Author Topic: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks  (Read 116782 times)

Offline antoine_t

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #615 on: March 21, 2015, 04:44:07 PM »
I still use my SC/TO.  It plugs into a standard (US) 110/120 VAC outlet.  I have the heating element on the SC wired to a separate switch so that I can turn it on and off without affecting the stirring motor.  I mostly leave this bottom heating element off, as that gives me a better roasting profile targeted at first crack around 9:30 into the roast.

good to know

once i get my variac, ill try it without disconnecting the heating element first to see how my results are


i have already disconnected the heating element from my SC.

My oven is rated at 1300W. 

I roasted some peru beans and FC was about 6.30 in

Did some costa rica beans and FC was at 5.30

temps were the same 375F on the TO. 

Interesting eh

RamzyB

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #616 on: March 21, 2015, 11:40:25 PM »
You're hitting first crack too soon.  Since first crack doesn't happen until the beans are around 405 degrees F, the generated temperature is higher than the temperature setting.  Are you measuring the temperature with a probe in the mass of beans?

With the turbo oven set at 390F and the bottom heat off, my temperature probe measures a rise from around 240F at 1 minute up to 370F at 7 minutes, then I raise the temperature to 440F and the beans hit first crack at 9:30 or so.  They are usually done by 12:00.

Since the first part of the roast is drying out moisture in the beans, bean density and charge size ( I use 12 ounces) will affect how long it takes to get the higher temperatures.

I only use the bottom temperature if it is the first batch and needs preheating, or if for some reason the beans just aren't heating up fast enough from the turbo oven heat on top.  But be careful to not chase the temperature.  Temperature rise will lag the settings, then catch up and overheat.  The bottom heat will drive the beans into first crack way too soon, so it should only be on for a very short time, if at all.  If you made the separator ring properly, you will be able to vent heat quickly if you need to, to control overheating.

ButtWhiskers

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #617 on: March 22, 2015, 01:24:26 AM »
Hitting first crack at 6 or 7 minutes is not bad with this method if you can keep control and not hit your desired endpoint for at least another two minutes (and continue a slow rise without stalling or wobbling).  The bottom heat shuts off somewhere between 335 and 355 depending on your exact stir crazy, so the only real effect is to drive the temperature up in the early part of the roast.  If you are roasting at least 8oz, it will help stabilize the temp and drive off the moisture.  The actual temp on the CO unit is never anything like the dial says, it has more to do with the ratio of time on to off.  I've found that I get the best environmental temperature ramp by starting out at a 400 target then dropping to 370 after 4 minutes or so on an unmodified halogen element oven.  You can easily hit 440 bean temp at that setting (!) with this configuration, but most importantly you will get a proper ramp arc without a rate of rise increase after FC starts, and you will not stall the roast.  This sounds completely opposed to what many sources recommend, but it will give you the best development for a 10-12 oz roast.  This has been my experience with at least 15 ovens, some of them split wired, over the last 9 years.  I have roasted at least 2500# by SC/TO, and rarely monitor temperature any more, I can tell by the smell...  Nowadays I mostly use turbocrazy for sample roasts, as all my production is done with a 5# old school RK and a 14# homemade drum, but it is still my 'go to' method for small or precious runs.   Every oven has its own 'personality', the halogen element Sharper Image device is my preferred one these days, with the old Galloping Gourmet the runner up (but these usually have to be run hotter).

Offline grinderz

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #618 on: March 22, 2015, 09:11:00 AM »
BW, is that #14 pound roaster of yours the milk can roaster that you were working on all those years ago?
var elvisLives = Math.PI > 4 ? "Yep" : "Nope";

ButtWhiskers

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #619 on: March 22, 2015, 09:29:23 AM »
Nope. Just a big stainless drum welded up out of 304 perf. I posted some pictures of it out here a year ago...  the milk can roaster never worked right, and I eventually have up after wrecking two milk cans and a bunch of green.

Offline sea330

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #620 on: March 22, 2015, 01:33:41 PM »
After mounting a 60 rpm motor on my SC The bean agitation made all the difference, I struggled with the stir arm. I finally ended up mounting two original stir arms on top of each other seems to work good. roasting 1.2 pounds at a time works great, if I get a order of a pound I don't need to fire up my 2 Kilo roaster, much less hassle and more efficient. I am using a GG 1500 watt turbo oven and the SC element hooked up with a inline switch in case I need to push it, rarely ever need to use it.

Yes, I will post pics as soon as my camera charges up. Everything was purchased off ebay, I'm into it for $37.00 and my time about a couple hours to install. The motor has plenty of power runs at 14 watts 60 rpms, found a stick of 11/16 aluminum round stock for the shaft, drilled a 7mm hole to  connect the motor shaft and a 1/4 20 bolt on the stir arm end.

Motor
http://www.ebay.com/itm/351134319741 $21.00
trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Motor shaft 11/16 aluminuum round stock, I had them cut it into 12" lenghths.$7.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150297434120?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Step-up converter $about $7.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEP-UP-VOLTAGE-CONVERTER-110V-to-220V-TRANSFORMER-50W-/221224331625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3381ff6969

Simple instalation, mounted the motor with sheet metal screws on the metal access plate on the bottom of the SC.Built 4 of them for Family and freinds, havent had one fail in a year going strong
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 09:47:47 PM by sea330 »

Offline grinderz

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #621 on: March 22, 2015, 04:33:01 PM »
Do you have the info on your improved motor handy, sea330?
var elvisLives = Math.PI > 4 ? "Yep" : "Nope";

Offline sea330

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #622 on: March 22, 2015, 09:50:43 PM »
Just added to my previous post.

Offline antoine_t

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #623 on: March 23, 2015, 10:56:04 PM »
Just added to my previous post.


nice set up!

what's the difference between yours and something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Synchronous-Motor-120V-AC-60-rpm-4W-7mm-shaft-E149393-/291410574669?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d96c7d4d

i am planning on buying this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161608031945?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT as it runs at 30/36 r/rpm and has about 1kg of torque which should be good for my needs.

My current stir crazy only has a really anemica  5/6 r/rpm motor at the moment.


edit: i have a k type thermostat being shipped to me as we speak.  cannot measure bean temps at the moment. 





Offline sea330

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #624 on: March 24, 2015, 08:18:04 AM »
I have tried the 30/36 rpm motor with out success, the motor torque is inadequate, It would stall. I have a couple of them would be happy to send you one to try. I can guarantee you, for what we do with these things it's a wast of time. I have looked into motors that take 120 VAC running 50 to 60 rpms with the torque needed is really tough, I have found a couple but their expensive.

Rich
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 09:26:43 AM by sea330 »

Offline Alan

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SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #625 on: March 26, 2015, 04:21:46 AM »
You're hitting first crack too soon.  Since first crack doesn't happen until the beans are around 405 degrees F, the generated temperature is higher than the temperature setting.  Are you measuring the temperature with a probe in the mass of beans?

With the turbo oven set at 390F and the bottom heat off, my temperature probe measures a rise from around 240F at 1 minute up to 370F at 7 minutes, then I raise the temperature to 440F and the beans hit first crack at 9:30 or so.  They are usually done by 12:00.

Since the first part of the roast is drying out moisture in the beans, bean density and charge size ( I use 12 ounces) will affect how long it takes to get the higher temperatures.

I only use the bottom temperature if it is the first batch and needs preheating, or if for some reason the beans just aren't heating up fast enough from the turbo oven heat on top.  But be careful to not chase the temperature.  Temperature rise will lag the settings, then catch up and overheat.  The bottom heat will drive the beans into first crack way too soon, so it should only be on for a very short time, if at all.  If you made the separator ring properly, you will be able to vent heat quickly if you need to, to control overheating.

I think we are doing essentially the same thing except my SC heater is disconnected. Batch size and timings are pretty similar
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 04:45:18 AM by Alan »

Offline stevea

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #626 on: March 30, 2015, 12:18:36 AM »
Nice motor mod sea'.   I'd worry about the heat for a 1.2# load, but I suppose you don't use it for back-to-back roasts.
"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow."  — Mark Twain

Offline antoine_t

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #627 on: April 06, 2015, 03:43:08 PM »
hey everyone, so my variac came in and i tried out the tanzanian peaberry I bought from slim.

I have  3" spacer I bought form walmart with a thermocouple inserted into the middle of the spacer about 2" up from where the beans sit (environmental temp i guess).

It was a bit cold outside at around 50F and I started with 280g of beans

FC outliers took about 10.30min @ 410F
Rolling FC about 12min @ 450F
SC outliers at about 14.5min @ 500F, this is when I dumped it. 

The temp kept rising in between the FC and SC.  The beans look and smell pretty nice, I will give it 24-48hrs prior to tasting.


My question is, prior to FC, what temperature should I try to aim for?  When I start hearing the outliers of FC, should I turn down the temp, ramp it up, or keep it constant?  Same question, as it approaches SC outliers.

Also prior to hitting FC, what temps should I aim for?

i realize all beans are different, but I am aiming for full city roasts

Thanks for your time
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 04:10:34 PM by antoine_t »

Offline ptrmorton

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #628 on: April 06, 2015, 04:10:45 PM »
It is difficult to comment unless you can give a bean mass temperature.  I use a SC/TO (actually SC/GG) and your environmental temps don't tell me much about where you are in the roasting process.  I use my environmental temp (vs. bean mass temp) to prevent stalling the roast, but focus on bean mass temp for my profile.
AZ Peter

Proverbs 3:5-6

Offline antoine_t

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Re: SC/TO Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks
« Reply #629 on: April 06, 2015, 04:37:11 PM »
It is difficult to comment unless you can give a bean mass temperature.  I use a SC/TO (actually SC/GG) and your environmental temps don't tell me much about where you are in the roasting process.  I use my environmental temp (vs. bean mass temp) to prevent stalling the roast, but focus on bean mass temp for my profile.

that's a pretty darn good point.

my current thermocouple is a twisted wire with a bead of solder (i think) on it, which is attached to the thermostat....

I am assuming the bead of solder helps detect the temperature.  i'll thread it down to where the beans are next time I roast and report back.


Should I protect the bead with something?