Thinking of buying a Lever Machine

[Glaciercoffeeroasters]

Any thoughts on these?


Brands I see in a affordable price range (for my house...)

La Pavoni, Gaggia, GENSACO.

anyone have any experience with these?


I have had drinks from some shops out in WA, but nothing more than that.

they look and operate cool.


thanks in advance.

[Badgrinder]

I had a La Pavoni I purchased from Italy.  Had to replace the group head AND portafilter (done at Thomas Cara, Ltd., in SF), and worked okay after that.  Still quite temperamental, even after it was fixed, however--can only pull 2-3 shots in a row and temp goes out the window.

The Gaggia is essentially the same machine with a different hat.

Another you might consider is the Ponte Vecchio (I think that's the name).  http://www.pontevecchiosrl.it/ing/frame.html  I've seen the small ones going for $375 and the "large" for $675.  Vaneli's in Rocklin, California.  Here's their web address, but it's not working right now (not a good sign, though) http://www.vanelis.com

[Joe]

I've seen the La pavoni in action and I'm told the Gaggia is very similar. I've also seen an old Olympia cremina in action and I would have to say if I were thinking that direction, I would get an old Olympia Cremina. They are built like a tank.

Joe

[dan]

i had a europiccola for a couple months and got sick of it.  it's a small pf and i could never get more than an ounce, but usually less before blonding. 

plus i don't have the barista skills to get consistency out of it.  with a pump machine it's pretty easy to dial in the grind, but with the lever i just never knew if i should be adjusting my grind or how hard i was pulling.  and i'm a brute force kind of person in general so it wasn't for me. 

[DrJim]

Any thoughts on these?
Brands I see in a affordable price range (for my house...)
La Pavoni, Gaggia, GENSACO.
anyone have any experience with these?

There's a pretty active lever-machine forum over at www.home-barista.com - I'm a self-confessed lever freak, have owned most every home lever machine, and currently use a Conti 'Prestina' commercial single-group with a 58mm group.

The Pavoni, the new Gaggia, and the Olympia are all direct-acting lever machines - you lift up on the lever to fill the group with hot water, and press (vigorously) down on the lever to produce a shot. That's the short description - the long description is that there's a significant amount of skill involved and a steep learning curve before you can produce good coffee.

The Electra, the micro-Cimbali, the GENSACO, and the Ponte Vecchio are all spring-lever machines, you push down on the lever to fill the group with water and 'cock' a fairly hefty spring, then release the lever to allow the spring to make the shot. These machines are relatively easier to use, since the spring does most of the 'hard' work, but still require pretty advanced grind, distribution, and tamping skills to get good espresso.

The machine pictured as my avatar is a Ponte Veccio 'Lusso' sold by Vanelis Espresso in California http://www.vanelis.com/ it's a pretty decent machine, based on an original Italian design that has to date back at least 40 years - with a single 3-liter boiler and a 49mm group, it sells for roughly $700 with free shipping.

The biggest drawback to most home lever machines is that they were designed for the Italian home market, and are set to deliver 1.5-2 oz singles from their relatively small portafilters which typically hold 10-14gm of coffee as opposed to the 17-20gm I can stuff into the triple basket on the Conti.

The new Gaggia is not a Pavoni re-badge - it's a purpose-designed 58mm HX lever - my only issues are that it's hellishly spendy, and I wonder how much force is needed to pull through a 58mm basket if the Pavoni's 51mm can easily take 40 Lbs or more....

Cheers

Jim

[Hananonn]

Own an Astoria 2 grp. pro.
It sucks.
Major crema inferiority to any pump machine I have known. 

[slooowr6]

I've a Ponte Veccio Export, it has the same group head as the Lusso but has a smaller boiler (800cc). A single pull gets you about 0.5oz of espresso. I need 3 pulls to get ~1.5oz espresso. It's a nice lever machine to start with since it does not cost too much and is easier to manage than the full manual machine. The gread head of the PV is not as easy to service as the Elektra but do-able.

Alex

[cpl593h]

I am a former owner of a Europiccola old style (two-switch model) and an Olympia Cremina '68 (built in 1984).

I really can't recommend lever machines to anyone but the retired or unemployed. Reason being is that it's a big chore to bang out a couple of shots. Consistency is a big issue, mostly due to the overheating of the group; this is a HUGE problem with the Pavoni, and a significant problem with any lever machine but not so severe with the Cremina.

The group is attached directly to the boiler, so regardless of any temperature control measures, the group will always overheat on its own if it sits idle. Basically, the group can only act as a heat sink for a very limited window of time.

The only advantage that lever machines offer is a marginal improvement in clarity (which can be partially reclaimed on a pump machine by employing a declining pressure profile during the extraction). If you want to sacrifice consistency, tidyness, and convenience for ritualism, headaches, and slightly more clarity, then by all means invest in a lever machine.

[Gatewood]

I have a new Europiccola, the Millenium model. I think the overheating matter has been taken care of with this new edition. However, I only pull a couple of shots at a time, so I'm not positive that's the case. At any rate, I am delighted with mine, and although the learning curve was a bit steep, it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities for someone who is determined. You don't get a lot of coffee with one pull, but it's enough for me. You can get some really great shots with it.

[BoldJava]

Market may be played out on Creminas in the short-term. A clean, well-maintained '89 went for $660 this morning.  I got capped out at $650.  There is no telling what the other person might have gone to but this is about $400 below the price at which these have been circulating at in the last 3 months.


Interesting auction to watch.  Buyer had a reserve on it.  Number of bidders dips when there is a reserve. When an item is popular or crazed as is the Cremina, putting a reserve on it doesn't work.  Folks lose interest when their bid doesn't reach the threshold and guys don't save the item to monitor for future reference.  If he hadn't used a reserve, it would have gone for $1000+.


Reserve pricing makes sense for low item interest, but not on a Cremina.

B|Java

[Tex]

I have one of these and think it's an interesting machine.

http://albany.craigslist.org/hsh/2507932261.html

[milowebailey]

I just picked this up this morning....new in the box.  Some say it was a bad decision, but I say she's sexy.

My plan is to learn on this lever so when I get my commercial lever completed I'll know how to use one.

I plan to put a Silvia Steam Wand on the Achille and maybe PID it.

[Tex]

I think you made a smart decision, but I'd like to be there when Mrs milo lights into you.

I was looking at the San Fran roaster, but when I showed it to Mrs T I picked up negative vibes - like, "Hell no!"

[milowebailey]

I think you made a smart decision, but I'd like to be there when Mrs milo lights into you.
[/i]

I'm working on my entry plan.... could be good or could back-fire.  Luckily it's not raining so the dog house should be comfy tonight.... and tomorrow....

[John F]

Milo.. That is the machine I wanted before they stopped making it.

If I felt good about repairing machines or understood it I might still but I dont.

I bet you are gonna like it.