CMA/Astoria (cafethema) Lever rebuild

[milowebailey]

The machine was originally 230 volt, but someone put in a 115v heating element.  I'm trying to decide if I'm going to leave it 115v or put a 230v heating element in it.  The boiler is right at 20A @ 115 volts.  Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

That's a big boiler for only 20 amps of 120 VAC; it'll take longer to reach initial temp stability and to reestablish it after pulling a shot or steaming. Most big-boiler machines use at least 30 amp 220VAC elements. I'd also consider wire heat - how old is the wiring and what gauge is it?

Given a choice, I'd prefer to run 220VAC; but I'd use whatever voltage the pump uses - no point in having multiple outlets in use.

Tex... two things. 

1) I'm going to put all new wiring in, so that's not an issue.
2) It's a lever..... there is no pump!

But if you go with a 20 amp 120VAC element it's still under powered for that large a boiler (My 4 liter boiler is just 16 amp 120VAC and it's borderline). Why not use the gas burner - that'd be my preference.

The 115v element is 2600 watts, the 230v element is also 2600 watts or and optional 4000 watt.... so it should heat up at the same rate with the 2600 watt element... so I would probably install a 4000 watt element. 

Using Propane inside isn't the best idea....without proper ventilation, so I'll likely not use the propane in the house.

[Tex]

The machine was originally 230 volt, but someone put in a 115v heating element.  I'm trying to decide if I'm going to leave it 115v or put a 230v heating element in it.  The boiler is right at 20A @ 115 volts.  Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

That's a big boiler for only 20 amps of 120 VAC; it'll take longer to reach initial temp stability and to reestablish it after pulling a shot or steaming. Most big-boiler machines use at least 30 amp 220VAC elements. I'd also consider wire heat - how old is the wiring and what gauge is it?

Given a choice, I'd prefer to run 220VAC; but I'd use whatever voltage the pump uses - no point in having multiple outlets in use.

Tex... two things. 

1) I'm going to put all new wiring in, so that's not an issue.
2) It's a lever..... there is no pump!

But if you go with a 20 amp 120VAC element it's still under powered for that large a boiler (My 4 liter boiler is just 16 amp 120VAC and it's borderline). Why not use the gas burner - that'd be my preference.

The 115v element is 2600 watts, the 230v element is also 2600 watts or and optional 4000 watt.... so it should heat up at the same rate with the 2600 watt element... so I would probably install a 4000 watt element. 

Using Propane inside isn't the best idea....without proper ventilation, so I'll likely not use the propane in the house.

For the Quality Espresso machines like the Futurmat Rimini, the same 220VAC element has two different ratings, with 1600 watts using just two of the four posts and 3600 watts using bridges to utilize all four posts with just two wires. Is that how the Astoria element is configured, or are there two separate elements for the different ratings?

[milowebailey]

Yes, each element is 1300 watts... so if you connect both then it's 2600 watts... or the 4000 watt element is actually 3 elements... really 3900 watts.

[grinderz]

So how long to get warmed up if you "only" have 2600 watts versus 3900? How many shots per hour do you give up?

[Tex]

So how long to get warmed up if you "only" have 2600 watts versus 3900? How many shots per hour do you give up?

It's not hard to figure that out.

Unless you're a total anal retentive, it wouldn't really affect the number of shots pulled per hour (you're taking 2 ounces of water out of a boiler with ~6 liters of capacity. Where it would have the most affect is with recovery time after steaming.

[milowebailey]

So how long to get warmed up if you "only" have 2600 watts versus 3900? How many shots per hour do you give up?

Great question... right now 0 shots per hour   What I might do is install the 115v element and see how the machine performs.  The wiring would be the same other than the plug, so it's not a big deal to change the element later to 230v.  The tricky part right now is I don't have a dedicated 20A 115v outlet near the machine so I'd have to wire one or re-wire the 220v 20A circuit I have there now.

I measured the resistance of the element and with 120 volt it would be 2322 watts (19.35 amps).  Maybe I should wire in a 30 amp circuit.....

[grinderz]

That would make it even harder to find a place to plug it in if you sold it or took it somewhere but it would work. You could reuse your in-wall 220 wiring if you changed the breaker to a single leg one and installed a 30 amp outlet in the wall. You'd need at least 10 gauge wire in the run, though.

[Tex]

Is your Cafethema going to be hot pink too?

[peter]

That's too frou-frou for even you Tex!

[grinderz]

Admins, could we get you to change Tex's tag line from ""My Mailman calls me Sir." to "Too frou-frou for you!"?

 

[milowebailey]

Is your Cafethema going to be hot pink too?

Of course, what other color would look that cool.

[mp]

Is your Cafethema going to be hot pink too?

Of course, what other color would look that cool.

Yeah ... and call it the Frouuu ... Frouuu!

 

[milowebailey]

Took the lever mechanisms apart today...   bad news one of the articulations was really worn.  As were two of the 4 pins... so another $165 worth of parts.

1 new articulation
2 more bearings (decided to replace all of them)
4 pins
new knobs for the steam and hot water valves
various washers, o-rings and rubber bumpers

Good news this will be like a new machine... not many parts will not be replaced....

[milowebailey]

I also rebuilt all three valves today.  getting the old fiber washers off was a chore, but they have all new seals now.

Project is sort of at a standstill until I get the rest of the parts.  Next week I'll post more.

[grinderz]

Do you know anyone who can weld up those oblongs for you and re-drill it?