Custom Handmade Italian Grinder. Thoughts?

[staylor]

When I look at that grinder I immediately think of 1970's Russia. Even if it's a fantastic grinder I still think there has to be an element of aesthetic appeal and this design doesn't really resonate with me for some reason.

[Warrior372]

I am not doing this to become a millionaire. I am doing it because it is a fun challenge for me personally and I enjoy it. I would rather have a lot of passion and a little profit because if I had huge profit margins and no passion I would not be able to sell anything at all. I do not have a 'store' to pay rent on or keep open. I know what I like to buy and I want to share that with other people for a price that is as affordable as possible.

I have a very similar take on it's looks Staylor. I asked him for some pictures of the doserless model he makes. We will see if that and some chrome help it out.

[staylor]

I am not doing this to become a millionaire. I am doing it because it is a run challenge for me personally. I would rather have a lot of passion and a little profit because if I had huge profit margins and no passion I would not be able to sell anything at all. I do not have a 'store' to pay rent on or keep open. I know what I like to buy and I want to share that with other people for a price that is as affordable as possible.

I have a very similar take on it's looks Staylor.

I totally agree with your approach to the venture, it's exactly how I approach my 'jobs'. I'm passionate about the businesses I run and so I enjoy them as 'hobbies' when in fact they are actually work but it doesn't feel like work. None of the stuff I do is going to make me a millionaire but I think I've got a pretty good balance between profit and enjoyment.

[John F]

Just one opinion but It's not for me....the over 1k handmade grinder market.

Maybe if it had some drop dead looks and futuristic burrs that last forever and a day....

Custom colors and the knowledge that a grinder craftsman built it on his bench are not enough for me. 

[Warrior372]

Just one opinion but It's not for me....the over 1k handmade grinder market.

Maybe if it had some drop dead looks and futuristic burrs that last forever and a day....

Custom colors and the knowledge that a grinder craftsman built it on his bench are not enough for me. 

You need to factor in the quality and power of the motors too. My initial point was function over form, as I too am not bedazzled by how it looks. This thing is a station wagon with a Viper engine in it selling for slightly more than a normal station wagon. We are comparing it to an entry level camaro. The camaro looks cooler, but once the light turns green the station wagon with the viper engine in it would cream it.

Here is a great comparison. The grinder below is from a company called Quamar in Italy. The burr size is the same - 75mm, everyone will consider them to be much more attractive (including myself), they actually cost the same amount of money, but it is not hand made and the motors inside of it are far inferior at just above half the the horsepower, .44HP, spinning at 900RPM.  A .44HP motor will quit on you much sooner with the same amount of work and the burrs will get stuck much easier than a .80HP motor, plus it spins at 300 higher RPM which will heat up the coffee more as it is being ground. In this instance, to me, the question becomes do you want to pay for what is under the hood or what covers it?

Here are pictures of the Quamar grinder. I would likely sell the Electric Dose dispenser version for $1,200. It has two programmable buttons for 2 different weights. I feel like people in general would like these better, but they are literally half the machine for the same amount of money. I see very little substance here and only flash. Mind you, this grinder is statistically as the Mazzer Mini-E (This actually has the same motor stats and larger burrs than the Mazzer by 17mm for $100 dollars less). I would only offer it in polished chrome finish. The picture of the model with the doser is just here for you to visualize the Electric version with the chrome.

Do not forget the statue in the middle of the room is a Bosco. They themselves are not exactly Lamborghini's. They might be shiny, but you buy them because of their quality, tradition and the fact that it will last 100 years and you buy a La Marzocco GS/3 for flash, bang and oh whoops it broke. . . now I need another $500 control board. This does not mean I have changed my mind about how the grinders look yet. I really hope the chrome ones look a bit different .

[blzrfn]

I love handmade/artisan products.  To me, though, that usually means that the artist/craftsman has made something beautiful on top of being functional.  For form to come second to function it would have to perform well above other products at the same price point to be of interest to me.  This is where we see lots of enthusiasts using pop bottles, funnels, external PIDs, etc to make their equipment perform more to their liking.  You wouldn't see a whole lot of chopped up pop bottles being sold as a doserless kits being very popular though.  For that grinder to sell it would have to perform well above its price level to compete IMHO.  I just have a hard time imagining that looking good sitting next to ANY espresso machine, commercial or residential.

[Warrior372]

I love handmade/artisan products.  To me, though, that usually means that the artist/craftsman has made something beautiful on top of being functional.  For form to come second to function it would have to perform well above other products at the same price point to be of interest to me.  This is where we see lots of enthusiasts using pop bottles, funnels, external PIDs, etc to make their equipment perform more to their liking.  You wouldn't see a whole lot of chopped up pop bottles being sold as a doserless kits being very popular though.  For that grinder to sell it would have to perform well above its price level to compete IMHO.  I just have a hard time imagining that looking good sitting next to ANY espresso machine, commercial or residential.

The vast majority of Bosco's in Italian cafes have those grinders sitting right next to them. They are supposedly renowned for being complete and utter workhorses that last forever. '

Something I also think is being neglected is the fact that small shops do not have accountants roaming around trying to cut costs leading to cut corners. When you let people who know what they are doing do what they want, you get a better product.

The motor in that grinder is better than the one you would find in a $1,600-$1,800 Anfin Super Caimano. So, you are telling me if I sold that for somewhere between $1,200-$1,300 you would buy it? This motor not be an oddity, I cannot find the exact specs on any other motor . . . . And I have been looking for a few hours. I will be interested to see the manufacturers answers to my questions.

[grinderz]

My 2 cents and offered in the most helpful, non judgmental, least argumentative way... 

I'm thinking maybe the longevity angle isn't quite the right focus for choosing grinders to offer. What is your market segment? The uber-prosumer or SCAA professional types or ?? If it's the really high end consumer market, I think most of those folks know that they'll never grind enough beans to burn up a run of the mill Super Jolly, Macap, etc. Grind quality and esthetics is what I think will get the good reviews and move units.

[Warrior372]

I agree. That is why I keep saying I hope it looks better without a doser and chrome plated. I can tell you the customer service I have received from Wega is pretty much non existent, so you had better hope nothing ever happens to your high-end grinder. That is with my point of contact being the National VP of Sales . . . . You think he would be able to get stuff done?!?

[staylor]

Grind quality and esthetics is what I think will get the good reviews and move units.

Agreed, well except for the esthetics part because it makes me think we are talking about going to get our nails done. ;-)

[grinderz]

Grind quality and esthetics is what I think will get the good reviews and move units.

Agreed, well except for the esthetics part because it makes me think we are talking about going to get our nails done. ;-)

Not that kind of esthetics... you know, the Italian kind 

[Warrior372]

You are comparing the sleek lines of a handmade Italian road bike to the likes of this Italian made Iveco 6x6 . It is definitely not very cool looking (outside of the whole 6 wheel thing), but I bet it would be a heck of a lot of fun to drive! Now where did I put that Christmas list. . . .

[hankua]

I like the looks of the custom grinder! better than the Rancilio MD80 which has 75mm burrs as well. (this one just sold on ebay today)
 Chrome plated to match the Bosco or high gloss black with lots of clear coat.

[Warrior372]

Hankua,

The million dollar question is, what would you pay for it?

Watch everyone will suddenly think it is so cool once it has a chrome plated steel shell .

[mp]

I would say black and silver chrome has a flash appeal and round vs square is more sexy ... look at the Ferrari and Lamborghini.