Able KONE

[headchange4u]

Keith,

Any chance you have video of the KONE in action?

[Joe]

1.Please do not tell me or on a forum in front of your audience that I made this to make money. That is rude and offensive to me.


2.This crazy thread was my greatest fear of releasing this as a "product". I cant believe people out there like you exist and feel it ok to post things as you have about me. I once again challenge you to meet me before posting anything else negative about me.

3.My email is keith@coavacoffee.com . I will give you my cell and we can have a heart to heart if you like. If you do not call I find it not acceptable to post your personal opinion about me as a person and my motives.


Keith

1. If your offended I am sorry, but "most" people manufacture something and pay all that money to get a return on investment. I didn't think you would feel personally attacked by those statements. So for that I am sorry.

2. I'm not sure what you are afraid of, IMO you should've capitalized on the opportunity. But you haven't.... yet. You can still offer our group a better more competitive price for your product. If the price was better you would've probably had a different set of posts by me. I am not trying to post negative remarks about you personally, if I did it wasn't intended, The way your product was introduced etc. wasn't done properly and that isn't your fault. You seem like a stand-up guy and you are at least answering the Q's in a quick manner so for that I hope it works out for you.

3. I'll pm you my number you can call me anytime. I'm a nice guy.. really.

So hopefully you feel less on the defensive, look at the amount of people we have on the forums, realize only a fraction ever read this particular forum and when we want to buy something in force we aren't kidding. 

[BoldJava]

I have already received my tracking number.  Thanks much.  Looking forward to using it in a cupping session of the Local Locos Yockels.

B|Java

[headchange4u]

Also,

Have you ever tried the KONE in conjunction with a pour over station, with the filter supported by the stand, suspended over a cup or decanter? I bet the "bleeding" effect of the coffee through the filter would be something to watch.

[northwestmark]

Keith,

Thank you again for the offer you extended to the club.
Everyone please remember Keith is an active part of the coffee community and put a lot of time, effort, capital etc into these KONEs.
He did this for the love of coffee, much like we are all roasting, tinkering, experimenting for the love of coffee. He is not out to make a killing on these. Just in the same way we are not out to make a killing on splitting bags of coffee and having fun doing it.
There's really no reason to knock a product that I'm guessing 99.9% of people haven't tried.
We should be commending him for his commitment to advancing coffee education and brew methods.

Mark

[milowebailey]

I have already received my tracking number.  Thanks much.  Looking forward to using it in a cupping session of the Local Locos Yockels.

B|Java

Me too.  Thanks Keith.

[milowebailey]

Keith,

Thank you again for the offer you extended to the club.
Everyone please remember Keith is an active part of the coffee community and put a lot of time, effort, capital etc into these KONEs.
He did this for the love of coffee, much like we are all roasting, tinkering, experimenting for the love of coffee. He is not out to make a killing on these. Just in the same way we are not out to make a killing on splitting bags of coffee and having fun doing it.
There's really no reason to knock a product that I'm guessing 99.9% of people haven't tried.
We should be commending him for his commitment to advancing coffee education and brew methods.

Mark

+1

I've had a cup at coffee fest that Atlas made.  Good cup, but nothing to compare it to.  I plan to test the Kone with the Swiss Gold, same coffee, same everything else.... then I'll decide if I like it.  

With that said I like that Keith is buying American, is a small business and wants to support his passion..... which is also my passion.

I'll report back in a few days, since mine is in the mail.... less than 200 miles from my house.

[cfsheridan]

Ordered.  Thanks for the discount offer...now I have to resist the irresistible urge to buy a Chemex.  Maybe I can time the order to coincide with a planned trip by she who must be obeyed or appeased.

[milowebailey]

Ordered.  Thanks for the discount offer...now I have to resist the irresistible urge to buy a Chemex.  Maybe I can time the order to coincide with a planned trip by she who must be obeyed or appeased.

Hint, hint

[Joe]

Man John must be writing a novel. He's been posting in this for like 5hrs 

I bet a lot of deleting and rewriting are going into this post that should appear sometime tonight 

[cfsheridan]

Ordered.  Thanks for the discount offer...now I have to resist the irresistible urge to buy a Chemex.  Maybe I can time the order to coincide with a planned trip by she who must be obeyed or appeased.

Hint, hint

Dang it Larry you are not helping!  I've still not let on to how much Colombia and Bolivia microlots will be stashed here shortly....not to mention my nefarious plan for the Ambex that I've yet to buy....

[John F]

Reading all of this there is just one part I don't understand.

Why the insistence that it was never made to sell or make money?

I guess I'm just thrown by that because 1) I don't see anything wrong with the idea of making a product to sell. 2) Why order 1,000 filters and spend 20K for a personal use product when (I am almost sure) a good fab shop could make a dozen of them for a lot less cash?

But aside from that there is the coffee angle.

I find myself between Peter and Joe on this part. I agree with Peter that we don't know what is going on with the cup without testing it. I'd want to test it properly before saying what the cup brings. However......I also feel compelled to take some guesses   I have a hunch the cup is going to be closer to a Swiss Gold than a French Press but for usage that hardly matters. Looks like the main intended use at this time is a permanent Chemex filter. Chemex paper makes a way different cup than either FP or SG so anybody switching from paper to Kone will be getting a different cup.

As for the price... I've got no doubt it costs more to make things sourced with all USA parts and labor. I've got no doubt tooling and set ups cost a lot of money. I have no reason to question how much was invested in this project....I don't get why 1,000 units were purchased (not to sell) and I personally don't think I am the target market to pay $50-$60 for a metal filter like this but it does look really cool.   I can't speak for Joe but I don't think he intended to speak to the manufacturing costs exactly as much as 1) group buy vs retail pricing 2) Like me, is $50 an amount of money we feel like personally spending on this concept. A metal cone shaped permanent filter.

But....

B l Newtoy has ordered one so some testing notes are bound to arrive soon and who knows what will happen after that?

I remember thinking I would NEVER buy an aeropress and now I find it fills a slot in my line up that no other device can. It's a must have for my gear list these days so who knows... I'm guessing it's unlikely but who knows?

[John F]

Man John must be writing a novel. He's been posting in this for like 5hrs 

I bet a lot of deleting and rewriting are going into this post that should appear sometime tonight 

Hahahaha! I was watching TV over my shoulder and typing a word here and there...

For like 15 min not 5 hrs.   

I was also rambling off the top of my head and now you have me feeling self conscious. Like I was supposed to deliver a well thought out reply with my 5 hour power post. 

[milowebailey]

Ordered.  Thanks for the discount offer...now I have to resist the irresistible urge to buy a Chemex.  Maybe I can time the order to coincide with a planned trip by she who must be obeyed or appeased.

Hint, hint

Dang it Larry you are not helping!  I've still not let on to how much Colombia and Bolivia microlots will be stashed here shortly....not to mention my nefarious plan for the Ambex that I've yet to buy....

Let me help with the Ambex discussion.   "honey, if I get a bigger roaster I'll spend less time roasting and more time with you."

That worked for me.  And the Chemex... purely scientific research!!  Gotta help check out this new Kone filter.

[Coava Roasters]

Reading all of this there is just one part I don't understand.

Why the insistence that it was never made to sell or make money?

I guess I'm just thrown by that because 1) I don't see anything wrong with the idea of making a product to sell. 2) Why order 1,000 filters and spend 20K for a personal use product when (I am almost sure) a good fab shop could make a dozen of them for a lot less cash?

But aside from that there is the coffee angle.

I find myself between Peter and Joe on this part. I agree with Peter that we don't know what is going on with the cup without testing it. I'd want to test it properly before saying what the cup brings. However......I also feel compelled to take some guesses   I have a hunch the cup is going to be closer to a Swiss Gold than a French Press but for usage that hardly matters. Looks like the main intended use at this time is a permanent Chemex filter. Chemex paper makes a way different cup than either FP or SG so anybody switching from paper to Kone will be getting a different cup.

As for the price... I've got no doubt it costs more to make things sourced with all USA parts and labor. I've got no doubt tooling and set ups cost a lot of money. I have no reason to question how much was invested in this project....I don't get why 1,000 units were purchased (not to sell) and I personally don't think I am the target market to pay $50-$60 for a metal filter like this but it does look really cool.   I can't speak for Joe but I don't think he intended to speak to the manufacturing costs exactly as much as 1) group buy vs retail pricing 2) Like me, is $50 an amount of money we feel like personally spending on this concept. A metal cone shaped permanent filter.

But....

B l Newtoy has ordered one so some testing notes are bound to arrive soon and who knows what will happen after that?

I remember thinking I would NEVER buy an aeropress and now I find it fills a slot in my line up that no other device can. It's a must have for my gear list these days so who knows... I'm guessing it's unlikely but who knows?

I was saying that because of the comments that were said feeling like I was trying to pull a fast one on people. And feeling like I needed to defend myself of why I originally thought, designed and made the filter not why I produced 1,000. Yes I made 1,000 to sell but I originally made the filter as a concept and fun project. I thought making the small run which was 50 that we use at our coffee bar was going to be all that were ever created by myself. This changed when others wanted to have one. I didn't see dollar signs in my eyes I saw honest coffee loving people that wanted to support the idea and what they feel is a good tasting coffee it can make. I hope that clears that issue up for you.

IMO the coffee taste like that possibly similar to a clover. It does allow small fines to pass through. But because of the hole pattern shape and technique not nearly that of a french press. So somewhat of a brew between french press and filter I guess.

I didn't really aim to make it taste or brew much different then that of a traditional paper filter when I started the project. I just simply wanted a reusable filter that could last a long time and that didn't involve the use of plastic. I tried the gold cones by both Melitta and Bodum and neither of them I was really happy with. Both the quality/durability and the brewing. Not that it tasted bad I just wanted it to be better.

Keep bringing the questions and thoughts I'll keep responding. I value all the feedback, support, and concerns.

Best,
Keith