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This is the thread to post any questions, tips, or ticks for improving roasts using the Stir Crazy/ Convection Oven roasters. I also thought it would be cool to post the roasting profiles that you use when roasting with a SC/TO setup.
GCBC SC/TO Threads:
John F's SC/TO Thread (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3972.0)
SC/CO Roaster Information (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=1000.0)
Turbo Oven Life Expectancy (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=4813.0)
Stir Crazy Power Cord (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3899.0)
SC/CO Thermometer Options (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=1212.0)
SC/CO Mods/Construction (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=2774.0)
Other SC/TO Links:
Constructing a SC/TO 1 (http://turbocrazy.atspace.com/index_files/project.htm)
Constructing a SC/TO 2 (http://www.fullofflavor.net/Stir Crazy/)
peter's Nice Roaster Setup (http://peter4jc.googlepages.com/)
Stir-Crazy vs. Salton UFO Popper (CoffeeGeek) (http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/236604)
GCC SC/TO Forum (http://greencoffee.coop/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&Itemid=40&func=showcat&catid=36)
Sweet Maria's Homeroast on the SC/TO (http://homeroast.pbwiki.com/SCTO)
Buy a Pre-made SC/TO Roaster (http://www.uroastem.com/cooling-pan.html#roaster)
If you have anymore links, post them and I will add them to this first post.
I'll get us started as I have a couple of questions.
Someone recently mentioned that they used different sized spacer rings for roasting different types of coffees. Is this a common practice? How to you choose the spacer ring height for each coffee? Trial and error?
A friend of mine also gave me Galloping Gourmet clone convection oven top. He had broke the bottom casserole dish. The temperature dial is messed up. The heating element will come on but only when physically hold the knob to it's highest position with some pressure. If you take you finger off the knob the blower continues to run but the heating element kicks off. What I would like to do is bypass the temp dial and add a toggle switch that would allow me to manually turn the heating element on and off. Can anyone give me some advice on where to install the switch? Could I just disconnect the wiring going to the dial and then connect that wiring to a toggle switch? I can, and may have to, open the unit up to take some pics.
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Here a nice looking profile that peter posted in another thread:
I use a SC/CO. Bottom heat rarely if ever used.
Beans go in the roaster. Heat is on.
Beans hit 300?, kept there for 3-4 min.k, beans are tan before going further.
Heat is back on, beans hit 350?, kept there or inching up for 2-3 min to 360?.
Heat is back on 'til 1st, beans go through 1st lazily to keep them from taking on heat and racing right from 1st to 2nd.
1st ends, temps hold or sloooowly rise.
If FC or beyond is the target, heat goes back on.
That's my profile. I haven't found the need to vary it much for various beans. When I'm roasting samples for the Cabal to cup I try to be careful and keep the profile consistent to remove as many variables as I can, so posting a profile for each sample would be redundant. So look at that profile, understand that it happens sorta kinda like that, and ask yourself 'even if it was exactly that profile, is that the type of information that will help me?' With your roaster, and ambient temps, and all, it may be a starting point.
My basic profile is to add beans and set the temp to ~400. At the end of about 4 minutes the temp should be at about 250-260*F. After 4 minutes I crank the temp to the max, ramping the temp up to 360*F, usually at about the 7 minute mark. When temps hit 360* I cut the heat back and let the beans roast at 360-370* for about 3 minutes and then kick the heat back on high. This usually puts first crack at about 11:30 - 12 minutes. If I am trying for a light roast I will let the heat continue to rise and after the temp hits 415-425* I cut the heat back and let the beans finish the last minute or so at a lower temp, usually 40-410*.
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Thanks for posting this,
The weather is on the warm side here in New Jersey..think I'm going to fire up my TO and roast some coffee....need to give the Behmor a rest anyway.
Thanks.
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Shaft Mod
When the threads melt, or get old and brittle and snap off, here's a cheap and easy fix that maintains the proper alignment of the motor/shaft/stirring arms.
Most good hardware stores and Home Depot-type places, in their specialty hardware section carry something known as a hanger bolt. It's a small rod with threads on both ends; one end has wood screws, the other machine screw threads. Find the hanger bolt that has 1/4-20 machine screw threads on the one end. Grind down the plastic threads on the SC shaft until flush. Drill a hole down the center of the shaft, just smaller than the wood screw threads on the hanger bolt, just slightly deeper than those threads are long. Screw the hanger bolt into the shaft, so that only 1/2" of the machine screw threads are protruding.
You'll now have the original shaft with new metal threads, rendering it nearly indestructible.
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Cool mod peter. I have a stock SC sitting in a closet at home. I may try this method.
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Question about my UFO/TO project.
I spent a drizzly morning combing through wet and nasty bits at the salvage yard and the narrowest strip of still bendable aluminum I could find was 3". Has anyone used this for a spacer? Will it keep the roaster from getting hot enough?
I see that Peter uses 1".
Tex recommended 2".
Springform pans are usually 3".
What say you????
Should I pursue finding a narrower bit????
Susan
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...at the salvage yard and the narrowest strip of still bendable aluminum I could find was 3"...
Find the nearest Ace Hardware store, Susan. They carry all sort of metal goodies - pick up a 1/16" x 2" x 4' piece of aluminum bar stock (~$6). They'll also have the 6 mm wing-nut you'll need, plus the nuts & bolts for holding the chaff ejector open (I use a short spring to keep the chute open - it slips over the screw).
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...at the salvage yard and the narrowest strip of still bendable aluminum I could find was 3"...
Find the nearest Ace Hardware store, Susan. They carry all sort of metal goodies - pick up a 1/16" x 2" x 4' piece of aluminum bar stock (~$6). They'll also have the 6 mm wing-nut you'll need, plus the nuts & bolts for holding the chaff ejector open (I use a short spring to keep the chute open - it slips over the screw).
Okay, okay, okay.....
back out into the rain....
Yucko...
Susan
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Aluminum yardsticks are a good (inexpensive) way to go.
I strongly suggest mounting the spacer to your SC so that the ends overlap, but spring shut. That way you get the choice of having it open to let chaff and heat out, but also can close it to keep heat in. Just make sure you check the direction of the TO circulation so that the spacer/chaff ejector opens the right way to scoop the chaff out when open.
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Aluminum yardsticks are a good (inexpensive) way to go.
which must mean that 36" is long enough to make the circumference ....
hmmmmm....
okay then....
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anyone have experience roasting 4-6oz in the SC/TO set up? I'm considering building one to use as a sample roaster and most likely would use 4-8oz batches. Also, one of the links on the original post show the heater in the SC disconnected. I'm thinking to keep the heater connected and maybe put it on a dimmer or switch in case additional heat is needed, especially with high grown centrals. Does the TO provide enough heat to get the beans on a nice ramp on it's own?? Thanks everyone.
Ben
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With the right arms, and the bottom heat switched off, you can do a half ounce if you want. Because of how my thermo-probe works, it makes it harder to measure temps with small roasts, but the set-up is flexible enough to do whatever you want.
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The biggest problem when going to a really small batch is proper agitation. As peter said, with the right arms you can direct the beans toward the center which allows for similar bean-to-bean contact and agitation that you get when roasting more. Without any mods, tipping is likely. I also find that I have to start out at lower oven power, and wait about 6 minutes before ramping up, on very small batches (2 oz).
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Thanks for the suggestions Peter and BW.
I built a simple control box type thingy with some spare electrical parts I had laying around. I still have to mod the arms of the turbo crazy (today) and figure out a thermocouple placement. The turbo crazy was ordered from the manufacturer and hopefully will be here this week. I'll post pics/comments later today.
Anyone try to bring the thermocouple up from the bottom of the stir crazy? I'm thinking of bringing it up from below about an inch from the center spindle and having it 90 keeping it shallow. The stir arms could be bent up slightly (notched) at that location to pass over the thermocouple. Just thinking outloud.
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If your temp probe is permanently mounted in the SC, it will be a pain to dump.
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Anyone try to bring the thermocouple up from the bottom of the stir crazy? I'm thinking of bringing it up from below about an inch from the center spindle and having it 90 keeping it shallow. The stir arms could be bent up slightly (notched) at that location to pass over the thermocouple. Just thinking outloud.
I did something like this before, using a beaded thermocouple wire, but peter is right, it makes it a PITA to dump. I ran mine through a (12 ga.?) copper tube drilled through the side and run along the bottom, where it bent up and through about 1/2 way across.
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I had mine like that for a while too; running through a tube into the bean mass, so I could pull it out to dump and then thread it back in to roast. But it's difficult to get the same position each time, so the temps would vary.
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Here's the start. Stir arm mods and thermocouple placement next.
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Now there's a guy with some extra time on his hands.
What are all those switches for?
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Now there's a guy with some extra time on his hands.
What are all those switches for?
The switch above the meter is the main, one outlet is always hot for some type of lamp should I ever get one, the other three run off the bottom switches. I had all this stuff in my garage collecting dust. Another switch is in the works that will drop a huge maple syrup bomb on WI.
I like the portablilty of it. I made the two cords coming from the stir crazy long enough to dump the coffee without unplugging. The space to the right where thre greens are is going to have a thingmo to put the hot turbo oven on. Now for the stirrer.... ???
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Now there's a guy with some extra time on his hands.
What are all those switches for?
four outlets and 3 switches... one switch for two outlets (SC motor and TO fan) one switch for SC heat and one for TO heat.???
Am I right?!?!? do I win a prize?!?!? or am I just a wiener?? :-X
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Now there's a guy with some extra time on his hands.
What are all those switches for?
four outlets and 3 switches... one switch for two outlets (SC motor and TO fan) one switch for SC heat and one for TO heat.???
Am I right?!?!? do I win a prize?!?!? or am I just a wiener?? :-X
Pretty close.
SC motor on a switch, need to add TO fan to this though- I don't have the TO yet and I'm not familiar with it. If it has seperate fan and heat then I'll combine the fan with the SC motor.
SC heat on a switch
TO heat on a switch
but yeah, pretty spot on. I'll have to find a prize for you.
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Am I right?!?!? do I win a prize?!?!? or am I just a wiener?? :-X
There's another guy with too much time on his hands. :-\
The TO will have its power run through a timer. So if you leave it wired stock, you may as well turn it off with the timer dial.
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Am I right?!?!? do I win a prize?!?!? or am I just a wiener?? :-X
There's another guy with too much time on his hands. :-\
The TO will have its power run through a timer. So if you leave it wired stock, you may as well turn it off with the timer dial.
Good point. I'll see how things go when it arrives.
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Am I right?!?!? do I win a prize?!?!? or am I just a wiener?? :-X
There's another guy with too much time on his hands. :-\
The TO will have its power run through a timer. So if you leave it wired stock, you may as well turn it off with the timer dial.
Good point. I'll see how things go when it arrives.
Well separating the fan and heat on the TO means modding and the only reason I would recommend it is if you want to PID the heat.. I like the fact that I can turn off my heat and the fan stays on while I dump the beans out of the SC.... I still have issues with getting the PID to behave but its coming along. I did leave the timer hooked to the heat and the handle disconnect tied to the heat but the fan is on when the power is plugged in
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Am I right?!?!? do I win a prize?!?!? or am I just a wiener?? :-X
There's another guy with too much time on his hands. :-\
The TO will have its power run through a timer. So if you leave it wired stock, you may as well turn it off with the timer dial.
Good point. I'll see how things go when it arrives.
Well separating the fan and heat on the TO means modding and the only reason I would recommend it is if you want to PID the heat.. I like the fact that I can turn off my heat and the fan stays on while I dump the beans out of the SC.... I still have issues with getting the PID to behave but its coming along. I did leave the timer hooked to the heat and the handle disconnect tied to the heat but the fan is on when the power is plugged in
I don't think I'll pid the heat, maybe in the future. My datalogger has a serial output and I'm going to log roasts on my laptop. If I pid anything it will be the Ambex, I run that all the time.
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I recommend focussing on the smells and sounds over extensive instrument readings. Even variables such as barometric pressure and humidity can affect your roasting, and you cannot measure everything. It is nice to have a good handle on the temperature and the time, but I think being able to smell the roast development will buy you as much or more as PID'ing your device.
I didn't used to be of this school, but over the past three years I have gone more and more to the paradigm that roasting has at least as much of an 'art' component as a 'science' component.
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I recommend focussing on the smells and sounds over extensive instrument readings. Even variables such as barometric pressure and humidity can affect your roasting, and you cannot measure everything. It is nice to have a good handle on the temperature and the time, but I think being able to smell the roast development will buy you as much or more as PID'ing your device.
I didn't used to be of this school, but over the past three years I have gone more and more to the paradigm that roasting has at least as much of an 'art' component as a 'science' component.
I'm probably going to run the roaster without a probe to get to know how it works. Eventually I'm going to need temp but I have no idea about how this roaster is going to work so i guess I'll just crank er up and see what happens :)
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My project is moving along....slowly....
David Mankin sent me the security bit I needed to take the bottom off of the Salton popper.
Took half a minute to get it open.
Here's the inside of the bottom.
I have a toggle switch I want to add the the heater wires because I have read that small batches sometimes require/benefit from the extra heat.
And, this model doesn't seem to have the plastic harness that the wires connect through, so....
I'm wondering if anyone can suss out from the picture which wires go where.
Clearly the two blacks coming in from the southeast are the juice. Two small red wires go into northmost part the silver circular bit in the middle. (The on off switch is in the housing just beyond that, by the way)
And then three wires (red, white, black) go into the housing there at the southwest.
So....do I need to do another layer of removal to figure out what goes where? Looks like it would be simple enough to remove the circular bit (obviously I don't quite know what that is), and even the next layer of the inner plastic housing.
Did anyone understand a word of this?
Sorry
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And, here's how it's looking with the yardstick and the silicone tubing settled on the top....well, not quite settled, the circle still is resisting being completely congruent with the slot I want it fitted into, but....I'm assuming it will adapt (or I'll mess with it more)....later
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If you can find the thermostat, that's a good place to splice in the switch. On a SC, the power coming in goes to the thermostat.
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If you can find the thermostat, that's a good place to splice in the switch. On a SC, the power coming in goes to the thermostat.
Okay, so that means I'm gonna have to take off another layer of "skin"....
Back later.
Susan
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If you can find the thermostat, that's a good place to splice in the switch. On a SC, the power coming in goes to the thermostat.
Okay, so that means I'm gonna have to take off another layer of "skin"....
Back later.
Susan
You should be able to access the thermostat without any more un-doing.
There should be a wire that travels to a round thingy about the diameter of a nickel. It will have the quick disconnect type electrical connection. That's the thermostat that Peter is referring to. One wire goes in and the other leaves to the heater.
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Okay, I'm really embarassed here, but will someone look at my picture -- a few posts back -- and tell me if that silver "thing" in the very middle of the bottom (which is rather larger than a nickel) is the thermostat I'm looking for....
And don't tell anyone...... :-[ :-[ :-[
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You should be able to access the thermostat without any more un-doing.
There should be a wire that travels to a round thingy about the diameter of a nickel. It will have the quick disconnect type electrical connection. That's the thermostat that Peter is referring to. One wire goes in and the other leaves to the heater.
Susan has a Salton bottom unit, and will be different than the SC.
That's what you get for listening to Tex, Susan. ;)
By the looks of it, you'll move the motor out of the way and undo those 4 nuts so that that silver panel can come off.
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That's what you get for listening to Tex, Susan. ;)
Oh.....you have no idea...... ;D
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Okay.....I'm in.....
Now I'm on terra firma again......
I'm assuming that now I can just take the two wires to and from the thermostat (which I now recognize for what it is) and put the wires from the toggle switch in it's place in the sequence....
Right?
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The black wire going from the white ceramic-looking terminal to the pink thermostat... take it off at the white thing. Attach that end to the switch. Then run a wire from the other side of the switch to the white thing.
Nice pixors BTW.
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Ah, so the thermostat stays in the loop, but the switch goes between it and the heater....??
Boy oh boy.....
Slow learner here....
Thanks
Susan
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Yes, the T-stat stays in, if only as a safety feature.
You can switch before or after the T-stat. It's just easier to take the wire off the white terminal block, than it is to put the switch between the T-stat and the heating element.
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That's what you get for listening to Tex, Susan. ;)
No one ever got into trouble for listening to me.
Doing what I say is another matter entirely!
>:D
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Okay, got it. I just drilled a hole in the outer shell so I can put the on-off switch (to the popper heater) just to the left of the power on off switch.
Now, one more question. Any reason I have to go and find "spades" for the wiring, or can I just twist wires together and put electrical tape over the junctions.....????
Susan
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That's what you get for listening to Tex, Susan. ;)
No one ever got into trouble for listening to me.
Doing what I say is another matter entirely!
>:D
[/size]
A distinction I have often forgotten to heed.......:-))))))
Susan
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Okay, got it. I just drilled a hole in the outer shell so I can put the on-off switch (to the popper heater) just to the left of the power on off switch.
Now, one more question. Any reason I have to go and find "spades" for the wiring, or can I just twist wires together and put electrical tape over the junctions.....????
Susan
Wire-nuts would be better.
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Susan,
From your earlier picture, your chaff ejection slot may be a bit too narrow. You won't know until you give it a try, but to my eyes, you'll need it to be wider.
If you do make it wider, there's a chance that beans will then try to creep out the slot as they are stirred. My solution was to make a little retaining wall at the slot's opening - just a half inch tall - that kept the beans in, but allowed the chaff out. Simple.
Looks like you're well on your way to your first UFO/TO roast.
I've prepared a quick how-to document. I'll see if it will work here. If not, I'll send it to you.
Great work on this project, Susan - as always! ;D
David
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Wire-nuts would be better.
And if you wanted to keep it clean, crimping spades or rings on the wires is preferable for attaching wires to terminals and switches, but not really necessary.
And just to keep your geekiness factor on the increase... If you have a Radio Shack or electronics store nearby, you may want to consider wiring a small indicator lamp into the circuit too. Having a little light to remind me when the bottom heat is on has saved plenty of roasts.
As far as the chaff ejector goes, it helps a lot to have the option of open or closed. You can use the tension of the spacer to stay closed and retain heat, and then prop it open during the roast to allow chaff and/or heat out.
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Thanks, David.
I won't be surprised if I don't have to drill another hole in that piece....
I had a hard time figuring out where to drill it, and won't be at all surprised if I don't go through a few more pieces before I find the right place.
Keep your eye on me....I need all the help I can get....
Susan
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Your roaster is coming along very nicely Susan, despite the apparent character flaws of some of your advisers.
Here's how I formed the ring so it acts as a chaff collector.
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Also Susan, unless your Turbo Oven spins air in the opposite direction of the others I've seen, you've got the ring exit flipped. It needs to exit in a clockwise direction.
YMMV
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Also Susan, unless your Turbo Oven spins air in the opposite direction of the others I've seen, you've got the ring exit flipped. It needs to exit in a clockwise direction.
YMMV
Mine turns counterclockwise.
Looks like yours is set up for a clockwise turn, right?
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Mine turns counterclockwise.
Looks like yours is set up for a clockwise turn, right?
Never mind!
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Tex,
Download the pdf file I posted a few posts back, please - in it, I mention to Susan that I have 2 Turbo Ovens - one runs clockwise - the other counter clockwise! Go figure.
I'd appreciate your comments and additions to this 'how to' document. Susan's never roasted this way before, and likely there are/will be others that might need/read it.
Cheers,
David
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Has the need for a copper cap been addressed in the (Susan Roaster) ?? scanning the posts I didn't see it... other than that it looks like a fine piece of tinkering you have their....
FWIW I had the opportunity to see peters design up close and it is in my to do list to adapt several of his ideas (especially the ability to open and close the aluminum ring) I really want to make stir rods like his but I only have plastic cloths hangers.... :-X well lets just say its a work in progress ;D
think about a hot place to put the TO when you are dumping the beans... best I have seen is the rack that may have been included in the bottom of the big glass (ButtWhiskers famous artery clogging mac and cheese bowl) (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=3972.msg58631#msg58631) that came with the TO
(http://peter4jc.googlepages.com/Pic012.JPG/Pic012-large.jpg)
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Unlike the StirCrazy, the UFO comes stock with a metal stirring axle. I have been running mine with nothing more than a 6mm wing nut for over 2 years w/o the need of a copper cap.
David
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Unlike the StirCrazy, the UFO comes stock with a metal stirring axle. I have been running mine with nothing more than a 6mm wind nut for over 2 years w/o the need of a copper cap.
David
Oh yeah, that's one of the advantages to using the Salton popper; no having to jury rig the axle to keep it from melting or coming up with a replacement when it eventually does melt.
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Unlike the StirCrazy, the UFO comes stock with a metal stirring axle. I have been running mine with nothing more than a 6mm wind nut for over 2 years w/o the need of a copper cap.
David
really?? I know my Sunbeam has the metal threads but its in a plastic shaft so I presumed the heat would get to the plastic and still use the copper cap... one of my tweaks will be to modify the slots in the copper cap so it twists side ways and stays on the stir rods when I dump... (like a BNC coax connectors on a flat screen TV)
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Hmmmm....dunno, but I have replaced the plastic top that came with the Salton popper with 2 fender washers and a 6mm wingnut....per my mentors....
Susan
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Say Tex - is that a picture of you in your profile icon? Who was that masked man? 8)
OK - it's actually a test of my new signature line. Here goes nothing.
David
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Say Tex - is that a picture of you in your profile icon? Who was that masked man? 8)
OK - it's actually a test of my new signature line. Here goes nothing.
David
Nah, it's a picture of Susan. Good likeness, right?
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Say Tex - is that a picture of you in your profile icon? Who was that masked man? 8)
OK - it's actually a test of my new signature line. Here goes nothing.
David
Nah, it's a picture of Susan. Good likeness, right?
Wait until you're 65....
See if you don't bawl your head off too....
Susan
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C'mon Susan - you've had plenty of time to put lipstick on that pig - show us the first roast!
(http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/37000/Lipstick-on-a-Pig-37282.jpg)
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Ah, well, all I got done today was to get the re-wiring finished. The switch to control the heater of the popper is installed and it works.....amazing !!!!
(The rest of the day was spent dealing with having the bathroom floor torn up.....not a pretty picture at all. Tomorrow will be more of the same.)
I'm still futzing about trying to get the spacer/ruler into a good circle, and wondering about a comment you made yesterday about whether having both the TO and the UFO heaters on at the same time will blow a breaker....
Don't worry....I'll keep you posted.
Susan
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Susan - great work
Tex - The 'Lipstick on the Pig' avatar is a KEEPER! Oink!! :wav:
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... wondering about a comment you made yesterday about whether having both the TO and the UFO heaters on at the same time will blow a breaker...
Simple to figure out - add up the wattage for both machines & divide by your house voltage.
ex: 1200 watts for a Turbo Oven + 900 watts for the Salton popper / by 120 volt house current
These examples would use 17.5 amps collectively, so you'd need a 20 amp circuit breaker.
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...Tex - The 'Lipstick on the Pig' avatar is a KEEPER! Oink!!
As my guru once told me, "You have to live this life, but you should not take it so seriously."
Aummmm...
(http://www.sanatansociety.org/beeld/gifs/gods_chapters_indra.gif)
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Your roaster is coming along very nicely Susan, despite the apparent character flaws of some of your advisers.
Here's how I formed the ring so it acts as a chaff collector.
Okay, Tex, I'm going back to work on this project now.
Two questions regarding your picture:
1. What did you use to cut the groove into the plastic trough? I'm guessing dremel.....?
2. What's in between the two ends of the bar that is covering the bolt? Do I remember some mention of a spring?
Your elder, and don'tcha ferget it.
Susan
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Okay, Tex, I'm going back to work on this project now.
Two questions regarding your picture:
1. What did you use to cut the groove into the plastic trough? I'm guessing dremel.....?
Whatever - a file or ?? It's just soft plastic.
2. What's in between the two ends of the bar that is covering the bolt? Do I remember some mention of a spring?
A soft spring, just to keep some tension on the ring while it rides in the groove. Also, I elongated the hole in the outside end of the ring (where the wing nut is). This lets the bolt slide in the hole, permitting the ring to float in the groove (makes for a perfect fit).
BTW: Did you figure out if the two heaters were OK on your circuit?
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I just went out and looked, and every circuit for this house is a 20 amp, so, I'm guessing as long as I'm not ironing (doing what??????? ;D ;D ;D) or some other heat-requiring operation at the same time, I should be okay.
I also just went and got another yardstick. The one I had been trying to make into a circle had gotten quite mutilated.....too many holes in the wrong places; nice bend in the wrong place; etc. etc. etc....
Back to the beginning.....
Susan
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Here's how I formed my ring. And the notch I cut to keep the ring flat.
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Aha......a slot for the bolt.....not just one hole.....
Cool....
More information all the time....
Eventually I WILL get it....
Promise...
Susan
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Why all that fartin' around?
A simple ring with a 1/4" overlap and you're done. ::)
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NOW you tell me????????????????
:o :o ??? ??? ::) ::)
;D ;D
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Why all that fartin' around?
Because coffee tastes better if it's flavored with an aromatic. >:D
A simple ring with a 1/4" overlap and you're done. ::)
The extra bends are there to act as a chaff collector. When the top is on it diverts the chaff down into a colander - makes for a happier wife when I roast on her patio.
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That explains everything. Abby the Shi-Tzu says I can let the chaff fly as long as I'm on time with the Purina.
But since I have an enclosed roasting cabinet downstairs, the chaff lands in a nice big pile anyway.
Bob, do you have your spacer ring attached to the bottom unit somehow?
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Chaff? they say?
Who'd notice.......????
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That explains everything. Abby the Shi-Tzu says I can let the chaff fly as long as I'm on time with the Purina.
But since I have an enclosed roasting cabinet downstairs, the chaff lands in a nice big pile anyway.
Bob, do you have your spacer ring attached to the bottom unit somehow?
If you're directing that toward me, it's either Tex or Robert. THX
Always helps to have the back story, doesn't it? I can roast on the patio because my fantastic wife - aka Mrs. Harmon, v2.7 - tolerates my foolish ways.
The groove around the edge of the UFO keeps the ring stable, and it just sits there - never had a problem.
With the TurboCrazy I had the ring pop-riveted to the lip of the bottom unit.
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My spacer ring is held in place with springs. (see photo... if it works). The ring has NEVER shifted or slipped in over 2 years.
David
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My spacer ring is held in place with springs. (see photo... if it works). The ring has NEVER shifted or slipped in over 2 years.
David
No, but it's butt ugly!
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My spacer ring is held in place with springs. (see photo... if it works). The ring has NEVER shifted or slipped in over 2 years.
David
No, but it's butt ugly!
... and 100% functional! :angel:
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... and as long as we're showing off our chaff mops,
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No, but it's butt ugly!
... and 100% functional! :angel:
That about describes my first wife's chest, but I wouldn't have dragged her out just to show her off to my friends. ;D
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:argue:
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When I was using the UFO/CO roaster I roasted strictly by weight, time, sound & color.
First, I like Full City or Full City Plus for espresso, and City Plus roast for all other methods of brewing coffee. For all roasts I found that 16 ozs of beans would get me to first crack in ~9 minutes at full power. After I had a rolling 1st I'd turn the roaster's dial back to 450?F and coast into second crack.
City Plus roast is about the best roast for drip and vac pot brewers. It brings out the varietal's flavor and is still dark enough to bring out some of the stronger base flavors. I judged this roast to be done by listening for the first outliers of 2nd, at which point I'd stop the heat and dump & cool the beans.
For Full City I'd ignore the outliers of 2nd and when it just started to sound busy, I'd stop the heat & dump the beans for cooling. For Full City Plus I'd again ignore the 2nd outliers and start timing as soon as 2nd got busy and let it go for 20 seconds, before stopping the roast.
Each roast has to be adjusted a bit because of variables that I don't fully understand. What I do know is that time is not absolute. Different beans take longer to get to 1st crack & 2nd crack. Some beans seem to all hit 1st & 2nd at about the same time, and then there are beans that never seem to have a definable start & finish to the different cracks.
Color seems to be the best indicator of roast levels. I've found that Sweet Maria's pictorial guide (http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasting-VisualGuideV2.html) works best for me. I use a white light LED lamp when I'm roasting in order to have consistent lighting from roast to roast. By comparing what I see in the pan to what I see on the guide I've been able to hit the roast I want pretty consistently.
So I'd say the UFO/CO roaster has been a good roaster for me. I've built them for friends and neighbors and helped online friends put theirs together. I've always told people interested in getting into the hobby to start with a homebuilt roaster rather than buying one. The money saved can be significant and I truly don't believe the ones you can buy perform any better than the UFO/CO or TurboCrazy roasters built for $100 or so.
That's my story & I'm sticking to it!
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City roast... I judged this roast to be done by listening for the first outliers of SC, at which point I'd stop the heat and dump & cool the beans.
For Full City I'd ignore the outliers of SC and when it just started to sound busy, I'd stop the heat & dump the beans for cooling. For Full City Plus I'd again ignore the SC outliers and start timing as soon as SC got busy and let it go for 20 seconds, before stopping the roast.
Not that we have any rules here at the Club, but so that we're at least somewhat on the same page, this is something that was agreed on a long time ago; Roast Levels/Names (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=1645.0) It makes it easier to discuss roasting, and not have to describe what is meant by the names of roast levels each time, if there's some common descriptors.
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City roast... I judged this roast to be done by listening for the first outliers of SC, at which point I'd stop the heat and dump & cool the beans.
For Full City I'd ignore the outliers of SC and when it just started to sound busy, I'd stop the heat & dump the beans for cooling. For Full City Plus I'd again ignore the SC outliers and start timing as soon as SC got busy and let it go for 20 seconds, before stopping the roast.
Not that we have any rules here at the Club, but so that we're at least somewhat on the same page, this is something that was agreed on a long time ago; Roast Levels/Names ([url]http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=1645.0[/url]) It makes it easier to discuss roasting, and not have to describe what is meant by the names of roast levels each time, if there's some common descriptors.
I've seen those descriptors and read SM's guide, neither of which takes outliers into account. I just don't consider those premature cracks to be true indicators of roast level. For instance, I just roasted a yirgacheffe that started into the outliers of second crack almost as soon as first crack finished. I wouldn't consider a roast stopped there to be anything but City roast, but by the standards set so rigidly here & elsewhere it would be considered to be a City plus at a minimum or even a Full City roast because second crack had started.
So, I use the extra descriptor of outliers to mark the areas between roast levels. I agree there are standards and for good reasons, but I don't hold to them so rigidly as others.
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I've seen those descriptors and read SM's guide, neither of which takes outliers into account. I just don't consider those premature cracks to be true indicators of roast level. For instance, I just roasted a yirgacheffe that started into the outliers of second crack almost as soon as first crack finished. I wouldn't consider a roast stopped there to be anything but City roast, but by the standards set so rigidly here & elsewhere it would be considered to be a City plus at a minimum or even a Full City roast because second crack had started.
So, I use the extra descriptor of outliers to mark the areas between roast levels. I agree there are standards and for good reasons, but I don't hold to them so rigidly as others.
That's bogus logic Robert.
If your roast is hot enough to be going into 2nd, even if they're only outliers signaling that 2nd is imminent, you're waaaaay past a City. All that tells you is that you poured too much heat into the bean going into, and during, 1st crack.
If you want to call a City roast a City roast, you have to be able to stop the roast at the temps it took to clear 1st. That Yirg you refer to... let's say for the sake of argument that you could start 1st at 405F and finish 1st at 420F. At that point it's a City roast(if the roast is ended then). If you pile so much heat into the bean mass driving into 1st and during 1st, there will be so much energy in the beans that by the time 1st is over you could well be into the low 430's. Just because that's where 1st crack ended has nothing to do with that being a City roast. IOW, internal bean temp is more relevant to roast level than sound.
Whatever happened to letting 1st end, having a slow ramp in temps over a 2-3min. period for flavor and body development, before getting any outliers of 2nd?
I don't mean this to come off like a lecture or sound condescending, please forgive me if it does. Nor do I wish to impugn your roasting skills or make mine to be 'all that.' This is all meant to be an attempt at a semblance of common ground.
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I've seen those descriptors and read SM's guide, neither of which takes outliers into account. I just don't consider those premature cracks to be true indicators of roast level. For instance, I just roasted a yirgacheffe that started into the outliers of second crack almost as soon as first crack finished. I wouldn't consider a roast stopped there to be anything but City roast, but by the standards set so rigidly here & elsewhere it would be considered to be a City plus at a minimum or even a Full City roast because second crack had started.
So, I use the extra descriptor of outliers to mark the areas between roast levels. I agree there are standards and for good reasons, but I don't hold to them so rigidly as others.
That's bogus logic Robert.
If your roast is hot enough to be going into 2nd, even if they're only outliers signaling that 2nd is imminent, you're waaaaay past a City. All that tells you is that you poured too much heat into the bean going into, and during, 1st crack.
If you want to call a City roast a City roast, you have to be able to stop the roast at the temps it took to clear 1st. That Yirg you refer to... let's say for the sake of argument that you could start 1st at 405F and finish 1st at 420F. At that point it's a City roast(if the roast is ended then). If you pile so much heat into the bean mass driving into 1st and during 1st, there will be so much energy in the beans that by the time 1st is over you could well be into the low 430's. Just because that's where 1st crack ended has nothing to do with that being a City roast.
Whatever happened to letting 1st end, having a slow ramp in temps over a 2-3min. period for flavor and body development, before getting any outliers of 2nd?
I don't mean this to come off like a lecture or sound condescending, please forgive me if it does. Nor do I wish to impugn your roasting skills or make mine to be 'all that.' This is all meant to be an attempt at a semblance of common ground.
No, I understand what you're saying about using temps to define roasts Peter. I played around with temps for a while with the UFO/CO & TurboCrazy, but I couldn't find a location in the 1-pound bean mass that gave me a reliable match between bean mass temps and sound/color/bean appearance. Since temps seemed to be such a problematic variable, I decided to roast just by sound/color/bean appearance. BTW: At one point I had a TurboCrazy with four PID's & t/c combinations with different set-points, trying to develop a better way to roast by temp profile. Maybe I shouldn't have given up on it quickly, but I just couldn't get consistent temps at the t/c's!
I'm trying to use temp readings more now that I'm using the Sonofresco, but I'm having the same problem finding a location in the 1.4 pound bean mass that gives me reliable readings. I'll keep playing with temps but I'll rely on sound/color/bean appearance to determine roast levels.
When I start using the Ambex the 5-pound bean mass should be sufficient to let me take very accurate readings. Then I hope to really be able to roast by temp and stop the guess work. Thanks for taking the time to help me get the hang of roasting!
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Thanks for taking the time to help me get the hang of roasting!
Ya gotta love the Club! I have a long way to go, but everything I know about roasting, I learned here. And of course, taking what I learn here and applying it in my bunker, and shaping the info into my own understanding. There are people here that have been roasting more and longer than I have, but on average I've been doing ~50 roasts per month for 4 years, and I tip my hat to all those who have helped me learn the art of turning green beans tasty.
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Thanks for taking the time to help me get the hang of roasting!
Ya gotta love the Club! I have a long way to go, but everything I know about roasting, I learned here.
Heck, if it was easy my brother-in-law would roast beans. That would take all the fun out of it if that doofus could do it!
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Well, I am throwing in the towel on this project.
I really hate to be a quitter, but there is NO way I can get a piece of aluminum bent into the right shape.
You think haven't tried?????
I'm on my third piece, and it still just will not work....for me.
First I drilled too many holes in the wrong places in an aluminum yardstick.
Then Tex mentioned that my second yardstick was probably just too thick a piece of aluminum.
And now....with my third piece of exactly 1/16 1.25" ....
It's NOT working.
I've tried using a mallet on it when its wrapped around a cast iron dutch oven, but with the bolt in it it bulges....
I'm feeling excessively cranky about this whole thing right this minute, so....
be nice....
Oh, wait.....
maybe I'm the person those spring form cake pans are meant for.....hmmmmmm.....
Okay.....
I'll try to find one of those.....but not today.
Shopping anywhere but the Farmers Market on Saturday is not my idea of fun....
Susan
who promises to stop whining RIGHT NOW....
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Well, I am throwing in the towel on this project.
I really hate to be a quitter, but there is NO way I can get a piece of aluminum bent into the right shape.
Susan - !!!
The aluminum stock I suggested is 5054 marine-grade aluminum. It's as soft as butter and bends like foil. Did you get it at Ace Hardware like I said? Those yard-sticks are probably made of 2024 or 7075 aircraft aluminum - very hard stuff.
"When all else fails, read the bleepin' directions!"
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Oh shut up !!!!
It has nothing to do with how easily it bends.
It has to do with making a perfect circle....
Anyway, I lied about not going shopping today.
I just went to Target and got a springform pan.
I'll try that....
At this rate I coulda bought a.......
Okay, right, I'm still only into it for about an extra $15...
Susan (talking to herself)
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At this rate I coulda bought a.......
Okay, right, I'm still only into it for about an extra $15...
Heck, I have an extra if you want to buy it. 8)
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The extra bends are there to act as a chaff collector. When the top is on it diverts the chaff down into a colander - makes for a happier wife when I roast on her patio.
Admit it Tex, you're an engineer who can't resist over-designing something. ;) Poor Susan, look what you've done to her.
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Okay, you should all know how proud I am to be part of a group one of whose members just offered to send me a riser for my UFO.
I'm not telling you who because I haven't checked to find out if s/he wants that information shared....or not.
But....I'm hornswoggled.....
And very very grateful !!!!
Maybe whining does pay????
Anyway.....
THANK YOU ! ! ! ! ! ! !
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Poor Susan, look what you've done to her.
Excusez-moi? Or as Sister Twisted, of Our Lady of Fatima infamy, used to have us repeat thousands of times a day, "Mia Culpa, Mia Maxima Culpa!"
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Maybe whining does pay????
I don't know why that brings to mind the hand-lettered sign in the back window of a Chevy van at a Dead concert back in the late 60's, "Gas, Grass, or A**. nobody rides for free!"
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I'm not telling you who because I haven't checked to find out if s/he wants that information shared....or not.
Oh, I know who it is Susan. Some bleepin' do gooder trying to deprive us of our fair share of laughs at your expense!
:bootyshake:
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Aw, Tex, you know by now that I will continue to provide this group with lots of opportunities to get a laugh....
How many years have you been laughing at me now??????
Susan
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Just so you know... it wasn't me that offered the spacer, but I'd be happy to make one like mine and send it to you Susan. (Hoping to prod Tex into being the better friend)
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Aw crap - just take my roaster, Susan. Someone already deemed it "butt ugly" a page or two back! :BangHead:
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Dang it!
You're all a bunch of bleepin' do gooder Boy Scouts. Where's the fun in helping folks like that?
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Just so you know... it wasn't me that offered the spacer, but I'd be happy to make one like mine and send it to you Susan. (Hoping to prod Tex into being the better friend)
Thanks, Peter, but one's enuf.
And, forget tryin' to fix Tex.....he's almost as old as I am and twice as stubborn....
Susan
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Dang it!
You're all a bunch of bleepin' do gooder Boy Scouts. Where's the fun in helping folks like that?
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Oooops - who needs a boy scout when you can have 2?
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Aw crap - just take my roaster, Susan. Someone already deemed it "butt ugly" a page or two back! :BangHead:
Sorry about that comment David, but you know the ol' saw, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."? There's been an addendum, "...But ugly is obvious to everyone."
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Aw crap - just take my roaster, Susan. Someone already deemed it "butt ugly" a page or two back! :BangHead:
Sorry about that comment David, but you know the ol' saw, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."? There's been an addendum, "...But ugly is obvious to everyone."
When coffee roasting becomes a spectator sport, I'll purdy it up! :icon_salut:
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When coffee roasting becomes a spectator sport, I'll purdy it up!
I don't know about that David?
I had my wife, daughter & son-in-law there, plus three neighbors and their dogs who dropped by, while I roasted some Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Koke farms in the Sonofresco yesterday. From the looks on their faces I'd say if you're not roasting on the front porch then you ought to try it. :)
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When coffee roasting becomes a spectator sport, I'll purdy it up!
I don't know about that David?
I had my wife, daughter & son-in-law there, plus three neighbors and their dogs who dropped by, while I roasted some Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Koke farms in the Sonofresco yesterday. From the looks on their faces I'd say if you're not roasting on the front porch then you ought to try it. :)
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Soccer? You dare to post pics of Reliant Stadium - home of the Houston Texans - set up for soccer? That'd be like Lincoln Center set up for a rap concert (another of my favorite oxy-morons)!
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Soccer? You dare to post pics of Reliant Stadium - home of the Houston Texans - set up for soccer? That'd be like Lincoln Center set up for a rap concert (another of my favorite oxy-morons)!
Hey - I didn't put up the goals & paint the lines.. that was done by TEXANS.
RAP CONCERT at Lincoln Center? Go for it. Maybe the venue could use a little bling.
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In case anyone wants to get this thread back on the subject, here's my UFO/GG rig:
http://www.rogers6.com/gallery/v/family/coffeestuff/roasting/ufo/
Jack
(http://www.rogers6.com/gallery/d/4067-3/Image001.jpg) (http://www.rogers6.com/gallery/v/family/coffeestuff/roasting/ufo/)
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Looks great, Jack!
I'm curious on your roast times. When i had a spacer that wasn't quite as tall as yours, the roasts went too long for my tastes. Of course it all depends on the BTU's put out by your oven. Mine wasn't strong enough, apparently.
David
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Is that thing safe for food products Jack? ;D
What's the wattage on your CO top that it can sit that high above the beans? I found that the difference between a 1.5" & 2" riser meant I'd have a bit of reserve power if I needed it; so are you running yours wide open all the time?
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Galvanized spacer = Bad
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Galvanized spacer = Bad
If it's a springform cake pan it's probably aluminum or at least tinned. I can't recall ever seeing galvanized cookware. But if it's not galvanized the color could still do you in. ;)
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Tex - I think he mentioned that it's aluminum duct working! Probably galvanized, unfortunately.
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Tex - I think he mentioned that it's aluminum duct working! Probably galvanized, unfortunately.
If it's aluminum it wouldn't be galvanized, it's a rust-proofing for steel. Aluminum would be natural, painted/coated, or anodized. It looks to be ~4" tall, so Jack must have the King Kong convection oven. My oven is maxed out with a 2" spacer!
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My bad, Tex. He never mentioned aluminum. Here's the description of his roaster from his photo site:
* Salton UFO popcorn popper (now discontinued, but still available)
* Galloping Gourmet Digital Convection Oven (top only)
* HVAC duct - 12" x 10" transition (cut down)
* High-temp RTV silicone sealant
* High-temp silicone tubing
I am curious of the wattage of his oven. My TO is 20 years old - and would not be able to roast effectively from that height.
David
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Galvanized spacer = Bad
maybe...
http://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/mod01/01600817.html (http://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/mod01/01600817.html)
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000082.htm (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000082.htm)
The issue is the zinc (and other heavy metals) getting released into the food buy acids in the food or heat... it may be argued that in this instance the risk is low but is the argument worth your life or quality of life down the road...
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... it may be argued that in this instance the risk is low but is the argument worth your life or quality of life down the road...
If you'll try it & tell us if you experience problems I'd appreciate it. ;)
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If you'll try it & tell us if you experience problems I'd appreciate it. ;)
But, getting back to Susan's UFO/CO - how's it going? By now I expect you're already into your second or third batch and are getting the hang of it, right? Let us Know if we can help!
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Okay, making progress.
Got my beautiful riser.
It is now nicely foil taped to the UFO.
Only one more question: how high or low should I drill a hole for the TC?
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What do you guys use to clean the dark brown gunk that builds up on the glass of the TO? I've tried all my household cleaners and they don't really do much. When the roaster is hot the cleaners do better but I have yet to find anything to completely (and easily) remove the gunk.
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Susan, is your probe one of those long pointy metal ones? If so, I'd go as low as you can so the angle of the probe is as shallow as possible. That way you'll have more of the tip buried in beans.
HC4U, my glass never gets cleaned. I gave up on it, as you can do it every ten roasts, and with an accurate temp probe you don't really have to see the beans. The crud doesn't build up all that thick, and eventually it'll start to flake off, at which time it can be scraped off easily.
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Susan, is your probe one of those long pointy metal ones? If so, I'd go as low as you can so the angle of the probe is as shallow as possible. That way you'll have more of the tip buried in beans.
I have two thermometers. The one on the left only has a wire that I have semi-permanently installed in the IR2. The one on the right has the right kind of probe, but I think the temp will only read up to about 350. What I think I am looking for is a probe like the one on the left with a plug that will fit into the gizmo on the left.....Right?
My current one will probably at least let me know when I get the pre-warming up high enough to dump the beans in.
Susan
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Susan
Look on Ebay... you need a K type thermocouple for the meter on the left... I'm not sure what connector is used, but I suspect on similar to this thermocouple (http://cgi.ebay.com/Thermocouple-2-K-1-8-x-12-U-w-m-f-and-wire_W0QQitemZ290301550985QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item290301550985&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A2|294%3A50)
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Oh good.
Does "K-type" refer to the wire itself or to the kind of probe or to the way it connects to the reader?
Susan
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A quick introduction to thermocouples. (http://www.capgo.com/Resources/Temperature/Thermocouple/Thermocouple.html)
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A quick introduction to thermocouples. ([url]http://www.capgo.com/Resources/Temperature/Thermocouple/Thermocouple.html[/url])
Okie doke read all the parts I could until my eyes crossed.
Susan
Look on Ebay... you need a K type thermocouple for the meter on the left... I'm not sure what connector is used, but I suspect on similar to this thermocouple ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Thermocouple-2-K-1-8-x-12-U-w-m-f-and-wire_W0QQitemZ290301550985QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item290301550985&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205[/url]|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A2|294%3A50)
Thanks Milo....Almost the same, but I need a plug with flat rather than round prongs.
I'm a lookin'.
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What do you guys use to clean the dark brown gunk that builds up on the glass of the TO? I've tried all my household cleaners and they don't really do much. When the roaster is hot the cleaners do better but I have yet to find anything to completely (and easily) remove the gunk.
I've tried everything under the sun. The ONLY thing that seems to work is to take a razor blade & use it as a scraper. It actually does a great job. I do it about once a month.
David
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What do you guys use to clean the dark brown gunk that builds up on the glass of the TO? I've tried all my household cleaners and they don't really do much. When the roaster is hot the cleaners do better but I have yet to find anything to completely (and easily) remove the gunk.
I've tried everything under the sun. The ONLY thing that seems to work is to take a razor blade & use it as a scraper. It actually does a great job. I do it about once a month.
David
Try washing the beans before you roast them. Cleanliness is next to goodliness!
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...Only one more question: how high or low should I drill a hole for the TC?
Susan - this looks great! If your TC is the rigid type, its gotta be low enough to be at/in the bean mass, BUT can't be so low that the stir arms clip it.
David
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Try washing the beans before you roast them. Cleanliness is next to goodliness!
:violent1:
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:violent1:
There it is folks - the military abusing the working class! You're all witlesses to the abuse!
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...Only one more question: how high or low should I drill a hole for the TC?
Susan - this looks great! If your TC is the rigid type, its gotta be low enough to be at/in the bean mass, BUT can't be so low that the stir arms clip it.
David
Why can't the stir arms clip the probe? If the direction of rotation is correct it shouldn't matter.
Oven cleaner on the glass, with a razor blade works too, if you have to see the beans during the roast.
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...Only one more question: how high or low should I drill a hole for the TC?
Susan - this looks great! If your TC is the rigid type, its gotta be low enough to be at/in the bean mass, BUT can't be so low that the stir arms clip it.
David
Well, actually I don't HAVE one yet, and I was just about to email you and ask you how happy you are with the one I saw in one of your videos.....I see they are readily available on eBay. Duz it work okay?
Susan
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What do you guys use to clean the dark brown gunk that builds up on the glass of the TO? I've tried all my household cleaners and they don't really do much. When the roaster is hot the cleaners do better but I have yet to find anything to completely (and easily) remove the gunk.
[Mad Scientist]
If you really want to get it clean, make a base bath. THIS CAN BE DANGEROUS - FLAMMABLE - CAUSTIC - IF YOU ARE A KLUTZ, YOU MIGHT HURT YOURSELF - I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING RESULTING FROM YOUR ATTEMPTS TO USE THIS METHOD OF CLEANING Wear heavy rubber gloves and goggles or a face shield. First, make a concentrated solution of Red Devil Lye (Sodium Hydroxide), about 25% by weight (use a 14 oz can to make half a gallon). Add the lye to the water slowly, it might even boil the reaction is so exothermic. I do this in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid so that I can reuse over and over. After this cools to room temperature, dump in half a gallon of isopropyl alcohol. This needs to be at least 70% alcohol, preferably 99%. If you can't get it this strong, only use a quart of water to make the lye solution, and use an additional quart of alcohol. Carefully mix this together. You should see a phase separation, the lower layer will be the aqueous layer and the upper layer will be alcohol. If you don't see this, your alcohol was probably too dilute. It will still work, just not as good. The lower layer is a powerful sodium isopropoxide solution, and it will chew up baked-on organic gunkus very well.
The best way to clean the glass is to remove the oven from the glass lid so that you can soak the lid, 4-6 hours will do it. If you have to paint the liquid on, make sure you are using the isopropoxide, and not the alcohol, and keep it wet - it will dry up rather quickly. This solution will corrode metal over time - some metals will get eaten up fairly quickly. When you rinse the solution off after 4-6 hours (this will keep your drain clean, as well), the glass will look like new...
[/Mad Scientist]
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[Mad Scientist]
If you really want to get it clean, make a base bath. THIS CAN BE DANGEROUS - FLAMMABLE - CAUSTIC - IF YOU ARE A KLUTZ, YOU MIGHT HURT YOURSELF - I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING RESULTING FROM YOUR ATTEMPTS TO USE THIS METHOD OF CLEANING
Ever try fishing with hand grenades BW? It's almost as effective as your cleaning solution. :violent4:
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As far as cleaning the glass, ever so often I'll use X-Fine steel wool. Knocks the gunk right off. A good wipe down and a once over with the shop vac and brand new again, at least for a few more roasts.
Generally I don't worry too much about the glass and being able to see the beans. I pay more attention to sound, temp, and smoke.
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Generally I don't worry too much about the glass and being able to see the beans. I pay more attention to sound, temp, and smoke.
Ditto.
Ever try fishing with hand grenades BW? It's almost as effective as your cleaning solution. :violent4:
We used M80's back when I was a teenager. If we could have got our hands on grenades, we probably wouldn't have survived to adulthood.
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What do you guys use to clean the dark brown gunk that builds up on the glass of the TO? I've tried all my household cleaners and they don't really do much. When the roaster is hot the cleaners do better but I have yet to find anything to completely (and easily) remove the gunk.
[Mad Scientist]
If you really want to get it clean, make a base bath. THIS CAN BE DANGEROUS - FLAMMABLE - CAUSTIC - IF YOU ARE A KLUTZ, YOU MIGHT HURT YOURSELF - I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING RESULTING FROM YOUR ATTEMPTS TO USE THIS METHOD OF CLEANING Wear heavy rubber gloves and goggles or a face shield. First, make a concentrated solution of Red Devil Lye (Sodium Hydroxide), about 25% by weight (use a 14 oz can to make half a gallon). Add the lye to the water slowly, it might even boil the reaction is so exothermic. I do this in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid so that I can reuse over and over. After this cools to room temperature, dump in half a gallon of isopropyl alcohol. This needs to be at least 70% alcohol, preferably 99%. If you can't get it this strong, only use a quart of water to make the lye solution, and use an additional quart of alcohol. Carefully mix this together. You should see a phase separation, the lower layer will be the aqueous layer and the upper layer will be alcohol. If you don't see this, your alcohol was probably too dilute. It will still work, just not as good. The lower layer is a powerful sodium isopropoxide solution, and it will chew up baked-on organic gunkus very well.
The best way to clean the glass is to remove the oven from the glass lid so that you can soak the lid, 4-6 hours will do it. If you have to paint the liquid on, make sure you are using the isopropoxide, and not the alcohol, and keep it wet - it will dry up rather quickly. This solution will corrode metal over time - some metals will get eaten up fairly quickly. When you rinse the solution off after 4-6 hours (this will keep your drain clean, as well), the glass will look like new...
[/Mad Scientist]
That's kinda scary BW. That would definitely be hard to explain at the hospital, " We I was cleaning the glass on my SC/TO coffee roaster with caustic lye and alcohol when all of the sudden..."
Maybe I will just stick to roasting by temp and sound. :-\
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Well, actually I don't HAVE one yet, and I was just about to email you and ask you how happy you are with the one I saw in one of your videos.....I see they are readily available on eBay. Duz it work okay?
Susan
Susan - that thermometer works well enough for this purpose, I believe. I really don't worry about the numbers at all. I use eyes, ears & nose mainly. The thermometer is there to mostly allow me to follow trends - is the temp rising? holding steady? falling? The whole trick about picking out a roasting thermomter is simply... it's gotta read up to 300 C (way over 500F - you won't roast this high, but you'll need readings in the upper 400s). The vast majority of digital kitchen thermometers don't!
I've had that thermometer for about a year, I think - and it still works just fine for my needs... and it's very inexpensive.
David
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We used M80's back when I was a teenager. If we could have got our hands on grenades, we probably wouldn't have survived to adulthood.
I must be part cat; I know I've gone through a couple of lives just getting here. Growing up, a friend of the family was a munitions/ordinance/demolition man. He used to let us play with his toys after he'd had a few cans of Pearl. One kid learned the hard way to listen carefully to what Ol' Tiny was saying (Let's just say the kid had a wicked knuckle ball after he healed.)
My fav was the plastic we'd roast weanies over, then we'd take it down range and blow a new fishing hole into the ground.
Yep, those were the good ol' days, when stupidity didn't cost anything you couldn't afford to pay.
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Yep, those were the good ol' days, when stupidity didn't cost anything you couldn't afford to pay.
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The whole trick about picking out a roasting thermomter is simply... it's gotta read up to 300 C (way over 500F - you won't roast this high, but you'll need readings in the upper 400s). The vast majority of digital kitchen thermometers don't!
This is a very good point - some of them will permanently lock at the high temp if they go above their upper limit. I have one that came from Target that will say '430?F' until the end of time. I tried removing the batteries, hitting combinations of buttons, but nothing restores it. Pretty sure that the probe is fried...
Harbor Freight tools has a digital multimeter that has a thermocouple, that works really great, and goes on sale now and then for $20. The regular price is something like $35.
Yep, those were the good ol' days, when stupidity didn't cost anything you couldn't afford to pay.
That there is one well-put statement...
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I have had really good results using Cafiza and hotwater for cleaning baked on oils on the sight glass of my little Hottop.
I disassemble everything, boil some water in my kettle, add in a Tablespoon of Cafiza, and let all the parts soak for 30 minutes or so. It's amazing how much of that junk comes off in sheets. I use a toothbrush to remove any stubborn stuff in the nooks and crannies.
A quick rinse in the sink with clean water, dry the parts off and reassemble.
And no worries about toxic chemicals.
I'm trying to remember how hard it would be to remove and replace the glass section from a Turbo Oven.
I imagine that you could fill up a small pan about 1" deep with the cleaning solution, and prop up the TO to keep it from being fully immersed. Just do small sections at a time, and rotate it until it's clean...or just do the part that you need to see through. ::)
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Back to my search for a probe to go into my thermometer/reader.
Looking at the female plug at the end of the reader, it is flat. Having connected with the eBay seller that Milo linked me too, he said that means that they are "miniature". Aha....that propelled my search for information quite a bit. My most recent landing place was at Omega, and they have a "probe configurer"......
http://www.omega.com/config/probeconfig.html
Very cool.
So. I'm thinking K-type, Quick Disconnect, Stainless Steel, 12 inches, 1/8" diameter (those are all guesses so far), but then I'm totally unclear as to whether I want grounded or ungrounded.
Whaddya think?
This is Day 2 on the search for a thermometer.....I'm nuthin if not S L O W .....
Susan
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I know it makes sense to use what you have, but the easier route would be to just buy one of these;
digital cooking thermometer (http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Roasting-Cooking-Oven-Thermometer-Timer-NEW_W0QQitemZ280320467435QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item280320467435&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50)
Under $14, free shipping, goes to 482 degrees.
I have a similar one, with the countdown timer and temp alarm. The timer is set for 3 minutes. When the temp gets to 300F, I stop the heat and start the timer for the drying phase. When those 3 min. are up, I jack up the heat and turn the alarm on, which is set for 344F. When the alarm goes off, I kill the heat and it coasts to 350, and I set the 3min. timer again to let it sit in that range for caramelization and sweetness development. The temp alert and timer makes it a no-brainer.
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I know it makes sense to use what you have, but the easier route would be to just buy one of these;
digital cooking thermometer ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Roasting-Cooking-Oven-Thermometer-Timer-NEW_W0QQitemZ280320467435QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item280320467435&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205[/url]|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50)
Under $14, free shipping, goes to 482 degrees.
NOW you tell me.....
Geez, Peter, I thought you were on my side....
::) ::) ::)
Okay, you are exactly right, and that is exactly what I need.
I'll order one today. I'm glad you reassured me that the temp goes high enough.
And THEN I'll have to stop procrastinating and actually roast some coffee....
??? ??? ???
Susan
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Back to my search for a probe to go into my thermometer/reader.
Looking at the female plug at the end of the reader, it is flat. Having connected with the eBay seller that Milo linked me too, he said that means that they are "miniature". Aha....that propelled my search for information quite a bit. My most recent landing place was at Omega, and they have a "probe configurer"......
[url]http://www.omega.com/config/probeconfig.html[/url]
Very cool.
So. I'm thinking K-type, Quick Disconnect, Stainless Steel, 12 inches, 1/8" diameter (those are all guesses so far), but then I'm totally unclear as to whether I want grounded or ungrounded.
Whaddya think?
This is Day 2 on the search for a thermometer.....I'm nuthin if not S L O W .....
Susan
My 2?
I'm in agreement with Alton Brown - single purpose tools don't belong in my kitchen. So, I'd opt for a needle type K 6" long grounded probe with a 24/36" lead terminated with a miniature plug.
Then you'd have a dual purpose tool that'd be useful when cooking the Thanksgiving turkey or roasting coffee.
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I'm in agreement with Alton Brown - single purpose tools don't belong in my kitchen. So, I'd opt for a needle type K 6" long grounded probe with a 24/36" lead terminated with a miniature plug.
Then you'd have a dual purpose tool that'd be useful when cooking the Thanksgiving turkey or roasting coffee.
That sounds good to me, too....I'm an equal opportunity purchaser....But/and were all those possibilities included in the Omega configuration? Or did you just tell me what I should be looking for "somewhere"????
Susan
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And THEN I'll have to stop procrastinating and actually roast some coffee....
??? ??? ???
Susan
I added some info to my last post after you posted, that you may find helpful.
Just drill your probe hole as low as you can. The only thing about these thermometers I don't like is the stiff, braided wire. They're made so that you can run them into an oven, so they have to be stiff, but it gives the wire a mind of its own and the probe isn't heavy enough to have its own mind. That's why I weighted down my probe with a couple of small hex nuts, but then had to go with a slot in the spacer instead of a simple hole.
Glad you're having fun with all this. Are you retired, that you have all this time? ;)
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Are you retired, that you have all this time? ;)
Oh yes. Seems to me when I was working I didn't have time to do anything at all. I owned/ran a business distributing dairy products to the natural foods and crossover grocery stores throughout the SF Bay area, and even when I wasn't working I was.....worrying about working. Two of my employees were anxious to grow the business bigger than I was interested in, so I financed them to buy me out and they are doing a terrific job with it. Win Win Win..... What I can't figure out is: how did I ever have time to work?????
Susan
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That sounds good to me, too....I'm an equal opportunity purchaser....But/and were all those possibilities included in the Omega configuration? Or did you just tell me what I should be looking for "somewhere"????
Susan
I'd probably go with an Omega probe, something like this: TJ36-CASS-18G-6-SMPW-M (http://www.omega.com/ppt/FindPN.html?seek=TJ36-CASS-18G-6-SMPW-M&searchbyp=yes)
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That sounds good to me, too....I'm an equal opportunity purchaser....But/and were all those possibilities included in the Omega configuration? Or did you just tell me what I should be looking for "somewhere"????
Susan
I'd probably go with an Omega probe, something like this: TJ36-CASS-18G-6-SMPW-M ([url]http://www.omega.com/ppt/FindPN.html?seek=TJ36-CASS-18G-6-SMPW-M&searchbyp=yes[/url])
$33, plus $8 shipping, and more if you want them to put a connector on the end? You must know something about Susan's financial position that she hasn't disclosed to the rest of us. ;)
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I'd probably go with an Omega probe, something like this: TJ36-CASS-18G-6-SMPW-M ([url]http://www.omega.com/ppt/FindPN.html?seek=TJ36-CASS-18G-6-SMPW-M&searchbyp=yes[/url])
$33, plus $8 shipping, and more if you want them to put a connector on the end? You must know something about Susan's financial position that she hasn't disclosed to the rest of us. ;)
No disclosure provided - I cite what I'd use; and this is cheap enough for this quality.
1/8" probe grounded type K t/c
S/S sheath
rugged transition (not plastic)
40" leads
male mini-connector
You can bend these probes to fit, so proper placement wouldn't be an issue. For the UFO/CO I'd probably get a brass compression fitting to hold the probe in place Just don't tighten the fitting to the point of crushing the ferrule.
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I know it makes sense to use what you have, but the easier route would be to just buy one of these;
digital cooking thermometer ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Roasting-Cooking-Oven-Thermometer-Timer-NEW_W0QQitemZ280320467435QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item280320467435&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205[/url]|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50)
Under $14, free shipping, goes to 482 degrees.
I have a similar one, with the countdown timer and temp alarm. The timer is set for 3 minutes. When the temp gets to 300F, I stop the heat and start the timer for the drying phase. When those 3 min. are up, I jack up the heat and turn the alarm on, which is set for 344F. When the alarm goes off, I kill the heat and it coasts to 350, and I set the 3min. timer again to let it sit in that range for caramelization and sweetness development. The temp alert and timer makes it a no-brainer.
That is a good find... I picked up some k type probes a while back and I just use my PID as a thermometer but if I have to expand I will keep these in mind...
Susan if you have the TC that came with your thermometer you may be able to open it up and wire in just about any TC.. (if it is a screw together like mine) I have used that bare wire TC that comes with the thermometer quit successfully but the ridged probe is better...
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I know it makes sense to use what you have, but the easier route would be to just buy one of these;
digital cooking thermometer ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Roasting-Cooking-Oven-Thermometer-Timer-NEW_W0QQitemZ280320467435QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item280320467435&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205[/url]|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50)
Under $14, free shipping, goes to 482 degrees.
I have a similar one, with the countdown timer and temp alarm. The timer is set for 3 minutes. When the temp gets to 300F, I stop the heat and start the timer for the drying phase. When those 3 min. are up, I jack up the heat and turn the alarm on, which is set for 344F. When the alarm goes off, I kill the heat and it coasts to 350, and I set the 3min. timer again to let it sit in that range for caramelization and sweetness development. The temp alert and timer makes it a no-brainer.
That is a good find... I picked up some k type probes a while back and I just use my PID as a thermometer but if I have to expand I will keep these in mind...
Susan if you have the TC that came with your thermometer you may be able to open it up and wire in just about any TC.. (if it is a screw together like mine) I have used that bare wire TC that comes with the thermometer quit successfully but the ridged probe is better...
I do have that TC, and it is currently reasonably firmly fitted under the glass and into the roasting chamber of my IR2. I'd as soon leave it there for the time being. I still have vague notions of learning how to use that machine more accurately someday (you know, with a Milowidget or a PID or.....?). I'm thinking now the trick is going to be to find a probe-wire-mini plug combination that I can use with it as needed.
On the other hand, I'm going to go and look and see how easy it is to take apart....
Meanwhile I ordered the one that Peter linked me to on eBay. I need to get it here and get started. I'm beginning to recognize that I am scared to try my first roast. Remember I've never roasted more than 150 gm at a time (in the IR2), so the idea of experimenting with 10-16 ounces is....intimidating to me.
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I do have that TC, and it is currently reasonably firmly fitted under the glass and into the roasting chamber of my IR2. I'd as soon leave it there for the time being. I still have vague notions of learning how to use that machine more accurately someday (you know, with a Milowidget or a PID or.....?). I'm thinking now the trick is going to be to find a probe-wire-mini plug combination that I can use with it as needed.
On the other hand, I'm going to go and look and see how easy it is to take apart....
Meanwhile I ordered the one that Peter linked me to on eBay. I need to get it here and get started. I'm beginning to recognize that I am scared to try my first roast. Remember I've never roasted more than 150 gm at a time (in the IR2), so the idea of experimenting with 10-16 ounces is....intimidating to me.
Hmm.. if you decide you want to get a probe for that thermometer you may find more of the yellow plugs in one of the sources linked to in the milowidgit thread... I think that is where I saw it ??? other wise you are on the right track... I found 12 oz of green is best in my SC/TO partly because 16 oz reacts differently and more importantly I use pint mason jars with one way valves in the lid for storage... 12 oz of greens fits nicely in two jars after roasting.. and 3 jars is 1 pound of roasted coffee.. (on average)..
Don't be afraid... (don't roast your La Esmeralda lot 7 first) but don't be afraid....
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Hey, I use the pint jars too, but no valves in the top. I'll have to look into that part.
Thanks for the kick in the keester. I WILL roast as soon as the thermometer comes !!!!
Susan
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Meanwhile I ordered the one that Peter linked me to on eBay. I need to get it here and get started. I'm beginning to recognize that I am scared to try my first roast. Remember I've never roasted more than 150 gm at a time (in the IR2), so the idea of experimenting with 10-16 ounces is....intimidating to me.
I would recommend that you try your first roast sans thermocouple. Start out by running both the oven (at ~380-400?F) and the UFO for 2-3 minutes to warm up, then dump in 12-14 ounces of your least expensive Central American hard bean. It is pretty hard to totally pooch a roast that way. If you don't start hearing the first crack by 9 minutes or so, turn up the power. Chances are, though, that you will hear the first crack begin at about 7 minutes. Time the gap between the end of 1C and the start of 2C, if it goes over 3 minutes or so, turn up the heat. This will give you some good experience with the sights, sounds, and smells, and allow you to get your handling method down. Going through the motions will allow you to focus on the temps next time around after having a good idea of how everything fits together and building some confidence in the hardware. Make sure you have oven mitts, a wooden spoon, and your bean cooler handy before you start.
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Okay.
I will.
I'll go do it now.
Before I get cold(er) feet.
Back soon....
Susan
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That's the beauty of the SC/TO; things happen in a relatively slow and even progression, and there's not much that can go wrong. You'll notice that with the larger bean mass it takes more to get it moving, but you'll also notice that once they do get going they like to keep going. With that in mind, try to anticipate 1st crack and avoid pouring too much heat into the beans. While you don't want to stall the roast, it'll be easier to detect the end of 1st and control what happens after.
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Well, they are going around and around and beginning to brown up a bit. I'm 6 minutes in. Arms are still changing directions periodically. It's pretty chilly out here on the back porch --42 degrees -- so I left the UFO heater on as well as the TO heater. I also seem to have f largish "leak up around one side at the top between the silicone and the TO. Time to stop typing and be really sure I'm listening for a bit. Back soon....
Susan
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That's the beauty of the SC/TO; things happen in a relatively slow and even progression, and there's not much that can go wrong. You'll notice that with the larger bean mass it takes more to get it moving, but you'll also notice that once they do get going they like to keep going. With that in mind, try to anticipate 1st crack and avoid pouring too much heat into the beans. While you don't want to stall the roast, it'll be easier to detect the end of 1st and control what happens after.
OK, I think understood what you said but I'm not sure;
- IT TAKES MORE TO GET IT MOVING? Physically moving or roasting?
- ANTICIPATE 1ST CRACK? Anticipate silence or time it takes to get to 1st crack?
- POUR TOO MUCH HEAT INTO THE BEANS? Set the dial too high to start with or scorching the beans?
- STALL THE ROAST? Too low a temp to keep the roast going past 1st crack?
- DETECT THE END OF 1ST CRACK? Complete silence or the gradual slowing of 1st crack?
??
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;D ;D ;D j
I did it !!!!
I did it !!!!
I did it !!!!
Okay, so I somehow managed to turn the TO off for a while in the middle.
And so there's a part over on around the handle that doesn't have the chaff thing over it that needs more foil tape.
And
And
And....
But. I did it !!!!
And I can do it again....and better....
WOOT !!!!!
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"its so hard to be brave enough to push the little birdys out of the nest... but it is such joy to see them fly for the first time..."
excerpt from the eagles diary
Way to go!!!!
about the mason jars... I take the one way valves off of coffee bags, drill a hole in the mason jar lid (VERY carefully with a step drill) and put the one way valve in.... (probably a slightly loose lid would work fine if you roast one batch twice a week)
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Way to go SusanJoM! :D Crongrats on your first roast. Let us know how it tastes. ;D
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I can quit roasting now - you are going to send those of who helped you some coffee, right? I bet that 1/4# of Indian Robusta I sent you would be good mixed in with those beans.
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That's the beauty of the SC/TO; things happen in a relatively slow and even progression, and there's not much that can go wrong. You'll notice that with the larger bean mass it takes more to get it moving, but you'll also notice that once they do get going they like to keep going. With that in mind, try to anticipate 1st crack and avoid pouring too much heat into the beans. While you don't want to stall the roast, it'll be easier to detect the end of 1st and control what happens after.
OK, I think understood what you said but I'm not sure;
IT TAKES MORE TO GET IT MOVING? Physically moving or roasting?
Well, both. But I meant roasting. It's like there's some 'inertia' and the larger bean mass takes more energy to get the temps to rise.
ANTICIPATE 1ST CRACK? Anticipate silence or time it takes to get to 1st crack?
I watch temps, but the smell and the early-bird snaps signal the onset of 1st crack too.
POUR TOO MUCH HEAT INTO THE BEANS? Set the dial too high to start with or scorching the beans?
As you know, with the TO, the heat is either on or off. After letting the roast coast around 350F for a few minutes (a tip from BW, for caramelization of sugars and sweetness) I turn the heat on to head for 1st. But I like to modulate the heat as it nears and enters 1st, turning it off, then on, at least once to let some of the latent heat that built up in the beans on the way to 1st work its way out, so that the event of 1st crack is more controlled. As Glacier taught me years back, this is especially important with decafs.
STALL THE ROAST? Too low a temp to keep the roast going past 1st crack?
Too low a temp to keep 1st occuring. While the beans are being exothermic and giving off heat during 1st, they need to be fed enough heat to keep the process going, so that the crucial chemical changes in the bean continue.
DETECT THE END OF 1ST CRACK? Complete silence or the gradual slowing of 1st crack?
That is the unanswerable question. Beans vary so much; sometimes 1st ends very clearly and there's silence; and other times there's a minute or two of outliers. But I'd call 1st over when the majority of snaps is done, calling the time of the outliers part of the City+ segment.
Either way, the whole reason I try to keep from flying into 1st crack is so that 1st is a controlled event, and whatever the temp is when 1st is winding down can be maintained and slowly increased for a couple minutes. I feel there's some good flavor and body development happening in the 3 minutes after 1st if the temps are only slightly increased (maybe 4-7 degrees) without letting the roast characteristics of a FC or FC+ start encroaching on the origin characteristics of the beans.
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Okay, here's a question: is every bean in the batch going to crack during "first crack" and then again during "second crack"? I know I heard some good solid snaps and cracks and then later heard something a lot more like rice krispies crackling, but there sure weren't anywhere near enough cracks of the first sort to account for all those beans in there......
Susan
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;D ;D ;D j
I did it !!!!
I did it !!!!
I did it !!!!
AWESOME, SUSAN!!!
:wav: :wav: :wav:
Can't wait to hear how they taste!!!
Proud of you.
David
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Okay, here's a question: is every bean in the batch going to crack during "first crack" and then again during "second crack"? I know I heard some good solid snaps and cracks and then later heard something a lot more like rice krispies crackling, but there sure weren't anywhere near enough cracks of the first sort to account for all those beans in there......
Susan
That's a good question, to which I can only guess. I'd say that every bean goes through the same process during 1st, but don't think every bean signals that process with an audible snap.
With regard to 2nd, I don't want to find out, 'cuz by the time every bean crackles we'd be at the end of French, and that's against my religion.
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Okay, here's a question: is every bean in the batch going to crack during "first crack" and then again during "second crack"?
Every bean variety will behave differently. Some roasts have explosive, loud & lengthy 1st crack, and others are gently & don't seem to give enough audible bang to account for the load. Sometimes 1st will sound almost like popcorn, and others will sound more like a classic 2nd (crackle). Sometimes 1st rolls right in to 2nd, other times you can coax a nice 3-5 minute pause in between the last of 1st & the start of 2nd. you will learn the smell of 1st & 2nd crack too - and when you hit 2nd, the quality of smoke changes visually too.
Have fun exploring! Nice to NOT have the IR2's fan screaming through the process, no?
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Y'all should take very big bows.
If you hadn't given me all the pointers,
loaned me bits,
sent me parts,
insulted me,
nudged me,
flattered me,
and generally included me....
I'd never have gotten this far....
And here I am......at the beginning of another journey....
Whoopee.....
-
...
And here I am......at the beginning of another journey....
Whoopee.....
And you finished a project! That's fantastic Gal - now get back to work on the PID for the Gaggia Coffee. ;)
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Okay, here's a question: is every bean in the batch going to crack during "first crack" and then again during "second crack"? I know I heard some good solid snaps and cracks and then later heard something a lot more like rice krispies crackling, but there sure weren't anywhere near enough cracks of the first sort to account for all those beans in there......
Susan
The first crack is the sound of the seam splitting as the bean expands. Most beans will do this, although there are a few reasons that they won't. Sometimes decaf beans went through so much turmoil in the decaffeination process that they won't make noise for the first crack. Some really tiny beans (Maui Moka, Yirg Peaberry) will not make a sound at first crack. Also, if the ramp is really slow you may not get much of an audible first crack as the expansion that causes the seam separation will occur too gradually. Frequently, if you are able to do that, it means that you did very well with the gradual ramp through the caramelization range, and you will have sweet coffee (this has been my experience anyway, YMMV).
The second crack, which as you mention is much quieter, and is the sound of small pieces of the bean blowing off, leaving tiny 'pits' in the bean surface. Some beans will undergo this more than once, so you may get a lot more snaps in the second crack than in the first.
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Thanks for the information.
That first batch was some of Stubbie's Brazil Moreninha.
It should probably rest another day, but....more probably I will try some this morning.
Hmmmm.....1-cup pourover? Yama? my newly arrived used KMB?
Decisions, decisions, decisions.....
:-)))))
Susan
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Hmmmm.....1-cup pourover? Yama? my newly arrived used KMB?
Decisions, decisions, decisions.....
:-)))))
Susan
I recommend HYPER-CAFFIENATION! The morning Tri-fecta.
Enjoy the buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Y'all should take very big bows.
If you hadn't given me all the pointers,
loaned me bits,
sent me parts,
insulted me,
nudged me,
flattered me,
and generally included me....
I'd never have gotten this far....
And here I am......at the beginning of another journey....
Whoopee.....
No maam.... you take the big bow... you did it, and may be the first female to do it...at least that I know of.
Nice work from the photos too. Looks like you could be a machinist almost ;D
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No maam.... you take the big bow... you did it, and may be the first female to do it...at least that I know of.
Nice work from the photos too. Looks like you could be a machinist almost ;D
Susan has gotten her hands dirty with a lot of coffee-related projects. She can strip a near-antique Gaggia down and rebuild it like new. She has a Rancilio MD-50 that she tore apart for cleaning & put in new burrs. There was a Bunn ES-1A that she stripped to the frame and acid-bathed (this one she did lose interest in before reassembling it - so she sold it to a friend).
Yessir, that is a talented person, unafraid to go where no female has dared to tread!
You go Gal!
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awwwww shucks......
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I like that foil tape idea for the aluminum spacer... looks simpler than the springs (and I don't have to paint my SC pink)
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I like that foil tape idea for the aluminum spacer... looks simpler than the springs (and I don't have to paint my SC pink)
That was BW's idea....
Thanks, BW.
Susan
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I like that foil tape idea for the aluminum spacer... looks simpler than the springs (and I don't have to paint my SC pink)
I've been doing that for years. It has to be replaced every 3 months or so at my rate of roasting, and the adhesive will mark up the riser and the popper some, but it is very handy, is quicker than RTV, fills small gaps easily, and doesn't get caught on things like springs.
You are welcome Susan!
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...and may be the first female to do it...at least that I know of.
There is a woman who goes by Javajabbers on various coffee sites who did a UFO/TO build about 2 years ago - right after I did mine. So Susan is not the first female to jump on this particular project, but that takes nothing away from her expertise & abilities - she knows her stuff!
How's that first batch taste, Susan? inquiring minds want to know.
David
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How's that first batch taste, Susan? inquiring minds want to know.
David
Absolutely delicious.
It is amazing how completely differently it tastes from anything I ever did in the IR2.
Everything about it was just.....hmmmmmm.......rounder tasting.
My IR2 is herstory !!!!
Susan
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Absolutely delicious.
It is amazing how completely differently it tastes from anything I ever did in the IR2.
Everything about it was just.....hmmmmmm.......rounder tasting.
My IR2 is herstory !!!!
Susan
I knew you were gonna say that! Bet everyone else did too! You're gonna enjoy trying tons of varieties - 'cause its a new game now. Try beans you didn't like in the iRoast. You might be pleasantly surprised. I'm thinking your old favs will be even more to your liking roasted this way.
BTW - I'm waiting on my new switch for the Bunn - I hope to be back in 'business' before long.
David
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Ok ... I guess this question will be addressed to those who have both a drum roaster, SC-TO, and a FR8+ ... what is the difference in taste between these 3 roasting methods.
Thanks
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I have TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, Sonofresco, air popper roasters, but no drum roaster, yet. I wouldn't expect a difference from one machine to the next - if you can match profiles.
An air popper is pretty much a balls to the wall proposition; there's not a whole lot one can do to alter the roast profile.
The UFO/CO is a lot more tailorable, but profiling is still hit-or-miss since it's so hard to reproduce a successful roast. I've tried lots of things; multiple PIDs to let me hit particular temps and hold the roast there; multiple timers so I could predict when 1st & 2nd crack was about to occur, etc. Nothing really helped because there were so many variables that I just couldn't manage enough of them.
The Sonofresco has 9 preprogrammed roast profiles. I'm still playing around with them, but so far I prefer levels 3 & 4 best. Looking at my roast notes I know I can hit a City roast (426?F) time and again, and the Yirg Koke I roasted today will taste the same as what I roasted last week.
Unless one can reproduce a successful roast then the results will obviously be unpredictable. Not necessarily bad; because I invariably got some very drinkable coffee from my TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, & air popper. I just couldn't pick up the same greens I'd roasted last week and know what they were going to taste like this week. That's the only difference I've noticed.
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How's that first batch taste, Susan? inquiring minds want to know.
David
Absolutely delicious.
It is amazing how completely differently it tastes from anything I ever did in the IR2.
Everything about it was just.....hmmmmmm.......rounder tasting.
My IR2 is herstory !!!!
Susan
Yahoo Susan!
Now what can we talk you into? We've gotten you to toss your worthless old grinder in favor of the Tranguillo & MD-50. The Krups steam toy was abandoned in favor of a host of real espresso machines. Someone's talked you into modding the Gaggia espresso machines and now some fool's got you hooked up with a real suicide roaster.
Where does it end Gal? :angel:
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I have TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, Sonofresco, air popper roasters, but no drum roaster, yet. I wouldn't expect a difference from one machine to the next - if you can match profiles.
An air popper is pretty much a balls to the wall proposition; there's not a whole lot one can do to alter the roast profile.
The UFO/CO is a lot more tailorable, but profiling is still hit-or-miss since it's so hard to reproduce a successful roast. I've tried lots of things; multiple PIDs to let me hit particular temps and hold the roast there; multiple timers so I could predict when 1st & 2nd crack was about to occur, etc. Nothing really helped because there were so many variables that I just couldn't manage enough of them.
The Sonofresco has 9 preprogrammed roast profiles. I'm still playing around with them, but so far I prefer levels 3 & 4 best. Looking at my roast notes I know I can hit a City roast (426?F) time and again, and the Yirg Koke I roasted today will taste the same as what I roasted last week.
Unless one can reproduce a successful roast then the results will obviously be unpredictable. Not necessarily bad; because I invariably got some very drinkable coffee from my TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, & air popper. I just couldn't pick up the same greens I'd roasted last week and know what they were going to taste like this week. That's the only difference I've noticed.
Hmm ... that's interesting. Thanks for your perspective.
I got curious when Susan said that her SC/TO beans tasted far superior than IR2. This is a better roaster than the FR8+ and it sounded like close to drum roasting. I get your point that if you ace the roast unless you have a program to duplicate it over and over again then every roast the beans taste will vary.
Hmm ... I wonder what the cheapest roaster setup would be to work well with the Milogadget setup?
:)
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Ok ... I guess this question will be addressed to those who have both a drum roaster, SC-TO, and a FR8+ ... what is the difference in taste between these 3 roasting methods.
Thanks
Drum roasts are more 'roasty' and 'smoky', with more body and less high-end.
TurboCrazy has more high end, with less body, smokiness, and Maillard roast products.
FR8+ results are really dependent on how much control you have. Off the shelf and unmodified it is a burning machine, with poor ramping and development. With a variac and a smaller load, you get something more like a TurboCrazy than a drum.
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I have TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, Sonofresco, air popper roasters, but no drum roaster, yet. I wouldn't expect a difference from one machine to the next - if you can match profiles.
Matching profiles is only part of the equation; even if you can precisely match time/temps, the method used to apply heat to the bean, and the air-flow, will produce huge differences.
The UFO/CO is a lot more tailorable, but profiling is still hit-or-miss since it's so hard to reproduce a successful roast. I've tried lots of things; multiple PIDs to let me hit particular temps and hold the roast there; multiple timers so I could predict when 1st & 2nd crack was about to occur, etc. Nothing really helped because there were so many variables that I just couldn't manage enough of them.
I admit that I'm biased toward the SC/TO, but this statement is something I totally disagree with. You can give me any profile's time/temp plot and I can hit it, ten times out of ten.
I'm not being contentious Robert, nor am I defensive about the SC/TO as my pet roaster. Just trying to clarify what I believe is some misinformation.
Unless one can reproduce a successful roast then the results will obviously be unpredictable. Not necessarily bad; because I invariably got some very drinkable coffee from my TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, & air popper. I just couldn't pick up the same greens I'd roasted last week and know what they were going to taste like this week. That's the only difference I've noticed.
That's the crux of the matter isn't it? (the bold, italicized sentence) From my experience with the SC/TO you're revealing more about the roaster than the roaster. ;)
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Being both a IR2 owner and a SC/TO owner I can definitely say that the SC/TO roasts do taste different. The SC/TO
is can be more nuanced a detailed IMHO. Since getting the hang of my SC/TO roaster I hardly ever use my IR2. I'm actually getting ready to sell it. It was a really good roaster and I enjoyed playing around with it. The IR2 ability to use pre-programmed profiles allow to to produce fairly consistent roasts.
The only problem I had withe the IR2 was that the temp constantly climbed. You could never really "hold" a temperature, but you could increase and decrease that rate at which the temp went up by modifying the profile.
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Part of the trouble I had with the TurboCrazy & UFO/Co was I didn't use it enough to master its finer points. What I like about the Sonofresco is you don't have to tinker with it to get a great repeatable roast.
I liken it to a Gaggia Classic or Rancilio Silvia. If you master temp surfing and pay attention to the tiny details you can make very good coffee with either machine. But if you PID those machines you can enjoy a more laid back approach, let the machine attend to the details, and still have a very good cup of coffee.
I suppose I'm at that point in life when I'd rather enjoy the shortcuts and let others chase the bunny down the hole.
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I have TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, Sonofresco, air popper roasters, but no drum roaster, yet. I wouldn't expect a difference from one machine to the next - if you can match profiles.
An air popper is pretty much a balls to the wall proposition; there's not a whole lot one can do to alter the roast profile.
I use a PID to turn on and off the heat of either an air popper, heat gun, TO, any AC 110v heater that will not blow my SSR I just tell the PID were I want to go and when I am done being at that temp I tell it to go higher... the PID is not reacting the same from one heat source to another but I believe I can keep the beans under 300 for 3 minutes and hold them in the caramelizing zone if I want and drop the power just enough at 1st crack to slow it down before I rage into 2nd crack
The UFO/CO is a lot more tailorable, but profiling is still hit-or-miss since it's so hard to reproduce a successful roast. I've tried lots of things; multiple PIDs to let me hit particular temps and hold the roast there; multiple timers so I could predict when 1st & 2nd crack was about to occur, etc. Nothing really helped because there were so many variables that I just couldn't manage enough of them.
The Sonofresco has 9 preprogrammed roast profiles. I'm still playing around with them, but so far I prefer levels 3 & 4 best. Looking at my roast notes I know I can hit a City roast (426?F) time and again, and the Yirg Koke I roasted today will taste the same as what I roasted last week.
that is the genius of the Sonofresco... I can go in to the shop once in a blue moon and play with the new beans... pick a Sonofresco profile or two that do the bean justice and the shop owner can train any snot nosed kid off the street to roast coffee... The down side is.. did the beans get good dry time (3 minutes under 300) would the bean taste better with a little linger in the caramel zone ??
Unless one can reproduce a successful roast then the results will obviously be unpredictable. Not necessarily bad; because I invariably got some very drinkable coffee from my TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, & air popper. I just couldn't pick up the same greens I'd roasted last week and know what they were going to taste like this week. That's the only difference I've noticed.
I would love to have a Sonofresco with more control (milowidgeted) but if I could have any one roaster I would take a drum over a fluid bed... their are beans that taste better in a fluid bed but so far drum roasted coffee wins in my mind and the SC/TO is the next best thing
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...
Unless one can reproduce a successful roast then the results will obviously be unpredictable. Not necessarily bad; because I invariably got some very drinkable coffee from my TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, & air popper. I just couldn't pick up the same greens I'd roasted last week and know what they were going to taste like this week. That's the only difference I've noticed.
That's the crux of the matter isn't it? (the bold, italicized sentence) From my experience with the SC/TO you're revealing more about the roaster than the roaster. ;)
I agree 100% with your observations Peter! One thing though; even if I didn't get the same roast every time, I'd always get something very drinkable. That was part of the fun; sort of like opening a Christmas present every week!
It's only now that I'm considering taking coffee to the craft fairs & farmers markets that I'm concerned about repeatable profiles & roasts. If I sell someone something they like then I feel I have an obligation to have that in stock more or less constantly.
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I use a PID to turn on and off the heat of either an air popper, heat gun, TO, any AC 110v heater that will not blow my SSR I just tell the PID were I want to go and when I am done being at that temp I tell it to go higher... the PID is not reacting the same from one heat source to another but I believe I can keep the beans under 300 for 3 minutes and hold them in the caramelizing zone if I want and drop the power just enough at 1st crack to slow it down before I rage into 2nd crack
How did you program the PID - auto tune or custom? I found that the PIDs were mostly being hi-tech tstats; that they weren't using their ability to vary power all that much. I use Watlow 935A/93 & 965 models, plus CAL Controls 3200/3300 models. What I think I needed was a multi-input/multi-setpoint controller, but the ones I could find were Gawd-awful expensive!
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If I sell someone something they like then I feel I have an obligation to have that in stock more or less constantly.
I advise that you resist the urge to feel that way. ;)
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I use a PID to turn on and off the heat of either an air popper, heat gun, TO, any AC 110v heater that will not blow my SSR I just tell the PID were I want to go and when I am done being at that temp I tell it to go higher... the PID is not reacting the same from one heat source to another but I believe I can keep the beans under 300 for 3 minutes and hold them in the caramelizing zone if I want and drop the power just enough at 1st crack to slow it down before I rage into 2nd crack
How did you program the PID - auto tune or custom? I found that the PIDs were mostly being hi-tech tstats; that they weren't using their ability to vary power all that much. I use Watlow 935A/93 & 965 models, plus CAL Controls 3200/3300 models. What I think I needed was a multi-input/multi-setpoint controller, but the ones I could find were Gawd-awful expensive!
Good advice John... I embrace the uniqueness of my roasts (because I am not a machine) Ichi-go ichi-e (一期一会, literally "one time, one meeting") (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichi-go_ichi-e) I know that is pretty zen for a 'born again' but their is a little truth in it...
I am still playing with the settings in the PID but I have learned to set the target temp under my real target and then achieve my profile... it is not as smooth as the Sonofresco or exact as the milowidget but it gives me more room to play with my profile... I believe with time I will get very repeatable results... partially from fine tuning the PID and mostly from experience.. I started out trying to make this an exact science but I enjoy the art of the roast way too much... or as you put it.. 'Christmas every week' ;) I am faced with the same problem you are as I prepare to start roasting for farmers market my ace up the sleeve is that my main product (daily drinker) is roasted on a larger scale by some one else (coffee ambassadors and the local shop with a roaster)... and I am selling small quantity extra specialty coffee for that extra special event, my money is in the pottery first coffee and tea sales are close second
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If I sell someone something they like then I feel I have an obligation to have that in stock more or less constantly.
I advise that you resist the urge to feel that way. ;)
I don't know about that John; I remember walking a mile or more out of my way to get an espresso at a little cafe in Milan, just because I thought it was great! If I do decide to sell at the fairs I'd like to have some folks be repeat customers, and I don't see how I do that without having some consistency in the product I sell.
Most folks I know who like the exotic flavors are usually already home-roasters (or moochers from home-roasters). I'd like to lure the folks who aren't quite there yet into being my customers. Too tame for you?
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If I do decide to sell at the fairs I'd like to have some folks be repeat customers, and I don't see how I do that without having some consistency in the product I sell.
Let high quality be your consistency.
Source the best beans you can, take care in roasting and prep, and give them higher quality coffee than they normally get.
I say that for a lot of reasons but most of all the consistent "signature blend" is at the end impossible. Setting out down that path could give you nothing but 100 headaches. :(
Forget the roasting part of it altogether and it's still impossible...
Focus on the roasting only and at best it's either problematic or "automatic"... :-\
BUT... I do not have a coffee shop or market stand. Nimbus, Rasqual, BW, guys like that would be best to say how things work with customer expectation and such, I am just talking coffee specific here.
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Drum roasts are more 'roasty' and 'smoky', with more body and less high-end.
TurboCrazy has more high end, with less body, smokiness, and Maillard roast products.
FR8+ results are really dependent on how much control you have. Off the shelf and unmodified it is a burning machine, with poor ramping and development. With a variac and a smaller load, you get something more like a TurboCrazy than a drum.
Great description BW ... which in your opinion produces a bean that is more suitable for espresso ... the SC/TO or drum?
:)
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Susan, is your probe one of those long pointy metal ones? If so, I'd go as low as you can so the angle of the probe is as shallow as possible. That way you'll have more of the tip buried in beans.
Okie doke. I;ve made a couple more mods and I have a couple of questions.
I added foil around the handle on the far side from the chaff exit, (to cut down on draft), and I drilled a hole for the thermometer.
The hole for the thermometer puts the thermometer just above the rotating arms, but.....it tilts. I tried adding some foil around it to stabilize it, but I really seemed to have to hold it all the time to keep the tip in a reasonable place in the bean mass. And, no way can I focus if I am trying to hold the probe steady, read the timer, read the temperature, watch the color, listen for cracks, and smell the smells. Given that almost all of that is necessary, does anyone have a suggestion for stabilizing the probe????
Oh yeah, those are some Yemen Saan'ani beans.
Thanks
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... does anyone have a suggestion for stabilizing the probe????
Susan,
Drill another hole with a smaller diameter drill bit - it needs to hold the TC firmly... and it sounds like yours is wobbly.
David
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... does anyone have a suggestion for stabilizing the probe????
I'd opt for something like this (http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=BRLK_SSLK&nav=TEMA07). If your probe is 1/8" get a 1/8 NPT x 1/8" tubing brass fitting. Use two 1/8 NPT nuts (get 'em at Lowe's or Home depot in the lamp parts department) to hold the fitting in place. Just finger tighten the top nut on the fitting - you don't want to crush the ferrule around the probe.
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Susan, is your probe one of those long pointy metal ones? If so, I'd go as low as you can so the angle of the probe is as shallow as possible. That way you'll have more of the tip buried in beans.
Okie doke. I;ve made a couple more mods and I have a couple of questions.
I added foil around the handle on the far side from the chaff exit, (to cut down on draft), and I drilled a hole for the thermometer.
The hole for the thermometer puts the thermometer just above the rotating arms, but.....it tilts. I tried adding some foil around it to stabilize it, but I really seemed to have to hold it all the time to keep the tip in a reasonable place in the bean mass. And, no way can I focus if I am trying to hold the probe steady, read the timer, read the temperature, watch the color, listen for cracks, and smell the smells. Given that almost all of that is necessary, does anyone have a suggestion for stabilizing the probe????
Oh yeah, those are some Yemen Saan'ani beans.
Thanks
I am having a lot of luck with this (http://peter4jc.googlepages.com/greenbeansinwithprobe...) mod from peter another pic here (http://peter4jc.googlepages.com/thestick,andtheprobe) check out the whole story starting here (http://peter4jc.googlepages.com/)
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I say you're better off having some wobble-room in your hole, and forget about having the probe sticking straight at the center of the bottom unit. If you let it ride in the direction that the stirring arms are rotating then you can just let the probe rest on the bottom and the arms will push it up and pass under it.
You'll notice my probe is weighted with a couple small nuts, which is why I have a slot and not a hole. I 'dremeled' the slot, and the width of the slot is what determines what sort of angle the probe will ride downstream.
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I don't suppose anyone would have an original shaft for a stir crazy one might have replaced with the socket/bolt mod, would they?
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What happened drob?
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I was trying to screw the hanger bolt into the shaft, and was holding the middle section with a pair of pliers, DOH! Hole was too small, I guess, and I thought I could get it in anyway. Live and learn.
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My SC unit has a removable stirring shaft comprised of a socket with a screw JB welded to the socket and then some washers and nuts to hold the stirring arm. I bought it like that. The socket drops on to the SC's square plastic shaft on the motor. Today the square plastic shaft on the stir SC became rounded and now my stirring arm assembly keeps popping off when beans are in the roaster.
The only way of fixing this problem is to permanently glue the stirring arm assembly to the SC's plastic drive shaft. I have tried JB Welding things together but the JB Weld won't stick to the plastic drive shaft. I have also tried various epoxies that you can buy in stores but they are only rated for ~250-300* and they release their bond during the roasting process.
I am looking for an adhesive or epoxy that A) will stick well to both plastic and metal and B) is able to resist the heat of repeated roastings without losing it;s bond. Any recommendations?
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Any recommendations?
Get another motor?
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Any recommendations?
Get another motor?
I've got a back up unit, but I really hate to toss a SC that still function fine mechanically. I was thinking that the epoxy/glue would be a pretty easy fix.
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Just to make sure - we're talking about the nub on the motor itself? If so, there's little option other than finding a new motor.
My SC unit has a removable stirring shaft comprised of a socket with a screw JB welded to the socket and then some washers and nuts to hold the stirring arm. I bought it like that. The socket drops on to the SC's square plastic shaft on the motor. Today the square plastic shaft on the stir SC became rounded and now my stirring arm assembly keeps popping off when beans are in the roaster.
The only way of fixing this problem is to permanently glue the stirring arm assembly to the SC's plastic drive shaft. I have tried JB Welding things together but the JB Weld won't stick to the plastic drive shaft. I have also tried various epoxies that you can buy in stores but they are only rated for ~250-300* and they release their bond during the roasting process.
I am looking for an adhesive or epoxy that A) will stick well to both plastic and metal and B) is able to resist the heat of repeated roastings without losing it;s bond. Any recommendations?
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You can try more glues... or spend the same money (or less) on a SC base at the local thrift store, swap motors and roast on...
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I have a spare motor if you want it.
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I have a spare motor if you want it.
Cool. PM sent...
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Is anyone using their SC/TO or TO/UFO to roast small batches of beans?
I'm the only person in the house. None of the dogs drinks coffee.
So, for example, one day this week I wanted to roast 6 oz each of three different beans.
My difficulty seems to be that the roast escalates so fast once it hits FC.
I have to hold onto the probe to keep it into as much of the bean mass as possible, and I have the alert set on 450 just to keep me safe. But that alert is going off less than 2 minutes after FC, (which seems to occur at about 6 minutes into the roast) at which point I scramble around and dump everything to avoid serious scorch.
Any suggestions for creating a profile for small batches and aiming for C+ or FC?
Susan
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I have somewhat of the same issue, and today I'm roasting a sample for Milowebailey that's only 4oz. :o
The temp probe becomes more useless as bean mass decreases, since the tip of the probe where it reads temps is exposed to more hot air and less beans. (Sort of like Tex - more hot air and less beans ;D )
Your main concern tho' will be to learn to modulate your heat, with or without the assistance of the thermometer. Small roasts are a two-edged sword; they're easier because they'll accept heat more easily and can be raised quickly, but harder because they have little momentum and won't coast as nicely- if you kill the heat the beans cool/stall easily.
All I can suggest is finding a way to get the probe to stay in the same spot without having to hold it, and then watch the temp it reads just as first starts and then modulate the heat so that temps climb gradually. Somewhere towards the end of 1st you should be able to turn the heat off for say 15sec., while watching the temp- the temps will continue to climb because of the beans' momentum and being exothermic, but that rise will slow. As the temp rise slows, turn the heat back on, allowing for the amount of time it takes for the heating element to come up to temp and start adding more heat into the beans.
With practice you'll be creating a nice, even, and slow heat ramp through 1st, and into 2nd.
You may be dealing with another issue too. If too much heat is poured into the beans going into and during 1st, they will have too much stored energy and will continue to climb right into 2nd, regardless of having the heat off. I have fun watching my temps climb an extra 10deg or more, after killing the heat. In fact, that's often how I end a FC or FC+ roast; say 1st is ending around 420F and I let the roast hang around the low to mid 420's for a couple minutes (which would give me a nice C+ roast level) and then I add heat until my probe reads 426, if I kill the heat then it'll climb all by itself into the mid 430's with an outlier snap or two of 2nd crack. So make sure that you don't pour too much heat into the roast, and then expect it to stop when you want it too.
Hope that helps answer your question. Sorry if it's too much info.
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Howdy Susan!
I've been using the air-popper for sample batches (anything under a half-pound). But I've been thinking about modding the UFO/CO for this job since I have the Sonofresco doing the heavy batches.
I'm considering how to reduce the diameter of the spacer ring and stirrer to do this? This is what I've come up with so far. I'm thinking the spacer ring might need to be taller and be just wide enough to accomodate the TO heating element. Since this is a semi-permanent solution (too cumbersome to switch back & forth) it may not work for you?
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That will address the issue of stirring a small batch by concentrating the beans into a smaller space, but not the real reason Susan's having the problem of roasts getting away from her.
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The best way to slow down a roast for small batches is to:
1) Reduce the TO heat output/temperature setting -and-
2) Increase the exhaust opening
With a UFO, you should be fine area-wise with your setup as the diameter is smaller than a StirCrazy. If you had a StirCrazy you might want to reduce the roasting area as Peter suggested.
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Perhaps some way of venting the heat?
I'm thinking a stationary spacer ring with multiple holes. Outside that ring would secondary spacer with corresponding holes and has the ability to rotate. When you needed to slow the roast down all you would need to do is rotate the outer ring until the holes line up, giving the heat a way to escape. Also, with a system like that, the holes could be fully open or partially open to adjust the amount of venting.
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Tex: I think I want to keep the potential for roasting larger amounts, so I'm not gonna mess with the overall diameter. And, given that the spacer was the part that pushed me over the edge when I was putting my roaster together, trying to make another one would be out of the question..... ;D
So, I will tackle the probe issue next; see if I can find a way to stabilize it. I remember now that I asked for advice on how to do that a while back and then.....ignored it all and went on my merry way without figuring it out. Oops....Guess I'll go back and see what my options are. I think I am using the probe that you (Peter) recommended.
One more question: do you have the lower heater on or off? Per BW's suggestions when I first turned the thing on, I have been pre-heating the roaster with both heaters on, and.....to date have been leaving them both on....well, except that I've had a couple of mishaps. With the Supentown oven, when I lift the top to put the beans into the pre-heated roaster, the handle lift turns to bleeping heater off. A couple of times now I haven't realized that the heat hasn't gone back on.....A A R G H....nerves.....
It will definitely help to stabilize that probe. Currently I'm trying to do too many things, and more than a half at a time is a lot for me. (Like the line in the Jimmy Dale Gilmore song: "I can't count to one without thinking twice...."
Thanks for the help.
Susan
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Perhaps some way of venting the heat?
I'm thinking a stationary spacer ring with multiple holes. Outside that ring would secondary spacer with corresponding holes and has the ability to rotate. When you needed to slow the roast down all you would need to do is rotate the outer ring until the holes line up, giving the heat a way to escape. Also, with a system like that, the holes could be fully open or partially open to adjust the amount of venting.
My set up wouldn't accomodate that since the spacer is (or was) foil-taped to the body of the UFO. (The foil tape gave up this time when I turned it over to dump beans, so it will need a new taping before I roast again).
AND, that spacer gets oily, so I don't know that you would be able to get one to move around inside or outside the other....
Susan
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The best way to slow down a roast for small batches is to:
1) Reduce the TO heat output/temperature setting -and-
2) Increase the exhaust opening
Okay, #1 isn't a problem.
#2 is somewhat problematic; would simply lifting the top (and not forgetting to put the handle back down) for a second or so be worth a try?
Susan
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That will address the issue of stirring a small batch by concentrating the beans into a smaller space, but not the real reason Susan's having the problem of roasts getting away from her.
Yeah, I started out roasting everything at max power until I discovered the little dial thingy that turns down the heat. It was only just before I got the Sonofresco that I figured out that a slower progression to final temps brought out some very interesting bean characteristics.
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Tex: I think I want to keep the potential for roasting larger amounts, so I'm not gonna mess with the overall diameter. And, given that the spacer was the part that pushed me over the edge when I was putting my roaster together, trying to make another one would be out of the question..... ;D
So, I will tackle the probe issue next; see if I can find a way to stabilize it. I remember now that I asked for advice on how to do that a while back and then.....ignored it all and went on my merry way without figuring it out. Oops....Guess I'll go back and see what my options are. I think I am using the probe that you (Peter) recommended.
One more question: do you have the lower heater on or off? Per BW's suggestions when I first turned the thing on, I have been pre-heating the roaster with both heaters on, and.....to date have been leaving them both on....well, except that I've had a couple of mishaps. With the Supentown oven, when I lift the top to put the beans into the pre-heated roaster, the handle lift turns to bleeping heater off. A couple of times now I haven't realized that the heat hasn't gone back on.....A A R G H....nerves.....
It will definitely help to stabilize that probe. Currently I'm trying to do too many things, and more than a half at a time is a lot for me. (Like the line in the Jimmy Dale Gilmore song: "I can't count to one without thinking twice...."
Thanks for the help.
Susan
My first prototype for this was an 8" dia. x 4" tall fruit cake tin from Corsicana, TX (http://www.collinstreet.com/). Toss the fruit cake & keep the tin!
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...
One more question: do you have the lower heater on or off? Per BW's suggestions when I first turned the thing on, I have been pre-heating the roaster with both heaters on, and.....to date have been leaving them both on....well, except that I've had a couple of mishaps. With the Supentown oven, when I lift the top to put the beans into the pre-heated roaster, the handle lift turns to bleeping heater off. A couple of times now I haven't realized that the heat hasn't gone back on.....A A R G H....nerves....
...
I've never used the bottom heater. As for that handle - I'd put a big flashing light in the circuit so I'd remember to drop the handle - or whatever you need to remind you? I've never done that but I can see how it could happen.
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The best way to slow down a roast for small batches is to:
1) Reduce the TO heat output/temperature setting -and-
2) Increase the exhaust opening
With a UFO, you should be fine area-wise with your setup as the diameter is smaller than a StirCrazy. If you had a StirCrazy you might want to reduce the roasting area as Peter suggested.
Or, you could use this as the base unit (http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/184-1460069-4793561?ASIN=B000FEM612&AFID=Froogle&LNM=B000FEM612|Hello_Kitty_3qt._Popcorn_Popper_KT5230&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=B000FEM612&ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001), since they're so much cooler than the originals.
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The lower heater is a good thing early in the roast as it gets the beans up to ~300 quickly, which is desirable. You might shut it off at 3 minutes or so to reduce the heat that it adds, although that is not very much - these things only heat to about 350 or so.
If you remove some of the tape near the exhaust port, it will increase the venting somewhat. Another solution is adding closable vents like Peter uses, that you can prop open with a small piece of wood.
Start with reducing the turbo oven output, though. That might be enough.
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The lower heater is a good thing early in the roast as it gets the beans up to ~300 quickly, which is desirable. You might shut it off at 3 minutes or so to reduce the heat that it adds, although that is not very much - these things only heat to about 350 or so.
Okay I can handle that.
If you remove some of the tape near the exhaust port, it will increase the venting somewhat.
That too.
Another solution is adding closable vents like Peter uses, that you can prop open with a small piece of wood.
This seems like I would end up pushing the whole thing onto the floor. Somehow it seems like I would like a workbench that I could stand at and that would have a support for the roaster -- either a hole in the table or some blocks to hold it steady. As mine is right now -- freestanding -- putting any pressure at all on any part of it would knock the whole thing kollywhompas....(don't look it up).:-))
Start with reducing the turbo oven output, though. That might be enough.
Roger that. I'm gonna head off to the hardware store to see about some hex nuts for weighing down the probe. After that I will get back to messin' with the temp controls.
Thanks all....
Susan
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I ran into the same problem with the switch on the handle; don't like turning it off every time I lift the top off to have a peak, and then forgetting to put the handle into its on position.
I solved that by forming a little "D" handle out of coathanger wire, with little loop-hooks. It fits on top of the TO and snaps into place with the loop-hooks grasping the vent slots. This is now how I lift the TO when I don't want to turn it off. You could also take the TO apart and take that switch out of the circuit.
Don't give up!
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Don't give up!
Nah, not yet at least...
I found this bit in my debris/left over/never put away pile.
Seems to be a length of silicone tubing and a connector.
I'm thinking it may hold the probe just above the arms...
We will see.
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Don't give up!
Nah, not yet at least...
I found this bit in my debris/left over/never put away pile.
Seems to be a length of silicone tubing and a connector.
I'm thinking it may hold the probe just above the arms...
We will see.
The PTFE (Teflon) filled tubing used in Gaggia's has a max temp rating of 200°F.
(http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/TORCH6.GIF)
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The PTFE (Teflon) filled tubing used in Gaggia's has a max temp rating of 200°F.
([url]http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/TORCH6.GIF[/url])
Ooops...
Guess that wasn't gonna be a good idea.
Thanks for keeping me safe....
Back to the drawing board....
Susan
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...
Back to the drawing board....
Susan
Copper tubing to hold the probe & a compression fitting to hold the tubing in place?
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...
Back to the drawing board....
Susan
Copper tubing to hold the probe & a compression fitting to hold the tubing in place?
What would you think about a plug of RTV???
Maybe one on the inside and other on the outside?
Any thots???
Susan
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...
Back to the drawing board....
Susan
Copper tubing to hold the probe & a compression fitting to hold the tubing in place?
What would you think about a plug of RTV???
Maybe one on the inside and other on the outside?
Any thots???
Susan
I was assuming that you'd want to be able to pull the probe for use in other applications?
Something like this with a couple off jam nuts to keep it mounted on the riser and a piece of copper tubing sticking out to slide the probe into.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Fj24JHDrL._SL160_AA115_.jpg)
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I was assuming that'd you want to be able to pull the probe for use in other applications?
Not necessary. I got this probe just for this application.
But, I was thinking about another way to skin this cat.
Look at these pictures. I threaded the thermocouple wire from the thermometer I was using with the (now gone) IR2 through the probe hole, and used BW's foil tape to tape it to the bottom of the UFO. The probe should be right in even the smallest bean mass.
What have I missed in this possible solution ????
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Your gizmo is much prettier.
Does it have a name?
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I was assuming that'd you want to be able to pull the probe for use in other applications?
Not necessary. I got this probe just for this application.
But, I was thinking about another way to skin this cat.
Look at these pictures. I threaded the thermocouple wire from the thermometer I was using with the (now gone) IR2 through the probe hole, and used BW's foil tape to tape it to the bottom of the UFO. The probe should be right in even the smallest bean mass.
What have I missed in this possible solution ????
Looks good, but what does the adhesive taste like?
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Looks good, but what does the adhesive taste like?
Oh right.
Sigh....
Guess I'll take it off now before I have no choice but to find out.
Susan
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Your gizmo is much prettier.
Does it have a name?
That's a standard compression fitting. If you look hard enough you'll find one sized to fit your probe - is it 1/8" or 3/16"? Here's an eBay listing (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-16432-1-8-in-NPT-to-1-8-in-Tube-Compression-Fitting_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem120297790865QQitemZ120297790865QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories). They're fairly common, but you probably won't find one small enough at the big box hardware stores. You can get 1/8" or 1/4" NPT jam nuts at Lowe's or HD in the lamp parts section.
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That's a standard compression fitting. If you look hard enough you'll find one sized to fit your probe - is it 1/8" or 3/16"? Here's an eBay listing ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-16432-1-8-in-NPT-to-1-8-in-Tube-Compression-Fitting_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem120297790865QQitemZ120297790865QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories[/url]). They're fairly common, but you probably won't find one small enough at the big box hardware stores. You can get 1/8" or 1/4" NPT jam nuts at Lowe's of HD in the lamp parts section.
Too much more $$ for me to spend yet...
I think I'll try taking the UFO apart again and drilling small hole through the floor and then putting the adhesive on the bottom/outside of the bottom where it can't taint my beans.
Back soon....
Susan
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That's a standard compression fitting. If you look hard enough you'll find one sized to fit your probe - is it 1/8" or 3/16"? Here's an eBay listing ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-16432-1-8-in-NPT-to-1-8-in-Tube-Compression-Fitting_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem120297790865QQitemZ120297790865QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories[/url]). They're fairly common, but you probably won't find one small enough at the big box hardware stores. You can get 1/8" or 1/4" NPT jam nuts at Lowe's of HD in the lamp parts section.
Too much more $$ for me to spend yet...
I think I'll try taking the UPO apart again and drilling small hole through the floor and then putting the adhesive on the bottom/outside of the bottom where it can't taint my beans.
Back soon....
Susan
I may have one I can send you - what's the diameter of the probe?
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The calipers read .158.
But, let me try the thermocouple under the floor of the UFO route first....If that doesn't work I'll try your suggestion.
Is that how you have the probe held in place on yours?
Susan
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The calipers read .158.
But, let me try the thermocouple under the floor of the UFO route first....If that doesn't work I'll try your suggestion.
Is that how you have the probe held in place on yours?
Susan
I used J&B Weld and made a dent in the bottom of the pan. I do have a 1/4" fitting et al, with a 2" piece of copper tubing that should be just what you need.
I believe I still owe you many favors for giving me the upper boiler for the FOWC; so shut up & send me your mailing address off-forum & it's yours.
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I believe I still owe you many favors for giving me the upper boiler for the FOWC; so shut up & send me your mailing address off-forum & it's yours.
Okay boss.... :angel:
Susan
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I believe I still owe you many favors for giving me the upper boiler for the FOWC; so shut up & send me your mailing address off-forum & it's yours.
Okay boss.... :angel:
Susan
It's in the mail.
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It's in the mail.
Ah, I thought I felt a headache coming on 8)
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As usual, you guys are over thinking it.
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Since I don't know where else to put this comment, I'm just going to add it here.
In preparation for being included in BoldJava's cupping on Friday, I had thought I would practice with the smelling, tasting, trying to label stuff. Which is why I roasted those three beans a few days ago.
HA !!!!! Nothing like cupping to show you that what you have roasted is truly truly horrible.
I'm in a world of coffee hurting right now. I may just have to run into town and buy some Flying Goat freshly roasted beans to get me through until I figure this all out. And more beans for the "testing and recalibrating the grinder" pile.
I am truly looking forward to Bold Java's samples just to taste what someone's good home roasted coffee even tastes like.
Sigh....
Susan
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As usual, you guys are over thinking it.
Okay, so tell me where we veered off the path....
Susan
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As usual, you guys are over thinking it.
NEVER tell an Aggie that he's over injunearing something!
There are many ways to do something and then there are elegantly right ways of doing things. I want everything I build to look like it came off an assembly line, not hacked together by someone with a hammer, two screw drivers & a crescent wrench.
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NEVER tell an Aggie that he's over injunearing something!
Shut up, Tex.
I'm not an AGGIE (whatever that is), and I want to hear what he has to say.
Susan
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Well (http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/peeing-man.gif) on (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=5121;type=avatar)
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Oh, I guess I forgot to say please, huh.....
;D
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Oh, I guess I forgot to say please, huh.....
;D
...if that was aimed at me, no 'please' necessary; in fact, I am pleased to offer what I can.
If you have a slot in your spacer to drop the probe into, and some weight on it so it can't always do what it wants, and there's enough play in the slot so the probe can angle into the beans and follow the rotation of the bean mass... it'll rest happily in the beans and do exactly what you ask of it, without complaining.
Believe me, I've tried fixing a wire probe in place, and have the holes in my bottom unit to prove it. Now those holes have to be plugged to prevent beans from falling through. I know what Tex is saying about wanting something looking like it came off an assembly line, but at some point simplicity wins, and function comes before form.
I know you've seen this before, but take another look. I'm not saying it's the prettiest or the best, but it works... like buttah. peter's roasting bunker; Comments Welcome (http://peter4jc.googlepages.com/)
And in case B|Java's reading this... don't get your hopes up on his roasts... he pooches more roasts than anyone I know. ;)
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...if that was aimed at me, no 'please' necessary; in fact, I am pleased to offer what I can.
Nope, that was me trying to be cool about Tex pissin' on me.... 8) 8) 8)
Okay, Peter, so your saying I should put a slot into the beautiful spacer that BW sent me? Ouch, that will hurt.
That brings it up a lot higher than the hole I drilled in the side of the UFO before, but you say that with some weight on the inside end of the probe it will bounce around within the bean mass even when that mass is only 6 or so oz of greens?
Okay....I'll haul out the dremel and have at it....
Why not...???? Nothin' I've tried so far has worked....
(By the way, BoldJava says nicer things about you than you say about him >:D)
Susan
Susan
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That brings it up a lot higher than the hole I drilled in the side of the UFO before, but you say that with some weight on the inside end of the probe it will bounce around within the bean mass even when that mass is only 6 or so oz of greens?
Sure thing. You can run it without any beans at all, and it'll stay where you want it. The braided wire can be a pita, tho'. The longer you make the slot, the more shallow the probe's angle of attack will be and will submerse more of the tip in the beans.
That's the advantage of a slot and letting it slope down, versus a hole and sticking the probe horizontally; it'll be deeper in the beans and will ride over the arms w/o interfering with them.
(By the way, BoldJava says nicer things about you than you say about him >:D)
I will behave myself, and say only nice things about Dave and his ability to pooch a roast better than anyone I know.
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Okay, Peter, it's me again ....sigh....
One more less than astute question: how do you get the hex nuts to stick there on the downward sloping end of your probe? I just came back from the hardware store and I'm bumfuzzled. Either nuts won't fit over the probe at all (3/16" I think) OR they just slide back off...
So...what's the secret?
Susan
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Okay, Peter, it's me again ....sigh....
One more less than astute question: how do you get the hex nuts to stick there on the downward sloping end of your probe? I just came back from the hardware store and I'm bumfuzzled. Either nuts won't fit over the probe at all (3/16" I think) OR they just slide back off...
So...what's the secret?
Susan
I used a piece or piano wire (piano store.. wire cutters... high note... right side of key board... run!!)... seriously thin spring steel wire... copper didn't work, brass might work, galvanized is bad for you...
if hardware store is not helpful go to Music Store, Guitar string.. not the small one.. probably second or third from small.. you could ask for an old one they just replaced...
slide the nut on and wrap some wire around the probe between the nut and the tip about 2 or 3 inches back from tip... couple 4 times around and twist the two ends together... snip off the extra... test to see it is high enough to clear the stir rod... you are in business...
I know it is not factory pretty like Tex would want (and I do agree that is important for somethings) but my roasters are as fun to tinker with as the coffee roast profiles so I consider them works in progress.. :)
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if hardware store is not helpful go to Music Store, Guitar string.. not the small one.. probably second or third from small.. you could ask for an old one they just replaced...
Oh my..... I just changed my guitar strings this week, but I don't know if I'm willing to go out to the street and dig through the trash (the bins are out there now waiting to be picked up in the morning.....)....hmmmm.....Well I guess I'm just slightly too tight not to even try to find them....
Back in a flash with the trash....
Yetch....what a disgusting thing to do.....especially since it didn't yield results worth the dig.
Oh well. At least now I know what I need.....
Thanks (I think.....)
Susan
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Wild Bill is right on the money; welding wire worked for me - a small ring that has to be forced onto the probe - after you slide the nuts on, of course.
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if hardware store is not helpful go to Music Store, Guitar string.. not the small one.. probably second or third from small.. you could ask for an old one they just replaced...
Oh my..... I just changed my guitar strings this week, but I don't know if I'm willing to go out to the street and dig through the trash (the bins are out there now waiting to be picked up in the morning.....)....hmmmm.....Well I guess I'm just slightly too tight not to even try to find them....
Back in a flash with the trash....
Yetch....what a disgusting thing to do.....especially since it didn't yield results worth the dig.
Oh well. At least now I know what I need.....
Thanks (I think.....)
Susan
ROTFLMAO... you are alright sister... my kinda people... 8)
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I have to think most of you are outside having wonderful barbecues with your families, but maybe someone is checking up on their friendly 5-thumbed idjit even today..... ???
If so, H E L P....
My attempt to install the part which Tex so generously sent me failed miserably. The hole I drilled in the chassis has just the slightest upwards tilt, which results in the end of the probe tilting upwards and out of the bean mass; also the lock nut on the inside of the chassis impedes the turning of the arms......
So.....back to the other way of doing it -- floating the probe -- as Peter and others have been trying to tell me I should have done from the beginning.
Damn, guess I'm going to have to fire up the Smokey Joe and barbecue some crow.
Anyway, today's question is: what should I use to plug up the ugly 3/8" hole that I drilled through the chassis???? I figured I could put more of the foil tape on the outside, but that still leaves a hole on the inside that will certainly fill up with hot and not-so-hot beans. Will RTV sealant do it? Can I put the foil tape on the inside too?
Stop laughing. I'm officially out of roasted coffee after tomorrow morning, so this is a crisis !!!!!
Susan
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Susan...
You are learning from the same mistakes I made. My bottom units both have a couple holes. On one unit, I had the right size bolt to thread into the hole, with the end of the bolt being flush with the hole in the SC- a good solution as long as I remember that the bolt gets danged hot while roasting. The other unit has a more simple solution- there's a roasted bean lodged in the hole - that works well, except that there must be 20-some beans floating around in the SC, rattling every time I tip it over to dump, reminding me to put my dunce hat on.
Try a screw or a bolt, from the outside.
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Susan...
You are learning from the same mistakes I made. My bottom units both have a couple holes. On one unit, I had the right size bolt to thread into the hole, with the end of the bolt being flush with the hole in the SC- a good solution as long as I remember that the bolt gets danged hot while roasting. The other unit has a more simple solution- there's a roasted bean lodged in the hole - that works well, except that there must be 20-some beans floating around in the SC, rattling every time I tip it over to dump, reminding me to put my dunce hat on.
Try a screw or a bolt, from the outside.
Actually a carriage bolt with the head on the inside looks like it's gonna work. Excellent suggestion.
It's waaaaay too long, but I can get a shorter one when the holiday is over....
And hopefully I won't grab it !!!!!
Thank You !!!!
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I love it when the dumb things I do get to help someone else. It makes it all worthwhile, and makes me want to do more dumb stuff. :D
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I love it when the dumb things I do get to help someone else. It makes it all worthwhile, and makes me want to do more dumb stuff. :D
Hey, I can use lots of help, so ....
go do more dumb things....
don't hold back :-)))))
Susan
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So, my first roast today -- using the floating probe -- went way too fast. Beans look very nice, but really it was up into the 400 range in 2-3 minutes. So, for the second, I turned off the UFO heater as soon as I poured the beans into the pre-heated roaster. It was looking good, but the probe knocked the whirly arm off and rotation stopped, so I had to abort the roast.
I had been floating the probe through the gap in the spacer ring, but I guess that just gives it too much leeway. As soon as it all cools down a bit I'll get out the dremel and make a slot for the probe..... Yeah, right, I was 'sposed to do that anyway, but....I do tend to learn the hard way. As my friend, Dan, likes to say: "There's never time to do it right; there's always time to do it over...." Sigh.....
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The arms on my UFO go both ways. They start out rotating counterclockwise, but the minute a bean gives a bit of resistance, they just switch directions and go the other way for a while.
This causes minor grief because half the time the chaff is being thrown in the wrong direction.
It causes more significant grief because when it reverses, the probe (which has been bumping along happily on top of the arms as they go by) suddenly ends up underneath the arms when they come back the other way, and it gets dragged all over the place and out of the bean mass.
Does anyone/everyone else's do this?
Gotta solution?
I'm off to buy a 1/8" drill bit to go back to trying to put the probe into a fixed horizontal position .... which would alleviate the second issue.
Susan
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Some are more sensitive to reversing than others. Mine never do.
I would say the chaff flying is more a function of the TO circulation, and that the stirring arms have little to do with chaff.
Lesson to be learned: don't listen to Tex when he says get a UFO, listen to the sages who say get SC.
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Some are more sensitive to reversing than others. Mine never do.
I would say the chaff flying is more a function of the TO circulation, and that the stirring arms have little to do with chaff.
Lesson to be learned: don't listen to Tex when he says get a UFO, listen to the sages who say get SC.
Isn't that a dried up ol' weed, best used on turkeys & gamey meat? ;D
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Some are more sensitive to reversing than others. Mine never do.
I would say the chaff flying is more a function of the TO circulation, and that the stirring arms have little to do with chaff.
Lesson to be learned: don't listen to Tex when he says get a UFO, listen to the sages who say get SC.
Well, I knew Tex and David Mankin long before I met youse guys, and I probably even bought the UFO just before I met all you SC types, so.....now that I have it I'm vaguely stuck with it......
Tex did tell me not so long ago to try to remember that he lies as necessary; I've tried to factor it into my life, but....I'm getting old and I forget....
Susan
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Some are more sensitive to reversing than others. Mine never do.
I would say the chaff flying is more a function of the TO circulation, and that the stirring arms have little to do with chaff.
Lesson to be learned: don't listen to Tex when he says get a UFO, listen to the sages who say get SC.
Well, I knew Tex and David Mankin long before I met youse guys, and I probably even bought the UFO just before I met all you SC types, so.....now that I have it I'm vaguely stuck with it......
Tex did tell me not so long ago to try to remember that he lies as necessary; I've tried to factor it into my life, but....I'm getting old and I forget....
Susan
No, No, No! I'm pretty sure I told you I was a sporting liar, one who lies for the fun of it; as opposed to a compulsive liar, one who lies because he can't help it. ;)
Of course, I may not be telling the whole truth about that either! ;D
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No, No, No! I'm pretty sure I told you I was a sporting liar, one who lies for the fun of it; as opposed to a compulsive liar, one who lies because he can't help it. ;)
Of course, I may not be telling the whole truth about that either! ;D
If I didn't know any better I'd have to say that sounds like a lie.
:-X
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No, No, No! I'm pretty sure I told you I was a sporting liar, one who lies for the fun of it; as opposed to a compulsive liar, one who lies because he can't help it. ;)
Nah, at the time you didn't make those distinctions, but since we're on the subject,
I would suggest "compulsive sporting liar"....:-)))))
Susan
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No, No, No! I'm pretty sure I told you I was a sporting liar, one who lies for the fun of it; as opposed to a compulsive liar, one who lies because he can't help it. ;)
Of course, I may not be telling the whole truth about that either! ;D
If I didn't know any better I'd have to say that sounds like a lie.
:-X
Two obvious comments come to mind;
1) Who the hell said you knew any better? ???
2) It takes one to know one! :P
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Two obvious comments come to mind;
1) Who the hell said you knew any better? ???
2) It takes one to know one! :P
1) Certainly not I.
2) Me ... I never lie.
:angel:
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Some are more sensitive to reversing than others. Mine never do.
I would say the chaff flying is more a function of the TO circulation, and that the stirring arms have little to do with chaff.
Lesson to be learned: don't listen to Tex when he says get a UFO, listen to the sages who say get SC.
UFO's are hypersensitive compared to SC's. I've only had two of them, but I certainly won't be getting any more... Even the Hello Kitty has more TF than the UFO.
The motor direction and orientation of the vanes on the oven give the chaff it's momentum. I have 2 ovens that blow counterclockwise, the rest of them blow clockwise. I have to invert my riser so that the chute points the right way if I use a CCW-blowing oven so that the chaff gets ejected correctly.
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Okay, then, if anyone happens to see an SC available somewhere....lemme know (if I understand correctly they are no longer available new????). No harm in having one of each.....My TO should go with either one....
Although I'll have to read 70049 posts again to figure out what the vagaries are of the SC compared to the UFO....
Ouch !!!!
And, of course you know who will have to answer all my questions -- again....
Susan
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Okay, then, if anyone happens to see an SC available somewhere....lemme know (if I understand correctly they are no longer available new????). No harm in having one of each.....My TO should go with either one....
Although I'll have to read 70049 posts again to figure out what the vagaries are of the SC compared to the UFO....
Ouch !!!!
And, of course you know who will have to answer all my questions -- again....
Susan
And then someone can fashion another riser for you. :D
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Okay, then, if anyone happens to see an SC available somewhere....lemme know (if I understand correctly they are no longer available new????). No harm in having one of each.....My TO should go with either one....
Susan
Why would you think that Susan? You can get one here (http://www.amazon.com/West-Bend-6-Quart-Popcorn-Popper/dp/B00004RC6R), or here (http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/192-9707465-0537643?asin=B00004RC6R&AFID=shopping_df&LNM=Home_and_Garden|Small_Appliances|B00004RC6R&CPNG=appliances&ref=tgt_adv_XSC10001), or here (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4764754) for starters.
:)
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Why would you think that Susan?
:)
Ooops....and Susan gets the booby prize again.....
:-((((((
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And then someone can fashion another riser for you. :D
They have different circumferences?
Oh dear, that is a very serious deal breaker....
Unless, of course, one of my 4-5 rejects from the first go-round fit????
;D ;D ;D
Susan
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Or maybe some kind soul will make another one for you?
(http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/eyes2animate.gif)
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They have different circumferences?
Oh dear, that is a very serious deal breaker....
Unless, of course, one of my 4-5 rejects from the first go-round fit????
;D ;D ;D
Susan
Yeah ... they have the 4 quart and 6 quart sizes ... what size do you need?
:)
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They have different circumferences?
Oh dear, that is a very serious deal breaker....
Unless, of course, one of my 4-5 rejects from the first go-round fit????
;D ;D ;D
Susan
Yeah ... they have the 4 quart and 6 quart sizes ... what size do you need?
:)
Robert and Susan were referring to the different circumferences of the SC and the UFO.
While the SC's come in two sizes, the base is the same in either one.
I volunteer Tex for the new spacer, should Susan need one down the road.
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Robert and Susan were referring to the different circumferences of the SC and the UFO.
While the SC's come in two sizes, the base is the same in either one.
I volunteer Tex for the new spacer, should Susan need one down the road.
Oh ... I see.
Yeah ... I second that nomination.
;D
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Well, to put this line of speculation to rest, my UFO is staying !!!! And won't be upstaged by an SC anytime soon. The 1/8" metal drill bit (with a slight bit of extra circumfrential reaming) made the perfect horizontal, level hole to hold the probe just above the stirring arms. (Okay, one arm bumps just very slightly as it goes underneath, but not enough to stop it.)
If/as/when my UFO takes a powder, I will revisit the pros and cons of the two different popper bases. For now I'm finally getting the hang of it.
Yesterday I set the TO at 410 with the UFO heater on until the probe read 200. Then I poured the beans in, turned the TO UFO off (edit: oops, I didn't turn the TO off, I turned the UFO off), and sailed smoothly up to 300 in 4 1/2 minutes (158, 185, 204, 233, 248, 266, 294, 298). From there to FC1C (edit: First Crack should be written 1C) took another 6 minutes (323, 323, 330, 338, 348, 359, 359, 374, 384, 395, 402). And I dumped the roast 2 1/2 minutes later (410, 413, 420, 420, 435).
I was using BW's "test beans", but I was really happy to see that starting with the lower "charge" temp made a huge difference, and I think I am finally on the way towards ..... home roasted nirvanha !!! or at least towards beans I don't have to throw away !!!!
Susan
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Yesterday I set the TO at 410 with the UFO heater on until the probe read 200. Then I poured the beans in, turned the TO off, and sailed smoothly up to 300 in 4 1/2 minutes (158, 185, 204, 233, 248, 266, 294, 298). From there to FC took another 6 minutes (323, 323, 330, 338, 348, 359, 359, 374, 384, 395, 402). And I dumped the roast 2 1/2 minutes later (410, 413, 420, 420, 435).
Susan
Not to be a nit-picker... (I would pick 'em, if I ever came across them nits)
It looks like the UFO did a respectable job of providing the heat, but if you ever wanted to roast to a profile you'd want to turn the UFO heat off and leave the TO as the heat source.
There are some benefits to letting the roast hover around 350F for a few minutes, as an example.
And the last nit... I'm guessing you wrote 'FC' to mean First Crack, yes? It would be more standard if you wrote 1st, or 1C, since FC is generally meant to be Full City.
Apart from all that, I/we are rejoicing in your HUGE success! Bravo!
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It looks like the UFO did a respectable job of providing the heat, but if you ever wanted to roast to a profile you'd want to turn the UFO heat off and leave the TO as the heat source.
I'm guessing she meant that she turned the heat off of the UFO(SC) instead of the TO...
-Stubbie
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It looks like the UFO did a respectable job of providing the heat, but if you ever wanted to roast to a profile you'd want to turn the UFO heat off and leave the TO as the heat source.
I'm guessing she meant that she turned the heat off of the UFO(SC) instead of the TO...
-Stubbie
Me too, just wanted to be sure.
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Well, to put this line of speculation to rest, my UFO is staying !!!! And won't be upstaged by an SC anytime soon. The 1/8" metal drill bit (with a slight bit of extra circumfrential reaming) made the perfect horizontal, level hole to hold the probe just above the stirring arms. (Okay, one arm bumps just very slightly as it goes underneath, but not enough to stop it.)
If/as/when my UFO takes a powder, I will revisit the pros and cons of the two different popper bases. For now I'm finally getting the hang of it.
Yesterday I set the TO at 410 with the UFO heater on until the probe read 200. Then I poured the beans in, turned the TO off, and sailed smoothly up to 300 in 4 1/2 minutes (158, 185, 204, 233, 248, 266, 294, 298). From there to FC took another 6 minutes (323, 323, 330, 338, 348, 359, 359, 374, 384, 395, 402). And I dumped the roast 2 1/2 minutes later (410, 413, 420, 420, 435).
I was using BW's "test beans", but I was really happy to see that starting with the lower "charge" temp made a huge difference, and I think I am finally on the way towards ..... home roasted nirvanha !!! or at least towards beans I don't have to throw away !!!!
Susan
(image in my mind of espresso monkeys picking nits out of each others hair :-X
be aware that your temperatures may be different with the new probe location... it is not as deep in the bean mass now... this is not a problem just something you have to adjust for.. probably your temps will be a little lower but I am not sure ;)
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I'm guessing she meant that she turned the heat off of the UFO(SC) instead of the TO...
-Stubbie
Absotolutely !!!!
Thanks Stubbie for reading what is left of my mind instead of what I wrote....
Susan
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Susan roasting just got easy
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last night I roasted with my temp probe just over the bean stir rods.. (12 oz batch) the temps ran hotter?? so I guess it was reacting to the TO heat faster.. the roast went as usual but all my temp land marks were at higher temps (caramel zone, 1stCrack) I could smell and see by the smoke where the roast was.. temps were just a little higher
second batch I did with the temp probe in the bean mass... forgot to turn the heat down.. hit 300 in 3:14 used the handle on the TO (30 seconds off 30 seconds on) to slow the roast down between 350 and 375... used the handle again when 1C started getting strong (when the temp levels off or 1C ends turn it back on) then I roasted for 2 min keeping it under 335 (target 330) and that made for a nice profile (I think) (I hope) ???
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last night I roasted with my temp probe just over the bean stir rods.. (12 oz batch) the temps ran hotter?? so I guess it was reacting to the TO heat faster.. the roast went as usual but all my temp land marks were at higher temps (caramel zone, 1stCrack) I could smell and see by the smoke where the roast was.. temps were just a little higher
So, at what temperature markers did you get 1C doing it that way? And what did you get when you put it more directly into the bean mass?
I'm thinking that the current placement of my probe will work just fine as long as I keep in mind that it is a temperature in the process and relative to the temperatures in that place before and after.....rather than an absolute temperature that I can necessarily compare to or relate to anyone else's machine and method. Until I anchored it in that spot it was always being dislodged and skittering about, and then I had no faith whatsoever in the readings. Now at least I see that the beans are almost always in contact with it, if not completely immersed in it, and the temp appeared to rise in a fashion that seemed unrelated to the air coming from the TO (since it didn't vary in a way that might have been related to the fan cycling ....or?). AND, I don't have to have a hand free to mess with it if/as/when it gets tangled or tweaked. I see no way it could be deeper into the bean mass and still in a fixed place, (unless I were to drill up into the bottom of the UFO and thread a thermocouple rather than a probe ....)
For grins, later today I will play with the same settings with a larger (maybe 12 oz and 16 oz) of beans just to see how the temps compare.
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For grins, later today I will play with the same settings with a larger (maybe 12 oz and 16 oz) of beans just to see how the temps compare.
You will be able to use might consider expeirimenting with more bottom heat with 12oz batches.
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For grins, later today I will play with the same settings with a larger (maybe 12 oz and 16 oz) of beans just to see how the temps compare.
You will be able to use might consider expeirimenting with more bottom heat with 12oz batches.
Okay, here's the plan: 12 oz with and without bottom heat and then 16 oz with and without bottom heat. But FIRST I have to clean the house, so......don't be too impatient to read the results:-)))))))
Susan
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Okay, here's the plan: 12 oz with and without bottom heat and then 16 oz with and without bottom heat. But FIRST I have to clean the house, so......don't be too impatient to read the results:-)))))))
The above lends itself perfectly to using batch size and heat control to profile and control the roast exactly the way you choose.....the individual results are less important now and take care of themselves from here. So clean away....I already know what's going to happen anyhow. ;D
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So clean away....
Dang, I was soooooo hoping you'd talk me out of that..... ;D
Susan
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I find that with 16oz. batches, the outside beans roast faster than those toward the center of the SC, because that's where the hot air first comes out of the TO. 14oz. and under works best.
Also, it will help to determine what temp your bottom unit thermostat kicks in and out. Most of them will not come on over 400F. And while they're still in operating range, they can be a real nuisance as they come on when you're trying to hold a temp. Having two thermostats to contend with is a PITA.
The easiest way to tell if your temp probe is in the bean mass is to see how quickly the temps rise when you turn the top heat on; if it takes a couple minutes to start responding that's good, and if it responds quickly you know it's in the airstream.
Cleaning the house? Are you kidding me? I'll let the maid take care of that. I expect to be in a good enough financial position to hire one by this time next year. ;D
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Okay....forget the 12 and 16 ounce roasts with and without bottom heat....
You guys already know what you need to know and I'm never gonna need to roast 16 ounces....
And....now I'm just procrastinating....
Susan
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14oz. and under works best.
14oz is the sweet spot on my Stir Crazy/Galloping Gourmet setup. No bottom heat.
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Okay....forget the 12 and 16 ounce roasts with and without bottom heat....
You guys already know what you need to know and I'm never gonna need to roast 16 ounces....
And....now I'm just procrastinating....
Oh man.....just when it was going good you pulled the plug. :(
16oz is prob pushing it and you would have had to use a lot of heat but as headchange just noted 14oz (no bottom heat) is the best batch size for his set up and 12oz (with bottom heat) happens to be the best for mine. These are all different units, line voltage, ambient conditions, etc..etc..
Yours you were just about to start testing to find out/learn about...... ???
On a good note it sounded like you were SUPER happy with some of the last profiles you tried where the cup had no detectable defects so as always it comes to what winds up in the cup and if we are happy with it. :angel:
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Oh man.....just when it was going good you pulled the plug. :(
Nope, I miscommunicated....
What I'm not going to do is EXACTLY those four roasts I suggested earlier.
No way am I gonna stop practicing and figuring out and telling you what I'm doing....
That wouldn't be any fun at all.....
Susan
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last night I roasted with my temp probe just over the bean stir rods.. (12 oz batch) the temps ran hotter?? so I guess it was reacting to the TO heat faster.. the roast went as usual but all my temp land marks were at higher temps (caramel zone, 1stCrack) I could smell and see by the smoke where the roast was.. temps were just a little higher
So, at what temperature markers did you get 1C doing it that way? And what did you get when you put it more directly into the bean mass?
I'm thinking that the current placement of my probe will work just fine as long as I keep in mind that it is a temperature in the process and relative to the temperatures in that place before and after.....rather than an absolute temperature that I can necessarily compare to or relate to anyone else's machine and method. Until I anchored it in that spot it was always being dislodged and skittering about, and then I had no faith whatsoever in the readings. Now at least I see that the beans are almost always in contact with it, if not completely immersed in it, and the temp appeared to rise in a fashion that seemed unrelated to the air coming from the TO (since it didn't vary in a way that might have been related to the fan cycling ....or?). AND, I don't have to have a hand free to mess with it if/as/when it gets tangled or tweaked. I see no way it could be deeper into the bean mass and still in a fixed place, (unless I were to drill up into the bottom of the UFO and thread a thermocouple rather than a probe ....)
For grins, later today I will play with the same settings with a larger (maybe 12 oz and 16 oz) of beans just to see how the temps compare.
I don't remember :-X
my usual placement (dancing on the bottom of the SC) 1C is about 400 (depending on bean, ambient temp, humidity, Murphy's law) the high probe was a little higher turnaround when I dumped it in.. (usually drops to the mid-low 200 before it climbs up) it turned around at 260 or 270... 1C was probably close to 410...
My point is the numbers change and you have to learn what temp relates to what stage of roast... around 340 to 350 you can smell the sweet change that I believe is the start of caramel zone... and 1C is obvious... and 2C seems to be elusive as far as temp is concerned..
sorry I am disjointed in my thoughts.. we are redoing our kitchen... out of desperation and with no $$ :P
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Chaff Ejector
I just finished the chaff ejection for my first SC-TO and thought that I'd share some pictures.
In my aluminum spacer, I cut a rectangular hole and pop riveted a piece of spring steel over it from the inside to act like a door. With this design, I can leave the door closed to keep the temperature up, and occasionally poke it open with a wooden dowel (or stick) when I see chaff flying around.
After two test roasts, it works better than I expected. Some of the chaff gets stuck between the door and the frame, but I found that tapping the door open and closed a few times helps clear it. I might try to capture a short video if there is any interest.
Also, for my stirring rods, I added small 1" or less pieces of 1/4" copper tubing and crimped small pieces on the ends to keep them from coming off. Very easy to install and works better than I expected.
My only problem right now is a couple of beans always seem to get lodged under the cap that holds the stirring rod, so it looks like I will need to add a large washer or spacer.
You may notice that I did remove the Teflon coating on the SC. I then seasoned it in a toaster oven (coated with cooking oil and baked at 300 F).
So far, I am very happy with the roaster and plan to build a cabinet in the basement to allow me to continue to roast during the winter!
See the attached pictures of the door.
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Nice job grasshopper!
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Here is my chaff ejector
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Thermocoupler placement and drive shaft rebuilt
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Here is my chaff ejector
Hey, I bet that set of Doug's Headers I have in the garage would make cool looking chaff ejectors?
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Where on earth does everyone find silicone tubing for the rim of the spacer? I've checked Lowes, Home Depot and every auto parts store in a 10-mile radius and have come up with nothing.
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Don't knock yourself out; it's debatable if you even need it.
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I've never used it. In fact this is the first I remember hearing about it.
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Where on earth does everyone find silicone tubing for the rim of the spacer? I've checked Lowes, Home Depot and every auto parts store in a 10-mile radius and have come up with nothing.
http://www.mcmaster.com/ (http://www.mcmaster.com/)
One of mine has it & the other doesn't. I don't notice any difference in roaster, but the one that has it is quieter.
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My oven top kinda slides around on the aluminum spacer. I'm just looking for the silicone to keep that part in place.
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My oven top kinda slides around on the aluminum spacer. I'm just looking for the silicone to keep that part in place.
Give it a dozen more roasts, 'til the roastium builds up on the glass, and it will slide a lot less.
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Where on earth does everyone find silicone tubing for the rim of the spacer? I've checked Lowes, Home Depot and every auto parts store in a 10-mile radius and have come up with nothing.
My oven top slides around a lot without the tubing. I bought a length of high-temp silicone tubing from US Plastics (3/16" ID x 5/16" OD). It was 60 cents per foot, available in 10 ft. increments. A slit with scissors made for a quick fit. The turbo oven sits firmly & does not move – nice.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23884&catid=799 (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23884&catid=799)
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Heads up: Target has StirCrazy poppers for $19.99 this week - which is about the best price I've seen these for (new) in years.
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Heads up: Target has StirCrazy poppers for $19.99 this week - which is about the best price I've seen these for (new) in years.
Nice price - Toss in a Convection oven top (http://www.sunpentown.com/paacforov.html) & you've got 99% of a TurboCrazy!
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Heads up: Target has StirCrazy poppers for $19.99 this week - which is about the best price I've seen these for (new) in years.
Thank you! Thank you!
I burned up my last one have been needing a replacement.
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Heads up: Target has StirCrazy poppers for $19.99 this week - which is about the best price I've seen these for (new) in years.
Nice price - Toss in a Convection oven top ([url]http://www.sunpentown.com/paacforov.html[/url]) & you've got 99% of a TurboCrazy!
It was a sad day when Sunpentown figured out what we were doing with those "replacement" tops, and jacked the price up from $25 to $45...
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Heads up: Target has StirCrazy poppers for $19.99 this week - which is about the best price I've seen these for (new) in years.
Nice price - Toss in a Convection oven top ([url]http://www.sunpentown.com/paacforov.html[/url]) & you've got 99% of a TurboCrazy!
It was a sad day when Sunpentown figured out what we were doing with those "replacement" tops, and jacked the price up from $25 to $45...
I didn't rat us out :angel: - must've been that troublemaker, Susan >:D! At one time if you entered 'Stir Crazy' in the Amazon search field it would produce a convection oven in the alternative suggestions.
But hey, <$100 for a great 1# - 2# roaster: I'd say it was still dirt cheap!
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I picked up a replacement analog top from supentown a year or so ago. In looking at their site today I noticed that not only do they have a nano-carbon fiber heating top but they have a new model that has a tall skirt to sit over a wok. That would elmenate the spring form pan completely if it would sit on top of a Stir Crazy or UFO. The lid dimention is 13.5 inches in diam. Only problem is they don't sell it as a top only, yet.
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Anyone used a SO-2002/SO-2007 top long enough to report on it's reliability?
BTW: Here's the cheapest price I found for the SO-2007: http://www.livingincomfort.com/ka30827.html (http://www.livingincomfort.com/ka30827.html)
Caveat emptor!
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Anyone used a SO-2002/SO-2007 top long enough to report on it's reliability?
BTW: Here's the cheapest price I found for the SO-2007: [url]http://www.livingincomfort.com/ka30827.html[/url] ([url]http://www.livingincomfort.com/ka30827.html[/url])
Caveat emptor!
I have not used the SO2007TurboWok personally, but I was told that it did not have as much power as the SO-2000 and SO-2001 by another homeroaster that wasn't too happy with his (that guy used the wok base and a motor instead of a StirCrazy). I heard the same thing about the SO-2002. I feel compelled to investigate...
I just ordered the TurboWok from your link. I found a promo code that gets you $5 off, as well, so it was only $57.90 with shipping. The promo code is 'WELCOME'
Will report back after this beast shows up.
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Anyone used a SO-2002/SO-2007 top long enough to report on it's reliability?
BTW: Here's the cheapest price I found for the SO-2007: [url]http://www.livingincomfort.com/ka30827.html[/url] ([url]http://www.livingincomfort.com/ka30827.html[/url])
Caveat emptor!
I have not used the SO2007TurboWok personally, but I was told that it did not have as much power as the SO-2000 and SO-2001 by another homeroaster that wasn't too happy with his (that guy used the wok base and a motor instead of a StirCrazy). I heard the same thing about the SO-2002. I feel compelled to investigate...
I just ordered the TurboWok from your link. I found a promo code that gets you $5 off, as well, so it was only $57.90 with shipping. The promo code is 'WELCOME'
Will report back after this beast shows up.
Thanks! ;D If it was underpowered couldn't you use the heater in the Stir Crazy (most folks disconnect it).
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...Thanks! ;D If it was underpowered couldn't you use the heater in the Stir Crazy (most folks disconnect it).
Tex - that T/O used in the photo I sent you yesterday (chicken photo) is my backup oven, and it doesn't crank out enough BTUs to roast coffee effectively. If I remember right, it hits 1st crack in 16-18 minutes at full tilt. My other oven top hits 1st w/ my UFO rig in 11-13. Buying these guys used in thrift shops keeps me from knowing element wattage output!
David
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...Thanks! ;D If it was underpowered couldn't you use the heater in the Stir Crazy (most folks disconnect it).
Tex - that T/O used in the photo I sent you yesterday (chicken photo) is my backup oven, and it doesn't crank out enough BTUs to roast coffee effectively. If I remember right, it hits 1st crack in 16-18 minutes at full tilt. My other oven top hits 1st w/ my UFO rig in 11-13. Buying these guys used in thrift shops keeps me from knowing element wattage output!
David
OK David,
Since I have to turn mine down to 450° to keep from hitting 1st crack too soon, I guess there is a big disparity between top units. BTW: Mine is an off-brand that I picked up on eBay for $27 shipped.
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All I've ever used is used ones from egay, Galloping Gourmets and Decosonics, and they all seem about the same regardless of wattage. Of the two I currently use, one is 1200W and the other is 1470, but they both roast about the same speed. A new member, grover, was over here Saturday with a new Sunpentown s-2000. We didn't time it, but it sure looked to be about the same in its ability to roast.
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... We didn't time it, but it sure looked to be about the same in its ability to roast.
Perhaps its not the model or its specs... maybe my backup oven is just plain crappy! :BangHead:
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Yeah, every individual oven seems to have it's own quirks, but it seems to me that the two main factors are the area of the vent and how many cubic inches you have created as a roasting area (based on the size of the riser). I usually use a 2" riser made out of aluminum with about 1/2 square inch vent area. I tried a 3" riser once but it slowed the roast down too much. The vent dynamics can also create hot spots inside the roaster. I had one stir crazy that had a big crack in it that was allowing air to blow out under the riser, and that created a hot spot that resulted in uneven roasts. When I noticed that, and taped it over with aluminum tape, it went back to normal.
If you frequently blow the oven out with compressed air to remove chaff and dust, it will last a lot longer and work better, too.
Galloping Gourmets always seem to be more durable to me. The digital Sunpentown (SO-2001) and the Aroma were the two least durable I have used. I always have a couple of backups laying around, so when an oven starts wussing out after about 800-1000 roasts I usually just shelve it and grab another. My main Galloping Gourmet that is in use now probably has 1500 roasts under it's belt, and is still blowing hot.
BTW- I never disconnect the SC heater. It helps dry the beans quicker, and since it only goes up to about 350, it doesn't significantly impact the main developmental parts of the ramp. With a 20oz or 24oz batch, the water would probably get driven off too slowly without that extra power.
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Yeah, every individual oven seems to have it's own quirks, but it seems to me that the two main factors are the area of the vent and how many cubic inches you have created as a roasting area (based on the size of the riser). ...
Another factor that snuck up on me was that some ovens blow clockwise - others blow counterclockwise. My backup spins the other way, and I have to reverse the spacer ring so the chaff ejector opening is still effective!
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Yeah, every individual oven seems to have it's own quirks, but it seems to me that the two main factors are the area of the vent and how many cubic inches you have created as a roasting area (based on the size of the riser). ...
Another factor that snuck up on me was that some ovens blow clockwise - others blow counterclockwise. My backup spins the other way, and I have to reverse the spacer ring so the chaff ejector opening is still effective!
Yeah, I put a TurboCrazy together for a Dr. down the street, who calls me the next Saturday morning - the chaff ejector isn't working for his 2nd batch. I walked down the street, flipped the ring over and walked back out. His jaw was dragging the floor, and now he thinks I'm a genius for figuring out the problem so quickly. ;D
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Yeah, I put a TurboCrazy together for a Dr. down the street, who calls me the next Saturday morning - the chaff ejector isn't working for his 2nd batch. I walked down the street, flipped the ring over and walked back out. His jaw was dragging the floor, and now he thinks I'm a genius for figuring out the problem so quickly. ;D
The man does not have his advanced degree in common sense, does he? :violent1:
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I went to the Target midway between work and home tonight to snag a StirCrazy... and walked out with raincheck. >:(
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I just ordered the TurboWok from your link. I found a promo code that gets you $5 off, as well, so it was only $57.90 with shipping. The promo code is 'WELCOME'
Will report back after this beast shows up.
That was quick - got here in 4 days by UPS from Maryland. The box only has Japanese writing on it, no English whatsoever... I'll give this sucker a go first thing in the morning, after I make a shorter riser. The handles of the stir crazy prevent the oven from sitting down directly on the popper. I think I have some 3/4" aluminum left from making chaff collectors from Poppery I's.
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Okay, this SO-2007 Wok thingy sucks - at least the shape of it does. The arc of the lid requires you to remove the handles of the stir crazy or else use such a tall riser that the interior volume is excessive. Also, the arc of the lid causes the thing to slip around on the riser unless you have Silastic tubing on the riser rim (which I really prefer not to use) for some grippage. I took an old SC and chopped off the handles, used a 3/4" riser with Silastic high-temp silicone tubing around the rim, and was able to roast a batch in a comparable amount of time with an okay ramp. The new element heats up in no time flat, and the fans seem to work very efficiently, so I am planning to try swapping the glass lid with one from a different TO to see how well the oven works compared to the old school turbo oven heads on my normal system.
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Okay, this SO-2007 Wok thingy sucks - at least the shape of it does. The arc of the lid requires you to remove the handles of the stir crazy or else use such a tall riser that the interior volume is excessive. Also, the arc of the lid causes the thing to slip around on the riser unless you have Silastic tubing on the riser rim (which I really prefer not to use) for some grippage. I took an old SC and chopped off the handles, used a 3/4" riser with Silastic high-temp silicone tubing around the rim, and was able to roast a batch in a comparable amount of time with an okay ramp. The new element heats up in no time flat, and the fans seem to work very efficiently, so I am planning to try swapping the glass lid with one from a different TO to see how well the oven works compared to the old school turbo oven heads on my normal system.
Unless the new heater provides a measurable improvement over the 2000/2001 models, I'd say the 2009 oven is more trouble that it's worth. Is there any way to predict the new elements life expectancy compared to the old-style elements?
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Unless the new heater provides a measurable improvement over the 2000/2001 models, I'd say the 2009 oven is more trouble that it's worth. Is there any way to predict the new elements life expectancy compared to the old-style elements?
I can't imagine that it would be as durable, considering the thin, spirally, carbon filament is enclosed in a glass tube, where the old school ovens have more like a traditional electric oven element.
The wok itself is really nice! I have been fantasizing about drilling a hole in it and making my own, more powerful, bean-stirring system to replace the SC. That way the top would fit perfectly, and even though the volume would be large, with a little heat tape on the wok I could possibly do a 2# batch.
Another interesting aside - the box the thing came in had no English writing on it at all, it was all in Japanese.
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...I have been fantasizing about drilling a hole in it and making my own, more powerful, bean-stirring system to replace the SC.
BW - I have a round chafing dish and an electric ice cream maker motor waiting for me to attempt to make a 2 lb. roaster out of them. The ice cream maker motor has lots of torque, and the chafing dish sits up on its stilts to accommodate the sterno canister. Some day...
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...I have been fantasizing about drilling a hole in it and making my own, more powerful, bean-stirring system to replace the SC.
BW - I have a round chafing dish and an electric ice cream maker motor waiting for me to attempt to make a 2 lb. roaster out of them. The ice cream maker motor has lots of torque, and the chafing dish sits up on its stilts to accommodate the sterno canister. Some day...
I've got a couple of those motors, myself! That's a great idea about the chafing dish...
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Another factor that snuck up on me was that some ovens blow clockwise - others blow counterclockwise. My backup spins the other way, and I have to reverse the spacer ring so the chaff ejector opening is still effective!
Interesting. I had no idea there was a direction to the oven blowing. I thought it was the arms of the popper that determined which way the chaff blew.... Okay, I guess only having been using this thing for under a year you could excuse me for not having picked up on that.....yet....or maybe not....
I'll have to look more closely next time I haul it out for a roast....
Susan
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Susan, If you look up from the underneath the TO, you'll likely see basically 2 things (probably under a safety shroud of some sort) - a heating element and a plate with vanes (fan) that spins to move the air (hence-convection). Some motors spin CW, others CCW. I have one of each.
David
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Susan, If you look up from the underneath the TO, you'll likely see basically 2 things (probably under a safety shroud of some sort) - a heating element and a plate with vanes (fan) that spins to move the air (hence-convection). Some motors spin CW, others CCW. I have one of each.
David
To make matters worse, most ovens have fans that pull air up (intake) in the center so they blow down on the sides, but others have fans that blow down in the center so the intake is on the sides. [I call this the direction of toroidal convection] You can see this by looking at where chaff collects on the shroud: either in the middle or the sides... Again, a reminder for all SC/TO users, blow out your oven head with compressed air from time-to-time. It improves operation and will increase the lifespan of the unit.
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My bad, Tex. He never mentioned aluminum. Here's the description of his roaster from his photo site:
* Salton UFO popcorn popper (now discontinued, but still available)
* Galloping Gourmet Digital Convection Oven (top only)
* HVAC duct - 12" x 10" transition (cut down)
* High-temp RTV silicone sealant
* High-temp silicone tubing
I am curious of the wattage of his oven. My TO is 20 years old - and would not be able to roast effectively from that height.
David
Sorry to be absent from this thread for so long. Wish I could insert this reply back into the early parts of this thread, about 16 pages back.
Yes, it's galvanized. :o I knew about the zinc, but did not expect the beans to come into contact with the spacer ring. Even so, I think it would be better to use aluminum, and I'll probably do that.
And to your question about the oven's power--I don't recall the wattage, but you're exactly right. It did not roast well at that height. I ended up cutting the ring down about another inch, barely above the chaff ejector. It's still weaker than I'd like. I typically run it full blast until done.
Jack
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The ORIGINAL UFO/TO (I believe I made the 1st of these) just HAD to come out & roast a fresh batch of Red Sea Blend (thanks Chad!), even though we were recently buried by almost 2 feet of snow. In spite of the ambient 35 degree temps, 1st crack arrived at about 10.5 minutes, and I was able to coast to 2nd around 16.5 minutes. The usual 'roasting table' on my back deck is still covered with snow, so my front stoop & 'little' bean cooler was used.
Christmas morning - FRESH coffee!
Happy Holidays, All!
David
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The ORIGINAL UFO/TO (I believe I made the 1st of these) just HAD to come out & roast a fresh batch of Red Sea Blend (thanks Chad!), even though we were recently buried by almost 2 feet of snow. In spite of the ambient 35 degree temps, 1st crack arrived at about 10.5 minutes, and I was able to coast o 2nd around 16.5 minutes. The usual 'roasting table' on my back deck is still covered with snow, so my front stoop & 'little' bean cooler was used.
Christmas morning - FRESH coffee!
Happy Holidays, All!
David
Since word has by now gotten around the neighborhood that you roasted today, I expect a line at your door that stretches around the block tomorrow. "Hey mister, can you spare a cup of coffee? Starbuck's is closed for Christmas."
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Since word has by now gotten around the neighborhood that you roasted today, I expect a line at your door that stretches around the block tomorrow. "Hey mister, can you spare a cup of coffee? Starbuck's is closed for Christmas."
Not a chance of me answering the door with this Red Sea Blend - might be my best batch of coffee to date. Tex - I'll PM you the top-secret knock for special access. :violent1:
Cheers,
David
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Hi,
Has anyone try Westbend Kettle Krazy? It seems to have metal drive shaft and very sturdy agitator, does it work with a Turbo oven?
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Westbend Kettle Krazy (http://www.focuselectrics.com/catalog.cfm?dest=itempg&itemid=4534&secid=54&linkon=subsection&linkid=126) looks interesting, but I wonder how high the stirring shaft sticks up? You'd have to figure a way to secure the riser to the sides of the bottom unit - other poppers have a lip for it to rest on.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41rQK1MhjkL.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B002JM100Q/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0?ie=UTF8&index=0)
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I just got 3 stir-crazies from local thrift store for about $3 each. Looking forward to constructing this roaster.
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I just got 3 stir-crazies from local thrift store for about $3 each. Looking forward to constructing this roaster.
don't be afraid to ask for advice... we are FULL of advice ;D
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I was using my digital thermometer to log some roast data today and noticed the turbo oven has some serious dead band issues; maybe as much as 25°? I had one roaster that I PID'd to get around this, but it was clumsy to adjust the set point as the roast progressed.
I like the initial temp to be set @400°F for ~11 minutes, then I turn it up to 450°F until I hear the outliers of 1st crack, then it's back down to 400°F through 1st crack. When I hear 2nd crack's first outliers I crank it up to 500°F.
As you can see that'd be a lot of PID manipulation. The analog controls of the CO are simple to manipulate, but there's the problem of the dead band of the mechanical bi-metallic tstats.
I'm thinking that what is needed is a roaster with the elements always on @100%, with a variac to control the percentage of power being applied. I'm picking up a used CO top this week and I'll pull it apart and wire it directly to the variac.
My question is: Should I also set the fan up to be variable as well? A setup like this would pretty much mimic the Hottop, wouldn't it?
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consider this.. (my current set up)
TO fan is on one plug... it stays on constant..
TO heat is on another plug, dial on high.. it is plugged into a relay controlled by the PID
the PID is a thermometer for the most part, I lift the handle on the TO to cut the heat (but not the fan) if I want to slow the progress of the roast and I lift the lid to see the beans and factor that into the roast curve (all mental/zen like roasting)
the PID is usually set around 430 F so it dose start to turn on and off as I get close but at its current settings I can easily find second crack if I want..
separate the heat and fan, keep the heat wired through the TO handle kill switch and try it.. add the variac with plug and and an outlet if it doesn't work.. I like modular then I can move things around between experiments :D
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consider this.. (my current set up)
TO fan is on one plug... it stays on constant..
TO heat is on another plug, dial on high.. it is plugged into a relay controlled by the PID
the PID is a thermometer for the most part, I lift the handle on the TO to cut the heat (but not the fan) if I want to slow the progress of the roast and I lift the lid to see the beans and factor that into the roast curve (all mental/zen like roasting)
the PID is usually set around 430 F so it dose start to turn on and off as I get close but at its current settings I can easily find second crack if I want..
separate the heat and fan, keep the heat wired through the TO handle kill switch and try it.. add the variac with plug and and an outlet if it doesn't work.. I like modular then I can move things around between experiments :D
Here's the problem I saw as I was logging the data: The CO controls do not manage power, only the set point temp (ex: if you set the controls to 400°F, the power is on 100% until the tstat reads 400°F - then the element shuts off until the bottom range of the dead bands is reached).
If you're running the CO through the controls, then you're dealing with a thermostat if the tstats preset is reached. And a PID won't change the need to control the power - it's still running the element at 100% to a predetermined set point, then shutting the element off. Granted, it's turning the element on/off in a more controlled manner, but it's also only doing that for one temp. To change the PID set point requires changing the PID parameters, not that simple to do on the fly.
I'm going to wire the element directly to the variac (at house current) and manage the power and fan separately, just like the Hottop. This way I can run the CO at a fixed percentage until I reach a certain temp, then change the percentage until the next temp milestone is reached. It won't be programmable, but it will be very repeatable.
example: 50% power to 350°, then up the power to 75° until 400°, then drop power to 50%, and coast through 1st crack, and when 2nd crack begins run the power to 100%. The same pattern would probably be necessary for the fan.
It's a similar problem we have with PID's in espresso machines. A PID isn't very useful in maintaining intra-shot temps. The PID's strength is achieving predictable and stable starting temp in an espresso machine. Based on what I observed with the TurboCrazy I PID'd, the temp is better managed with power and fan control than by trying to manage temps using a PID's set point.
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I went down that path you are on and found the Turbo Oven controls to be too inaccurate roast to roast.. bean to bean.. that is why I set the TO on full power and just turn on and of the heat with the kill switch in the handle in the lid.. I am my PID and the temp readings I am getting from the bean mass are my guide to slowing the roast.. the stir crazy heat is off the TO is on 100% (unless I raise that handle, then it is off till I lower the handle back down.. no variac, just separated heat and fan.. I may try and get the PID to work for me some day but for now this setup is working fine... maybe the key for me is I am in the garage, it has its own electrical service so their is no great load on the system but me roasting
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I split the wiring on my oven and run the fan directly to the outlet and run the element through a "router speed controller" that I picked up at Harbor Freight for about $20. This allows me to control the amount of power going to the heating element without buying an expensive variac and also avoids the dead band on the standard thermostat.
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I split the wiring on my oven and run the fan directly to the outlet and run the element through a "router speed controller" that I picked up at Harbor Freight for about $20. This allows me to control the amount of power going to the heating element without buying an expensive variac and also avoids the dead band on the standard thermostat.
I've got one of those that I played with for awhile - varying the group pressure on Gaggia's and Silvia's, rather than adjusting the OPV. I hadn't thought of using it in place of a variac in this application. Maybe I'll use two: one for the element and one for the fan.
The only drawback is the lack of a way to measure the output accurately. I wonder if a Kill-A-Watt hooked up to the output, and before the element, work suffice?
Hmmm...???
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I'm sure it would I just adjust it higher if I want more heat and lower if I want less. I am using two thermocouples in the roaster, one in the bean mass and one in the air space that I use to adjust my heat. It isn't hard to reach over and bump it up or down a little if needed.
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I'm sure it would I just adjust it higher if I want more heat and lower if I want less. I am using two thermocouples in the roaster, one in the bean mass and one in the air space that I use to adjust my heat. It isn't hard to reach over and bump it up or down a little if needed.
Two t/c's...? Why didn't I think of that? That's why I bought the Tenma 72-7712. Duh!
T1 to measure the bean mass temp & log data
T2 to measure air temp and make temp adjustments using variac
What air temp do you shoot for as you're ramping up to 1st crack? I currently preheat to 200°F before I dump the beans. The temp immediately drops to ~145°F before it begins climbing again. This is with the TO's power at 100%.
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I'm sure it would I just adjust it higher if I want more heat and lower if I want less. I am using two thermocouples in the roaster, one in the bean mass and one in the air space that I use to adjust my heat. It isn't hard to reach over and bump it up or down a little if needed.
Two t/c's...? Why didn't I think of that? That's why I bought the Tenma 72-7712. Duh!
T1 to measure the bean mass temp & log data
T2 to measure air temp and make temp adjustments using variac
What air temp do you shoot for as you're ramping up to 1st crack? I currently preheat to 200°F before I dump the beans. The temp immediately drops to ~145°F before it begins climbing again. This is with the TO's power at 100%.
Well I am still doing lots of experimenting. For instance, last night I removed the "heat shield" to see if I could get faster ramps using some of the radiant heat from the element. Still not convinced it made a difference but fun trying. Before I removed the shield I would ramp up to 475-490 and hold depending on the roast desired. My "favorite" profile so far preheat to 200, dump, beans drop to the 150 area but begin rising quickly. Hold air temp around 350 until 5 minutes, bean temp usually right around 295-305, then full blast until I reach my final temperature mentioned
above. Total roast times with a three minute finish from FC to end is around 12-14 minutes roasting a 300-350g batch.
My next modification is to create a way to close the chaff vent so I don't lose as much heat when I don't need to. Excuse my rambling.
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My next modification is to create a way to close the chaff vent so I don't lose as much heat when I don't need to.
Check out my Chaff Ejector mod on page 21 of this thread, it might be what you are looking for.
Basically, I have a hole in my aluminum spacer covered with a flap of spring steel that I can push open when I want to let some chaff out.
Works great.
Good luck!
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Hi, how did you remove the teflon.Rich
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It wasn't easy.
I used a power drill with a sanding wheel, something like this:
80 grit Flap Sanding Wheel - 20,000 RPM - 1" x 3"
http://www.amazon.com/80-grit-Flap-Sanding-Wheel/dp/B002UFVF3E (http://www.amazon.com/80-grit-Flap-Sanding-Wheel/dp/B002UFVF3E)
Get a good mask so you don't breathe it. Be patient.
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Check out my Chaff Ejector mod on page 21 of this thread, it might be what you are looking for.
Basically, I have a hole in my aluminum spacer covered with a flap of spring steel that I can push open when I want to let some chaff out.
Works great.
Good luck!
A link would be useful when you're trying to direct someone to a thread or post within a thread - click on the subject of a particular post and copy that URL into your reply.
ex: This will give you richdel's brief tutorial on making pizza dough: http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10640.msg163195#msg163195 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10640.msg163195#msg163195)
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Here's a clip showing how I measure bean temp.
UFO-CO thermocouple placement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klqygyh0Nqc#)
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I thought I would share a couple of general profiles that I have been using lately which net different results in the cup. This is just the beginning of my experimentation, but these results are after over 100 successful(ish) roasts using my GG/UFO roaster. The UFO has the heater disabled and the GG wiring is split so that the fan is on full all the time and the heater element is controlled using a router speed controller. My batches are all 285g to keep the results more consistent. I don't have the records in front of me, but the exact numbers are not the important part to me.
First profile - this has generated a slightly sweeter cup with a good overall balance.
Preheat to 350F as measure by the BT probe, let temperature stabilize for at least 5 minutes.
Drop beans in and switch heater to full.
When ET Probe returns to 350F adjust heat imput to coast until 4 minute mark.
Switch back to full until 400F ET, coast until 8 minute mark (BT is usually around 360F at this point)
Switch to full again until 450F ET and allow temp to raise slowly but not exceeding 475F.
1C is usually around 12-14 minutes and roast is concluded between 3-4 minutes thereafter once I hit my final target BT (usually 425-430) pre -2C
Second profile - this profile tends to accentuate the brightness in the cup and is what I prefer for DP Ethiopians especially
Preheat to 400F as measured by the BT probe, let temperature stabilize for at least 5 minutes.
Drop beans in and switch heater to full.
When ET Probe hits 400F reduce heat imput to try and stabilize until BT Probe reaches 360F (this averages around 8 minutes on my setup)
Return to full heat until ET reaches 450F and reduce heat to a slow rise, not exceeding 475F.
1C is usually around 10-12 minutes and roast is concluded between 3-4 minutes thereafter once I hit my final target BT (usually 420-430F)
These aren't scientific by any means, but the results have been repeatable and enjoyable. I have tried other suggestions and with modifications have settle on these two profiles as my starting points depending on what I want from a bean. The second profile may be too much for a softer, lower grown bean, but I don't know for sure since all of my current inventory is high-grown, hard bean coffee. Feel free to try this out and comment or make any suggestions or questions.
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(snipped)
Preheat to 350F as measure by the BT probe, let temperature stabilize for at least 5 minutes.
(snipped)
Isn't 5 minutes a bit long to preheat? There are no heavy objects needing that long to bring to a stable temp. If you roasted in an enclosed chamber it might make sense to preheat for a long period, but all you're doing is pouring heat into the atmosphere.
Or, am I misreading what you're saying? Are you holding the temp at 350° for the full 5 minutes or are you just bringing the temp to 350° and shutting it off and waiting 5 minutes?
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(snipped)
Preheat to 350F as measure by the BT probe, let temperature stabilize for at least 5 minutes.
(snipped)
Isn't 5 minutes a bit long to preheat? There are no heavy objects needing that long to bring to a stable temp. If you roasted in an enclosed chamber it might make sense to preheat for a long period, but all you're doing is pouring heat into the atmosphere.
Or, am I misreading what you're saying? Are you holding the temp at 350° for the full 5 minutes or are you just bringing the temp to 350° and shutting it off and waiting 5 minutes?
I am holding the temp at 350 for 5 minutes so that the roasting chamber (base, spacer and glass top) are all up to temperature allowing the beans to do the majority of the heat absorption. Dumping beans in without preheating would waste a lot of the heat output as the roast chamber absorbs the heat as well. 5 minutes may be more than needed, but I'd rather err on the safe side.
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On Supentown.com, they have three TO tops, the 2000, 2002, and 2007. From the pictures, it appears that the 2000 and 2007 have the handle with the switch that turns the oven off, and that the 2002 has digital controls. I gather from BW's comments earlier in this thread that the 2007 is too much trouble to fit to a UFO/SC bottom, and has less power (because of the increased height from the shape of the glass?). Is there any reason to prefer the 2002 (at $65) over the 2000 (at $55)?
Chuck
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I wasn't aware that there was a power difference between the various Sunpentowns. But then I've never seen much if any difference in roasting between my Decosonic w/ 1275W and Galloping Gourmet w/ 1400W.
Stay away from the digital controls. I think they all have the switch on the handle. You can open it up and bypass that switch, or you can fashion a new handle out of something like a coat hanger so you can lift the TO up w/o raising the stock handle.
My money would be on the SO-2000.
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I like it when the best is the cheapest! <g>
You don't say why, but I assume the analog controls are better because they are easier and faster to operate. At least that's what it looked like to me. But I asked because it was not clear whether the digital controls allowed more control.
I'll take your advice, and get to work on my old popper base and spacer. And I need to find a new sensor for my digital thermometer, as the last one stopped working after I dropped it in the brew pot when making beer!
Thanks for the help.
Chuck
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The 2000 it is. Just ordered it, and I'm looking forward to it.
Meanwhile, I got my old StirCrazy down from that high shelf where it has resided for years after many years as a popcorn popper. Man, that thing was nasty! I took it apart and soaked it in a hot GloJo solution. It has a metal shaft, but a kind of plastic spacer of some sort. I'm soaking it in GloJo to get the grime off. Then I'll figure out if I need to replace the shaft with a bolt, or just replace the spacer with some nuts.
On my SC, the heater was easy to remove. I see no reason to reinstall it. I'll bag it and hold onto it for a bit, but I don't see that it will be needed.
I'm not too sure the motor will be up to the task. It was struggling to start turning before I tore it down to soak everything (except the motor, of course). We'll see.
Chuck
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I've got a spare motor if yours is shot. You wouldn't think so by looking at it, but the motor is not the weak link it appears to be.
I'd suggest leaving the shaft as it is until you see it won't cut it. It's a PITA having a meltdown in the middle of the roast, but it's more of a PITA if your shaft mod isn't perfect and it impacts each batch. With your SC heating element disabled, I doubt that you'll ever get hot enough to ruin the stock shaft. Sometimes the plastic shafts just get fatigued and break, but it's still smart IMO to leave them alone until necessary.
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Looking at the parts more closely, I see that the top part of the shaft is metal, but that there is a plastic spacer between the top part and the motor. I'm inclined to leave the plastic piece there and see how it goes, since the part that will be heated is metal.
Thanks for the motor offer. I'll reassemble and test everything tonight.
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Looking at the parts more closely, I see that the top part of the shaft is metal, but that there is a plastic spacer between the top part and the motor. I'm inclined to leave the plastic piece there and see how it goes, since the part that will be heated is metal.
Thanks for the motor offer. I'll reassemble and test everything tonight.
that metal threaded peace i the best.. my collection has one of those and it has held up very well (guess I jinxed it now).. the all plastic with a metal insert added after the plastic threads melted comes loose easy so I will be working on the socket+bolt+jb weld mod when I set up a second roaster
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This is a mod that I made for my motor and stir arm, seems to work great. I found a Motor that would run at 15 RPMs it has a 1/4 inch shaft.(http://)
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Stir arm for my roaster
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This is a mod that I made for my motor and stir arm, seems to work great. I found a Motor that would run at 15 RPMs it has a 1/4 inch shaft.(http://)
Wow, that shaft mod looks awesome! Do you have a part number that you'd be willing to divulge for the motor? How many ounces of beans can you manage at a time?
(http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/ears.gif)
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I found these motors in China, I was able to get 4 of them at a local appliance store they were kinda expensive like $35.00 each however I can get them at a affordable price but they want me to order 500 at once.I would order them if I could get enough interest in them. Just need to get my money back.As for the drive shaft and stir arm, I made them by hand. Know that I got it figured out I can make them pretty fast.I have done 1.5 lbs with this stir arm, but I am thinking that I will trim a little off to get down 16OZ.The higher rpms really makes a big differance in a more even roast.Rich
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The motor's dead. Well, very sick. <g>
PM sent to Peter.
Chuck
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Want to do larger batches. I posted a pic of this on the roaster forum earlier, but thought I'd post it here, along with an update, since it is a close relative of the SC/TO. It is a Krups ice cream machine base for the motor, a Farberware electric skillet and the Turbo oven. I made a shaft out of a bolt, a tee nut, some copper strip and a wingnut. I can control the heat with both the TO and the thermostat on the skillet.
It does larger batches- I usually do around 1 # plus 3 or 4 ounces depending on the coffee. I could easilly get a 2 # batch out of it if needed.
I recently did 5 # (roasted) on back to back batches recently and had no issues. So far I've done about 15 # in it total for Christmas and all. It is great.
Just thought I'd share this in case anyone using the SC/TO was looking for something that can do a little larger batches. Cost about 30 bucks to build with everything except the nuts and bolts being found at Goodwill.
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I thought I would share a couple of general profiles that I have been using lately which net different results in the cup. This is just the beginning of my experimentation, but these results are after over 100 successful(ish) roasts using my GG/UFO roaster. The UFO has the heater disabled and the GG wiring is split so that the fan is on full all the time and the heater element is controlled using a router speed controller. My batches are all 285g to keep the results more consistent. I don't have the records in front of me, but the exact numbers are not the important part to me.
First profile - this has generated a slightly sweeter cup with a good overall balance.
Preheat to 350F as measure by the BT probe, let temperature stabilize for at least 5 minutes.
Drop beans in and switch heater to full.
When ET Probe returns to 350F adjust heat imput to coast until 4 minute mark.
Switch back to full until 400F ET, coast until 8 minute mark (BT is usually around 360F at this point)
Switch to full again until 450F ET and allow temp to raise slowly but not exceeding 475F.
1C is usually around 12-14 minutes and roast is concluded between 3-4 minutes thereafter once I hit my final target BT (usually 425-430) pre -2C
Second profile - this profile tends to accentuate the brightness in the cup and is what I prefer for DP Ethiopians especially
Preheat to 400F as measured by the BT probe, let temperature stabilize for at least 5 minutes.
Drop beans in and switch heater to full.
When ET Probe hits 400F reduce heat imput to try and stabilize until BT Probe reaches 360F (this averages around 8 minutes on my setup)
Return to full heat until ET reaches 450F and reduce heat to a slow rise, not exceeding 475F.
1C is usually around 10-12 minutes and roast is concluded between 3-4 minutes thereafter once I hit my final target BT (usually 420-430F)
These aren't scientific by any means, but the results have been repeatable and enjoyable. I have tried other suggestions and with modifications have settle on these two profiles as my starting points depending on what I want from a bean. The second profile may be too much for a softer, lower grown bean, but I don't know for sure since all of my current inventory is high-grown, hard bean coffee. Feel free to try this out and comment or make any suggestions or questions.
blzrfn:
Thanks for these profiles. Do you log the BT temps? Based on your description, I could come up with approximate trajectories, but if you have some logs, I'd love to see them.
Thanks,
Phil
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Thanks to help from Peter, and loads of information I found here, I did my first two batches in my SC/TO today! I learned some things, and discovered "opportunities" for improvement. Having only previously roasted in an iRoast2, the very low volume was much appreciated, but it will take me some work to get the consistency of results I had with the iR2.
From what I read here, I decided to start with the TO warmed up at the 420F setting (the new temperature probe for my thermometer didn't arrive yet, so I'm flying blind!). After a 3-minute warm-up, I dumped in the beans and waited expectantly. Within a couple of minutes the beans were browning, and 1C started really fast. I turned the temperature down to 380F. Things happened so fast I didn't have time to record exact times, but I think 1C started before 6 minutes, and came out of the gate roaring. It roared right into 2C, without any noticeable transition, and I dumped the smoking beans around 10 minutes. The roast was uneven and darker than I intended, the darker beans approximating a French Roast, the lighter ones closer to the FC+ I would normally aim for (did I screw up the abbreviations?).
After cooling my first batch, I decided to do a second. This time I warmed up at 380F for 3 minutes and dumped in the beans. 1C started slowly just before 7 minutes, and slowly ramped up until it was rolling at 8 minutes. Again it transitioned into 2C without any real pause, at around 9:30, but it was much slower than the first time. I dumped the beans around 11-12 minutes. This second batch was a whole lot more consistent, and also was pretty close to FC+ I normally aim for, although maybe slightly darker.
I attach pictures of the two batches. It should be apparent that the second roast was much better.
During these initial roasts, I learned that the spacer that I made out of an aluminum yardstick (1" wide) needs to be attached to the SC, as the weight of the TO kept pushing it down during the first roast. The second time I sort of expanded it so it would maintain some outward pressure, and the TO didn't push it down. But I need to attach it so I won't burn holes through the thumbs of my gloves when I dump the beans.
I also learned that I needed a somewhat larger gap to allow the chaff to escape, and I bent it a little more, but I'm reluctant to bend it a whole lot before I can monitor the temperature. I learned my TO has a counter-clockwise rotation.
My cooling system can use a little work, but it worked reasonably well. I bought a $20 8" round fan at Ace Hardware, and initially put a steam basket (like a flat-bottom colander) on top of the fan. But it didn't seal against the top of the fan, and not much air was going through the beans. After fiddling a bit, I realized that the diameter of the steam basket matched that of the fan, and I just put the fan face-down on top of the basket. This worked great, except that I had a tendency to shake it so that beans hit the fan blades). It would be somewhat more convenient if I could just drop the steam basket in the top of a bucket, but this system works pretty well.
I'd appreciate advice on what to do differently next time. While I might have a thermometer probe, I might not. If I can fasten the spacer ring to the SC, then I won't need to spend my time making sure the spacer stays in place, and I can pay more attention to the smell and sound. I plan to drill small holes in the SC and strip, and screw it on (unless someone here convinces me that's a terrible idea!). The rest of my system seems to work fine, so I think I need to focus on controlling the temperature to slow down the roast somewhat. I think I need advice on:
1) Temperature of warm-up.
2) Time of warm-up.
3) Initial roast temperature
4) Is a change of temperature needed at 1C? If so,
5) To what temperature do I change at 1C?
6) Do I need to make any other temperature adjustments during the roast?
I'd appreciate any advice you can give.
Chuck
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Thanks to help from Peter, and loads of information I found here, I did my first two batches in my SC/TO today! I learned some things, and discovered "opportunities" for improvement.
<snipped>
Chuck
Howdy Chuck,
I pop-riveted the riser to my SC. It's holding OK, but the edge of the SC is plastic and I expect it to break eventually.
I have a 1/2" gap for the chaff to pass, and I bent the riser in a bit so it sticks into the air flow to gather chaff. It's similar to the one I made for my UFO/CO.
I try to hold temp at ~350°F for a couple of minutes to dry the beans, and I turn the power down to 50% at the first sign of 1st crack. There's enough heat in the beans at this point that they'll coast through 1st crack on their own. When I hear the last outliers of 1st crack I crank the heat back up to 100% for the duration of the roast. My roasts typically take 12 - 13 minutes to FC++.
Tex
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Thanks, Tex.
My spacer is too short to have the design of yours, although I had saved that same picture to use as a guide. But all I could find at Ace Hardware was a yardstick. Not the highly rigid kind that Susan got, but a thin flexible one. It was perfect except that is just meets with a 1/4" overlap (see the attached picture).
I was also worried about the plastic splitting. Your comment gave me an idea, though. I could attach two brackets to the spacer with bolts and springs, and bend them so they hook under the edge of the SC. That seems easy, it would be removable, and sturdy. It might take three, though, due to the gap. One on either side of the gap, and one opposite it. Don't you love it when simple problems are attacked with over-engineering? <g>
I'll try starting with a lower temperature and lowering it when first crack starts. Maybe my probe will get here soon. I just don't want to use the one I use for brewing beer.
Chuck
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Not to be critical Tex, but your spacer is waaaaay over engineered. The springiness of the aluminum will keep the slot shut. Simplicity should rule.
(http://sites.google.com/site/peter4jc/Pic012-large.jpg)
(http://sites.google.com/site/peter4jc/Pic013.JPG)
I found the 1/16 x 1 1/2 x 4' aluminum at Lowe's.
Chuck, I'll bet dollars to donuts you have the bottom heater still on. I know a lot of people do, but unless you really need that much heat and want to do huge roasts, I'd suggest either disabling it or putting it on a switch. Having a t-stat in the SC and a t-stat in the TO, each acting independently makes it hard to follow an exact profile. I'd guess that's why your roasts roared into 1st and kept right on going into 2nd.
Sorry for the huge photo.
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Chuck, I'll bet dollars to donuts you have the bottom heater still on.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I actually removed the entire heater assembly. Wish now I'd taken photos.
Chuck
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Chuck, I'll bet dollars to donuts you have the bottom heater still on.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I actually removed the entire heater assembly. Wish now I'd taken photos.
Chuck
You'll get the hang of how your roaster reacts to ambient temps and bean loads, and you'll learn how to anticipate. That's the key to roasting, is knowing how early to turn things up or turn things down. You may not need that much preheating either.
I don't recall if you have an accurate means of measuring temps. ?
I'll dump my beans with the heat full on, and when the beans are at 280, kill the heat and let them coast up around 300. Then I'll modulate the heat for a bit so that they hover around 300 for 3 min. Then it's heat full on, until 344, heat off and let them coast into the low 350's. Modulate heat to let them sit at that point for 2.5min., then heat full on 'til the low 400's. Then modulate the heat for a slow, steady rise through 1st. If you get that last part right, you can get through 1st completely and stop it right then, or get a slow, steady increase for a well-developed C+. They say that stretch between 1st and 2nd is helpful for developing body.
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You'll get the hang of how your roaster reacts to ambient temps and bean loads, and you'll learn how to anticipate.
That reminds me of something I thought of when trying to keep my spacer from collapsing but later forgot. I need to include the ambient temperature in my log. I used my iR2 inside, so ambient temperature really wasn't an issue. But today I roasted outside in 40F and somewhat windy conditions. That is something I'll have to account for.
I don't recall if you have an accurate means of measuring temps. ?
I mentioned that I had not yet received a new probe for my kitchen thermometer that I ordered for just this purpose. I'll probably hang it through the hole in the spacer. But for now, I'm flying blind.
I suspect that my TO heats faster than most of yours because it's brand new and not coated with coffee residue. And that I won't be able to get predictable results without monitoring temperature. At least not while the process is so new to me. I did get to where I could judge when a roast was done in the iR2 by sound and smell (amazing I could hear anything over that noise, but I could). I probably will be able to dispense with the thermometer after I've done 200+ batches with the SC/TO, too. OTOH, I never stopped verifying the temp on the iR2. I don't understand why comments on this board regarding the iR2 are so universally derogatory. It served me well, and even if my SC/TO turns out to be better once I get the hang of it, I would still recommend the iR2 for a beginner who prefers ready-made automation with good control. But I do hope I'll soon be able to produce better roasts with my SC/TO. My first to are significantly inferior, but I have hope.
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You'll get the hang of how your roaster reacts to ambient temps and bean loads, and you'll learn how to anticipate.
That reminds me of something I thought of when trying to keep my spacer from collapsing but later forgot. I need to include the ambient temperature in my log. I used my iR2 inside, so ambient temperature really wasn't an issue. But today I roasted outside in 40F and somewhat windy conditions. That is something I'll have to account for.
I don't recall if you have an accurate means of measuring temps. ?
I mentioned that I had not yet received a new probe for my kitchen thermometer that I ordered for just this purpose. I'll probably hang it through the hole in the spacer. But for now, I'm flying blind.
I suspect that my TO heats faster than most of yours because it's brand new and not coated with coffee residue. And that I won't be able to get predictable results without monitoring temperature. At least not while the process is so new to me. I did get to where I could judge when a roast was done in the iR2 by sound and smell (amazing I could hear anything over that noise, but I could). I probably will be able to dispense with the thermometer after I've done 200+ batches with the SC/TO, too. OTOH, I never stopped verifying the temp on the iR2. I don't understand why comments on this board regarding the iR2 are so universally derogatory. It served me well, and even if my SC/TO turns out to be better once I get the hang of it, I would still recommend the iR2 for a beginner who prefers ready-made automation with good control. But I do hope I'll soon be able to produce better roasts with my SC/TO. My first to are significantly inferior, but I have hope.
One other thing - I've rewired bu CO so the element has no tstat. Cutting the power back at various temps proved problematic until I got rid of the tstat (too much dead band).
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Just a look at what I am doing,I have removed all the teflon, built a metal shaft and stir arm and also upgraded the motor to a 30rpm motor. I am using a GG 1400 watt turbo oven.loaded with 18oz of greens to see how the beans moved seems to work great, haven't tried with heat yet need to fab the 1"1/2 spacer with a tiny damper for chafe removal.Now I will try to down load some pics so you can see whats going on.Haven't figured out how to mount temp probe to measure bean temp. Don't need pid control just need monitoring Rich
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Just a look at what I am doing,I have removed all the teflon, built a metal shaft and stir arm and also upgraded the motor to a 30rpm motor. I am using a GG 1400 watt turbo oven.loaded with 18oz of greens to see how the beans moved seems to work great, haven't tried with heat yet need to fab the 1"1/2 spacer with a tiny damper for chafe removal.Now I will try to down load some pics so you can see whats going on.Haven't figured out how to mount temp probe to measure bean temp. Don't need pid control just need monitoring Rich
I use a 20 gauge beaded-end thermocouple. I cut a notch in the riser so it'll hold the t/c in place, and looped the wire to keep enough tension on the tip to keep it buried in the beans.
UFO-CO thermocouple placement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klqygyh0Nqc#)
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Hi great setup just interested on what rpms this runs.I have seen these ice cream makers at goodwill may pick one up to build something on the same lines.What kinda stir arm did you fab.very good idea.Thank you for your post best regards Rich
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Hi Fellas,
Well, I've been toying with the SCTO idea for a year or so, and finally, at the thrift shop last week, the SCTO gods were looking after me and put a Boxed up Stir Crazy right next to a Turbo Oven right on a shelf. I couldn't resist.
I had been casually looking - again on and off - and this is the first time I've seen either of the two in a thrift shop. They were overpriced (9.95 and 14.95), but bought 'em.
So now on to thinking about this new project.
Question: My SC is from 1977. It looks like all metal shaft. Do I still have normal temperature worries there, that I have seen others talking about? Any other considerations due to the vintage of this model? (yes, it works, though looks like low RPM. What is normal RPM?)
Going to get some aluminum, disconnect the heater, and give it a go. Then think about the stirrer arm. I guess I'll pick up a copper end-cap to put over the shaft, just in case.
Well, off to teach. Talk to ya'll soon. I'm sure some questons will come up soon.....
-Nimbus
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Question: My SC is from 1977. It looks like all metal shaft. Do I still have normal temperature worries there, that I have seen others talking about? Any other considerations due to the vintage of this model? (yes, it works, though looks like low RPM. What is normal RPM?)
Going to get some aluminum, disconnect the heater, and give it a go. Then think about the stirrer arm. I guess I'll pick up a copper end-cap to put over the shaft, just in case.
I have an old SC with a metal shaft, and I have neither replaced it nor covered the top with a cap. I would guess mine is roughly 10 RPM. And I have not found the need to modify the arm at all. Works fine. The motor is rather weak, so I suspect I might have difficulty if I added anything that increases resistance anyway.
Chuck
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Hi Fellas,
Well, I've been toying with the SCTO idea for a year or so, and finally, at the thrift shop last week, the SCTO gods were looking after me and put a Boxed up Stir Crazy right next to a Turbo Oven right on a shelf. I couldn't resist.
I had been casually looking - again on and off - and this is the first time I've seen either of the two in a thrift shop. They were overpriced (9.95 and 14.95), but bought 'em.
So now on to thinking about this new project.
Question: My SC is from 1977. It looks like all metal shaft. Do I still have normal temperature worries there, that I have seen others talking about? Any other considerations due to the vintage of this model? (yes, it works, though looks like low RPM. What is normal RPM?)
Going to get some aluminum, disconnect the heater, and give it a go. Then think about the stirrer arm. I guess I'll pick up a copper end-cap to put over the shaft, just in case.
Well, off to teach. Talk to ya'll soon. I'm sure some questons will come up soon.....
-Nimbus
Those prices might be high for a thrift shop, but still a bargain.
The rpm is generally low, I'd guess around 30. If you disconnect the heater, you might think about putting a switch on it; there are times when a little extra heat will benefit; the heating element on the TO is slow add heat. For the periods in the profile when you want to pause (around 350 maybe) and then when it's time to head for 1st, you'll appreciate being able to move things along by switching the bottom heat on.
I'm going to suggest leaving the last 1/3 of the spacer unattached w/ a .5" overlap. The springiness of the aluminum will keep it closed, but when you want to let the chaff out, or modulate the temps and let some of the heat out you can just prop the spacer open.
A tip for the copper cap that I wish I would have used; cut a notch on one side where it'll fit over the stirring arm, but on the other side make it a hole that slides over the end of the stirring arm on that side. That way it'll never fall off when you're dumping the beans.
The stock stirring arm doesn't work well for either the larger batches or the smaller ones, but will work well for mid-range batches, say 300g.
Good to see you posting Nimbus.
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Hi Fellas,
Well, I've been toying with the SCTO idea for a year or so, and finally, at the thrift shop last week, the SCTO gods were looking after me and put a Boxed up Stir Crazy right next to a Turbo Oven right on a shelf. I couldn't resist.
I had been casually looking - again on and off - and this is the first time I've seen either of the two in a thrift shop. They were overpriced (9.95 and 14.95), but bought 'em.
So now on to thinking about this new project.
Question: My SC is from 1977. It looks like all metal shaft. Do I still have normal temperature worries there, that I have seen others talking about? Any other considerations due to the vintage of this model? (yes, it works, though looks like low RPM. What is normal RPM?)
Going to get some aluminum, disconnect the heater, and give it a go. Then think about the stirrer arm. I guess I'll pick up a copper end-cap to put over the shaft, just in case.
Well, off to teach. Talk to ya'll soon. I'm sure some questons will come up soon.....
-Nimbus
sounds like a good price to me... I really like peter's stir arm mod. (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=5033.msg169613#msg169613). its not that much heavier and keeps the beans moving better that the stock arm.. but the stock arm works pretty good.. my SC is heat off and I preheat to 350F then drop the beans.. they bottom out around 190F and I have to slow the heat down (lift and lower handle on TO) around 270 if I want to keep under 300F for 6 minutes of drying.. at 350F I lift the handle on the TO to turn off the heat till about 360F when the climb turns to a drop.. heat on again and that is usually 2 minutes of caramel zone (350 to 375) at first crack I start riding that handle to slow down the time in first crack.. then pull off the lid and dump beans in a cooler when I am happy with the sound, smell, temp and smoke..
WARNING: I have separated the fan and the heat in my TO so the fan stays on when the handle is raised.. so my method may not work with out that modification
I will try that copper cap idea peter.. that's a good one
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That sounds like a long time under 300F in the drying phase, Wild Bill.
One other tip Nimbus; before mounting the spacer, if you plan on having an opening for chaff ejection, pay close attention to the direction of your TO fan. Some go clockwise, others counterclockwise, sorta like people in general. ;)
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That sounds like a long time under 300F in the drying phase, Wild Bill.
One other tip Nimbus; before mounting the spacer, if you plan on having an opening for chaff ejection, pay close attention to the direction of your TO fan. Some go clockwise, others counterclockwise, sorta like people in general. ;)
its my current profile based on the info here... no ill effects so far
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Ok...got it all done. Heater disconnected, spacer fabricated/installed. I've done a couple roasts on it. No hitches thus far.
One thing - strange ...the rotating arm on the stir crazy stops every now and then and changes direction of rotation. Would not have expected that. Is this normal????
My first cracks have been around 11 minutes, second cracks 15 min or so. So that seems good. Temp in the 400-450 range on the SC. Using 350 grams or so. Using some OLD monsooned malabar I had sitting around, so not primo quality for drip coffee, but coming out ok so far.
Talk to ya'll soon..thanks for the pointers.
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Ok...got it all done. Heater disconnected, spacer fabricated/installed. I've done a couple roasts on it. No hitches thus far.
One thing - strange ...the rotating arm on the stir crazy stops every now and then and changes direction of rotation. Would not have expected that. Is this normal????
My first cracks have been around 11 minutes, second cracks 15 min or so. So that seems good. Temp in the 400-450 range on the SC. Using 350 grams or so. Using some OLD monsooned malabar I had sitting around, so not primo quality for drip coffee, but coming out ok so far.
Talk to ya'll soon..thanks for the pointers.
It's normal. One thing I did after my friend David Mankin suggested it - I slit a piece of silicone tubing and slipped it over the top edge of the riser. Now the TO stays in one spot and I don't have to be too concerned about it hitting the floor.
A typical 300 - 350 gram batch takes 12 - 15 minutes, depending on the TO power level.
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Hello everyone!
This is my first post and have been lurking about two months reading all the great information here. I have recently built a SC/TO and am learning how to use it. I saw Peter's SC/TO setup and web page and I am using his version of the spacer ring with the wooden clip to open for chaff -- it works great!
I was thinking of building a similar cabinet to Peter's but on a smaller scale (only 1 SC/TO). My question is what he has above the roasters in the cabinet. A range hood inside the cabinets or just a 6" opening with a boost fan? I am thinking with the heat and smoke that you may have metal above your ovens.
I am out in my unheated garage on a rolling cart but will have to move in the cellar for the winter so I will need a vent system. A kitchen range hood to a metal dryer vent might work but is 4". I am hoping it would carry most of the smoke out.
Thanks,
Jack
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Hi Jack, and welcome!
I'm more than happy to answer questions.
My whole setup is all wood and MDF plywood, with cardboard sides. There's not enough heat to pose any risk, but if i was to do again and had the capability to use sheet metal I would; I've had some glowing chaff pieces come out and start some smoldering in the chaff laying around the roasters. I let them go just to see what would happen and they never did anything more than smolder, but it would still be smart to use metal.
For a few years I vented directly into the chimney of the house, and so one 6" duct booster was sufficient. But I had to move the setup to another part of my basement and now I have a 6" duct going through a closet and into my attic, and there is a duct booster fan in the basement pushing up, and one in the attic pulling smoke up.
Even at that plenty of smoke escapes into the basement. It doesn't matter because there's no one else living here other than my dog, and she doesn't mind. If you look at my cabinet there are three hinged flaps; two are always down and the flap that's up is in front of the roaster making the smoke. You may have to experiment with the opening on your cabinet. I'm thinking if you built it tall and narrow so that you might have a 2' square roasting area, with a 2' square opening, but it would be 4' tall overall, you'd have a 2' "hood" and that might give the smoke a place to congregate while the fan was trying to keep up. You might think about incorporating a hook of some sort, about a foot directly above the roaster to hang the TO when it's not roasting.
I thought a lot about different fans, and tried a bigger squirrel cage blower, but then went with the duct booster fans because they're readily available and easy to replace, and not so powerful that they're sucking too much air out of my basement.
Hope that helps,
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Peter, thanks for your reply. My garage is unheated but attached, I guess I can see how cold it gets in there and try venting to the garage window. I will still build a stand for the setup.
Thanks,
Jack
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In the middle of a January cold snap, my basement has gone as low as 46 degrees. After the first batch the roaster warms up, and it's business as usual. Another good reason to switch the SC's heating element.
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Today I won a DecoSonic turbo oven on eBay so I have taken the leap in to the SC/TO world. I purchased a stir crazy from Target. So far I have disconnect the heating element and replaced the plastic nut/cap with a wing nut. I couldn't find the aluminum strip I need at Home Depot or a local hardware store I'll try Lowe's tomorrow. I still need to decide how to modify the stirrer arms, with barrier strips or Peter's modification. I plugged in the SC and it only makes one rotation every five seconds is that normal?
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I found the aluminum strip at lowes. If I recall it was close to the door lock-sets and the key cutting machine.
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Hi Robert,
Lowe's should have the aluminum you need. I bought the 1 1/2" wide X 4 foot strip. Try to get the 1/16" thick stuff, it is easier to bend. I started out with an open ring for chaff removal but switched to Peter's version and I find it helps keep the heat in. The SC speed seems right, I think the motor is 12 rpm.
--Jack
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5 seconds sounds right.. my vote is for the peter style stir arm.. .
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5 seconds sounds right.. my vote is for the peter style stir arm.. .
The reason behind my stirring arm design was to be able to do small batches w/o the 'angel wings' effect. You can use the stock stirring arm, which works fine, it just depends on the batch size. The reason for the barrier strip mod is only if you want to increase batch size, but then you won't get good agitation on smaller batches. I don't know what range the stock arm is good for, maybe 6-10oz., so if you're good w/ that I'd say leave it alone.
I really like my stirring arms because I roast a lot of samples, and can go as small as 100g. But the design is a real nightmare to bend and keep everything in a plane so it doesn't scrape. It might make sense to consider two different arms and just switch them out depending on batch size, since it's only one wing nut.
Lowes is where I found my strips.
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Thanks for all the replies I'll head over to Lowe's for the aluminum strip today. Peter your idea about multiple stir arms sounds good to me. Okay so I have read all of this thread but I still have a few questions. Should I attach the aluminum with screws and use the high temp rtv to seal it? Will this thermometer work for BT or would I need to upgrade the probe to something metal?
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi6500.html?advancedsearch=true (http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi6500.html?advancedsearch=true)
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Pre-drill and don't torque down on the screws as the plastic will crack. I would skip the RTV, personally.
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Pre-drill and don't torque down on the screws as the plastic will crack. I would skip the RTV, personally.
Exactly. The base plastic is very brittle. But you're not entering a beauty contest; if a hold cracks when you're screwing it together, start a new hole with a slightly larger drill.
I used a similar thermometer for a while, and had a hard time finding a satisfactory way to keep the tip of the wire in the beans. You can mount it to the bottom somehow with the nib protruding into the beans, but that makes it awkward when it's time to dump the beans. Not to blow my own horn, but after several renditions, the metal probe mounted in a slot at a low angle so most of the tip is submerged in beans, and weighted toward the tip (w/o interfering w/ the arms) is the cat's meow.
Check the rotation of the convection before mounting your spacer/chaff ejector too.
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Thanks for all the replies I'll head over to Lowe's for the aluminum strip today. Peter your idea about multiple stir arms sounds good to me. Okay so I have read all of this thread but I still have a few questions. Should I attach the aluminum with screws and use the high temp rtv to seal it? Will this thermometer work for BT or would I need to upgrade the probe to something metal?
[url]http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi6500.html?advancedsearch=true[/url] ([url]http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi6500.html?advancedsearch=true[/url])
I don't attach the ring on my CO/UFO - it fits in the grooves and doesn't move. If you want to be sure it doesn't move, use David Mankin's approach - a triple-spring plate holder. I also like and use his method of splitting silicone tubing to provide a slip-proof surface for the glass top to rest on.
(http://www.homeroasters.org/php/forum/attachments/spacer_springs-003%5B115%5D.jpg)
(http://www.homeroasters.org/php/forum/attachments/silicone_tube%5B119%5D.jpg)
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The silicone non-slipper isn't really needed w/ a Stir Crazy. It's only for the first few roasts that the glass is slippery, and the SC being larger than a UFO, there isn't really anywhere for the top to slip. It might move off-center a half inch, but doesn't matter.
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Instead of a slot, I just drilled a hole using a bit that was the next size smaller than the probe. Then I angled the drill motor while it was running to make the hole angle down towards the bean mass. That way the probe stays put (because the fit is tight) and the angled hole helps keep the tip in the bean mass. I did have to bend the probe a bit to achieve this.
The type of probe Peter and I are talking about looks like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Type-K-Thermocouple-4-Probe-Kiln-Digital-Thermometer-/110743877361?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c8d976f1 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Type-K-Thermocouple-4-Probe-Kiln-Digital-Thermometer-/110743877361?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c8d976f1)
I like your spring keeper idea, BTW, Tex.
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Thanks for all the replies I'll head over to Lowe's for the aluminum strip today. Peter your idea about multiple stir arms sounds good to me. Okay so I have read all of this thread but I still have a few questions. Should I attach the aluminum with screws and use the high temp rtv to seal it? Will this thermometer work for BT or would I need to upgrade the probe to something metal?
[url]http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi6500.html?advancedsearch=true[/url] ([url]http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi6500.html?advancedsearch=true[/url])
right now I use that thermometer.. (that's a better price than I payed) but I have a K type probe with a long metal tip.. the tip 'ideally' rests just inside the groove in the bottom of the SC and bounce over the stir arm as it comes by.. that setup gives me what I believe to be consistent and reliable bean mass temps
I found a SC designed for caramel corn.. its deeper and has all metal parts.. what is the mod you guys are using for more bean mass??
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Ooooh! I've never heard about the Kettle Crazy model. Tell us more, J.J.R.! How does it compare to the original? What are the differences?
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Thanks for all the replies I'll head over to Lowe's for the aluminum strip today. Peter your idea about multiple stir arms sounds good to me. Okay so I have read all of this thread but I still have a few questions. Should I attach the aluminum with screws and use the high temp rtv to seal it? Will this thermometer work for BT or would I need to upgrade the probe to something metal?
[url]http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi6500.html?advancedsearch=true[/url] ([url]http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi6500.html?advancedsearch=true[/url])
right now I use that thermometer.. (that's a better price than I payed) but I have a K type probe with a long metal tip.. the tip 'ideally' rests just inside the groove in the bottom of the SC and bounce over the stir arm as it comes by.. that setup gives me what I believe to be consistent and reliable bean mass temps
I found a SC designed for caramel corn.. its deeper and has all metal parts.. what is the mod you guys are using for more bean mass??
Whether you're using a probe or bead-ended t/c, check it for accuracy using boiling water. The last batch of t/c's I bought were all off by 2 - 2.5 degrees F.
The Tenma thermometer I use is adjustable, so I don't have to remember to subtract 2 degrees when I'm roasting.
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Ooooh! I've never heard about the Kettle Crazy model. Tell us more, J.J.R.! How does it compare to the original? What are the differences?
I have not dug into it yet.. the center shaft is all metal and it sits higher (inch or two) than the regular SC.. comes with a metal ring about 4" tall.. it may run hotter and that's why the metal center?? I need to clean it up and make better stir arms then see how much it will roast.
on a side note.. one of my SCs is made by Sunbeam and it has a metal threaded stud for the top nut (the rest of the center axle is plastic) point is it has held up with no mods.. just a 1/4-20 nut and a copper end cap to protect the axle
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I'm curious to know whether the Kettle Crazy has a stronger motor?
Here's someone's Youtube showing one.
Kettle Krazy Turbo Coffee Roaster (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgwMpc-w4ts#ws)
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I don't know yet.. mine is older with no control for corn or nuts and I didn't see if the middle axle was taller.. this looks like a standard SC but taller middle and the metal ring (mine has no holes)
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Okay here is my progress so far I still need to cut slots in the cap. I am waiting to permanently attach the spacer until the oven arrives so I can see which direction it flows. I couldn't find the aluminum in two inch so I had to settle for one and a half. The oven shipped today so hopefully it will be here by the weekend.
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Another way to attach is to use high temp metallic tape (buttwhiskers does it this way, IIRC).
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1.5" on the spacer is fine.
If you drill a hold on one side of the cap instead of two slots it won't fall off when you're dumping beans. Don't ask how I know this. ::)
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Could someone share a generic roast profile with me for the sc/to? I have read through this whole thread and I know I saw a profile somewhere but I can't find it now. I remember reading the part about coasting at 350f for a few minutes and then trying to go slowly into 1C.
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Here's my basic profile, which is only altered for end of roast temps. These time/temps are generalizations, since roasts vary w/ ambient temp, bean moisture, batch size, etc.
Bring beans to 280, start timer and let them coast to 300. When timer shows 2:30 (or beans have begun changing from green to gold), turn heat back on full. I use 3min. for drying phase, but there's a lag once you turn the heat on. Set the alarm for 344.
Beans rise to 344, shut alarm off and turn heat off, start 2min30sec. countdown timer (built into the thermometer, along w/ the alarm). Let beans coast to mid-350's, and hold there. When 2:30 timer is done, raise heat toward 1st, and enter 1st gradually w/o stalling.
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I like the look of that profile peter.. I may ave to try it out..
my profile (just to confuse things) I have been pre-heating to 350 or 360; add the beans and start the timer.. the temp will drop to about 180 or 190 before it heads back up: 300 degrees around 3 to 4 minutes when I get to 350 I lift the handle on the TO to turn the heat off.. when the temp stops rising (usually around 360) and I see it just starting to drop or sitting still I put the heat back on.. it will drop a few degrees (get about 2 minutes in the 350 to 375 zone) then climb to 1C.. at 1C I will start to turn on and off the heat (usually 5 seconds off and 10 seconds on as a minimum) to slow the roast but not stall.. some beans don't need this much fusing.. then its al a matter of the roast you want.. my roasts are typically 14:45 to 15:30 minutes.. mostly 15:00 to 15:15 ... depending on the bean, day, faze of the moon, etc. I will hear 2C around 430 to 440 degrees.
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Don't ask me why, but I think it would be better to turn off the heat with the thermostat, and leave the fan running. Oh yeah, you split-wired yours didn't you?
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What are your batch sizes, Peter? I can't usually coast up 10 whole degrees without stalling.
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380g. And doing back to back roasts, so the thing is heated up well.
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380g. And doing back to back roasts, so the thing is heated up well.
I may have to switch back to my SC popper - the UFO popper has difficulty stirring much more than 300 grams.
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380g. And doing back to back roasts, so the thing is heated up well.
I may have to switch back to my SC popper - the UFO popper has difficulty stirring much more than 300 grams.
The SC could go higher, but I found that in batches 400g and over, the outside beans get roasted faster because that's the flow of the heated air - the fan sucks up in the center, blows it over the heating element and then down around the perimeter, and 380g roasts a lot more evenly. That might could change with different stirring arms.
I really like farmroasts contraption and the way-higher rpm of his stirring arm.
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Thanks for the replies, now I have a couple of good starting profiles.
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Don't ask me why, but I think it would be better to turn off the heat with the thermostat, and leave the fan running. Oh yeah, you split-wired yours didn't you?
yep.. that would make a difference..
380g. And doing back to back roasts, so the thing is heated up well.
yep, my sweet spot is 14oz but I can easily get 16oz of green in with my mutation of peters stir arms
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I was looking at a variac on circuit specialists website in their description they say the variac is VERY popular amongst home coffee roasters. I thought I would share the link in case anyone interested.
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/variac-tdgc2-2.html?advancedsearch=true (http://www.circuitspecialists.com/variac-tdgc2-2.html?advancedsearch=true)
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I was looking at a variac on circuit specialists website in their description they say the variac is VERY popular amongst home coffee roasters. I thought I would share the link in case anyone interested.
[url]http://www.circuitspecialists.com/variac-tdgc2-2.html?advancedsearch=true[/url] ([url]http://www.circuitspecialists.com/variac-tdgc2-2.html?advancedsearch=true[/url])
These are the same folks that put 10 amp fuses in 5 amp variacs, right? ::)
Anyone have experience with these Chinese variacs? :-\
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That is the variac I have been using for a month or so and it does well at controlling the heat. Switching the power on will sometimes trip the circuit breaker in the garage, but otherwise it works much better than the router speed controllers I was using before which got very hot with back to back roasts. The variac stays cool to the touch is really heavy which hopefully means it is built well. Only time will tell.
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..
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My second power cord to the fan motor and using the TO handle to control the heat is looking more economical the more I read..
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I received my TO yesterday evening after a good cleaning I was on my way to roasting. I roasted two half pound batches the first one was darker than I wanted. I think with the 1.5 inch spacer I 'm using full heat is too much, on the second batch I lowered the heat and it turned out better. I used the stock stir arms they worked okay but I will start working on modifying one today. I tried to let the beans coast at 350F but they seemed to lose heat quickly so I rotated the heat on and off to maintain 350-360f for around two minutes. First crack happened around 8 minutes and went for about 2 minutes. I ended the first roast at 12 minutes and I ended the second roast at 11 minutes. After transferring the coffee to jars I noticed the coffee smelled sweet. My Behmor roast always smell very gassy the sc/to roast were different much sweeter.
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My second power cord to the fan motor and using the TO handle to control the heat is looking more economical the more I read..
I split the fan & heat circuits too, but I have a router speed control for managing heat. Roasting is more or less a dialed-in process now; preheat with full power, then flip to variable power.
First mark gets me to bean drying temps, next mark gets me to caramelization, and the third takes me into 1st crack. From there it's just listening for 2nd crack and watching Mickey's skinny 3rd hand.
Piece of cake!
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I split the fan & heat circuits too, but I have a router speed control for managing heat. Roasting is more or less a dialed-in process now; preheat with full power, then flip to variable power.
How many amps is your router speed control? I want to split the fan and heater circuits on my TO if I can figure out how to do it. Maybe I'll add the router speed control while I'm at it.
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I split the fan & heat circuits too, but I have a router speed control for managing heat. Roasting is more or less a dialed-in process now; preheat with full power, then flip to variable power.
How many amps is your router speed control? I want to split the fan and heater circuits on my TO if I can figure out how to do it. Maybe I'll add the router speed control while I'm at it.
I get this 15 amp model at Harbor Freight. (http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html) I'm on the 2nd one in less than two years - the 1st one quit working right in the middle of a roast!
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I get this 15 amp model at Harbor Freight. ([url]http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html[/url]) I'm on the 2nd one in less than two years - the 1st one quit working right in the middle of a roast!
I wish I knew more about these things, but is a controller designed for a motor being asked to do something it wasn't designed to do when you ask it to control a heating element?
I normally don't expect HF stuff to last very long, but am wondering if it died because it was cheap HF stuff, or if it's not meant for that sort of duty.
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I get this 15 amp model at Harbor Freight. ([url]http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html[/url]) I'm on the 2nd one in less than two years - the 1st one quit working right in the middle of a roast!
I wish I knew more about these things, but is a controller designed for a motor being asked to do something it wasn't designed to do when you ask it to control a heating element?
I normally don't expect HF stuff to last very long, but am wondering if it died because it was cheap HF stuff, or if it's not meant for that sort of duty.
I had bought an electrical timer ... cheap ... it was 5 or 6 bucks ... worked great for a couple of years and then it died.
It was so much cheaper than its competition I could not really complain.
No regrets.
:)
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I get this 15 amp model at Harbor Freight. ([url]http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html[/url]) I'm on the 2nd one in less than two years - the 1st one quit working right in the middle of a roast!
I wish I knew more about these things, but is a controller designed for a motor being asked to do something it wasn't designed to do when you ask it to control a heating element?
I normally don't expect HF stuff to last very long, but am wondering if it died because it was cheap HF stuff, or if it's not meant for that sort of duty.
At ~10% of a variac, who cares? If a $19 device lasts ~2 years, it's cheap enough to replace and still be ahead of the game at the end of 10 years. It works, and that's all I care about.
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I get this 15 amp model at Harbor Freight. ([url]http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html[/url]) I'm on the 2nd one in less than two years - the 1st one quit working right in the middle of a roast!
I wish I knew more about these things, but is a controller designed for a motor being asked to do something it wasn't designed to do when you ask it to control a heating element?
I normally don't expect HF stuff to last very long, but am wondering if it died because it was cheap HF stuff, or if it's not meant for that sort of duty.
At ~10% of a variac, who cares? If a $19 device lasts ~2 years, it's cheap enough to replace and still be ahead of the game at the end of 10 years. It works, and that's all I care about.
+1
;D
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Today I finally feel like I nailed my first roast with the SC/TO. I discovered that my TO runs much hotter than the dial is set at. This was the first roast I felt like I had complete control of, a nice controlled ramp. The first few were up and down with the heater running hot and me try to compensate.
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I split the fan & heat circuits too, but I have a router speed control for managing heat. Roasting is more or less a dialed-in process now; preheat with full power, then flip to variable power.
How many amps is your router speed control? I want to split the fan and heater circuits on my TO if I can figure out how to do it. Maybe I'll add the router speed control while I'm at it.
when I opened my TO it was pretty clear what wires went to the fan and what wires to the temp controller/heat elements.. I just wired the fan wires to a new cord now the fan is on if the plug is plugged in.. the heat can be controlled with the built in dial or by lifting the handle on the TO with no effect on the fan..
is the router controller more accurate than the heat control knob that came on the TO from the factory??
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I split the fan & heat circuits too, but I have a router speed control for managing heat. Roasting is more or less a dialed-in process now; preheat with full power, then flip to variable power.
How many amps is your router speed control? I want to split the fan and heater circuits on my TO if I can figure out how to do it. Maybe I'll add the router speed control while I'm at it.
when I opened my TO it was pretty clear what wires went to the fan and what wires to the temp controller/heat elements.. I just wired the fan wires to a new cord now the fan is on if the plug is plugged in.. the heat can be controlled with the built in dial or by lifting the handle on the TO with no effect on the fan..
is the router controller more accurate than the heat control knob that came on the TO from the factory??
The TO's thermostat was the biggest obstacle to using the dial - its dead band was too wide. So when I rewired my TO I did away with the thermostat and wired the element directly to line-in power . I tried using the handle to control heat, but it's either 100% on or 100% off - that's not enough control for someone like me.
With the router speed control you're managing the temp by varying the percentage of power being applied. For example: Say I'm running the TO at 85% to 300, then maybe 90% to 375, then back down to 85% to 1st crack, then ... (These are hypothetical settings, not necessarily the ones I use).
By putting a Kill-A-Watt between the router speed control and the TO, I can measure the wattage applied to achieve a given temperature. Which means I'm now profiling my roasts so I can get some degree of repeatability for future roasts.
It also means I don't have to babysit my roaster as much - I can multitask without having to worry about pooching a roast.
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I started out using the TO dial but use the handle now.. I don't have a dead band.. just found I could follow the bean with the handle and a temp probe.. I only lift the handle to slow down for caramelizing and to stretch out the roast after 1C
the dead band would get me looking for something different.
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I started out using the TO dial but use the handle now.. I don't have a dead band.. just found I could follow the bean with the handle and a temp probe.. I only lift the handle to slow down for caramelizing and to stretch out the roast after 1C
the dead band would get me looking for something different.
That's what makes roasting so interesting; everyone's got their own method for arriving at a common end - good coffee in the cup.
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Hi ya all, I am facing the same issues with the thermostat so I decided to install a solid state relay a K type TC and a inexpensive temp controller off ebay. For the fan speed control I am thinking just 2 or 3 position fan switch from goodwill. I have everything I need to set it up maybe tonight I will put it together. It's a blast tinkering with this stuff. I will let you know how things go tomorrow. Rich
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Hi ya all, I am facing the same issues with the thermostat so I decided to install a solid state relay a K type TC and a inexpensive temp controller off ebay. For the fan speed control I am thinking just 2 or 3 position fan switch from goodwill. I have everything I need to set it up maybe tonight I will put it together. It's a blast tinkering with this stuff. I will let you know how things go tomorrow. Rich
I found no advantage to changing the fan speed.. I had my TO heat hooked to a PID but found I was just using it for the temp and could get very good control with the handle on the TO
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Hi ya all, I am facing the same issues with the thermostat so I decided to install a solid state relay a K type TC and a inexpensive temp controller off ebay. For the fan speed control I am thinking just 2 or 3 position fan switch from goodwill. I have everything I need to set it up maybe tonight I will put it together. It's a blast tinkering with this stuff. I will let you know how things go tomorrow. Rich
I found no advantage to changing the fan speed.. I had my TO heat hooked to a PID but found I was just using it for the temp and could get very good control with the handle on the TO
+1
The TO puts out so much heat that there's no need to vary the fan speed.
I used a gang of PIDs with switches, so I could ramp to various temps and hold there. But I decided it's just easier to monitor temps using a reliable thermometer and adjust the TO's power output to manage temps.
Be sure to let us know how you make out - it's all interesting to me.
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I agree with you 100 percent, adjusting fan speed just complicated my control loop. by removing the thermostat and controlling temps with my TC placed in the beans mass may do the trick of course I will set up my temp controller to control 2 or 3 deg dead band and see how it goes. Just trying different things, maybe I will stumble on something that really works. Oh in my other mod I removed the Teflon from the stir crazy after a few roast the pan started to get well cooked and burned I am sure Teflon will start contaminating the coffee beans, can't be good for ya. Rich
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Okay I've roasted a few more batches in my sc/to and I have more questions. How long should it take to get the BT to 300F, it usually takes me until about 2:15-2:30. I hold it there for 2:30 and then bring the roast up to 350F. 350F usually is at 7:30-8:00 and 1C happens around 10:30-11:00. Now it seems like everyone else is hitting 1C at 9:00 so I'm guessing it is taking me too long to get to 300F. Also I've always read not to stall the roast so whats the difference in stalling and holding? Does stalling only matter in the temps just before, during and after 1C?
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What's your batch size?
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What's your batch size?
The last two batches I roasted were 10oz but this has been pretty consistent even with 12oz batches.
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Okay I've roasted a few more batches in my sc/to and I have more questions. How long should it take to get the BT to 300F, it usually takes me until about 2:15-2:30. I hold it there for 2:30 and then bring the roast up to 350F. 350F usually is at 7:30-8:00 and 1C happens around 10:30-11:00. Now it seems like everyone else is hitting 1C at 9:00 so I'm guessing it is taking me too long to get to 300F. Also I've always read not to stall the roast so whats the difference in stalling and holding? Does stalling only matter in the temps just before, during and after 1C?
those numbers sound good to me.. I played around with my preheat temp and found (for my current setup) that a 350F preheat will drop to just under 200F and get back up to 300F at about 3 minutes.. (it depends on the bean.. WP or DP older, newer.. ) I think my TO is getting old so a newer one may need a lower preheat temp..
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1C happens around 10:30-11:00. Now it seems like everyone else is hitting 1C at 9:00 so I'm guessing it is taking me too long to get to 300F.
You're in the right ballpark, and I wouldn't say you're too slow.
Also I've always read not to stall the roast so whats the difference in stalling and holding? Does stalling only matter in the temps just before, during and after 1C?
Stalling and holding are the same thing. Stalling during 1st is the worst (I'm a poet, but don't know it) ;D There should always be a small/steady increase in bean temp. I'd remember why, but it's late and my brain is tired. Something about chemical reactions, and the reactions you want won't happen if it stalls. IMHO stalls aren't as bad temperature drops.
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Buttwhiskers, we need you!!!
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Okay I've roasted a few more batches in my sc/to and I have more questions. How long should it take to get the BT to 300F, it usually takes me until about 2:15-2:30. I hold it there for 2:30 and then bring the roast up to 350F. 350F usually is at 7:30-8:00 and 1C happens around 10:30-11:00. Now it seems like everyone else is hitting 1C at 9:00 so I'm guessing it is taking me too long to get to 300F. Also I've always read not to stall the roast so whats the difference in stalling and holding? Does stalling only matter in the temps just before, during and after 1C?
Interesting starting approach. After your pre-heat you must be going pretty much pedal to the metal til you get to 300f BT and are then doing a hold. My TO roaster is a bit different with high speed agitation and use a different approach. I pre-heat to a similar level but then use less than full heat to get to 300f BT at approx. 4:15-5:00 for the average harder bean. at this point my BT RoR is approx 23-26 degrees/min. I then increase heat to keep about that rate which will then naturally start to slow around 360 BT. when I hit the MET I've found safe for my setup and the beans I'm roasting. I'll then stabilize that MET as the roast heads to 1st. The roast will naturally slow. At start of 1st my BT RoR is somewhere around 11-14/min. 1st starting around 9:30-10:15. Then adjust my temp. and RoR to the desired finish for roast level and brew method.
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Okay I've roasted a few more batches in my sc/to and I have more questions. How long should it take to get the BT to 300F, it usually takes me until about 2:15-2:30. I hold it there for 2:30 and then bring the roast up to 350F. 350F usually is at 7:30-8:00 and 1C happens around 10:30-11:00. Now it seems like everyone else is hitting 1C at 9:00 so I'm guessing it is taking me too long to get to 300F. Also I've always read not to stall the roast so whats the difference in stalling and holding? Does stalling only matter in the temps just before, during and after 1C?
Interesting starting approach. After your pre-heat you must be going pretty much pedal to the metal til you get to 300f BT and are then doing a hold. My TO roaster is a bit different with high speed agitation and use a different approach. I pre-heat to a similar level but then use less than full heat to get to 300f BT at approx. 4:15-5:00 for the average harder bean. at this point my BT RoR is approx 23-26 degrees/min. I then increase heat to keep about that rate which will then naturally start to slow around 360 BT. when I hit the MET I've found safe for my setup and the beans I'm roasting. I'll then stabilize that MET as the roast heads to 1st. The roast will naturally slow. At start of 1st my BT RoR is somewhere around 11-14/min. 1st starting around 9:30-10:15. Then adjust my temp. and RoR to the desired finish for roast level and brew method.
Agreed! I never use 100% power other than to preheat.
It swings from 85% to 60%, then back up to 80% to 60%, then 85% to zero; then back to 80%.
That translates to ~3 mins to 300°, then slow down for a minute; a minute or so to 370°, then slow down for 2 minutes; a minute or two to 1C, then power off & coast through 1C on exothermic heat; slow climb to 2C and counting - thousand-one, thousand-two...
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Agreed! I never use 100% power other than to preheat.
It swings from 85% to 60%, then back up to 80% to 60%, then 85% to zero; then back to 80%.
That translates to ~3 mins to 300°, then slow down for a minute; a minute or so to 370°, then slow down for 2 minutes; a minute or two to 1C, then power off & coast through 1C on exothermic heat; slow climb to 2C and counting - thousand-one, thousand-two...
Have you ever timed your roasts? A minute from 300 to 370 seems very fast, even if you add in the "or so." Same goes for 370 to 1st. A minute or so?
Let me suggest lowering your heat just as you're heading into 1st, so that you don't have to coast through 1st on the exothermic heat. From what I've read (don't ask where) you'll bet better chemical reactions if the bean doesn't have to supply the heat to produce the reactions. Should be an easy thing for you with the router control.
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Yeah those numbers, be they ET or BT, seem a little off to me as well. Of course roasting in Texas may require a whole lot less heat input to change BT than it does here in the PacNW. Tex, maybe you could make a vid of your roasts like you did for the vacpot and zoom in while you're staring at the clock.
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I just got my router speed controller in yesterday so I will be able to adjust the power now. I'm out of town on a mini vacation for the weekend but when I get home I'm going to do a few experimental roast. Thanks for all the replies.
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OK, those were just approximate numbers - I don't give away all my tricks for free!
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I just got my router speed controller in yesterday so I will be able to adjust the power now. I'm out of town on a mini vacation for the weekend but when I get home I'm going to do a few experimental roast. Thanks for all the replies.
I've wired my CO so the fan & element are split - it's full speed at all times for the fan. The router speed control feeds into the Kill A Watt, which feeds into the element. Fry's has a convenient 1' extension cord for connecting the KAW to the speed controller (my controller's plug is buried).
After preheating & dropping the beans, I shoot for ~105VAC to 300°F. From there you can play it by ear until you find a profile you like. The trick is to listen for the outliers of 1C, then cut the power until 1C is done, then roll the power back on.
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Yes sir I've wired mine the same way. A short extension cord is the only thing I missing looks like I'll be heading to Fry's. I tried a longer cord but it was stealing some of my voltage. Thanks for the tips.
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Yes sir I've wired mine the same way. A short extension cord is the only thing I missing looks like I'll be heading to Fry's. I tried a longer cord but it was stealing some of my voltage. Thanks for the tips.
I buy the speed controls at Harbor Freight for ~$20. (http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html) They only last so long before failing, but they're cheap. In fact I've got to run over to the one in Pasadena this weekend, so I'll probably grab a couple more.
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Yes sir I've wired mine the same way. A short extension cord is the only thing I missing looks like I'll be heading to Fry's. I tried a longer cord but it was stealing some of my voltage. Thanks for the tips.
I buy the speed controls at Harbor Freight for ~$20. ([url]http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html[/url]) They only last so long before failing, but they're cheap. In fact I've got to run over to the one in Pasadena this weekend, so I'll probably grab a couple more.
Yeah that's the one I'm using also for $20 you can't beat it.
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Why not find a nice condition american made used reliable Staco 15-20+ amp variac for less than a $100. shipped that will last forever on fleabay and be done with it. Many are over priced or beat up but great deals happen quite often.
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Why not find a nice condition american made used reliable Staco 15-20+ amp variac for less than a $100. shipped that will last forever on fleabay and be done with it. Many are over priced or beat up but great deals happen quite often.
I haven't seen one at that price in ages. If anyone sees one let me know. Not interested in Chinese made 10 amp models with 15 - 20 amp fuses.
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Last night I tried to use the router speed control but I think I got a lemon. It works fine on full power, switched it to variable and it won't work unless the knob is turned all the way to high. When I turn it down at all the kill-a-watt reads zero. Tex is this what happens when one fails?
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The drop off on the RSC is rather quick so with it turned all the way clockwise it should be similar to having the switch set to Full. Once you start rotating the knob counter-clockwise it will lower quickly. I haven't used one since I upgraded to the variac (went through three RSCs in two years) but I don't recall going much under the H on the dial on any of them (they are also pretty inconsistent from controller to controller).
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Last night I tried to use the router speed control but I think I got a lemon. It works fine on full power, switched it to variable and it won't work unless the knob is turned all the way to high. When I turn it down at all the kill-a-watt reads zero. Tex is this what happens when one fails?
I didn't use the the KAW today, but IIRC after I preheat & drop the beans I set the RSC so the pointer is at the beginning of the H. This is as high as I run for most roasts. To hold at 300° I cut power to the line between Red & Green; same with coasting through 1C.
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Tonight I did some experimenting with my router speed control and kill-a-watt. I'm still having the problem I mentioned before but I have figured out it is not the RSC. I hooked the RSC and KAW up to a fan and had no problems. I adjusted the dial and watched the KAW display change from 125 all the way down. So I hooked everything up the same way to the turbo oven, switch is at variable and the TO was heating I monitored the temp but the KAW will not show a reading. So I know the RSC is working but the KAW won't work with the TO. I know it sounds weird I even tried multiple outlets anyone ever had this problem? I guess I can work around it but I would like to have the KAW reading as a reference.
Last night I tried to use the router speed control but I think I got a lemon. It works fine on full power, switched it to variable and it won't work unless the knob is turned all the way to high. When I turn it down at all the kill-a-watt reads zero. Tex is this what happens when one fails?
I didn't use the the KAW today, but IIRC after I preheat & drop the beans I set the RSC so the pointer is at the beginning of the H. This is as high as I run for most roasts. To hold at 300° I cut power to the line between Red & Green; same with coasting through 1C.
Thanks I can use these reference points since the KAW won't work properly.
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The kill a watt needs a certain amount of current for it to work properly. I work around this with mine by plugging it directly into the wall and then the variac into the KAW. If I have the KAW plugged into the variac it dies at about 650-700 watts (unsure of the voltage as I roast with watts as reference). Try it this way, if you haven't already and see if it works properly.
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A KAW is pretty accurate above 100v but below that it's not and in the lower 90s will no longer even display.
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An updated picture of my SC/TO and Cooler. I need to permanently attach the ET probe aside from that it is done. The cooler I made out of a bowl and drilled holes in the bottom. I was using a mesh colander but it losing too much vacuum. The new cooler works great I can cool a pound of beans in about a minute before it took 3-4 minutes.
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Good use of that air purifier. That's the first time I've seen that.
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Good use of that air purifier. That's the first time I've seen that.
Air purifier? ??? Oh you have a sharp eye, second picture bottom left? That is a space heater for the rare occasion in Texas when it gets cold.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought your bean cooler was made out of a modified hepa air purifier? We've got one that looks kinda similar. It sucks in from the sides and blows it out through the top.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought your bean cooler was made out of a modified hepa air purifier? We've got one that looks kinda similar. It sucks in from the sides and blows it out through the top.
Either that or a 5-gal bucket w/ ribs on the lid. 8)
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I use a 5 gallon plastic bucket the I cut down to fit on a fan. The wire mesh colander lets me cool a pound of beans in 30 seconds or so. I'm working on putting a 2nd colander on top with a hole for my shop vac hose, so I can suck up all the chaff that now goes flying willy-nilly.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought your bean cooler was made out of a modified hepa air purifier? We've got one that looks kinda similar. It sucks in from the sides and blows it out through the top.
Either that or a 5-gal bucket w/ ribs on the lid. 8)
Peter is correct it is a five gallon bucket and you are looking at the lid.
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Defeated by the zoomed in shot! I need to post a pic of my 20 second bean cooler some time.
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Peter is correct it is a five gallon bucket and you are looking at the lid.
I recognized it because I did it like that for a while... until the heat from the beans started melting the vacuum's hose, and I didn't like the idea of it doing that or worse to the motor.
I now have the world's best cooler. ;)
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Peter is correct it is a five gallon bucket and you are looking at the lid.
I recognized it because I did it like that for a while... until the heat from the beans started melting the vacuum's hose, and I didn't like the idea of it doing that or worse to the motor.
I now have the world's best cooler. ;)
Cheapest is a valid alternative to best - unless you can have both?
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Peter is correct it is a five gallon bucket and you are looking at the lid.
I recognized it because I did it like that for a while... until the heat from the beans started melting the vacuum's hose, and I didn't like the idea of it doing that or worse to the motor.
I now have the world's best cooler. ;)
Cheapest is a valid alternative to best - unless you can have both?
$10 Honeywell table fan, some cardboard and tape, leftover hardware cloth and window screen, salvaged switch from a busted vacuum cleaner, and a 9" square Tupperware with the bottom cut out. When it stops working in x-years, all it will take is another $10 Honeywell fan.
It's quiet, effective, sits on the floor, and the beans are at waist height. Floor pedal for the switch so both hands can dump.
I had a diagram somewhere... it's worth patenting. ;-)
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Probably not the place to post this, but here is a good deal on an oven if somebody needs a new one...
NewEgg has the Rosewill R-HCO-11001 Halogen Convection Oven for only $49.99 - $18 off via coupon code: EMCJHKD94 (exp 12/12) = $31.99 w/ free shipping. Tax in CA, NJ, TN.
Enjoy...
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I think we're still waiting for 1st-person testimony on the halogen units.
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Probably not the place to post this, but here is a good deal on an oven if somebody needs a new one...
NewEgg has the Rosewill R-HCO-11001 Halogen Convection Oven for only $49.99 - $18 off via coupon code: EMCJHKD94 (exp 12/12) = $31.99 w/ free shipping. Tax in CA, NJ, TN.
Enjoy...
the $40 unit at Aldi looks like it may be a good one.. not halogen..
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OK, does somebody have a starting point to roast Brazilian beans without tipping/scorching?
Last night, first batch, 200g Bob-O-Link- I preheated to 250 degrees. Charged at 950 watts for 4.5 minutes and then went to 1100 watts up to 460ET and then lowered back to 1000 watts for a slow rise. First crack hit just before 11 minutes and I dropped just before 2nd crack at 14:30. There is still a little tipping going on, no scorching but this seems like a pretty gentle profile and I still get tipping. Should I lower the charge temp, gentler on the drying phase, gentler on the ramp up or say screw it as long as it tastes good (won't know until I cup Thursday).
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Just so we're talking the same language, what do you mean by tipping and scorching?
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Tipping refers to a coffee bean that looks well roasted except for at the very ends where the crease meats the body there is a charred spot. Scorching is a defect that looks like part of the bean got charred, this happens mostly on dry processed coffee in my experience and it looks like a bit of burnt chaff is stuck to the bean many times appearing in the crease itself. I have more problems with the tipping then with charring, but have experienced both defects and have not done enough home research to narrow it down to cause.
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I am jumping in! Snagged a suppentown off eBay and now I have to find a stir crazy. Any cheaper places besides amazon? What is a decent temp probe option?
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If you don't want to wait for a thrift store SC, Amazon and Target might be your best bet, around $25 on sale.
Temp probes... everyone has their own favorite... I like the long pointy probe, with a slot in my spacer and some nuts on the probe to keep it in the bean mass. I tried the wire probes, but the little weld bead at the end would give out. Just make sure to find one that goes high enough, most nowadays are topping out at 392F.
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I prefer the bead-end thermocouples because they respond quicker to temp changes. From what I've seen, almost any digital thermometer reads accurately enough - the bigger problem is the thermocouple. I buy mine from http://omega.com (http://omega.com) and check them using boiling water. If the thermometer is adjustable fine - if not just offset the readout accordingly.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=klqygyh0Nqc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klqygyh0Nqc#)
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I prefer the bead-end thermocouples because they respond quicker to temp changes.
But the beans never change temps faster than my fat metal probe can respond to.
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I prefer the bead-end thermocouples because they respond quicker to temp changes.
But the beans never change temps faster than my fat metal probe can respond to.
Maybe - but why not opt for the faster one, or use an exposed tip probe? I got ~30 roasts from each t/c and they cost ~1/3 of the s/s probes.
Edited: But whichever you use, be sure to verify their accuracy in boiling water before using. Or have the thermometer/thermocouple professionally calibrated.
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I prefer the bead-end thermocouples because they respond quicker to temp changes.
But the beans never change temps faster than my fat metal probe can respond to.
Maybe - but why not opt for the faster one, or use an exposed tip probe? I got ~30 roasts from each t/c and they cost ~1/3 of the s/s probes.
As opposed to hundreds, if not thousands of roasts w/ a s/s probe that's fast enough.
Gee, this is almost like old times, my Texan friend. ;D I remember something about a brass billy goat. ;)
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Would something like this work?
http://www.amazon.com/CDN-Digital-Programmable-Probe-Thermometer/dp/B00046YFHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333644471&sr=8-2 (http://www.amazon.com/CDN-Digital-Programmable-Probe-Thermometer/dp/B00046YFHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333644471&sr=8-2)
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Would something like this work?
[url]http://www.amazon.com/CDN-Digital-Programmable-Probe-Thermometer/dp/B00046YFHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333644471&sr=8-2[/url] ([url]http://www.amazon.com/CDN-Digital-Programmable-Probe-Thermometer/dp/B00046YFHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333644471&sr=8-2[/url])
Maybe - if it responds quickly enough and is accurate. I'd suggest going with a proven performer (http://www.sweetmarias.com/sweetmarias/coffee-roasters/roasting-supplies/digital-thermometer-with-thermocouple.html) though.
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SYP,
I have this one sitting around. I'll send it to you for the shipping cost.
http://www.amazon.com/Cole-Parmer-Remote-Monitoring-Thermocouple-Thermometer-Deg/dp/B003NV2LU0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333648751&sr=8-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Cole-Parmer-Remote-Monitoring-Thermocouple-Thermometer-Deg/dp/B003NV2LU0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333648751&sr=8-2)
It does have the bead type K thermocouple though and I know you wanted a solid sheathed probe. Reaction time seems quick.
JW
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Would something like this work?
[url]http://www.amazon.com/CDN-Digital-Programmable-Probe-Thermometer/dp/B00046YFHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333644471&sr=8-2[/url] ([url]http://www.amazon.com/CDN-Digital-Programmable-Probe-Thermometer/dp/B00046YFHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333644471&sr=8-2[/url])
That would work fine. It responds more than quick enough and is a proven performer.
Watch out for the fanboys that say their thermometer is the only one to use. ;D
Tex, I'm curious about how your probe is mounted to remain in the bean mass. Is it secured to the bottom unit somehow?
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UFO-CO thermocouple placement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klqygyh0Nqc#)
I have two groves in the bottom of the spacer that I can use to monitor bean and environmental temps. I use 20 gauge wire t/c's to give them enough spring tension to remain in contact with the top of the beans. I'm actually still using the original t/c, so when I said they last ffor 30 roasts I was joshing - as long as the bead weld isn't damaged I'd expect them to last indefinitely.
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SYP,
I have this one sitting around. I'll send it to you for the shipping cost.
[url]http://www.amazon.com/Cole-Parmer-Remote-Monitoring-Thermocouple-Thermometer-Deg/dp/B003NV2LU0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333648751&sr=8-2[/url] ([url]http://www.amazon.com/Cole-Parmer-Remote-Monitoring-Thermocouple-Thermometer-Deg/dp/B003NV2LU0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333648751&sr=8-2[/url])
It does have the bead type K thermocouple though and I know you wanted a solid sheathed probe. Reaction time seems quick.
JW
I may take you up on that. Let me try the kitchen model I have in some boiling water to check accuracy first. I really have a hard time explaining new items showing up lately.
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I may take you up on that. Let me try the kitchen model I have in some boiling water to check accuracy first. I really have a hard time explaining new items showing up lately.
Me too! And things keep showing up anyway. It's getting tough around here. :D
Tell her it was free and you need it, so how could you say no...
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Well SYP did you get that roaster going yet?
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Yo JDibbs, you roasting all that Ethiopian on a SC/TO or did you go another direction?
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So, it seems my temp gets up to high too fast on my SCTO. I like a somewhat light roast with the Sidamo. I enjoy the fruity flavors the light roast brings. I have yet to disable the SC heat element, but am guessing that's my next step.
Second question. Is there an advantage to taking more or less time getting to first crack?
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Besides disconnecting the Stir Crazy heater (or putting the circuit on a toggle switch for really cold weather roasting?), it helps to split the CO fan and heater circuits. I removed the thermostat and have a router speed controller (http://www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html) ($20 @ Harbor Freight) managing the heater circuit, while the fan is at full speed 100% of the time.
There's some interesting tips on profiling roasts in this thread, and some more in the roast profiles thread: http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10821.msg166385#msg166385 (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=10821.msg166385#msg166385)
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Anyone have any updated information on the halogen Rosewill's from Newegg? I'm about to pull the trigger on 2 Suppentown SO-2000's from the manufacturers website (Just the replacement heads) for a total of $155 shipped to me in Canada. I'm only considering getting the second because shipping is only $10 more for 2 than it is for 1, and I may want to increase throughput capacity in the future.
The Halogen Jobbies are $35 each shipped to me, so if those will work, then thats the better option. I read somewhere about the evenness of the roast being not quite as good as with the normal guys.
My only local option that I have found is a Flavorwave Oven Turbo from Canadian tire. (3/5 for reviews, couple people had issues with bulbs burning out) the rest are 4 or 5/5. It's $124.99CAD locally for me.
Opinions?
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Opinions?
I don't know anyone who's used one, but the general consensus is they suck canal water.
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Good Confirmation. Thanks. I have 2 SO-2000's on the way :)
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Double Post!
Update: The Stir Crazy's got here last week and underwent some modification. The heater is on one plug, and the motor on another. The Stainless Steel shaft is on one of them and the motor is mounted properly instead of just sitting properly. Shaft runs pretty straight, and I haven't found the need to JB Weld or cement anything in place yet. I have switch boxes mounted on boards, that still need to be wired up.
My issue so far, is with the stirring arm, modified how I have it, the motor likes to reverse, with 1# green in there. I don't want to have to fuss around with the motor reversing all the time, and this is a project I'm not sparing many expenses on, so I suppose I will need to get a couple replacement motors and just go with that. I have read of people using power window motors from a car, and the like, but a breadmaker motor having speed control not working out good.
I would be looking for 40-60RPM for this motor Correct? I have no issues building a box under it to set the units on top of. I would very much like to get these running properly and well so I can start roasting. I am starting to have a bit of a list of people pile up that want coffee.
My other thought was to PID these with a TC4 Shield. I would like to do it, but maybe in a month or 2, gotta get em going.
Everett
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My other thought was to PID these with a TC4 Shield. I would like to do it, but maybe in a month or 2, gotta get em going.
Everett
I was thinking the same thing. I might let you do the research:)
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I've done plenty so far :) It's just the $100 or more extra its going to cost me at the moment. Haha
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Drive shaft for the Stir Crazy, if anybody needs one let me know
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Drive shaft for the Stir Crazy, if anybody needs one let me know
Are you knocking these things out? How much do you need for it?
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Those look perfect Sea!
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Found me a nice little bench lathe, took me a couple of days figuring out the best way to make them, I think I got it down. takes me about an hour right now, but I think I can get it down to 30 min. I am semi retired so I have allot of extra time. When I am called out to consult I get $125.00 Per Hour, but my hobby projects I don't make anything, I just get a kick out of doing this kinda stuff. Playing with hobby coffee roasters is a hoot, the ideas are endless and always room for re inventing the wheel sorta thing. I am guessing it would be less then $20.00. I think a guy could put a sweet little roaster together for under a $100.00. I have two of the made I will do a couple more tomorrow. Stay in touch and I will send you one to try out. Shouldn't be more then a couple of bucks to ship.
Rich
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Besides plenty of heat and the fan, the best thing about this roaster is it's pretty much a blank slate. There are so many mods that work, and it's so simple to work on, that you can keep it as simple, or make it as complex, as you want.
What surprises me most is that no one has capitalized on the idea and built a commercial product along similar lines?
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I agree, been working on a roaster on the SC/TO design principal, DC motor 0 to 80 RPMs, Watlow PID temperature controller. Building up from a 12" X 6" stainless pot, had to purchase a welder to build the enclosure and fabricate 1" exit port with a damper for chaff ejection. I welded two 1/4 20 3" studs to mount the bottom heating element. Not to much more to do to start testing.
Rich
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Well, I've tried PIDs (four) and cascading switches in a TurboCrazy, but I figured out pretty quick that controlling heat is only part of the problem. Trying to manage roast temps using a tstat results in the power being either on or off and the deadband associated with bi-metallic mechanical tstats - not good for roast profiles where one wishes to avoid the rapid rises and declines that result.
A good solution would control power to the heater and manage time. Part of how I'd do it is use a program that varied the voltage at the various stages of a roast profile, much like some of us do using variacs or router speed controls. This would let one draw out the drying stage, the caramelization stage, and the times in and around the crack stages.
So it's not as simple as fabricating a mechanical device that works well enough, and safely enough, to avoid the legal pitfalls of negligence; one must also develop software that can emulate the skill of someone who's used a SC/TO for years. I don't believe it's likely that someone would buy a cobbled together roaster that still required the user to develop the skills of an experienced roaster. That's why the Behmor and Hottop are so attractive; they work right out of the box with minimal user input. Build a roaster that can compete at their price point and you might have something.
And a kit? Forget about it; lawyers would never let you distribute it in this country.
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I found that profile control implementation in RoastLogger is excellent because it follows the way I think when roasting.
Before first crack I try to hit temperatures at certain time. After first crack it's almost all about seconds.
Almost always roast perfectly follows temperature curves from the template.
I think that similar logic should be implemented with SC/TO.
1. Before first crack: Power changes when at predefined temperatures
First column is temperature in Celsius, second heat, and third is fan:
@actionT1Table
100|90|10
150|20|100
152|65|20
168|85|0
180|55|30
185|65|10
188|55|15
194|45|15
null|null|null
null|null|null
2. After first crack: Power changes at seconds after first crack
First column is seconds after FC, second heat, and third is fan:
@actionSecsFCTable
10|50|100
12|50|20
14|50|100
18|70|10
40|70|10
90|80|0
180|60|5
210|70|5
null|null|null
null|null|null
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Is the Supentown SO-2000 preferred over the SO-2002? It looks like the main differences between the two are that the SO-2002 has 2 fans and a digital control over temp / time versus a knob. Opinions?
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Is the Supentown SO-2000 preferred over the SO-2002? It looks like the main differences between the two are that the SO-2002 has 2 fans and a digital control over temp / time versus a knob. Opinions?
I don't know about the two fans part, and if that's true it'd be news to me.
I always shied away from the digital controls. It's just more likely to fail than a knob, and you have to sit and push the up/down buttons too long to get the temps set where you want them.
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Thank you for the advice Peter. I feel the same way about digital stuff . . . . it always seems to be the first thing to go on most items. Here is the link to the SO-2002 - mention of the two fans is the 7th bullet from the bottom - http://www.sunpentown.com/sodicoovnaca.html. (http://www.sunpentown.com/sodicoovnaca.html.) I thought that maybe 'better circulation of air' from the two fans might make up for the digital aspect. Maybe I am thinking too much :) .
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What sorts of times are you guys running on your SC/TOs? I've been putting mine through its paces, and i just stepped it up to a batch size of 545g green, to get approximately 1lb roasted.
My first batch of this size was tonight and it was the Costa Rica that Peter just had on offer:
1Cs 18:00
1Cf 20:00
Drop 21:00
Second batch of the night is PNG flatbean also from Peter. I went hotter at the beginning.
1Cs 14:00
1Cf 16:15
2Cs 19:30
Drop 20:15
Third batch is Sumatra from Peter as well. I started with heat in the middle of the first 2 and stepped it up to full at about the same time as the others. This was a slower progressing roast than number 2, as I pushed it a bit farther into 2C and it came out a bit lighter.
1Cs 16:00
1Cf 18:00
2Cs 19:30
Drop 20:30
Just wondering what your guys ideal timeframe is for a roast of this size in one of these guys?
Sent from the Mobile
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I notice when I even put a lb. of green in mine that the outside of the bean mass, where the hot air is actually coming down (the fan pulls air up in the middle and sends it down along the circumference) the outer beans roast faster and darker. It may have something to do w/ my arm design, but mainly I think it's the slow rotation.
Other than that, and I don't know where this 'common wisdom' comes from, but many will tell you that 20min is getting into the baked beans territory.
Do you have the SC heating element disconnected?
Ultimately, it's your taste buds that will tell you. If you're not hung up on netting a full lb., try starting with a lb., and seeing how a faster roast goes. I would suspect that your longer roasts are on the dull side, and something faster will add some nuance. Let us know.
My 380g batches will usually be getting to the start of 2C in around 15min.
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Peter,
Thanks for the reply. I have 60 rpm motors in both of mine, and a bit of aluminum tubing added to the arms of them, so agitation is more than adequate for the amount that is in there. They seem to come out nice and even. I also have a 3/4" aluminum lip, with a 1 1/4" chaff ejector above that, so there's lots of room for the quantity of beans that are in there.
I have been doing 454 green, and averaging 390 roasted, and those have been in the 15-16min to 2c range, 12-13 or so to 1c. Those have been nice and tasty. Based on the percentage weight loss I have been getting with those batches, I went 545g, and all 4 tonight came out to the 454g range, albeit a bit longer than I would have liked.
Ideally, I built these roasters with the end goal in mind of being to be able to do batches that are slightly over 1lb roasted (enough to give me a bit to try, if the batch is sold). 20 minutes does seem a bit long to me, compared to what I am used to, but like you, I'm not sure where the 20min baked idea comes from. That said, being that these are freshly roasted, I have not tried them, and I will likely not be trying them either. They are spoken for already.
Regarding the bottom heater, I have that on a switch, and I use it for pre-heating the roaster, and for a bit of a warm up in between roasts, but it is off for the duration of my roasts, so I suspect this may provide for a nice addition to push a roast into 1c a bit quicker. I had not even thought of it, haha.
By the way, I have been really enjoying this latest order I got from you. Thanks again Peter.
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At full blast, my Galloping Gourmet can take a pound of beans to 2nd in about 13-14 minutes or so, though I'm usually trying to slow things down at points during the roast. That includes preheating to about 300f before dropping the beans in.
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Grinderz, is that 1lb green or 1lb after roast? My times are about the same on my SO-2000s. 1lb green to 2c in 14 on average.
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Green weight.
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Ideally, I built these roasters with the end goal in mind of being to be able to do batches that are slightly over 1lb roasted (enough to give me a bit to try, if the batch is sold). 20 minutes does seem a bit long to me, compared to what I am used to, but like you, I'm not sure where the 20min baked idea comes from. That said, being that these are freshly roasted, I have not tried them, and I will likely not be trying them either. They are spoken for already.
Regarding the bottom heater, I have that on a switch, and I use it for pre-heating the roaster, and for a bit of a warm up in between roasts, but it is off for the duration of my roasts, so I suspect this may provide for a nice addition to push a roast into 1c a bit quicker. I had not even thought of it, haha.
By the way, I have been really enjoying this latest order I got from you. Thanks again Peter.
I forgot that you were building two roasters. You may consider downsizing your batches to give you faster roasts and more control, and leap-frogging batches. At least I've found that to work well. When I do 380g batches, three of them will net me 2lbs. and a few cups for myself, and at that rate the roasters have a capacity of 4lbs. per hour.
Using the bottom heat (for my addled brain) is asking for trouble; I'll invariably forget and leave it on too long. I had a small signal lamp wire into the switch circuit and that was great, but never found the right bulb that would last very long. Plus, the idea of never know for sure where the bottom element was in its t-stat cycle is annoying; you can't necessarily be sure the element is on just because the switch is in the on position w/o some sort of signal.
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OK - w/o reviewing 37 pages. My old GG falied (spectacularly - sparks & smoke & everything) 2 weeks ago and like a good scout I pulled out my spare GG and moved on. But of course I have 2 problems.
1/ the spindle stirrer doesn't work well on the new SC and
2/ I need a new spare TO.
2/ Well LOVED the old 1440W GG - it's hot & powerful and lasted the most of 1000 roasts, but to be honest I had it apart too many times and eventually the insulation failed and the heating element was busy arc-welding beans when I yanked the cord. I am a strong believer in the idea that time matters and so 350-400g of beans under the TO need to hit 1st crack in <7 minutes (in a pre-heated unit). So the 13-14min times sound bad to me. Will a Supentown SO-200x get a reduced load to 1st crack in time ?
1/ I melted out the plastic SC spindle some time ago, so I have a Sears 1/4" socket long-ish wrench (7/16ths?) that fits nicely into the drilled out spindle hole. I have a slit down the top for the arm-wire, but sadly this combo on the new SC lifts out of place (down at the 1/4" vs wrench fitting). So it turns ~3/4th of a turn then stalls, then turns a bit more. Or alternatively the arm-wire pops out of place and fails. Either way it seems the beans force the arm upward causing a disconnect. Anyone got a solution. I *think* I'll take a small diameter screw an wedge a washer+screw into the (nylon) 1/4" drive to wedge the whole thing into place.
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2) I'm assuming that to get to 1C in <7min. your SC heating element is in use, yes? If so, I don't doubt that the Sunpentown will have sufficient power. I use one side by side w/ the GG, and they heat similarly, even though the stated wattage is different by a couple hundred watts. The GG appears to be more robust however.
1) Is there room on the threads of your shaft for a nut and washer directly under the SC's bed? A jam nut is about half the thickness of a standard nut, if you can find one in the specialty hardware bins of a good store.
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2) I'm assuming that to get to 1C in <7min. your SC heating element is in use, yes? If so, I don't doubt that the Sunpentown will have sufficient power. I use one side by side w/ the GG, and they heat similarly, even though the stated wattage is different by a couple hundred watts. The GG appears to be more robust however.
1) Is there room on the threads of your shaft for a nut and washer directly under the SC's bed? A jam nut is about half the thickness of a standard nut, if you can find one in the specialty hardware bins of a good store.
2) No SC heater, Peter. For years (until the fireworks) I used a 1440W old-school GG and an SC w /the heating element disconnected. In the distant past someone suggested that SC heating element was a negative. My opinion is that the SC heater doesn't matter much since the thermal cut-off kicks in before 1C temps. I typically use 400 gram (14+ oz) of greens. I also use a springform pan extender, which seems to make the unit a little faster. Preheat for 2 minutes before the 1st load. At full power (no diddling) hit 1C by 6 minutes or a little under !
So you comment leads me to believe that ~200W delta is not that critical and should do the job.
1) I'm probably on my 3rd or 4th SC and each one is built a little differently. The previous one was severely damaged (burning beans & sparks ruined the non-stick surface) so it was tossed. One of the older ones had it's shaft melted enough to bend the shaft making it unable to turn. So (following some advice from CoffeeGeek IIRC) I found a Sears extended length socket that goes from the 1/4" drive on the motor and up thru the 'pan' hole and extends up by ~1/2 inch. I cut a vertical slit thru the socket end for the stir-arm wire. I got the parts for this some time ago - so this it the first time I've put the socket method into use - and it's problematic.
(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/stainless-steel-wrench-sockets-macro-isolated-13108779.jpg)
So there is no thread on the shaft ! The nice thing about the plastic shaft is that it had a shoulder under the pan to prevent it from popping upward. The socket doesn't. So while the stir-arm is spinning and encountering beans it is pushed a bit upwards, and this causes the socket to lift up by a bean-height or so. and this is enough to cause the socket to disengage from the motor's short nylon 1/4" drive.
Maybe I need to buy a new SC and give up on the socket method.
On that topic - My experience has been that the original SC mechanism works OK out of the box by only wrapping the nut-hub w/ aluminum foil - or by replacing the nut and covering w/ copper pipe end-cap. But after ~20 sessions (usually on the third of 4th roast of the session) the plastic threaded extention softens and fails. So then I drill a hole and tap/thread the shaft and install a metal bolt. This lasts quite a while (several hundreds of sessions).
Do you have a similar experience ? Better approach ?
(tnx Peter - and for the burundi offering too).
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I don't think I've had any of the plastic shafts melt beyond the threads. My solution has been to grind the plastic shaft flat to the bottom of the slot where the stirring arm sits, and drill a hole down the shaft and install a hanger bolt.
(http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/24406-02-200.jpg)
I've read that some people will use a socket, but a standard length socket, with the hex end connected to a bolt. That way you have threads extending up through the SC bed, and can place a nut/washer below the bed to keep it in place.
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I've read that some people will use a socket, but a standard length socket, with the hex end connected to a bolt. That way you have threads extending up through the SC bed, and can place a nut/washer below the bed to keep it in place.
I had to read this twice before I could visualize what you meant. I like it and have an old SC that I may try it on. I've never been quite able to get the hole for a hanger bolt drilled straight enough to suit. Both times I tried, the stir arm ended up wobbly.
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Years ago, I stumbled on a StirCrazy knockoff made by Salton - it had a METAL AXLE! I have been roasting weekly in it since 2006! (stock stir-arms, and heater disabled).
http://www.homeroasters.org/php/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=32&thread_id=363 (http://www.homeroasters.org/php/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=32&thread_id=363)
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Stevea if you need a GG heating element I have a spare I could throw ya. These things are hard to find any more. I have 3 as back ups so I probably have a life time of extra TOs. This one is from a GG that my Brother dropped, I broke it down for parts, email me if that would help. Rich
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Stevea if you need a GG heating element I have a spare I could throw ya. These things are hard to find any more. I have 3 as back ups so I probably have a life time of extra TOs. This one is from a GG that my Brother dropped, I broke it down for parts, email me if that would help. Rich
Sincere thanks sea'. However I'm now using my virtually new (was a backup) GG-TO. The old one lost the heating element, arc'ed a hole thru the metal divider, ruined some internal insulation and also the fan motor ceased to work (I didn't try to debug that). So the old TO was a total loss aside from a few parts in the bin. I'd been using it since ... sheesh 2004!, and it looked like it had been through a war. So "Farewell, Aquarius, and we thank you".
I'm searching for a backup TO unit top and I'll work eBay before I try to raid your stash - but thanks - your generosity is impressive.
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I've actually tried the "bolt in the socket" idea but the bolt isn't very stable thru the teflon pan hole (which is large). This old thread has some good ideas, but I think you really need to j-b weld a washer to the pan or something.
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/125259?LastView=1377846314&Page=2 (http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/125259?LastView=1377846314&Page=2)
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I've actually tried the "bolt in the socket" idea but the bolt isn't very stable thru the teflon pan hole (which is large). This old thread has some good ideas, but I think you really need to j-b weld a washer to the pan or something.
[url]http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/125259?LastView=1377846314&Page=2[/url] ([url]http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/125259?LastView=1377846314&Page=2[/url])
I forgot about the diameter of the hole being so much larger than the diameter of the bolt; I'm sure it's not a good idea to rely on the pressure of the jam nuts/washers to keep the bolt centered in the hole. Perhaps there would be some thick-walled, hi-temp nylon or even metal tube that could serve as a spacer in there.
I've often thought about asking my machinist brother to replicate the original shaft on his lathe. But then I wonder if the original plastic shaft does a better job of not transmitting the heat to the motor. Now, I'm wondering if I could make something out of hardwood...
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Well I took two steps - I used some J-B weld to hold the socket down in -place and this seems to work well. However I also bought a new SC (Best-Buys, $30) and used washers & 2x nuts & a copper cap. And that works well too (got 2x roast on each).
I'm currently enjoying a blend of Peter's Burundi + some Harrar longberry.- works well.
Oddly (pix below, mix) I have 2x examples of some VERY unevenly roast beans from the "socket not working" event, and I have to say they taste very good despite (or perhaps b/c) of the uneven roast. The beans (one a Minas, the other a Sidamo) vary in color for 'toasted peanuts' to oily-dark not-quite-italian tho' most are decent color and ... I normally shoot for city+ and the average here is about that, but the gross variation in roasting has produced both good acidity AND deep, vibrant flavors.
I THINK I'll try pulling a little sample early AND late int the next burn-off and see if I can achieve similar results.
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So I just built my SC/TO after acquiring parts and doing research after the recommendation was made here. Thank you for your input thus far! Truthfully, I'm pretty impressed, but there are a few bugs I'm trying to work out still. Mainly, I've had the same inconsistencies as other posters and am trying to dial this thing in. I think two areas could be to blame: Heating and Agitation.
Heating
While I'm absent a thermometer at the moment, my roasts thus far are in the 22-25 minutes to 2nd crack range (12oz of beans). I think this is a bit long. That said, I think I may be losing heat to the chaff ejection I'm using. Not only out the outlet hole, but also where the glass top of the oven meets the ejector. Is this reasonable to suspect? Can pre-heating make a big difference?
Agitation
I think the other issue that may solve some of the inconsistency is the agitation of the beans. Thus far, it seems as though the stock stirrer just pushes the beans in large piles, slowly discarding. I know there are all sorts of mods for these things, but does anyone have good experience with a particular design? I did swap the nylon shaft for the 1/4" socket / bolt combination. While putting plumbers tape stopped some of the rocking, I don't know that this is a long-term solution. I did see a nifty machined one in this very thread I may inquire about. Anyways, any input helps! I put some of the parts below for your reference.
Thanks in advance...glad to be a part of this place!
Resources
I used the socket shaft concoction seen here: http://biobug.org/coffee/turbo-crazy/sc-mod/ (http://biobug.org/coffee/turbo-crazy/sc-mod/)
I used the woz chaff ejection seen here: http://turbocrazy.atspace.com/index_files/updates.htm (http://turbocrazy.atspace.com/index_files/updates.htm)
I used the Oyama turbo oven: http://www.amazon.com/Oyama-TRO-110U-Turbo-Convection-Oven/dp/B003XJE60U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1382487794&sr=8-2&keywords=turbo+oven (http://www.amazon.com/Oyama-TRO-110U-Turbo-Convection-Oven/dp/B003XJE60U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1382487794&sr=8-2&keywords=turbo+oven)
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How high is your spacer? Too high and you move the heat source far away from the beans.
The shaft concoction w/ the wobbly socket and all that is a worthless mod in my opinion. As is the Woz chaff ejection thing. The spacer can be made to spring shut, and be propped open only during the times when chaff can be a problem or when you want to modulate the temps.
Usually when the beans are clumping instead of being stirred, the volume of beans is too low. But I'm afraid to say use more if your roasts are already taking too long. Is your shaft mod allowing the arms to skim just barely above the surface of the SC?
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How high is your spacer? Too high and you move the heat source far away from the beans.
The shaft concoction w/ the wobbly socket and all that is a worthless mod in my opinion. As is the Woz chaff ejection thing. The spacer can be made to spring shut, and be propped open only during the times when chaff can be a problem or when you want to modulate the temps.
Usually when the beans are clumping instead of being stirred, the volume of beans is too low. But I'm afraid to say use more if your roasts are already taking too long. Is your shaft mod allowing the arms to skim just barely above the surface of the SC?
The spacer is 1 1/4" wide aluminum. I did see someone using some sort of wood to wedge the gap open to better control heat and chaff. I may just spring for another $6 at Lowe's and try another one without the screws, which in all honesty was probably the biggest pain assembling for me. As for the shaft, I spent a good amount of time tweaking it to get it at the the same height as the stock one and the plumber's tape seems to do the trick in terms of the wobble, provided you apply it to both the bolt head and the motor. I just worry about how long that will hold is all. If it does end up breaking, should I put the nylon one back in there and do the copper cap deal?
Curious if you are using the stock metal stirrer or have you made any mods to yours? Off your comments thus far, I think my next step is to get myself a thermometer, put some more beans in there and see how it works. I may snap some pictures of everything this weekend if I get the chance.
I will say, that with all the problems of the first roasts, the Rwanda I got from you is fantastic this morning!
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The spacer is 1 1/4" wide aluminum. I did see someone using some sort of wood to wedge the gap open to better control heat and chaff. I may just spring for another $6 at Lowe's and try another one without the screws, which in all honesty was probably the biggest pain assembling for me. As for the shaft, I spent a good amount of time tweaking it to get it at the the same height as the stock one and the plumber's tape seems to do the trick in terms of the wobble, provided you apply it to both the bolt head and the motor. I just worry about how long that will hold is all. If it does end up breaking, should I put the nylon one back in there and do the copper cap deal?
Curious if you are using the stock metal stirrer or have you made any mods to yours? Off your comments thus far, I think my next step is to get myself a thermometer, put some more beans in there and see how it works. I may snap some pictures of everything this weekend if I get the chance.
I will say, that with all the problems of the first roasts, the Rwanda I got from you is fantastic this morning!
I've attached a pic of my SC that shows the spacer and the "inspired by Peter" stir arm.
Since that photo was taken, I've adjusted the chaff chute so it's only about .5" wide - I don't seem to have any issues due to heat loss or problems keeping environment temp stable, but have considered putting a silicone hose on top of the spacer to seal better.
My SC uses the stock plastic shaft, I cut the threaded stud part off, drilled and tapped it to use a 6mm bolt. It's been working fine for weekly or twice-weekly roasts since then (June?). I recently picked up a spare SC and my plan is to similarly drill out the shaft and use a hanger bolt with a wing nut.
I normally roast only 250g of green beans, but have done 350g batches without a significant increase in roast time. I pre-heat to 350f before pouring the beans in and immediately set the TO to about 400f. When the beans look and smell like they're dry (4-5 minutes), I turn the TO to about 435f. Looking at my roast log I see that depending on the beans, 1C is usually at the 10-13 minute mark and 2C starts 3-5 minutes after that. I monitor both bean temp and environment temp with the thermocouples and ET stays very steady at 500f with the TO set at about 435f.
I'm gonna go out and roast a batch of washed Yirg now...
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I've attached a pic of my SC that shows the spacer and the "inspired by Peter" stir arm.
Since that photo was taken, I've adjusted the chaff chute so it's only about .5" wide - I don't seem to have any issues due to heat loss or problems keeping environment temp stable, but have considered putting a silicone hose on top of the spacer to seal better.
My SC uses the stock plastic shaft, I cut the threaded stud part off, drilled and tapped it to use a 6mm bolt. It's been working fine for weekly or twice-weekly roasts since then (June?). I recently picked up a spare SC and my plan is to similarly drill out the shaft and use a hanger bolt with a wing nut.
I normally roast only 250g of green beans, but have done 350g batches without a significant increase in roast time. I pre-heat to 350f before pouring the beans in and immediately set the TO to about 400f. When the beans look and smell like they're dry (4-5 minutes), I turn the TO to about 435f. Looking at my roast log I see that depending on the beans, 1C is usually at the 10-13 minute mark and 2C starts 3-5 minutes after that. I monitor both bean temp and environment temp with the thermocouples and ET stays very steady at 500f with the TO set at about 435f.
I'm gonna go out and roast a batch of washed Yirg now...
Very interesting set-up and it is pretty close to what I currently have, so that's encouraging! I got one of the aluminum shafts on the way from Rich and am super excited to see that when it gets here, though said excitement does not resonate with my fiancee.
As for your set-up, I think I'm going to run to Lowe's tonight and grab another piece of aluminum and set my ejector up similar to yours. I'll also try pre-heating on my next roast and see if that does the trick. I have some Columbian from Peter I still got to try out so that will be my excuse.
If you don't mind me asking, how the heck did you concoct the stirrer you are using? It has perked my interest.
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Nice job on the stirring arm! Looks just like mine. Was that a coat hanger in a previous life?
If I ever have to make another spacer it'll look similar to yours, with the exception that there'll only be one screw in the opening, and the outside portion of the spacer will have a keyhole slot, so that the inner overlap can be pushed in and locked open, or the screw/nut can be moved over to allow the overlap to be closed. You may be able to hold temps with a constantly open chaff slot, but why not keep the heat in if you can? I like having it closed normally, and then opening it when I want to let some heat out so the temps rise more slowly, or visa versa, having it open to let chaff out and then closing it if I want to keep the heat stable w/o turning the heat back on.
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Yep, former coat hanger and very similar to yours but not a total copycat
Dlofx, the stir arm is connected pretty much the same way as the stock arm. I did cut a copper washer and fold down a couple of teeth that hold the arm better. Coat hanger wire is a little smaller than the stock wire, so the new arm was floppy. Also a piece of the plastic shaft eventually broke off and the teeth were a necessity at that point. <edit> when I first read your post I thought it said "connect" and when I looked again I realized you said "concoct"... Creating it was fairly simple. Step 1, channel your inner Peter and find a coat hanger. Cut and straighten coat hanger and remove the paint. Start in the middle and make a bend where the screw will wrap around it - use the stock arm as a guide and slowly work out from the center. Bend and test fit as you go. It is tedious, do it when you're bored and have time to kill.
The aluminum shaft sounds great - I didn't know they were still available.
Oh, and the Ethiopian Yirg I just roasted... test batch of 200 grams, 1C at 8 minutes and got quiet at 11, first snap of 2C at 13, pulled beans at 13:30
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Too funny; I did the same thing w/ a fender washer when part of the shaft busted off too.
What I like about this arm design is that it's great for really small batches. With the stock arms you get that "angel wings" effect, where two big clumps of greens are just being pushed around w/ no real agitation. With this arm you get some beans that tumble over, and some that slide under the hoops. It may limit the upper-end capacity, but it'll do 100g very uniformly.
I actually made a jig out of some hardwood and some pins, thinking I could mass-produce the arm. The initial bend in the middle would be made and placed in the jig. Then a pin on either side would be inserted into a couple holes, and the arm bent around those, and so on. But in the end it was still too much work, and once I had my arm I said screw everyone else. ;D
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I just got done roasting some Columbian Popayan from Peter following some comments in the last few posts and got what I think are great results! While I didn't really change anything of the set-up, the preheating seemed to really be a good chunk of my problem. Obviously, I still think I have some to gain from swapping the stirring rod and other mods but am really happy with the latest batch.
Can't wait to try it in a few days! This was right before 2nd crack and my roast times were in line with others. I think this appears to be pretty consistent overall. Input always appreciated.
(http://s13.postimg.org/zfwmk8gmf/IMG_20131024_213730.jpg)
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Looks like a nice, even roast... Good job!
Curious, what was the roast time to get to dry beans, 1C, etc.?
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Looks like a nice, even roast... Good job!
Curious, what was the roast time to get to dry beans, 1C, etc.?
Got to say, I was happy with the results! Have not tried this yet, waiting till tomorrow. The first roasts are phenomenal now, despite all my stated shortcomings. The Rwanda Rolindo was fantastic this morning!
As for this particular roast:
- Dry Beans = ~4minutes
- 1st Crack = ~13 minutes
I think 2nd would have been in line with yours. I stopped it just shy, about 2-3 minutes after 1st crack.
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New mod for a SC that I have been playing with, been using this for a couple of months now, works great running at 60 RPMs has a 7mm shaft, easy to make coupling to fit. Motor runs on 220 volt ac 14 watts, plenty of torq. You can use a Wall wort European voltage converters 120 to 220 volt ac runs at 100 watts and up, works great and there cheap under $10.00 bucks. I have found this to be the best and easy way to get the RPMs up on the cheap. You will need to purchase 11/16 Aluminum round stock cut to 3" drill a 7mm hole for the motor and 1/4 20 on the other end, drill and tap and your done. As you can see easy to mount motor with 4 sheet metal screws. Hope you all can use this idea, been dealing with slow rpms on the factory motors and they don't work very well for what we do with these things. You will need to purchase a little V block for your drill press vise to get the hole on center.
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Brazil bob-o-link
Pre heated to 300 deg
11:45 169 deg
11:48:14 300 deg, up temp to 439 deg
11:51 302 deg
11:56 404 deg
11:58 435 deg
12:00 440 deg Finish
This is a kinda big load for for this roasting method 1lb 4 oz. The 60 rpm motor makes a big differance for a nice even roast.
Can’t wait to try after 48 hours rest
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This is some Panama Jurutungo I had laying at the bottom of my stash forgot I had it. Harvest date was 10/11 cupped out very good at 87.6, thought I would roast it up. Remember looking back at my notes it was oustanding, will see after 3 year how it stands up to my original roast.
pre heat to 300 deg SC/TO
12:41 155 deg
12:44:53 300 deg
12:48:53 up temp to 440 deg
12:55:20 415 deg IC
12:58 Finished 440 deg
A little long this time but 1.8 lbs green weight
This will be interesting
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This thread has been very informative (thanks to all who share your valuable knowledge), attached in the image is where I am thus far.
I a new to roasting but have been thinking about it for quite some time. In mid November I received my first shipment of green coffee and have been using a Poppery II for the last 8 to 10 batches. I've tweaked things here and there and settled on 128 grams for about 5:35 which usually makes for a pleasant espresso roast. I knew all along that I would make the jump to a system with the potential to roast a bigger quantity and hopefully more control than start - stop - dump - cool.
Today I plan to fashion a copper cap for the stir crazy center spindle and give her a trial run. The Flavor Wave Turbo uses Halogen bulbs as the heat source, so we'll see how it goes.
I am about $35 in to this assembly (or will be when Amazon delivers my thermometer) so far. The SC was a .25 garage sale score, the TO was a $12 Goodwill find and the dual thermometer was an Amazon bargain at $20.
Abel
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/480bqFqGZ0GBkagfRdtecw6dZTsSwCDg8CCyTHYZo08=w830-h896-no)
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A couple of thoughts, Abel...
Is the inside of your spacer/yardstick painted too? That could be an issue. Also, having the ability to close the spacer and hold in the heat would be preferable. There's only a few periods in the roast where chaff is flying, so no need to have that slot open the whole time.
For the copper cap, if you drill a hole on one side and have a slot in the other, as opposed to two slots, it'll stay on when you're dumping the beans.
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What peter said. Having the spacer gap allows a lot of heat to escape and limits your ability to ramp up the heat when you want to. You can use something to wedge the ends open when you want to open the gap in the spacer.
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Wow you guys are quick with the good advice, if only I had been as quick to refer back before working on the copper cap! I'll post another picture later from the real computer this post is from my phone.
I did use a wire brush to remove the paint from the yellow aluminum yardstick, if you look close the edges look silver. I thought about using bbq grill high heat paint or just some light cooking oil to season the aluminum, any advice?
The fan blows clock wise I thought that might help keep the heat in, but just in case I was going to make a little gap cover with room foil.
The thermometer is on back order for another week but I was still going to try a batch just using the ovens thermometer hopefully tonight, wish me luck!
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
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As for the hole/slot idea on the copper cap, I thought about that after using two slots, and have some aluminum foil scrunched up around the wing-nut on the shaft threads to keep the cap in place just using friction.
If your spacer is set up in the opposite direction of the T/O's fan, it won't have nearly the effect you want when it comes to ejecting the chaff.
Obviously, everyone would prefer roasting w/ a good thermometer, but using your roaster w/o one for a while will help you develop skills in determining different markers in the roast, such as smell and sound. Have fun!
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Hi, I am in the process of building a SC/TO after consultation with Milowbailey and Peter. I read the notes on building these and decided that I would go ahead and make an all-metal drive shaft for the SC and add a switch for separate heat control as well.
Instead of using a ¼†socket and a full thread bolt, I opted to get a 2†long ¼†drive extension, since that would be a more rigid shaft. I cut it to 1.75†to match the length of the original plastic shaft. I thought it would be only case hardened, since it was just $3, but found that it was fully hardened, a quality move by the Do-It folks, but could not be drilled for a machine screw on the other end. So I annealed it with a propane torch (hold in vise grips, heat until red hot, then allow to slowly cool to room temperature). Once annealed, I was able to drill and thread a hole at the top (#29 drill and 8-32 tap). I drilled it deep enough for the full depth of the tap, but it could be as little as ½†depth.
Per a suggestion on this forum, I wrapped the nylon square drive of the motor in Teflon gas line tape to hold the ¼†drive extension more securely, and to provide a bit more insulation from heat coming down the metal shaft. When the new shaft was installed, it came to the top of the center rise of the pan, just as the old shaft did.
I made new stirring arms by bending two pieces of brass wire at 90°, then shaping the arms to match the profile of the original arms. I had a 3/16†thick large washer that I cut four grooves into, so the bent arms fit in but did not reach the center, leaving room for the installation screw. I sandwiched the brass arms with another, thinner washer, then bolted the stack together with a 1†long 8-32 stainless steel machine screw, washers and nut.
I placed a large thin washer over the center rise hole in the pan to close that opening, then screwed the stirring arm assembly into the threaded hole in the top of the metal shaft. As long as the motor rotates counterclockwise, it should remain seated. If it loosens, I can add a jam nut on the 8-32 machine screw.
When the unit was started, it all rotated OK, and I had an unexpected “featureâ€. Because of my poor brass wire bending skills, each wire follows a slightly different path around the pan, hopefully enhancing bean agitation.
For the switch, I disconnected a female spade connector from the thermostat, which is connected in series to the heating element. I had a length of power cord from a failed leaf blower, and it already had two female spade connectors. I attached one of the power cord female spade connectors to the thermostat. I now had two female spade connectors that needed to be attached. Instead of cutting the wires, I made a short jumper using two male spade connectors. I wrapped all exposed stuff in high temperature electrical tape.
I routed the switch wire through an existing hole in the SC bottom, and drilled a small hole near another existing hole, and used a nylon zip tie as a strain relief. I won’t describe wiring the switch because there are a lot of different types. Powered up and the switch works to turn the heating element on and off and the thermostat is still in the circuit for safety.
Interestingly, except for the small hole I drilled for the strain relief, all original parts are still there undamaged.
I also found that the metal shaft, being a smaller diameter than the plastic shaft, wobbles a bit in the large pan hole. I think I can make a heat resistant spacer to fill that gap. I think I have a phenolic block somewhere...
Now I’m waiting for the TO and temperature sensor to arrive. I will make a sheet metal extender and chaff release when I have exact dimensions on the TO.
Thanks for listening,
RamzyB
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Pics?
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Here are 3 pictures. I will send more if these show up OK.
First image is an overview of the stirring arms installed in the pan.
Second image is a side view of the stirring arm assembly showing the machine screw and washer stackup that holds the brass stirring arms.
Third image is the end of the metal shaft showing. You can see it is not centered in the hole.
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OK, more images:
First one is the solid shaft made from the 1/4" socket extension. Nice and blue from annealing.
Second image is the square recess that fits the motor drive.
Third image is the strain relief on the bottom of the SC, for the heater control switch.
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Final 3 images:
First image is a side view of the stirring arm assembly attached to the solid metal shaft with the loose washer that sits on the pan hole when installed.
Second image is the heater control switch I installed on a short cable.
Third image is an exploded view sketch of the stirring arm assembly showing more detail about how the thick washer was cut to hold the brass arms.
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Well done, sir!
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Nice job fabricating stir arm and shaft, you might have a problem with motor torque, these little motors are only about 4 watt, might be more then it can handle, this has been my biggest problem on the stir crazy until I modified to a bigger motor and higher rpms. Let us know how it handles the load. It’s a hoot tinkering with this stuff.
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Nicely Done Ramzy
You'll be graduating from the air popper and moving into a whole new experience. I'm guessing you'll be pleased you did.
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I found if you position the bean cooling system close and at the right height makes it easy to dump with a permanently installed thermocouples, I use a k type 20 gauge thermocouple wire. This gauge wire seem to hold position better then fine wire thermocouples. Setting the thermocouple about mid way from center to outside of the pan works best. Temperatures run a little hotter on the Extreme out side of the pan. A tiny compression fitting mounted on the spacer to pass the thermocouple wire threw works, TC stays in position very well, tried mounting TC on the bottom of pan didn’t work out for me. There are surface mount thermocouples but there kind expensive for what we do with these things
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Hi, I made a chaff collector and a bean vacuum to save having to dump the SC. Please follow this link to view the pictures:
http://imgur.com/a/CIGFE (http://imgur.com/a/CIGFE)
The TO and temperature sensor arrived today and I will be able to roast once the silicone adhesive is cured (see pictures to see why I used adhesive).
thanks,
Ramzy
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Ramzy
How do you plan to cool the beans? I don't think the trip through the PVC pipe will be enough to cool them, they will continue to roast (unevenly) for quite a while in a glass jar. You'll need air blowing through the beans for 3 - 10 minutes to cool them.
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The glass jar is not for holding hot beans. It is only to catch them for transfer into the cooling system I made and have been using for the hot air popcorn poppers. The two mesh strainers in the picture let me do double batches of coffee in the hot air poppers, but will serve pretty well for cooling the larger batches from the SC/TO.
thanks,
Ramzy
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The glass jar is not for holding hot beans. It is only to catch them for transfer into the cooling system I made and have been using for the hot air popcorn poppers. The two mesh strainers in the picture let me do double batches of coffee in the hot air poppers, but will serve pretty well for cooling the larger batches from the SC/TO.
thanks,
Ramzy
Now I know the rest of the story.
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Ramzy, the bean vac accessory is genius. I'll be making one of those. I like your "keyhole" latch for the spacer ring too. Thanks for the pics.
AJ
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What a great idea, bean vac system to remove the beans, I will be implementing that method on my system, stroke of genius on your part. Thanks for going to the trouble of documenting with great picks and a most excellent job of tech writing on your build.
Rich
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Ramzy, I can appreciate the work and creativity going into this project. Great fun, isn't it?
Was there something specific that was keeping you from dumping the SC? The vacuum is very slick, but can't see the advantage in it, and believe dumping would've been quicker and easier.
I like the keyhole ejector locking mechanism too. I was thinking of something along those lines until the lazy gene forced me to just use a stick.
This isn't directed at you per se, but every time I see a shaft mod or a new shaft design, even one as slick as yours, I'm left scratching my head thinking a 79cent hanger bolt screwed into the stock shaft will work for years and years, and leave all the stock geometry intact for the hole in the pan and the arms.
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Im with ramsy on this one, temps at 440 deg F+ will take it's toll on plastic, it will outgas even if it don't look like it. I have inspected after several roast and there is heat damage. We all spend allot of money on brewing equipment that dosn't have plastic in it, why wouldn't we feel the same about roasters. Anyhow nice job ramsy,
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I'm not saying anyone's wrong for making metal shafts, just that there's a whole lot more work going on that in turn creates other obstacles. I know that work in designing and creating is fun, but isn't all that necessary when it comes to the SC shaft.
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Peter, you're correct that what I did was not necessary (both the metal shaft and the bean vacuum). However, it was indeed, fun. I am a tinkerer and can't help messing with stuff.
So, I wanted to vacuum up the beans because the metal shaft doesn't fit all that tightly in the SC, so I think it would likely fall out if I dumped the beans. Instead of fixing the loose fit, I opted to try the vacuum idea, just because it is cool.
I think the jury is still out on the all metal shaft. I don't know how well heat will travel down the shaft. It could very well be that it damages the nylon square drive on the motor. If so, I will report back so others don't make the same mistakes as me. Since I still have the original plastic shaft, I can always implement the hanger bolt design if the metal shaft turns out to be a bad idea, and assuming it doesn't actually ruin the motor. BTW, the motor is identical to the motors used in microwave ovens to scatter the RF waves. These are typically installed in the top of the microwave. If anyone has a failed microwave handy, salvage that motor.
Cheers,
Ramzy
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Peter, you are the guru when it comes to stir crazys mods, you can throw together a hanger bolt shaft assembly in a few minutes. I have been playing with an idea of taking a 3†¼†drive extension,heating it up to remove the hardness and running threads on one end. Using a brass bushing 11/16 od 5/16" id, locking it down with nuts on both sides of the bushing, a brass washer bigger then the passthrew hole in the pan just to keep it from flopping out, then fab a stir arm. May not work but it’s worth a try. I have been using a metal shaft going on 6 months, haven't had a problem yet, However I use this roasting method maybe once or twice a month just for sampling, and only 1 to 3 batches in a row at the most. I think you will be good if you don't plan on making this a heavy use production roaster. Off course over the holidays roasting for family and freinds gifts can push things. If anybody needs drive motors for these things I have a bunch of them, maybe 12 or more
Rich
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When I first read Ramzy's shaft mod, I was wondering if a really cheap China-made extension, like something from HF would still have the hardness problem. I think your idea of turning some threads further down on the extension would safe a few steps. From there, I'd think about using a nylon spacer where the shaft goes through the SC bed. Maybe even something 1/4" thick with a step so that part of it can peek through the hole. Know what I mean?
The little spring that rests inside the shaft where the motor drives it, can be an important part of the whole setup, to keep pressure on the flange of the shaft against the bottom of the SC bed. I know that when I remember to use that instead of lose that, things work better.
I still don't think heat transfer down a metal shaft to the motor, even over prolonged roasting sessions is that much to worry about. I doubt that they chose that motor in the stock units to be rated for use in high heat, but that whole bottom unit gets purdy durned hot even with the plastic shaft and the motors don't seem to mind. So I don't think there's all that much more heat getting down there with a metal shaft.
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Hi, I made my first batch in the SC/TO. I used 1 and 2/3 cups of Kenya Thunguri. I tried to follow the roasting profile given early in the SC/TO thread, but the thermometer probe seemed to be measuring more of the air temperature and not so much the coffee temperature. Total roast time was 17 minutes and it went into first crack at around 11 minutes and it was truly slow. I initially set the TO at 300 to preheat, then 400 to roast. After first crack began, I reduced the oven to 350. The end roast was darker than I like (but I never detected any second crack activity), so I will try roasting at lower temperatures. I chewed a couple of beans and got a nice fruity/wine aftertaste, so have great hopes. Why have I not heard of anyone chewing the beans like that? Am I an uncultured cretin?
The stir arms kept reversing direction as someone had warned they might. That doesn't seem to hurt anything as long as they keep moving, but it seems like I am at the upper limit of how many beans I can put in, and it would be nice to put more in so the temperature probe is buried in the beans. I'd like to find out more about a more powerful motor that someone had mentioned.
The chaff collector worked great, didn't lose any beans through the chute and had a nice pile of chaff right outside the opening.
There was hardly any smoke compared to the hot air poppers.
The vacuum pickup worked really well until it clogged and I had to turn it off and shake it to move the beans and chaff off the metal screen, Then it finished up OK. There was some chaff on the metal screen in the vacuum pickup and I just cleared it with compressed air. I think the vacuum will have trouble if it is used to pick up too much coffee with chaff in it. I will try a more gradual pickup of beans to see if I sucked up too many all at once.
thanks,
Ramzy
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Any idea how much that batch weighed? You should be able to do 400g pretty easily. Maybe the beans were getting wedge between the arms and SC bed?
While the t-stat actually does function like a t-stat, the heating element is either on or off. So you can forget about trying to set the dial by temps, and just turn it up far enough so that it'll stay either on or off. You'll get the hang of how far the temps will coast upward when you turn the heat off, and how long it'll take for the temps to start rising when you turn it back on. 11min. to 1C isn't all that bad.
Please remind me how your temp probe is set up.
Did you open and close the chaff chute to either let heat out or hold it in?
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Just weighed out equivalent of the amount I roasted, and green it was about 350 grams. I didn't notice any beans getting wedged. Should the stirring arms be very close to the pan? As I made them, there is a gap.
I am using a CDN model DTP482 temperature probe through a hole I drilled in the chaff collector. I set it up to lay the point down into the beans at as shallow an angle I could. The probe goes bump bump bump as the stirring arms move under it.
I did open and close the chute on the chaff collector. I generally kept it closed until I saw chaff zooming around, then I opened it and the chaff came out. I kept that open/close thing going until I dropped the temperature to 350 and then left the chute open.
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My suggestion would be to have the arms as low as you can w/o actually rubbing. You may just have a wimpy motor; I've noticed some like to reverse more than others. But 350g should be no problem. Or, there may be some friction along the shaft somewhere.
350g should be enough to keep the tip of the probe buried fairly well.
I don't think you have to roast at a lower temp necessarily to get a lighter roast level - just end the roast sooner - unless you shoot for that amount of time after 1C for flavor development. You'll have to factor in the amount of time it takes to vacuum out the beans too, because as you know, they're still climbing in internal temps until you can start cooling them.
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My latest fix to the SC shaft
Previously I had lopped off the plastic "bolt", drilled and tapped for a 6mm bolt. That left a weak section in the center of the shaft that in hind sight, I probably could have prevented today's failure by judicious use of hi-temp JB Weld.
But alas, I didn't and (luckily) the shaft failed just as I was beginning a roast. My latest fix involved cutting the entire center out of the plastic shaft drilling/tapping the shaft bottom and tying it all together with a 6mm all thread and a couple of nuts. I now use a 6mm wing nut to hold the stir rod to the shaft and cover that with a few wraps of aluminum foil and a 1" copper cap. The attached pic should explain it better than what I just typed.
This was a quick and simple fix and I hope it will last a while.
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Hi, I made my first batch in the SC/TO. I used 1 and 2/3 cups of Kenya Thunguri. I tried to follow the roasting profile given early in the SC/TO thread, but the thermometer probe seemed to be measuring more of the air temperature and not so much the coffee temperature. Total roast time was 17 minutes and it went into first crack at around 11 minutes and it was truly slow.
Ramzy - like ~7-8- years ago, when I first started playing w/ an SC/TO (invented by an SF guy named Suzuki IIRC, look around coffee geek ~2007/8) ) I did a long series of experiments. My *OPINION* is that any hardware than can't get you to 2nd crack in ~7 minutes has inadequate power and will likely leave you with "baked beans" flavors. Sivetz (the late author of "Coffee Technology") recorded that commercial large scale roasters operate in ~6 minutes. By "Baked bean" flavors I mean that you end up with a chocolate-y simplistic "McDonalds coffee" flavor regardless of the varietal character. There is absolutely nothing wrong (and a lot right) with creating an 8 or 9 minute profile schedule that allows for more delays for browning reactions and maillard reactions on the +- side of 1st crack, *BUT* you need to be able to power your way up hard to 1st crack and then out of the rests and into the edge of 2nd crack fast.
Long slow profiles (like your 17min) kill off the caffeine (and what is the point of this coffee obsession w/o caffeine ?) and ruin the natural acidity of the bean. So you get a good deal of roasty-chocolate flavors and no "bite". IMNSHO there is absolutely no justification for any profile over 10-11 min.
So I've always used/use a common SC unit (with a rake), and a Galloping Gourmet 1400W TO unit (the two will blow a 15A breaker !) and for years I've used a 2.25 inch springform pan as spacer . I pre-heat the unit (no beans) for 2.5-3 minutes, add room temp beans and am seeing 1st crack in 4-5 minutes, 2nd crack in under 8 minutes UNLESS I add delays. . I have measured results and I believe that this combo will roast 250-600grams of green beans adequately, but the sweet-spot is 350-375g of beans. 350g of green beans (my standard load) is ~2.4 cups of greenss. My experience is that tiny loads like your 2/3rds cup (perhaps 110g) do not roast evenly and *should* incinerate in ~7 minutes!
My suggestion for your next roast.
0/ Pre-heat the unit to operating temps. *ALWAYS*; this is a basic pre-req.
1/ bypass the controls and try using full power/no-power and your nose as instrumentation. (Wax -on Wax off, sensei; once you understand - then use automatic controls to do your bidding
2/ Run the beans to the early edge of 1st crack <5min, then stop the power for ~60 seconds.
3/ Then re-apply full-power till you decide they are finished (maybe the early-edge of 2nd crack for city+)
99/ Cool beans rapidly!
You can't get a "bright" flavor at 17 minutes or even 12 minutes. 10-11min is the upper bound IMO. After that you are "diddling your own beans" and killing the acidity.
((NB: a LOT of owners of very expensive roasters will be unhappy w/ my comments))
My *SUSPICION* is that you have an underpowered TO. I've asked repeatedly on this forum and elsewhere and no one wants to answer, but my expectation is that some of the 1200W "Suppernhaus" units lack the power to roast 350g of beans in a rapid time. Decrease the load, but increase the heat containment.
I initially set the TO at 300 to preheat, then 400 to roast.
Big mistake =- set it to "Heart of the Sun" until you approach 1st crack.
After first crack began, I reduced the oven to 350.
That's fine, but you'd better be at 1st crack in <5min. Between 1st & 2nd you are burning off "brightness" at an alarming rate. Plan accordingly.
The stir arms kept reversing direction as someone had warned they might. That doesn't seem to hurt anything as long as they keep moving, but it seems like I am at the upper limit of how many beans I can put in, and it would be nice to put more in so the temperature probe is buried in the beans. I'd like to find out more about a more powerful motor that someone had mentioned.
When you have fewer beans the stir-arm is FAR more-erratic. IMO DO NOT try anything less than 200g of beans in an SC. \*WEIGHT* the input beans.
There was hardly any smoke compared to the hot ai huge poppers.
Yep - and the roast level is slightly more uneven (which is a huge ADVANTAGE!)
We really *WANT* some beans on the more acidic unroast edge and some farther into the *$ bold well-roasted edge to make a good mix. You can't achieve that on some instrument of perfection and science.
Welcome to the Art of Roasting !
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Thanks very much for this thorough reply. I have in fact, lost some of the brightness, and it's good to get pointers on why. I have been roasting 350g of green per batch, but apparently I need to increase the heat at the outset. I will try the TO at full heat for the beginning. Do you also recommend using the SC heater element? I have it wired separately so that I can turn it on/off.
With regard to the metal shaft I made, I was unhappy with my wire arrangement as it was not stirring very well, so I put the original shaft back in and have been using the original stirring wire. That, however, leaves beans unroasted out at the perimeter. I saw a picture of Peter's stirring wires, and that design looks like it would keep the beans moving in under the TO element better.
Temperature data point: I have an infrared temperature sensor and it measures bean surface temperature within one or two degrees of the temperature probe, so I am satisfied it is buried deep enough into the beans to trust.
Also, when the SC heating element is turned on, I noticed some beans being dragged around on the flat side and burning while the top side was green. Not good. I either need to not use the SC heating element or figure out a way to agitate and turn the beans.
This concept of striving for an uneven roast: If I allow the beans at the perimeter to remain pale brown and roast until the beans in the center are smoking, is that desirable? I can try a batch that way and see if I get the flavors back.
One reason I went to the SC/TO was that I had been using hot air popcorn poppers and the flavor was not what it should be. I was advised to try the SC/TO as it would be a longer roast and retain flavor. I would love to hear opinions on different roast strategies.
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My *OPINION* is that any hardware than can't get you to 2nd crack in ~7 minutes has inadequate power and will likely leave you with "baked beans" flavors.
Wow! :o
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Be advised that stevea's preferred roast profile deviates a bit from accepted "norms." But that's cool. Not everybody likes the same thing.
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Be advised that stevea's preferred roast profile deviates a bit from accepted "norms." But that's cool. Not everybody likes the same thing.
Maybe he'll play along in the next swap.
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Coffee swap using only SC/TO roasting method would be fun, maybe Stevea would jump in, I have so much roasted up now I need to wait a week before roasting up some, I will roast up 350g just for SG using his method, most of my roast run 12 to 14 min. With my 60 rpm drive motor mod, I’m getting very even roasts, some of the naturals will look a little uneven but that is expected.
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I would like to hear more about the 60 rpm motor. Type, source, any issues with installation? Does it have more power than the SC motor, or just go faster?
As I have been getting more experience roasting with the SC/TO, I have been taking the beans into first crack (7 minutes or so time), then removing the TO while the SC heater is fully hot. I can then see the beans as they darken, and nudge beans from the perimeter into the center, and all the beans begin cooling in the absence of the TO on top. Maximum temperature hits around 426F but drops to around 406F (11 minutes or so) as the first crack popping tapers off. I have roasted both the Chelfit and oaxaca coffees this way and got excellent finish tastes as the cup cools. Beans go into the cooling strainers (fan blowing up from below) looking somewhat mottled, but by the time they are cool, they look a lot more even. I don't think I am hallucinating that...but who knows?
thanks,
Ramzy
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My *OPINION* is that any hardware than can't get you to 2nd crack in ~7 minutes has inadequate power and will likely leave you with "baked beans" flavors.
Wow! :o
Read that carefully - I am not suggesting a 7min roast is best, but you need that much power to ramp at a proficient rate. OTOH commercial air roasts are faster !
Be advised that stevea's preferred roast profile deviates a bit from accepted "norms."
FTFY ;)
But that's cool. Not everybody likes the same thing.
Of course. Keep in mind that I mostly prefer ethiopians and s.american beans so a sidamo is about as acidic as it gets - I'm trying to preserve acidity.
FWIW SM's defines "baked beans" a lot differently than I do. As in under-roast or "case hardened" (toasted on the outside, raw on the inside), therefore "sour" (acidic) and poor flavor. My issue is that long roasting time remove the caffeine bite and the acidity and the fruity/winey varietal flavors - leaving you with something a lot closer to cocoa than coffee (I haven't had it in years, but that's my recollection of MacDonalds coffee).
I may be extreme - but I've never tasted a 13 minute roast to FC+ that I thought was anything but inferior to a <10min roast. Time is a double edged sword - you gain caramel and maillard products esp in the lower temp range, and some desirable carbonization at the upper - but lose acidity and caffeine and varietal flavors.
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I permanently mounted my TC no problem, the only thing is it needs to be long enough so you don’t need to disconnect. I made a 4’ 20 gauge K type TC just for this application. Works perfect.
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any TO/SC users still?
I picked up a combo a few weeks ago and just go into roasting
i want to buy a variac, either staco or powerstat (superior electronics).
anyone d/c their heating element and connect it directly to the variac?
if so, were you happy with the results?
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I still use my SC/TO. It plugs into a standard (US) 110/120 VAC outlet. I have the heating element on the SC wired to a separate switch so that I can turn it on and off without affecting the stirring motor. I mostly leave this bottom heating element off, as that gives me a better roasting profile targeted at first crack around 9:30 into the roast.
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I still use my SC/TO. It plugs into a standard (US) 110/120 VAC outlet. I have the heating element on the SC wired to a separate switch so that I can turn it on and off without affecting the stirring motor. I mostly leave this bottom heating element off, as that gives me a better roasting profile targeted at first crack around 9:30 into the roast.
good to know
once i get my variac, ill try it without disconnecting the heating element first to see how my results are
i have already disconnected the heating element from my SC.
My oven is rated at 1300W.
I roasted some peru beans and FC was about 6.30 in
Did some costa rica beans and FC was at 5.30
temps were the same 375F on the TO.
Interesting eh
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You're hitting first crack too soon. Since first crack doesn't happen until the beans are around 405 degrees F, the generated temperature is higher than the temperature setting. Are you measuring the temperature with a probe in the mass of beans?
With the turbo oven set at 390F and the bottom heat off, my temperature probe measures a rise from around 240F at 1 minute up to 370F at 7 minutes, then I raise the temperature to 440F and the beans hit first crack at 9:30 or so. They are usually done by 12:00.
Since the first part of the roast is drying out moisture in the beans, bean density and charge size ( I use 12 ounces) will affect how long it takes to get the higher temperatures.
I only use the bottom temperature if it is the first batch and needs preheating, or if for some reason the beans just aren't heating up fast enough from the turbo oven heat on top. But be careful to not chase the temperature. Temperature rise will lag the settings, then catch up and overheat. The bottom heat will drive the beans into first crack way too soon, so it should only be on for a very short time, if at all. If you made the separator ring properly, you will be able to vent heat quickly if you need to, to control overheating.
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Hitting first crack at 6 or 7 minutes is not bad with this method if you can keep control and not hit your desired endpoint for at least another two minutes (and continue a slow rise without stalling or wobbling). The bottom heat shuts off somewhere between 335 and 355 depending on your exact stir crazy, so the only real effect is to drive the temperature up in the early part of the roast. If you are roasting at least 8oz, it will help stabilize the temp and drive off the moisture. The actual temp on the CO unit is never anything like the dial says, it has more to do with the ratio of time on to off. I've found that I get the best environmental temperature ramp by starting out at a 400 target then dropping to 370 after 4 minutes or so on an unmodified halogen element oven. You can easily hit 440 bean temp at that setting (!) with this configuration, but most importantly you will get a proper ramp arc without a rate of rise increase after FC starts, and you will not stall the roast. This sounds completely opposed to what many sources recommend, but it will give you the best development for a 10-12 oz roast. This has been my experience with at least 15 ovens, some of them split wired, over the last 9 years. I have roasted at least 2500# by SC/TO, and rarely monitor temperature any more, I can tell by the smell... Nowadays I mostly use turbocrazy for sample roasts, as all my production is done with a 5# old school RK and a 14# homemade drum, but it is still my 'go to' method for small or precious runs. Every oven has its own 'personality', the halogen element Sharper Image device is my preferred one these days, with the old Galloping Gourmet the runner up (but these usually have to be run hotter).
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BW, is that #14 pound roaster of yours the milk can roaster that you were working on all those years ago?
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Nope. Just a big stainless drum welded up out of 304 perf. I posted some pictures of it out here a year ago... the milk can roaster never worked right, and I eventually have up after wrecking two milk cans and a bunch of green.
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After mounting a 60 rpm motor on my SC The bean agitation made all the difference, I struggled with the stir arm. I finally ended up mounting two original stir arms on top of each other seems to work good. roasting 1.2 pounds at a time works great, if I get a order of a pound I don't need to fire up my 2 Kilo roaster, much less hassle and more efficient. I am using a GG 1500 watt turbo oven and the SC element hooked up with a inline switch in case I need to push it, rarely ever need to use it.
Yes, I will post pics as soon as my camera charges up. Everything was purchased off ebay, I'm into it for $37.00 and my time about a couple hours to install. The motor has plenty of power runs at 14 watts 60 rpms, found a stick of 11/16 aluminum round stock for the shaft, drilled a 7mm hole to connect the motor shaft and a 1/4 20 bolt on the stir arm end.
Motor
http://www.ebay.com/itm/351134319741 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/351134319741) $21.00
trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Motor shaft 11/16 aluminuum round stock, I had them cut it into 12" lenghths.$7.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150297434120?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/150297434120?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
Step-up converter $about $7.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEP-UP-VOLTAGE-CONVERTER-110V-to-220V-TRANSFORMER-50W-/221224331625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3381ff6969 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEP-UP-VOLTAGE-CONVERTER-110V-to-220V-TRANSFORMER-50W-/221224331625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3381ff6969)
Simple instalation, mounted the motor with sheet metal screws on the metal access plate on the bottom of the SC.Built 4 of them for Family and freinds, havent had one fail in a year going strong
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Do you have the info on your improved motor handy, sea330?
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Just added to my previous post.
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Just added to my previous post.
nice set up!
what's the difference between yours and something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Synchronous-Motor-120V-AC-60-rpm-4W-7mm-shaft-E149393-/291410574669?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d96c7d4d (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Synchronous-Motor-120V-AC-60-rpm-4W-7mm-shaft-E149393-/291410574669?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d96c7d4d)
i am planning on buying this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161608031945?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/161608031945?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) as it runs at 30/36 r/rpm and has about 1kg of torque which should be good for my needs.
My current stir crazy only has a really anemica 5/6 r/rpm motor at the moment.
edit: i have a k type thermostat being shipped to me as we speak. cannot measure bean temps at the moment.
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I have tried the 30/36 rpm motor with out success, the motor torque is inadequate, It would stall. I have a couple of them would be happy to send you one to try. I can guarantee you, for what we do with these things it's a wast of time. I have looked into motors that take 120 VAC running 50 to 60 rpms with the torque needed is really tough, I have found a couple but their expensive.
Rich
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You're hitting first crack too soon. Since first crack doesn't happen until the beans are around 405 degrees F, the generated temperature is higher than the temperature setting. Are you measuring the temperature with a probe in the mass of beans?
With the turbo oven set at 390F and the bottom heat off, my temperature probe measures a rise from around 240F at 1 minute up to 370F at 7 minutes, then I raise the temperature to 440F and the beans hit first crack at 9:30 or so. They are usually done by 12:00.
Since the first part of the roast is drying out moisture in the beans, bean density and charge size ( I use 12 ounces) will affect how long it takes to get the higher temperatures.
I only use the bottom temperature if it is the first batch and needs preheating, or if for some reason the beans just aren't heating up fast enough from the turbo oven heat on top. But be careful to not chase the temperature. Temperature rise will lag the settings, then catch up and overheat. The bottom heat will drive the beans into first crack way too soon, so it should only be on for a very short time, if at all. If you made the separator ring properly, you will be able to vent heat quickly if you need to, to control overheating.
I think we are doing essentially the same thing except my SC heater is disconnected. Batch size and timings are pretty similar
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Nice motor mod sea'. I'd worry about the heat for a 1.2# load, but I suppose you don't use it for back-to-back roasts.
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hey everyone, so my variac came in and i tried out the tanzanian peaberry I bought from slim.
I have 3" spacer I bought form walmart with a thermocouple inserted into the middle of the spacer about 2" up from where the beans sit (environmental temp i guess).
It was a bit cold outside at around 50F and I started with 280g of beans
FC outliers took about 10.30min @ 410F
Rolling FC about 12min @ 450F
SC outliers at about 14.5min @ 500F, this is when I dumped it.
The temp kept rising in between the FC and SC. The beans look and smell pretty nice, I will give it 24-48hrs prior to tasting.
My question is, prior to FC, what temperature should I try to aim for? When I start hearing the outliers of FC, should I turn down the temp, ramp it up, or keep it constant? Same question, as it approaches SC outliers.
Also prior to hitting FC, what temps should I aim for?
i realize all beans are different, but I am aiming for full city roasts
Thanks for your time
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It is difficult to comment unless you can give a bean mass temperature. I use a SC/TO (actually SC/GG) and your environmental temps don't tell me much about where you are in the roasting process. I use my environmental temp (vs. bean mass temp) to prevent stalling the roast, but focus on bean mass temp for my profile.
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It is difficult to comment unless you can give a bean mass temperature. I use a SC/TO (actually SC/GG) and your environmental temps don't tell me much about where you are in the roasting process. I use my environmental temp (vs. bean mass temp) to prevent stalling the roast, but focus on bean mass temp for my profile.
that's a pretty darn good point.
my current thermocouple is a twisted wire with a bead of solder (i think) on it, which is attached to the thermostat....
I am assuming the bead of solder helps detect the temperature. i'll thread it down to where the beans are next time I roast and report back.
Should I protect the bead with something?
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I use the same thing (multiple actually) and they are still going strong after numerous roasts. Some like a solid end probe to ride in the bean mass, but I haven't needed that. Good luck with it.
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I use 20 gauge solid K thermocouple wire that is very stiff, stays in the bean mass really well. the bead you refer to is the junction, it's welded not soldered, kinda like resistance welding. I have found that only thing you need to do is clean it every now and then, I found a 1/8th brass fitting that I used as a pass threw to hold the TC in place on the spacer ring. My roasts run anywhere from 12 to 14 minutes, I usually preheat around 300 to 350 deg depending on the bean.
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I use a very similar setup to sea330 although I preheat to about 400. Overall roasting times are about the same however.
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I use a SC/TO (actually SC/GG)
What makes a GG different than a TO?
Also prior to hitting FC, what temps should I aim for?
i realize all beans are different, but I am aiming for full city roasts
Many people will use FC for Full City, and 1C or 2C for first and second crack, just to avoid confusion whether FC is first crack or full city.
And now, just to prove I can (at least try to) be helpful... :-) you'll lose some energy by having that tall of a spacer. 3" is moving the heat pretty far away from the beans, compared to a 1" spacer.
It's not easy to find a thermocouple solution that will stay put in the bean mass, and not get banged up by the beans or the stirring arm. I'm one of those that ptrmorton referred to, who like the solid probe riding in the bean mass. You'll get yours to work, but eventually it'll wear out, or not stay put where you want it. I haven't seen sea330's 20ga. wire setup, but it sounds interesting.
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Peter, I will make you up one to check out, PM were to ship it to.
Rich
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What makes a GG different than a TO?
Nothing, I now realize in looking back at the beginning of this thread. I was under the mistaken impression that when SC/CO was changed to SC/TO, the TO was a specific brand of convection oven similar to when SC was changed to UFO when the Salton base was being referred to instead of the Stir Crazy.
you'll lose some energy by having that tall of a spacer. 3" is moving the heat pretty far away from the beans, compared to a 1" spacer.
I completely agree that a 1" spacer makes the roaster more responsive to changes in the heat being applied to the bean mass. I struggled with a 3" spring form pan until I saw the light. 8)
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Antoine_t, I also highly recommend two temperature probes - one for the bean mass and the other for what you refer to as environmental temperature. After a couple of months of trial and error and attempting to duplicate other’s roasting profiles when I first switched to a SC/TO, I began focusing on how much heat energy I was pouring into the bean mass based upon the difference between environmental temperature and bean mass temperature. This helped me compensate for one of the drawbacks of SC/TO roaster compared to more sophisticated roasting systems – the inaccuracy and on/off nature of the controls on the TO. By focusing on the difference between environmental temp vs bean mass temp, some of the guess work during the roasting process (especially during 1C) was reduced and my consistency was increased regardless of bean type (big help with my early decaf experiences).
Furthermore, when roasting very small samples, my bean mass temperature would bounce around and not be reliable. Sometimes bean mass temps would appear to be falling when what was actually happening was I was finally getting a more accurate reading after the probe had been partially exposed to the environmental temperatures. By knowing that I had an approximately 60 degree difference between bean mass temp and environmental temp, I was assured that I was not close to stalling the roast and there was no need to unnecessarily add more heat regardless of apparent falling bean mass temperatures. The two probe setup also allows for much gentler roasts without fear of stalling which I find useful after 1C.
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After mounting a 60 rpm motor on my SC The bean agitation made all the difference, I struggled with the stir arm. I finally ended up mounting two original stir arms on top of each other seems to work good. roasting 1.2 pounds at a time works great, if I get a order of a pound I don't need to fire up my 2 Kilo roaster, much less hassle and more efficient. I am using a GG 1500 watt turbo oven and the SC element hooked up with a inline switch in case I need to push it, rarely ever need to use it.
Yes, I will post pics as soon as my camera charges up. Everything was purchased off ebay, I'm into it for $37.00 and my time about a couple hours to install. The motor has plenty of power runs at 14 watts 60 rpms, found a stick of 11/16 aluminum round stock for the shaft, drilled a 7mm hole to connect the motor shaft and a 1/4 20 bolt on the stir arm end.
Motor
[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/351134319741[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/351134319741[/url]) $21.00
trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Motor shaft 11/16 aluminuum round stock, I had them cut it into 12" lenghths.$7.00
[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/150297434120?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/150297434120?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT[/url])
Step-up converter $about $7.00
[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEP-UP-VOLTAGE-CONVERTER-110V-to-220V-TRANSFORMER-50W-/221224331625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3381ff6969[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEP-UP-VOLTAGE-CONVERTER-110V-to-220V-TRANSFORMER-50W-/221224331625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3381ff6969[/url])
Simple instalation, mounted the motor with sheet metal screws on the metal access plate on the bottom of the SC.Built 4 of them for Family and freinds, havent had one fail in a year going strong
any chance you have any of the 11/16 aluminum round stock for the shaft drilled to fit the 7mm motor left?
i finally purchased the 60rpm motor off ebay
thanks again
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Yes I have one, I would be happy to send it to you. It is drilled out to 7mm shaft, 3" long with set screw.
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Sorry for the bad pic my pic resizer keeps messing up, PM me your address and i will get it to you.
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Sorry for the bad pic my pic resizer keeps messing up, PM me your address and i will get it to you.
awesome thanks!
ps: might need some help with putting it all together once things arrive
:(
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I would be glade to help, few little tricks I learned along the way on my modifications.
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Hey guys here is my modified SC/TO. I actually have a Presto Electric Stirring Popcorn Popper that I purchased from a walmart. The original motor was 4/5rpm, and painfully slow, resulting in uneven roasts (not sure how I tolerated it for so long!)
Anyway, much thanks to sea330 for helping me out out tremendously. He supplied me with the aluminum shaft you see in the middle as well as much guidance through out.
It is now spinning at 60rpm and roasts couldn't have been better. I have a variac that I use to control the power/heat source as well as a temp probe.
I use to have a long temp probe that would hang over the top and touch the beans to measure bean temp, but am deciding if I should drill a hole into the plate and stick a probe from underneath? My only concern would be would I need some food grade sealant to seal in the heat after the hole is made for the probe...or can I live without it.
(http://i.imgur.com/gnnsCYb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VTtcAxw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tkcko0g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/aozBvdu.jpg)
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Fantastic job, haven't been able interact much, been in Vegas for the last month or so, the wife had open heart surgery crashed a couple of times ended up with a stroke, no use of the right foot, my world and hers will never be the same., glade to be back roasting again feeding my obsession. Just finished building a SC/TO modified for a friend, I have 5 people locally roasting this way and they love it, they buy greens from me at cost. Glad to hear your up and running.
Rich
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I concur - very nice build! Those are some spiffy arms too!
As for your probe placement, going through the base will depend somewhat on the type of probe and whether you can mount it in way that the stirring arms don't collide with it.
I tried that with a bead-type wire probe, and it got beat up by the arms. So I now have a metal probe with the pointy tip that just rides in the bean mass. Remember that you'll want to remove the probe to dump the beans, or disconnect it from the thermometer if you have to move the base unit to where your bean cooler is.
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Are all the stir crazy 1,000 watt and does going higher make a difference like the popcorn pumpers? Is there a specific model everyone recommends?
Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
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Are all the stir crazy 1,000 watt and does going higher make a difference like the popcorn pumpers? Is there a specific model everyone recommends?
Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
I would guess the wattage of the stir crazy is somewhat irrelevant as you are not using it for a heat source, and that rating is for the heating element, I believe.
I would focus on a stir crazy that has a good stir arm motor. Worry about wattage when it comes to the Turbo Oven. :)
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Fantastic job, haven't been able interact much, been in Vegas for the last month or so, the wife had open heart surgery crashed a couple of times ended up with a stroke, no use of the right foot, my world and hers will never be the same., glade to be back roasting again feeding my obsession. Just finished building a SC/TO modified for a friend, I have 5 people locally roasting this way and they love it, they buy greens from me at cost. Glad to hear your up and running.
Rich
Hey Rich
Terribly sorry to hear about your wife, I hope she has a speedy recovery. I do not know the severity of the blockage your wife has but with hard work and physio, a lot people have regained a lot of their mobility/range of motion post stroke.
Thanks again for your contributions to this board
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Peter helped me with a SC/TO SETUP. so it's time to share. He modded a great SC, I bought a good TO he recommended, and then I wanted a cooling unit so I found a bucket and poked some holes into it and stuck a shop vac in it to stuck out hot air. Works great!
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/21/736228cc4195190ab42f74990dcd5972.jpg)
Todd Parker
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Just think, now you ruin more coffee faster!
JK, glad you're having fun with the new setup, Todd!
The cool part is, now you're the expert that can help the next noob along. ;D
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This was my second roast, but the first I really logged. I tried to dial it back so it would roast longer, sill a little under though? The decosonic temp steps in increments of about 18° so half steps would be about 9° for the TO, don't know how that translates to the bean. Any advice and feedback is appreciated.
11.22.15 Panama. 424°, down 1/2 step every 2 minutes. 372° at 6 minutes. 383° at 8 minutes. 1st crack at 8:45 at 390°. Pulled at 10:30 at 401°. Cooled 5:30 minutes.
Todd Parker
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So, I made a stirring base modeled after sea330's ideas. I roasted 1 & 1/2 pounds of coffee. 1C was about 17 min. And 2C about 23 min. Is that too long of a roast cycle? Am I baking vrs roasting? Should I move the heat source closer to the bean mass or lower the mass amount? The 1st roast was decent, but deferring to you SC/TO experts for wise counsel... :)
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Seems long - especially for 1/2 pound and you don't say whether the 1 lbs roast was significantly longer. I think you need more heat or less heat loss. What is the wattage of the turbo oven and is it the only thing running on that electrical circuit? How high did you preheat before dropping the beans? Can you completely close the roasting chamber or is it always vented to some extent?
sea330's mods worked great, but I really have to drop hot and conserve heat to make the larger batch sizes work. I've insulated everything and I live in Arizona!
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I have tried 1# 5 Oz with pretty good success (just under 14 min to finish), however I charged at 400 deg and had to use bottom heat to keep things moving into first crack. I use a GG at 1440 watts with two stock SC stir arms stacked on top of each other, seems to give me better agitation, the 60 RPM 13 watt motor is a must with big loads. I do close the ejection hole and open when things get rolling.
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The 1st batch was 1 & 1/2 pound. Thanks for the replies. I did charge to 425f. Second roast done now. It was 14 min on 1 pound. Lower the heat unit. It is 1200 watt supentown. Pic attached. Looks good, no?
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Been a few years since I've posted, but I was curious if anyone has perfected a stirring mod / agitator yet?
I think my stir crazy motor is on its last legs after roasting over the years and not sure the stirrer I am using is well designed enough to extract enough agitation.
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Dlofx,
Sea330's mod on the previous page of this thread works well and is fairly inexpensive. I've increased batch size to about 450g with good control and nice even roasting. The limiting factor seems to be heat. Summer temperatures help (I live in Arizona) as does insulation. I use dual stock stirring arms, but there are some killer stirring arms pictured on the previous page as well.
Welcome back.
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Dlofx,
Sea330's mod on the previous page of this thread works well and is fairly inexpensive. I've increased batch size to about 450g with good control and nice even roasting. The limiting factor seems to be heat. Summer temperatures help (I live in Arizona) as does insulation. I use dual stock stirring arms, but there are some killer stirring arms pictured on the previous page as well.
Welcome back.
Off of your advice, I doubled up the stirring rods, though I created one off the previous page and combined that with the stock one. MUCH more even roast and did two batches of about 350g.
Sea330 created a modified shaft for me over a year ago now that has been nothing short of awesome. I think the next mod will be beefing up the motor as beans still do get stuck occasionally.
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Happy to help - or actually point to help. The increased RPM motor with more power makes roasting more relaxing in the sense that there is less fiddling. Cheers.
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Anyone have troubles tripping breakers with their TO? I just out together a SC/TO system, utilizing a galloping gourmet. I can't get the thing to run at 500 degrees for more than about 30 seconds before it trips the breaker. I even tried running an extension cord from my garage to my house (kitchen) to separately power the TO. The grounded house plug got tripped immediately. Anyone else experience this? Or have potential solutions in mind?
Thanks
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Something is definitely wrong. I have a galloping gourmet on my SC/TO and only blew a breaker once when I first started and that was because I had it on a circuit with a freezer which overloaded the 15 AMP breaker. I assume that when you used the extension cord, it blew a different breaker. I'd take the GG inside or to a friends home and run it without the extension cord. If it still blows the breaker, than there is something wrong with the GG. Lots of other possibilities, but that is where I'd start.
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Good answers, Peter.
Do you know the Amp ratings on your different circuits? Do you have a circuit where you can isolate it so that the TO is the only thing drawing juice? It might be something like Mr. Morton found, that there's something else running and your TO is just pushing it over the edge. If you can get it to run for 30sec at 500*, try running it at 400* and see what happens; if you can run it even for 30sec., it would seem to me that the TO doesn't have an internal short. If you have a Kill-A-Watt or some other way to measure the amperage that the TO is drawing that would help too.
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Thanks for the replies, guys.
I took the TO inside and plugged it in (good advice) and it works there without issue. The electrical in the garage seems to be the weak link. I'll need to do a fair amount of research, as I know next to nothing when it comes to electrical; a good opportunity to finally learn it. If there isn't a reasonably easy fix I may have a SC/TO for sale on the forum soon.
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It could be a weak breaker at the box. It doesn't happen often, but if tracking down another device on the same circuit turns up nothing unusual, I'd replace it. Pretty cheap too.
Good luck.
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Yup, breakers get old and sometimes weak.
Don't give up on the SC/TO just yet. You'll want to get to the bottom of the garage power issue anyway. Besides, there's no better way to roast coffee. ;)
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Simple bigger, better, faster, SC/TO high torque motor replacement for ~$35
Motor from EBay $23
Search ebay: “110vac 30rpm reversible motor strong magnetic torque D-shape shaftâ€
7mm to 8mm shaft coupler 22mm length from ebay $5
Search ebay: “5/6/7/8/10/12mm Shaft Coupling Rigid Coupling Coupler Motorâ€
¼ inch socket extender. $4 Local hardware store.
Check extender rod diameter for 8mm. Most are that size in the 2-3 inch length.
Cut off female end leaving 1.05 inches.
Figure out the center the motor with modification to the plate. Punch a 1 inch hole in the bottom plate. The motor tabs are taped for 10/32 bolts.
I used a SPDT center off toggle switch in series with motor. That way I can select the direction and also stop the rotation. Radio shack ~ $4 Not necessary!
SC standoffs: ¾ inch schedule 40 PVC pipe with caps. Drilled hole in cap and connected to SC with ¼ X 20 4inch bolts.
No problem doing 1+ pounds of beans. Very powerful torque motor that will not stop.
(http://bobbooks.net/SC-TO%20MOTOR%20MOD.jpg)
(http://bobbooks.net/SC-TO%20MOTOR%20MOD%20LEGS.jpg)
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Outstanding! That looks easy enough that even I could do it.
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New 30rpm motor modification has exceeded my expectations with a perfect even 1lb 2oz roast. First crack at 8 minutes, dump at beginning of 2nd crack at 12 minutes.
See the greens spin before roasting at: https://youtu.be/f1EgAlr3ipc (https://youtu.be/f1EgAlr3ipc)
Final roast in cooling pot. (Beans look darker on my monitor than they are)
(http://www.bobbooks.net/roasted.jpg)
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Very nice! ;D
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I've made several modification updates on my 1+ lb SC/TO roaster.
The modification documentations with supply references can be found at: http://www.bobbooks.net (http://www.bobbooks.net).
I have also linked my roasting profile that I use for the beans I get from Nicaragua and how I adjust and meet the profile with the SC heater diode modification.
I have also posted 2 YouTube videos of the roaster and dryer in progress. I couldn't be happier with the results!
Bob
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Very nice!
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Hello everybody, I’ve read this post and it’s history on various occasions, but I wanted to start a more current conversation about who’s still using SC/TO’s, and the setups or mods that everyone is running. About 2 years ago I lucked into winning Richard’s donated roaster for the grounds for health auction. It’s made solid coffee for me since then, but I’m looking to possibly change things a little. I currently have no venting setup, besides lifting the turbo oven at various times to eject chaff and extra smoke, so I’m considering that, while also drilling a small hole to insert thermo probes through so I can get more info on each roast.
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Yes, to both the ability to open the spacer ring and temp probes. The spacer ring mod allow chafe to escape and help control temps in a gentle fashion. Lifting the TO usually results in too much heat loss. I have one of Richard's creations which I still use when I'm roasting large quantities for events. The temp probes allow for consistent roasting without as much focus, although I'm not sure how much it actually improves figuring out a profile. However, once a profile is dialed in, using temps and a stop watch is very handy.
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Thanks for the info Peter, I should look in to modifying my spacer ring. I’m not much of a macgyver, and don’t have much (any) experience with these types of things, but I’ll have to look back at the pictures I’ve seen of the spacer mods to get some inspiration and see what I can do with mine.
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Thanks for the info Peter, I should look in to modifying my spacer ring. I’m not much of a macgyver, and don’t have much (any) experience with these types of things, but I’ll have to look back at the pictures I’ve seen of the spacer mods to get some inspiration and see what I can do with mine.
My spacer ring is just not attached to the base for about 120 degrees of circumference and I use an angled stick to wedge it open when needed. VERY low tech.
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My spacer ring is attached together on the ends with little metal pieces, so I’d have to remove those, then see how I can keep the ring together. I could always drill bigger holes into it, then use a bolt to hold the 2 ends together, then I can create separation between the two ends like you do when I want to vent the roaster.
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My ring is attached to the base with small, self tapping screws. The "spring" in the steel spacer holds it closed so all I have to do is gently force it open with the "magic" stick. ;D
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Just looked through old posts in this topic and saw a post from 2011 where you mentioned how springiness of the aluminum would keep it together, and that it didn’t need to be over-engineered haha. You’ll give me the courage to mess with it and find a better solution 8)
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I have nothing to add; nothing on mine has changed in 10 years or more, so if you read through the posts you know what mods I am using currently.
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Just looked through old posts in this topic and saw a post from 2011 where you mentioned how springiness of the aluminum would keep it together, and that it didn’t need to be over-engineered haha. You’ll give me the courage to mess with it and find a better solution 8)
Actually, that was peter's comment (who just joined the party) also known as the Warden - Distributor, SC/TO expert. But I'm better looking. ;D
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But you don't have a Mona Lisa smile...
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NICE!!! ;)
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I’m glad my mistake provided some nice humor in the end ;D
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So I was able to get some time to tinker last night, and had just the right nuts and bolts to make a chaff door in my spacer ring, and it worked perfectly! ;D
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Excellent! It is a subtle change, but I think you'll like the increased control. Also, you can "guide" the chafe better - well sort of. ;)
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Does your door open and close? Some people have them open all the time and IMHO there's no point in letting heat out unless you need to.
Since you have yours roasting I'll assume you don't need this tidbit... but for those still in the build process, check the rotation of the TO's fan. You'll want to set up the chaff chute to accommodate that direction.
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For now I have mine open all the time. I have a good 4 to 5 inches of overlap in the ring, so I’ll need to find a good way to open it partially through the roast while still keeping a good shape with it. And of course for the first roast I used it, the opening was facing the wrong way, so that was fun. But then once I got it going it worked well. Even with the door opened through the whole roast, it still was a good 2 minutes faster then when I had to vent chaff by lifting the turbo oven slightly, so it’s an improvement for now until I’m able to open and close it during the roast.
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Don't underestimate the usefulness of the magic angled stick. By adjusting the amount of taper you put between the spacer overlap, you can adjust the opening size. Mine has worked well for 4 years I'm thinking of applying for a patent except I stole the idea from peter.
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I'd like to see a photo of the magic angled stick, Peter.
I promise my lawyers won't get involved.
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It looks like it's been a while since anyone posted on this subject. I've decided to chuck my Chinese sourced flatbed roaster for a SC/TO build.
A few problems to overcome:
1) I live in a 220v country, 110v appliances like a StirCrazy and most of the TO brands are not available here. What I've done is try to find the equivalent. For example, a Baumann popcorn maker instead of a StirCrazy. And a locally manufactured turbo oven, 220v, 1400 watts.
2) The Baumann stirs at approximately 5-8 RPM. In drum discussion, the RPM is usually much higher. Is 5-8 RPM sufficient, or is there a published mod to make the rotation faster?
3) The stirrer on the Bauman looks thin and rather inadequate. Is there consensus on a mod to get greater stirring action/agitation?
4) I usually use temperature to tell me when I've achieved the desired roast (usually City or Full City) To do that, I take the lid off my flatbed roaster and use a combo of 'quick-read' thermometer, and recently an infrared thermometer) to get the bean temperature. Is there a preferred mod to build in a thermocouple type of temperature probe(this is what I use for meat smoking)? Or some other recommendations, short of removing the TO to take bean temp.
5) Finally, cooling. I now use a colander and a fan to cool beans, and it takes a long time and is messy. I'm thinking of using a shopvac rigged to suck air through a colandar or steamer tray. Any comments or notes?
Thanks, I know there are experts, I hope you can point me in the right direction to start.
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The turbo oven
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but does it blow enough air to cause bean movement, if they just sit there, it won't do well for us, unless we add some sort of manual stir thingie to them.
Aaron
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but does it blow enough air to cause bean movement, if they just sit there, it won't do well for us, unless we add some sort of manual stir thingie to them.
Aaron
That's my previous post, using the Baumann popcorn machine as the 220v StirCrazy substitute. Here is a view of the stirrer.
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Using these 2 components, a 220v popcorn maker with bed and stirrer, and a 1400w turbo oven, I can, hopefully, start the construction of a SC/TO hybrid.
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Ok let me potentially save you some money.,
I had almost exactly the same idea several years ago, I got one of those stir wand popcorn machines, took the thermostat clicker out of the circuit and PID'd it for better temp control. anyways...
The main problem you are going to have is, the stirr arms, will NOT really rotate the beans, it will just slide them along the bottom. They will pile up in a pattern and kind of just slide, this causes a problem with even roasting. If you put enough beans on there that they do start to tumble over it, the ones on the very bottom may not get caught up enough to do that with. Maybe you can figure something out but that was a major drawback that I seen / experienced on setups like that.
Aaron
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You can use a coat hanger to make a new stirring arm, one that will ride along the bottom. It kind of depends on what batch size you want to have. I had a bunch of pics of my build, but google decided to delete them. If you think it would help, I'll re-take them.
I would suggest sourcing a 220v motor for the stirrer and adapting it, something with 30-60 rpm.
My two SC/TO's have a 1" aluminum spacer, with a 1/2" slot cut into the top and that's where my thermocouple sits. It rides in the beans and when it's time to dump it simply slides up and out of the way.
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Um, thank you. I am having trouble visualizing the spacer and thermocouple you mentioned. If you could supply a pic of that part of the build, I'd be grateful.
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Ok let me potentially save you some money.,
I had almost exactly the same idea several years ago, I got one of those stir wand popcorn machines, took the thermostat clicker out of the circuit and PID'd it for better temp control. anyways...
The main problem you are going to have is, the stirr arms, will NOT really rotate the beans, it will just slide them along the bottom. They will pile up in a pattern and kind of just slide, this causes a problem with even roasting. If you put enough beans on there that they do start to tumble over it, the ones on the very bottom may not get caught up enough to do that with. Maybe you can figure something out but that was a major drawback that I seen / experienced on setups like that.
Aaron
In terms of saving money, you mean the whole PID circuit thing? I hope you are not saying to abandon the whole SC/TO idea.
The Chinese flatbed I have now is nothing more than the working part of a popcorn maker. Heating element under the bed, and two stirrer arms.
Nothing I've seen about the whole stircrazy idea does anything different about the stirrer/bean interaction, yes, the beans slide along until they reach a high enough point to tumble over the arm. And yes, I get a somewhat uneven roast.
The bed heater also takes a long time to heat up, and for anything approaching or exceeding 500 grams, it takes 30 minutes to roast, unless I stay at the top temperature from the beginning, which tends to scorch the beans.
The advantage I see over what I have now is the heating/blower action of the turbo roaster.
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No, im saying, just using the stirrer as it is, may not do what you want it to, as Peter mentioned, you will have to mod the arm to get it to work right.
As for the entire PID thing, no that sounds great, Id like to see it.
Heat input and retention is important. If it heats too slow then you are more cooking or baking your beans than roasting them and besides for taking forever, the flavor will be ehh. Too fast and you scorch, tip, and other problems.
If the blower one could actually dance the beans that'd be perfect I think. One thing on thermostats, you have a pid .. thats good. you may need to take out the Thermo's they have built into those things, they may have one control, which is really just a very crude bimetallic clicker generally, and one overtemp to cut the whole thing off if it overheats. control it with your pid and you are good, be mindful of the power you pull through that pid controller, it may only like am amp or so, use external relays or I find that I like ssr's a lot better for power control.
Aaron
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This is the PID I'll use.
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There are a couple of ways this could be wired up, but this is what I'll probably use. I originally envisioned it to control a fan/blower in the smoker, but I think I will experiment with using it to control the turbo oven. Not sure if this will work or even if it is needed, but I'm stuck in the house, so what the hell.
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Fun project! My experience was that allowing air to escape the roasting bed (along with chaff via an adjustable gap in the aluminum spacer that Peter mentioned) was the most controllable way to adjust ET and thus BT. The PID could be fast enough to make that unnecessary for temperature control and improve duplication of roasts. Chaff ejection during the roast is still going to be an issue however - especially with naturals.
I modified my stir crazy with a 50 RPM, 220V motor and "cat whiskers" (2 slightly wavy arms separated by about 3/4 of an inch at the tips at slightly different heights off the roasting bed floor) and it worked excellent for larger batches. The torque of the 220v motor was a huge plus and allowed for the dual arms. Good luck!
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You can get motors that do from 6 to probably 30 rpm etc at many BBQ sites too. They use them for rotisseries. Most r's go slow like 2 or 3 rpm but some are geared faster depending on what you need. I even seen one that had a motor with pretty much 'snap on' gear boxes. You get the motor then buy a gearbox for whatever RPM you are looking for slap it on and then stick the rod into the output and viola you are good.
Aaron
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I can get 50rpm 220v motors from China (AliExpress), but shipping is expensive and time-consuming. I think you can get reasonable torque (depends on the motor build and subsequent $$$) for larger roasts. Do you know the specs on your motor?
I was hoping you (or someone would reply on this subject). I timed my flatbed, and the new flatbed popcorn popper I just bought and they are 8-10 rpm, seems slow.
The current setup takes 30 minutes to roast 1/2 kg, 12-15 minutes to roast 300g. I'm hoping to reduce that or get even bigger roasts. Spending 3 hours in the garage roasting 7 300g roasts is kinda boring.
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I can get 50rpm 220v motors from China (AliExpress), but shipping is expensive and time-consuming. I think you can get reasonable torque (depends on the motor build and subsequent $$$) for larger roasts. Do you know the specs on your motor?
I was hoping you (or someone would reply on this subject). I timed my flatbed, and the new flatbed popcorn popper I just bought and they are 8-10 rpm, seems slow.
The current setup takes 30 minutes to roast 1/2 kg, 12-15 minutes to roast 300g. I'm hoping to reduce that or get even bigger roasts. Spending 3 hours in the garage roasting 7 300g roasts is kinda boring.
I'm able to roast about 450g in 13 minutes. The motor will handle more, but I can't get a fast enough temperature ramp up to make for a good roast. In the summer (Arizona 40 degrees C) I could roast 500g with adequate preheat in less than 14 minutes.
The roaster is at my neighbors, but I'll stop by later today and get the specs on the motor and take a picture.
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I bought the motor, delivered, in 2015 for $36.
Zhengk A60KTYZ Ac Synchronous Gear MotorModel: A60KTYZ Motor Body Diameter: 60mm Motor type: AC Synchronous Motor Centric Shaft Gearbox integrated Voltage: 24VAC/110VAC/220VAC Torque: 2.5Kgf.cm~90Kgf.cm Frequency: 50/60Hz Rotating direction: CW/CCW
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FYI, my turbo oven was a 1470 watt early Galloping Gourmet. Still works great although it looks pretty grungy. The aluminum spacer is a 3.5 cm wide, meter long measuring ruler from a local hardware store. Make sure the aluminum is thin enough to bend easily. It is attached to the base about 2/3s of the way around with self tapping screws and is sprung closed. I used a magic angled stick mentioned earlier in this thread to open and close the spacer. This is my first gen roaster with cheap ET and BT probes. The ET probe worked great, but the BT probe could be fussy. Second gen I upgraded the BT probe to something more substantial (and it was prettier too.... ;D ) Picture of spacer held open by magic stick below. PM me your email address if you'd like more pictures.
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Oh, and be sure you have the spacer open in the direction of your convection ovens rotation to aid with chaff removal. It is still a mess however....
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I'm able to roast about 450g in 13 minutes. The motor will handle more, but I can't get a fast enough temperature ramp up to make for a good roast. In the summer (Arizona 40 degrees C) I could roast 500g with adequate preheat in less than 14 minutes.
The roaster is at my neighbors, but I'll stop by later today and get the specs on the motor and take a picture.
I'm a little surprised at the size of your batches. I thought the whole point of the turbo oven was that you could generate enough heat/air to roast larger batches.
Do you set it to a single temperature, let the setup preheat for x minutes, then dump in the beans and let them ride? Or do you change the temp at various time intervals?
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Maximum heating capacity is limited by physical laws although some recent roasters designs achieve greater heat transfer efficiencies than an SC/TO. With a 110v source, a 1470 W heater like I have is about the best one can hope for using a household appliance. This limits my batch size while still achieving a reasonable rate of rise. With 220v, you can get a lot more bang, but if your heat source is only utilizing 1400 watts, your batch size will also be similarly limited. It is important to note that there should be a thermal limiter in whatever stirring base you use, so while you may be able to pour in more than 1400 watts of energy at the beginning of the roast, as you move past the drying stage toward 1C, your turbo oven will be doing all the work. If you disable that thermal limiter, I'd be very concerned about burning up the beans, roaster or much, much worse! I never use the heating element in my stirring base past drying stage as controlling the rate of rise is not predictable and energy adjustments during the roast are important to bringing out the best in various beans. Rao's "decreasing rate of rise" mantra is an excellent baseline roast profile, but definitely not a "set it and forget it" endeavor - especially heading into and through 1C.
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Peter, any updates on the KKTO?
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Peter, any updates on the KKTO?
I bought a Huky, so I sold the KKTO without using it!
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The glass on my GG is becoming less and less transparent as the years go by... I spent some time trying to clean it using a host of different types of cleansers, including some Urnex Cafiza, but made little progress.
How do you guys clean your glass?
Thanks,
Phil
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Have you tried soaking it in soapy water and using one of those green scrubbie pads? Often times that gunk is burned on varnish from the bean smoke and oils.
If you can get the glass only, some sodium carbonate, yes the stuff that is scale remover or coffee pots, that is ALSO pH UP for swimming pools, only a LOT cheaper to buy for pools, might work. Hot water and let it soak a bit then hit with a scrubbie see if you can get it to come clean.
Have you also tried Rubbing alcohol on a sponge?
aaron
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Back when I cared to look at the beans... I don't care anymore and roast by temp, smell, and sound... I used an oven cleaner spray and a razor blade. Spray, let it sit for a minute and the gunk would come off fairly easily. It was kinda messy, but the glass was crystal clear again, and I never detected any residue afterward.
The only time I need to see the beans is to make sure they're hit yellow at the end of the drying stage before ramping up the heat, and a quick lift of the lid lets me see w/o losing too much heat.
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Peter:
That's exactly why I wanted to get a good look at the beans on Saturday--to get an estimate on the green-to-yellow transition time/temp. I had only one small spot on my glass where, using a flashlight, I could hope to see it. I have not tried oven cleaner.
Aaron:
No: I've not really 'soaked' it because the glass is still attached to the rest of the top and I've been trying to keep that part dry. In fact, I suspect that all my attempts have been compromised by not using enough water--I should probably get someone to help me and do something like: soak in in about 1" of sudsy water (or however tall the glass part is), and then get someone to lift it up but keep it inverted while I scrub at it from below w/a scotchbrite pad.
I'll take stab at trying these methods this weekend and report my results.
Thanks for the ideas,
Phil
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If you're only going to clean it every once in a long while, you might think about taking it apart. You can get the glass entirely separate that way, can clean the flaky gunk out of the interior too (believe me, it does build up in there and could lead to bad air circulation and over-heating, then a dead TO).
But again, lifting the top for a quick peak to check color won't hurt a thing.
Do you use a thermometer of any sort? That would give you a good idea when it's nearing 'yellow' so that you're only lifting once. Another thought enters my mind; if you're overall profile is sound and you're not racing from drop to 1C then you'll be in the drying phase for a suitable time and transitioning into yellow correctly, and looking won't be absolutely necessary.
Cheers!
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I really did NOT want to go here.
I really do NOT want to go here
But HERE we are.
WARNING: THIS IS DANGEROUS, PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !!
WHAT YOU DO IS ON Y O U
For really badly stained trashed glass, Lye works wonders for cutting that crap off.
This is NOT for the feint of hart. These are industrial strength potentially dangerous chemicals. If you are not used to working with bad stuff. DO NOT. do this.
But Lye will cut crap off glass and ceramics like you never seen before. It will also EAT YOU! I mean think... it will eat hair out of drain clogs, and turn fat into soap to gurgle away down the sewer. So what do you think it's gonna do when it hits your hand / arm??
The stuff you put in your coffee pot as 'scale remover' is super lite, junior, baby lye. ie a slight alkaline. Lye is the grand daddy of alkaline solvents. (within normal people's ability to aquire).
Do know tho, lye will also eat the hell out of metals, especially those lighter in the elemental table like aluminum, so don't dunk the entire thing in there.
Wear gloves if you are going to work with this, and id recommend to be on the safe side, goggles and potentially an apron so if you splash you don't eat holes in your clothes
Aaron
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I also urge caution when using Lye but a little less alarmist than my friend Aaron. He's the admin though so there's liability to contend with!
Safety glasses and rubber gloves for sure, plus the ever present "be mindful" operating state. My ditzy SO uses it all the time without any trouble.
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If you're only going to clean it every once in a long while, you might think about taking it apart. You can get the glass entirely separate that way, can clean the flaky gunk out of the interior too (believe me, it does build up in there and could lead to bad air circulation and over-heating, then a dead TO).
I'm not exactly sure when I put this roaster into service, but it was at least 9 years ago--I think this would count as 'once in a long while'... I like the idea of getting the glass off and maybe just dropping it in a tub of Cafeiza for a few hours. The recirc fan in my turbo oven is making some noise, possibly due to gunk, so cleaning that would be prudent.
Do you use a thermometer of any sort? That would give you a good idea when it's nearing 'yellow' so that you're only lifting once. Another thought enters my mind; if you're overall profile is sound and you're not racing from drop to 1C then you'll be in the drying phase for a suitable time and transitioning into yellow correctly, and looking won't be absolutely necessary.
I do have two 2mm TCs: one for ET and one for BT. Both sampled at a 2Hz rate and brought over to Artisan via WiFi using their Modbus interface. I've been tweeking profiles, trying to get consistent phase percentages, and to get better consistency and RoR curves lately.
I really did NOT want to go here.
I really do NOT want to go here
But HERE we are.
WARNING: THIS IS DANGEROUS, PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !!
WHAT YOU DO IS ON Y O U
For really badly stained trashed glass, Lye works wonders for cutting that crap off.
This is NOT for the feint of hart. These are industrial strength potentially dangerous chemicals. If you are not used to working with bad stuff. DO NOT. do this.
and
I also urge caution when using Lye but a little less alarmist than my friend Aaron. He's the admin though so there's liability to contend with!
I'm thinking I'll try to remove the glass and soak it in various less potent options. If that fails, I'll move on to the oven cleaner idea and finally, if necessary, to the lye. It's good to have options.
Thanks again!
Phil
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If you're only going to clean it every once in a long while, you might think about taking it apart. You can get the glass entirely separate that way, can clean the flaky gunk out of the interior too (believe me, it does build up in there and could lead to bad air circulation and over-heating, then a dead TO).
I'm not exactly sure when I put this roaster into service, but it was at least 9 years ago--I think this would count as 'once in a long while'... I like the idea of getting the glass off and maybe just dropping it in a tub of Cafeiza for a few hours. The recirc fan in my turbo oven is making some noise, possibly due to gunk, so cleaning that would be prudent.
Do you use a thermometer of any sort? That would give you a good idea when it's nearing 'yellow' so that you're only lifting once. Another thought enters my mind; if you're overall profile is sound and you're not racing from drop to 1C then you'll be in the drying phase for a suitable time and transitioning into yellow correctly, and looking won't be absolutely necessary.
I do have two 2mm TCs: one for ET and one for BT. Both sampled at a 2Hz rate and brought over to Artisan via WiFi using their Modbus interface. I've been tweeking profiles, trying to get consistent phase percentages, and to get better consistency and RoR curves lately.
I really did NOT want to go here.
I really do NOT want to go here
But HERE we are.
WARNING: THIS IS DANGEROUS, PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !!
WHAT YOU DO IS ON Y O U
For really badly stained trashed glass, Lye works wonders for cutting that crap off.
This is NOT for the feint of hart. These are industrial strength potentially dangerous chemicals. If you are not used to working with bad stuff. DO NOT. do this.
and
I also urge caution when using Lye but a little less alarmist than my friend Aaron. He's the admin though so there's liability to contend with!
I'm thinking I'll try to remove the glass and soak it in various less potent options. If that fails, I'll move on to the oven cleaner idea and finally, if necessary, to the lye. It's good to have options.
Thanks again!
Phil
Phil, I used to just use a single edge razor blade to start the cleaning for the glass and then it was pretty straight forward. At that point, Simple Green is your friend. The fan was usually chafe and gunk and required more elbow grease. Often compressed air would suffice between servicing for the fan, but you sound ready for the big cleaning! Good luck.
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I had forgotten how easy it was to take apart. I soaked the glass overnight in Cafiza and it cleaned up easily. The fan and other internals were in surprisingly good shape. Here are a few pictures:
Glass after cleaning:
(http://dirtyLid.jpg)
Glass after cleaning:
(http://cleanLid.jpg)
Roaster back in service:
(http://roaster.jpg)
-Phil
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Now that looks mighty purty there. Easy to clean too, which is good.
Hopefully you get a lot more use out of it.
aaron