Author Topic: Able KONE  (Read 58700 times)

Offline rasqual

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #375 on: November 14, 2012, 08:41:23 PM »
Reviewed the thread.

Oils and body are more pronounced.


I have to disagree with this. But not by way of contradiction, per se.

The problem with "body" as commonly understood, is that it's more difficult to judge when fines are present in the cup. The fines themselves are so predominant in the mouthfeel that body qua body is easily lost in the judgment.

I'll illustrate by appealing to the reader's intuition: take three coffees that cup with greatly differing evaluations of body. I guarantee that if you took the lightest body of them and brewed it in this device, and compared it with the heaviest bodied of the bunch brewed through paper, the former would be assessed by many as having more body.

But is that true? Why should one not simply judge that it has more fines, which masquerade as body?

Is body a quality of how we brew? If so, then what business have we rating coffees as coffees for body, if that quality is so radically subject to variations in how it's brewed? Worse -- how it's ground, if we're talking about standard cupping and not paper brews.

I'm just really skeptical of referring to this variation as one of body. In some sense ("well what else should we call it, Scott?"), I can understand that nomenclature. But if we're willing to call a fluid's turbidity "body," we've lost the value of univocity that body might have.

Heck, can we just say it's "more turgid?" (edit: Argh, I meant turbid) That has the benefit of being obviously true with such brews, and it doesn't interfere with what this guy, at least, thinks of as a narrower -- and more valuable -- understanding of what we mean by body.

Now, it could be noted that a brew method that is 'cleaner' will allow a clean coffee to present itself as such, as opposed to a less clean brew method that allows more particulates though and the coffee presents itself less 'clean' than it really is.


I think this is another way of pointing in the direction of what I'm trying to say.

Why not?


Hmm. The permeability's variation depending on how the bed is sustained in a stable form or disturbed by the pour, is one of my concerns. The analog of an aquifer is apropos of the 3D character of filtration in such brewing methods.

The KONE cup is much more dependent upon pour than paper.


Frighteningly so, I'd say.

Today I tried a pour in a Clever after screening the fines out of the grind as thoroughly as practical.

Still more turgid (edit: Argh! Turbid!) than a 5 micron polyester Aeropressing, with mouthfeel clearly influenced by the presence of fines. Not a lot of silt in the bottom of the cup.

If I found this "particulate body" somewhat offensive, though, it might be because today I also enjoyed some good paper pours with screened grind, resulting in a noticeably different extraction than I'm accustomed to. I have a pretty dull palate, so when I notice a difference I consider it significant. It was quite good. Weirdly, I'd say it lacked the complexity that over-extracted fines lend to a cup, permitting me to enjoy the proper complexity of a properly consistent extraction.

Heh. Ok, if some wish to refer to suspended fines (turbidity) as "body," then I get to refer to the contribution of over-extracted fines to the cup as enhanced "complexity."    ;D
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 10:28:15 PM by rasqual »

Offline peter

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #376 on: November 14, 2012, 09:26:04 PM »
See now?  If you cupped with us on a regular basis, we'd have you trained in how to distinguish between body and turbidity.   ;)

I say that only with only part of my tongue in my cheek.  I think you can get a feel for particulates and mud, and still get a grasp on body as a separate descriptor.  I further think you can determine mouthfeel as yet another aspect.

A true cupping session done per the standard format would of course take the brewing methods out of the equation.  I can only trust that using a consistent brewing method will give me a reasonable denominator across all the coffees I cup.
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Offline rasqual

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #377 on: November 14, 2012, 10:29:49 PM »
I say that only with only part of my tongue in my cheek.

The mark of a conflicted palate, I'd say.   ;D

Offline headchange4u

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #378 on: November 15, 2012, 07:40:00 AM »
I contacted Able about the broken lip on my Kone v3. They immediately shipped me a replacement Kone, no questions asked. Awesome customer service.

SJM

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #379 on: November 15, 2012, 07:47:40 AM »
This might have already been answered somewhere in these nineteen pages but I got tired of looking. Do I need to adjust my grind when using the Kone in my V60 and Chemex or do I stick with the same grind as I use with paper?

My Kone 3 should be arriving today so I am bumping Eric's question for my own purposes.
I will be comparing this to using the Hario V60 with paper filters...
What do I need to know from the get-go?

Susan

milowebailey

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #380 on: November 15, 2012, 08:06:24 AM »

What do I need to know from the get-go?

Susan

Don't poke yourself with the pointy end... it hurts.  And watch the video for tips

Single Cup Brewing: Using the Kone

SJM

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #381 on: November 15, 2012, 09:00:14 AM »
Thanks, Larry,
I kinda wish he hadn't spit in the equipment first, but....
I got the idea ....

Susan

Offline YasBean

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #382 on: November 15, 2012, 09:28:30 AM »
Nice movie!
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SJM

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #383 on: November 15, 2012, 04:37:02 PM »
Don't poke yourself with the pointy end...

Kone 3 just arrived and guess what: 
NO pointy end....a small (1/8"?) flat round bottom.
Lucky for me 'cuz I'd a hurt myself for sure....

Susan
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 04:46:28 PM by SJM »

BozemanEric

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #384 on: November 15, 2012, 05:19:49 PM »
Do you really grind finer than a filtered pour over, as in the movie?  When I tried my normal, filtered pour over grind I got a ton of sediment.

Offline mp

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #385 on: November 15, 2012, 07:27:00 PM »
Don't poke yourself with the pointy end...

Kone 3 just arrived and guess what: 
NO pointy end....a small (1/8"?) flat round bottom.
Lucky for me 'cuz I'd a hurt myself for sure....

Susan

You go girl!

Let us know what you think of Mr. Kone.

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Offline peter

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #386 on: November 15, 2012, 07:43:16 PM »
Do you really grind finer than a filtered pour over, as in the movie?  When I tried my normal, filtered pour over grind I got a ton of sediment.

12 on the Virtuoso, and very little sediment here.
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SJM

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #387 on: November 16, 2012, 09:40:50 AM »

12 on the Virtuoso, and very little sediment here.

Ditto #12 on the Virtuoso....haven't found any sediment yet, but I'm still enjoying the first cup....
I like it !!!

Did someone say the previous versions had different size/spacing on the holes as they came up the sides of the filter?  Mine has all the same size holes.

My pour was probably a bit too slow.  I finished emptying the measured water out of the kettle at 2:45 but the drawdown didn't finish until 3:55.   Still it tastes good.

And, pouring right into the middle feels all wrong, but except for one time when my hand just would not obey and did a slow whirl around half way to the perimeter, I did as I was told.

Still tastes really good.....:-)))

Susan

SJM

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #388 on: November 16, 2012, 09:53:16 AM »
My understanding was that Gen 1 had larger holes, optimized for commercial grinders, Gen 2 had smaller holes which resulted in less sediment for most users, but slower pours for large batches.

I thought I had heard that Gen 3 was designed to be optimized for smaller and larger batches, with either different sized holes or a different pattern so that when you poured a large batch it would pour though at a good rate taking into account the added restriction of the additional coffee grounds.  I could be smoking coffee grounds, though.

Does anyone have one of each so they could take pix?
This is the first one I have ever seen, so I have no idea how it compares to earlier ones.
I do think it has been optimized for me, though....

Susan

SJM

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Re: Able KONE
« Reply #389 on: November 16, 2012, 09:57:18 AM »
I've got Gen 1 and Gen 2, I'll take a picture once Gen 3 from the travelling roadshow comes my way unless someone else has the set and can post it before I can.
That will be interesting.
I suspect that tips for using Kones are different depending on which generation is being used.

Susan