Gene Cafe Profiles / Q&A / Tips & Tricks

[thejavaman]

...Sneaking $10s in the drawer, every now and then.  Trying to nudge CFS to become the NAmerican agent...

Are you saving for a Hottop, the "new" Gene or the Quest M3 you just mentioned?  From what I've read, the Quest M3 is ~$1,000 w/shipping.  Being that it's a new(er) roaster and it hasn't had much time to get used and abused by us coffee geeks to expose any potential operation/parts/customer service problems, the "cautious and careful" side of me still says "buy the Hottop (B Model) at ~$800.00 w/shipping".  I will be watching closely to see how the new Gene is priced and when it will be actually on the shelf, ready to buy though....

EDIT:  Our own Warrior372, mentioned the Quest M3 IN THIS THREAD a while back.  The subsequent responses to his posts relatively sum up my feelings on it at this point in time as well.  Dropping ~$1,000 for an electric roaster with a 300 gram (~9-10 oz.) capacity with no computer or profile control might end up being the deal breaker for me.  In the end, once I save enough dough, I'll probably go straight to CFS and see what type of a deal I can get on one of his Hottop B models, but that's just my feelings as of today (which are obviously subject to change over time)....  

[BoldJava]

Are you saving for a Hottop, the "new" Gene or the Quest M3 you just mentioned?  ...

Yes.

I am unsure of what is next but by the time I get the nickels together, there will be more voices in on the Quest and someone (hint, hint CFS) will be the distributor in NAmer.  I really like the Gene but at the end of the day, it is an air roaster.  That to me is its downfall and doesn't develop the body to the degree I am after.  And yes, I am being nit-picky at this point.

B|Java

[cfsheridan]

Hints are noted.  Hard to be a distributor of something in the US if it's not UL listed, and I don't see this product on that path.

[Richdel]

Let me first start off by saying this was roast #63, so I don't think I am an unexperienced noob.
But at the end of this roast, I did feel like an unexperienced noob.

While trying to determine how to clean the glass carafe of the Gene, I removed the center
metal vane with the swinging chaff deflector.  I decided to I needed Cafiza to clean the stains
on the glass properly, replaced the metal vane, and went to the PC to order Cafiza.

Fast forward 3 days.  I am roasting 8oz of Ethiopian Sidamo Maduro from Sweet Maria's, marking
down temps at 30 second intervals.  The roast profile I was using for this bean was a hot Gene,
dump beans, set temp for 476dgf until FC, then back off to ~467dgf.  At the 3:30 minute mark,
I was already at 435dgf, but I heard the clicking of the heater saying it was at requested temperature. 
Seeing it was only at 435dgf, instead of 476dgf, I started to look for issues.  Yep variac is working
properly, Kill-A-Watt is reading 121v.  But heat coming out of the large chaff collector is not as hot as it
should be.  A look inside the dirty Gene carafe (Cafiza has not arrived yet) shows huge amount of chaff clogging the out vent of the carafe.  And the swinging chaff deflector is indeed swinging, just not over the chaff exit vent.

When I put the metal vane back into the glass carafe, I installed it incorectlye, so the swinging chaff deflector was not over the exit vent.  On with the Ove Gloves, "E-Stop" the Gene, make necessary repair, and back on with the Gene to finish the roast.  The repair took about 1 minute to diagnose, and ~4 minutes to repair.  Instead of an expected FC of ~10 minutes, I had a FC of 16 minutes.  Still haven't tried the beans yet, so maybe I was able to save the roast.

The chaff that was cleaned out of the carafe during the repair time, was wet from moisture that was escaping the bean, but not exiting the carafe.  My initial fears of "oh crap, my Gene heater is failing since it won't go over 435dgf",  quickly turned into "oh crap, what a friggin idiot I am".

So, in keeping with the thread title, a gentle reminder/tip to all Gene owners, make sure to orient the metal vane properly to allow the chaff deflector to swing over the carafe exit vent after removal of the metal vane for cleaning.   

[Richdel]

I am looking for some help on cleaning, and what everyone has used to clean the glass carafe.
I can purchase Simple Green at the local Home Depot, or I can purchase Cafiza from Amazon since
I am unable to find it locally.  Have either of these two products worked for anyone in removing
a baked on brown oil film on the inside of the glass carafe?  Is there another product that you have
used with success?  Do I make a diluted solution with the product and let it sit for a few hours, then scrub with a nylon brush?  It's getting hard to see the beans on one side of the carafe, so I need to get the
it cleaned.  Thanks!

[Goose]

Looking to get some feedback and comments on line power for the Gene.

I have 124V at the outlet, a VariAC with a killawatt hooked up to it. I have spoken to Tim Skales a few times, his recommendation was 109 volts at line level as he claims the Gene was optimized for that line voltage.

I have found 120 volts (line voltage) drops to 109 under load when heating- seems like the best compromise so far.

Any thoughts?

[BoldJava]

his recommendation was 109 volts at line level as he claims the Gene was optimized for that line voltage....

Tim may say that but there is no way 109 is adequate voltage for me to roast with the Gene.  My experience tells me differently. Roasts suffer once beginning voltage is -below 117-118.  I set mine at 120 and go with that.

B|Java

[Richdel]

If you ran a test to see how long it takes to get to 482dgf with
only 109v, I am pretty sure you may not be able to get to the endpoint.

BV (before variac), I had a line voltage of 120-122v (dependant on what was
running on the circuit at that time), and the drop would take me 114v-116v.
The time to FC was so long that I feared I was baking rather then roasting.
I usually set the variac to a point that I can take a empty and cold Gene from
room temp (~72dgf) to 482dgf in ~6.5 to 7 minutes.  IMO, faster is better,
but slower is not better.

[Goose]

Rich
Are you saying that 122 is too low for you to start at?

[Richdel]

Rich
Are you saying that 122 is too low for you to start at?

Sorry for not seeing this sooner.

The short answer is Yes. 

With my Gene plugged into the KAW, then into the variac, then into the wall outlet, and the Gene on, but not running/heating, I read between 120v-124v.  The moment I start the heating cycle of the Gene, I see the line voltage drop to 114v-117v.  I have not spent a lot time trying to isolate what other electrical devices are on the circuit drawing, OR, if there is anything on the circuit.  I just know that when the heater of the Gene is drawing power (trying to reach a setpoint temp), the line voltage drops to a point that I do not feel I can roast as well as I should.  That's why I now use a variac. 

However, when the Gene reaches a setpoint, and the heater has cycled off, the KAW reading will be significantly higher then the starting line voltage of 120-124v, due to the fact that the variac is supplying additional voltage.  During these brief moments that the Gene heater is cycling on and off, the KAW readings may go from 120v (heater on) to 128v (heater off).  Trying to adjust this during a roast would be impossible as the heater is constantly cycling on/off after reaching setpoint.  I read that normal 120v appliances should be able to handle +/- 5% of the line voltage without damaging the appliance.  So 126volts (when the heater is off) should not be affecting the Gene.  I sometimes am a volt of two above that threshold though.  Hopefully this won't cause undue wear on the internal electrical components.

[Goose]

Thanks for the reply Rich.

[BoldJava]

Periodically the Gene doesn't come up to temp.  Today, it kept stalling at 445.  Talked with Tim Skaling and he encouraged a complete clean, particularly the fan.  Tim said the heater has a thermocouple <?> and if the heater isn't getting enough air from the fan, it restrains/governs the heater.

I pulled the fan (you have to pull the heater first).  Full of dust and gunk.  Couldn't get enough of the gunk off so I ran it over to our auto mechanic. Few blasts of the air compressor -- still dirty.  Then some blasts of brake cleaner (a liquid agent like fluids used in dry cleaning). More compressed air.  Fan is good as new.   Here is a link if you need visuals:   http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/gene-cafe-major-clean

Used q-tips and shop vac.  Clean as a whistle.  Reassemble.  Broke down the chaff collector; parts soaking in a weak solution (1:5, Simple Green:  Water) over night.  Hand wash.  Reassemble.

Let's see if that does it.  If it doesn't, half tempted to recycle the Gene and buy an SR500.

B|Java

[BoldJava]

Periodically the Gene doesn't come up to temp.  Today, it kept stalling at 445.  Talked with Tim Skaling and he encouraged a complete clean, particularly the fan.  Tim said the heater has a thermocouple <?> and if the heater isn't getting enough air from the fan, it restrains/governs the heater.

I pulled the fan (you have to pull the heater first).  Full of dust and gunk.  Couldn't get enough of the gunk off so I ran it over to our auto mechanic. Few blasts of the air compressor -- still dirty.  Then some blasts of brake cleaner (a liquid agent like fluids used in dry cleaning). More compressed air.  Fan is good as new....

B|Java

Well, that didn't work.  A couple of good cycles and then wham, stalling and unable to climb past 445*.   Then, 1.800.Call.Tim.  Well, could be the fan ...

Loosen the screws that secure the fan to the chasis and the fan screws.  Wiggle the fan out, unplugging it from the mother board.  Now, new fan outlet will fit snugly into the heater intake.  Screw back into place.  Make sure you haven't realigned the gear wheels.  Test by inserting the bean hopper into the gear assemblies.

OK, new one installed.  30 minutes.  It is around a 5 minute job if you don't drop the micro-screws into the lower carriage area 58 zillion times.  Tomorrow, buy a magnet at a hardware store and learn how to magnetize my screwdrivers.  If I had a cuss jar, I could retire.

Or, it could be the...

[BoldJava]

Exhaust sensor which sits in the throat of the left gear assembly.  Of course no individual parts such as the exhaust sensor are replaceable so the whole gear assembly gets replaced.  Straight forward until I have to snap off some plastic electrical wire bundling harnesses. A quick call to Peter and he suggests using some wire to harness them down and keep them out of the gear.  Simple, but I hadn't seen that.  Done.  'Nother 30 minutes as we once again play "Drop the tiny screen into nowheresville and see how long it takes to find it."  Mercy.

The exhaust sensor (as I understand it) is on a closed loop back through the mother board, sending a signal to the heater.  This synchronizes with a temperature band (7*) to turn the heat on and off. I bet 10 to one this is the bad part but just in case...

[BoldJava]

let's replace the power board (my term).  This sits (12 o'ocock) separate and apart from the mother board -- the AC and heater leads are running into it.  Two screws hold it down.  Pay attention to the order of the leads running into it, even if you have to label them.  I gently used pliers with the AC lead as it didn't want to come off.  Put leads back on, seating the board and remount with the two screws.

Make sure you have all the wires out of the way of the gear assemblies.  Look again, using wire if needed to bundle them down and away from the moving gears as the gears are not sealed or encased.

Reassemble the unit, all 90 more micro screws.  'Bout that time, Czarina walks in the back door. I have my glasses off with my nose -- about three inches from the carriage trying to see, classical music blaring, and she says, "You look like Pinnochio's creator, Geppetto, sitting there."  I worked up the biggest stink eye I could and then laughed.

OK, time for the trial.  121 volts at the wall.  Plug it in, start the stop watch, and set it at 482.  It makes it up and past 445, climbing for the 460 where it also has a tendency to konk out.  462 and climbing, all the way to 482 in 5:35.  Bingo.  Victory.  Houston, we have a roaster.

Tim Skaling is a gem.  I ordered the fan over the net -- he sent me an email, remembering our discussion.  Said he tossed in the left gear assembly and the power board.  Paid $15 for the fan.  Bet he doesn't even charge me for the other parts.



B|Java