Leaving the heat up throws a whole new solution into the mix.
Where are my algorithms?
B|Java, madly adjusting
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My vacpot is my new staple brew method!
The Technivorm is used less, and only when I need a lot, quickly.
The coffee I get is clean, fresh tasting, and sharp.
As for stalls... none. And I can even stir like crazy! And I hit the rod...
(Rocky grinder, 40g, water added just off the boil. Lid on as it starts to edge to boiling. Add coffee when the rod stops bouncing and the heat is on lowest gas burner setting. About 3 mins on, then a 30 sec smooth pull down (guesstimate) every time.)
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Great results with the Kenyan this morning! Left the heat at 5/10 while adding the coffee slowly. Kenyan was roasted on Friday afternoon to Full City. Wow, I've never seen this much foaming and mound up on the vac pot. Should have taken a picture of it. I'm just going to call this the "g-mound" or G|Mound if I feel hip. I had to wait 20-30 seconds to add the last TBSP of coffee because I thought it was going to spill over!
I let the gentle bubbling action mix the coffee slowly. I even gave a bold circular stir towards the end to taunt the vac pot, ha ha ha. I felt like Moby Dick screaming at the whale, but not really. Took the pot off the stove. Drew down perfectly in about 2 or so minutes! This coffee is unreal! It's like I've never tasted Kenyan before. So delicate, sweet, creamy fruity with a caramel chocolate and balanced acidity on the finish. I thought for a long time that the french press was the ultimate; guess that just proves how little I know about this hobby of ours!
Thanks again you guys for being so helpful. Another reason why I love this place!
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...
I let the gentle bubbling action mix the coffee slowly. I even gave a bold circular stir towards the end to taunt the vac pot, ha ha ha. I felt like Moby Dick screaming at the whale, but not really...
You have me shuddering...
and then chuckling out loud.
Score.
B|Java
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I thought for a long time that the french press was the ultimate; guess that just proves how little I know about this hobby of ours!
Never let yourself think there is an ultimate brewing method. 8)
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Dave,
I just want you to know I think my vac pot is incredible. I have it down to a science now and point to it one second before the draw down. It amazes my wife and friends. The Cory is the only way to go. I really appreciate everything everyone does here in the club. Thanks.
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I thought for a long time that the french press was the ultimate; guess that just proves how little I know about this hobby of ours!
Never let yourself think there is an ultimate brewing method. 8)
Other than espresso! ;D
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Hmm ... I would like to suggest that you need to suit the bean to a brewing method. I have found that if a bean doesn't work well with espresso it will work good with a vacuum pot or pour over or even a french press. That is not to say that if it pulls well as espresso it won't be good for one of the other brewing methods.
I find the most flavorful extraction, albeit it takes a while, is from cold brewing method. Little to no caffeine and the true flavors stand out like no other.
My 2 cents.
:)
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Dave,
I just want you to know I think my vac pot is incredible. I have it down to a science now and point to it one second before the draw down. It amazes my wife and friends. The Cory is the only way to go. I really appreciate everything everyone does here in the club. Thanks.
Ah, yes, another vac-convert. Welcome to the fold.
B|Java
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Snagged a Canadian Cory Porcelain Fast-Flo off Canadian eBay (Toronto made). It is 2.25" wide (left) where the US Cory -- right -- (Chicago) is 2". Had never seen a Canadian one and it called to me, all the way from Boondoques, Quebec.
B|Java
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A club member who bought a rod is struggling with stalls and asked about the Ceramic Dutch Vaculator. I own one (off eBay) but haven't used it since my hands (XL glove) are too large to comfortably use to secure within the insides of a 5- and 8-cup Yama. As well, while the filter goes into the 8-cup, it does not stay lodged but rather pops back out.
This morning, for a test run, I gave it a try in the 5-cup (pics below). Using my standard technique of post-migration rise before adding coffee, the filter achieved water at a nice 196 and held it there. Differences?
1) The turbulence up top was much greater than with a Cory using the same heat settings.
2) The ounce of water in the base (typical with the design of the 5-cup) became light, light coffee so there is water slippage back into the base which in turn is steamed back up north.
3) There are some grinds that migrate south after the pot is pulled from the heat. About 1/2 teaspoon for this unit.
4) The down-draft is rapid -- 18 seconds, and whooosh, it is done.
Cup? Much lighter (an underdeveloped cup) than my standard cup with a Cory rod which will draft down in 50-80 seconds on the 5-cup. Were I to use this recurringly, I would hold on the heat longer (at lower temp) to compensate for the rate movement downward that clearly interfered with steep time needed.
Cleanup? Well, have to fish through the grounds to get my mitt around the top of the vaculator. Messy. I bet 10-1 the messiness led to its lack of traction in the face of the daunting Cory rod which prevailed over all other apps, bar none. Only the cursed percolator was able to dislodge the vacpot/glass rod. Harriett Nelson, June Cleaver, Sapphire Stevens, and Alice Kramden all succumbed to the ease of the newest gadget in the 50's.
B|Java
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Nice write-up, Young Dave.
I'd guess that maybe the Ceramic doohickey was used w/ a top globe that didn't have a straight down-tube that doesn't let the springy legs hold it in place, but rather something that swelled out. ? Also, I'm convinced that the rough texture molded into the Cory bulge is the reason it works so well, and the smooth Ceramic is why there was some sludge in the cup.
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Nice Good write-up, Young Dave.
I'd guess that maybe the Ceramic doohickey was used w/ a top globe that didn't have a straight down-tube that doesn't let the springy legs hold it in place, but rather something that swelled out. ? Also, I'm convinced that the rough texture molded into the Cory bulge is the reason it works so well, and the smooth Ceramic is why there was some sludge in the cup.
You are correct. It was primarily designed for the Hill Shaw line of Vaculator pots, though the ads said, "Fits most glass coffee makers..."
B|Java
(http://www.baharris.org/coffee/Collection/Vaculator_8-Cup.jpg)
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In solidarity with the putzes of the world who have broken their Yamas, I crunched both the 5- and 8-cuppers this week. Two years, not a ding. One week and they are both in the trash heat of the pots that go to heaven.
The 8-cupper died when I was multi-tasking. The heated water got away from me so I pulled it off the burner. Did a couple of other things, came back, slammed on the globe and Cory, and put it back on the heat. Turned around to do some food prep and I heard the "tink" and I knew immediately what had happened. The girl had rolled over the top, down the side, and seeped between the burner and the pot. Dust to dust, ashes to ashes.
The 5-cupper? I put all the blame on Czarina, though it was my own clumsiness. She had it airdrying in front of the clean, drying dish drainer. Once again, I was cooking and grabbed a skillet from the dish drain and immediately could see the descending Yama 5-cupper, in slow motion (right off Seinfeld) making its way to a greeting kitchen floor. I let a burst of expletives out at it, at the word in general, and sighed relief.
Thanks Amazon, for replacing me as Yama distributor. Order was on the front porch yesterday.
B|Java
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I feel your pain. In the words of Thomas Merton, it's better to have brewed and broke than to never have brewed at all.
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Gotta' hit Blue Bottle before I meet St. Peter. $20,000 vacpot set-up.
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/01/23/dining/20080123_COFFEE_SLIDESHOW_index.html
B|Java
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Syphon contest in Tokyo limits steep time to 1-minute. Hmmm....
http://www.jimseven.com/2009/11/07/one-title-doesnt-fit-all/#more-1190
B|2MinSteep
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I believe they use the 2 cup models for that contest. I steep for 1:35 in my 3 cup Hario Nouveau.
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I believe they use the 2 cup models for that contest. I steep for 1:35 in my 3 cup Hario Nouveau.
interesting... you steep less time with less water?? is the ratio of coffee to water the same??
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Yes
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I steep for 1:35 in my 3 cup Hario Nouveau.
Curious, is that 1:35 total time, or 1:35 before taking off the heat?
- -Barrett
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Executive Summary: I believe I'm on the right path. I have stopped lowering the heat so drastically due to my model of smooth top electric stove. I have also let the coffee bubble up top for 90-120 seconds and have been getting complete draw downs with a total coffee/water contact time of 4-7 minutes up top. The resulting cup has improved drastically.
All your technique sounds spot-on. When guys ask me for suggestions on stalls, I first encourage them to narrow the problem. Start with the grinder. I am suspicious of the Maestro and the possibility of throwing 'fines.' Eliminate the grind as the issue.
B|Java
Thanks for the reply Dave! I was also suspicious of the Maestro. It's certainly a mid grade conical burr grinder. Not suitable for espresso grinding but more targeted to french press/drip.
I used my Macap M4 for 3 or so batches; experimenting with a few different partical sizes from espresso to right below drip to see if it made a difference. I experienced the same issues of stalling out even with use of a good grinder.
Last night my luck turned for the better resulting in two perfect draw downs. The first was with the cloth filter in the 4 cup Cory with 32 grams of coffee. The second was with the glass rod in the Yama with 5 cups of water and 40 grams of coffee. The coffee was ground at the same partical size in the Meastro. This particular coffee was decaf roasted to Full City ++ several weeks ago. It was a long shot with this oily bean and a risk I thought would probably pose more problems with the vac pot brewing method. Still, the draw downs were complete and ideal.
I modified my procedure to let the coffee steep for 90-120 seconds and added it when 80% of the water had travelled to the upper globe. This resulted in vigurous draw downs with copious bubling and downward "woosh." The coffee lacked any hint of bitterness and was sugary sweet with great body and very little sediment. I was ecstatic! Truth be told, I preferred the cloth filtered coffee at a lower coffee/water ratio.
This morning, with the Yama filled to 8 cups of water with 64 grams of coffee I experienced a total draw down without lowering the heat significantly. I had started with the heat at 6.5/10 and lowered to 5/10 when 80% of the water was up north. Same grind level using the Maestro, different coffee, but one that was roasted to Full City++ and also with quite a bit of visible oil.
I'm guessing reducing the heat too drastically was compromising vacuum strength. Perhpas it was not strong enough to pull the liquid down through the coffee? I also think not letting the coffee brew long enough with heat applied. Maybe this was resulting in a excess build up of oils and grounds around the base of the filter rod prior to draw down/
This all is making sense. My stove is a newer electric smooth top model that cycles the heating element off when the set temperature is achieved. Perhaps lowering the heat to 2/10 was the culprit of my woes? The element would cycle off completely for an extended period of time when set to 2 or 3/10.
There have been immediate improvements NOT lowering the heat significantly and letting the grounds steep for a longer period of time in the upper globe. This has resulted in a total water/coffee contact time of 4.5-7 minutes. I can't see any dancing of the rod or hear clinking even at 5/10 on the stove.
I'm going to keep experimenting with this. IMHO I'm currently drinking some of the finest coffee I've brewed at home in quite a while. The resulting coffee is sugary, rich and complex with great body. No increase in sediment is visible at the bottom of the pot. Good stuff!
Thanks for the wealth of info in this thread! I feel practice and refining the procedure has me on the right track! The information in this thread has been a great baseline. Varying the procedure based upon my equipment has gotten me closer to coffee bliss!
I'm looking forward to brewing my recently roasted batches which have been specifically targeted towards use in the vac pots!
I wanted to weight in on the effect that filters have on the performance of Yamas. I have been using Yama vac pots as my primarily brewer for about 10 years now. In my obsessive/compulsive search for the perfect filter in my Yamas, I reckon I have tried to buy or 'jury-rig' every vac filter known to man. The partial list includes:
>Yama with cloth filter
>Yama with custom-made 30micron nylon filter
>Yama with new cloth screw-down filter
>Cory glass rods,
>Nicro metal filter
>Starbucks Utopia nylon filter
>Bosum Santos plastic filter
>Hario metal/ paper combo filter
>Coffeemaster metal filter
> Yama screw-down/ Astoria espresso screen hybrid filter
As I was reading through the previous post, I noticed that you are using a Cory glass filter. Here has been my experience with Cory glass filters:
They make a great cup of coffee with no after taste BUT, whether they stall out or not is dependent on whether the tiny pores on the surface of the filter get clogged or not. If the pores clog, the filter stalls! What causes a Cory to stall? Well, my experience (plus a considerable amount of searching on the internet) has been that a Cory stall is mainly due to the amount of chaff that is mixed in with your coffee. Yes, grind inconsistency does have some part to play, but the major culprit is tiny chaff particles getting caught in the pores of the filter and clogging it. That's why professionally roasted beans always seem to do better with a Cory filter. Most professional roasters have roasters that do a very good job of removing chaff from the coffee they roast. So when you use a professionally roasted coffee with a Cory filter, there is a better chance of it whoosing through without stalls.
Finally, to change the subject and wrap up this long-winded post, what is the best filter set-up for a Yama? In my opinion, it is a Nicro filter. No after taste, very consistent pull-down time, easy clean up, and you can't break em. The only downside is that they are not easy to get and, like the Cory glass filter, they will stall if there is too much chaff in your grounds.
cheers
DG
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PS: I also noticed that you were having better luck with Full City++ roasted beans. I am not an expert in roasting, but I have always found that the longer you roast a bean, the less chaff that will remain on the bean. Most likely, the reason your Full City++ beans worked with the Cory filter is because most of the chaff had been roasted off the beans and wasn't present to clog up the glass pores on the Cory filter.
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DG said:
I wanted to weight in on the effect that filters have on the performance of Yamas. I have been using Yama vac pots as my primarily brewer for about 10 years now. In my obsessive/compulsive search for the perfect filter in my Yamas, I reckon I have tried to buy or 'jury-rig' every vac filter known to man. The partial list includes:
>Yama with cloth filter
>Yama with custom-made 30micron nylon filter
>Yama with new cloth screw-down filter
>Cory glass rods,
>Nicro metal filter
>Starbucks Utopia nylon filter
>Bosum Santos plastic filter
>Hario metal/ paper combo filter
>Coffeemaster metal filter
> Yama screw-down/ Astoria espresso screen hybrid filter
We have one serious Vacpotter aboard. Welcome to the thread; thanks for your expertise and willingness to share.
B|Java
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Yama 5-cup on its way, also getting a Cory glass filter from B|Java, and I am a little concerned 'cause I do have a bit of chaff in my grind. (Sounds like a Monday, doesn't it? "How ya doin' Joe?" "Eh, I got a bit of chaff in my grind."
I have read a lot of this thread, and I am planning on doing several "water only" runs in it to make sure I get the hang of that. Reading B|Java's virgin brew in his Yama from '08 ("whoooosh!") had me LOL. ;D
Anyhow, is there anyway to remove more chaff from roasted-rested beans before grinding that might make this problem less of a problem? I have one of those rubber tubes that gets the skin off garlic (mmmm.... a little garlic in your coffee?) but that seams tedious.
Just wondering.
Jim
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Yama 5-cup on its way, also getting a Cory glass filter from B|Java, and I am a little concerned 'cause I do have a bit of chaff in my grind. (Sounds like a Monday, doesn't it? "How ya doin' Joe?" "Eh, I got a bit of chaff in my grind."
I have read a lot of this thread, and I am planning on doing several "water only" runs in it to make sure I get the hang of that. Reading B|Java's virgin brew in his Yama from '08 ("whoooosh!") had me LOL. ;D
Anyhow, is there anyway to remove more chaff from roasted-rested beans before grinding that might make this problem less of a problem? I have one of those rubber tubes that gets the skin off garlic (mmmm.... a little garlic in your coffee?) but that seams tedious.
Just wondering.
I would have to defer to the greater knowledge of the GCBC 'collective' on this, but one thing I have found helpful was to pour the newly roasted coffee beans back and forth between two containers, while outside. If there is any breeze blowing, it will blow the chaff off the beans as you pour them. You can also rig up a chaff removal system which basically involves a fan blowing through a colander while you stir your newly roasted beans. There actually are a few photos and descriptions of versions of this a few pages back in this 'Vacpots, Q's and A's' thread.
DG
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Yama 5-cup on its way, also getting a Cory glass filter from B|Java, and I am a little concerned 'cause I do have a bit of chaff in my grind. (Sounds like a Monday, doesn't it? "How ya doin' Joe?" "Eh, I got a bit of chaff in my grind."
I have read a lot of this thread, and I am planning on doing several "water only" runs in it to make sure I get the hang of that. Reading B|Java's virgin brew in his Yama from '08 ("whoooosh!") had me LOL. ;D
Anyhow, is there anyway to remove more chaff from roasted-rested beans before grinding that might make this problem less of a problem? I have one of those rubber tubes that gets the skin off garlic (mmmm.... a little garlic in your coffee?) but that seams tedious.
Just wondering.
I would have to defer to the greater knowledge of the GCBC 'collective' on this, but one thing I have found helpful was to pour the newly roasted coffee beans back and forth between two containers, while outside. If there is any breeze blowing, it will blow the chaff off the beans as you pour them. You can also rig up a chaff removal system which basically involves a fan blowing through a colander while you stir your newly roasted beans. There actually are a few photos and descriptions of versions of this a few pages back in this 'Vacpots, Q's and A's' thread.
DG
To parrot that method, that's exactly what i do fresh out of the whirley pop. Dump to steel mesh colander, turn on the little fan i have, then pour in front of the fan between steel mixing bowl and colander. Chaff flies away and after a few minutes, beans are cool and nearly chaff-free.
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I just recently picked up an old cory on E bay. the pot looks like a 5 or 6 cupper. it came with an extra top piece which looks larger, like maybe an 8 cupper though i don't see how it will fit all in the bottom.
They have the markings on them
Cory DNU, DNL and the bigger one DCU.... they also came with a glass rod.
Will your filters work on this?
If so then all I need to do is figure out how to work this thing and im in business.... maybe.
Aaron
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If so then all I need to do is figure out how to work this thing and im in business.... maybe.
Aaron
Aaron, I moved the post over here as others are more familiar with Corys than I am. The DNU (upper) and the DNL (lower) will go together. I have no idea about the larger dome to which you refer. Maybe other will jump in and speak to it.
Filters? You have the Cory rod which will work. You are set to go, as is, without any cloth filters. Read through these posts and learn to use the vacpot. If you want a quick down and dirty, here is the Yama review I put on CG - it will apply. http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/vacpots/yamavacpots/BoldJava/5238 (http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/vacpots/yamavacpots/BoldJava/5238) There is a ton of good material in this 23-page thread, so read away.
As to cloth filters, that is all I have. I do not stock the metal stopper to which they attach. You would need to order that from somewhere. Once again, if you have the rod, you are good to go and don't need the cloth filters. Some prefer cloth and that is why I stock them. The cloth filters creates a really, really, sqweeky clean cup. Also, if you roast consistently to FC+ or Vienna roast levels, you will struggle with stalls with a glass rod and then the cloth filters are a better approach as they don't stall.
B|Java
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Field Trip: Hario USA - Edwin Demos a Halogen Bar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jktRuWYzaI#ws)
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I just recently picked up an old cory on E bay. the pot looks like a 5 or 6 cupper. it came with an extra top piece which looks larger, like maybe an 8 cupper though i don't see how it will fit all in the bottom.
They have the markings on them
Cory DNU, DNL and the bigger one DCU.... they also came with a glass rod.
Will your filters work on this?
If so then all I need to do is figure out how to work this thing and im in business.... maybe.
Aaron
I went to look at the letters on my cory... and the Yama yelled at me?!?! said I had neglected it too long... (waters heating as I type)
my gasket-less Cory (ground glass on the upper and lower is the seal) is DIU and DIL I see a few references on fleabay and craigslist that the DCU is a gasket-less top... if it has a flat ground glass ring where the neck would meet the base than they may be correct... may not work with the rest of your rig but you may find a bottom to match it to... I like the gasket-less.. but tey are few and far between...
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I just recently picked up an old cory on E bay. the pot looks like a 5 or 6 cupper. it came with an extra top piece which looks larger, like maybe an 8 cupper though i don't see how it will fit all in the bottom.
They have the markings on them
Cory DNU, DNL and the bigger one DCU.... they also came with a glass rod.
Will your filters work on this?
If so then all I need to do is figure out how to work this thing and im in business.... maybe.
Aaron
The DNU/DNL is a "rubberless" setup. That means it's a glass on glass seal. I actually have 2 of these combos. The were made during WWII. Cory made the rubberless model because most of the rubber supply was being direct toward the war effort.
The rubberless Cory's can be fickle when it comes to making the seal. I have heard that some won't make a seal at all. The seam where the top funnel meets the lip of the bottom pot has to be dry. I usually do a test run without coffee to make sure the seal is good. I also like to use either the Silex lock in glass rods or the Vaculator porcelain filter simply because they don't have the bounce you can sometimes get from a Cory glass filter rod.
I'v never seen a DCU/DCL combo. From what you say they sound like 2 different sizes of the rubberless model. They may not be compatible with the DNL.
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found this list at http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/Topic15368.htm (http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/Topic15368.htm) don't know how accurate it is
From: Kevin Dalley
I have a metal electric Cory vacuum pot. When it reaches an
appropriate temperature, the electricity cuts off and the water
returns to the lower unit. Unfortunately, if you leave the pot alone,
the heat will turn on again. The glass Cory filter works fine with it.
Each size and model of Cory has different letters on it. Here's my list:
DYU/DYL is 4-6 cup gasket
DRU/DRL is 7-8 cup gasket
DXU/DXL is 10-12 cup gasket
DIU/DIL is 12 cup gasketless
DCU/DCL is 8 cup gasketless
DNU/DNL is 4 cup gasketless (perhaps also known as DNG)
DLU/DLL rubber ?
DTU/DTL narrow neck
DAU/DAL narrow neck
DHU/DHL narrow neck
DPU/DPL narrow neck
DGU/DGL narrow neck
DBU/DBL narrow neck
ACB-3 is stainless steel CORY,
ACU/ACL is metal electric pot
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Wow head change, that is some fancy equip! ;D I use a lowly spirit stove for my yama and nicro (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41lxehNcTdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) and I am jealous!
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35g for a 3 cup vacuum pot. WAY overdosed.
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Got the alert from Kuban111 and CFS on a new metal filter for vacpots from Caffepronto. I have an email into them:
http://shadowboxer.posterous.com/caffe-probto-vac-pot-metal-filter (http://shadowboxer.posterous.com/caffe-probto-vac-pot-metal-filter)
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Got the alert from Kuban111 and CFS on a new metal filter for vacpots from Caffepronto. I have an email into them:
[url]http://shadowboxer.posterous.com/caffe-probto-vac-pot-metal-filter[/url] ([url]http://shadowboxer.posterous.com/caffe-probto-vac-pot-metal-filter[/url])
Confucius say; those who cannot grind for the rod will clean the screen.
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New filter time. Kuban 111 and Chad put me on to a new filter. Comes from Caffee Pronto and is a Yama filter, with an Astoria dispersion screen in it. Kuban swears by it. I have one "in the mail." I will give it a couple of runs around the block and report back.
Here is the link in case you are anxious to try one on your own. http://www.caffepronto.com/store/product_detail.php?c=&s=45-YscreenCP (http://www.caffepronto.com/store/product_detail.php?c=&s=45-YscreenCP)
B|Java
(http://api.ning.com/files/3ih0W8bA4RalrsWf1qEXZ3nI-3CAdFmgSf3pArmNW-6BnLj9vhGtXwA9Zx51UN6QsCRKLT3EFyc*rP01PvRjp2L-gEuAVG69/siphonfilterpices.JPG)
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I anxiously await your report.
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I actually DIYed a new filter a couple of weeks ago for my Yama. From McMaster, I purchased a sheet of 10 micron stainless steel mesh (92715T31).
The main problem I had was bending the material around the Yama filter "frame" in such a way that didn't leave huge gaps where the mesh folded. I never solved that issue per-se, but with some 5 micron polyester filter material I had also ordered (6376T11, the more the merrier, right?) I cut out a doughnut shaped piece the same diameter as the filter, and it serves as a gasket.
It's a very crude in design, but I really like how it performs. and I haven't used the glass rod since.
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:icon_sunny: Aloha from Hawaii, y'all - been mostly lurking and learning here - decided to throw my two cents in. I've read many of the pages in this thread but not all, so if I repeat info, forgive me. I got laid off a few months ago, giving me lots of time and opportunity to get as obsessive and crazy about this coffee thing as many of you are (no offense intended). I've bought waaay too much stuff off of eBay (going to have to start getting rid of some of it as soon as I decide what I like the best). I've got 2 Sunbeam C30s, a C50 on the way and a metal Cory. I've got a beautiful red narrow-neck Silex setup complete with stove, an older narrow-neck Silex with beautiful sculpted metal handle, a pristine never-used in the box white Silex wide-neck with stove and AnyHeet control (so nice I'm afraid to use it) and a FrankenVac of two globes that don't quite fit together (eBay burn). Also a Chinese knock-off of the Gold Royal Balance Brewer (half-size scale - 500ml - but really quite nicely made and works well); only $100. And a locally obtained Taiwanese copy of a Hara 5 cup that came with a butane burner - it is the bomb and my favorite brewer right now - among the vacs, that is - the espresso stuff is for another thread. Yes, I went over the edge. Yes, I need to divest.
Now that I've depressed myself by reminding me how much money I've blown on redundant coffee paraphernalia, I'll try to add a little to the conversation here - probably end up being redundant also. I've used a few types of glass rods, a metal filter, a cloth filter and a ceramic filter (the round flat type with the dangling spring catch). I've had incredible success using the last type, the ceramic, without a cloth cover. I grind using a Maestro so I don't have to adjust my espresso grinder. I roast my own coffee and some of the roasts do have more left over chaff than others. My brews never stall, no matter how fine I grind, and the coffee is really smooth, clear and clean with almost no fines, sometimes none at all. It works with all of the above brewers equally well. It's so fool-proof (I'm evidence) that I don't even consider or experiment with the other filters anymore.
Is this anyone else's experience? Am I missing anything here?
Thanks for indulging my sharing....
P.S. What does the check-box "Return to this topic" under the message box mean? I check it but I don't know what it does.
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:icon_sunny: Aloha from Hawaii, y'all -
...a ceramic filter (the round flat type with the dangling spring catch). I've had incredible success using the last type, the ceramic, without a cloth cover. I grind using a Maestro so I don't have to adjust my espresso grinder... My brews never stall, no matter how fine I grind, and the coffee is really smooth, clear and clean with almost no fines, sometimes none at all. It works with all of the above brewers equally well. It's so fool-proof (I'm evidence) that I don't even consider or experiment with the other filters anymore...
Welcome to the thread, friend. A vacpotter is always welcome here!
RE: Ceramic without cloth, I am struggling to believe we are talking the same filter. You describe the Silex D-3 (look on the bottom; hard to read). It has 4 holes at 7/16" and 4 holes at 1/4." I have that one and it remains a virgin. Snagged it off eBay a year ago and can't bring myself into bathing it in the brown bean (have the same problem with a Cory retro plastic domed unit and a Polan that is new in the box).
You using it without cloth? Are we talking the same ceramic filter? How can the vacuum be created with those existing holes? We must be talking different filters.
How long is your draw-down time once you remove it from the heat?
B|Java
(http://coffeegeek.com/images/39072/200x200/ceramic_filtersm.jpg)
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:icon_sunny: Aloha from Hawaii, y'all -
...a ceramic filter (the round flat type with the dangling spring catch). I've had incredible success using the last type, the ceramic, without a cloth cover. I grind using a Maestro so I don't have to adjust my espresso grinder... My brews never stall, no matter how fine I grind, and the coffee is really smooth, clear and clean with almost no fines, sometimes none at all. It works with all of the above brewers equally well. It's so fool-proof (I'm evidence) that I don't even consider or experiment with the other filters anymore...
Welcome to the thread, friend. A vacpotter is always welcome here!
RE: Ceramic without cloth, I am struggling to believe we are talking the same filter. You describe the Silex D-3 (look on the bottom; hard to read). It has 4 holes at 7/16" and 4 holes at 1/4." I have that one and it remains a virgin. Snagged it off eBay a year ago and can't bring myself into bathing it in the brown bean (have the same problem with a Cory retro plastic domed unit and a Polan that is new in the box).
You using it without cloth? Are we talking the same ceramic filter? How can the vacuum be created with those existing holes? We must be talking different filters.
How long is your draw-down time once you remove it from the heat?
B|Java
([url]http://coffeegeek.com/images/39072/200x200/ceramic_filtersm.jpg[/url])
One of the Dutch filters maybe?
(http://www.baharris.org/coffee/Collection/Vaculator_8-Cup.jpg)
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:icon_sunny: Aloha from Hawaii, y'all - been mostly lurking and learning here - decided to throw my two cents in. I've read many of the pages in this thread but not all, so if I repeat info, forgive me. I got laid off a few months ago, giving me lots of time and opportunity to get as obsessive and crazy about this coffee thing as many of you are (no offense intended). I've bought waaay too much stuff off of eBay (going to have to start getting rid of some of it as soon as I decide what I like the best). I've got 2 Sunbeam C30s, a C50 on the way and a metal Cory. I've got a beautiful red narrow-neck Silex setup complete with stove, an older narrow-neck Silex with beautiful sculpted metal handle, a pristine never-used in the box white Silex wide-neck with stove and AnyHeet control (so nice I'm afraid to use it) and a FrankenVac of two globes that don't quite fit together (eBay burn). Also a Chinese knock-off of the Gold Royal Balance Brewer (half-size scale - 500ml - but really quite nicely made and works well); only $100. And a locally obtained Taiwanese copy of a Hara 5 cup that came with a butane burner - it is the bomb and my favorite brewer right now - among the vacs, that is - the espresso stuff is for another thread. Yes, I went over the edge. Yes, I need to divest.
Now that I've depressed myself by reminding me how much money I've blown on redundant coffee paraphernalia, I'll try to add a little to the conversation here - probably end up being redundant also. I've used a few types of glass rods, a metal filter, a cloth filter and a ceramic filter (the round flat type with the dangling spring catch). I've had incredible success using the last type, the ceramic, without a cloth cover. I grind using a Maestro so I don't have to adjust my espresso grinder. I roast my own coffee and some of the roasts do have more left over chaff than others. My brews never stall, no matter how fine I grind, and the coffee is really smooth, clear and clean with almost no fines, sometimes none at all. It works with all of the above brewers equally well. It's so fool-proof (I'm evidence) that I don't even consider or experiment with the other filters anymore.
Is this anyone else's experience? Am I missing anything here?
Thanks for indulging my sharing....
P.S. What does the check-box "Return to this topic" under the message box mean? I check it but I don't know what it does.
Have you noticed any sudden urges to give all your money to John F? It's a very subtle motivational tool he developed. >:D
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The Dutch Vaculator ceramic filter is my mostest favoritest vac pot filter. There are actaully 2 styles of Dutch Vaculator filters, a 2 piece and a 1 piece.
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The Dutch Vaculator ceramic filter is my mostest favoritest vac pot filter. There are actaully 2 styles of Dutch Vaculator filters, a 2 piece and a 1 piece.
I like my Vaculator filter, but I'm looking for one of the cylindrical Corry ceramic filters.
Orphan Espresso has a few filter types to choose from. (http://www.orphanespresso.com/Vintage-NOS-Cory-Glass-Filter-Rod-for-Vacuum-Pot_p_2455.html)
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I've used a few types of glass rods, a metal filter, a cloth filter and a ceramic filter (the round flat type with the dangling spring catch)
The original poster is not describing a vaculator.
B|Java
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I've used a few types of glass rods, a metal filter, a cloth filter and a ceramic filter (the round flat type with the dangling spring catch)
The original poster is not describing a vaculator.
B|Java
I missed that statement. Now I'm curious also ???
While we are on the subject of filters, this is my second favorite although it's rarely used because it was sooo expensive:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/coffee%20related/n_a-5.jpg)
I recently picked up one of these to use with my Kent vac pot. The Kent makes a terrific cup of coffee, and when using the filter pictured below, a really clean cup:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/coffee%20related/Kentfilter-1.png)
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I've used a few types of glass rods, a metal filter, a cloth filter and a ceramic filter (the round flat type with the dangling spring catch)
The original poster is not describing a vaculator.
B|Java
I missed that statement. Now I'm curious also ???
While we are on the subject of filters, this is my second favorite although it's rarely used because it was sooo expensive:
I recently picked up one of these to use with my Kent vac pot. The Kent makes a terrific cup of coffee, and when using the filter pictured below, a really clean cup:
My Gawd man, put those away! :o This is a family forum.
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Very, very nice schtuff (quality toys), Jason.
B|Java
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:icon_sunny: Aloha - I'll try this again - I had a lengthy post then hit some wrong key and it vanished into the InterTubes...
I didn't realize there were so many strange and wonderful types of filters - that Cona one is really cool looking. The ceramic filter I have is a Silex D-119 (hard to read) which is like the one you pictured but no holes at all except the central one for the spring. It has small serrations in the ceramic around the bottom edge which is where the coffee filters through and it really does seem un-stallable as well as reliable, easy to clean and gives a very clean cup. Maybe I lucked out and got a good one - it came in one of my eBay Silex's. I'll try to get a picture on here for you if I can figure out how - never done it before.
As to the draw-down, it is prompt, strong and complete but I've never timed it - I'll time my next brew. I'm not into the micro-control you guys are yet - I'm still learning how to roast and I can't yet distinguish all the subtle flavors you describe in the cuppings. I did however have an "A-ha" moment with my first brew out of my ersatz Hara - I actually tasted what "brightness" or "acidity" was for the first time thanks to a good description of it by one of the gurus I read here who said it was like a "sensation all over your mouth" - I had never experienced or at least not noticed it before. I like medium roasts and deeper bottom-end coffees like Sumatran (chocolatey?) but am now trying to learn the other flavor components.
P.S. Now I now why I called my lawyer and put John F in my will...
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:icon_sunny: @Tex - my thoughts, too, when I saw them but I didn't have the nerve to say it - come to think of it, even "Vaculator" sounds kind of suspect...
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:icon_sunny: Aloha - I'll try this again - I had a lengthy post then hit some wrong key and it vanished into the InterTubes...
I didn't realize there were so many strange and wonderful types of filters - that Cona one is really cool looking. The ceramic filter I have is a Silex D-119 (hard to read) which is like the one you pictured but no holes at all except the central one for the spring. It has small serrations in the ceramic around the bottom edge which is where the coffee filters through and it really does seem un-stallable as well as reliable, easy to clean and gives a very clean cup. Maybe I lucked out and got a good one - it came in one of my eBay Silex's. I'll try to get a picture on here for you if I can figure out how - never done it before.
As to the draw-down, it is prompt, strong and complete but I've never timed it - I'll time my next brew. I'm not into the micro-control you guys are yet - I'm still learning how to roast and I can't yet distinguish all the subtle flavors you describe in the cuppings. I did however have an "A-ha" moment with my first brew out of my ersatz Hara - I actually tasted what "brightness" or "acidity" was for the first time thanks to a good description of it by one of the gurus I read here who said it was like a "sensation all over your mouth" - I had never experienced or at least not noticed it before. I like medium roasts and deeper bottom-end coffees like Sumatran (chocolatey?) but am now trying to learn the other flavor components.
P.S. Now I now why I called my lawyer and put John F in my will...
Yeah, but the only thing I felt like leaving him was the pair of undies I wore on my last fishing trip. Seems kinda suspicious that he'd plant that subliminal thought in my mind. ::)
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New filter time. Kuban 111 and Chad put me on to a new filter. Comes from Caffee Pronto and is a Yama filter, with an Astoria dispersion screen in it. Kuban swears by it. I have one "in the mail." I will give it a couple of runs around the block and report back...
This hit the porch last evening. I will give it a 'kick the tires' this weekend with Milo and Chad. Note: I tried for fits: chain is sufficiently long to use in both the 5- and 8-cup Yamas.
B|Java
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I am looking forward to hearing how this works out for you. I recently bought an Astoria dispersion screen and teamed it up with a Yama screw-down filter. I couldn't get it quite right and, as a result, there was a fair amount of 'mud' in the coffee.
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I have a question for you Vacpot gurus. Maybe it's been addressed before, but I couldn't find it. I see a lot of stainless steel vac pots. The biggest thing holding me back from going down the vacpot rabbit hole is my fear of breaking the seemingly delicate glass ones. Do you think that the same taste can/would be had on a regular basis from the stainless ones? I know that you lose the visual appeal, but is the taste affected also?
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I have a question for you Vacpot gurus. Maybe it's been addressed before, but I couldn't find it. I see a lot of stainless steel vac pots. The biggest thing holding me back from going down the vacpot rabbit hole is my fear of breaking the seemingly delicate glass ones. Do you think that the same taste can/would be had on a regular basis from the stainless ones? I know that you lose the visual appeal, but is the taste affected also?
No real difference in taste IMHO. The only real difference between the glass and the SS is that the SS greatly benefit from a bit of preheating. Just let the water travel into the top and then go back down once before adding coffee.
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I have a question for you Vacpot gurus. Maybe it's been addressed before, but I couldn't find it. I see a lot of stainless steel vac pots. The biggest thing holding me back from going down the vacpot rabbit hole is my fear of breaking the seemingly delicate glass ones. Do you think that the same taste can/would be had on a regular basis from the stainless ones? I know that you lose the visual appeal, but is the taste affected also?
No real difference in taste IMHO. The only real difference between the glass and the SS is that the SS greatly benefit from a bit of preheating. Just let the water travel into the top and then go back down once before adding coffee.
Or, just leave the water up north a tad longer before adding the coffee.
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It was time to add a Nicro stainless steel filter to the arsenal. New, old stock. Never used. Notice the $1.00 price written on the top of the box.
B|Java
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Welcome to the Nicro filter club! I am a big fan of them. They work really well with the Yama 8 cupper that I have. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on how it compares to the other filters you have.
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Cloth filters are a little more forgiving than glass filters when it comes to grind quality. A glass filter will 'bounce' if the water is too hot which means that you have too much heat, and you need to control that, otherwise, you will experience a stall and a bunch of fines in the end cup.
Gary
Gary, with my Yama 8cup, I use the Silex "Lox-in" glass filter, with the chain and hook. The hook easily attaches to the side of the tube extension.
I have been using a vac pot (several,actually) for about 10 years.
My method is slightly different, not necessarily better :>D
First, I preheat a bit of water in the micro for about 30 seconds, just to warm it up. Then I gently pout it into the bottom of the Yama, to pre heat it, so as not to crack the glass when I....
Pour in preheated water from my electric kettle (at a measured 190f.), turn on the heat to just below medium, and attach the upper globe, with glass filter.
I grind the coffee while the water is rising. When nearly all is up, I evenly pout in the grind, as the explosion up occurs. This roiling water really helps to agitate the grind, so no, or little stirring is needed. Any grind on the glass upper, i gently push towards the center with a chopstick.
I then lower the heat to as low as I can, but not so low that I see coffee colored water in the bottom. (the only weakness of the Yama is that it retains maybe an oz more water than does my vintage Silex.)
No matter, as I add a few more grams of grind "for the pot" as they say.
3.5 minutes later, I remove the Yama from the gas burner, and place on top of the cook top vent, and turn the vent to high, helping to facilitate the trip north, which adds the extra 30-45 seconds of brew/contact time. YMMV on the exact brew time.
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Or, just leave the water up north a tad longer before adding the coffee.
With the stainless steel pot I had, I couldn't get the coffee to temp (197 for me) ever. It would get to about 183-184 and just sit there. It didn't matter how long I waited. Jason's fix, pre-heating, or running it north more than once would be the workarounds. I don't preheat so I let the Nicro SS go. To whom? Why Jason, of course, with full disclosure <grins>.
B|Java
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Welcome to the Nicro filter club! I am a big fan of them. They work really well with the Yama 8 cupper that I have. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on how it compares to the other filters you have.
And once again, I will probably struggle with the proverbial dilemma -- will the virgin toy ever meet the brown water?
B|Java
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No matter, as I add a few more grams of grind "for the pot" as they say.
3.5 minutes later, I remove the Yama from the gas burner, and place on top of the cook top vent, and turn the vent to high, helping to facilitate the trip north, which adds the extra 30-45 seconds of brew/contact time. YMMV on the exact brew time.
Hmmm.... after my grounds go in (after all the water is up top) I start my timer for 2min., after which is goes off the burner and the southward trip takes another 30-45sec. like yours.
Also, I don't see the need for all the pre-heat futzing, both of the Yama's bottom or the water in the kettle. Why not simply put the desired amount of water in the bottom and heat it on the stove?
:angel:
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Those stainless filters work just fine if you grind coarse enough. Let your coffee be your filter!
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It was time to add a Nicro stainless steel filter to the arsenal. New, old stock. Never used. Notice the $1.00 price written on the top of the box.
B|Java
You are really milking those kow kups, and that's udderly unnecessary B|Cheeselander..... I vote you moooov them out of the way.
(http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4246.0;attach=7373;image)
(http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4246.0;attach=7374;image)
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Those stainless filters work just fine if you grind coarse enough. Let your coffee be your filter!
OK, the SS Nicro is going to get a bath, very soon. Will try moving the grind up with it.
You are really milking those kow kups, and that's udderly unnecessary B|Cheeselander..... I vote you moooov them out of the way...
I thought after 4 days in sunny Wisconsin you would be a bit more of an ambassador for our corner of heaven. Give the cows the hook? You crazy? They are the essence of our being in Lake Cheddar.
B|Bucolic
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I have been using a Nicro SS filter with my 8 cup Yama for a couple for years. The procedure I use is pretty simple...
1) First (and most importantly), make sure your ground coffee has as little chaff in it as possible (too much chaff left in the ground coffee will plug the filter)
2) Heat up your water in the bottom pot and bring it to a rolling boil
3) Turn down your heat so that the water in the bottom pot is barely boiling
4) Put the siphon down into the bottom pot
5) Allow water to travel north
6) Add ground coffee slowly to the water
7) While avoiding stirring the coffee too much, get all your grounds soaked in the hot water (this usually takes me 45-60 seconds)
8) Because the Nicro 'down time'/ filtering is faster than when you use a Yama cloth filter, let the coffee water mixture stay north for 3 minutes, rather than the traditional 2 minute that you would use with a cloth filter.
9) It should take the Nicro only 1 minute to bring the coffee back down 'south'. If it takes longer than 1 minute, it is probably because there is too much chaff in the grounds you are using.
10) The 3 minutes up north, plus the 1 minute needed to filter and bring the coffee back down south to the bottom pot, will provide you with the exact 4 minutes of brewing time that is generally considered optimal for the Yama.
hope this helps
dg
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I have been using a Nicro SS filter with my 8 cup Yama for a couple for years. The procedure I use is pretty simple...
1) First (and most importantly), make sure your ground coffee has as little chaff in it as possible (too much chaff left in the ground coffee will plug the filter)
Fines? There should be little or no chaff in the coffee.
2) Heat up your water in the bottom pot and bring it to a rolling boil
3) Turn down your heat so that the water in the bottom pot is barely boiling
Wouldn't this work better if you waited 'til the water was north before turning the heat down?
4) Put the siphon down into the bottom pot
5) Allow water to travel north
6) Add ground coffee slowly to the water
7) While avoiding stirring the coffee too much, get all your grounds soaked in the hot water (this usually takes me 45-60 seconds)
What undesirable impact would stirring the grounds into the water have?
8) Because the Nicro 'down time'/ filtering is faster than when you use a Yama cloth filter, let the coffee water mixture stay north for 3 minutes, rather than the traditional 2 minute that you would use with a cloth filter.
9) It should take the Nicro only 1 minute to bring the coffee back down 'south'. If it takes longer than 1 minute, it is probably because there is too much chaff in the grounds you are using.
10) The 3 minutes up north, plus the 1 minute needed to filter and bring the coffee back down south to the bottom pot, will provide you with the exact 4 minutes of brewing time that is generally considered optimal for the Yama.
hope this helps
dg
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Tex
Great questions. Let me see if I can answer your questions...
Chaff?
>I roast my own coffee and I find that if there is too chaff on the beans after I finish roasting, it will get mixed in with the ground-up coffee and tend to plug the Nicro.
Whether to reduce heat before or after the water travels 'north'?
>Purely a personal preference.... I find that if I leave the stove temperature on high until the water all travels 'north', the water will sometimes come up rather violently into the top of the siphon and will splash over the top.
Over-stirring the grounds in the siphon?
I actually picked this advice from another person in this Vac-Pot discussion string. It seems that if you vigorously stir the grounds while up north in the siphon, there is a greater chance of stalling once the coffee starts heading south to the bottom pot. I took this advice and I now find that the 1 minute 'down time' using the Nicro SS filter is more consistent (1 minute +/- 10 seconds).
Hope this makes sense...
cheers
David
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Tex
Great questions. Let me see if I can answer your questions...
Chaff?
>I roast my own coffee and I find that if there is too chaff on the beans after I finish roasting, it will get mixed in with the ground-up coffee and tend to plug the Nicro.
Whether to reduce heat before or after the water travels 'north'?
>Purely a personal preference.... I find that if I leave the stove temperature on high until the water all travels 'north', the water will sometimes come up rather violently into the top of the siphon and will splash over the top.
Over-stirring the grounds in the siphon?
I actually picked this advice from another person in this Vac-Pot discussion string. It seems that if you vigorously stir the grounds while up north in the siphon, there is a greater chance of stalling once the coffee starts heading south to the bottom pot. I took this advice and I now find that the 1 minute 'down time' using the Nicro SS filter is more consistent (1 minute +/- 10 seconds).
Hope this makes sense...
cheers
David
Thanks David - it all made sense: there must be something wrong? ;D
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Tex- how did you make out with the Nicro filter?
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I scored this supposedly very rare Cory Fast-Flo filter made from glass. From my research the ceramic models are fairly common with the glass being more rare. I thought I might get into a bidding war over the item but I was the only bid.
Anyone ever used one of these? The design seems a bit sketchy but it make work fine. I bought it mainly to add to the collection anyway.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/coffee%20related/fastflo.jpg)
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Anyone ever used one of these? The design seems a bit sketchy but it make work fine. I bought it mainly to add to the collection anyway.
([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/coffee%20related/fastflo.jpg[/url])
Yes, I have the ceramic (what else is new?), a clear glass one with a green hue to it, and a ceramic one from Canada (which is a tad larger, maybe metric measured with the cast?).
B|Java
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Anyone ever used one of these? The design seems a bit sketchy but it make work fine. I bought it mainly to add to the collection anyway.
Yes, I have the ceramic (what else is new?), a clear glass one, and a glass one with a green hue to it from Canada (which is a tad larger, maybe metric measured with the cast?).
B|Java
How do they perform as a filter? I've read that these were the predecessor to the glass rods.
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Anyone ever used one of these? The design seems a bit sketchy but it make work fine. I bought it mainly to add to the collection anyway.
Yes, I have the ceramic (what else is new?), a clear glass one, and a glass one with a green hue to it from Canada (which is a tad larger, maybe metric measured with the cast?).
B|Java
How do they perform as a filter? I've read that these were the predecessor to the glass rods.
That's irrelevant - he HAS one!
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That's irrelevant - he HAS one!
<Oh boy, does Tex know me, yikes!>
Jason, mine have never been bathed nor will they. There is a reason these were on the market only a few years. They came out in the mid 30's. (I think BA Harris says '34 was the patent year). There was a 'sock' that went over the 'foot.' Maybe a Cory pot would be different but my hands are so large, I can't get my hand into the Yama sufficiently to place it. I would have to drop it a couple of inches. On top of that, it would be a perpetual mess to fish that socked brick out of the pot, remove it, get the grinds into the trash, wash it, etc.
I think it is very clear why these went out of fashion and were replaced by the rod. Here is a catalog from '41 that shows both the Fast Flo, item DF, and the Cory rod right below it.
And Tex is right, I have them; at least one of every filter I can find.
B|Java
(http://www.oldcoffeeroasters.com/images/vac%20pots/Cory%20Scans/41Cory/6.jpg)
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And here is where Cory shows the Fast Flo the side door and welcomes the New Cory Rod:
(http://www.oldcoffeeroasters.com/images/vac%20pots/Cory%20Scans/Coryinfo8.jpg)
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Here is your sock arrangement for the Fast Flo, Jason.
(http://www.oldcoffeeroasters.com/images/vac%20pots/Cory%20Scans/Coryinfo10.jpg)
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EXCELLENT material you've posted there Senor Java. Thanks.
My filter arrived in the mail today and it's bigger and heavier than I assumed from seeing the pictures. I know exactly why you would not want to drop it, from any height, into a glass vac pot funnel.
I may never use the filter but that doesn't mean that I don't want the ceramic version and the other glass version ;D.
I remember reading somewhere that some of the glass models had a flower molded into the glass. Mine arrived sans glass flower. Perhaps your Fast-Flo that came from the Great White North has said flower?
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...
I remember reading somewhere that some of the glass models had a flower molded into the glass. Mine arrived sans glass flower. Perhaps your Fast-Flo that came from the Great White North has said flower?
A-up. I am a flower bearing glass Cory brick holder. Keep hunting. I saw one on eBay about 2 weeks ago and the guy had it advertised, "Cory Paper Weight, Complete with its Own Bag." He went on to describe it as a promotional marketing item. I sent him an email and he said, "Thanks, really didn't have a clue what it was."
B|Java
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the guy had it advertised, "Cory Paper Weight, Complete with its Own Bag."
That is HILARIOUS!
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Staggerlee is among the novitiates now -- The Order of Cory.
B|Supplier
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What I wanna know (besides everything, and everything else :angel:) is,
What are those codes? PANDA PUREE is a bit disturbing, and I can't help wondering what DUCAT and DOBBIN were doing in the midst of all those PWORDS ... on a guided tour or something like that? Stepchildren of the bride's divorced dad's second ex's new husband?
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Interesting post Josh. Maybe vacpots that are yet to be conceived of, designed and produced?
B|Lost
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Anybody have any experience with the Bodum Santos Electric vac pot?
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Cwap. Lost this one.
It is a vintage Hellem, French made, new old stock. Thought I was covered with a bid and went to work happy. Had meetings so I couldn't track the bidding.
Got trumped. Someone else wins.
B|Java
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Hint; find out what the Czarina's ebay name is. She may outbidding you, just so you don't bring it home, and selling it before you see it.
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Cwap. Lost this one.
It is a vintage Hellem, French made, new old stock. Thought I was covered with a bid and went to work happy. Had meetings so I couldn't track the bidding.
Got trumped. Someone else wins.
B|Java
Oh were you bidding on that one? Sorry (I could have watched it for you).
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Trigger finger saw action 3 minutes ago. A new old stock Pyrex GE vacpot, Automatic, without the heating element. Bam! Bagged in one shot.
Anyone run one of these electrical burner designed vacpots on the kitchen stove? Balance? Glass tolerance of heat using just a 'thingamajig?' Trivet?
B|Java
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Cwap. Lost this one.
It is a vintage Hellem, French made, new old stock. Thought I was covered with a bid and went to work happy. Had meetings so I couldn't track the bidding.
Got trumped. Someone else wins.
B|Java
Ooh. That's a nice pot. I lost out on one of those a few months back. I think six is too few vac pots anyway.
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Trigger finger saw action 3 minutes ago. A new old stock Pyrex GE vacpot, Automatic, without the heating element. Bam! Bagged in one shot.
Anyone run one of these electrical burner designed vacpots on the kitchen stove? Balance? Glass tolerance of heat using just a 'thingamajig?' Trivet?
B|Java
Yahoo group long-timers said it works fine on a range top, using a small trivet/diffuser with medium heat. Good to go.
Pics pending.
B|Java
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Yeah, I use mine on the stovetop all the time - easy to make a trivet - cut a piece of coathanger wire and bend into a "Z" shape the right size to support the pot. Another caution - be careful about where you set the pot taking it off the heat - a cool counter top can cause it to break. I set mine on a kitchen towel or pot holder.
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Thx, SPD. I have tons of trivets from my Yama/Cory/Silex collection. I usually rest the spent pot right on the top of the stove, off a burner.
B|Java
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When you have an itch, scratch it. New, old stock GE Automatic. Early 40's.
Gasket shows no sign of use/wear; very supple. Softer than traditional gasket (see next post).
Big question is can I use it or will it join the other unbaptized vacpots in the cellar?
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Here is the top of an 'Automatic.' The words say, 'clamp' and 'release.' It seems to be a second means of vacuum support (has the standard Cory filter). Need to figure it out so it does not play Mount St. Helena on me.
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Here it stands with an 8-cup Yama. Move over Y.A.Yama. A G.E. pre-Welch is in the house.
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Love the funky retro-ness of it. I can hear the old telephones, see the women's hair-do's, and wait for the camera to cut to Humphrey Bogart with a cigarette dangling from his lips in a B&W flick.
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I use every vac pot I buy at least once. I don't feel it's my vac pot till I run some home roast through it.
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I use every vac pot I buy at least once. I don't feel it's my vac pot till I run some home roast through it.
That is actually how I voted as well. Brother Sheridan urged me to brew in a couple of other virgins I have in the cellar. I didn't budge. On this one, I may be tipped to brew.
B|Java
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I usually try every vac pot at least once, but I'm just sticking this one up the shelf. It doesn't look like it's ever been used (no scratches or marks on the gasket). It's too '60ish for my tastes, but it's one I didn't have.
Silex Regent - early 60's?
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Love the funky retro-ness of it. I can hear the old telephones, see the women's hair-do's, and wait for the camera to cut to Humphrey Bogart with a cigarette dangling from his lips in a B&W flick.
the Czarina tied you up for buying too many coffee toys I see ~wink~
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I usually try every vac pot at least once, but I'm just sticking this one up the shelf. It doesn't look like it's ever been used (no scratches or marks on the gasket). It's too '60ish for my tastes, but it's one I didn't have.
Silex Regent - early 60's?
Don't forget the doily.
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I usually try every vac pot at least once, but I'm just sticking this one up the shelf. It doesn't look like it's ever been used (no scratches or marks on the gasket). It's too '60ish for my tastes, but it's one I didn't have.
Silex Regent - early 60's?
Don't forget the doily.
Mrs T has chosen one of her Grandmother's Plauener Spitze doilies for this.
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Hi BJava - I think the clamp/release is just to hold the lid on the upper globe so the handle can be used to lift it off - actually a handy feature because taking the hot globe off of my Silex is always a little messy and dicey - I don't think it has anything to do with the vacuum functions. Go for it!
A related question - I have a pristine white Cory NOS in box which I may sell - if I run a brew through it to test it out, can I no longer call it New Old Stock? Is it now just a plain old used pot?
Also, I went through an eBay buying frenzy when I first got into this "cult" and acquired quite a few pieces - glass and metal vacuum pots, espresso machines, espresso cups, roasters, grinders, etc., etc.
I need to pare down to just a few pieces that I actually use and a few of my favorite "collectibles" that I don't want to part with.
Would it be better to offer the items on this site first before going to eBay? What kind of items are the site members here interested in? Only perfect collectibles or also functional but imperfect items? Thanks for any input on this.
Aloha, Stephen In Paradise. :glasses9:
Hey, who trimmed the smileys? - my palm tree is gone!
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Hi BJava - I think the clamp/release is just to hold the lid on the upper globe so the handle can be used to lift it off - actually a handy feature because taking the hot globe off of my Silex is always a little messy and dicey - I don't think it has anything to do with the vacuum functions. Go for it!
Thanks for the insight. Sounds much more logical. I will brew in it on Saturday morning.
A related question - I have a pristine white Cory NOS in box which I may sell - if I run a brew through it to test it out, can I no longer call it New Old Stock? Is it now just a plain old used pot?
I would leave it untested and sell it as New, Old Stock.
Also, I went through an eBay buying frenzy when I first got into this "cult" ...
I need to pare down to just a few pieces that I actually use and a few of my favorite "collectibles" that I don't want to part with.
Would it be better to offer the items on this site first before going to eBay?
My guess is that you know their value. If you are going to offer them here, I would probably cross post on Coffee Geek with fixed prices so that you are hitting a broader market. Just make sure you keep them both current to save everyone their sanity. A member did that recently and moved a ton of stuff at reasonable, market-appropriate prices.
What kind of items are the site members here interested in? Only perfect collectibles or also functional but imperfect items?
Hey, who trimmed the smileys? - my palm tree is gone!
Wrong site. http://homeroasters.org (http://homeroasters.org) ? No palms here except for the ones stretched out, looking for beans.
B|Java
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I ran a test run with just tap water on the vintage GE to ensure that the water would move north and stay there. Worked fine. Time for the coffee test. (42 ounces to 8-cup line).
Ran up to 196 and added the top dome with some Guat (standard Cory rod), ground to slight fine side of medium -- my standard vacpot grind. No rod dancing. Two minutes steep. Needs continued medium plus heat, whereas the Yama benefits from a turn-down to medium low once water is ascended. Removed from heat. 85% of fluid descended in 1:40 and then it stalled. (My Yama/Cory rods never stall).
Took the Cory out -- poked at the grounds that were problematic. All fines (these don't preclude the Yama from totally draining). Compared the rod seating areas of domes on the Yama and the GE. The Cory rod sits in a relatively flat Yama seating. In the GE, there is more of an angle as the dome moves into the tube leading south. Therein lies the difference.
Going to throw the New Cory rod (was using standard) and the Silex Lox-In to see if that makes a difference.
I count it is a success.
B|Java
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Got outbid on this twin for my 1960s Avocado green plastic domed Cory. New old stock in the box. I wonder if HeadChange scored?
B|Java
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Had it in my watch list and my iPhone told me it was closing soon, but I didn't bid. Expected it to sell for more than it did.
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Count me in as a member of the vacpack. I broke the top bowl on my 5 cup tabletop model and couldn't finish the day without ordering a replacement. I had it for 6 months and maybe used it twice with the stock filter. After B|sniper hooked me up with with the silex a month ago, it has had daily use.
Greater infusions seems to be the current price leader for replacements, but I ended up spending extra because I wanted to try the ceramic filter orphan had.
Then I went a little crazy and bought a metal filter to try from caffe pronto, and would have bought a littler 3 cup Hario if I could have found it.
Do the little 3 cup versions use different size filters? Why no US Hario tabletop vacpot distributors?
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ecc pointed out these ultra-cool Hario vac pot paper filter units. They look like they would work well on Yamas and other vac pots. I'm checking with my Hario distributor to see if I can get some.
(http://www.avenue18.ca/image/acc/538.jpg)
While researching those paper filter holder I ran across a a write-up (http://www.coffeed.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2948) on using a similar filter holder with an Astoria dispersion screen to make a all metal vac pot filter:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/coffee%20related/yamaassembly.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/coffee%20related/siphondispersion.jpg)
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Andy Sprenger works for Caffe Pronto, and sells the completed assembly from their website. I have seen mention of it in this thread. Unfortunately, they are back-ordered. Which led me to espresso parts trying to get a yama tea filter. Back-ordered.
Hario does sell a wire tea mesh for their paper filter assembly for around $10, but the Astoria screen can be had slightly cheaper, and looks way cooler.
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I have tried a ton of different filters with my Yama, including the Hario metal/ paper combo and the Astoria wire filter mod. If you are going to spend money for an extra filter, my advice it to try and get your hands on a vintage Nicro metal filter from a Nicro Vac Brewer (usually you can find one up for auction on eBay). It fits the Yama brewer and is, IMHO, the very best filter you can find for the Yama. Over the past 10 years using a Yama and having tried almost every type of filter combo with a Yama that you can think of, I would have to say that the Nicro consistently produces the best cup of joe with minimal clean-up mess.
My second most favourite filter for the Yama is the tried and true cloth filter that comes as standard issue with the Yama. Only problem is that the Yama cloth filter will need to be washed/ changed occasionally to keep the coffee oils from building up.
DG
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I just dug out an old GE vacpot from our shop's basement storage - I'm still going through the random boxes of stuff that came with the shop. It has an electric base, and looks to have all the pieces except for the power cord. Anyone have any idea where to get a cord for this, and if it's even worth getting?
The sticker on the bottom plate says " CAT NO 119P15, 115 volts, 550 watts". Wonder if it's worth pursuing or if I should just put it on display and pick up a new vacpot (I've never used one before).
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Anyone have any idea where to get a cord for this,
Thrift stores, prolly generic two pronger?
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Anyone have any idea where to get a cord for this,
Thrift stores, prolly generic two pronger?
It is. I'll probably just leave it in the car for the next time I pass a Thrift.
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Do you think this guy was just pulling our leg?
Vacuum Coffee Maker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QhCM4HAm5I#)
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I found a Bodum Santos at a local thrift store today.. $6.00 Any one use one of these?? any thoughts, opinions, warnings?? bodum site has replacement filters and a price but it says "coming soon"
Found a manual on line and didn't learn much from it.. its very simple machine.. 7 grams per cup.. I will pour coffee in as soon as the coffee is all in the top chamber.. I ran a full pot of water through it, 5 minutes from start to almost launching a glass filter rod?!?!?! (guess I will try the micro filter in the morning) 2.5 minutes later it stopped heating the water and then at 3 minutes brew time it started a 30 second drop south.. we shall see how well it makes coffee in the morning
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQ1Xe4o39fUeiUIJ5FO6wRbEBkVL-M9lrYHOHv2dsYF09ZePV8)
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Wow. What a find. An electric Bodum Santos for $6? That's a fantastic deal.
I almost bought one off CG not too long ago. It was intended to be used as an everyday vac pot, but during my research I found that the plastic tends to crack and leak over time.
I've never used one but I read that you can modify it to improve the final product. I think you remove a little length from the bottom of the funnel.
If you ever get tired of looking at it let me know and I'll buy it from you. ;D
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that would be a bummer if it brittles out... I am planning on it being my main large pot brewer.. I use a clever (that brittled out) for our usual morning needs.. any clue on where you saw those mods?
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I used one with the stock filter for a while and they make a good cup. The trick was to put a quarter under the pot where the handle is. This keeps some water in the bottom over where the sensor is that normally tells it that it's empty and should turn the heating element off, which in turn keeps the water up north a little longer.
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I used one with the stock filter for a while and they make a good cup. The trick was to put a quarter under the pot where the handle is...
Then why did you ask me for a $.50 piece when I was over when we tried this machine?
Which reminds me, you never gave it back.
B|Java
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any clue on where you saw those mods?
I can't remember where I saw the instructions. I looked for them a bit this a.m. but didn't turn up anything. I'll keep looking and let you know what I find.
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any clue on where you saw those mods?
I can't remember where I saw the instructions. I looked for them a bit this a.m. but didn't turn up anything. I'll keep looking and let you know what I find.
it makes a pretty good cup right out of the gate.. if B|numismatist will send me a quarter, half dollar and a silver dolor I would do a few tests on peters fix..
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any clue on where you saw those mods?
I can't remember where I saw the instructions. I looked for them a bit this a.m. but didn't turn up anything. I'll keep looking and let you know what I find.
it makes a pretty good cup right out of the gate.. if B|numismatist will send me a quarter, half dollar and a silver dolor I would do a few tests on peters fix..
If you're waiting for B|CoinCollector to help out, you should be expecting to see how it works with a nickel.
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any clue on where you saw those mods?
I can't remember where I saw the instructions. I looked for them a bit this a.m. but didn't turn up anything. I'll keep looking and let you know what I find.
it makes a pretty good cup right out of the gate.. if B|numismatist will send me a quarter, half dollar and a silver dolor I would do a few tests on peters fix..
If you're waiting for B|CoinCollector to help out, you should be expecting to see how it works with a nickel.
He can throw one of those in if he likes ~~grins~~
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I brewed up a 5 cup pot of Saturday's City+ Burundi Kayanza Bwayi on Sunday in the Yama 8 cup with the Silex Lox-In glass rod that B|Java sold me and recorded a video with my phone. No high production values and I didn't record the audio lest a family member have a few choice words to say about my endeavorer, but I thought there might be some interest and I didn't see a better place to post this.
Siphon Coffee (and bacon) on Youtube ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5n5_0VqSWY#[/url])
Yes, that's a pan of bacon frying in the background. The Burundi was really nice with nice oils floating on top with some crisp apricot acidity and the bacon and popeyes were good too.
sigh.... now I want breakfast for dinner!?!?!
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I let the water come to a full boil in the lower pot before I attach the top pot. As the water heats, it will begin rising through the tube before it reaches proper brewing temps. Waiting for it to boil before letting it rise ensures a higher brewing temp...
If you put the top on while it is boiling, you will blow the roof off. I doubt you mean that literally. My guess is that you are putting the dome on around 196-198,* either as the temp is ascending or dropping down after it has boiled. I catch it on the way up.
B|Java
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I let the water come to a full boil in the lower pot before I attach the top pot. As the water heats, it will begin rising through the tube before it reaches proper brewing temps. Waiting for it to boil before letting it rise ensures a higher brewing temp...
If you put the top on while it is boiling, you will blow the roof off. I doubt you mean that literally. My guess is that you are putting the dome on around 196-198,* either as the temp is ascending or dropping down after it has boiled. I catch it on the way up.
B|Java
Please don't edit my posts to add comments, use reply or quote.
I add water from my HX to the lower pot, put it over the heat source, wait until it's at a rolling boil, then put the top pot on. I've never had the roof blown off yet. I wait 'til the water is almost all in the top chamber to add the coffee & stir it a few times.
I don't see a safety issue?
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I have had instances of a violent explosion of water from the top if I let the the water get to a rolling boil in the bottom before adding the funnel. It's not blowing water all the way up to the range hood, but it is enough spill over the edge and down the sides of the vac pot. I've always heard that getting water on the outside of the bottom pot while on the burner can cause cracks or breakage, but that's never happened to me.
I boil water in a kettle, add it to the bottom, and then put on the funnel with the burner on my electric stove at 75%. When a little over half the water has migrated north I cut the heat back to about 35% and leave there for the duration of the steep. I don't add coffee until all the water has come up and is "bubbling" (from the vacuum and not from heat). Just before adding coffee my water temp is 198'ish.
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I have had instances of a violent explosion of water from the top if I let the the water get to a rolling boil in the bottom before adding the funnel. It's not blowing water all the way up to the range hood, but it is enough spill over the edge and down the sides of the vac pot. I've always heard that getting water on the outside of the bottom pot while on the burner can cause cracks or breakage, but that's never happened to me.
I boil water in a kettle, add it to the bottom, and then put on the funnel with the burner on my electric stove at 75%. When a little over half the water has migrated north I cut the heat back to about 35% and leave there for the duration of the steep. I don't add coffee until all the water has come up and is "bubbling" (from the vacuum and not from heat). Just before adding coffee my water temp is 198'ish.
I've had trouble if I overfill the bottom bowl. It happens when you add the cold upper bowl with its cold glass.
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...
Please don't edit my posts to add comments, use reply or quote.
I add water from my HX to the lower pot, put it over the heat source, wait until it's at a rolling boil, then put the top pot on. I've never had the roof blown off yet. I wait 'til the water is almost all in the top chamber to add the coffee & stir it a few times.
I don't see a safety issue?
Edit on your post was inadvertent, not intentional. I apologize. I wasn't aware of it until you kindly pointed it out.
As Jason attests (and I can confirm), if a novice took your directions literally, using a Cory rod, that water will indeed roll over the top and spit at whomever is near it at the rolling boil you posted. Suggest you measure that temp that you are describing as a "rolling boil" that doesn't spill over the sides of the dome.
Note to others: From a safety perspective, buy a thermometer, put the dome in at 198*. I would encourage you not to put the dome on at a rolling boil as Tex suggests. If you feel his approach is worth a try, use a thermometer and on each successive pot, use water that is one degree hotter. Find out for yourself at what temp life becomes interesting.
B|Java
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I've had trouble if I overfill the bottom bowl. It happens when you add the cold upper bowl with its cold glass.
I'll admit that I always overfill. :-[
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I use my vac pot every morning. I set the bottom, with water, on the burner and let it come up to temp with a setting on 5 out of 10. I take my shower, fill the wood burner, come upstairs and add the top. Once the water rises I turn the temp down to 3 and brew! never had a problem....... until a couple days ago I was "attending my operation with the top on with the setting at 7" and the phone rang. I forgot it was on and it overflowed and the bottom broke! :(
Thank goodness a spare was in the shop and production continues each morning....... Moral of the story, "Don't answer the phone!" jim >:D
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I forgot to mention that I turn the butane burner to low when ~75% of the water has been pushed up the tube.
I was taught my technique by grandma, who used one of my Silex since it was given to her as a wedding gift 70(ish) years ago. She warned us often to never overfill the lower chamber, or we'd get a dangerous eruption of water.
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I was taught my technique by grandma, who used one of my Silex since it was given to her as a wedding gift 70(ish) years ago. She warned us often to never overfill the lower chamber, or we'd get a dangerous eruption of water.
I'll bet she was making frou-frou.
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I was taught my technique by grandma, who used one of my Silex since it was given to her as a wedding gift 70(ish) years ago. She warned us often to never overfill the lower chamber, or we'd get a dangerous eruption of water.
I'll bet she was making frou-frou.
With Maxwell House .... mmmmmm ;D
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I was taught my technique by grandma, who used one of my Silex since it was given to her as a wedding gift 70(ish) years ago. She warned us often to never overfill the lower chamber, or we'd get a dangerous eruption of water.
I'll bet she was making frou-frou.
You bet your bippy; she was making Cajun-style cafe au laite, and doing so with fresh-roasted beans for most of her life. Grandpa owned a country store/gas station in Humble, Texas (one of my all-time oxy morons!), and had what looked like one of the old time Royal peanut/coffee roasters (besides coffee he also sold fresh roasted goobers).
Grandma gave my mom & dad a Silex for a wedding present (late 30's) that they never used - only a modern aluminum percolator was good enough for them!
I used to spend most of my summers helping at the store, but was never allowed to use the roaster - that had to wait until a few years ago when I began home roasting. They had a double-decker Silex vac pot setup in the store that I wish I had now - it could make two pots at a time on the lower burners and keep two warm on the top burners.
Coffee was free to everyone who came in the store; her beignets & donuts were a nickel each, and she was always busy frying fresh ones. She's the one who taught me what good coffee was supposed to taste like. I could never get past the first sip with the stuff mom used to make! :icon_puke_l:
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Had to add this toy. I have never seen this porcelain vacpot filter. Must have been a short-lived product. Grabbed it off eBay and will see if it needs to be fitted with cotton filter or if it works 'nude' once it arrives.
B|Java
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Take a look at this vac pot.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$%28KGrHqEOKikE3y01MNVmBOC%299iFECw%7E%7E0_12.JPG)
1) I'll bet the bottom pot cracks after the first few uses because of the glass handle that's attached to the pot (different expansion rates).
2) Look at the funny little spout on the side. I'm assuming that's a stopper behind the pot? Maybe if the brew stalls one could apply a little mouth-suction to move things along?
There may be an underground market for this. It's got the makings of a killer bong!
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I have a porcelain filter I use with my Silex K2 vacpot. I use it as is, no cloth filter. It does a good job, but I prefer a glass rod. You don't have to worry about bumping the filter when wetting the grounds, which is a plus. Clean up is easy enough. The K2 is a little small for a glass rod, making it difficult to get the coffee submerged without bumping the rod. So, I just use the porcelain filter and it works fine. Good luck with your new filter.
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After reading this thread I had to pull the trigger on a stovetop Yama 5 cup.
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After reading this thread I had to pull the trigger on a stovetop Yama 5 cup.
You know what they say, "Once you go vac, you'll never go back!" ;D
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After reading this thread I had to pull the trigger on a stovetop Yama 5 cup.
My 8 cup Yama is my main brewing method! Nothing like a good vac pot! No it's not espresso, but a good cup of vac pot coffee is the best brewing method for a "good cup of coffee!" IMHO
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After reading this thread I had to pull the trigger on a stovetop Yama 5 cup.
My 8 cup Yama is my main brewing method! Nothing like a good vac pot! No it's not espresso, but a good cup of vac pot coffee is the best brewing method for a "good cup of coffee!" IMHO
I'd rate the AP & FP slightly ahead of the vac pot for complexity of flavor, but it's certainly capable of producing a great cup of coffee.
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My first experiment today with the vac pot didn't go well. During my steep time I left the heat too high and the water up top reach boiling point. Lesson learned, I'll give it a try again tomorrow with less heat after the water goes up top. I also think I used too little coffee I follow SM's suggestion of 32 grams for a five cup. I think I remeber reading here that most people had settled on 38 grams but I will go back through the thread and check that.
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My first experiment today with the vac pot didn't go well. During my steep time I left the heat too high and the water up top reach boiling point. Lesson learned, I'll give it a try again tomorrow with less heat after the water goes up top. I also think I used too little coffee I follow SM's suggestion of 32 grams for a five cup. I think I remeber reading here that most people had settled on 38 grams but I will go back through the thread and check that.
38-40 gr, slightly finer than a drip or pourover.
B|Java
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This is how I use my 5-cup vac pot.
2011-05-12: How I use a Yami vaccum coffee maker to brew a perfect cup of coffee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ83X-aMSPs#ws)
I don't claim to be a vac pot exspurt, but I like what I make.
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That's a great video Tex!
Couple thoughts; the 90sec. extraction period would've been a great time to tell some jokes about northerners in general, or Milo. You don't look at all like someone who would purloin a Sonofresco.
;D
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That's a great video Tex!
Couple thoughts; the 90sec. extraction period would've been a great time to tell some jokes about northerners in general, or Milo. You don't look at all like someone who would purloin a Sonofresco.
;D
Thanks Peter, but what it needs is someone signing in a small window.
I tried to get Mrs T to step in & tell some of her German jokes, but seeing as how they have no sense of humor that translates to English, it would've been a disaster. Maybe next time I'll put one of my cats up there to do some tricks?
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This mornings brew was much better! I went with 40 grams and turned the flame down very low as the water was going up top. Two minute steep time and about ninety seconds to drain. I never got the whoosh when draining I think I stirred too much or my grind was to fine. But the coffee was great, todays brew was a blend of left overs from my last roasts. 28g Romance Blend, 6g El Sal Orange Bourbon and 6g Brazil Organic Fazenda Colina
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... But the coffee was great, todays brew was ...
Welcome to the Club's club.
B|Java
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This mornings brew was much better! I went with 40 grams and turned the flame down very low as the water was going up top. Two minute steep time and about ninety seconds to drain. I never got the whoosh when draining I think I stirred too much or my grind was to fine. But the coffee was great, todays brew was a blend of left overs from my last roasts. 28g Romance Blend, 6g El Sal Orange Bourbon and 6g Brazil Organic Fazenda Colina
If I know it's going into vac pots only, I'll shoot for a City+ roast to minimize any bitterness. I've found that roast level is critical for vac pots, more so than any other method.
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Thanks for the tips, I roasted some El Sal San Juan Bosco from Klatch Yesterday to a nice city+. When its ready I'll give it a try in the vac pot.
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For those of you who have yet to "come over" to the vacpot. Why we have fallen for the vacpot is presented here. He calls the YouTube, "An Afternoon Meditation..."
Afternoon Coffee Meditation with the Yama Siphon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMm-pKS1W7M#ws)
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Never have stalls. Ever. Had one today and haven't a clue what caused it. Regardless, despite attempts at gentle wiggles, the rod wasn't going to budge so I just left it alone on a cool back burner. The <<bad boy>> was locked. Two hours later, it was half drawn down. Came home from work and it was all down, drained.
Moral of the story? Avoid implosions. Leave the pot alone.
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It's those B|Poocher dark roasts that stall 'em every time ::)
FC JBM. The rod was really dancing when I put it in -- impatience on my part creted the dilemma. I own that.
B|Java
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Happy New Year Everyone!
Been awhile..saw the vacpot thread and thought why not?
I am interested in buying a couple vacpots or top peices, the last
3 out of 4 on the "bay came smashed, got refunded on one but the other two..
who knows? So anyone here have anything they want to move along? (BJ or anyone else?)
Thanks Chef (Retired!) Glenn
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Happy New Year Everyone!
Been awhile..saw the vacpot thread and thought why not?
I am interested in buying a couple vacpots or top peices, the last
3 out of 4 on the "bay came smashed, got refunded on one but the other two..
who knows? So anyone here have anything they want to move along? (BJ or anyone else?)
Thanks Chef (Retired!) Glenn
Let me scour the basement this afternoon. I keep the Yamas (5- and 8-cups) busy in the daily lineup.
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If B|Java doesn't have what you are looking for check Orphan Espresso (http://www.orphanespresso.com/Vintage-Vac-Pot-Parts_c_256.html) they sell parts for vintage vac pots. If you don't find the parts you are looking for they also sell new Yama 5 cups for $28.50 not a bad price at all.
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If B|Java doesn't have what you are looking for check Orphan Espresso ([url]http://www.orphanespresso.com/Vintage-Vac-Pot-Parts_c_256.html[/url]) they sell parts for vintage vac pots. If you don't find the parts you are looking for they also sell new Yama 5 cups for $28.50 not a bad price at all.
I only have the vintage unused Cory pot that I don't want to part with -- I would suggest a new Yama. Grab a glass rod and you are golden.
B|Java
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While we are talking vac pots has anyone tried one of these filters (http://www.orphanespresso.com/Stainless-Steel-Mesh-Vac-Pot-Filter-with-Holder_p_3535.html#) from OE?
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If B|Java doesn't have what you are looking for check Orphan Espresso ([url]http://www.orphanespresso.com/Vintage-Vac-Pot-Parts_c_256.html[/url]) they sell parts for vintage vac pots. If you don't find the parts you are looking for they also sell new Yama 5 cups for $28.50 not a bad price at all.
I only have the vintage unused Cory pot that I don't want to part with -- I would suggest a new Yama. Grab a glass rod and you are golden.
B|Java
I have a couple extra cory rods if anyone nees one...... my cost, jim
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Friend gave me a Silex to add to the collection. Silex Lox-in rod was mine already and works a treat. Had a gasket leak between the funnel and gasket, would Dow 111 work to seal this? Gasket looks fine.
Check Orphan...I recall at some point Doug had some replacment rubber gaskets. Dunno about 111.
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Anyone have a spare glass rod that will work with the Yama cnt-5?
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I may have one <grins> hundred. http://greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=7223.0 (http://greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=7223.0)
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Chris,
Northwestern glass has a complete parts list for Yamas...
http://www.northwestglass.com/siphon-topholder-p-611.html (http://www.northwestglass.com/siphon-topholder-p-611.html)
JW
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Anyone know where I can get a spare Yama lid/base? It works well with the Silex. I may have to get a new wide-mouth gasket, mine is lose on the funnel.
Chris,
I have a spare one I'll send with your bags at No cost! I will get those out on Monday or Tuesday...... jim
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Jim is such a nice fellow. :D
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Jim is such a nice fellow. :D
Indeed! One of the nicest fellows I've known.
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I found on the innerwebs today some fellow named Tex on a vac pot forum recommended PermaTEX red high temp gasket seal to seal the gasket to the funnel. I picked up a tube at the auto parts store (one of the last behind the counter as they're replacing it with another brand) while getting my battery checked out.
Tex, is it better to apply the bead to the glass or the gasket? It does have the NSF/ANSI label on it.
BTW, the battery turns out to be factory, nine years old, I think it's time for a replacement.
Only use the RTV sealant to close gaps between the tube & the still pliable gasket. In that regard it doesn't matter which you apply it to.
BTW, I quit that group because some of those vac pot gurus were debating which store bought coffee worked best.
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I found on the innerwebs today some fellow named Tex on a vac pot forum recommended PermaTEX red high temp gasket seal to seal the gasket to the funnel. I picked up a tube at the auto parts store (one of the last behind the counter as they're replacing it with another brand) while getting my battery checked out.
Tex, is it better to apply the bead to the glass or the gasket? It does have the NSF/ANSI label on it.
BTW, the battery turns out to be factory, nine years old, I think it's time for a replacement.
Only use the RTV sealant to close gaps between the tube & the still pliable gasket. In that regard it doesn't matter which you apply it to.
BTW, I quit that group because some of those vac pot gurus were debating which store bought coffee worked best.
Don't blame you ... knowing that I would not have joined!
:o
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Record setters. Early prototypes. 7" and 8" respectively. Just snagged them in eBay auction. These are collector items. The seating arrangements and design are similar to a 6" Corning glass filter that I own.
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Nice score. Look pristine.
Who made them?
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Nice score. Look pristine.
Who made them?
Unlabeled but have Corning "written all over them."
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Sweet!
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Size matters, then?
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Quite some time ago, someone asked me to put up a display of my filters. So, here goes. These are all Cornings. Rare, but they get my daily use.
The longer ones (7"and 8") just arrived. No trademark but I believe they are early Corning prototypes from the '30s. Top to bottom: 8", 7", 6", and 5."
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Cory is the most common glass rod out there. Here is a box of 12 from the '30s. This case has a totally round barrel.
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Later Corys brought a square top so they didn't roll off the counter. 3 Corys here:
Top, "New Cory," ~6.5" (longest Cory)
Center, Standard Cory - most common glass rod in circulation, ~6"
Bottom, Barrel Topped Dome - late '30s. ~6"
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Silex Lox-In and Pyrex are great as well. The Lox-In (shorter spring arrangement) works better in the 5-cup Yama and I use the longer one in the 8-cup Yama.
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Here are some odds and ends for you:
Upper left, Silex Cermaic/Cloth arrangement, early '40s
Upper center, a Polan (WVA manufacturer). I have a virgin Polan in the basement.
Upper right, a Dutch Filter Vaculator
Bottom, current Yama cloth/SS arrangement
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On the bottom is a Cona, in comparison to a couple of Corys. Others insist they have used the Cona in a Hario and Yama; I have not found it a workable filter for a Yama.
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...
The longer ones (7"and 8") just arrived. No trademark but I believe they are early Corning prototypes from the '30s. Top to bottom: 8", 7", 6", and 5."
I posed the question to BA Harris, owner of the most comprehensive website on vacpots on the net: http://baharris.org (http://baharris.org). Who made these?
He has never seen the 7" and 8" rods I have as part of the collection. He suggests that they are prototypes from a patent from RW Kell and others -- never made it into production. Image below, patent from 1933. I will add to his theory and suggest that Corning bought the patent and began their production runs. Though Corning never made the 7" and 8" rods, when you hold theirs and the 7 and 8" ones side by side, the similarity is too striking to be otherwise.
B|Java
(http://www.baharris.org/coffee/Patents/1927287.gif)
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I give up. I have sat here for 10 minutes trying to figure out what in the world this is? Orphan is selling it for the Yama:
http://www.orphanespresso.com/Yama-Siphon-Carafe-Stopper_p_4910.html (http://www.orphanespresso.com/Yama-Siphon-Carafe-Stopper_p_4910.html)
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I give up. I have sat here for 10 minutes trying to figure out what in the world this is? Orphan is selling it for the Yama:
[url]http://www.orphanespresso.com/Yama-Siphon-Carafe-Stopper_p_4910.html[/url] ([url]http://www.orphanespresso.com/Yama-Siphon-Carafe-Stopper_p_4910.html[/url])
Top for the carafe.
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I give up. I have sat here for 10 minutes trying to figure out what in the world this is? Orphan is selling it for the Yama:
[url]http://www.orphanespresso.com/Yama-Siphon-Carafe-Stopper_p_4910.html[/url] ([url]http://www.orphanespresso.com/Yama-Siphon-Carafe-Stopper_p_4910.html[/url])
Top for the carafe.
I just don't see it. Dense this a.m. <Leave that alone, grins>.
This is what Orphan says. I see no "complex problem..."
"Silicone Stopper for Yama SY-8 Stovetop Vacuum Pot Bottom Carafe - fits nicely in, has a tube through the silicone ball which functions as the handle for easy removal & insertion into the neck of the carafe and prevents a vacuum seal forming which would suck the ball into the carafe! An elegant solution to a surpringly complex problem!"
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Yup, just a fancy stopper for the bottom section to help retain heat. It allows the pressure to equalize as the coffee cools so it doesn't get sucked it.
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Yup, just a fancy stopper for the bottom section to help retain heat. It allows the pressure to equalize as the coffee cools so it doesn't get sucked it.
Now I see it. I had it pictured in my mind much larger than it probably is.
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A fix for a problem that shouldn't exist. If someone knows enough about coffee to use a vac pot, they wouldn't leave it in a glass carafe, would they?
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I am suffering from vac pot envy. The first two pots I made in my Yama 8 cup a week ago were simply great - this must have been beginner's luck.
Since then, I have tried the vac pot five more times with disappointing results. The coffee has been very weak and under-extracted. I have been forced back to the Technivorm for decent coffee.
After much analysis and research, my conclusion is that the problem is the temperature of the water in the upper bowl - it is too low. I insert the upper bowl when the bottom bowl temp measures anywhere from 195 degrees to 200 degrees. This temperature is based on comments starting on page 30 in this thread (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=4246.msg172766#msg172766).
I wait until the water is all in the top chamber before I add the coffee and stir. So far I have not gotten the temp in the upper bowl above 195 degrees. I assume that is why my coffee is under-extracted. How can I get the temperature high enough without it being TOO high?! :o
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Wait till about 198 before putting upper bowl on. Then remeasure temp and let top again come to 198. Water will inch up in temp if not at 198. Should work fine.
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Wait till about 198 before putting upper bowl on. Then remeasure temp and let top again come to 198. Water will inch up in temp if not at 198. Should work fine.
I actually tried this approach today as my "final attempt" before posting. Maybe I was not patient enough. After about 3 minutes, the temp in the upper bowl was only 195, and did not want to increase.
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I am suffering from vac pot envy. The first two pots I made in my Yama 8 cup a week ago were simply great - this must have been beginner's luck.
Since then, I have tried the vac pot five more times with disappointing results. The coffee has been very weak and under-extracted. I have been forced back to the Technivorm for decent coffee.
After much analysis and research, my conclusion is that the problem is the temperature of the water in the upper bowl - it is too low. I insert the upper bowl when the bottom bowl temp measures anywhere from 195 degrees to 200 degrees. This temperature is based on comments starting on page 30 in this thread ([url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=4246.msg172766#msg172766[/url]).
I wait until the water is all in the top chamber before I add the coffee and stir. So far I have not gotten the temp in the upper bowl above 195 degrees. I assume that is why my coffee is under-extracted. How can I get the temperature high enough without it being TOO high?! :o
The vac pot is my MAIN BREWING METHOD! How long are you letting the grounds soak before stirring and how long are you letting them seep after the stir??? I let mine sit for 30 seconds before stirring and then let them seep for 2 minutes.... great EVERY TIME!!!!! I agree with B/J. Get it to 198 degrees but don't add the grounds until the cory rod settles..... ;)
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I actually had a stall the second time I used the Cory rod - and that was the last time I used it. For the moment, I have gone back to using the cloth filter.
I wasn't letting the grounds sit at all. I add the grounds, stir thoroughly, then set a timer for 2 minutes. If I can get the upper bowl temp to 200 degrees, I think everything would be great!
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I can't see that there would be a significant difference between 195 and 200, as far as the results go.
You're using the same water:coffee ratio as before?
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I have increased the coffee slightly. This "recipe" uses the quantity of water measured based on markings on Yama bowl, instead of the correct ounces to grams conversion:
Yama water coffee
"cups" grams grams| 5 640 37 |
| 6 820 44 |
| 7 993 51 |
| 8 1150 57 |
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Rick, Jim posted some good tips. Time steeped is critical. Your coffee amount is very light for my tastes. I use 68-70 grams of coffee for the 8-cup. My summary (OK, long summary...) at CoffeeGeek details my approach to the unit and prep: http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/vacpots/yamavacpots/BoldJava/5238 (http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/vacpots/yamavacpots/BoldJava/5238)
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Dave, I had read your excellent notes at CG. Those notes do not include steeping the grounds for 30 seconds, otherwise I would be doing that already ;)
What I read about the quantity of coffee for the vac pot was quite variable - very much to individual taste. My preference is on the light side - I only use 38 grams for the "8 cup" measure in the Technivorm (32 ounces).
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...
What I read about the quantity of coffee for the vac pot was quite variable - very much to individual taste. My preference is on the light side - I only use 38 grams for the "8 cup" measure in the Technivorm (32 ounces).
You get more mileage from your 5 lbs of Yemen than I do <grins>. Tastes vary and make the world go round.
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Rick, even though you like coffee on the lighter side, I'd still suggest bumping it up to see if you like it more, especially since your vac-pot is turning out a weak coffee. My Yama 5-cup gets 44g at the full 5-cup level... coffee goes in after water's been on top for a bit, grounds get pushed down, timer is set for 2min, pot is pulled off the burner when the timer's done, perfect coffee every time. My other advice would be to figure out what caused the stalls, and revert back to the glass rod.
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I'll give it another shot this afternoon. This version of my "recipe" uses the correct ounces to grams conversion for the water:
Yama water coffee
"cups" grams grams| 5 709 44 |
| 6 851 53 |
| 7 993 61 |
| 8 1135 70 |
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Rick, Jim posted some good tips. Time steeped is critical. Your coffee amount is very light for my tastes. I use 68-70 grams of coffee for the 8-cup. My summary (OK, long summary...) at CoffeeGeek details my approach to the unit and prep: [url]http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/vacpots/yamavacpots/BoldJava/5238[/url] ([url]http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/vacpots/yamavacpots/BoldJava/5238[/url])
After re-reading your summary, I may have figured out the problem:
"Note: If you have a successful partial-pot routine, please respond via the 'write' at the bottom -- few have succeeded with less than a full pot."
Our standard morning coffee is eight cups in the Technivorm, which is 32 ounces. I think my vac pot problems started when trying to do only 5 or 6 cups in my Yama 8 cup. I probably messed up when I bought the larger size.
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...
"Note: If you have a successful partial-pot routine, please respond via the 'write' at the bottom -- few have succeeded with less than a full pot."
Our standard morning coffee is eight cups in the Technivorm, which is 32 ounces. I think my vac pot problems started when trying to do only 5 or 6 cups in my Yama 8 cup. I probably messed up when I bought the larger size.
I have always been less than successful with fewer than 8 cups in the larger unit. I always use the 5-cup when we want 20-22 oz.
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...
"Note: If you have a successful partial-pot routine, please respond via the 'write' at the bottom -- few have succeeded with less than a full pot."
Our standard morning coffee is eight cups in the Technivorm, which is 32 ounces. I think my vac pot problems started when trying to do only 5 or 6 cups in my Yama 8 cup. I probably messed up when I bought the larger size.
Same here, which is why I only use the Yama 5-cup when I have a guest or two to help drink the bean juice. But wouldn't 32oz. be a good/safe volume for the Yama 8-cup?
I have always been less than successful with fewer than 8 cups in the larger unit. I always use the 5-cup when we want 20-22 oz.
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I have always been less than successful with fewer than 8 cups in the larger unit. I always use the 5-cup when we want 20-22 oz.
Same here, which is why I only use the Yama 5-cup when I have a guest or two to help drink the bean juice. But wouldn't 32oz. be a good/safe volume for the Yama 8-cup?
In the Yama, "8 cups" is 40 ounces. I will try "7 cups" this afternoon (35 ounces) to see if I get acceptable results. Even if the coffee is VERY good, we simply can't drink more than 30 ounces for afternoon coffee. I prefer to fall asleep by 11:00 PM.
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...I prefer to fall asleep by 11:00 PM.
I can manage one cup after dinner. Two? I can still fall asleep without difficulty but I have less restful sleep and do wake up during the night.
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...I prefer to fall asleep by 11:00 PM.
I can manage one cup after dinner. Two? I can still fall asleep without difficulty but I have less restful sleep and do wake up during the night.
With my guilty conscience, I can only manage one latte, no later than 3pm. ;)
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...
With my guilty conscience, I can only manage one latte, no later than 3pm. ;)
Difference in theology <wide grin and wink for the bro'>.
B|Romans
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I can rate today's vac pot a STRONG success!! ::) We had some Java Estate Blawan from the Excellent Cup - great job, Peter!
I decided to err on the high side, and the prior numbers made the coffee too strong - next time I'll make it lighter (see below). I guess the key thing I learned is to not make less than 35 ounces in my Yama:
Yama water coffee
"cups" grams grams| 7.0 993 51 |
| 7.5 1064 54 |
| 8.0 1135 57 |
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I guess the key thing I learned is to not make less than 35 ounces in my Yama:
No doubt you noticed how far from the bottom of the lower unit the siphon tube from the top unit reaches. In my 5-cup it's at least 3/8". It's commonly thought that this gap was designed to never let the pot boil dry, but all this water remaining in the lower unit really weakens the coffee once the coffee up north goes south; you could say it makes the flavor 'go south' too. No offense to you Southerners. :)
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I never seemed to have trouble making just 5 cups in the Yama 8. I did measure the markings, 5, 6, 7, & 8 and found out that they are linearly spaced up the side of the base, but since the base is round and not straight the increments are not equal in volume. I always just used the Yama scoop to measure the coffee and put in 8 scoops for 8 cups and it worked out. I did eventually weigh the coffee, but more to track how much I was using and not for measuring.
I wouldn't recommend going below the lowest marking on the pot.
Chris, I am curious. Do my water measurements in this post (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=4246.msg265416#msg265416) match up with yours?
I did not use the Yama scoop, since I always weigh my coffee.
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I've got a cafetino balance brewer (an original belgian), and after a few years of monkeying around with it every now and then, and lackluster results, finally decided to figure it out. First step, collected some empirical data. Now, I need a little help how to fine tune this, please? :D The primary goal is to make the coffee taste good, and secondary is to find a way to make it taste decent when left to be automatic as much as possible.
1. Brew temp is 206F - that's hotter than I usually brew my pourovers (195-203); this variable is out of my control.. any comments?
2. Its capacity is 1L; that's too much for me, so I'm doing 500ml instead. This results in rather.. awful coffee, especially when using the 6/100 ratio. I believe the issue is that not all the water makes it from the primary container to the brewing side, and is probably worsened at half capacity? Should I up dose to work with this?
3. I've found that if I keep the flame going, nearly all the water makes it to the brew cup (and it appears to be 20% more in volume vs. automatic! going to try to measure by weight next time) - now, I can see where this would be "a bad idea" with glass brewers, but mine is stainless steel.. still bad? I'm thinking steel pan on gas stove here. Only issue I can see would be possible scalding on drawback
Timewise, here's what I've learned, when I let it run its own course (remember, this is an automatic balance brewer)
-- it takes about 30 seconds when left alone for 500ml to make it from one chamber to the brew cup
-- it takes about 60-75 seconds for nearly all the water to make it from the heating chamber to the brew cup (based on sound, if I keep the flame active and not auto-doused)
-- once the flame douses, there's a 5s-ish pause
-- drawback takes anywhere from 30-75s, depending on bean, using the same grind; having testing 5 beans, 3 C roasts and 2 FC roasts, the C roasts have the 30s drawback, while the 2 FC roasts were 60s and 75s respectively; the FC beans would make a "pop" sound just before drawback, I'm thinking stronger vacuum from more fines in clogging the filter...
The grind used for tests was "vacpot" setting, which is one step before the finest "espresso" setting. It looks like a very fine drip grind.
Given the higher temp, I don't think this thing will do well with naturals, and should be relegated to only very light roasts to mitigate some of the brightness :o ? Ah, the gesha-only brewer ;D
I'll try the espresso grind setting next time, but, it might clog the metal filter in this thing (brass + palladium coating I think).
Comments, suggestions, chastisings?
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Jano,
As you know I don't have a cafetino, but I would coarsen up the grind, and try it at full capacity.
Awful coffee in what way? Bitter/overextracted, watery/underextracted (which I doubt due to the fine grind), etc.
JW
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Okay, I'll try a full brew with a coarser grind.
Not sure how to diagnose/describe the coffee this morning. It was neither bitter nor sour, not watery, not sweet, just.. bland, no flavor. Monochromatic. Even when it cooled. The same beans all tasted awesome brewed other methods.
Hopefully tomorrow's brew will allow me to hone in on some flavor to diagnose this.
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Well that was easy, full capacity led to great results. I hate physics sometimes, JW's recommendations fixed the brew temp issue:
- starting brew temp was 198F, then went up to 203F by the time it was full
- 1m, 40s ish for the water to move into the brewing cup
- 20s or so of no movement
- ~2m drawback (1'53"); the first minute was 3/4 of the fluid, last minute it decided to take its time
- finish temp was 203F
Boy I'm really enjoying this right now (Cammie's roast of Honduras la Gloria), that is tasty. Looks like I need to get myself a small vacpot now, this is good but too much brew! 2 cup versions look ideal.
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Yama 5 cup yields 22 of brewed coffee. Grab one.
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I wasn't letting the grounds sit at all. I add the grounds, stir thoroughly, then set a timer for 2 minutes. If I can get the upper bowl temp to 200 degrees, I think everything would be great!
I can't see that there would be a significant difference between 195 and 200, as far as the results go.
No surprise, but Peter is 100% correct. After having a few "boring" vac pots, the culprit was too much heat. I now add the top bowl when the water is at 195 (instead of 198). The last two vac pots were easily of the best so far.
I add the grounds after half of the water has moved up top. Then they sit for 30 seconds before stirring. I let them steep for 1 1/2 minutes more. Then turn off the heat, and give a final stir, and remove from the stove to watch.
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Keep doing what works for you...Congrats and welcome to the VP club.
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I simply love the vac pot - make one EVERY day. I am purchasing the Yama 5 cup, so I can make a vac pot when making coffee for only me. Also for when I want to try two different coffees in the morning.
Do I need a different glass rod, or does the same size work for the Yama 8 cup and 5 cup models?
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If your rod works in the 8 cup, it fits the 5 cup if the top hasn't been reengineered.
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I simply love the vac pot - make one EVERY day. I am purchasing the Yama 5 cup, so I can make a vac pot when making coffee for only me. Also for when I want to try two different coffees in the morning.
Do I need a different glass rod, or does the same size work for the Yama 8 cup and 5 cup models?
You may find that the Yama 5 doesn't do as well for single cups, unless that single cup is pretty big. I found that the amount of water remaining the the bottom (probably designed for safety, so it doesn't boil dry) during the brewing, dilutes the brew when the coffee goes from the upper globe back to the bottom. I generally make ~20oz. w/ mine, but don't know where the lower limit is before the dilution factor takes over.
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You may find that the Yama 5 doesn't do as well for single cups, unless that single cup is pretty big. I found that the amount of water remaining the the bottom (probably designed for safety, so it doesn't boil dry) during the brewing, dilutes the brew when the coffee goes from the upper globe back to the bottom. I generally make ~20oz. w/ mine, but don't know where the lower limit is before the dilution factor takes over.
I would normally make two 10 ounce cups for my morning coffee. It sounds like the Yama 5 should work nicely.
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I don't find a dilution issue at all with my 5-cup. Think about an Americano. One shot and 4-6 ounces of 200* water. Same principle at play just so long as you count total water: grams of coffee ratio.
B|Java
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Dipping my toes in the vacpot pool, took advantage of the Bodum and JC Penney's divorce resulting
in 70% reduction of retail pricing. I just purchased the newest iterration of the Bodum Santos, renamed the
Bodum Pebo. At least that's what I have been able to find. I am interested in anyone's reviews of the Santos/Pebo,
and if you have switched out the plastic filter for a glass rod, and if yes, what make and or model of glass rod
My arsenal of brewing equipment continues to grow. I was so stoked about the quality of the cup from a travelling roadshow
last Christmas that BJava did for a Yama 5 cup, that this has been on the short list of next purchases. Getting it at a reduced
price just turned out to be icing on the cake.
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I saw the Pebo too... $25, what a bargain... and I popped out their spring-loaded filter to look at the neck of the upper globe. It would be hard to say just by looking, but my guess is that a glass rod would work fine. That said, it won't hurt to use it as is and get a feel for it the way it's designed, and then try a rod.
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Dipping my toes in the vacpot pool, took advantage of the Bodum and JC Penney's divorce resulting
in 70% reduction of retail pricing. I just purchased the newest iterration of the Bodum Santos, renamed the
Bodum Pebo. At least that's what I have been able to find. I am interested in anyone's reviews of the Santos/Pebo,
and if you have switched out the plastic filter for a glass rod, and if yes, what make and or model of glass rod.
I'm sure Peter and B|Java will answer all your questions. I have enjoyed a vac pot EVERY day since they got my issues resolved (except when traveling). The coffee from both the Yama 5 cup / 8 cup rarely disappoints. When it does, it is because I messed up - let the temps get too high.
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I'm sure Peter and B|Java will answer all your questions. I have enjoyed a vac pot EVERY day since they got my issues resolved (except when traveling). The coffee from both the Yama 5 cup / 8 cup rarely disappoints. When it does, it is because I messed up, let the temps get too high.
No, Rich asked me yesterday and I suggested he post back here. I have never used a Bodum vacpot. I grabbed two off JCP but will be eBay'ing them when the current glut thins so I don't want to run a pot of coffee thru it. After lunch I will open one up and see how the variety of rods fit.
B|Java
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Ok ! That is why when I checked JCP there were no vacpots left for sale. :(
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The Pebo makes great coffee, but it's missing the clarity I'm looking for. I have a cloth filter assembly on the way. I hope it eliminates the small amount of fines the plastic filter lets through.
I'm also working on a stand, so I can use a butane burner. It needs some work.
(http://i.imgur.com/BuoL5hs.jpg)
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I'm planning on storing the cloth filter like my nel drip (in a bag stored in the fridge), but wanted to get the general storing procedure from some of you guys. BTW, no fines in the bottom of the cup using the cloth filter, success.
So how do you store your cloth filter and do you take it off the assembly when storing it?
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I prefer the cory rod. I believe it results in superior flavor in the cup. However if you stick with the cloth filter there is nothing wrong with leaving the filter on the assembly.
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I'm planning on storing the cloth filter like my nel drip (in a bag stored in the fridge), but wanted to get the general storing procedure from some of you guys. . .
Like Jim, I use the glass rods. I think I used the cloth for two cycles and tossed it. Your refrig approach is the most common approach I read from those who use cloth.
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I have a few cloths. It was a noticeable improvement from the plastic filter. I'll have to revisit the glass filter option when I'm on my last cloth filter. Thanks!
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I'm sure Peter and B|Java will answer all your questions. I have enjoyed a vac pot EVERY day since they got my issues resolved (except when traveling). The coffee from both the Yama 5 cup / 8 cup rarely disappoints. When it does, it is because I messed up, let the temps get too high.
No, Rich asked me yesterday and I suggested he post back here. I have never used a Bodum vacpot. I grabbed two off JCP but will be eBay'ing them when the current glut thins so I don't want to run a pot of coffee thru it. After lunch I will open one up and see how the variety of rods fit.
B|Java
Well, inquiring minds want to know. Were you able to test fit your inventory of glass rods?
Was there one you felt was a better fit for the Pebo? Do you have enough of an inventory to sell one or two?
Buehler? Buehler?
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... After lunch I will open one up and see how the variety of rods fit.
B|Java
Well, inquiring minds want to know. Were you able to test fit your inventory of glass rods?
Was there one you felt was a better fit for the Pebo? Do you have enough of an inventory to sell one or two?
Buehler? Buehler?
Long lunch, what can I tell you. Retirement is a leisurely approach to food.
Thanks for reminder.
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I attempted the Yama last weekend but I got a bitter cup. So, it looks like I need to refine my technique some more.
I measured the temp of the water up top and it was around 204F but the water seemed to take longer to be pulled south. I may try with the cloth filter instead of the glass rod to see if it changes anything.
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Wow - I never saw my water above 195 in the top bowl before. I'm pretty sure the rare "off" vac pots I've had occur when I let the water get too hot.
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I use around 198.* Best is 195-205.*
http://www.thecoffeefaq.com/1thebasics.html (http://www.thecoffeefaq.com/1thebasics.html)
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So, in these two attempts I tried two different methods to get the water to top and get it to the right temperature. Turning down the heat gradually to lower the speed at which it traveled upward and letting it move upward and letting it coast down in temperature. I wanted to hover around the 205 according to the thermometer when the flame was set just low enough to maintain the pressure.
How do you control the temperature in a vac pot?
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Not sure that "control" applies here - vac pots are less technical and more touchy feely ...
I followed B|Java's advice - turn down the heat after adding the top bowl. I start with the heat at about 60%, add the top bowl when water in the lower bowl hits 195. Then I reduce the flame to about 30%, just enough to keep things moving.
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Stirring and breaking the crust helps keep temps down, and greater flame for increasing temp. As mentioned before, starting temp when adding the funnel is important. I have a 2 cup kono, and it is quite stressful keeping a constant temp.
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Looks like I was waiting too long before attaching the top. I will have to give that a shot.
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Well, inquiring minds want to know. Were you able to test fit your inventory of glass rods?
Was there one you felt was a better fit for the Pebo? Do you have enough of an inventory to sell one or two?
Buehler? Buehler?
Rich, I busted into a box. The Corning rods do not fit. Doesn't sit right. The New Cory does fit but I only have one. Let me check the basement to see if I have some standard Corys squirreled away.
Dave
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Broke out the Bodum Pebo for use this morning as well as Christmas morning.
Spent some time reading back through this thread and some of the included links, so I felt
prepared to tackle the task. 34 ounce size vacpot. Used two of our travel mugs to determine
the water size needed, weighed and adjusted amount of coffee accordingly. Waited until
bottom globe reached 195*, placed top globe on and lowered heat from 6.5/10 to 5/10. Water slowly
rose to top globe, but then unexpectedly emptied from top globe back to the bottom globe. I assume
loss of temperature at burner to be the culprit. Next attempt left burner at 7 until the 90% of the bottom globe had
traveled north, then for an additional minute, then lowered to 5, put ground coffee into top globe,
started a 3 minute timer, and slowly paddled coffee to moisten all the ground coffee. 2 minutes later,
removed the vacpot from the burner and 50 seconds later, the top globe had been emptied of liquid.
Using the "new" Cory rod (5.75") purchased on Ebay a few weeks back rather then Pebo filter. Significant amount
of grounds at the end of the cup. An adjustment is needed to the Baratza Vario I am afraid. But the cup of coffee
both mornings was sublime. Really fantastic. Less stressful this morning then Christmas morning when I
was still reading and trying to work thorough all the necessary steps. Not sure this can be an every morning
process, but it will be in the rotation for weekend mornings along with the 10 cup Espro. Thanks to all who have
contributed to this thread, it was very helpful and appreciated.
Now how to adjust the Vario to grind coarser? Was it the 2.0mm screw or the 2.5mm screw? More reading and
researching will need to be done.
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Using the "new" Cory rod (5.75") purchased on Ebay a few weeks back rather then Pebo filter...
Rich, a New Cory rod is 6.25." Does yours say "New" and really measure 5.75"?
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Rich,
Using a cory rod will leave "some" residue in the cup.... Just pitch the last sip. IMHO the great cup is worth a bit of residue. Try the courser ground but you won't get all the residue out with the "right" grind. Vac pot is my favorite. The boss. Patti, would not have anything but a vac pot in the morning. I use an 8 cup Yama. I've broke several over the years and always have a spare ready to go!! have fun, Jim
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Using the "new" Cory rod (5.75") purchased on Ebay a few weeks back rather then Pebo filter...
Rich, a New Cory rod is 6.25." Does yours say "New" and really measure 5.75"?
Yep, my mistake. I bought this one from an Ebay seller and believe it to be an original Cory Rod rather then a "new" Cory Rod.
And it cost me more then the $.60 listed on the box!!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RBc9a2xIkzTroRjmeSMPsfPQ3jAEDUST3vukvCqlJF4=w276-h207-p-no)
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A.M. vacpot, 8 cup Yama, Corning glass rod, gas stove
Some notes:
º Water begins migrating north at 104º and is the reason I don't add coffee until top reservoir reaches 202.º
º Temp at 171º when all water had migrated north.
º Waited until top water had reached 200º.
º Reservoir temp can be controlled with gas flame, lower and higher.
º Temp achieved 202º on lowest gas setting and remained steady during 2:15 steep.
º Water remained at 201º for close to a minute, off burner.
º Water migrated south for 2 min. As volume decreased in upper globe, temp dropped more quickly. When almost 7/8 empty, water dropped below 190.º
Great Anesi Yemen cup. High note fruits/florals, very aromatic, squeaky clean.