Green Coffee Buying Club
Vendor Discussion Boards => old Traveling road shows => Topic started by: yakster on October 15, 2012, 03:15:28 PM
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Same rules as past road shows:
* Need 10 people to participate -- Done!
* Each person gets the brewer for one week and then passes on to the next person
* One lucky person will get to keep the brewer via random drawing -- congratulations bekeld!
* Cost has not been announced yet, I will update this message and the thread with the final cost and availability (Late November?) of this brewer.
* Cost has finally been set from Espresso Supply at $39.99 plus shipping which will bring total cost up to almost $50. For budgetary purposes figure almost $5 each for this roadshow, but I'd like to verify commitments from folks who signed up a while ago before we officially launch this one.
* Let's call this an even $5 and I'll pick up some filters to go with the dripper. Please include your member name and the word roadshow somewhere in the Paypal title. I will take care of the Paypal fees, or you can select gift payment to save me the 45 cents. Send your payments to yakster at gmail dot com.
Discussion Thread (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=14848.msg235812)
I will post payment instructions for this by Monday.
I performed a random draw for the winner at the random.org site... and the winner is... bekeld, congratulations! Rgrosz78 begged to be let off the winner's list claiming that the cupboard is too full of coffee toys for one more. The adjusted order is shown below. I'll let everyone know when I receive this brewer and we'll get this party started!
1. Yakster
2. headchange4u
3. Soapbox
4. BozemanEric
5. fffolks
7. ecc
8. RobertL
9. rgrosz78
10. Bold|Java
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6. bekeld
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In, please. Thanks for doing this.
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Sign me up my friend.
Edit:
I see you already have :p
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Only time will tell.... and eventually I'll get my time with it.
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I'm in, please. I'm looking forward to giving this a try.
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I'm still interested. Any time just let me know.
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In. Be interesting to see how compares to Piao 1.
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Are we still thinking road show or should I just order one and report back?
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Minimal plastic? In please!
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Still in.
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Yeah. Still in.
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I'm in add me to the list please.
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Still in.
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In.
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Asking HeadChange if he is in is like asking Peter if he like HeadCheese.
B|Java
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Asking HeadChange if he is in is like asking Peter if he like HeadCheese.
B|Java
SNOUT!!!!
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I don't need a NEW way to make coffee, BUT I'm in. Add me to the list please.
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Payment sent
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Paid.
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Payment sent
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Payment sent
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How did it taste??
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Did I win?
B|Pronouncement
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Any good product has to be visited by The Ding Fairy early on. :)
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... I spoke to Bekeld about it and she was great about it and says it's fine so I'll just make my public Mea Culpa here so we can move on.
Here's a picture showing the damage.
It's a good thing I didn't win or I would fly out there and taken it out of your hide.
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The porcelain dripper is shipping out today to Headchange4u. It's been fun using this, I do prefer it to the CCD, but I'm having too much fun with my Kalita Waves and my Kone 3 to add this to my arsenal right now. It's a good no fuss, no muss way to brew great coffee.
What makes it preferable to the CCD? Would a Kone 3 work w/ the BPIB?
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The CCD cracks can be a problem, especially if they start dripping. Do you feel the heat-sink properties of ceramic vs. plastic is worth any consideration?
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Living at elevation I got rid of my CCD. I could not keep my water temperature in the plastic above 195°. Water boils for me at 203° and it would drop below 195° within one minute of the brew cycle. I tried preheating the CCD, like I do with my V60, but there was just not enough mass to hold any temperature. I am really excited about the Bonavita. I have high hopes that it might work for me.
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Headchange4u, looking for an update, have you had a chance to try out the BVID?
Yes, I've been putting it through the paces. I'll have a more detailed writeup soon, but overall I really like it.
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Since I love my V60 using this brewer just feels wrong. It was my intention to let my wife use it and possibly purchase on later; however, she has watched me so much that she also has developed a good pour technique and I'm not so sure I want her to become dependent on the ease of use thing.
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I am very much OK with the ease of use thing. :D I may never have to figure out how to do a drinkable pourover. ;)
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Anyone that is a fan of the Clever will absolutely love the Bonavita. It like the Clever's much classier cousin. I love the porcelain upper. I do wish that the entire unit was made of porcelain, but everything that touches the coffee id porcelain, so I can live with the plastic base.
I tried the Bonavita using the Kone v3, a nylon filter, and a Melitta #4 paper filter. The Kone produced IMHO an excessive number of fines, and there was quite a bit of sediment in the bottom of my cup. I probably could have adjusted my grind to reduce the number of fines, but I just moved on the to the paper filter. I had a similar problem with the nylon filter.
The Bonavita produced a most excellent cup. It was similar to a CCD, but I think that the BVID was better, probably due to the fact that the preheated porcelain cones had better heat retention through the 4 minute steep time.
Cons:
No major flaws that will keep me from buying one.
One weird quirk is that when initially releasing the valve to drain the coffee, it has a tendency to spray out sideways. The first time I made coffee in the unit, the cup was too large for the BVID. I was holding the brewer above the cup, and when I released the valve, it sprayed a little coffee onto my counter.
The plastic bottom has lots of nooks and crannies could be hard to clean.
A coworker made the observation that the very tip of the porcelain cone, the part that valve in the bottom seat against, looks to be unglazed and could pick up coffee stains. This part is hidden in the bottom so it;s not a big deal.
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...The Kone produced IMHO an excessive number of fines, and there was quite a bit of sediment in the bottom of my cup. I probably could have adjusted my grind to reduce the number of fines...
What are you grinding with and did you use a medium, pourover grind or finer?
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Grinding with my Mazzer Mini. Using the same grind setting I normally use with the Kone in a pour over setting. The BVID drains fast with the Kone. Maybe that force is pulling extra fines through.
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I just got a message from Soapbox that he dropped it in the mail today and it is on its way to MT.
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Is in Montana. Any suggestion on grind size other than what headchange4u had? I am not saying his are wrong, I just don't have a lot of time to experiment this week.
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After one morning of use, I don't like this thing. I do not like the position of the valve release below water line and see it as a design flaw. Let me explain. I was preheating the BV this morning. I reached over with one hand to release the valve. The valves stuck just enough that when it did release it jolted the BV and splashed boiling hot water all over my left hand. You could call this a rookie mistake, that I am sure will never happen again, but it might have jaded me enough to never be able to give a fair review to this thing. I always think devices that are used first thing in the morning should be engineered to be idiot proof. Apparently this one was not. Heed my warning, when using the BV, make sure you hold it firmly with both hands to release the valve. My hand hurts like hell.
I do think that the BV did makes a good cup of coffee though. It was on par with the Brazen and not quite as good as what I get from the V60/Kone or the Espro Press. I did have some trouble keeping my water temp above 195°. It dropped below that point about a minute into the brew cycle. Keep in mind at my elevation the highest I can start with is 203°
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I made a cup for lunch using the same bean and the grind I use for the Brazen with gold filter. I thought it was a little more balanced. I also did it without burning my hand. I like the cup it makes. For a quick 1 Cup, it works well.
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After making eight or ten cups I have come up with my preferred parameters. I made the first six differently but have settled on a grind and ratio I like.
Grind: Brazen, Gold Filter, Perciso around 17 (it is hard to tell with all the guidance labels for R on the Perciso)
Ratio: 23g to 12 oz
Water temp: 203°, full boil
Time: pull the plug at three minutes, it takes about another minute to drain for a total brew time of four minutes
Agitation: one stir at about 30-45 seconds
I am sure it will be a little different with different beans. I was using the Honduras, Catalina Rodriguez for all these. I really kind of like this thing when it does not scald me. It does make a good cup of coffee. I do not like it as much as my V60 but I do like the ease of use for a single cup. There might be one in our cupboard in the future. My only complaint is, I still cannot hold temperature above 195° throughout the brew. I think I need a constant pour, or more mass to do that. I think I will keep this one for my full week before sending it on.
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I like this thing. I like it better than the CCD but that just might be the porcelain as opposed to plastic. It made a real good cup of coffee with ease. There might be one in our cabinets in the future although I am not placing the order right now. We have too many unused coffee gadgets in there already. I do not see this replacing my V60 as my primary one cup Brewer. The things I really did like about it was that it was easy to clean and I could do something else while my coffee brewed instead of just pouring. It is now boxed up and by the backdoor and should be on its way to Alan tomorrow.
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The more I think about it, the biggest hurdle I have with this product is me. I just do not make many one cup batches of coffee. If I do it is usually when I come home for lunch. On those days I usually flip the espresso machine on and have a double before I leave. On the rare occasion that I do make a one cup serving the V60 has always served me very well.
It makes a great cup of coffee and is very forgiving. While some cups were better than others, I do not remember a truly bad cup from it. I think it would be a great product for a newbie's induction into single cup pour overs. If this is a legitimate pour over?
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I got the BVID today just as I was ready to brew a cup of coffee, so I quickly put it to use. I enjoyed the cup, but didn't notice any significant difference in taste between it and the CCD. I will do a side by side test tomorrow and try to get some slurry temps as well.
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Just a heads-up, since it looks like the BVID won't arrive anytime soon. It may end up stranded on my doorstep, since I will be on vacation from 05/21 through 06/05/2013.
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Like a lot of people here, I already own a Clever Coffee Dripper so it’s hard not to compare this Bonavita dripper to it because they are so similar.
I tried them side by side, using the same parameters:
Both drippers were pre-heated with 206F water
El Salvador Honey Bourbon at a drip grind – 25g
Water just off boil (water boils for me at 206F) – 400g
Steep for 3 minutes, drain for 1 minute for a total of 4 minutes in contact with water.
Both slurries maintained a temperature of 192F which surprised me. I was expecting the ceramic bowl to do better. I ran the test two more times and got the same result.
There was also no noticeable difference in the cup, I could not tell them apart.
I am not a heavy user of the CCD, maybe once or twice a month and even though I don’t think the BVID is a big improvement over the CCD, when my CCD dies I may still pay the extra just to get rid of some of the plastic in my life.
It will be moving along shortly to the next on the list.
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Thanks for making the temperature measurements. I'm also surprised that the results were so similar.
I guess the heat has no more reason to migrate through the plastic to the surrounding environment than it does to migrate through the porcelain.
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Thanks for making the temperature measurements. I'm also surprised that the results were so similar.
I guess the heat has no more reason to migrate through the plastic to the surrounding environment than it does to migrate through the porcelain.
Resisting the temptation to split a hair or two. :-X
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Resisting the temptation to split a hair or two. :-X
Green Coffee Buying Club
Splitting Bags Hairs, Having Fun
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Thanks for making the temperature measurements. I'm also surprised that the results were so similar.
I guess the heat has no more reason to migrate through the plastic to the surrounding environment than it does to migrate through the porcelain.
Resisting the temptation to split a hair or two. :-X
Please, split. I'd like to learn...
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Thanks for making the temperature measurements. I'm also surprised that the results were so similar.
I guess the heat has no more reason to migrate through the plastic to the surrounding environment than it does to migrate through the porcelain.
Resisting the temptation to split a hair or two. :-X
Please, split. I'd like to learn...
You will be sorry you asked! If we had several very accurate measuring points and sampled them frequently to build a picture of the temperature drop, it is likely that every dripper would have a unique temperature drop curve.
Every material has a fairly unique property specific heat capacity, which is the amount of Joules required to increase the temperature for a kilogram (engineering) or a mole (chemistry) of the material. Multiplied by the transmittable mass (mostly wall thickness, but the transmittable range increases with time and thermal conductivity) gives a nice idea of how much energy it takes to warm something up, which is how much the water temp would drop to get that energy. But we aren't doing this instantaneously, or in infinite time either, so a few other factors come into play.
Another involved intensive material property is thermal conductivity. Thermally conductive materials have a higher heat capacity (takes more energy to heat them up because of transmittable range) and also increases the effect of other factors, mostly emissivity and thermal bridging. These can setup a very big total heat capacity over time as heat is conducted from the source and radiated away into a large environment.
So the plastic is a great thermal insulator, and with the thin walls it doesn't take a lot of the heat to warm it up. With a lid the temperature drop should be a nice shallow slope.
The ceramic is a thermal insulator, but not as good as the plastic. It does have thicker walls, which certainly help the insulation value, but will still take more energy up front. A ceramic dripper pre-heated should compare OK with the plastic for short intervals of time.
A stainless steel version would have low heat capacity, but high thermal conductivity. Preheats don't do as much for the metal and plastic because their overall heat capacity is low, and the metal dripper will radiate it away quickly.
:P
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http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html)
Glass at about 1.0 (bigger number is more thermal conductivity)
Porcelain 1.5
Earth, Dry 1.5
Stainless Steel 16
Copper 400
Plastics,common 0.2 - 0.5
Styrofoam 0.033
Engine Oil 0.15
Beef, lean (78.9 % moisture) 0.43 - 0.48
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What about the thermal conductivity of dried beef? If I make a beef cup, it would be too slippery wet.
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What about the thermal conductivity of dried beef? If I make a beef cup, it would be too slippery wet.
How about best of multiple worlds.. beef-lined Styrofoam. I'd recommend transmission oil instead of engine oil, it tastes more like canola.
Mmmmm, Beefy.
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Gives new meaning to "earthy" hints--probably work well with Sumatran.
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Bonavita has arrived! I will give it a spin tomorrow.
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I took the the brewer through its paces a few times yesterday and today, and although I probably won't have the time this week to do much of a review, I did have a few thoughts on it.
I used it like a french press, a coarse grind and 4 minute steep with a quick stir halfway.
The Able Kone filters fit, although the v3 silicon ring keeps the lid from sitting all the way on.
I like the valve design, it will be much easier to keep clean than the clever system. Not much better on the aesthetic IMO, but it shouldn't crack like the clever drippers either so it should last until involved in kinetic mishap.
The immersion/paper combo is definitely one of the easiest to use (not to mention clean up) manual brewing methods. An interesting competitor to the clever, and a nice road show toy!
Thanks yakster!
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I received the Bonavita yesterday and used it this morning for a nice cup of Kauai Estate Reserve. The first thing that I noticed when rinsing the Bonavita is that it should be easier to keep clean than the CCD. The CCD has some hard to reach places where the coffee sits while steeping the Bonavita doesn't. Aside from that I didn't notice any big advantage over the CCD on my first use. I will use the Bonavita over the next several days and report back after that. I do like the porcelain it's nice!
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The BonaVita arrived yesterday, and I used it this afternoon. Definitely much easier to get the hang of than other coffee prep techniques I have tried (TechniVorm, French press, Hario pourover).
I used a very bright coffee (Yirgacheffe Wote Konga), since I expected the BVID to tone it down a bit. It produced a smooth and well rounded cup. It was very easy - even my wife could do this!
For a typical Hario V60 pourover, I use 13 grams coffee with 10 ounces of water (yes, I am a lightweight). For the BVID, I need to increase the amount of coffee - tomorrow I will try using 15 grams.
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The only review that really counts, in America at least.
I am not saying that others opinions do not matter but let’s face it this is America, the land of commerce. I ordered a brewer today. I wanted some Guatemala Acatenango Gesha from SM and somehow the Bonivita ended up in my cart. When I first got it on the roadshow I was not completely sold. It did nothing better that my V60, FP, or Brazen did. Over the past couple months since my time with the device my life has changed a little. R and I are no longer getting up at the same time so I do not feel the need to fire up the Brazen for one to two cups. My mornings have also been very hectic and I often leave the house without any coffee. I wanted to simplify my one-cup brewing in the morning. At first we looked at the Trifecta but where told by Bunn that it would brew at about 190 at our elevation.
Bottom line: the Bonivita Immersion Brewer will be in out cupboard in a week, so I guess that is a thumbs up.
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Today I used 15 grams Colombia Cauca with 10 ounces of water in the BVID. I was VERY happy with the result! I will get my wife's input over the weekend with a few other coffees.
UPDATE - she was impressed with how well the Yemen Mocha Sharasi using the BVID.
I definitely recommend this to anyone who normally consumes only 1-2 cups of coffee at a time.
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Sending the Bonavita to its final destination today - bekeld.
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OK. Back in Internet-land.
I really like the Bonavita. The Piao I is similar, but the flavors are softer in the Bonavita (probably because of the paper filter). Very full mouthfeel, not too much sediment--a keeper for me.
I believe that the reason I don't care for my drip coffee is that I really prefer the big body of immersion coffee. I did a lot of tent camping this summer, and my setup is a Kleen Kanteen with a fine metal filter. Stick ground coffee in, dump water, wait, pour out into cup. A Sowdon SoftBrew in stainless, essentially. The Piao I and Bonavita are just more elegant methods. Thank you all for breaking in the Bonavita!! :)
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When this product first arrived I was underwhelmed by the product. I have never been a big fan of the CCD. I had always preferred the V60 over the Bonavita. Over the past year my workload, especially in the morning, has gotten greater and greater. Believe it or not I have found that I cherish the three extra minutes that it takes to do a manual pour over. If I use the Bona Vita, I can use that three minutes to prepare my breakfast and be out the door that much sooner.
In short, the Bonavita has become my primary brew method Monday through Friday. I still like the flavor of the V60/Kone better, but the simplicity in the ease of Bonavita make it my go-to, workday brewer. I actually broke my original one a few months back. It was no fault of Bonavita, I knocked it off the counter on the hardwood floors. I ordered a new one the same day. I think this is a great brewer. I think it is especially good for people who are looking for ease-of-use or an introductory brewer for someone's first manual brewer.