'83 Cremina, Rebuild 101

[BoldJava]

Here's an invite to learn together.

I have been thinking whether I should flip or if I should restore the '83 Cremina I snagged yesterday.  After conferring with Milo and Peter offline, I have decided to use this as a learning project.  There won't be a proportionate return on invested capital but rather an education as a return on the time spent.

Levers are straight forward, no electronics.  Though I got a C in metal shop and a C- in woodworking, I am prepared to tackle this.  I have an '82 Cremina that can set there and serve as a model if I get stuck.  You are welcome to learn along with me if you are a novice or if you are a mechanical engineer, I am going to lean on you.

Two rebuild kits at Orphan Espresso.  Ouch.
^  Group - $66
^  Entire - $130

Spent some time with the maintenance supervisor at work.  He suggests:
^  Taking my time
^  Taking photos as I go
^  Definitely going powder coating for better adhesion and long term endurance
^  Buying some C-clip pliers (I will need them anyways for my Cremina) -- look in the welding area
^  Not buying the kits out of the gate.

If the o-ring or gasket comes in contact with the water, need to ensure it is NSF for potable water systems.  If it comes in contact with heat, make sure the material can handle the heat.  Use Dow 111 - very thin coats.

He suggests not buying the kits.  We have a huge, huge plumbing supply house in town.  If they don't have it, he will scrum for the part.  If he doesn't have it, I am going to try McMaster Carr (often packets of 25/100).  I am going to:

^  Disassemble, documenting with pictures.
^  Buy an electronic caliper.
^  Rid the unit of the asbestos containing material (ACM).
^  Take the entire set of gaskets and o-rings to the hardware house and see how many they can source.
^  Seek out the gasket material. Maintenance supervisor (he is HVAC) said to pay attention to gaskets for material composition and heat issues.  OEM gaskets aren't needed.  If I obtain the right gasket material, he has punches that he can use -- just bring the group or boiler in.

Slow and steady.  Stay tuned.  My goal is to complete by November 3rd.

B|Java

[Tex]

The big warehouse stores aren't the best source for o-rings & threaded products. I find most of what I need at Ace Hardware and when I really get stuck I go to my local Fastenal store. McMaster is a good source if you need 10 - 25 of something?

Powder coating is a lot tougher than paint & it looks good, but it won't have the glassy/smooth finish of a professionally laid paint job. I  prefer PC on frames & internal pieces, but for exterior panels it's hard to beat a clear coated epoxy paint finish.

[peter]

Sounds like fun.  Could be a new start for B|Restorer in his retirement.  You start letting the beard grow, I'll start looking for a white Tyvek jumpsuit and a Dremel for the beard.

[mp]

My hat off to you B|BraveOne.

I know you don't feel very comfortable with taking apart the machine but sounds like you have been given some good advice on how to proceed and there is a lot of hardware talent on this board to guide you along.

I will follow your every step on the bleachers.

 

[grinderz]

Lever machines today, 1951 Indian motorcycles tomorrow...

[jfp]

I did a complete tear down and rebuilt of my 76 vintage 67 Cremina about a year ago.  It as fun and easy (and I have little mechanical aptitude).

A couple comments ...

I think you saw the OEM kits from OE.  The kits Doug has put together are about 1/2 the price.  They are perfect.  I'm not sure they always include the copper crush washer to connect (iirc) the pressurestat tube to the top boss.  Not all machines need it, mine did.  If you ask for it they will send it along.

I also replaced some stuff that might have been needed.  The boiler plate to boiler bolts (now stainless) and lever pins seemed to make sense to replace.

ACM removal was easy ... Soak and peel off underwater just like all suggest.  I can't see much risk to it.

My heating element was fine, but I did clean and reseal the connectors on the bottom of the plate.

My wife had a set of dental pick tools.  They were handy when removing the old gaskets and rings.  A flat one was handy as piston gasket chaser when reinserting the piston.

I mostly just followed Doug's videos, and went slowly.  No problems.  Machine fired up, a little tightening, and all's been well since then.

Getting tools is cool, but I'm not sure why you need a caliper.

[BoldJava]

...

I think you saw the OEM kits from OE.  The kits Doug has put together are about 1/2 the price.  .  .

Half the price of what?  I understand the need to get reimbursed for the time needed to order, stock, sort, and pack individual packets.  I would rather not pay $130 for 11 washers, o-rings, and  2 gaskets.  I will try and individually source them.  If needed, I can fall back on the kit.

My wife had a set of dental pick tools. 

Good tip.  I am in the middle of buying my dentist a third home in the Caribbean.  I will ask for his throwaways during my multiple "crowning" visits.

...but I'm not sure why you need a caliper.

Inner, outer, diameters; and width of rings -- hoping to self-source.

[grinderz]

0-rings are pretty much standardized. If you take the old ones to a NAPA they can usually match them.

[BoldJava]

Let's get this up here so I don't search repeatedly.  Diagrams, parts, parts list.

http://shop.olympia-express.ch/OMTD/Cremina67/Cremina67.htm

[jspain]

Dave,

Good luck on the rebuild!!!!!

You know me, I'm slow to try, but after puting a new board in my Behmor I guess I don't give myself enough credit. I'll follow along on your adventure and "down the road" I may be looking for that winter project in retirement!  jim

[jfp]

Half the price of what?
 

OE sells both OEM and "Doug's" seal/gasket kits.  Doug's are 1/2 the price of the OEM one (i think you found and quoted the price of the OEM one) here ...
http://www.orphanespresso.com/Cremina-Full-Rebuild-Gasket-and-Seal-Set-OE-UPGRADE_p_3031.html

Correction of my previous post, the copper crush washer (on my machine) is behind the steam valve.

Also, after stripping the boiler, I added Doug's insulation kit.  From before/after timing the impact of the insulation, I think it about halved the cycle frequency of the heater.

Have fun!

[BoldJava]

Half the price of what?
 

OE sells both OEM and "Doug's" seal/gasket kits.  Doug's are 1/2 the price of the OEM one (i think you found and quoted the price of the OEM one) here ...
http://www.orphanespresso.com/Cremina-Full-Rebuild-Gasket-and-Seal-Set-OE-UPGRADE_p_3031.html

...

OK, now I get it.  I didn't realize that Doug had a different area of the site (separate from Olympia OEM parts) with his assembled kits.  Thanks.  That hadn't sunk in.

[BoldJava]

...
OE sells both OEM and "Doug's" seal/gasket kits.  Doug's are 1/2 the price of the OEM one (i think you found and quoted the price of the OEM one) here
...

Brother (retired mech engineer) called last night and said, "forget the sourcing -- buy the kit -- save your sanity."  (He doesn't know it yet but I am going to ask him out when I score that 1-lb sample roaster and have him help set it up, vent the machine, etc).

Here is a comparison chart of o-rings, their manufacturer, relative pricing, heat tolerance, steam tolerance, etc.

http://www.marcorubber.com/material_chart.htm

[Warrior372]

You can buy the kit and save your sanity or bring the o-rings / gaskets to your local massive plumbing shop. The biggest problem you will run into is that they are all odd metric sizes that really are not used and therefore hard to find in the US. If you can source them yourself, and you are not in a hurry, you will likely only spend $30-$40 to replace them all. The materials you are looking for are Viton or Silicone. Larger commercial machines have a Virgin PTFE Teflon seal between the boiler and boiler cap. It is expensive, very hard, and pretty difficult to cut, but doable if you take your time and have the right tools. The Viton and Silicon will be cheaper, easier to work with and likely easier to find. I prefer Silicon where the material touches brew water knowing it is food safe.

Replace all of the screws, nuts, and bolts with the highest grade stainless you can find. They do not make all sizes in all grades. ACE Hardware is a good place to start, but will likely not have everything you need. Try to find a screw / nut / bolt specialty store around you. Usually they supply most of the stores around them, so they carry the most bizarre or the bizarre sizes in all available grades.

Taking a lot of pictures is key. If you ever get confused you always know that you have something to look at for reference. Do not assume that you will be able to find the same / similar pictures on the internet. Sometimes you can and other times you can not. Have fun!

[milowebailey]

Brother (retired mech engineer) called last night and said, "forget the sourcing -- buy the kit -- save your sanity."

It's clear who got the brains in the family    Your brother is a wise man.