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Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: milowebailey on July 29, 2011, 05:33:09 PM

Title: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on July 29, 2011, 05:33:09 PM
I'm such a noob when it comes to lever machines.

I just got a Gaggia Achille and man do I have a lot to learn.  It's manual both ways... I guess I was expecting to either push it up or pull it down and then a spring would do the rest.... Yikes is this hard.  I pulled 3 doubles this afternoon and all but one were sink-shots.  I know I need to dial this grinder in, but wow so many variable.

How do you know when you are pulling 9 bar?  How do you know when the grind is right or if it's really stalled?

I'd definitely need a tutorial.... I don't want to blow a seal  (Please no bad jokes about that :o )

Any help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on July 29, 2011, 05:45:00 PM
I'm such a noob when it comes to lever machines.

I just got a Gaggia Achille and man do I have a lot to learn.  It's manual both ways... I guess I was expecting to either push it up or pull it down and then a spring would do the rest.... Yikes is this hard.  I pulled 3 doubles this afternoon and all but one were sink-shots.  I know I need to dial this grinder in, but wow so many variable.

How do you know when you are pulling 9 bar?  How do you know when the grind is right or if it's really stalled?

I'd definitely need a tutorial.... I don't want to blow a seal  (Please no bad jokes about that :o )

Any help would be appreciated.

I never worried too much about pressure, just tried to keep it consistent. Someone once told me that it should feel like you're pushing a 40 lb box on a counter - hefty, but it's not going to bulk you up.

If you have a dynamic pressure kit for your Gaggia mods, you can get a more exact feel for 9 bar.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: juker on July 30, 2011, 10:16:57 AM
OK, speaking from a personal experience with Achille:
*Disclaimer: I’m in no way an expert on a lever or espresso in general. Steps described below is what worked the best for my personal taste. Apologies if some terminology is used incorrectly I’m trying to describe the process to the best of my abilities.

1.   Warm-up 30 min.
2.   Prepare your basket (grind, dose, distribute, tamp)
3.   Flush the group head (usually 2 full strokes until no flush boiling) into a bowl or use the flushed water to preheat your cups
4.   Load the PF
5.   Lift the lever all the way up, apply steady pressure and pull about half way down (until first drop in the cup). The resistance on the lever will build up (rump up?). This is a ‘pre-infusion’ phase.
6.   Lift again all the way up and apply steady pressure. The resistance of the lever will be present at the almost upper point
Now, I believe that steps 5 and 6 describe so-called ‘Fellini move’. The best shot you’ll get when in step 6 you ask yourself for 5 sec. (or even more)  “Have I choked it???” and then suddenly it gives in and you are chasing the lever to keep steady flow of dark-brown-red heavy-syrupy liquid. That technique will produce about 2 oz. Forget about timing – just watch the flow. Timing is irrelevant here.
Adjust you grind finer until you experience the phenomena of a best shot described above.
I hope it should get you started in the right direction.
Did I miss something? Oh! Pressure! (Force applied on the lever).  Hefty but never lean on it. Use your muscle not the body mass.
If I was starting over – I would follow Tex’s advice with dynamic pressure kit.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on July 30, 2011, 01:39:55 PM
OK, speaking from a personal experience with Achille:
*Disclaimer: I’m in no way an expert on a lever or espresso in general. Steps described below is what worked the best for my personal taste. Apologies if some terminology is used incorrectly I’m trying to describe the process to the best of my abilities.

1.   Warm-up 30 min.
2.   Prepare your basket (grind, dose, distribute, tamp)
3.   Flush the group head (usually 2 full strokes until no flush boiling) into a bowl or use the flushed water to preheat your cups
4.   Load the PF
5.   Lift the lever all the way up, apply steady pressure and pull about half way down (until first drop in the cup). The resistance on the lever will build up (rump up?). This is a ‘pre-infusion’ phase.
6.   Lift again all the way up and apply steady pressure. The resistance of the lever will be present at the almost upper point
Now, I believe that steps 5 and 6 describe so-called ‘Fellini move’. The best shot you’ll get when in step 6 you ask yourself for 5 sec. (or even more)  “Have I choked it???” and then suddenly it gives in and you are chasing the lever to keep steady flow of dark-brown-red heavy-syrupy liquid. That technique will produce about 2 oz. Forget about timing – just watch the flow. Timing is irrelevant here.
Adjust you grind finer until you experience the phenomena of a best shot described above.
I hope it should get you started in the right direction.
Did I miss something? Oh! Pressure! (Force applied on the lever).  Hefty but never lean on it. Use your muscle not the body mass.
If I was starting over – I would follow Tex’s advice with dynamic pressure kit.
Thanks, that helps. 

I do have a modified PF with a pressure gauge on it so I can judge what 9 bar feels like. 

I guess I'll take it home for a while (I'm using it up here at the cabin) and try it with my Santos grinder too.... much better grind with that.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on July 30, 2011, 04:14:43 PM

I do have a modified PF with a pressure gauge on it so I can judge what 9 bar feels like. 

Don't try it with a static gauge - you need to have a valve on it that'll simulate the flow of pulling a shot.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: newroaster on August 06, 2011, 02:33:36 PM
So Milob...it's been a few days now. What do you think? Is it worth the learning curve?
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on August 06, 2011, 02:45:22 PM
So Milob...it's been a few days now. What do you think? Is it worth the learning curve?

He's been uncharacteristically quiet of late. He must not have a computer connection in the dog house? ;D
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: mp on August 06, 2011, 03:26:37 PM
So Milob...it's been a few days now. What do you think? Is it worth the learning curve?

He's been uncharacteristically quiet of late. He must not have a computer connection in the dog house? ;D

I think he is busy trying to re-acquire his your old Sonofresco.

 :-X
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on August 06, 2011, 03:56:32 PM
So Milob...it's been a few days now. What do you think? Is it worth the learning curve?


He's been uncharacteristically quiet of late. He must not have a computer connection in the dog house? ;D


I think he is busy trying to re-acquire his your old Sonofresco.

 :-X


Ha Ha, good one Mike!
(http://vikitr.net/data/media/161/15_cat.jpg)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: mp on August 06, 2011, 09:19:50 PM
I must say Robert ... you are a great cat trainer.

I've never seen any trainer teach their cat to smile like that.

 :)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: juker on August 08, 2011, 07:57:17 AM
Milo
I forgot to mention vacuum release via steam wand prior the warm-up and false pressure release after heat indicator goes off first time, but sure you know about that… Achille’s boiler protests audibly against vacuum.
So, as you can see the steam valve gets some work-out, hence the need of a better knob you are about to receive.
How’s your progress with the lever?
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: newroaster on August 11, 2011, 02:26:05 PM
Sounds like something you'd do with the Space Shuttle. I think you've cured me of my La Pavoni longings.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: John F on August 12, 2011, 07:34:23 PM
Yikes is this hard.

It's a bit different eh?

I just pulled a pile of shots and the last one was finally looking good enough to taste. The first pull looked really good and I was excited but the second looked less good. It looked ok but the crema stopped flowing. But It didn't blonde on me so I went for it.

I was happy with it all things considered but I'm gonna agree with you on the first shots being hard to figure out what end is up on these levers.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Sherman on September 12, 2011, 08:38:14 AM
The Achille is NOT a typical lever machine, nor should you treat it as such. It's a lever-driven heat exchange espresso machine. Techniques that work for spring levers (e.g. Elektra MCaL) or direct piston levers (e.g. La Pavoni EP) will not immediately translate.

If you have experience with a HX, the cooling flush will make sense right off the bat. I think you'd be better served if you think of the Achille's lever as a replacement for a vibe pump.

I had hands on a friend's Achille for about 2 months, and couldn't come close to either my Cremina or Coffex, but that may be due to some leaks and needed maintenance. For me, the closest thing to success was going to extremes; grind fine and dose low (14g), or grind coarse and go high (17.5g). Any middling doses got washed out, regardless of temperature.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on September 22, 2011, 10:09:35 AM
Oh, the Achille... great machine.  long learning curve.  I'm finally pulling some great shots.

MVI 0828 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xky8inqY0c#ws)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: staylor on September 22, 2011, 11:19:04 AM
Oh, the Achille... great machine.  long learning curve.  I'm finally pulling some great shots.

MVI 0828 ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xky8inqY0c#ws[/url])


Nice vid!
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on September 22, 2011, 12:14:16 PM
Oh, the Achille... great machine.  long learning curve.  I'm finally pulling some great shots.

MVI 0828 ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xky8inqY0c#ws[/url])



Optical illusion or does the Achille really flex that much when you pull a shot? I need to fire up the LP Pro and see if it's that limber.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: staylor on September 22, 2011, 12:47:56 PM
Since you dropped a vid in here, figured I would shoot a quick one before heading off to the Farmers Market in a hour or so.

http://shaundoreenevankeegan.blogspot.com/2011/09/some-lever-action-with-panama-elida.html (http://shaundoreenevankeegan.blogspot.com/2011/09/some-lever-action-with-panama-elida.html)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on September 22, 2011, 01:53:29 PM
Oh, the Achille... great machine.  long learning curve.  I'm finally pulling some great shots.

MVI 0828 ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xky8inqY0c#ws[/url])



Optical illusion or does the Achille really flex that much when you pull a shot? I need to fire up the LP Pro and see if it's that limber.

It flexes, that's why I hold the portafilter handle.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on September 22, 2011, 02:02:43 PM
Oh, the Achille... great machine.  long learning curve.  I'm finally pulling some great shots.

MVI 0828 ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xky8inqY0c#ws[/url])



Optical illusion or does the Achille really flex that much when you pull a shot? I need to fire up the LP Pro and see if it's that limber.

It flexes, that's why I hold the portafilter handle.


It looked like you were exerted a lot of force to pull that shot. Maybe you should grind a tad coarser - pulling espresso isn't supposed to be anaerobic exercise. :o
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: mp on September 22, 2011, 03:58:16 PM
Oh, the Achille... great machine.  long learning curve.  I'm finally pulling some great shots.

MVI 0828 ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xky8inqY0c#ws[/url])



Optical illusion or does the Achille really flex that much when you pull a shot? I need to fire up the LP Pro and see if it's that limber.

It flexes, that's why I hold the portafilter handle.


It looked like you were exerted a lot of force to pull that shot. Maybe you should grind a tad coarser - pulling espresso isn't supposed to be anaerobic exercise. :o


Isn't that called an americano?

 ;D
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: BoldJava on September 22, 2011, 04:00:20 PM
Since you dropped a vid in here, figured I would shoot a quick one before heading off to the Farmers Market in a hour or so.

...

I pour much too slowly.  More rpm's, here we come.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on September 22, 2011, 04:30:05 PM
Oh, the Achille... great machine.  long learning curve.  I'm finally pulling some great shots.

MVI 0828 ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xky8inqY0c#ws[/url])



Optical illusion or does the Achille really flex that much when you pull a shot? I need to fire up the LP Pro and see if it's that limber.

It flexes, that's why I hold the portafilter handle.


It looked like you were exerted a lot of force to pull that shot. Maybe you should grind a tad coarser - pulling espresso isn't supposed to be anaerobic exercise. :o


Isn't that called an americano?

 ;D


Right Mike - Ha!

Hey, I was in San Antonio two weeks ago and stopped at a coffee shop in the barrio. Someone ordered an americhicano, and when I asked what that was I was told a double espresso, hot water, and a dash of unsweetened cinnamon. I learn something new every day!
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Sherman on September 28, 2011, 06:03:40 AM
[Optical illusion or does the Achille really flex that much when you pull a shot? I need to fire up the LP Pro and see if it's that limber.

Yes, it does flex that much. One of the reasons why I never warmed up to the Achille was it's perceived build quality. I took it apart and was stunned at how little bracing existed in the frame, as well as how much of the internals were made of plastic.

Milowebailey, glad to hear that it's working out for you. You're a more patient man than I am...
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: expy98 on February 22, 2012, 04:50:47 PM
you mean Pharoses :-).  Also, there's the redhead 3rd cousin from Milano for next time.
And Caravel looks naked w/out the lever...

Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on March 18, 2012, 10:48:09 AM
My La Pavoni only had a single shot basket and that just won't do for me.  I had a heck of a time finding a double basket for my La Pavoni, but Google paid off again.  After a long search I found them:

http://espressocare.com/ (http://espressocare.com/)

has them in stock.... and for a better price than espressoparts.com who has them on back order.  Orphan no longer carries them.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: ScareYourPassenger on March 18, 2012, 11:09:02 AM
Good to know. The one I borrowed is missing the double as well.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on March 20, 2012, 07:15:20 PM
I got the basket today.  Fast service and they didn't gouge me on shipping.... small flat rate box.  I'll be firing up the La Pavoni in the am.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on March 20, 2012, 08:51:33 PM
My La Pavoni only had a single shot basket and that just won't do for me.  I had a heck of a time finding a double basket for my La Pavoni, but Google paid off again.  After a long search I found them:

[url]http://espressocare.com/[/url] ([url]http://espressocare.com/[/url])

has them in stock.... and for a better price than espressoparts.com who has them on back order.  Orphan no longer carries them.


Sorry, I wasn't paying attention - I have a few of the 51mm baskets.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on March 21, 2012, 08:12:38 AM
My La Pavoni only had a single shot basket and that just won't do for me.  I had a heck of a time finding a double basket for my La Pavoni, but Google paid off again.  After a long search I found them:

[url]http://espressocare.com/[/url] ([url]http://espressocare.com/[/url])

has them in stock.... and for a better price than espressoparts.com who has them on back order.  Orphan no longer carries them.


Sorry, I wasn't paying attention - I have a few of the 51mm baskets.

ahhh, the old sonofresco syndrome.....  :) :)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on March 21, 2012, 09:13:29 AM
Bam.... La Pavoni 1.5 oz shot with a little steamed milk.... Sidamo Natural, Colombia Cauca, Canaan Natural blend. machiatto goodness. 

I'm not sure it could be much better due to prep, but I'm willing to take one for the team and try it again. 8)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on March 21, 2012, 09:56:56 AM
I've been getting great shots with the Gaggia Factory using 16 grams in the 51 mm double basket.  Just great.
shots this morning were 15 grams... I'll try 16.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on March 25, 2012, 08:45:28 AM
Lever land is pretty fun.

Yesterday I decided to bottomless both the Sama and La Pavoni portafilters and I had a brass tamper base that came with the La Pavoni and no handle so I turned on out of Padauk I had laying in the garage.  I couldn't find my turning finish so I just used some carnuba wax.  I wasn't totally happy with the handel or the finish but it's better than not having handle.  I may take another run at it down the road.

I've decided that bottomless is essential for a small lever.  The tamp is less forgiving than on a 58 mm portafilter.  First shot on each I had gushers, which clearly proved that my tamp wasn't right.  I played with it for a few shots and this morning the shot was spot on.  Milk was a bit over stretched, but still a great mini-latte.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: BoldJava on March 25, 2012, 08:58:22 AM
Lever land is pretty fun.

...

I've decided that bottomless is essential for a small lever.  The tamp is less forgiving than on a 58 mm portafilter.  .   .


Great set-up.

I find the Cremina extremely forgiving.  I have both the naked portafilter and standard PF -- both work fine; 49.4 mm baskets.  I have adjusted my tamp to a needle stir, thumping it with my Cafelat, x3.  Then I polish more than tamp.

(http://www.dibartoli.com.au/img/prod_img/cafelat-tamper-stand--closer.jpg)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on March 25, 2012, 09:12:06 AM

Great set-up.

I find the Cremina extremely forgiving.  I have both the naked portafilter and standard PF -- both work fine; 49.4 mm baskets.  I have adjusted my tamp to a needle stir, thumping it with my Cafelat, x3.  Then I polish more than tamp.


Thanks!

I have learned the La Pavoni is very forgiving in the shot because I control the pressure, but the Sama is a spring so tamp is way more important.

The Sama is a steam engine as Orphan Espresso says.  Easy to steam milk to microfoam and similar to a commercial machine.

The La Pavoni on the other hand is not so easy.  I'll need to work on it more to get the steaming down.

I plan to bring both of these to SCAA as well as plenty of towels for the gushers  ;D
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: BoldJava on March 25, 2012, 09:18:20 AM
...
I plan to bring both of these to SCAA as well as plenty of towels for the gushers  ;D

I look forward to it on many levels, not the least of which is to keep you humble <wink>.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: mp on March 26, 2012, 05:52:30 AM
I see you're taking a trip down the lever rabbit hole Larry.

 :)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on March 26, 2012, 07:02:07 AM
Looks like fun.

What kind of steam tip do you have on the La Pavoni.  Mine came with a drilled out acorn nut (Brooklynshot style) single hole tip that seems pretty easy to use.  I've heard that the stock tip can be harder.

I might have a spare tip on one of my pump toys that I could send you, or OE has a slim steam tip in stainless and brass that's a little classier.

I looked a bit closer at the tip last night.  It's a 3 hole tip and even though I soaked it well in citric acid it has one hole plugged.  I'll see if I can clean the tip better.  Maybe that's the problem... if not I'll order one from Orphan...
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on March 26, 2012, 12:58:21 PM
You may not want to try too hard to clean the plugged hole... I've heard of people breaking off toothpicks in their tips to plug up the extras so that they'll make a three hole into a single... YMMV.  Let us know the results either way.

Take comfort in the fact that I found steaming on the La Pavoni (even though I still need work on it) to be much easier than the Bellman stovetop steamer.  It is known to be a bit tricky, though, but I think the right tip (or plugged holes) helps.

What did you think of 16 grams on the La Pavoni?  What dose does the Export like?
I ordered 6 brass acorn nuts from the UK today.  I plan to make 3 tips with various hole sizes and a few with multiple holes to see if I can find a good tip design.  I read on Home barista where someone used a single 1/16" hole.   I might start with a slightly smaller one and work up from there.  I also plan try a 2 and 3 hole design or two.  Worse case I'm out $15 for the nuts.

I can't get 16 grams in the La Pavoni... it just won't work captain... 14 grams seems to be good for it.  As for the Export 16 grams seems to be the magic amount although 15 grams is ok too.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on March 26, 2012, 01:03:10 PM
A friend made a fan shaped tip, like this (http://www.espressoparts.com/EP_TX_FOAMKNIFE1), for my HX - I wonder if one would work on the LP?

I'm putting in an old-style Euro double switch on my Pro when I reassemble it, along with rewiring it so it has a separate steam circuit. That way I can add a PID, similar to what I do with SBDU machines, and get a higher steam temp - thus better steam pressure!
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on March 26, 2012, 01:49:55 PM
Milo, I wonder if we have different basket sizes... 16 grams seems to fit just great in my Millennium.  My baskets are shown in the second photo below, top row 45 mm La Peppina, next is an oddball 49 mm basket I bought for a project, then the 51 mm Millennium, finally the 53 mm Mypressi Twist setup.

Tex is on to something there... I've got the pressure dialed down for good temp management which means the steaming power takes a hit. 


hmm... I'll measure it when I get home today.

I have two heat settings on the La Pavoni, so I switch to high when I steam.  The Milk gets hot, but not enough movement of the milk.   I haven't set the pressure on the La Pavoni yet.... the gauge I ordered should arrive in the next couple days.  Curious what pressure you have on yours.  Orphan suggests 1 bar.

My shots are good with the La Pavoni, so I'm guessing the temperature is pretty good, clearly a PID would be better, but the shot doesn't lie.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on March 26, 2012, 02:00:57 PM
The pressurestat on my Pro keeps the brew temp rock solid, but it's a PITA to fine tune. The real advantage of the PID though, will be to let me set the steam temp high enough to get decent pressure for creating microfoam.

The fan shaped hole in the steam wand tip on my HX seems to make better microfoam with less attention to detail. It doesn't do much for a non frou-frou guy like me, but it may be useful for the more effeminate effete barista? ;D
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: expy98 on March 26, 2012, 02:27:52 PM
after a few months w/ the toothpick trick, it was in there pretty good and took some effort to
remove it w/out resorting to the drill bit...
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on March 26, 2012, 06:34:17 PM
My double basket for the la pavoni is 20mm deep.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on March 27, 2012, 07:33:31 AM
I think the pressurestat on my Millennium Gaggia Factory G106 (Pro) is set to 0.8 bar.  This makes it really easy to maintain stable temps, even with a bottomless portafilter cooled with water between shots.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: mp on March 27, 2012, 07:50:16 AM
The pressurestat on my Pro keeps the brew temp rock solid, but it's a PITA to fine tune. The real advantage of the PID though, will be to let me set the steam temp high enough to get decent pressure for creating microfoam.

The fan shaped hole in the steam wand tip on my HX seems to make better microfoam with less attention to detail. It doesn't do much for a non frou-frou guy like me, but it may be useful for the more effeminate effete barista? ;D

I must be going blind ... I could swear that I read that Robert is creating micro foam for frou frou!

 :o
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on March 27, 2012, 07:55:16 AM
The pressurestat on my Pro keeps the brew temp rock solid, but it's a PITA to fine tune. The real advantage of the PID though, will be to let me set the steam temp high enough to get decent pressure for creating microfoam.

The fan shaped hole in the steam wand tip on my HX seems to make better microfoam with less attention to detail. It doesn't do much for a non frou-frou guy like me, but it may be useful for the more effeminate effete barista? ;D

I must be going blind ... I could swear that I read that Robert is creating micro foam for frou frou!

 :o

Don't blame my posts for your personal problems Mikey - we all know what makes men go blind!

And just because I have a frou-frou capable machine doesn't mean I use it for that. My car s capable of 140 MPH according to the speedometer; do you think I drive that fast?
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: expy98 on March 27, 2012, 11:19:13 AM
And just because I have a frou-frou capable machine doesn't mean I use it for that. My car s capable of 140 MPH according to the speedometer; do you think I drive that fast?

you will run out of steam...
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on April 27, 2012, 03:11:47 PM
It's interesting how the steam wands differ so much on consumer levers.

Sama Export - hoards of steam almost steams too fast
La Pavoni - not enough steam with the stock tip, steams too slow.
Gaggia Achille - has a funky steam tip and it's almost foolproof.  I get such good microfoam with the Achille.

I wish I had it with me in Portland.  Here is the Turbo frothing wand on the Achille... the middle one.

(http://www.home-barista.com/gaggia-achille-buyers-guide_files/achille-wand-collage.jpg)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on May 18, 2012, 12:15:57 PM
I have to say, of the 3 levers I have I like the Achille the best.  I'm not sure why I seem to pull better shots with it... could it be I like the 58mm portafilter and the non-spring combo.... thoughts?  And it steams very very well.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: John F on May 18, 2012, 12:19:58 PM
I have to say, of the 3 levers I have I like the Achille the best.  I'm not sure why I seem to pull better shots with it... could it be I like the 58mm portafilter and the non-spring combo.... thoughts?  And it steams very very well.

Maybe you are just in tune with that 58mm vibe.

What kind of shot volume does it deliver?
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on May 18, 2012, 12:24:26 PM
I have to say, of the 3 levers I have I like the Achille the best.  I'm not sure why I seem to pull better shots with it... could it be I like the 58mm portafilter and the non-spring combo.... thoughts?  And it steams very very well.

Maybe you are just in tune with that 58mm vibe.

What kind of shot volume does it deliver?
21 grams, ~2 oz. in a 6 oz cup...  but you'd think 1 1/2 oz with 15 grams in the Sama would be just as good.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: John F on May 18, 2012, 12:32:28 PM
Yeah.. I think you are on the ~2oz shot thing.

I admit it's hard to let go of....not saying that it's anything that needs let go of you understand but 21g 2 oz shots are a specific arena.


Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on May 18, 2012, 12:44:33 PM
I have to say, of the 3 levers I have I like the Achille the best.  I'm not sure why I seem to pull better shots with it... could it be I like the 58mm portafilter and the non-spring combo.... thoughts?  And it steams very very well.

The steam preference might be explained by the Achille being the only HX - higher boiler temps. The 58mm portafilter could be the reason you pull better shots with it.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: John F on May 18, 2012, 12:59:29 PM
The 58mm portafilter could be the reason you pull better shots with it.

It's the reason for pulling 18g ~2oz shots.

Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on May 26, 2012, 07:31:32 AM
Mrs. Milowebailey has succumb to buying "latte" milk... ;). and she picked up some organic whole Jersey cow milk yesterday, a brand we don't normally get.  Wow, what a difference in steaming.  The milk looked perfect, but when I poured it was clearly a bit more stretched than the milk I normally use.  Taste-wise it is noticeably different too.

Shaun, I'm wondering if, depending on the milk, you pour the same or differently?  With the pitcher closer or farther from the cup?
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on May 26, 2012, 07:32:27 AM
I have to say, of the 3 levers I have I like the Achille the best.  I'm not sure why I seem to pull better shots with it... could it be I like the 58mm portafilter and the non-spring combo.... thoughts?  And it steams very very well.

My thoughts? 

You need to post a video of the Achille in action!


I was planning on doing that this weekend but forgot the camera at home this weekend.  Maybe I'll try with my cell phone.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on May 26, 2012, 09:08:07 AM
Nice pour Milo.  I'm a little jealous.

I was reading a thread on Home-Barista on Motta pitchers which veered into the technique of steaming in a smaller pitcher then transferring the milk to a larger pitcher for the pour.  Some advantage to the larger pitcher letting you tilt down more before the milk comes out.

Sounds like too much fiddling.

I was also thinking of wiping the steam wand with a thin coat of olive oil to make it easier to clean.  Thoughts?
I use a 14 oz pitcher to steam 3 - 4 oz of milk... no problem.  Or use the small pitcher and pour more slowly.

Olive oil... nope, it will change the taste of the milk.  Just wet your towel and the wand wipes clean easily.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on July 06, 2012, 08:58:55 AM
A few days ago I took the Achille apart to lube it and clean it good.  Interesting the pressure chamber is plastic.  I wonder if that is so it's more temperature stable.

Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on July 06, 2012, 09:23:52 AM
The newer LP's also have plastic sleeves in the chamber.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on December 13, 2012, 09:50:44 AM
Question for PV Lusso owners: Has anyone found a substitute for the cast spout portafilters that come with these? They're not ugly, but they're not as attractive as the PFs with threaded spouts.

(http://www.1st-line.net/mas_assets/full/1000-S9191.jpg)(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpXQO0tQ10nVqpe6aCbKfZMyxdkdaUnmEMHJqsImcStOy2S52fHA)(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkqw4NYBsRjbANa7Bd1y6fGGSEHpm5E70t916pqSqoTZepjy5YeA)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: John F on December 13, 2012, 09:59:52 AM
Two PVL posts....

Keep going, you are getting warmer....warmer... 
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on December 13, 2012, 11:05:02 AM
Tex,

The solution is to chop the portafilter and start taking pictures of the espresso porn you produce.

The PF that comes with it is already chopped; I'm looking for one that's not bottomless, but without the unsightly cast spouts. Jim at 1st Line doesn't believe there are any substitutes - we'll see.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on December 13, 2012, 12:25:02 PM
Question for PV Lusso owners: Has anyone found a substitute for the cast spout portafilters that come with these? They're not ugly, but they're not as attractive as the PFs with threaded spouts.

Yup..... bottomless... that is what you neeeeeeed for a lever

(http://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/8101_5669933706_6e19d64999_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on December 13, 2012, 12:29:48 PM
Question for PV Lusso owners: Has anyone found a substitute for the cast spout portafilters that come with these? They're not ugly, but they're not as attractive as the PFs with threaded spouts.

Yup..... bottomless... that is what you neeeeeeed for a lever

([url]http://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/8101_5669933706_6e19d64999_z.jpg[/url])


That's what it's got - was hoping for the moire traditional look.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: milowebailey on December 13, 2012, 12:37:02 PM
You could check with Orphan and see if the Riviera portafilter will fit the Ponte.  It too is a 45mm portafilter

(http://www.orphanespresso.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/aaaaaaaa/riviera45mmpair.jpg&maxx=300&maxy=0)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on January 02, 2013, 09:38:38 AM
PV Lusso lesson #1; always make sure the hot water valve is tightly closed before turning the machine on! I just walked into a huge puddle; the hot water valve must've been dripping for a few hours, long enough to overflow the small drip tray.

Having been spoiled by a plumbed in machine, I've got to relearn all the hard lessons, one by one it seems? I'll take the valve apart after the machine cools and see if the seals are shot or just need lubing.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on January 16, 2013, 03:02:44 PM
I'm beginning to understand the attraction to these; super simple, with practically nothing to clean, and they make a great cup of coffee. I had some folks over today; I pulled a few shots and got nothing but raves.

For groups the HX may be a better machine, but I'd have to really work with it to make a better shot.

2013-01-16: Ponte Vecchio Lusso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAyKistJqo8#ws)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: mp on January 28, 2013, 05:55:11 AM
So Robert ... did the lover affair end?

http://houston.craigslist.org/app/3564055809.html (http://houston.craigslist.org/app/3564055809.html)

 ???
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on January 28, 2013, 06:27:49 AM
So Robert ... did the lover affair end?

[url]http://houston.craigslist.org/app/3564055809.html[/url] ([url]http://houston.craigslist.org/app/3564055809.html[/url])

 ???


Maybe, maybe not?? It's a great machine, but the small filters and other very picky issues may keep it from being my daily go-to machine. Actually, the problem is I've gotten used to the power and control of commercial machines. Once you go pro most folks can never go back to prosumer.

But, it's a great machine and dead simple to use, so I may keep it?? Or not, but maybe - who knows?? Did that answer your question?
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: mp on January 28, 2013, 06:52:40 AM
So Robert ... did the lover affair end?

[url]http://houston.craigslist.org/app/3564055809.html[/url] ([url]http://houston.craigslist.org/app/3564055809.html[/url])

 ???


Maybe, maybe not?? It's a great machine, but the small filters and other very picky issues may keep it from being my daily go-to machine. Actually, the problem is I've gotten used to the power and control of commercial machines. Once you go pro most folks can never go back to prosumer.

But, it's a great machine and dead simple to use, so I may keep it?? Or not, but maybe - who knows?? Did that answer your question?


Absolutely not ... sounds like you're torn between two lovers.

 ;D
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: expy98 on January 28, 2013, 11:01:48 AM
... feeling like a ... 

 ;D
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: mp on January 28, 2013, 03:54:28 PM
... feeling like a ... 

 ;D

... and loving both of them is  ...

 ;D
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: expy98 on January 28, 2013, 06:53:24 PM
Tex is such a rules breaker...
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on February 01, 2013, 11:05:07 AM
I forgot to warn the niece about portafilter sneezes! She's only used mu Gaggia Classic & Bunn ES-1A, which have 3-way valves. Oh well, live and learn! She loves the slightly under extracted coffee and low volume steam output.

She'll be here 'til Monday, so she gets to play with it awhile. She's thinking about buying it, but like most bleepin' noobs, she's balking at the cost of a quality grinder.
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/fighting/beating-head-against-the-wall.gif)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: peter on February 01, 2013, 12:03:57 PM
She's thinking about buying it, but like most bleepin' noobs, she's balking at the cost of a quality grinder.
([url]http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/fighting/beating-head-against-the-wall.gif[/url])


She must be related to you by marriage.  If she had any Harmon genes in her, she'd have the right grinder before buying a machine.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: grinderz on February 01, 2013, 12:07:15 PM
Heck! She'd have 3 already and one on the way via FedEx.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: mp on February 01, 2013, 01:08:32 PM
Heck! She'd have 3 already and one on the way via FedEx.

Yeah ... and have the 3 already modified before the fourth one comes.

 :o
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on February 01, 2013, 01:13:16 PM
Nah, if she was a blood relative she'd have conned Larry out of one of his. ;D
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: John F on February 01, 2013, 01:15:27 PM
She loves the slightly under extracted coffee and low volume steam output.

The heart wants what the heart wants.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on March 09, 2013, 11:30:11 AM
Well, the PV Lusso will be off to a new home next week. Parting with it wasn't an easy decision; it does make a sweet cup of coffee. But its drawbacks outweighed its strengths, so it had to go.

I will be getting another lever machine at some point, but it will be a full-sized commercial machine, preferably a 1-group. Maybe I'll follow milo's example and latch onto a CMA, since it doesn't look like a Spanish Gaggia is going to pop up anytime soon.

For all of you with PV or Sama machines, my hat's off to you - they're great machines.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: SJM on March 09, 2013, 12:23:33 PM
For all of you with PV or Sama machines, my hat's off to you - they're great machines.

I can't quite get my mind around you not loving the Lusso enough to keep it, but then again it's not a SAMA, and maybe that makes all the difference.

Maybe you will like your next one better....

Susan
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: Tex on March 09, 2013, 12:33:43 PM
For all of you with PV or Sama machines, my hat's off to you - they're great machines.

I can't quite get my mind around you not loving the Lusso enough to keep it, but then again it's not a SAMA, and maybe that makes all the difference.

Maybe you will like your next one better....

Susan

It was small things; like not being able to lightly tap on the knockbox to empty a filter, or not having an anti-vacuum valve to relieve the false pressure, or the portafilter sneezes if you forgot to bleed off group pressure, or the fixed positions of the hot water & steam wands, ...

The coffee was great, but I've got other machines that make great coffee with fewer aggravating factors.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: SJM on March 09, 2013, 12:56:14 PM
The coffee was great, but I've got other machines that make great coffee with fewer aggravating factors.

Well, there you go;  makes sense to me.
The SAMA has the least aggravating issues of any machine I have owned to date. 
None, in fact.

 :-))))
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: BoldJava on September 16, 2013, 04:36:55 AM
Leverheads, with OE changing their business model, might be a good time to grab some spare parts. They haven't said how much inventory they will retain on a continuing basis:

http://www.orphanespresso.com/LEVER-MACHINE-GASKETS-SEALS-PARTS_c_195.html (http://www.orphanespresso.com/LEVER-MACHINE-GASKETS-SEALS-PARTS_c_195.html)
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: John F on September 16, 2013, 05:52:14 AM
Leverheads, with OE changing their business model, might be a good time to grab some spare parts. They haven't said how much inventory they will retain on a continuing basis:

[url]http://www.orphanespresso.com/LEVER-MACHINE-GASKETS-SEALS-PARTS_c_195.html[/url] ([url]http://www.orphanespresso.com/LEVER-MACHINE-GASKETS-SEALS-PARTS_c_195.html[/url])


Wow, mine are already gone...suddenly I feel panic.  :-[
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: BoldJava on September 16, 2013, 05:53:04 AM
...
Wow, mine are already gone...suddenly I feel panic.  :-[

Yeah, other folks are stocking up as well.
Title: Re: Lever Espresso Machine - tips, tricks and magical stuff
Post by: BoldJava on September 17, 2013, 02:40:26 AM
Leverheads, with OE changing their business model, might be a good time to grab some spare parts. They haven't said how much inventory they will retain on a continuing basis:

[url]http://www.orphanespresso.com/LEVER-MACHINE-GASKETS-SEALS-PARTS_c_195.html[/url] ([url]http://www.orphanespresso.com/LEVER-MACHINE-GASKETS-SEALS-PARTS_c_195.html[/url])


I grabbed two sets of gaskets and C clips.  Figure when it is ready, an afternoon of Steve or Curly's guidance and it will get done.  Put the parts with the Gene Cafe parts (chaff door sweeper bumpers, mother board, fuses - Variac?) so I have a go-to location when I can't find stuff now.