Huky 500 profiles / Q&A / Tips and tricks.

[Joe]

not quite how I would put it but Aaron's point is a good one. In Beer brewing people get all crazy about certain things like no plastic buckets, or cleaning with brillo pads will cause scratches that let bacteria grow...When I learned to brew I had all these fears based on group think, marketing, and OCD theory that basically made my beer worse than when I finally heard from Skip Virgilio to use brillo pads, sanitize and use buckets...Beer was amazing using the "forbidden methods" Skip said it best - Home Brewers get worked up about a whole lot of stuff that has nothing to do with making good beer. Home roasters are the same, it's perpetuated by places like Home Barista that have a culture that really gets into the minutia of processes. I have found some awesome info through H-B but then you have to wade through all the "experts" who know everything about everything and are HB hero's to get to the one actual thing that helps you in any real way.

The "flick" and "Rao book say's", "here is my graph, what went wrong?" stuff makes me remember the Plastic buckets are evil stuff from home brewers.

[Ascholten]

I'm not even going to get into some of the brewing conditions on some of the Navy ship's I've been on.  Oh snap, I didn't just say that did I?
In case some of my old skippers are here; "Just Kidding Sir!".
Bubba's Bilge Wine anyone?

Oh and yah Joe, that totally hits the nail on the head.  If you don't do it MY way then you are doing it wrong!  They should rename the forum Home Brewing with the Borg.

Aaron

[hankua]

Brian, do you mean dropping before first crack or second crack? Dropping before the onset of first crack is possible I've heard, not had any luck the few times it was tried. Nothing wrong with manual roasting (no recording), if one has a routine established. Otherwise, it's good to chart the roasts on paper and play around with heat/air changes. Here's a Huky roast, first one in over 6 months using the 4-3-2-1 heat reductions strategy. With the dimmer, the first detent is @ 25% air; you can use your hand to figure out where 50% is. Over 50% air with the Huky risks sucking the beans up the pipe, still can be used if necessary. Low air slows the ROR, medium air increases ROR, and high air reduces ROR; this can be seen when using Artisan and some sort of air control. I would try using a low air setting for most of the roast until just before 1C, then increased air for the remainder.

[brianmch]

Aaron & Joe,

I've been down the OCD rabbit hole on a few things and know the detriments of doing so.  I have a little bit of it in my personality but believe that the Nth degree is unnecessary at this point.  I try to find out what works pretty well, what it takes to get it to get there, simplify it where possible, and continue to apply it.  It can sound like accepting mediocrity, but I don't get any pleasure from chasing the last 20%.  Diminishing returns and all that. 

Which is why I appreciate Hank's Huky suggestions which have sped the learning curve.  That roaster is much more powerful regarding heat and air compared to the Behmor so I need to learn how to use those tools and I choose to do so efficiently.  A solid recipe is a great starting point for me.  The graphs through Artisan or MSexcel CAN BE a path to OCD or they can be used with my God given sensory organs to appropriately shorten the learning curve. 

Hank:
I don't drop a roast before 1C starts.  I've been going a little long during 1C but its been okay overall. Nothing burnt or roasty. 

What are the milestones for the 4-3-2-1 heat reductions? Airflow has been "low". I've got 3 settings by ear.  I've been cranking it up towards the end of the roast as the heat tends to climb pretty quick and I want to slow that a little. 

I've been getting to yellowing pretty fast but stretching that and browning out.  I can't keep my heat up (say 2.5 to 3) as long as in your graph and have it stay green.  Temp changes have been roughly 20F every 1 min.  Roasts in the 9.30 to 11:30 range.  Next efforts will be to slow the change to yellow so I'll be going easier on the heat to start. 

Thanks all. 

[hankua]

OK, so we have the mixup about 1C cleared up; your dropping somewhere between 1C and 2C. I personally don't follow the Rao 20% as its kind of complicated, if one uses the other finishing parameters (total roast time, final BT, and roast development time after 1C).

The profile I was referring to (4,3,2,1) charges somewhere 160-180c looking for @ 80-90c turning point (@1:30) then 4kPa till EOD @150c. 160c-3kPa, 170c-2kPa, 180c-1kPa, etc. There are two other profiles talked about, GregR's espresso profile and another that's hot and fast (need to look that one up). The hot and fast profile uses a high ROR to compensate for a shorter total roast time. You can also use a fixed gas setting and make a final adjustment pre-1C around 180-190c.

A normal time to yellow or EOD is 5-6 minutes, 4-5 minute ramp, 1:30 to whatever finish. I think Greg might have a shorter EOD time and longer finish @ 2:30 RD. He also ramps up the heat pre-1C temporarily to increase momentum and cuts the gas at some point coasting to drop.

My opinion, the turning point temperature dictates how much heat it's going to take/time for the first leg to yellow/EOD. Having a consistant TP for the charge weight/profile used helps keeping on track with one's plan.

If you want to extend the time to yellow, try charging at a lower temperature. 160c is only 320f, but you would have to get the Huky lower (if your switching from funnel to pipe) then wait till the BT climbed to the correct temperature.

[brianmch]

OK, so we have the mixup about 1C cleared up; your dropping somewhere between 1C and 2C. I personally don't follow the Rao 20% as its kind of complicated, if one uses the other finishing parameters (total roast time, final BT, and roast development time after 1C).

The profile I was referring to (4,3,2,1) charges somewhere 160-180c looking for @ 80-90c turning point (@1:30) then 4kPa till EOD @150c. 160c-3kPa, 170c-2kPa, 180c-1kPa, etc. There are two other profiles talked about, GregR's espresso profile and another that's hot and fast (need to look that one up). The hot and fast profile uses a high ROR to compensate for a shorter total roast time. You can also use a fixed gas setting and make a final adjustment pre-1C around 180-190c.

A normal time to yellow or EOD is 5-6 minutes, 4-5 minute ramp, 1:30 to whatever finish. I think Greg might have a shorter EOD time and longer finish @ 2:30 RD. He also ramps up the heat pre-1C temporarily to increase momentum and cuts the gas at some point coasting to drop.

My opinion, the turning point temperature dictates how much heat it's going to take/time for the first leg to EOC. Having a consistant TP for the charge weight/profile used helps keeping on track with one's plan.

If you want to extend the time to yellow, try charging at a lower temperature. 160c is only 320f, but you would have to get the Huky lower (if your switching from funnel to pipe) then wait till the BT climbed to the correct temperature.

I think I have been charging too hot, around 400f. When doing that I noticed that my time to yellow was much faster than the time/color pics on a  Sweet Maria's visual guide. Will charge cooler and see how it goes.  Will also play with your temp timings and see how it goes.

Thanks Hank!

[hankua]

The "hot and fast" was recently mentioned over at HB by Mark (creative nickname) in reference to roasting Ethiopian coffee; also worth trying for a fruit bomb. On the Huky the air needs to be increased a bit past the low setting to raise the ROR for better heat transfer.

[brianmch]

The "hot and fast" was recently mentioned over at HB by Mark (creative nickname) in reference to roasting Ethiopian coffee; also worth trying for a fruit bomb. On the Huky the air needs to be increased a bit past the low setting to raise the ROR for better heat transfer.

I don't actually think I was trying to go hot and fast on purpose...I have been using a Behmor the last 2.5 years and I had to get it near max heat before charge in order to have a reasonably short roast time.  I was somehow under the impression that 400F was the recommended standard charge temp in the Huky.    Probably didn't pay attention to standard charge temps posted in the Artisan graphs. 

BUT, I do have some super fruity Ethio Yirg and will try it both ways to see what works best! Thanks for the link!

[brianmch]

the other finishing parameters (total roast time, final BT, and roast development time after 1C).

The profile I was referring to (4,3,2,1) charges somewhere 160-180c looking for @ 80-90c turning point (@1:30) then 4kPa till EOD @150c. 160c-3kPa, 170c-2kPa, 180c-1kPa, etc.

A normal time to yellow or EOD is 5-6 minutes, 4-5 minute ramp, 1:30 to whatever finish.

I did a couple roasts today using the above: one was a Guat Atitlan and the other a Rwanda Dukunda.  Total times were 13 and 12 min respectively with no 2C and roast levels of FC+ or so.  I've roasted about 20lb of the Guat through a Behmor and had a pretty good handle on it so I'm excited to try it from the Huky using a solid starter formula.  I roasted one batch of it by the seat of my pants.  Wasn't "bad" but was sorta "meh".

[brianmch]

HANKUA:

I tried a couple 400 gram roasts with the gas cut to minimum then cranking it up to 4 @ TP (appx 1:30).  Charge temp 180.

Gas was cut to 3/2/1 at 150/160/170.  Both seemed to go a looonnnggg time on 1 before 1C.  1C was appx 2 min and the roasts were a very pretty C++/FC. 

Total roast times were 14 and 15 min, respectively.  Are roasts to be that long?  The coffee is good but I'm wondering if it would be better if it were a little shorter.  I was talking to a roaster who was 9:30 for C++/FC (light and fruity) and 11:30 for FC+(sweeter and darker).

[hankua]

What was your EOD time, ramp to 1C time?  How was the air flow adjusted?

There shouldn't be any trouble hitting 1C at 9 minutes, my setup has the old extended J-pipe, variac controlling the fan, and a short exhaust pipe.

You can also try shifting the profile and holding the 4kPa longer, a little more air will also increase the ROR. The idea being to get the ROR maxed out and then taper it down.

[brianmch]

What was your EOD time, ramp to 1C time?  How was the air flow adjusted?

There shouldn't be any trouble hitting 1C at 9 minutes, my setup has the old extended J-pipe, variac controlling the fan, and a short exhaust pipe.

You can also try shifting the profile and holding the 4kPa longer, a little more air will also increase the ROR. The idea being to get the ROR maxed out and then taper it down.

If by EOD you mean time until beans begin to yellow it's 7 and 8 minutes, appx 150C, at which time I turn gas down from 4 to 3. 

Ramp to 1C? I don't know where you start measuring that but if its from end of yellow to 1C its 6 and 5 minutes (shorter on one because I stayed on the gas to 155C)

I didn't adjust the air flow or damper. I'm using a light dimmer and the fan speed is appx 40% of max by sound.

My ROR starts to slow at 11 min (183C) on roast 1 and 10 (185C) on roast 2.

My setup is an older one modified with a T that doesn't fit the drop tube super well and a longer L shaped pipe.  I've got the older styled tube as well but it fits really tight at the front and I have a hard time positioning my fan and ducting (shop vac tube to a window).

I have been dropping at 185C to 195C then cutting the gas until TP @ appx 1.30. The temp really falls (195 to 80.6 R1) and (183 to 83.2 R2).  I got on the gas sooner with roast 1 because it fell so far.  I'm hitting 150~155 in 7 min from start. 

I looked up the phiget interface and was to pull the trigger but don't know where to get a box for it or if it needs power. 

I'm also curious as to if it can connect to an Ipad with the USB dongle.

[antoine_t]

Hi

I have a j set up with perforated drum, and variac.

I have been following this guide for my roasts: https://www.hukyforum.com/index.php/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=25

I am roasting an ethiopian idido which is suppose to have strong blueberry notes. Have been having a lot of trouble getting these notes despite adequate rest (3-5days)

Can anyone comment as to what needs to be changed?

-charge was 350g
- I tried to speed up the MAI phase per previous suggestions

I think the TP is too low before I crank up the heat.

Anyway I turn it to 3.5kpa when BT hits 180f, fan at 30 (low) until 300F (where I mark DE).

Once I reach DE I progressively lower the temp by 0.5kpa or so, and raise fan to 40 (med) until first crack.

here is the graph:

https://imgur.com/a/PZPVy

suggestions? thanks!

[brianmch]

Here's my take.

I think that your first stage is too long as you're not running enough heat or too large charge for the heat. . Hit it at 5 or 6 kpa at 1 minute or sooner to shorten.

 Then start dropping heat more quickly to extend the drying phase as it's really short: this is a super important phase of flavor development so don't rush on a hard natural bean.

 Finally your 1c is pretty short at 16%: probably not enough heat cut soon enough in phase 2.  Are you getting lemoncello acidity or grassy notes?  These signify underdeveloped roasts.

Good luck and keep us posted.  Just a couple minor adjustments should get you there. 

[Joe]

For me....a longer drying phase before 300F soak the heat there if you can and then a fast push through 1st crack and after a normal ramp time up to 400f. I would stop it at about 435f-440f finish temp with an 8-9 min total roast time. Cooling time not included but a fast cool down of course.


Best chance for delicate fruit notes.