Coffee Crafters Artisan 6 fluid bed roaster

[dsil]

I finally finished hooking mine up today, and threw a roast in just winging it.
Looks and smells good, only the cup will tell.
Very impressed with the machine, and build quality.

[kjr55w]

Sadly, I must agree with your sentiments, Doug.

[Ascholten]

I understand the key is to know what your machine can do, and how to get it there, but with that said.

Do you believe the machine can do as little as say a pound at a time, and up to 4 or 5 pounds at a time and do them well without really having to stretch it's capabilities or pray really really hard that it turns out ok?

Ive been reading through the notes and so far it seems like I might be leaning towards this one here.  I really like the thought of electric over the gas models in any roaster really..  Just preference for ease of use, but have heard so much from many places that electric never gave you the real 'control' you needed and is limited on the higher end of roasting weights, ie they just can't get there. 

Has anyone tried 4 or 5 lbs yet and how did it do?
Ive been looking and I can put this in the garage right by the power box, and vent it right out the side wall outside... or hell just open the garage door and vent it in the garage and let it waft out.

Thank you
Aaron

[kjr55w]

Hi Aaron,
My 2 cents after 25 roasts. I think the CCA6 does a great job on 1 lb and up. My normal batch size is 2.5 lb (1134g) which gives me a little over 2 lb roasted. Two 14 oz bags to give away and enough for me to sample.
Two weeks ago I did seven 250g batches, same as I do in the Gene. If all I wanted to do was roast the beans in a controlled manner, it is a piece of cake, control the heat and air, look listen and smell until done.  But I am more interested in consistancy and repeatability. With the wee charges the challange is getting the time temp data recorded accurately or at least consistantly`and that means placing the thermocouples in the "right" spot. With 1 lb and up it is no problem, Ken's suggestions are on the mark: 1" away from the roast chamber and some minimum distance into the fluid bed. I believe most of the owners are doing 5 and up lbs. The most I have done is 3 lbs, still plenty of heat and air available. I had the most luck with the 250g batches placing the bead just above the bed and letting the expanding beans move into it so the last temps are the most accurate. I am working on a number of solutions, which I may not need if I can just afford 3 lb and up batches!
I do really like this roaster, it is really fun to roast. I know Doug  is not going to dread the big jobs any more. My only concern is still cup quality, but I have already produced some great coffee on this roaster and i can oly imagine itgetting better as I learn.  Last week I did a 250 g batch of Brazil to 447F and my espresso note at day 3 was "Sweetness fairies dancing on top of the tongue." My daughter (a doppio fan) agreed.
Kevin

[Ascholten]

thank you kjr.
That was the thing that initially concerned me with this roaster was the cup quality.   Their advertisement really seemed to be pushing how 'fast' it can make coffee,  fast is not necessarily a good thing!!   I was worried that it was going to be a coffee furnace more than a coffee roaster and cook them too fast, or that to get just that 'one' spot of air flow and heat to make it work how WE like it, was going to be such a micrometer adjustment you have to hone in on that it's going to take a lot of trial and error to get the thing to do something it wasn't really made to do as a primary goal.

Im seeing now that it appears to be very adjustable and able to put out a good cup of coffee here.    My typical roast size is going to be probably in the 1 to 3 lb range.  Maybe more for when I get a CAzul that is awesome and i got everyone at work wanting some too.

thanks for your detailed reports on this roaster.

Now i need to figure out how big a pita it is going to be to get it shipped to my house here if I do get one.

Aaron

[kjr55w]

Aaron,
I thought others may find Ken Lathrop's response yesterday regarding the bean test and automation informative:

<Good test. I did a similar test early on to see how round hoppers performed compared to square ones. Pretty interesting. The first 2 prototypes I build had PID temperature controllers as I was convinced that you needed them to produce consistent roasts. After doing many tests, and cuppings I came to the conclusion that they are not necessary and found no evidence that they produced any noticeable benefits. I did notice that you can definitely roast too fast on a fluid bed roaster. We did a huge cupping test with a bag of beans roasting from 5 to 15 minute roast times in 30 second intervals. What we found was that beyond 7.5 minutes it was difficult to tell much difference in taste. I did notice some differences with certain beans finish, ie some sun dried processes held chaff to the bean much longer which showed on shorter roasts.

I've been roasting faster at lower temperatures lately as a personal preference. I'll bring the temperature up fairly quickly and  hold the temperature between 500 and 520 degrees through the end of the roast. I haven't cupped this coffee against the same bean roasted at a higher temperature so I don't have any evidence it's better than another profile. I'm just cautious not to roast too quickly. I roasted a pound of beans in 2 minutes 40 seconds one time. Nasty stuff and the chaff burst into flames on the way up the shoot ).

Thanks for the update.

Happy roasting! Ken>

[Ascholten]

Thank you for this reply KJR.   I am remembering back when I used to use my I roast regularly,  I need to dust that thing off and give it a whirl again for old times sake.
Yes it DID make good coffee and yes the average roast time was in the 7 to 8 minute range.  Much more and you had very dark beans.  I know my standard setting on it was roughly 3 minutes at 375 degrees  3 minutes at 405 degrees, bumped it to 410 as the machine aged and heat was a bit lower and at the end id set it to 5 minutes but typically pull it at about 2 minutes at 430 degrees.  Using sight, but mostly smell and sound as my indicators when to stop the roast.

I also remember playing with a poppery I and roasting that way with a cambell soup can chimney and using the amount of beans to control the loft, and figuring out how to do a batch in about 3 minutes...yep it was coffee!!!   Point being I am pretty versed in CFB roasters.

Knowing that it would do 500 G batches is good to know.  I am thinking of my supplier Royal, they give 8 oz samplers,  Id probably do it in the behmore to sample and big batches in this machine.

2.5 lbs sounds like the ideal batch, end up with 2 lbs out the hatch give or take a bit.  Now I need to clean the pig sty out of the garage and make room for this beast.  I think I am about talked myself into getting one.    I believe that if I start roasting coffee in bigger batches, I do have a market here.  I have had numerous folks ask me about it if I would sell it and I think I might move into that territory here.

Thank you everyone for your question and answer session for this machine.

Aaron

[dsil]

I have run about 10 roasts through mine, and am very pleased with the roaster. Using the temp probe and a stopwatch, I have been able to closely mimic the sonofresco profile, and tweak slightly depending on bean type. The adjustments needed are small but frequent, and I have picked up on it pretty quickly. I highly recommend it if you are on the fence. I was, and am very happy I bought it.

[Ascholten]

kjr  520 degrees sounds VERY hot.  What temperature is that there?  How does it translate to the temps we normally 'speak in' ie 400's

Aaron

[kjr55w]

Aaron,
The 520 refers to the temp controller at the topof the control panel (Love Controls TCS thermocouple switch) which uses the stainless J type thermocouple at the top of the tube coming out of the heater unit to measure what I would call inlet temperature and is used only as a safety temp controller to limit the heat coming in to the roast chamber to whatever value you set it to. The bean temp is obviously in the roast chamber and measured with the allclad meat thermometer or whatever thermocouples you put there.
Kevin

[Ascholten]

Now that you have been using this roaster for a while, how do you like it?

Any advice / suggestions for someone thinking to get one?   Things we need to know or look out for with it?

Thanks
Aaron

[kjr55w]

Hi Aaron,
I am very happy with the roaster, I have not used my other two roasters since I got it. It fills my non commercial needs perfectly. I cannot say what the issues might be in a commercial production setting, I only roast about 8lb a week, but I look forward to using it and only wish I had more time to experiment with it.
Like every other roaster the first roast of the day seems to suck up heat and I find I like to warm it up well to get the consistancy I want for my limited roasting.
Also the bean loft seems to me to be very important to the controlled transfer of heat and I  would like to have time to experiment with a method for standardizing that parameter.
All but about 3 of my 45 roasts have produced good to great coffee. I have come to think that  the major part of that result is because of the great people like you and our other distributors that make the effort to get good beans for us. No garbage in = good chance for no garbage out.

[Ascholten]

Thank you kjr.  Id not really be using it for commercial or really hammering it myself to be honest but at times need to make some coffee.  The price of this machine seems very good for what you get and id rather not have to deal with propane / butane / natural gas.  One more 'thing' to go wrong.  Electric is clean and easy and won't leak and go kaboom in the garage 

Ill probably be getting one here by the end of the year with a bit of luck.  Maybe when I am on my christmas vacation i can order it and get it in and get it hooked up and play with it then.

Bean loft is important for even roasting that is for sure.  My early days with my I roast taught me that and just a slight change can make a big difference.  Basically you want enough movement to cycle the beans around in there yet not enough to blow them all over the place.  If the air is moving too fast the heat may not transfer to the bean properly enough either, latency does count for a bit.  Not enough and you can tip them / scorch them.

It has two elements in it.  Are they either just on or off or can you adjust the heat on them?

Aaron

[kjr55w]

Aaron, the two elements each have an on/off switch on the panel, but the model 6 added continuously variable heat control through the SSR's, so there is really no need I can see to "mix n match". I just turn them both on. The pot is marked from 1.6K to 10K I think and on my 2.5 lb "halfbatches" I usually start at 9K to add a lot of heat to start (a la Scott Rao). Another factor I have not had time to explore is the fact that    I have 3 phase service here at work and I measure the voltage on the single phase circuit leg at 208V, so it is not 240V to the heater elements. Maybe I am a little "underpowered"?
My focus on the loft control came about because of the smaller batches I have done and the narrow band of control on the pot. Recently I have had a couple of batches that reached degree of roast (lightness) such that a "surging" motionof the bean mass was triggered, i.e the power of the loft air flow was lifting the entire mass of beans up and down with a "whump-whump-whump" sound. The solution obviously is to turn down the air flow a bit, but the narrow band to work with on the rheostat makes that kind of tricky. Also I think a variac on the loft motor might be beneficial to disengage it from heat power setting changes.
Kevin

[Ascholten]

Thak you kjr, so it is variable, that is awesome.  That in essence gives you two tools to control heat.  The actual heater and the amount of loft (to some extent)

I believe my mind is made up and I am getting one.  maybe before christmas.  Have a major repair on my projector to do and the engine light just blinked on the car today so have no idea wtf THAT is yet.   sigh.... which one of you told the car I had some spare money in the bank?   ::grumble::

Aaron