Author Topic: Mastering the Moka  (Read 4399 times)

Offline John F

  • White Rabbit
  • Retired Old Goats
  • **
  • Posts: 14237
  • Coffee elitist
Mastering the Moka
« on: January 15, 2007, 06:17:03 PM »

I revisit brewing methods over the year(s) and next up is Moka Pot.

I've never been happy with my Moka pot coffee.  :'(

Lately I've been messing with it and have found decent results with a Moka Pot latte..It's got me wondering if I should get a better Moka Pot or see how other people are preparing their MP coffee.

I have a small aluminum  "Made in Italy" jobber. I've always filled the coffee to level in the basket and water up to the relief valve for a full pot. I've never tried making less than a full load, as it's the small version anyway. I had been timing the   coffee to conclude at 5 min but recently learned that if I keep it on low the entire time it still concludes at 5.5 min and is not as forceful at the end of the cycle.

Are there improvements to the above?

Can I expect better results with SS.. a Brikka or something?

Should I be altering the parameters?

I understand Moka Pots are the bomb in Italy how do they normally prepare the coffee after brewing?


John F


 

 
"At no point should you be in condition white unless you are in your bed sleeping with your doors locked."

Lee Morrison

BoldJava

  • Guest
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2007, 06:48:10 PM »
>>>I've never been happy with my Moka pot coffee...>>>

John, We have 4 moka pots (2 stainless steel and 2 alum).  I could not be more pleased with them. It is our daily morning ritual to enjoy the homeroast from one of them.

You have the schtick down correctly.  I use medium heat and I would say it is finished in about 7-8 minutes on an electric burner with the same amount of coffee and water as you are suggesting.  Per Maria, at Sweetmaria's, less than a full pot just won't work so I have never tried it.

Couple of thoughts...don't use detergent with a moka pot.  Number two, you must use them consistently.  I am not sure why, but they get funky without regular use.  I had read that and found it hard to believe (I rotate ours) but I visited my daughter and she only uses her on weekends.  I tried it (it too was a Bialetti) and I said, "This isn't the same coffee machine" (I had taken our homeroast with us).

Try brewing and tossing out about 4-5 brewing cycles and then try one...see if you notice a difference and stick with it for a week to 10 days...bet it improves.

B|Java, who will press pot or ibrik as well

Offline John F

  • White Rabbit
  • Retired Old Goats
  • **
  • Posts: 14237
  • Coffee elitist
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2007, 07:01:18 PM »
B|Java, how do you normally prepare your cups?

Full strength, dilute like aeropress, milk drink, or what?

Also, do you have thoughts on SS vs. Aluminum?

John F

"At no point should you be in condition white unless you are in your bed sleeping with your doors locked."

Lee Morrison

BoldJava

  • Guest
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2007, 07:09:18 PM »
>>>Full strength, dilute like aeropress, milk drink, or what? ...>>>

I drink it straight up.  No diluting.  Sometimes black and at times, with a quick skosh of cream.  My wife drinks it like a latte.

>>>Stainless steel vs. alum...>>>

It could be mental, but the stainless steel produces a cleaner, sharper <?> cup.  I have never blind cupped but if I respond with what immediately comes to mind.  I enjoy them both.

We have only Bialetti's.  I had some knock offs but had recurring problems with them.  I have a brikka ordered at Amazon (out of stock).  I bought a mukka express pot but am very disappointed with it.  I can not recommend it at all.

B|Java

BoldJava

  • Guest
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2007, 04:52:31 PM »

...I've never been happy with my Moka pot coffee.  :'( ...

John F

Did you have any luck or is it back on the shelf collecting dust?

B|Java

ButtWhiskers

  • Guest
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2007, 09:23:22 AM »
For years all I used was a mokapot (I had quite a collection, but I passed most of them on).  The 3-cup size worked the best for me, and as the Goat Guy pointed out, they need to be kept in regular use for proper functionality.  I never used detergent, just rinsing them out quickly after they cooled and brushing the seal.  What I found was that the grind was the really important part - a blade grinder is insufficient - you want consistently sized grounds and they shouldn't be too fine.  The coffee needs to be loosely packed (if you tamp it you will have big problems, see below).  It takes some time to develop a consistent process, but when done right you will actually get crema and an extraction that runs about 45-55 seconds.  I always heated up the electric burner to medium-high, then placed the loaded mokapot on it.  It would usually take about 2 or 3 minutes for the extraction to start.

This was a daily ritual, and I used to make beverages for my wife and I before leaving for work every morning.  One morning, however, I nearly wound up in the hospital...  I had set up the mokapots and put them on the burner as usual.  I had placed my milk steamer on another burner, as I did every morning.  About a minute into it, I heard the buzzer on the dryer go off downstairs, and breaking my usual procedure, I ran down there to remove my shirt.  Right before I got back into the kitchen I heard an explosion, and walked in to see that the top of one of the mokapots had blown off.  There was black coffee literally painting the ceiling and walls around the stove.  Further investigation showed that three factors caused this:

1) The pressure relief valve on the lower part of the mokapot was scaled over with lime, preventing the release of overpressure.

2) Some retard had dialed the grinder down to a much finer setting (wonder who that was...)

3) The basket was probably slightly overpacked.  [I used to carefully pack in an attempt to get about 4 atm pressure when extracting.  This is a no-no]

The explosion occurred when the screen above the basket literally ripped in a semicircle allowing sudden release of pressure.  After this experience, I was much more cautious about checking the pressure relief valve and not grinding too fine.  If I had been standing in my usual attentive position in front of the burner, I would have been scalded with steam and grounds.   :P

My love affair with mokapots ended when I bought a Saeco Gran Crema, which made decent shots without so much daily cleanup.  I gradually passed most of them on to less fortunate individuals that had no means of making espresso-like beverages at home, although I still have a milk steamer and a couple of these for camping. 

BTW- mine were all aluminum, and I believe that regular use allows a coating of the device with coffee oils.  If they sit around not being used, the oil goes rancid and gets bacterial growth.  Then the product can be pretty rank tasting.  When I used them every day they seemed to get better and better.

Offline John F

  • White Rabbit
  • Retired Old Goats
  • **
  • Posts: 14237
  • Coffee elitist
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2007, 02:42:33 PM »

Did you have any luck or is it back on the shelf collecting dust?


Yes to both..... ;D

I discovered that (for me anyway) the directions on Sweet Maria's were causing me to make an inferior cup. I was raising the heat to produce a 5 min. brew and that was causing several problems.

When I went to just setting my temp to low (gas stove) the brew cycle was extended to about 6 min. but with observation of the coffee filling the top it was obvious that this was a better process. Of course it was not espresso but the resulting brew was "espresso like" in its production. Before I was getting a 3 second gush of coffee followed by a 2 second BLAST of water. I think the pressure was simply blasting channels in the coffee and flying into the top. Slowing things down produced a sustained "brew" of ...I'm not sure but I'd guess a 15-20 second brew cycle with no water...not blonding my previous brews were pure water towards the end. :-\

So I corrected my process and used the coffee to build 10-12 milk drinks that were pretty good. After that it went back to the shelf but now that I've had better luck with it I feel better about it.

On a tight budget it seems like one could use a $30 steam toy to steam milk with and a Moka pot for "shots" and things could certainly be much worse. I never did try the coffee on it's own or try to dilute it like Aero Press brew but it as well as the Aero Press seem like good tools to have in your arsenal.

John F


 
"At no point should you be in condition white unless you are in your bed sleeping with your doors locked."

Lee Morrison

BoldJava

  • Guest
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2007, 04:22:00 AM »
Quote
On a tight budget it seems like one could use a $30 steam toy to steam milk with and a Moka pot for "shots" and things could certainly be much worse. I never did try the coffee on it's own or try to dilute it like Aero Press brew...

John, As a daily moka-man, I don't feel the coffee is concentrated enough to ever consider using it as an espresso substitute.  It is a nice, strong cup but nothing close to an espresso.  Only one person's opinion.

B|Java

Offline John F

  • White Rabbit
  • Retired Old Goats
  • **
  • Posts: 14237
  • Coffee elitist
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2007, 05:29:14 AM »
Quote
John, As a daily moka-man, I don't feel the coffee is concentrated enough to ever consider using it as an espresso substitute.

Really.......

I thought it made a decently rich/chocolaty milk drink.

It might be that I used it 50/50 of possibly 40/60 with milk but to me it wasn't totally washed out or anything.

 ???

My MP is the 4oz version and I fill the coffee basket to level to the top...wonder what we are doing different.?

John F
"At no point should you be in condition white unless you are in your bed sleeping with your doors locked."

Lee Morrison

BoldJava

  • Guest
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2007, 05:39:55 AM »
Quote
My MP is the 4oz version and I fill the coffee basket to level to the top...wonder what we are doing different.?

Either grind or taste differences?

I grind for the moka pot about 1/2 way between an espresso grind and a drip pot grind.  I put very, very little cream/milk in my coffee.  Might account for our differences.  My wife does more of a latte, 50/50, coffee/milk.  I shudder but then she is my Valentine...

B|Java

Offline John F

  • White Rabbit
  • Retired Old Goats
  • **
  • Posts: 14237
  • Coffee elitist
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2007, 06:00:56 AM »
Quote
My wife does more of a latte, 50/50, coffee/milk. 

Ok...she rocks!  ;D ;D 8)

I guess I prefer MP as a milk drink, AP as an Americano style, Ibrik "served", drip on a continuous IV drip  ;D, and espresso in all of it's glorious forms my fav. being espresso macchiato (a dash of milk).

John F
"At no point should you be in condition white unless you are in your bed sleeping with your doors locked."

Lee Morrison

Jeffo

  • Guest
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2007, 07:38:38 PM »
Two questions:

For a 3 tasse or 6 oz size:
-Approx. how many grams of coffee is needed?
-Approx. how much caffeine will there be compared to a typical 6 oz drip? Not looking for exact BW testing results, just want to prevent an anxiety attack.  :o

BoldJava

  • Guest
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2007, 05:26:47 AM »
Two questions:

For a 3 tasse or 6 oz size:
-Approx. how many grams of coffee is needed?
-Approx. how much caffeine will there be compared to a typical 6 oz drip? Not looking for exact BW testing results, just want to prevent an anxiety attack.  :o


Jeff, first, fill the water reservoir to the fill line (a mark on the inside only, and just on one of the numerous sides.  Measure that amount.  http://www.bialettishop.com/MokaExpressSpecials.htm

I am providing guidance for the 10 oz. (not 6 oz.) reservoir that was marked, "3-tasse," when I bought it. This is why I suggest measuring it rather than assuming. That 10 oz. steams out with a little over 9 oz. of coffee.

For 10 oz., I use 24g (or a tad more).  Two rounded Alterra spoonsful.  Great spoon for clearing the MACAP's throat, after grinding.

Caffeine level?  I am only backing my way into this logically.  A little stronger taste/extraction <?> than a pourover, so a proportionately "little" higher caffeine level?  Strictly a guess; chemistry wasn't my strongest suit.  That is why BW is on these boards.

I will be very curious about your reaction to the Bialetti.  We love them but they do put a "husky" spin on every bean (wrestling for the right word), very different than a standard French press or pourover.  I bet you don't find it all that appealing but I will await the verdict.  Your tastes run purer than mine.

B|Java
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 05:36:58 AM by BoldJava »

BoldJava

  • Guest
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2007, 05:42:10 AM »
Two questions:

For a 3 tasse or 6 oz size:
-Approx. how many grams of coffee is needed?

What a comedy of errors I went thru to weigh this out.  I knew it was two Alterra spoonsful but assumed they were about 15g for each spoonful.  Didn't want to mislead you so I went to the kitchen to measure it out.  Reached into the cupboard for the scale:

1)  It went flying on the floor
2)  Battery cover sprung off and of course, the batts rolled under the stove
3)  In reaching for the scale to catch it, I shoved a bag of zippered Zambia
4)  The bag opened within the cupboard, spilling about 1/4 lb of Zambians down in the back, behind all the cooking oils
5)  Moved the stove
6)  "There's where that pen got to"
7)  Enough greens under the stove to do a small Gene roast
8)  Found a quarter among the dust-bunnies.

24g, Jeff.  Phew.

B|Java
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 05:44:56 AM by BoldJava »

BoldJava

  • Guest
Re: Mastering the Moka
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2007, 06:05:26 AM »
Quote
  I had to get a cat to get that kind of entertainment. The only difference is the cat's fur cleans up the dust bunnies.
Curly

Ooooh...the things I said as it all went down.

And on a Sunday morning nonetheless.

B|Java, not in need of a cat for interesting moments