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Author Topic: Lever pull basics  (Read 6221 times)

Offline staylor

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2011, 06:22:35 PM »
John, the PVL produces approx .5floz per pull. Every lever pulls differently in both subtle technique and volume.

Since you only own one lever that I know of, and that lever is a PVL, you need to do 1 x preinfusion pull followed by 2 x pulls to get a full extraction of approx 1floz. As I said earlier, every coffee, every grind setting, every age difference, roast level, humidity, phase of the moon and type of socks you are wearing will create some mior differences but...

It's .5floz per pull.

In case you need to hear it from someone else:

http://www.home-barista.com/levers/pavoni-pro-and-ponte-vecchio-export-t4863-10.html

"Some observations:

The Pavoni group is much more prone to overheat - it is much smaller than the Ponte Vecchio group, having no spring to contain. Also the taller, narrower PV group has a higher surface area:volume ratio, promoting cooling.

Shot volume of one pull of the Pavoni lever = two-three pulls of the Ponte Vecchio - depends on grind and dose in each. The Ponte Vecchio double basket (45 mm) appears to hold quite a bit more coffee than the 49 mm Pavoni. This is based on volume, not weight, and needs to be confirmed. If correct, this translates to a Ponte Vecchio cup that has considerable more coffee solids per unit volume of water. Thus the PV is pulling more of a ristretto (i.e. greater coffee:water ratio). To match this ratio on the Pavoni I need to stop the pull before it hits bottom.

The Pavoni baskets like their headroom - can't seem to get consistent results if I dose close to the top. At the dose that seems right, I need to stop the pull at about 1 oz espresso (and this happens to approximate the Ponte Vecchio coffee:water ratio of a two-pull, 1-oz shot). The difference here is that I can increase the dose in the Ponte Vecchio, which requires basically zero headroom, and get three or four pull shots that will near 2 oz (a traditional doppio.

Given I've spent two years with the PV and two weeks with the LP, these should be considered preliminary findings. I'll continue to post as I go..."
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Offline peter

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2011, 07:15:26 PM »
Quote from: John F on November 11, 2011, 04:28:03 PM
I've been having an ongoing issue with the second pull/Fellini move.

My girlfriend used like it when I pulled the Fellini move.  But since this is a family site...   8)
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Offline peter

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2011, 07:18:36 PM »
Quote from: staylor on November 11, 2011, 05:47:29 PM
Quote from: yakster on November 11, 2011, 05:18:17 PM
Pre-infusion pumps aside on my La Peppina, I just do a single pull on both the La Peppina and the Gaggia Factory and I believe that the espresso brew ratios are close to 50 % (28 g espresso for 14 g coffee).


Did you mean 2 x 14gm dosed PF's for a total of 28gms dosed, or are you saying the La Peppina (which I know nothing about) will accept 28gms in its PF? Which sounds like time and space is being folded in that PF.

I'd guess Chris is saying he gets 28g of liquid from 14g of grounds.
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Offline staylor

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2011, 08:08:24 PM »
You are probably right Peter, I read it fast and misunderstood.
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Offline Warrior372

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2011, 08:36:34 PM »
That is what he meant. The Peppina PF fits 13.5-14g snugly.
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BoldJava

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #65 on: November 12, 2011, 02:52:33 AM »
Quote from: John F on November 11, 2011, 04:28:03 PM
...
I'm going to start experimenting but has anybody gone to single pull (doubles)?

I only do single pulls.  Fellini was Italian; my machine is Swiss.  I typically run 15g coffee resulting in 25-29g of presso shot. 

B|Java
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Offline John F

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #66 on: November 12, 2011, 06:00:25 AM »
The 25-29g per single pull is what I'll use for experimenting.

If nothing else I'll learn some things..
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Offline John F

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2011, 06:44:06 AM »
Quote from: Warrior372 on November 11, 2011, 08:36:34 PM
That is what he meant. The Peppina PF fits 13.5-14g snugly.

Interesting..

The PVL holds 15g with no problem but my first measured single pull was 23g in the cup.

The Pep has a slightly smaller basket but slightly larger shot volume.

And the Swiss Miss is pulling 15g shots delivering ~27g pulls.

I'm totally SHOCKED I'm even looking at any of this to be honest. If anybody asked me my thoughts on anything close to these numbers I'd have told them none....I don't have any thoughts on espresso this side of 1.5oz per (pull). I'm not sure how this happened to me.  ???
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BoldJava

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2011, 06:48:10 AM »
Quote from: John F on November 12, 2011, 06:44:06 AM
...
I'm totally SHOCKED I'm even looking at any of this to be honest. If anybody asked me my thoughts on anything close to these numbers I'd have told them none....I don't have any thoughts on espresso this side of 1.5oz per (pull). I'm not sure how this happened to me.  ???

Levers will take you to the edge.  While I almost always measure weight, I am not judging by weight.  I am not looking for a boss hawg size shot.  I am strictly interested in how it tastes.  Then I am interested in the weight as a piece of data to help me find that shot again.

So much for my mental model of a 2-oz shot.
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Offline John F

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2011, 07:20:47 AM »
Quote from: BoldJava on November 12, 2011, 06:48:10 AM

So much for my mental model of a 2-oz shot.

No joke.
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Offline staylor

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2011, 11:57:09 AM »
About 30mins ago I pulled a shot of some darker roasted Tuktant that I sent to Charly as part of a trade.

15gms in the PF. A pre-infusion pull followed by two lever pulls. Espresso in the cup was 28gms.

Drank as a straight shot... Humungo rich chocolate, like a super high quality dark Belgian sipping chocolate, the kind that's served in Europe during the winter months. Kapow!
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Offline John F

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2011, 01:02:08 PM »
Quote from: staylor on November 12, 2011, 11:57:09 AM

15gms in the PF. A pre-infusion pull followed by two lever pulls. Espresso in the cup was 28gms.

My guess is that ~22g came from the first pull..
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Offline staylor

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2011, 02:46:58 PM »
Maybe 27gms came from that first lever pull. 

Maybe the final pull only puts out .5gms, or maybe .2gms... maybe that final pull is actually removing volume from the cup, acting like a lever pull time machine and reducing the espresso cup weight.

I don't know why I've pulled hundreds and hundreds of shots using the pre-infusion followed by 2 x lever pulls.

Maybe I should just start drinking preinfusion shots and forget about the follow-on 2 x lever pulls.
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Offline John F

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2011, 03:21:09 PM »
Hahaha.. Negative pull pulls.  8)
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Offline staylor

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Re: Lever pull basics
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2011, 05:44:51 PM »
If you do 10 pulls you convert the brown bean back into green.
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