Author Topic: Thermocouples  (Read 1222 times)

Offline sea330

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Thermocouples
« on: January 19, 2014, 11:44:15 AM »
On my way home from a doctor’s appointment I stopped at a garage sale and found a thermocouple welder cheap, kind of old so I replaced the capacitors works perfect. Made up a couple for myself very happy with TC junction, nice weld.  So? If anybody on GCBC needs one, I can fix you up. Had to post this, been so unhappy with made in china TCs and Omega TCs are kinda expensive. Not going into business making TCs Just for us on GCBC.
Rich

milowebailey

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Re: Thermocouples
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2014, 01:22:06 PM »
Rich

That is awesome!!!  I might take you up on it sometime should i ever need a replacement!

Offline Ascholten

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Re: Thermocouples
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2014, 07:44:32 PM »
Is it a spot welder?   I always thought you really just had to twist the ends together and voila, a TC junction.  Granted you would want protection in harsh environments but anyways,  good find, those things are not cheap at all.

Yes the cap's do wear out on them, they take the worst beating out of pretty much all of the machine because of the high amps during the discharge.  The tips on them are pretty common items should you need to replace them as well.

Aaron
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Offline sea330

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Re: Thermocouples
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2014, 08:10:32 AM »
Yes the carbon tip needs to be replaced, looking for one on ebay. Cleaned it up seems to work good. welded up a couple 20 ga K TCs, fairly nice bead at the junction. I don't think we need ISO9000 certified TCs.

jano

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Re: Thermocouples
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2014, 09:00:40 AM »
Oooooooooooooooooooooo.  One of my projects for 2014 is to take apart my combo IR thermometer which has a k-type probulator attached.  The probe is slow to respond, I want to replace it with a faster one, so it can match a thermapen.  Posting here so I can find this later when I'm ready :)

Offline rarebear

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Re: Thermocouples
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2014, 06:20:32 PM »
Can you made them so they read higher or lower?
I have found if you have a short probe in the beans you get low readings..
Is there some way to make them read higher by about 10º

My right angle bent probe I use now reads about 5º low for 1C
When I was using a 1" long straight probe it read 10º to 15º low
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Offline Ascholten

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Re: Thermocouples
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2014, 01:10:17 PM »
You can't really make them read higher, unless you 'calibrate'  or perhaps I should say offset the readout part of it.

You can make them read lower by using a bigger heat sink on the end, moving them away from the process a bit etc... or again, offsetting the readout part of it.  The heat sink would just make them respond slower really.

Moving them is not really making them read lower, as, they are reading the temp where they are placed, but being away from the process a bit, the temp could be lower.

Aaron
As I have grown older, I have learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everybody off is a piece of cake!

ecc

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Re: Thermocouples
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2014, 06:52:29 PM »
Right, the thermocouple reading is directly related to the materials composition. Good meters and well built thermocouples are essentially self-calibrating, until they begin to fail.

That being said ...


(WARNING: This started off nicely, but ends up in huge windbag mode.  I tried to edit it, but it sounds worse now.)


There are a lot of ways to mess up the accuracy, positioning is probably the easiest.  Very few things are at the exact same temperature in more than one spot, and when you heat things quickly these differences get larger.  At best you are getting an average, over a relatively large sampling period.  Thermocouple reaction time is a function of the initial temp difference and the mass of the section of the wire with the temperature differential, not just the bead. (and reaction time isn't everything, anyway)

To restate that, the voltages are not generated at the actual bead you made, but rather along the section that has temperature differential.   Make sure that most of the differential occurs in a part of the TC wire you are expecting it to.  Metal sheathings can also distribute the gradient over a larger section of wire.  Generally, longer gradients make for more accurate readings, since the wire impurities (and slight cross section differences) get averaged out better.  These things aren't very intuitive, but leaving a good length of the metal tip out on those nice commercial tc's can give you a much better reading rather than pushing it in up to the hilt and hoping for good lead wire composition.

If you have longish leads back to the meter, and don't have the insulated wires twisted, you could also be an antenna picking up stray signals from almost anything electrical operating nearby.  Seebeck_coefficient voltages are really small, under 50 microvolts (0.00005v) per degree C. 

Unprotected bead type TC are very susceptible to corrosion, and the relatively small wire surface area will be quickly coated with oils, and tend to move around/vibrate quite a bit, eventually damaging the wires.


« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 06:55:46 PM by ecc »