Green Coffee Buying Club
Coffee Discussion boards => Hardware & Equipment => Topic started by: Ascholten on January 29, 2017, 06:14:49 AM
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I was roasting samples this morning for other potential distributions.
Although I have an Artisan 6 which I absolutely love, and yes it can do 8 oz roasts (the size of a sample you get from Royal), it's just easier to do them on a smaller roaster, the controls are not so picky and don't need to be so fine tuned. Well it's not like you can do anything really to control an old style Behmor roaster. Not to mention it's very chilly this morning and I didn't want to go into the garage to roast when I can do the Behmor right in the bathroom like I always do with it and a window open.
It's about 65 degrees in the bathroom, no problem, I turn the Behmore on and let it run with an empty chamber a few minutes to heat it up then let it cycle out and then charge my beans and start the roast. Sure enough, the piece of sorry crap, right at first crack, kicks out on an error message. This happens ALL the time when it's cool in the room and I goto do a roast. Ive checked the control panel it's fine, wires are tight, nothing is binding, after burner, all is fine. I have owned 5 Behmor's now and all of the newer ones do this.
Some have said it's because the rest of the machine is cold and you need to do a warm up, true or not, it doesn't help.
So now I have a pile of beans that just started first crack, and I stop heating them. You can't just unplug / replug - reset the B and take right off again, oh no, you have to cool it down and let it reset, then you may be able to punch in another profile and begin roasting again. This is 5 to 10 minutes later. Yes you can put your beans in and 'continue' to roast from the start of a new cycle, but you pretty much pooched that roast. They are drinkable but not very well, drinkable. Once the machine threw this fit, it's will be fine, it will roast correctly after that.
I could see one machine doing this, but 3? These are not the new mod types where you can turn on and off the burner I think it is, but the newer of the old style. Either way I am just totally DONE with this sorry machine. I have no time or patience for a machine that may or may not trip out in cooler weather and I am tired of ruining coffee on them.
When they started out, these roasters were awesome, built like a tank, and customer service was pretty awesome too. Now.... forget it. I have over the years tried to contact their customer service many times on various topics, always polite and concise. Tried them in the forums, on their web page, e mail, etc. never get any reply back from them, not even a courtesy, we received your request.
Given how down hill their machines appear to have gone, and the total lack of ability to contact anyone there in the past, I'm done with them.
It's really a shame to see such a nice product turn into this.
At least I can get 8 cent a pound at the scrap yard for them.
Can anyone recommend a good 'starter' machine for those looking to get into coffee roasting that's not a 1000 dollar machine like a hot top? I used to always recommend the B but I can't do that in good faith anymore. Im looking for something that is pretty much plug and play, so heat guns, dog bowls etc are out of the question at this point :)
Thanks
Aaron
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Aaron,
I have owned a total of 7 Behmor's since they first came out, a lot of them newer refurbished units. As I roast in a normally unheated building, I have experienced some of your issues. In the winter I have to heat the room up first and usually blow a hair dryer in the Behmor to heat it up initially. I've had problems at the beginning of the roasts getting the temperature up enough to keep the roaster running but never have had it stop once it was going. At the end of last year I bought the newest version and it seems to be the best one I've had to date. It will roast in much lower temperatures of my previous ones and I can bring 15oz of green to second crack without any problems. The only downside I've experienced is that it will automatically go into cool down mode after 75% of the roast unless you hit start again in a 30 second timeframe. There is no audible signal when this happens just a flashing code so a couple of my first roasts ended prematurely. I now use a kitchen timer to alert me when this is about to happen.
I guess it's just luck of the draw in what you get. Behmor #6 seemed to only run at full heat no matter what the settings I entered but I have learned to work around that. Behmor#7 so far is the best one I've had yet.
kp
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But that's the thing Kelp, you shouldn't have to do goofy stuff like that to keep or get a roaster running. God, you can't figure out how to code the thing after how many years and how many mods now? Im sorry but I am through with them, this morning was the last straw and im tired of making excuses to keep recommending them to people.
Aaron
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Aaron ... have you ever tried a Gene Cafe?
???
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You might check out the Kaldi coffee roasters sold on Amazon. They offers various versions some as low as $200. You need to supply the heat source but I think the smaller one could be run on a gas stove top or side burner on a gas grill. Another option is the tried and true popcorn poppers. They don't roast 8oz but you could do a couple of smaller batches.
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I would throw in my 2cents for the SC/TO, because I have to do that, but understand if you want something you can pull out of the box roast.
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There are some really interesting sample roasters coming from Taiwan. Under $1000 some as little as $350. I personally use a pid' poppery 1 and i can definitely recommend that. they used to sell sample roasters for the field to take to farms that used a funnel on a heatgun attachment...i thought that was pretty slick.
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Thank you for your inputs everyone.
*I* have no problem tweaking and twiddling stuff, I was looking for more of an out of the box, plug and play for new people. I often introduce people to home roasted coffee and one of the first questions is how do I? Where do I get a?
Telling them, yah, get one of these roasters, they are great, and throw your beans in and have at it, is right up their alley.
Telling them, umm sure, goto good will, see if you can find xxx, then you need to do some electrical work, then you need to xxx... is not so much up their alley.
Telling them you can get a good roaster for 2 to 300 dollars, is up their alley.
Telling them it'll cost you about a grand to start, ... not so much up their alley.
The engineers I hang out with would be doing that in a minute, the non geeky types would balk for sure. I want something for those types.
I have not tried the Gene Cafe yet. I have heard mixed reviews on it, but admit it's been a while since I really looked into those. I may need to do some research on them see what folks think of them lately.
Thanks
Aaron
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I'm no expert... but why not recommend a whirley pop or other stovetop popcorn maker to a total newbie? You definitely won't break the bank, but the manual intervention of the hand crank isn't quite plug and play. They may decide to supplement with a cheap Coleman camp stove if they don't have access to a gas stove top, but that isn't much money either.
If someone isn't committed enough to figure out how to get a decent roast out of a $20 whirley pop can they really be expected to do the same with a machine that costs a couple hundred dollars?
That at least gets them in the roasting game, and then they can be the ones to decide where to go from there. If they decide they enjoy coffee roasting they may want to learn to put together SC/TO to save some cash, or drop $1000 on something that just works. But that is ultimately their decision. The main goal is to get them in the game!
Just my 2 scents...
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I started off with one of those simple nostalgia air popcorn poppers and I buy a few now and then when I see them on sale so that I can give them to friends that want to try to roast their own coffee. Pulled two guys into the coffee roasting world with them.
One batch on them makes enough for about 1/2 a pot of coffee.
I've found them for ~$15 on average, right in the range I'm happy to shell out for most friends.
1 of the friends went to the Fresh Roast, and the other grabbed a Behmor. I'm with you though, not enjoying my Behmor much these days. The lack of control is less than ideal.
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I'm sorry you're having trouble with your B Aaron. I have had it happen and know how frustrating it is.
What size batch are you roasting? When trying to shorten my overall time today I roasted a 200g batch. Charge temp was 175(B), 18min start, full manual, full heat.
At the 11 min mark (countdown) the B temp was 315 so I dropped the heat (P1) 10 sec to avoid shutdown as it goes to err at 320 B temp.
The only reason I posted the above is that I've not found a viable off the shelf replacement for the B that is less than $1000 or so, the three most likely candidates being the Hottop, Quest, or Huky in increasing price order well over that amount.
I know I've probably offended the popper, HGDB, or SC/TO crowd. I've never had decent roasts from these methods. Not saying they aren't possible, but I've never personally experienced them.
And like you Badam, I'm running out of options on my B in my quest for top-shelf home roast. Maybe my smaller batches will be the ticket. I sure wish I could shut off that darn exhaust fan that starts 7min+/- into the roast, or time it to where it's and the end of 1C.
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Another thing that does not help with the Behmor is the heat cycling. Any other roaster the heat stays fairly constant input, that thing shutting off the element, sometimes for 30 to 45 seconds, especially as you said, with a fan running now, I can't see how that helps development any once first crack starts.
I unfortunately have to agree with you, the Behmor is a great price, but they sure seem to have really gone down hill over the years in quality. I don't ever remember my first one I bought way back when they came out having ANY of these problems ever. I just can't in good faith recommend them anymore given my past experiences with 3 of them, knowing full well, that other people are going to get frustrated as well with them.
My sample size was 8 ounces. That is the standard size from Royal for a sample. Reducing size, ... not an option anymore. If I can't roast 8 ounces of coffee in a roaster that is supposedly able to roast a pound, then I don't want anything to do with it anymore. This isn't just me, Ive talked to many people who had Behmor and they lament very similar to how I am. Really a shame too given how awesome this roaster used to be when it first came out.
Aaron
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I think that the other options available and increasing roast-quality consciousness have shifted the goal-posts and they just haven't kept up with the market.
It's unfortunate that a better solutions get pretty spendy.
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Sad to hear about Behmor. I was close to buying one a few years ago, but one walk thru Goodwill and I had everything I needed for a steel bowl, steel stirring armed SC powered TO roaster. Been on that thing a couple years now.
I look at drum roasters online, and I am always baffled how the price gets so spendy for some steel with a motor attached. I guess it's due to the hand-crafted nature surrounding a relatively low volume piece of equipment?
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I think you bring a very good point there batman. Even though these things are hand crafted, which takes a LOT longer than mass produced stuff off an assembly line, and quite possibly can also mean superior quality, one still needs to remember that the person doing the crafting STILL has to feed the family, pay the rent, medical, etc etc, you get the idea. If they are spending 50 hr's a week building roasters, there's not a lot of other time left to do 'another' job, so they need to make that worth while to do, AND support the family. I try to look at that when I buy hand made or crafted stuff and remember that I am helping support someone. I don't get into the artsy fartsy stuff where some dropout welds two pieces of metal together, calls it art and wants 10 grand for it, but if someone is building a quality useful product, I'll pay for it as long as the prices are realistic.
Aaron
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For what a Behmor costs I think it's worth saving a little more to buy a Hot Top, possibly used. Behmors just have too many little idiosyncrasies that soon become very annoying. I have a used early model someone gave me that is definitely better than the one it replaced. Unless it's extremely cold outsude, I can usually roast.
What about those Korean drum roasters on eBay?
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Sorry to hear about your problems. But to be clear are you also saying that the newer "Behmor 1600 plus" should not have these same problems? As that is the machine that one would likely purchase today.
I have a Behmor 1600 that is 4+ years old and I roast outside year round. Though I try to roast during the late afternoon on the warmer days of winter it not always possible to find a warm stretch so that occasionally that means roasting at near 40 degrees F. So far it has worked pretty well and not shutoff like you are describing, though even on the warmest days I do not like needing to preheat, worrying about early cool down due to time running out, etc.
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My machine is the original basic model. I have the new board but haven't installed it. During this past winter I found that prewarming inside for two minutes then roasting on my porch usually worked. Unless it eas minus 10 outside.
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LOL @MassWineGuy I have the same thing! I roast with mine in the garage and warm for 2 minutes shut off and start the roast. I warm it with the beans in it.
All I can say is, so far so good!
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I have tried that several times, and am roasting in a temperatures probably in the 50's and preheat, it didn't matter, it still faulted.
What I found that did work was to run an empty batch on a short cycle, let the POS fault out, cool down enough to reset then do my batch(es) in it.
Eventually I just got a better roaster and don't have to play games anymore.
Aaron
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Eventually I just got a better roaster and don't have to play games anymore.
Aaron
Which roaster did you get?
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The building I roast in can be below freezing in the winter when I first go in. I keep a small hairdryer nearby, open the Behmor and let it blow inside for a couple minutes. After that I never have any problems keeping it going.
kp
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Hello Paul, sorry I did not see your post earlier. I went to the Artisan 6. It's a much larger roaster thats for sure, however they are coming out with a smaller model as well for those who do not want to put that much into a roaster. I got mine without all the whistles and bells on it, I essentially am roasting outside, I don't need a chaff collector, the piping and fan etc and all that stuff that comes along with it so the unit was significantly cheaper that way.
I can reliably roast as little as 8 oz in the thing and I have done batches close to 8 lbs. The unit is VERY responsive, being electric, in that if you want to make an on the fly tweak, you just turn the power knob and in a few seconds, your change is there, you are not waiting 5 minutes for the heat to go up, or down as it may be. I love it it works really well.
kelpdaddy thats the thing though, I don't expect to have to play games with my roaster to get it to work right. In your case yes the temperature is a bit extreme, but in a room that is say 50 degrees? or a bit more to have it do the same thing, that's unsat.
Aaron
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I bought a new SC/TO from Amazon for about $70. Only mods I made were to put a washer/nut on in place of the cap (which could melt) and threaded two small strips of perforated steel (usually used to secure pipes) to the stirrer to give it some paddle strength. The TO came with a metal spacer and I cut it and tightened to the circumference of the SC which is slightly smaller than the TO top.
20 minutes with tin snips and a drill. Have roasted 40+ pounds since I bought it and extremely happy with ease of use and durability. I set it up outside and mess around in the garden while I wait for it to crack.
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oh good job there drg, but be careful about wandering off and waiting for crack while doing something else. As you get older and that CRS gene gets stronger, you will find it very easy to return to billowing smoke and a glowing pile of starbucks.
Aaron
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Aaron, thanks for the reply. Nice roaster but a tad out of my price range. I'm using a Turbo-Crazy and I'm on my 2nd convection oven now, the first one having bit the dust. I started out with Popperys many years ago. I've begun to look at dedicated home roasters now in case I ever want to go that route. I'll check out the new smaller Artisan when it comes out. I just roast for my wife and me, nobody else, so a pound at a time is all I need.
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The poppery was a good way to get into it, and was more of a 'see you can roast coffee this way too, type thing really. It's really hard to control the heat on it and often you roasted too fast, but even then it was still tons better that store bought glop at 5 bucks a cup.
Aaron
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Aaron, agreed. I haven't bought store coffee in 14 years and never will again.