Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: headchange4u on April 04, 2014, 07:38:49 AM
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I just ordered new Ponte Vecchio Lusso 1 group from 1st Line Espresso. I had been looking at spending ~$800 for a used Cremina, but then I noticed that I could get a brand new Ponte Vecchio Lusso from 1st Line with free shipping for that price. The used Creminas have been going for big money lately, and I figured if I was spending that much money, it would be nice to have a new machine.
They just started shipping them again. I spoke with Diane via email and she is going to insure the package. They are packing the inside of the machine to help reduce damage to the machine. She said most of the time, if there was any shipping damage, it was to the case. I told her I can live with a ding or 2. I've got a buddy that removes dents for a living.
Now I need you PVL owners to make or point me toward some videos on using the machine. I'm going to start going through the Lever Machine thread (http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=12095.0)and start developing my lever mojo.
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I just ordered new Ponte Vecchio Lusso 1 group ...
You are going to be very pleased with the shot quality of your machine. Enjoy!
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Congrats on the new machine!
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Welcome to lever land!! It's a lovely place!
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You made a fantastic choice!
I started by using the Staylor method but over time developed my own (much different) system. Interestingly enough when we got the chance to test them we were making pretty similar shots via much different methods.
This really is an interactive machine..It's going to give you feedback once you start using it.
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I started by using the Staylor method but over time developed my own (much different) system. Interestingly enough when we got the chance to test them we were making pretty similar shots via much different methods.
Care to elaborate on either or both methods?
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There is a thread here somewhere...I will look.
In short I personally don't prefer going in for the second pull that many (if not most) people do. I get everything I can loaded into the shot and go for the most I can get "stacked" in there before letting go for my one pull.
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...
In short I personally don't prefer going in for the second pull that many (if not most) people do....
I have never understood a second pull.
Aren't you drawing air up through the puck and into the group diffuser, creating a vacuum effect that will muck up the diffuser/piston chamber?
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I just made a completely haphazard one handed vid/shot pull that is uploading now.
If I had any shame I'd delete it and not allow it to see the light of day but for PVL'ers I will do what I can so please excuse this sloppy shot, look past that, and see the intent I had in mind..
Posting in a few moments..
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A quick look for Headchange...: http://youtu.be/eq_z2BXgras (http://youtu.be/eq_z2BXgras)
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Going to watch. Thanks John.
Edit:
I know you were handicapped with one hand, but I find that extremely helpful. As many here know, I like to tinker, but I need at least a basic idea of what I need to do.
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I also found Shaun's video:
Ponte Vecchio Lusso 2 group lever action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsTyFeq8Kro#)
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Do try going in for a second pull.
You may prefer it and there is only one way to find out.
Also make sure you use both hands. ???
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It's kind of interesting watching how differently we approach the shot.
For me everything happens before I let go of the lever and in his vid It's mainly after the first full travel that the game is on.
Very different approaches.
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Jason,
CONGRATS!!!!!
John has given great advice. I will experiment more with the one pull method. I have used Shaun's method for the last two years and I see what John is saying because feel is every thing. I pre infuse for 5 seconds and go to a half pull then a full pull with"the feel" as guidance....
I'll stay tuned in too your adventure!!!! HAVE FUN!!! ;)
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Best advice ever... throw out all the rules and just play around with it.
I've changed my extraction routine a bit over the years, depending on updose or regular dose, and my mood, and The Espresso Force. Don't sweat the extraction time, the PVL is more forgiving than the generally accepted standards. Not to say you should always do big updoses with super long extractions in order to get the best tasting coffee, but pushing the envelope to see what happens is a good way to get a sense of things.
This video was a pretty big updose, and slow extraction, still tasted good:
Ponte Vecchio Lusso updose (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMxPT98Yblc#ws)
A classic example of playing around with the extraction style:
Ponte Vecchio Lusso 1 ounce lever pull (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKbgt74rbXU#)
One ounce result:
Ponte Vecchio Lusso 1oz Bodum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwOz7f-QrLA#)
And more completely amateur goofy pulls:
Ponte Vecchio Lusso 14.1gms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SI9bWGcow8#ws)
Getting tired of videos yet?
Ponte Vecchio Lusso 15gms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW7wQ7xwYiw#ws)
Milk:
Ponte Vecchio Lusso microfoam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoiquFjRwlo#)
Finally, a chopped PF:
.75oz espresso from the Ponte Vecchio Lusso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8_ZFt4UMJA#)
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Fancy two handed shots.... :P
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Thanks for the videos Shaun. Very nice.
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Just found this thread. Congrats on the PV. I think the lusso is a great choice, and everyone here has lots of great suggestions.
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So how much does boiler insulation matter?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYkT4-Kttag
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Are you gonna run it all day?
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I'll keep it at work for a while, so yeah it will be on most of the day. Once I get it home it will be turned on less frequently.
I also need someone to explain like I'm five. I know there are two types of lever espresso machines: full manual lever and spring loaded lever. I get how a manual machine works. But I'm a little fuzzy on exactly how the spring-loaded mechanism operates. Can someone help me out?
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On the spring...
If you didn't have it you could think of your arm as the pump on a pump driven machine. You would be applying the shot pressure by feel. Your consistency would take some practice....
With a spring there is a point where you let go and the spring delivers the consistency portion of your shots. You can manipulate this but for now it's best you don't fiddle too much before you get to know your PVL... They are active partners in your espresso, you'll see. ;)
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The Lusso has landed. Been pulling shots all day, and slowly overcoming the learning curve. Last couple of shots that came out of the machine were pretty good. I'm extremely caffeinated at the moment.
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Very nice!
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The Lusso has landed. Been pulling shots all day, and slowly overcoming the learning curve. Last couple of shots that came out of the machine were pretty good. I'm extremely caffeinated at the moment.
Photos or it didn't happen!
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Video would even be better!!!!!!!!! ;)
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I've been pulling shots for a couple of days now, and I think I got the hang of the basics. I'm found that a bit of a hybrid technique works best for me. I do a short preinfusion and the let the lever start to rise slowly, controlling it with my hand. I will let it come about half way up and then bring it down again for a second time. Seems to work well. I'm using 12-13 grams in the double basket, with a fairly firm tamp.
My only real complaint with the machine is that I'm not getting the volume in the shots that I got with the Gaggia. With the double basket, I get maybe a little over an ounce, whereas the Gaggia game me close to 2 ounces. Not a huge deal, but I would like to see more volume off of 2 pulls.
I did wonder:
How do I backflush/clean the machine? I didn't get a blank basket with the machine.
After I pull a shot, with the portafilter removed, I will pull down the lever to clean the group screen. When I do this I not only get water coming out of the group head but also some steam. Is this normal? I would this that actual steam would produce bitter espresso. My first few shots were very bitter.
I had other question, but they will have to wait until I can remember them.
Here's a little eye candy. I had my cousin turn me out a tamper on his lathe. I had originally wanted stainless, but he was out of that stock so me made me one from Teflon. I really like it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/07F74A2E-AB14-4F49-9ADC-69F89AAFE5D0.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/headchange4u/media/07F74A2E-AB14-4F49-9ADC-69F89AAFE5D0.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/B489DF59-7C30-4099-8373-0807AFA0575F.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/headchange4u/media/B489DF59-7C30-4099-8373-0807AFA0575F.jpg.html)
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Backflush? It's a lever....no 3 way valve to worry about. Just pull the handle with no coffee in it after each shot, it will stay prety clean. Pull the shower screen off once in a while and soak it in citric acid.
Leverland is like paradise in the espresso machine world ....
(http://eofdreams.com/data_images/dreams/paradise/paradise-01.jpg)(http://www.dwalls.com/92067-1/Twilight+Paradise_+La+Digue_+Seychelles.jpg)
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...
My only real complaint with the machine is that I'm not getting the volume in the shots that I got with the Gaggia. With the double basket, I get maybe a little over an ounce, whereas the Gaggia game me close to 2 ounces. Not a huge deal, but I would like to see more volume off of 2 pulls.
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In 3 weeks, you will be past that as an issue. Remember that you are using a much smaller mass to extract from.
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+1 on the above.
I was very reluctant to move away from the 2oz pump driven shot. I initially needed the second pull for shot volume reasons.
These things become less important as you discover other things.
You are on a journey.
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Just out of curiosity, what is the pressure setting that you PVL owners prefer? Mine is at a little over 1.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/B0E75578-9433-4E4E-A6CC-A4707FCDAB76.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/headchange4u/media/B0E75578-9433-4E4E-A6CC-A4707FCDAB76.jpg.html)
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Pretty much where I have mine, but that doesn't mean we are both at the same pressure as the gauges might be reporting differently. Just try and get it setup so you have enough boiler pressure to create good milk and that will put you in the right ballpark for shot temps.
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Pretty much where I have mine, but that doesn't mean we are both at the same pressure as the gauges might be reporting differently. Just try and get it setup so you have enough boiler pressure to create good milk and that will put you in the right ballpark for shot temps.
I'm getting fantastic steaming capabilities, but I question the setting because when I drop the lever to clean the group head screen, I get steam shooting out as well as water dribbles. My hot water dispensing wand on the right also has a lot of pressure coming out, basically forcefully spewing hot water and steam at the same time. This may be normal; I just don't know.
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Love the tamper! Anything that's "one of a kind" rocks my world. [emoji12]
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... Anything that's "one of a kind" rocks my world. [emoji12]
Even Yakster?
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You called this one:
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I vote leave your pressure alone unless/until you have an instinctive reason to change it AND an expected outcome of what changing it will do.
And forget what anybody else is set at. This machine isn't like others. Its got a say of its own....
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Pretty much where I have mine, but that doesn't mean we are both at the same pressure as the gauges might be reporting differently. Just try and get it setup so you have enough boiler pressure to create good milk and that will put you in the right ballpark for shot temps.
I'm getting fantastic steaming capabilities, but I question the setting because when I drop the lever to clean the group head screen, I get steam shooting out as well as water dribbles. My hot water dispensing wand on the right also has a lot of pressure coming out, basically forcefully spewing hot water and steam at the same time. This may be normal; I just don't know.
Only way to find out what you like is to do an A/B comparison with the current setting and a decreased pressure setting. I drilled a small hole in the side of my case for that very reason.
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Jason,
My pressure is just the same as your's and my results are great. Your description of the pressure during the cleaning process is also similar to mine. However, I've never tried to adjust mine for comparison and always have stayed with the factory set.....
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Only way to find out what you like is to do an A/B comparison with the current setting and a decreased pressure setting. I drilled a small hole in the side of my case for that very reason.
Why the hole?
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Only way to find out what you like is to do an A/B comparison with the current setting and a decreased pressure setting. I drilled a small hole in the side of my case for that very reason.
Why the hole?
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Because the way my interior is setup, the pressurestat is accessible for adjustments through that hole by using a skinny screwdriver.
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I see. Mine is right on top, clearly visible when you remove the warming tray.
I think I'm getting better and better at steaming milk. I'm sure you've heard about coffee strong enough to hold up a spoon, but how about milk strong enough to hold up a stir stick? I made my latte this morning, put in a dab of sugar, and then turned around to talk to a co worker. Turned back to see this:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/B749BCEA-708D-484C-96CC-1657F9C5ADAD.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/headchange4u/media/B749BCEA-708D-484C-96CC-1657F9C5ADAD.jpg.html)
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Microfoam, good enough to replace Graphene. ;-)
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Now for the art work!!!!!!!
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That cup is a milk mustache maker for sure - looks tasty!
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I am slowly getting up the nerve / $$$ to replace my PID'd Gaggia Classic with the PVL.
Any more espresso experiences to report? Never had any "lever espresso" in the USA, and only one drinkable espresso at a coffee shop in the USA. I really do NOT get out much ::)
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I suggest you get the PVL and THEN decide.
The value of your Classic isn't going to change much in the time you spend deciding which one you prefer.
Susan
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I moved from a highly modded Gaggia to a PVL.
There was certainly an adjustment period as they are very different tours of shots but I'd never trade back.
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I moved from a highly modded Gaggia to a PVL.
There was certainly an adjustment period as they are very different tours of shots but I'd never trade back.
I had both the SAMA and the Classic for a period of time. I worked really hard to get the best I could get out of the Classic and it produced an excellent shot and wonderful microfoam after I tuned the OPV, added the PID, upgraded the steam wand and bought the K-10.
The SAMA can do all that without any fuss or bother at all, and even did it before the K-10.....:-)))
(Which is why the Classic is now, finally, up for sale.)
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I'm in love with the PVL. It's taken this long to get proficient (in my mind) with the machine. It stayed at work for about 2 weeks, and now sits on my counter at home. One coworker was so distraught that I took the machine home that he ended up purchasing his own PVL. It's a great machine and I don't think you will regret the switch.
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Years ago, (like most Gaggia owners) I needed to upgrade but I didn't want a spring lever...so I got a Cremina (no spring). I am a now permanent resident of Leverland.
Go get a lever and stop thinking about it, you'll never look back!
:)
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I re-read various PVL discussions / reviews at H-B:
http://www.home-barista.com/ponte-vecchio-lusso-review.html (http://www.home-barista.com/ponte-vecchio-lusso-review.html)
http://www.home-barista.com/levers/initial-impressions-of-ponte-vecchio-lusso-t3591.html (http://www.home-barista.com/levers/initial-impressions-of-ponte-vecchio-lusso-t3591.html)
I'm going to pull the trigger next month.
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One or two groups?
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One or two groups?
I'm going for the one group - rarely have anyone over who likes espresso.
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I re-read various PVL discussions / reviews at H-B ...
I'm going to pull the trigger next month.
Machine arrived yesterday, still waiting to be unpacked. Hope to set it up and start learning how to use it next week - have not roasted any coffee for a month!
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Congrats!
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You self control people blow my mind.
I unpacked mine within 11 seconds and had roasted AND pre ordered some Redbird timed to be aged upon machine arrival.
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Grats!
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Have fun with the new toy!! Welcome to lever land!
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You self control people blow my mind.
I unpacked mine within 11 seconds and had roasted AND pre ordered some Redbird timed to be aged upon machine arrival.
It isn't self control - just lack of spare time. Just set up a new desktop and laptop for my wife in the last week.
Based on my non-roasting, we would be totally OUT of coffee. Luckily I ordered a few pounds from The Excellent Cup!!!
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Call me curious. I am in the market for a new espresso machine for the home. I have never had nor used a lever machine, but I am intrigued. I've owned a couple Appias. A couple Vivaldis and a Vibiemme. I am the only coffee drinker in the house and almost always drink straight espresso, as opposed to milk drink. The occasional cappa, but not that often. Guidance welcome.
Shep
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This would be a perfect fit
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... I have never had nor used a lever machine, but I am intrigued. I've owned a couple Appias. . .
Shep
If I didn't have my Cremina, I would jump on a PVL in a second. Milo had one at the SCAA Portland event (we had 6 machines in his room). I loved the shot from his machine.
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I thought I had my technique down pretty good, but I turned my portafilter into a naked model this past week and found that I need some work. I was getting a bit of spray from the basket. Tweaked the grind and tamp until I got the flow right,which, of course, helped improve the overall quality of the shot.
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I unpacked mine within 11 seconds and had roasted AND pre ordered some Redbird timed to be aged upon machine arrival.
Finally unpacked my PVL and set it up. I discovered that the lever handle is about 1/2 inch too tall - it just barely blocks the kitchen cabinets. I need to unscrew the lever handle when I'm not using it :-[
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Can you cut it down, or have a custom handle made?
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Just out of curiosity, what is the pressure setting that you PVL owners prefer? Mine is at a little over 1.
Looks like my pressure may be WAY too low. I waited 40 minutes, and it never got above 0.5
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Can you cut it down, or have a custom handle made?
Interesting idea. But I'm pretty sure Mrs G will like it better without any handle ::)
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Rick,
Make sure you bleed the boiler by letting steam off the steam wand. If it's gone 40 minutes it probably won't make a big difference. It is normal for the pressure to register low so go ahead after releasing steam and pull a shot. Pressure may be fine.... My pressure registers on the lower side.... Have fun with the new toy!
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I can also mail you the pressure gauge that goes on the steam wand if you want a second opinion.
Susan
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Every time you turn the machine on it will get to a certain point where you need to open the steam wand for a few seconds, this will let the boiler achieve its setpoint.
At this point you will also want to pull a small amount of water through the grouphead in order to start the grouphead circulation (which will eventually get the grouphead up to temp).
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Interesting with the SAMA you only have to do that if you have opened up the boiler to add water. You don't have to "release the false pressure" on the subsequent pulls. Or so I have always thought, and practice...
Susan
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Every time you turn the machine on it will get to a certain point where you need to open the steam wand for a few seconds, this will let the boiler achieve its setpoint.
At this point you will also want to pull a small amount of water through the grouphead in order to start the grouphead circulation (which will eventually get the grouphead up to temp).
This is what I have learned from the InterNets, and also is mentioned in the skimpy PVL "owner's manual".
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Interesting with the SAMA you only have to do that if you have opened up the boiler to add water. You don't have to "release the false pressure" on the subsequent pulls. Or so I have always thought, and practice...
Susan
I try to put in just enough water that I use most of it during an espresso session, and then I drain off the excess when I'm shutting the system down. That way I'm always using fresh water for every session, which means my boiler cap is off and on for every session.
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Interesting with the SAMA you only have to do that if you have opened up the boiler to add water. You don't have to "release the false pressure" on the subsequent pulls. Or so I have always thought, and practice...
Susan
I try to put in just enough water that I use most of it during an espresso session, and then I drain off the excess when I'm shutting the system down. That way I'm always using fresh water for every session, which means my boiler cap is off and on for every session.
Well that makes sense and explains the difference.
I only fill the boiler once ever three days or so.
Susan
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I normally remove the boiler cap and place it in my front pocket. Then I pick up the machine with both hands and tilt it on its back with a 9% pitch with the water inlet bias. At this point I gingerly dip the machine into a stream flowing that meets my requirements as I determine using the Gauckler Manning formula. It's also important at this point to ensure you don't have sunlight at an unfortunate angle. If you do this at the wrong time of day your movement of the machine can easily be mistaken for a distress signal due to the chrome reflection. Therefore early am or late afternoon are the best times to fill.
Then I put the machine back into my pack, get down to the trailhead, drive home, and pull some shots.
But that being said you really should bleed off false pressure and pull a blank shot on warm up like Staylor said. 8)
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I normally remove the boiler cap and place it in my front pocket. Then I pick up the machine with both hands and tilt it on its back with a 9% pitch with the water inlet bias. At this point I gingerly dip the machine into a stream flowing that meets my requirements as I determine using the Gauckler Manning formula. It's also important at this point to ensure you don't have sunlight at an unfortunate angle. If you do this at the wrong time of day your movement of the machine can easily be mistaken for a distress signal due to the chrome reflection. Therefore early am or late afternoon are the best times to fill.
Then I put the machine back into my pack, get down to the trailhead, drive home, and pull some shots.
But that being said you really should bleed off false pressure and pull a blank shot on warm up like Staylor said. 8)
Listen to them.
They have Lussos.
I have a SAMA.
Different machine; different strokes.
Susan
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I normally remove the boiler cap and place it in my front pocket. Then I pick up the machine with both hands and tilt it on its back with a 9% pitch with the water inlet bias. At this point I gingerly dip the machine into a stream flowing that meets my requirements as I determine using the Gauckler Manning formula. It's also important at this point to ensure you don't have sunlight at an unfortunate angle. If you do this at the wrong time of day your movement of the machine can easily be mistaken for a distress signal due to the chrome reflection. Therefore early am or late afternoon are the best times to fill.
Then I put the machine back into my pack, get down to the trailhead, drive home, and pull some shots.
But that being said you really should bleed off false pressure and pull a blank shot on warm up like Staylor said. 8)
Outstanding, I've been thinking of using the Gauckler Manning formula, instead I am using the Darcy-Weisbach equation.
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Outstanding, I've been thinking of using the Gauckler Manning formula, instead I am using the Darcy-Weisbach equation.
Positively scandalous!!
I say, nobody can accuse you of shying from adventure. I'm both intrigued and slightly pensive by your choice here. It's certainly something to think over...
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Outstanding, I've been thinking of using the Gauckler Manning formula, instead I am using the Darcy-Weisbach equation.
Positively scandalous!!
I say, nobody can accuse you of shying from adventure. I'm both intrigued and slightly pensive by your choice here. It's certainly something to think over...
If it doesn't work out, I think I will combine the formula and the equation. Twice as good?
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A compounding effect....very nice!
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Can you cut it down, or have a custom handle made?
My wife did suggest getting a custom handle ... maybe a birthday present ::)
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Can you cut it down, or have a custom handle made?
My wife did suggest getting a custom handle ... maybe a birthday present ::)
There are a few members with a lathe and the skill to use it. Maybe a thread asking about this would get you one via GCBC.
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Peter, there is no rush. Based on the last few days, it will take me two months before I can pull a decent espresso ???
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sounds like a titan grinder is in your future :-)
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Found another discussion thread for PVL owners. Love those Aussies - check out the title of the thread:
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-pointy-end-1500-3000/28916-ponte-vecchio-lusso-club-spring-lever-espresso-machine.html (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-pointy-end-1500-3000/28916-ponte-vecchio-lusso-club-spring-lever-espresso-machine.html)
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The tale of two Lussos.
Some of you might find this interesting.
I ordered my PVL around the 1st of April. If you remember, I kept the machine at work for about 3 weeks before finally moving to my counter at home. Several of my coworkers had become quite fond of the machine and one of them actually ended up buying one for himself. His machine was purchased around May 21st.
His PVL arrived and I started helping my coworker unpack and set up the machine. It was during this time that I first started to notice subtle differences between his machine and mine. The most obvious differences were different steam and hot water knobs as well as a different boiler cap. My coworker took his machine home for a few days, and when he returned it to work he said that there was a slight hitch in the lever while brewing coffee. I tested it and sure enough, on the first pull of the day, there was was indeed a slight hiccup when the lever was rising.
I ended up popping off the dispersion screen on the group head and checking things out inside. Everything looked okay. The was used machine on and off throughout that day without issue. I went to pull a shot later that afternoon. I loaded my normal 15 grams that I do at home, and when I went to pull the shot the lever lurched upward and the water flow all but stopped. I pulled the lever down to fill the boiler and water started running through the puck like I was brewing coffee, and when I let the lever start to rise I again had the lurch and the water all but stopped. Come to find out that if you loaded much more the 14 grams in the double basket, the piston seals would fail, and the machine would not brew properly. At home I have used 15-16 grams without issue.
I know the grind may have something to do with the issue. I have choked my machine at home to the point where the lever wouldn't rise, but I've never had my machine act the way that my friends machine does. Basically, if you load much more than 14 grams in the double basket, when the lever starts to rise, the seals will fail and allow water to rush back into the boiler.
But the saga continues. I came in yesterday morning and turned on his machine. I returned 45 minutes later only to find that the pressure gauge was reading 0. The machine had not heated up, even though the power light was on. I knew there was a reset switch that you have to hit if the water gets too low, so I hit the reset button, even though the machine had a half tank of water. Still nothing. I ended up taking the case of the machine and testing the heating elements, which checked out fine. I inspected the other components but nothing looked amiss. After putting the machine back together and refilling it, I flipped the power switch and after about 15 minutes, the machine came up to temperature and the proper pressure. I was perplexed.
The machine is functioning fine this morning, but I am still wary of it's longevity. My machine hasn't had the slightest hiccup since it came into my possession. There are obvious cosmetic differences between my machine and his, but I would have assumed that the internals would have been the same. After taking the case off of his machine yesterday I can say that his internal steam and hot water valves are slightly different from my machine (these valves have to be removed to remove the case). It makes me wonder is the other components differ.
I have spoken with 1st Line on the phone, and the gentleman I spoke with agreed that the seals were failing and told me he would send out a set of new seals. It's getting close to 2 weeks since we spoke and I have not seen the seals. I have contacted them twice via their website and gotten no response.
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The tale of two Lussos.
Some of you might find this interesting.
...
I have spoken with 1st Line on the phone, and the gentleman I spoke with agreed that the seals were failing and told me he would send out a set of new seals. It's getting close to 2 weeks since we spoke and I have not seen the seals. I have contacted them twice via their website and gotten no response.
Yes - very interesting, and a bit alarming!
I noticed some discussion on the Aussie forum back in 2012 about the need to replace seals annually. I had not seen mention of this elsewhere:
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-pointy-end-1500-3000/28916-ponte-vecchio-lusso-club-spring-lever-espresso-machine-7.html#post476369 (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-pointy-end-1500-3000/28916-ponte-vecchio-lusso-club-spring-lever-espresso-machine-7.html#post476369)
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Jason,
A few thoughts that may or may not be of interest?
The situations that you describe may only be grind, tamp, and pressure issues.... Everything except the zero pressure issue I have seen with my machine as I change greens, grind, and tamp..... Especially on the first pull of the morning. I will drink the first pull but the second and others are always better. Patti gets the first one.....! ;)
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Just out of curiosity, what is the pressure setting that you PVL owners prefer? Mine is at a little over 1.
Looks like my pressure may be WAY too low. I waited 40 minutes, and it never got above 0.5
With the top removed, I'm barely able to see two screws on the back of the pressurestat. I assume that is what I need to adjust - but which one?
I can barely touch them with a screwdriver. Probably need to remove the "shell" of the PVL. Can anyone give me some hints of how to do that?
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Jason,
A few thoughts that may or may not be of interest?
The situations that you describe may only be grind, tamp, and pressure issues.... Everything except the zero pressure issue I have seen with my machine as I change greens, grind, and tamp..... Especially on the first pull of the morning. I will drink the first pull but the second and others are always better. Patti gets the first one.....! ;)
I'm quite sure that those are factors. The guy I spoke to at 1st line said the same thing, but my machine at home does not have the same issues. If I grind to fine or tamp to hard the lever either won't rise or moves up very slowly. My coworkers machine is much more fickle; if you don't get the grind or tamp just right, the levers jumps up and you can hear water rushing back through the group head and you lose the pressure on the coffee. I assumed that mine was working correctly, but I could be mistaken.
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Looks like my pressure may be WAY too low. I waited 40 minutes, and it never got above 0.5
With the top removed, I'm barely able to see two screws on the back of the pressurestat. I assume that is what I need to adjust - but which one?
I can barely touch them with a screwdriver. Probably need to remove the "shell" of the PVL. Can anyone give me some hints of how to do that?
To remove the case, look at the bottom and you will see 2 large nuts and 2 smaller bolts. Remove the smaller bolts and the case will come off.
The small screws aren't your adjustment. The adjustment screw is recessed in the end of the stat that points toward the case. There's no clearance to adjust without taking off the case or drilling a hole like staylor suggested.
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I'm quite sure that those are factors. The guy I spoke to at 1st line said the same thing, but my machine at home does not have the same issues. If I grind to fine or tamp to hard the lever either won't rise or moves up very slowly. My coworkers machine is much more fickle; if you don't get the grind or tamp just right, the levers jumps up and you can hear water rushing back through the group head and you lose the pressure on the coffee. I assumed that mine was working correctly, but I could be mistaken.
Jason, mine seems to operate like yours. This is based on the few espressos I tried (decided the water was not hot enough).
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction re: adjusting the pressurestat.
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You'll also need a 20mm box wrench to remove the steam and hot water valves. You can't remove the case without taking those off.
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fwiw, I have an Export and when the lever jumps like that it's the piston seals needing a lube job, at least
that's the case with the Export. Removing the piston on the PV is not super fun...
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You'll also need a 20mm box wrench to remove the steam and hot water valves. You can't remove the case without taking those off.
Yes, I noticed that. I can see where to remove the hot water valve, but the steam valve is covered up.
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So, after 3 phone calls and 2 emails to 1st line, I finally got them to send out a set of seals for my coworker's PVL. I switched them out today, and it was pretty obvious that the old seals were the root of my problem. The top seal, or the one closest to the lever, was torn. Upon closer inspection it looked like it may have been damaged during installation. As you can see in the second pic, there was a mark/cut on the inside of the seal that led me to think this.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/IMG_20140626_161759.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/headchange4u/media/IMG_20140626_161759.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/68c298c7-e54d-46d7-af8e-904ec3c8a69f.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/headchange4u/media/68c298c7-e54d-46d7-af8e-904ec3c8a69f.jpg.html)
The edges of the middle seal were also chewed up.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/IMG_20140626_161450.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/headchange4u/media/IMG_20140626_161450.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/IMG_20140626_161542.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/headchange4u/media/IMG_20140626_161542.jpg.html)
After the installation of the new seal everything was working as it should. The lever operation was slick as snot on a door knob, and the machine pulled a great shot with no indication of lurching or slipping.
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You'll also need a 20mm box wrench to remove the steam and hot water valves. You can't remove the case without taking those off.
There are some fairly detailed instructions (including pictures) on this page:
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-pointy-end-1500-3000/28916-ponte-vecchio-lusso-club-spring-lever-espresso-machine-3.html (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-pointy-end-1500-3000/28916-ponte-vecchio-lusso-club-spring-lever-espresso-machine-3.html)
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Where/from whom have you PVL owners bought yours?
And did you get a one- or two-group?
Susan
yup.....checking out the piggy bank again....
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I got the one group PVL from 1st Line:
https://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3837 (https://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3837)
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The saga continues ...
Co worker's espresso machine worked great yesterday. Turned it on this morning and again it would not heat up. Light came on but nothing happened. Sending it back to 1st line for repair :(
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The saga continues ...
Co worker's espresso machine worked great yesterday. Turned it on this morning and again it would not heat up. Light came on but nothing happened. Sending it back to 1st line for repair :(
Jason, I'm very sorry to hear that :o
Still haven't adjusted my pressurestat yet ... maybe Sunday. In the interim, I'm appreciating the virtues of my Gaggia Classic.
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I got the one group PVL from 1st Line:
https://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3837 (https://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3837)
As do most people, I assume.
I have been under impressed with 1st line.
I think I will call Joe at The Good Coffee Company in Seattle.
Susan
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I just had a nice chat with Joe (The Good Coffee Company, Seattle)
He says that he has stopped ordering the Ponte Vecchios because the quality has been so bad that he has had to entirely rebuild them before selling them. That put paid to my fantasies of buying one.
He also mentioned that the only way to go when buying a Lusso is the one-group because the addition of the second group exponentially increases the problems with the builds.
I think I will send my SAMA to him for an overhaul instead of buying a new one..
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I seem to remember hearing Doug at Orphan Espresso making similar remarks. I've heard some places will sell them but refuse to ship them because of the high odds it will be damaged in shipment.
I don't think the issues Joe was speaking of had anything to do with shipping damage. They had to do with the build quality. He said he basically had to rebuild all of the ones he received before he could sell them with any integrity.
Looking at my SAMA I see nothing which suggests it should be difficult to pack for shipping. In fact I have received two and shipped one before with no complaintsI think that is a line of you-know-what....
Susan
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Not great news. Mine is functioning fine (knock on wood), but it still makes me wary. There are definite difference is between my machine the one I've been working on. I wonder if there's any way to identify a "the good ones"? I also wonder what kind failures Joe sees as most common.
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Sorry, Jason, I did not delve into all that with Joe. He is amazingly easy to talk to and you can find him here
Address: 818 Post Ave, Seattle, WA 98104
Phone:(206) 622-5602
When I called, Joe answered the phone. I know he will be "off" all next week, so....
When Joe isn't there his son usually answers the phone, but he usually defers to Joe on machine issues.
Joe has been importing these espresso machines for at least 40 years ago, starting when they were made by Saba, then by Damba, then by LaBassa, and now by ????
Susan
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It's kinda sad to be honest.
I've also seen a problem PVL. It was exhibiting very unusual pressure issues. This particular machine had just been re worked by OE. :-\
I TOTALLY love my PVL but if more and more stories of bad ones come up I guess it just makes those of us with good ones that much luckier.
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I TOTALLY love my PVL but if more and more stories of bad ones come up I guess it just makes those of us with good ones that much luckier.
I was right on the verge of getting one to love my very own self, but I am not confident enough at this stage in the game.
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Looks like my pressure may be WAY too low. I waited 40 minutes, and it never got above 0.5
With the top removed, I'm barely able to see two screws on the back of the pressurestat. I assume that is what I need to adjust - but which one?
I can barely touch them with a screwdriver. Probably need to remove the "shell" of the PVL. Can anyone give me some hints of how to do that?
To remove the case, look at the bottom and you will see 2 large nuts and 2 smaller bolts. Remove the smaller bolts and the case will come off.
The small screws aren't your adjustment. The adjustment screw is recessed in the end of the stat that points toward the case. There's no clearance to adjust without taking off the case or drilling a hole like staylor suggested.
I finally removed the cover from my PVL, so I could adjust the pressurestat. I must be blind. The only screws I see on my pressurestat are on the back. It looks like it might be enclosed in something??
Here is a link to eight close-up photos:
http://www.softwarepolish.com/personal/pstat/album/index.html (http://www.softwarepolish.com/personal/pstat/album/index.html)
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That looks like the pressure gauge connections. Look on the opposite side where the steam wand is located. My pressure stat is right above the reset switch which has a little red button on it. It should have a recessed screw in the end.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Look on page 5 and you will see location.
http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/PonteVecchiocloserlookv3.pdf
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Look on page 5 and you will see location.
[url]http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/PonteVecchiocloserlookv3.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/PonteVecchiocloserlookv3.pdf[/url])
Well, DUH - you can tell I'm not a hardware guy. Thanks for that, Jason!!
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Ok. This is weird. I went to fix me a latte, and shortly after turning the machine on, literally within seconds, it started making a clunking noise and vibrating. It had a half a tank of water at the time. I emptied the boiler, and looked inside but I did not see anything wrong. After refilling the machine and turning it on again the noise and vibration went away. Has anyone ever had this happen?
Ponte Vecchio Lusso Strange Noise: http://youtu.be/CflxpVmTs-o
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That is pretty weird - freaking me out ??? :o ::)
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I finally took my PVL apart, and adjusted the pressurestat by two full turns clockwise. Flipped on the power, waited 20 minutes, and now it reads at about .1 bar.
Then I adjusted the pressurestat by two full turns clockwise AGAIN, and it still reads at about .1 bar. Looks like the pressure gauge is bad >:(
I tried three different espresso blends on the PVL today, and they all tasted "off" (compared to prior results on my Gaggia). My guess is that the temp is still too low, since they were all on the sour / acidic side.
I am hesitant to make more adjustments to the pressurestat. I'm still waiting for a response from 1st Line.
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I am hesitant to make more adjustments to the pressurestat. I'm still waiting for a response from 1st Line.
I got a response on Saturday, and they said they would ship a new pressure gauge.
I have been using the PVL to steam milk for our afternoon lattes. I noticed that it seems very hard to control - like there is too much steam pressure.
After finishing my latte, I decided to tinker a bit. I removed the pressure gauge and then put it back in place. Lo and behold, now it seems to be working - and showing a pressure of 2.0 bar!
I did not need to adjust the pressurestat in the first place. After backing out my prior adjustments, now back to 1.1 bar. Tomorrow I'll go back to experimenting with espresso on the PVL.
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Ok. This is weird. I went to fix me a latte, and shortly after turning the machine on, literally within seconds, it started making a clunking noise and vibrating. It had a half a tank of water at the time. I emptied the boiler, and looked inside but I did not see anything wrong. After refilling the machine and turning it on again the noise and vibration went away. Has anyone ever had this happen?
Ponte Vecchio Lusso Strange Noise: [url]http://youtu.be/CflxpVmTs-o[/url] ([url]http://youtu.be/CflxpVmTs-o[/url])
Jason,
It's never happened to me..... I'd only be speculating as to the cause. Larry might have an idea??
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Very strange, does it have an autofill solenoid or power relay? Maybe the pressurestat?
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Not sure on the relay, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have an autofill solenoid. It sounded like the heating element clanging against the boiler, although I don't see how that's possible.
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I think your Lussos should go back to 1st Line.
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Today I did a heads-up comparison between the PVL and Gaggia Classic. This time the spring on the PVL acted properly, and gave a nice shot. The shot on the Classic was similar, but still slightly preferred over the PVL.
Now I just need to do this EVERY day for a month or two.
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I've switched over to using the PVL exclusively. Most days I have two espressos (or one espresso and latte). I've been generally pleased, and still fine tuning my technique. So far the most coffee I've used is 14 grams for the double basket.
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I don't think you should be finding PVL and Gaggia shots very similar.
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I'll have to chalk that up to my lack of experience with espresso. The Gaggia has been my only source for drinkable espresso for the last two years (after I installed the PID).
I still don't have the vocabulary / palate to be very descriptive about what I'm drinking. Probably the result of drinking SO much wine ...
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Ok. This is weird. I went to fix me a latte, and shortly after turning the machine on, literally within seconds, it started making a clunking noise and vibrating. It had a half a tank of water at the time. I emptied the boiler, and looked inside but I did not see anything wrong. After refilling the machine and turning it on again the noise and vibration went away. Has anyone ever had this happen?
Ponte Vecchio Lusso Strange Noise: [url]http://youtu.be/CflxpVmTs-o[/url] ([url]http://youtu.be/CflxpVmTs-o[/url])
Damn, thats an unnerving sound.
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Well the saga continues...
We ended up sending the machine back to 1st Line for repair. Last week 1st Line calls my coworker and tells him the control board was bad on his PVL and they replaced it. On Friday they called him again and asked to send back the double basket, single basket, funnel for filling boiler, and the measuring scoop or they would have to charge him for those items. Confused, my coworker John asked them why they would be charging him for those items when they would be sending the machine back to him after the repairs. 1st Line then proceeded to tell him they had boxed the machine up and put it back on the shelf for resale and need those items to go back with the machine, and would be issuing him a refund. Even more confused, my coworker said he did not want a refund. He wanted the PVL repaired and sent back to him. Whoever he talked to at 1st Line told him that accounting had already started the refund process and that he could buy anther machine if he wanted one, minus the cost of the portafilter, which I had made into a naked portafilter. They also told him they were charging him for the piston seals they had sent out and I had replaced. When he asked why they were charging him for the seals, they proceeded to tell him the seals were not the problem and were operating fine. He informed them that I had already changed the piston seals and the old ones were indeed torn and defective. He had pictures to prove it. They are still charging him $90 for a new portafilter.
He was so pissed that he told them to keep the machine and issue him a refund. I was was shocked at the way he was treated. Originally, he wanted to return the machine for a refund, but they told him there would be a 5% restocking fee, plus the cost of a new portafilter (understandable), plus he had to pay return shipping. Instead of getting a refund he decided, on my advice, to send the machine in for repairs. 1st Line even issued a "Repair Authorization Number" form that stated it was being sent in to be repaired, but instead of sending the machine back to him they stuck it on the shelf and refused to send it back.
It's bad enough that he got a machine that was defective in more ways than one, but now 1st line's customer service has exasperated the situation.
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Ouch !!!!
Dishonor among thieves !!!
>:( >:( >:(
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That is shockingly bad. :(
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Note to self: 1st line is the first to avoid....
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Note to self: 1st line is the first to avoid....
Yep. Thats despicable customer service.
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No 1st Line for me, EVER!
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Wtf? Was he just dealing with a rep or someone higher up?
That is just shocking, i have only heard good things from 1st line. I say cool down a bit see if he can speak with someone else otherwise dispute the crap out of that one if it was via a credit card and issue a bbb complaint.
I cant imagine that like taking your car to the dealer to fix a recall issue then they say you will get a refund minus depreciation. Wtf?!?!?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
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I've never had any problems with them.
Maybe this was just a bad day with a new employee or something. :-\
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Someone needs to send 1st line a copy of these comments so they know how badly their behavior is influencing their potential customer base. It's beyond my skill set, but maybe someone else can manage it.
Susan
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Yeah it's pretty shocking the way he was treated. When trying to get the replacement piston seals, it took 2 phone calls and 3 emails before they were finally sent out. I told my coworker that if it were me I would demand that they return the machine. He's to the point where he just wants to cut his loss and try to find something else. All in all this little experience has cost him about $125, counting the insured return shipping and the cost of the portafilter.
I dread the day I have to deal with them on a customer service level. And I'm afraid, with the track records of the current generations of PVL, that it may be inevitable.
If anyone is interested he does had a naked PVL portafilter to sell.
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Jason,
On the positive side I've had mine for over a year and had no problems at all.... Keep your fingers crossed!
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Jason,
On the positive side I've had mine for over a year and had no problems at all.... Keep your fingers crossed!
Mine has been doing well also, besides that odd clunking noise. Fingers crossed.
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I dread the day I have to deal with them on a customer service level. And I'm afraid, with the track records of the current generations of PVL, that it may be inevitable.
If anyone is interested he does had a naked PVL portafilter to sell.
Jason, I am interested. Please send me a PM re: cost for the naked portafilter + shipping.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for both of us with respect to future PVL & 1st Line experiences.
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After reading through the thread, is the general consensus that the PVL is not really worth the trouble?
I'd love to get a spring lever but it sounds like the QC issues + 1st Line's questionable customer service would make it a no-go.
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Well, my steam wand went out this weekend. :(
Worked fine that morning and then when I turned the machine on again that evening, nothing came out of the steam wand. Machine came to pressure fine, hot water dispenser works fine, and water flows fine through the group head. Messaged 1st Line and waiting to hear back.
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Well, my steam wand went out this weekend. :(
Worked fine that morning and then when I turned the machine on again that evening, nothing came out of the steam wand. Machine came to pressure fine, hot water dispenser works fine, and water flows fine through the group head. Messaged 1st Line and waiting to hear back.
Is the tip clogged? Maybe some milk? I've had that happen before.
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Well, my steam wand went out this weekend. :(
Worked fine that morning and then when I turned the machine on again that evening, nothing came out of the steam wand. Machine came to pressure fine, hot water dispenser works fine, and water flows fine through the group head. Messaged 1st Line and waiting to hear back.
Is the tip clogged? Maybe some milk? I've had that happen before.
I'll try that and see. I clean the holes frequently, but that could be my problem.