SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks

[headchange4u]

Being both a IR2 owner and a SC/TO owner I can definitely say that the SC/TO roasts do taste different. The SC/TO is can be more nuanced a detailed IMHO. Since getting the hang of my SC/TO roaster I hardly ever use my IR2. I'm actually getting ready to sell it. It was a really good roaster and I enjoyed playing around with it. The IR2 ability to use pre-programmed profiles allow to to produce fairly consistent roasts.

The only problem I had withe the IR2 was that the temp constantly climbed. You could never really "hold" a temperature, but you could increase and decrease that rate at which the temp went up by modifying the profile.

[Tex]

Part of the trouble I had with the TurboCrazy & UFO/Co was I didn't use it enough to master its finer points. What I like about the Sonofresco is you don't have to tinker with it to get a great repeatable roast.

I liken it to a Gaggia Classic or Rancilio Silvia. If you master temp surfing and pay attention to the tiny details you can make very good coffee with either machine. But if you PID those machines you can enjoy a more laid back approach, let the machine attend to the details, and still have a very good cup of coffee.

I suppose I'm at that point in life when I'd rather enjoy the shortcuts and let others chase the bunny down the hole.

[J.Jirehs Roaster]

I have TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, Sonofresco, air popper roasters, but no drum roaster, yet. I wouldn't expect a difference from one machine to the next - if you can match profiles.

An air popper is pretty much a balls to the wall proposition; there's not a whole lot one can do to alter the roast profile.

I use a PID to turn on and off the heat of either an air popper, heat gun, TO, any AC 110v heater that will not blow my SSR I just tell the PID were I want to go and when I am done being at that temp I tell it to go higher... the PID is not reacting the same from one heat source to another but I believe I can keep the beans under 300 for 3 minutes and hold them in the caramelizing zone if I want and drop the power just enough at 1st crack to slow it down before I rage into 2nd crack

The UFO/CO is a lot more tailorable, but profiling is still hit-or-miss since it's so hard to reproduce a successful roast. I've tried lots of things; multiple PIDs to let me hit particular temps and hold the roast there; multiple timers so I could predict when 1st & 2nd crack was about to occur, etc. Nothing really helped because there were so many variables that I just couldn't manage enough of them.

The Sonofresco has 9 preprogrammed roast profiles. I'm still playing around with them, but so far I prefer levels 3 & 4 best. Looking at my roast notes I know I can hit a City roast (426?F) time and again, and the Yirg Koke I roasted today will taste the same as what I roasted last week.

that is the genius of the Sonofresco... I can go in to the shop once in a blue moon and play with the new beans... pick a Sonofresco profile or two that do the bean justice and the shop owner can train any snot nosed kid off the street to roast coffee... The down side is.. did the beans get good dry time (3 minutes under 300) would the bean taste better with a little linger in the caramel zone ??

Unless one can reproduce a successful roast then the results will obviously be unpredictable. Not necessarily bad; because I invariably got some very drinkable coffee from my TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, & air popper. I just couldn't pick up the same greens I'd roasted last week and know what they were going to taste like this week. That's the only difference I've noticed.

I would love to have a Sonofresco with more control (milowidgeted) but if I could have any one roaster I would take a drum over a fluid bed... their are beans that taste better in a fluid bed but so far drum roasted coffee wins in my mind and the SC/TO is the next best thing

[Tex]

...

Unless one can reproduce a successful roast then the results will obviously be unpredictable. Not necessarily bad; because I invariably got some very drinkable coffee from my TurboCrazy, UFO/CO, & air popper. I just couldn't pick up the same greens I'd roasted last week and know what they were going to taste like this week. That's the only difference I've noticed.

That's the crux of the matter isn't it?  (the bold, italicized sentence)  From my experience with the SC/TO you're revealing more about the roaster than the roaster.   

I agree 100% with your observations Peter! One thing though; even if I didn't get the same roast every time, I'd always get something very drinkable. That was part of the fun; sort of like opening a Christmas present every week!

It's only now that I'm considering taking coffee to the craft fairs & farmers markets that I'm concerned about repeatable profiles & roasts. If I sell someone something they like then I feel I have an obligation to have that in stock more or less constantly.

[Tex]

I use a PID to turn on and off the heat of either an air popper, heat gun, TO, any AC 110v heater that will not blow my SSR I just tell the PID were I want to go and when I am done being at that temp I tell it to go higher... the PID is not reacting the same from one heat source to another but I believe I can keep the beans under 300 for 3 minutes and hold them in the caramelizing zone if I want and drop the power just enough at 1st crack to slow it down before I rage into 2nd crack

How did you program the PID - auto tune or custom? I found that the PIDs were mostly being hi-tech tstats; that they weren't using their ability to vary power all that much. I use Watlow 935A/93 & 965 models, plus CAL Controls 3200/3300 models. What I think I needed was a multi-input/multi-setpoint controller, but the ones I could find were Gawd-awful expensive!

[John F]

If I sell someone something they like then I feel I have an obligation to have that in stock more or less constantly.

I advise that you resist the urge to feel that way. 

[J.Jirehs Roaster]

I use a PID to turn on and off the heat of either an air popper, heat gun, TO, any AC 110v heater that will not blow my SSR I just tell the PID were I want to go and when I am done being at that temp I tell it to go higher... the PID is not reacting the same from one heat source to another but I believe I can keep the beans under 300 for 3 minutes and hold them in the caramelizing zone if I want and drop the power just enough at 1st crack to slow it down before I rage into 2nd crack

How did you program the PID - auto tune or custom? I found that the PIDs were mostly being hi-tech tstats; that they weren't using their ability to vary power all that much. I use Watlow 935A/93 & 965 models, plus CAL Controls 3200/3300 models. What I think I needed was a multi-input/multi-setpoint controller, but the ones I could find were Gawd-awful expensive!

Good advice John... I embrace the uniqueness of my roasts (because I am not a machine) Ichi-go ichi-e (一期一会, literally "one time, one meeting")  I know that is pretty zen for a 'born again' but their is a little truth in it...

I am still playing with the settings in the PID but I have learned to set the target temp under my real target and then achieve my profile... it is not as smooth as the Sonofresco or exact as the milowidget but it gives me more room to play with my profile... I believe with time I will get very repeatable results... partially from fine tuning the PID and mostly from experience.. I started out trying to make this an exact science but I enjoy the art of the roast way too much... or as you put it.. 'Christmas every week'    I am faced with the same problem you are as I prepare to start roasting for farmers market my ace up the sleeve is that my main product (daily drinker) is roasted on a larger scale by some one else (coffee ambassadors and the local shop with a roaster)... and I am selling small quantity extra specialty coffee for that extra special event, my money is in the pottery first coffee and tea sales are close second

[Tex]

If I sell someone something they like then I feel I have an obligation to have that in stock more or less constantly.

I advise that you resist the urge to feel that way. 

I don't know about that John; I remember walking a mile or more out of my way to get an espresso at a little cafe in Milan, just because I thought it was great! If I do decide to sell at the fairs I'd like to have some folks be repeat customers, and I don't see how I do that without having some consistency in the product I sell.

Most folks I know who like the exotic flavors are usually already home-roasters (or moochers from home-roasters). I'd like to lure the folks who aren't quite there yet into being my customers. Too tame for you?

[John F]

If I do decide to sell at the fairs I'd like to have some folks be repeat customers, and I don't see how I do that without having some consistency in the product I sell.

Let high quality be your consistency.

Source the best beans you can, take care in roasting and prep, and give them higher quality coffee than they normally get.

I say that for a lot of reasons but most of all the consistent "signature blend" is at the end impossible. Setting out down that path could give you nothing but 100 headaches.   

Forget the roasting part of it altogether and it's still impossible...

Focus on the roasting only and at best it's either problematic or "automatic"...

BUT... I do not have a coffee shop or market stand. Nimbus, Rasqual, BW, guys like that would be best to say how things work with customer expectation and such, I am just talking coffee specific here.
 

[mp]

Drum roasts are more 'roasty' and 'smoky', with more body and less high-end.   

TurboCrazy has more high end, with less body, smokiness, and Maillard roast products.   

FR8+ results are really dependent on how much control you have.  Off the shelf and unmodified it is a burning machine, with poor ramping and development.  With a variac and a smaller load, you get something more like a TurboCrazy than a drum. 

Great description BW ... which in your opinion produces a bean that is more suitable for espresso ... the SC/TO or drum?

 

[SusanJoM]

Susan, is your probe one of those long pointy metal ones?  If so, I'd go as low as you can so the angle of the probe is as shallow as possible.  That way  you'll have more of the tip buried in beans.

Okie doke.  I;ve made a couple more mods and I have a couple of questions.

I added foil around the handle on the far side from the chaff exit, (to cut down on draft), and I drilled a hole for the thermometer.
The hole for the thermometer puts the thermometer just above the rotating arms, but.....it tilts.  I tried adding some foil around it to stabilize it, but I really seemed to have to hold it all the time to keep the tip in a reasonable place in the bean mass.  And, no way can I focus if I am trying to hold the probe steady, read the timer, read the temperature, watch the color, listen for cracks, and smell the smells.  Given that almost all of that is necessary, does anyone have a suggestion for stabilizing the probe?

Oh yeah, those are some Yemen Saan'ani beans.
Thanks

[dmankin]

... does anyone have a suggestion for stabilizing the probe?

Susan,

Drill another hole with a smaller diameter drill bit - it needs to hold the TC firmly... and it sounds like yours is wobbly.

David

[Tex]

... does anyone have a suggestion for stabilizing the probe?

I'd opt for something like this. If your probe is 1/8" get a 1/8 NPT x 1/8" tubing brass fitting. Use two 1/8 NPT nuts (get 'em at Lowe's or Home depot in the lamp parts department) to hold the fitting in place. Just finger tighten the top nut on the fitting - you don't want to crush the ferrule around the probe.

[J.Jirehs Roaster]

Susan, is your probe one of those long pointy metal ones?  If so, I'd go as low as you can so the angle of the probe is as shallow as possible.  That way  you'll have more of the tip buried in beans.

Okie doke.  I;ve made a couple more mods and I have a couple of questions.

I added foil around the handle on the far side from the chaff exit, (to cut down on draft), and I drilled a hole for the thermometer.
The hole for the thermometer puts the thermometer just above the rotating arms, but.....it tilts.  I tried adding some foil around it to stabilize it, but I really seemed to have to hold it all the time to keep the tip in a reasonable place in the bean mass.  And, no way can I focus if I am trying to hold the probe steady, read the timer, read the temperature, watch the color, listen for cracks, and smell the smells.  Given that almost all of that is necessary, does anyone have a suggestion for stabilizing the probe?

Oh yeah, those are some Yemen Saan'ani beans.
Thanks

I am having a lot of luck with this mod from peter another pic here check out the whole story starting here

[peter]

I say you're better off having some wobble-room in your hole, and forget about having the probe sticking straight at the center of the bottom unit.  If you let it ride in the direction that the stirring arms are rotating then you can just let the probe rest on the bottom and the arms will push it up and pass under it.

You'll notice my probe is weighted with a couple small nuts, which is why I have a slot and not a hole.  I 'dremeled' the slot, and the width of the slot is what determines what sort of angle the probe will ride downstream.