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Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: mp on February 03, 2014, 08:46:19 PM

Title: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 03, 2014, 08:46:19 PM
I have a Starbucks Barista at work. It is teamed up with a Baratza grinder. It was descaled just before xmas. It does not get much use. It is used maybe 2 or 3 times a month. What is the problem ... glad you asked. I push the switch to pull a shot. I can hear the water pump starting. It goes on and on, but no water comes out of the portafilter. As I say I descaled it just before xmas and it was working great after that. The heat seems fine. It's just that the water does not seem to be coming out of the portafilter. Doing a search on the internet suggested that the water line may have formed an air pocket due to the lack of use and they suggested a turkey baster or suction bulb to get rid of the air bubble. That is the best thing that I could come up with so far.

I thought I would post this here as there is a lot of hardware talent lying around; I'm just not sure many have a Starbucks Barista, but I have faith someone will suggest something that I will give a go to that would potentially fix the problem.

Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: milowebailey on February 03, 2014, 09:36:31 PM
It sounds like scale to me.... I've never messed with a barista.... Might need a deep de-scale.
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 03, 2014, 09:46:11 PM
It sounds like scale to me.... I've never messed with a barista.... Might need a deep de-scale.

Hmm ... thanks Larry ... I will ponder over your suggestion.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: grinderz on February 03, 2014, 09:58:59 PM
Do you get plenty of water out of the shower head without the portafilter installed?  If so, your portafilter is probably stopped up inside. Most Barista's (which were rebranded Saeco's) came with a spring loaded plunger valve inside the portafilter that only opens up once sufficient pressure has built up. This was supposed to alleviate the need for the stupid consumer to have to tamp and adjust the grind.

If you want, you can take the portafilter apart and remove the pressure valve parts and just dose and tamp as with a regular portafilter.
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 04, 2014, 07:06:05 AM
Do you get plenty of water out of the shower head without the portafilter installed?

No, water is not reaching the portaflter.

I did have a problem before with the portafilter with the water not coming out. I disassembled it then re-assembled it. That seemed to fix that problem.

The pump is on, I hear it, but the water does not make it out.

 :(
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: milowebailey on February 04, 2014, 08:58:06 AM
Could be the pump.  On does not always mean good.


Disconnect the pump from the boiler and see if water is flowing.
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: grinderz on February 04, 2014, 09:38:35 AM
And water does not flow out of the steam wand?
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: RobertL on February 04, 2014, 10:17:56 AM
Have you checked to see if the water is going anywhere else? The drip tray or leaking inside the machine. I'm not familiar with this machine, does it have a pressure relief?
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: grinderz on February 04, 2014, 10:32:29 AM
I'm pretty sure these things did not have an pressure relief valve. I think the pressurized portafilter was supposed to handle that.
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: SJM on February 04, 2014, 10:34:20 AM
Here's the parts list for the Barista

http://espressocare.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=1158362623&CAT=1158972009&SUBCAT=1158974604&ADMIN=YES (http://espressocare.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=1158362623&CAT=1158972009&SUBCAT=1158974604&ADMIN=YES)

Have you been descaling it regularly?
I'd pull out the brew valve (42-45) and take a look at it.  It is probably similar to the Gaggias without 3-way solenoids, and tends to get clogged with scale.  A straightened paperclip can be your best friend.

Susan



Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: sea330 on February 04, 2014, 01:28:14 PM
Scaling problem, or pump is cavating, unable to build head pressure, sucking air some were maybe bad pump seal ,tear down  and isolate is in order.
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 04, 2014, 04:24:25 PM
Could be the pump.  On does not always mean good.


Disconnect the pump from the boiler and see if water is flowing.

Good point ... I was wondering about that myself. All I need to do is see if I can find a schematic of this machine so that I can figure out where to start.

Thank you for that.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 04, 2014, 04:25:12 PM
And water does not flow out of the steam wand?

Water does come out of the steam wand.

Hmm ... that would have to mean it is not the pump then. No?

Thanks for asking that.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 04, 2014, 04:29:43 PM
Have you checked to see if the water is going anywhere else? The drip tray or leaking inside the machine. I'm not familiar with this machine, does it have a pressure relief?

I can say nothing is wet on the exterior of the machine. I will have to look into how to take the cover off the machine in order to check what you've suggested.

I have no clue. I do know that it is a thermoblock unit.

Thank you for this.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 04, 2014, 04:33:29 PM
Here's the parts list for the Barista

[url]http://espressocare.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=1158362623&CAT=1158972009&SUBCAT=1158974604&ADMIN=YES[/url] ([url]http://espressocare.com/Qstore/Qstore.cgi?CMD=009&DEPT=1158362623&CAT=1158972009&SUBCAT=1158974604&ADMIN=YES[/url])

Have you been descaling it regularly?
I'd pull out the brew valve (42-45) and take a look at it.  It is probably similar to the Gaggias without 3-way solenoids, and tends to get clogged with scale.  A straightened paperclip can be your best friend.

Susan


Thank you for that diagram Susan. I appreciate it.

The former owner was regular descaling. I did it just before Christmas however the machine does not get much use, so not much water has run through it since then.

When I get some time I'll see if I can take it apart.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: SJM on February 04, 2014, 04:37:03 PM
the machine does not get much use, so not much water has run through it since then.

which is the worst scenario for the build-up of scale....
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 04, 2014, 04:38:57 PM
Scaling problem, or pump is cavating, unable to build head pressure, sucking air some were maybe bad pump seal ,tear down  and isolate is in order.

Yes. Makes sense. An inspection of the pump and a check for scale must be done. As far as I can figure it is scale, and air pocket, or as Larry suggests even though the pump is making noise, maybe it has no pumping power left.

Thank you for that Sea.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 04, 2014, 04:40:44 PM
which is the worst scenario for the build-up of scale....

Ok ... now you make a point for it being scale.

A discovery must be performed.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: milowebailey on February 05, 2014, 08:38:35 AM
the machine does not get much use, so not much water has run through it since then.

which is the worst scenario for the build-up of scale....


All the used gaggias I've bought where not used much....mast in the cabinet and then when they tried to use it..........


A simple cleaning cured all of them but one..... Susan now has the pump from that one.
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: SJM on February 05, 2014, 08:50:08 AM
Susan now has the pump from that one.

But she can't get it open to figure out what it's bleeping problem is....sigh....

Susan
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: shootersm on February 05, 2014, 08:57:59 AM
disassemble and clean the pump
my mokita did something similar and pump was the problem
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 05, 2014, 08:10:09 PM
disassemble and clean the pump
my mokita did something similar and pump was the problem

Hmmm ... disassemble the pump.

Will have to consider that.

Thank you for the suggestion.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 05, 2014, 08:16:58 PM
All the used gaggias I've bought where not used much....mast in the cabinet and then when they tried to use it..........
A simple cleaning cured all of them but one..... Susan now has the pump from that one.

That's interesting. One would think tht if you don't use the machine much there should not be too much scale built up. In reality it seems that it works in reverse.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: Smksignals on February 06, 2014, 11:30:44 AM
Just a lil chuckle here....

When I saw your title -

"Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem"

I thought you were having a problem with a "Barista" at your local Starbucks... LOL...
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 07, 2014, 08:50:05 PM
Just a lil chuckle here....

When I saw your title -

"Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem"

I thought you were having a problem with a "Barista" at your local Starbucks... LOL...

Good catch.

That is what happens when you are in a hurry to exlain your problem and you don't proof read.

 ;D
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: EricBNC on February 11, 2014, 08:54:53 AM
I have a version of this machine called the Saeco Rio Vapore - doesn't have the same pump (Cosmec 70 watt) and the portafilter came non-pressurized but the rest looks the same. I agree with the earlier suggestion to check the ball spring valve above the shower screen if water comes out of the steam wand
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on February 11, 2014, 07:09:01 PM
I have a version of this machine called the Saeco Rio Vapore - doesn't have the same pump (Cosmec 70 watt) and the portafilter came non-pressurized but the rest looks the same. I agree with the earlier suggestion to check the ball spring valve above the shower screen if water comes out of the steam wand

Thank you for that Eric; I will check that out.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: Gene on February 14, 2014, 10:07:05 PM
I'm new here but noticed your post. I have a Starbucks Barista that is 15 or 20 years old and I've used it daily at times and it has sat around for months at a time idle. I've only ever descaled it a few times. This last time it sat for a few months and I got it out and tore it down. Everything looked good except the shower head was all clogged up. I used a safety pin and reamed out all the holes, took about an hour. I did a good descaling and it works really good now.  My point is these are great machines. You may have clogged up your shower head even more than it was when you last descaled it. Then again it very well could be a faulty pump. I had taken out all the guts in that pressurized portafilter and have been tamping and tweaking out grind settings on my Hario hand powered grinder to surprising results. I'd like to know how you fare with this so please keep us posted. One thing about these machines is you will get a small drip of water from the head when it is ready to pull  shot and the portafilter is not yet inserted. So if you are not even getting that then maybe the pump is bad or that ball valve. Good luck.
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on July 01, 2014, 10:05:59 AM
I once again appreciate everyone's input here. I had the opportunity 3-4 weeks back to descale the Barista. It became apparent rather quickly that this was the problem. Almost as soon as the hot water and citric acid went into the machine all started working again. I was very surprised as it had not been many uses on the machine after the last descale but this does prove the point the less use on a machine the more scale builds up.

Well, the Barista is back to pumping and one of these days I may fire it up so we can enjoy some espresso. (Hopefully I won't have waited too long and it needs another descale  :o)

A big thank you to everyone who helped me out here.

 :)
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: SJM on July 01, 2014, 10:36:42 AM
Think about draining the boiler between uses if it's going to sit for a long time.
It might save you some headaches down the road.

Susan
Title: Re: Help needed trying to solve a Starbucks Barista problem
Post by: mp on July 02, 2014, 05:24:53 PM
Think about draining the boiler between uses if it's going to sit for a long time.
It might save you some headaches down the road.

Susan

Thank you Susan. I will keep that in mind.

 :)