Help With Vivaldi

[Ringo]

I run commercial boilers at work, the steam that comes out is almost pure.  The dissolved solids are left in the boiler, this causes scale.   So I would guess on a espresso machine the more you steam milk the more problems you will have with scale.   In a boiler you exchange water every day to keep the concentrations down.  In a HX machine I would guess if you never do "FRU FRU" the water would stay clean in the boiler longer.

[Tex]

I run commercial boilers at work, the steam that comes out is almost pure.  The dissolved solids are left in the boiler, this causes scale.   So I would guess on a espresso machine the more you steam milk the more problems you will have with scale.   In a boiler you exchange water every day to keep the concentrations down.  In a HX machine I would guess if you never do "FRU FRU" the water would stay clean in the boiler longer.

Commercial machines with hot water wands pull the hot water from the steam boiler (True for HX & double boilers that I've seen anyways). I'd say that pulling hot water for Americanos and tea would keep the boiler flushed out pretty well.

Of course, a lot of coffee shops have hot water dispensers on their coffee makers, and pull their hot water there - in this instance the boiler water needs to be flushed regularly.

And that's frou-frou!

[peter]

Commercial machines with hot water wands pull the hot water from the steam boiler (True for HX & double boilers that I've seen anyways). I'd say that pulling hot water for Americanos and tea would keep the boiler flushed out pretty well.

Reading up on the S1cafe forum, I see the wisdom in simply draining the steam boiler from the cap on the bottom every month or two.  And probably doing a descaling every six months, based on pics of heating elements used in similar frequency and water hardness to mine.

[BoldJava]

Reading up on the S1cafe forum, I see the wisdom in simply draining the steam boiler from the cap on the bottom every month or two.  And probably doing a descaling every six months, based on pics of heating elements used in similar frequency and water hardness to mine.

Same thing the plumber suggests on the hot water heater but I will confess that I did it once.

34 years ago.

I descale the Silvia quarterly.

B|Java

[shakin_jake]

To get those quotes to work you can exclude the slash on the first one. And you only need one extra line break between lines to save scrolling.

Does heat exacerbate scaling/does it matter if the machine is on or off?

~~~Thanks Jeffo,  Sounds a little too techy for me to comprehend, but maybe that's why I'm using HX to pull my shots, instead of DB or more advanced machine?=:-)


Jake
Reddick Fla.
You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. Remember -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more.:Morpheus

I should have explained that better.

Instead of
[ / quote ]
Blah blah blah
[ / quote ]

You need to eliminate the slash on the first one. Spaces are inserted here so that you can see it without it actually activating

[ quote ]
Blah blah blah
[ / quote ]

Which without spaces would be:

Blah blah blah

The final slash 'closes' the code and let's it know that it's done. If you put a slash in the first one it messes it up. Computers aren't that smart.

~~~That's a better explanation Jeffo, thanks!



Jake
Reddick Fla.
"There's no such thing as bad weather, just innapropriate gear chioce"

[shakin_jake]

I run commercial boilers at work, the steam that comes out is almost pure.  The dissolved solids are left in the boiler, this causes scale.   So I would guess on a espresso machine the more you steam milk the more problems you will have with scale.   In a boiler you exchange water every day to keep the concentrations down.  In a HX machine I would guess if you never do "FRU FRU" the water would stay clean in the boiler longer.

~~~I believe there are empirical ideal water hardness levels one should stay at and below (in an HX boiler) to avoid calcium build up in the first place.  it's my understanding 75 PPM is the upper threshold.  Enough calcium there (@ 75 PPM) to provide taste (hardness).  My espresso tasted well at 50 PPM, using the Salvatore One Black HX machine I had

If one decided to use higher concentrations of calcium in their water, all is well, so long as you keep the machine on a regularly scheduled descaling program but if you want to avoid having to frequently descale, use lower concentrations of calcium in your suppy water.  That will be my stradegy with my upcoming Rimini project



Jake
Reddick Fla.
The Low-Self-Esteem Support Group will meet in the chapel Thursday at 7 PM...
Please use the back door.

[Jeffo]

The final slash 'closes' the code and let's it know that it's done. If you put a slash in the first one it messes it up. Computers aren't that smart.

Their is a need to correct spelling but I won't because people are probably getting tired of it.

Ouch.  Jeff, you are slipping, budd.

Woops good catch on the first one. And I'm not one to overuse apostrophes. Second was intentional of course.

I'm always glad to be corrected. But I think you need to be a little more creative in razzing me when I do make a mistake (witch will bee a long weight).

[YasBean]

I did my first descaling on my VBM double boiler after running Brita through it for half a year (I was away for 3 months, during which it rested).  I found very little gunk coming out of the coffee boiler, and small brown flecks from the steam boiler.  I usually run the steam boiler empty through the hot water tap once or twice a week to make tea.  This makes me think that Brita filtered water is mighty soft.  I suppose I could try using straight tap water.

[peter]

I'm curious about the running empty of your steam boiler.  I didn't think a machine would let you do that because of where the fill sensor is and how they don't want a heating element running without water in the boiler.

[YasBean]

I'm curious about the running empty of your steam boiler.  I didn't think a machine would let you do that because of where the fill sensor is and how they don't want a heating element running without water in the boiler.

Poor wording.   I draw as much water as will come blowing out steaming hot (~400ml of the 1,700ml capacity).  I end up replacing the boiler contents in about a week or two.

[Tex]

I'm curious about the running empty of your steam boiler.  I didn't think a machine would let you do that because of where the fill sensor is and how they don't want a heating element running without water in the boiler.

!) Remove the lead to the fill sensor and ground the lead.
2) Bring the boiler to temp, shut it off, and draw water from the wand.
3) Repeat #2 until boiler is empty(ish).

Descaling HX espresso machines (pretty much the same for any boiler type).

[peter]

Wouldn't that mean that at the end of the procedure you'd be running the heating element without it being submerged in water?

[Tex]

Wouldn't that mean that at the end of the procedure you'd be running the heating element without it being submerged in water?

This was written for Bunn ES-1A machines, which has the element very low in the boiler. The water outlet is mounted a bit higher than the element, so the element should never be exposed (I suppose you COULD steam out the rest of the water, but that would be an act of extreme stupidity, and you can't design anything to protect against stupid).

[peter]

I saw some pics on another forum of the steam boiler element of a Vivaldi after 6 months of use, somewhat heavier use than mine.  Based on that and the softness of my treated water, I'm pretty sure I can go a year.  And if it's only an annual thing, it won't kill me to take the boiler completely out and clean it and the element properly.  I'll have the boiler out and empty soon to insulate it, and will see how it looks after 8 or so months. 

Then, as long as I'm having that much fun, I'll open the group boiler up too.  But that boiler is smaller and the water is exchanged so much more frequently that I doubt there'll be any real need to do anything with it.

Noob qualifier; any and all the above is open for pot-shots.

[Tex]

I saw some pics on another forum of the steam boiler element of a Vivaldi after 6 months of use, somewhat heavier use than mine.  Based on that and the softness of my treated water, I'm pretty sure I can go a year.  And if it's only an annual thing, it won't kill me to take the boiler completely out and clean it and the element properly.  I'll have the boiler out and empty soon to insulate it, and will see how it looks after 8 or so months.  

Then, as long as I'm having that much fun, I'll open the group boiler up too.  But that boiler is smaller and the water is exchanged so much more frequently that I doubt there'll be any real need to do anything with it.

Noob qualifier; any and all the above is open for pot-shots.

Sounds like you've got it all figured out then?

One thing; most machines have a gicleur inside the group to slow down the rush of water when the shot first begins. These are notorious for plugging, so I'd suggest taking it out for inspection & cleaning at least on a quarterly basis. If yours doesn't have a gicleur, never mind.

The document I'm attaching isn't about your machine, but it does explain why it's necessary to keep the gicleur & screen clean.